Fourth of July Open Thread


‘Murica (AP Photo/Rich Schultz)

Hooray America!, but boo whoever decided it was a good idea to make the Fourth of July a Wednesday this year. Seriously, I hate these mid-week holidays. You barely get to enjoy ‘em and it almost feels like a waste to burn two vacation days between the holiday and the weekend. Enough complaining, time to enjoy the evening.

Anyway, here is tonight’s open thread. The Rangers and White Sox (Feldman vs. Axelrod) will air on ESPN tonight, but feel free to talk about whatever you want here. Have at it.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Brian S. says:

    We should play Wise, Granderson, and McDonald in the outfield this weekend to make all the Red Sox fans super angry.

  2. Matt says:

    I love America as much as the next guy but that Trenton uniform Jeter is wearing is god awful. Looks like something Hacksaw Jim Duggan from the old WWF would have wore in the 80′s

  3. Greg says:

    Another name that I thought of for replacing Martin would be Ryan Doumit from the Twins.

  4. 28 this year says:

    Good day today. Phelps should be sent down and he won’t be necessary for at least 12 days or so which is perfect. Who do you think the Yankees call up for the doubleheader since the new CBA allows for a 26 man roster on double header days? You think Warren gets the call up as an extra pitcher since they need an extra pitcher more than an extra position player since they would already have a 5 man bench with McDonald?

  5. Brian S. says:

    On pace for a 98 win season. I think that would win the division easily.

  6. Greg says:

    I never knew that there was a verb that means “to meatloaf”/

    From Joe Maddon’s twitter account

    Kyle is a big part of who we are and will continue to be. He just had a hard time today. Can’t be down. We just meatloafed the Yankees.

    • Kramerica Industries says:

      Two outta three.

    • Kevin says:

      No Maddon..the Yankees beat themselves more than the Rays did.

    • Countryclub says:

      And some Yankees fans wonder why other Yankees fans dislike Maddon.

      • OMG! Bagels! says:

        I like how when other teams beat the Yankees, they’re all like “We beat THE YANKEES.” and when they lose, it’s “What do you expect? They’re THE YANKEES.”

        And when I say I like it, I mean I do like it. It’s the most fearsome name in all of sports.

  7. Brian S. says:

    Jesus Montero injured today. The Yankees knew.

  8. Kramerica Industries says:

    Oh, silly Red Sox.

    Pushing Franklin Morales back to face the Yankees. And, in the meantime, allowing themselves to get swept by Oakland.

    Hey, I’m not complaining. Chance to knock those guys double digits back in the standings this weekend, if everything breaks right. Go forth!

    • Brian S. says:

      A-Rod and Jeter must be happy they get to face Morales, Doubront, and Lester this weekend.

    • Cuso says:

      My guess it was more like they didn’t want to push their luck with Cook facing the Yankees. Morales has a shot at pitching 6 innings. Cook has a shot of maybe getting 6 outs. That 81-pitch business might play in Safeco, but not at Fenway.

  9. Jonathan says:

    I’m looking forward to seeing how our trade needs evolve by the time it’s time to make a deal. When CC comes back if Hughes is still throwing mid 90s with those 2 nasty curves and Kuroda is the same I don’t think there’s any chance we’ll go after a top of the rotation starter but I could be wrong. Never can have enough top end pitching. Garza taking a step back makes him less ideal since I doubt the Cubs are lowering their price. And with the magic $189MM number trading for Greinke/Hamels and extending them wouldn’t work very well. Especially since our FO doesn’t think Greinke could handle NY (I believe he could but o well).

    I’m very torn on the $189MM threshold since we’ve worked so hard to get a second ace and now it seems there is a good chance 2 will be available to the highest bidder (aka us if we want) for just money but this plan makes it almost an impossibility. Most of me wants them to just say screw the threshold and re-sign Swish, get a C on the short term, extend Robbie and Grandy and sign Hamels since it’s not my money and we don’t know when the next time an ace will hit FA in their prime, but on the other hand that threshold would pretty much mean our FO is getting farther and farther away from the ARod/Soriano type contracts and more towards building from within and only paying top dollar for elite player. I’m just not sure the timing is realistic without giving up a ton of prospects for younger less expensive players. After all money has been and always will be our greatest asset. I just don’t see how we get under $189MM without lucking into a good/cheap OF and C and having Banuelos/Pineda turn into #2 or aces. We’re going to sign Robbie for $20MM AAV at the minimum and Jeter will pick up his option. Who knows. Without the $189MM talk I think most of us would pretty much expect to keep Swish and Martin if he can be good again, sign Hamels and extend Cano for certain and Grandy if he keeps doing what he has been doing for the last 2 years and a move to LF helps his defense. What are your guesses for the plan to get under $189MM?

    • TomH says:

      The “plan to get under 189MM” gives me existential nausea. The Yankees’ great advantage, as you say, is their dough. If they’re not going to get front line talent in, say, the Rays’ (or perhaps also the O’s’) manner by being doormats for a long time, Yankee-style free agency is very important for them.

      When paying draft picks or internationals begins being restricted in such a way as to affect (especially) the Yankees, and when luxury taxes or other penalties militate against high salaried players, then yes, and to use the cliche, you gotta build from within. I guess. But I don’t believe anyone who tells me there isn’t an anti-NYY element in these rules (with some other teams in the mix as well, e.g., Boston and Texas).

      The luxury rules, etc. will eventually take their toll on Yankee eminence unless the team begins resisting (with allies) some way. I think they will do this because they will recall–if only through the record books–attendance levels in the late 1960s.

      Perhaps we can say of those years that they were evidence of un-smart “building from within”–and the more catastrophic Steinbrenner interventions of the 80s–not the kind of thing our era’s Yankees will do.

      This reminds me of the “financial advisor” (ca. 30-35 years old) whose idea of the Depression was so vague (he was too “bright” to study mere economic history) that he assured his audience there will never be another: “We’re much smarter now.” Ha ha.

      Hal may be gung-ho about his 189MM now, but we’ll see when the effects of this MLB initiative in levelling begin to be felt.

      I always forget: where did Selig earn his bones? Some “small market” place wasn’t it?

      • Ted Nelson says:

        $189 million isn’t Hal’s plan. It is imposed by the league.

        You’re acting like their budget is going to be $50 million. They’re still going to be at the top of the league in payroll, and have a lot more flexibility to manuver under $189 mill than you let on.

        • Need Pitching (and maybe hitting too) says:

          It is Hal’s plan. They’ve been over the luxury tax threshold every year. Hal is choosing to try to change that because there are more incentives for doing so now, but it is still very much a choice.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            Why is he doing it? Because of the incentives put in place. You’d be nuts not to do it. It’s my choice not to rob a bank, but I don’t do so because of the incentive structure in place.

            • Need Pitching (and maybe hitting too) says:

              If the Yankees were under the threshold this year, they would save close to 60M (assuming they end up with about 220M in luxury tax payroll, they’d save about 32M in payroll and close to 18M in luxury tax). Wouldn’t he be nuts not to save 60M this year? Yet he chooses not to. Obviously the incentives will be slightly better going forward, but it is still a choice he’s making. He’s chosen to forgo huge savings in the past.

            • Jonathan says:

              I know it’s a lot of money they’d save if they get under the $189MM but really…I think they have more money than they could possibly spend. And if they lost it all they could sell the Yankees for BILLIONS. I have no problem lowering the payroll. I have a problem lowering the payroll at the expense of the on-field product. Everyone says, “How hard is it to win with a $189MM payroll?” but that’s extremely short sighted since they already have so much guaranteed money on the books. I would just hate to pass up on a guy like Cole Hamels to save some money and then spend the next several years searching for another ace and giving up huge prospects to do so when one could have been had for money alone.

            • Andy Pettitte's Fibula (formerly Manny's BanWagon) says:

              I wish you would rob a bank as long as they put you in a prison where you didn’t have access to the internet.

  10. your mom says:

    I was watching a little of the ChiSox-Rangers game and boy is Axelrod one ugly muthafucka.

    • Cuso says:

      Hahaha. I caught like 5 minutes of it and thought the EXACT SAME THING. I literally changed the channel when I saw the shape of his head.

  11. Rocky Road Redemption says:

    Over/under 100 wins for the Bombers? I’m thinking over.

    I’m feeling bold right now so I’m going to go with a high number and say 105 wins.

  12. JScott says:

    Watching the Rangers-White Sox as well. Adam Dunn has struck out 126 times thus far [this season, not today].

    I dunno, seems like a lot.

  13. Robinson Tilapia says:

    Somewhat of a gift win today but, when someone hands you a gift, you say “thank you” and ask no more questions.

    Star Wars: Episode IV appears to be on a constant loop on Spike TV tonight.

    Hopefully, Darnell McDonald brings plenty of journeyman veteran presents.

    • Pat D says:

      With commercials? Blech.

      I’ll just pop in the Blu Ray if I want to watch it.

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        Of course, but I just leave it in the background sometimes when it’s on TV.

        • Pat D says:

          I’ve got movies to clear off the DVR before I run out of space. After all, the DirecTV guy told my sister that if the DVR runs at less than 20% free space for too long, it’s more likely to fail.

          Which, to quote Lewis Black, tells me that the thing doesn’t work properly, then does it?

          I could also recite that movie, in all likelihood.

  14. Rocky Road Redemption says:

    I am so fucking pissed Zach Parise is in Minnesota.

    Just saying.

  15. jjyank says:

    Enjoy this, boys (and Erica and Betty)


  16. Robinson Tilapia says:

    Funny story, and I think MBW will especially like this:

    I went down to the NBA Store in Midtown today in order to finally buy a championship shirt. Store is, of course, covered in Heat stuff. All these tourists, though, are walking and asking crap like “what’s a good team? I want to buy my ________ something.” Staff would try to sell them on Knicks and Nets stuff. When that didn’t bite, they’d try to sell OKC stuff. I actually interrupted one of these sales pitches and asked why they don’t try to sell them a Heat shirt. The salesperson looked at me like I had just stabbed her puppy.

  17. Fin says:

    Can the Yankees keep playing Martin everyday? He looks like Ibanez in ST. I dont care how good of a catcher he is, hes about as a good of a hitter as a pitcher at this point.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Who currently on the roster could do better? It’s not great but, my god, the team is currently in first place. He’s certainly not killing them.

      • Monterowasdinero says:

        It really is amazing that with no Gardy, no stolen bases (essentially), no offense from Martin, no Mo, no Joba, no DRob for awhile, horrible risp success and a suboptimal ARod ….we still have a comfortable division lead.

        You know Suzyn….

    • OMG! Bagels! says:

      How can you not care how good a catcher he is? Maybe he’s sucking offensively but his defense and game-calling does count for something.

      • Fin says:

        It doesnt count enough to make up for him at the plate. No idea why everyone on this website is giving him a pass. I have heard every trade imaginable on this website, and no one mentions catchers. I realize there isnt an upgrade on the roster but before I went looking to trade for a pitcher, I would look for a catcher that could at least hit at a major league catcher level, and that bar isnt that high.

        • Need Pitching (and maybe hitting too) says:

          ” No idea why everyone on this website is giving him a pass.”

          seems like he gets criticized pretty frequently here

          “I have heard every trade imaginable on this website, and no one mentions catchers.”

          Unfortunately, finding an upgrade at starting C is probably unrealistic. There aren’t that many good catchers, and when teams do have them, they generally try to keep them. I’m sure everyone here would love an upgrade over Martin, but I’m not sure one is realistically available.

          • Fin says:

            I havent seen one person mention Ruiz, but people want to give up the farm for 2 months of Hammels. If the Yankees are going to give up talent and the Philies are going to dump players, you have to figure a 33 yr old catcher would be available. Thats just one guy off the top of my head. I have no idea what the catcher trade market is.

            • jjyank says:

              Okay, but Ruiz is having the best year of his entire career at 33 (so far). Do you really think the Phillies let him go for anything other than a king’s ransom? And do you really ting he can do this going forward?

            • Need Pitching (and maybe hitting too) says:

              I’ve seen Ruiz mentioned here a few times.
              I highly doubt he would be available. The Phillies may well give up on this season, but I doubt they go into full rebuilding mode with Halladay, Lee, Howard, Utley, Paplebon, and Rollins all still under contract. I would think they would be more likely to try to reload for next year, in which case it would make no sense for them to create a hole at catcher, especially since he has only a 5M team option for next season. If he is available, I would hope the Yankees would be very interested, but I seriously doubt he gets moved.

              • Fin says:

                Not sure I agree at all. He basically has a year left with the Philies after this year, his age 34 season. The Philies look to be without Hammels next year. Utley is a shadow of his former self. Victorino is a FA, whow knows what HOward has left. Its a big assumption that the Phils are just gona reload for next year. Its just as possible, they want to get alot of value in the trade market for a 33 yr old catcher having a career year. What the Yankees would have to pay and should they pay it, I have no idea. I dont know the value of a 33 yr old catcher with one year remaining.

                • Need Pitching (and maybe hitting too) says:

                  Anything’s possible. Like I said, if he’s available, I think the Yankees should definitely be interested (though I’d imagine the price might be too high). I just haven’t seen any indication the Phillies were looking to unload players, unless they were free agents after this season, and they seem to want players who can help soon in return, which seems to indicate they intend to try to remain competitive going forward. Entirely possible I’m reading their situation incorrectly.

          • jjyank says:

            My thoughts as well. No need more me to say much else, other than I agree with this.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          You must not be reading the comments. Literally every thread is filled with nonesensical comments about how to replace Martin either with guys who are worse than him or unatainable. This very thread suggests Doumit above. Never mind tht he can’t C and isn’t all that great a hitter either.

        • Cuso says:

          How about because the part that matters about catchers – working a pitching staff – isn’t something you just pick up at the trade deadline.

          Think about it. When was the last time you saw a major move for a catcher at the deadline? They have to learn 10-11 new pitchers on the fly?

          I remember when the Yanks tried to do that with Pudge. It didn’t work – AT ALL.

          He couldn’t even catch every day because he couldn’t get together with all the new pitchers rhythms and strengths. And that was a Hall-of-Fame catcher.

          With catchers, you roll with what’s in the organization since Spring Training. You might see Cervelli at some point, but that’s it.

      • Bubba says:

        Because the level of his offensive suckitude wipes out any positive contributions his defense and game calling might add. That being said, he’s the best we got and I don’t think the trade market will bring anything better.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Except that there are hardly any Cs around the league better offensively. And some of the ones who have been for half a season won’t be the next half a season. Good luck trading for one who is better at a reasonable price, then having him continue to be better.

          Cs in general are bad offensively. Posada jaded Yankee fans.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      His hitting is fine for a C. Not good, but about average. This meme that he’s rudiculously terrible has got to stop.

      • Bubba says:

        Teddy boy. Martin is 18th out of 29 for C’s with at least 150 PA this year based on wOBA. That’s below average. There is not much the Yankees can do about it but he still sucks.

  18. Fin says:

    You have seen me post enough. I’m not doom and gloom. What I’m saying is that Martin is the worst every day player on the team, and if I’m looking to make a trade at the deadline its for a serviceable major league catcher. Give me all the bs u want about framing pitches, Martin is no longer an every day catcher, but would be fine as back up. Hell I heard alot of people making fun of Mathis last year, and Martin is about the same level.

    Since the first month of a half of last year, Martin has been awful at the plate, and seemingly getting worse. I dont know how anyone can defend him tbh. If he was on the redsox, this sight would be making fun of him in every post. I’m sure the Yankees will be fine with him as the everyday catcher for the rest of the year, but if I’m looking to upgrade the team, thats where I would start.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      Martin is Babe Ruth compared to Mathis. He’s been awful, but not where close to Mathis awful.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      It is just factually wrong that he’s been that awful offensively. He has been bad, but not that bad for a C. It’s not that Martin is great, it’s that Cs generally can’t hit. .300 wOBA is pretty standard for a C. A hot week and he could be at a solid .310-.320 wOBA.

  19. DM says:

    I think Martin’s chance of staying for 2013 has actually increased with his slump (and Romine’s back). He might want to to sign a 1 year contract to bring his value back up — and I think the Yankees would be very interested in that, and for the same reasons they signed him after he was non-tendered.

    • Alfredo says:

      or also the yankees might want to sign Mike Nappoli knowing how much money is coming of the books next year.

      • DM says:

        I think Napoli will command more (money and years) based on his 2011 — and he’s less of a catcher. Despite being the current whipping boy, Martin actually fits here on a 1 year deal for next season. Both sides would be betting on a rebound; the Yankees could get a good value while Martin could enter free agency in 2014 with better prospects for a better, multi-year deal.

  20. Greg says:

    Other options that I have looked into.

    Brayan Pena from the Royals
    Kurt Suzuki from the A’s
    John Hester from the Angels
    John Jaso from the M’s

    • Need Pitching (and maybe hitting too) says:

      Brayan Pena – looking at his numbers, appears to be very Chris Stewart-ish

      Kurt Suzuki – has been worse than Martin this year
      John Hester – If he’s any good, why would the contending Angels trade him?
      John Jaso – Why is a team starved for offense trading one of their best hitters with 3+ years of team control left? (Also, he’s barely caught this year)

      • Greg says:

        I want to speak on Jaso first because he seems the better of all of them.

        M’s already have Montero and Olivo at catcher so they have no need for him there.

        So basically they are using him as a DH. We have plenty of DHs we can send them in his place. Branyan, Cust and Ibanez. Of course we would have to send a pitching prospect or 2 as well. If the Yankees believe Vidal Nuno will make it up here, keep him, if not trade him.

        • Need Pitching (and maybe hitting too) says:

          Maybe Jaso is possible, but I doubt it. Olivo is horrible, they can certainly still use Jaso. Jaso is a long term option with the M’s, I can’t imagine they’d be remotely interested in replacing him with Branyan, Cust, or Ibanez. Again, Seattle would be looking more for young good bats that they can control for multiple years, Jaso somewhat fills that need (semi-young at 28). The Yankees have nobody at the upper levels that could realistically replace that.

          • Greg says:

            Well, Ronnie Mustelier is about the same age and he has been itching to get up to the majors. Corban Joseph is there too, although I would be less inclined to give him up because he’s 23.

            Both are blocked in our organization by Cano.

            • Greg says:

              Correction Mustlelier is not blocked by Cano

            • Need Pitching (and maybe hitting too) says:

              Mustelier isn’t really a 2B. He’s not blocked at all by Cano. And wouldn’t Joseph be blocked by Ackley in Seattle?

              • Greg says:

                True but again, if they are keeping Jaso as primarily a DH, why wouldn’t they keep Corban or Ronnie there in the same role?

                • Need Pitching (and maybe hitting too) says:

                  Are either of those guys upgrades over Jaso though?
                  I would think if starved for offense Seattle were to trade a relatively young, relatively cost controlled proven major league hitter, they would want somebody who is likely to be at least as good or better in return, especially since a player who can catch at least a little bit would have more value over 2 players who’s defensive future is far from certain. I would think other teams would likely be able to offer something better than Joseph or Mustelier for Jaso. I could be wrong, though.

                  • Robinson Tilapia says:

                    Unless Seattle thought they were getting two pieces that can jump into the lineup right away, etc., and that was worth a catcher who’s never going to set the world on fire.

                    Mustelier’s 28 years old, I believe. I can’t imagine the trade value is big there.

                    If we’re going to take up every thread now talking about replacing Martin, and these are the names we’re bringing up, I don’t know what to say. None of this seems worth replacing Martin for the last three months of the season. A decision will have to be made in the offseason anyway.

              • Greg says:

                And I want to mention Pena. His numbers could be Stewart like except Pena has a little more power than Stewart. Plus Pena is a switch hitter, so he can take advantage of the short porch.

                Plus in baseball reference they post batters similar to the one that is being documented. The second batter on Pena’s list: John Jaso. Think about it

                • Need Pitching (and maybe hitting too) says:

                  He’s definitely better than Stewart, but not by much. He’s pretty much an empty average hitter, with few walks and little power. And he’s 30, so unlikely to offer much improvement.

                • Robinson Tilapia says:

                  Pena reminds me of Dioner Navarro, Ronnie Paulino, etc. Looks the part in every single way, but isn’t putting it together.

        • DM says:

          I’m sure Olivo will be bought out of his 2013 contract. For better or worse, I think the Mariners will use Jaso and Montero at catcher next year; although they might bring in a cheap, defense first guy as a 3rd catcher since the other two will never been known for their glove work.

          And cast-offs like Branyan and Cust arent trade bait for Jaso. Either one is more likely to be released or sold to Japan than traded for anything of real value.

          • Robinson Tilapia says:

            Someone suggested trading Branyan or Cust for Jaso? I must have skipped that over. Dear god.

            • Need Pitching (and maybe hitting too) says:

              Greg, but he at least proposed including a pitching prospect or two as well

              • Robinson Tilapia says:

                Guys like that aren’t trade bait. It’s exactly what DM said above. There’s no grade-C pitching prospect you can add to that to make it better.

                You could probably pair up some excess in the minors that could conceivably step in and play on the M’s which would get you a guy like Jaso. Maybe, as a deadline move, that gets you a better backup guy which pushes Martin and allows you to evaluate him as a starter for next year. Sure, there’s some merit to that. I’m coming around to it.

                • DM says:

                  Still doesn’t make sense to me from Seattle’s POV. Jaso is cheap and hits left-handed; Montero struggles against right-handed pitching; Olivo can be bought out for 2013.

            • DM says:

              One of them was to be offered as part of Greg’s package to acquire Jaso. The theory being that they would replace his contribution at DH.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        Yeah, it amazes me that people whine about Martin and then suggest trading for worse players.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      I’m sure Jack Z would love to hear from Greg.

  21. Tom says:

    Some guy named Mauro Gomez started at 3rd base for the Red Sox today.

    Why again did the Red Sox give Youkilis away? Should have at least kept him as a bench player.

    And as I type this Youkilis hits a game winning single for the White Sox. I know the Red Sox have future HOF’r Wil Middlebrooks, but I’m glad he’s gone.

  22. Alfredo says:

    talking about the 4th of July, what team would you guys like to see the USA put out there for the World Baseball Classic.

  23. Kramerica Industries says:

    Now that he’s in Chicago, I don’t mind Youk so much.

    • Pat D says:

      Harry Doyle sums up my thoughts.

      Taken from Major League 2:
      You know, I used to hate Parkman when he was with the A’s. It’s amazing what a new uniform will do for a guy.

      (Covers mic)

      He’s still a dick.

  24. Pat D says:

    God, Mitch Williams and John Smoltz are such idiotic fucking assholes.

  25. Robinson Tilapia says:

    What about if we just give Austin Romine the world’s biggest aspirin?

  26. Cuso says:

    I’m sitting here trying to figure out why acquiring a catcher at the trade deadline is even being debated here.

    You think you’re going to trade for a starting catcher that is going to learn all these pitchers for the rest of the season?

    Why? To plug in more offense in the #8 spot in the lineup?! Just be grateful that we’ve been able to keep Martin healthy. He’ll eventually get some knocks. So he won’t hit. 250 with 25 jacks – who cares?!

    Martin is the guy you want. And God forbid should he get hurt, Cervelli will be the starting catcher with Stewart catching 2 out of every 5-6 games.

    Stop being spoiled brats and expecting Posada offense while blindly disregarding what Jorge was defensively.

  27. Deep Thoughts says:

    No idea how old this is, but it sees that Mark Reynolds is disrespectful to Buck:


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