Sunday Night Open Thread
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At least Dickerson came to play … until he was lifted for a pinch-hitter. (Jeff Zelevansky/Getty)
The Yankees are very fortunate to still have a two-game lead in the standings right now. The run differential-busting Orioles outscored the Yankees 17-8 in the three games, holding them to just 15 hits in 27 offensive innings. The bullpen allowed five runs on 14 baserunners in nine innings in the three games, and that includes the great work by Boone Logan, David Robertson, and Rafael Soriano on Saturday. Just a miserable series by a team that has won just four of its last dozen games.
Anyway, here is your open thread for the night. The ESPN Sunday Night Game is a good one, the ChiSox at the Tigers (Sale vs. Verlander). I think there might be some college football on as well. Talk about that stuff or anything else here. Have at it.
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There’s nothing we can do but hope Alex, Curtis and Teixera return this week. And Andy returns later this month. Girardi had a chance to steal another game today and buy us more time but he fell asleep on the job. Today was a rare case where the manager lost the game, not the players.
What are you talking about? Phil Hughes got abused, as usual, and the team didn’t hit. Looks like the loss was most on Phail to me.
You haven’t actually watched Hughes since April, have you?
Girardi blew it Yesterday when he left Hughes in too long The Yanks are done!! It is time to clean out Girardi and Long,TAMPA!!What a shame to fall asleep at the switch!!!
Stick a fork in them….they are done!
Now we know how Red Sox fans felt last year.
Fried chicken anyone?
Yeah, because we have a 9 game lead now, and we’ve already blown it, right?
I am amazed at how many people are trying to blame all of this on Girardi. You take Pineda, Gardner, Mo out for the entire season, Pettitte for most of the season, A-Rod, Robertson, CC, and Teixeira out for large chunks of the season, Swisher for a small part, and put replacement level players in their place then this is what happens. Girardi can’t prevent these guys from being injured.
But I’ll tell you what Girardi can do. He can see what everyone else saw, a laboring pitcher struggling to get through 5 innings with 90 pitches thrown. Back out there for the 6th, 1st and 3rd no outs and who’s coming to the plate? The guy who hit a HR last AB. Why wasn’t anyone warming earlier? Why didn’t Girardi send Rothschild out to the mound to buy time? Buck had Ayala warming in anticpiation that Wolf would collapse. Buck outmanaged Girardi and that’s why we lost the series.
He was talking about the season. And we got dominated this series. Bad management actually WON the Yankees one game.
tex has missed about 10 games and cc 3 or 4 starts.. no need to exagerate the yankee injuries.
andruw jones stinks, ibanez is back to what he should have been(bad), cano stinks and I am serious. He has 71 rbi’s in the middle of the lineup, arod before he got hurt sucked. sure he is better then casey mcgehee but that is not saying much.
they have low 300 obp guys all over the lienup…they cannot score without hitting a homer.
the pen has 2 sure options. not having a 6th/7th inning guy has killed them.. I move phelps to that role now…………
joba, eppley, rapada, lowe stink. logan is league avg. but compared to the rest of the crew he looks great…..
i blame the offense and guys like cano,tex, and grandy and swisher. late 20′s early 30 players who can’t hit for avg. and cano a guy who cannot hit when it matters. cano’s hit in the 8th today is cano. a meaningless single thru the left side when the game is over….Cano is a overhyped good player but so far from a superstar it is staggering….
They’re still doing a whole lot better than your Mets.
Just curious if all the people blaming Girardi have seen our middle relief recently. It’s not like pulling Phil after 5 leaves us in great shape.
Actually, yes it would have. It would have left us with a 3-1 lead. Which then would have aloud him to play ticky tack with the bullpen as needed.
Would you rather have been 3-1 and needed someone from the pen, or 5-3 and needed runs from this offense? And don’t say oh we didn’t know the 6th inning was coming. Bullisht everyone knew that was coming.
I think both options suck, actually. And no, we DIDN’T know the 6th was coming, actually.
It’s the curse of Louise Meanwell.
very disapponted in this team. put em all on waivers and start over. get anyone off waivers. bunch of fat toads!!!
Ahh, Frank, the world got duller after you died.
phil hughes should be ashamed of himself every day he doesn t pitch a shutout. trade the little jerk. he is not an ace anymore.
I have recently started leaning heavily toward preferring that the Yankees keep Swisher and trade Granderson this off season. Any thoughts?
Agreed. Swisher needs to be kept. He’s too valuable in the 2 spot and as a backup to an ailing Mark Teixera. Curtis Granderson is an all or nothing hitter. He will be past his prime years for a center fielder and commanding a prime years contract that we can’t afford. Robbie Cano needs that money. Gardner can play center better and cheaper.
Why not just keep both for next year? Hard to see how trading Granderson improves the team.
Absolutely. It doesn’t improve the team unless Cashman’s got the goods on some other GM.
You honestly don’t believe that Granderson could net the Yankees a good young starting pitcher?
With one (not cheap) year on his contract? No way.
If the Yankees offered Granderson to the Mariners for James Paxton you think they would say no?
Yep. The Mariners aren’t contending next year, Granderson has little value to them.
Do you mean one thats in the majors or close to big league ready? The only teams that I can think of that would be interesting would be the Rangers and Braves.
You continually say “How does X move improve the team.”. Ok. How does getting under 189 improve the team? Your answer for that will apply here to.
How does getting under 189 improve the team?
It doesn’t unless they start spending more wisely, which I have a hard time seeing.
That’s an interesting thing to say. Only it’s not clear whether you think this is because it’s not doable in principle, by anyone, or not doable by this management.
Not doable in general. Spending on free agents is the least efficient way to spend in baseball period.
They can’t have both. It’s one or the either. I think Swisher is going to be vastly overpaid but he has been more consistent than Granderson who’s having a 2 WAR season.
Granderson might do something nice in a contract year.
Keep Dickerson. Trade Granderson.
Have no fear Guys, we still have the Un clutch Andrew Jones.
Bad day. I suspect that Jeter has entered a slump. On Aug. 20, he was hitting .326. Since then it’s been about .220. They can’t afford having him cool off with the way that so many of the others are hitting.
People like Ibanez and Jones are showing serious age now. Ibanez might well make a comeback before the season ends, but Andruw is showing signs of indifference as accompaniment to his post ASB futility.
If I were GM–oh for a genii!–I would run a few more risks with younger people this month than Cash seems willing to. The middle bullpen is on life support. Why NOT see what this kid, Montgomery, has to offer? Is he really going to be profoundly ego-bruised if he gets lighted up? Hell, Dickerson looked like he an example of adrenaline-in-action out there today.
The real downers: that CC may be less than his usual self (for whatever reason), that Kuroda may be cooling off, that ARod will need time the team doesn’t have to regain his stroke, ditto for Teixeira, ditto (if he returns)for Pettitte’s command, and that the AL has figured out how to pitch to Granderson.
It’s possible Ichiro will do memorable things this month, but we’ve probably seen all that he’s got left. What is it? about .285 b.a. for the Yanks? Not that many walks or stolen bases.
After today’s performance, if I had to bet, I’d bet against the Yankees making the post-season. They seem completely deflated and against Baltimore they looked like the old team they are.
Spot on. In regards to Ichiro, once again the question arises as to WTF we didn’t just bring up Dickerson. “He wasn’t on the 40 man blah, blah, blah,”
At this point, as you said, they are old. There is no way to rectify that right now due to them wanting to go 189 AND try to stay championship contenders, not just competitive.
The Yankees will always take your veteran over their potential internal option. The Ichiro trade was pointless — Gardner’s been out since April that was the best OF they could come up with? — and the Stewart deal was even worse.
Do you think DJ Mitchell would have made a nice BP option right now?
No, not really. I’d rather have him that Ichiro, whose only redeeming value is his ability to run down fly balls.
A pinch hitter wasn’t sent up for Dickerson. It was ANDREW JONES’ Why not send Stewart and Pearce up for Chavez and Ibanez if you’re going the righty-lefty theory? The only players doing anything were the ones from SWB. Dickerson, Thomas, and Wade. Warren only got to warm up. The Wizard Girardi is leading this years collapse. Anyone thinking AROD, Tex, Grandy, Pettite coming back will make a difference is living in Fantasyland.
1. the yankees should have been swept.
2. its a dam shame when you let mark reynolds beat you, twice no less
3. phil hughes is not a big game pitcher
4. why did girardi pinch hit for dickerson, who looked like he was ready to give some life to this team
5. Joe G is clueless
6. ibanez and jones are shot, they have nothing left in their tanks.
7. by this time next week the yankees will no longer be in first place.
8. thank god the football season is starting because this team is really getting hard to stomach
9. even if they make the post season, do you really belive they can go far
What did Girardi say when he was asked about his decisions today? Honsetly.
He said he didn’t want to bring in Eppley to face Reynolds and then have to bring in a lefty to face the next batter. Nonsense cos that’s exactly what he did when we were losing.
I put this one on Cashman and Girardi- for trading away Kontos and putting too much faith in Lowe and Chamberlain.
Yep. If they had Kontos, they would still have their 10 game lead.
facepalm
He said this game, stop being a smug ass, how about coming back with a well typed proper response, instead of a throwaway holier than thou attitude. Grow up.
Why does Girardi keep sending Joba out there??? He was an awful reliever before he got hurt in 11′ and is even worse now. A 97 mph flat FB is what it is. A FLAT FB!!! He is hurting the team everytime he pitches.
Lol are you shitting? George Kontos? L-O-L
Kontos has a low 2 ERA, mid 2 FIP.
The same reason he sends 17-hits-in-9-innings Derek Lowe out there I guess.
I’m surprised they didn’t just pull up as many arms as they could get for the Sept. roster. New kids often do well when teams are seeing them the first time. Can’t imagine why Lowe (finished) and Joba (needs time) are out there on the mound.
Classic thread so far. Keep ‘em coming!
I have no idea why Hughes fell off a cliff. It’s too bad it happened so quickly because he hung in for one batter too many.
Nice to see Cory Wade comport himself well.
At this point, in medium- to high-leverage situations, I’d rather see Joba out there fine-tuning, to see if he can straighten himself out, than Derek Lowe, who’s a barely acceptable innings eater in the best-case scenario.
You are blind if you think he just fell off a cliff. It was clear he was done after 5.
And I agree with the Lowe thing. I’d rather try Warren than Lowe right now.
I miss Mo.
I did not see the press conference after the game, but what was Girardi’s reasoning for leaving in a clearly gassed Hughes to face Reynolds again? I don’t see how anyone could be surprised by the outcome.
Girardi blathered something about having someone up but then Reynolds hit the home run and it was too late. They got outmanaged and outplayed the whole series. What do you get when you have an old team that doesn’t hit for avg, only two arms in the pen and a two man rotation? Answer: injuries, and a Sept collapse. The KFC and RWBs are on Joe tonight.
I know I’m liable to get flamed for this, but here goes. I’m pretty much cool with whatever happens the rest of the year. That includes the possibility of missing the playoffs.
I’ve reached the point where I’m just done living and dying with this team. I’ve been spoiled by seeing them win 5 World Series in my lifetime, which is more than most other fans of any team can say. My infuriation with them getting beaten by lesser teams in the playoffs really reached its breaking point last year. They were showing the game in my call center and I was muttering things to myself too loudly and got in trouble for it. Like very nearly fired. So I’m just not letting myself get to that stage again.
The difference this year is that if they make the playoffs they could lose to anybody and I don’t know if I’d be able to say they lost to an inferior team. There’s no really, really good team in the entire Major League this year. That’s why it’s still entirely possible for them to figure it out, go on a run and win it all again. I’ll be ecstatic if they do. But I’m not counting on it.
So I’m just going to observe what happens and deal with it all.
(Note: This attitude may have something to do with the Giants winning the Super Bowl and me still riding that high. Wonder how long into the football season that’ll last.)
Good for you. No sarcasm.
They don’t care about you. You shouldn’t care about them. It’s just a dumb game.
I don’t live and die with the games either. There was a time when I did. Now I watch them, hope for a win, and move on with my day/night regardless of the outcome.
It takes true gutlessness to let a division rival walk into your ballpark three separate times, and walk out with the series victory all three times.
Unbelievable.
Tomorrows line up
Jeter ss
Swisher 1b
Cano 2b
Arod dh
Chaves 3b
Dickerson rf
Ibanez lf
Ichiro cf
Now lets see what joe does.
Forgot cervelli 9 c
If Lowe pitches any significant ining the rest of the year I will explode.
I turned off my TV when the Yankee outfield was Ibanez Ichiro and Jones.Or as I say old,older and oldest……….
Was at the game today. $30 for an Ichiro t-shirt? absolutely not.
Disgusted.
The Yanks have one double-digit hit game since August 20. Two since August 16.
Oh jeebus, the Braves won? On a Chipper walk-off? Looks like I shouldn’t have switched that one off.
Papelblown will be Papelblown.
Jesus Montero owns Jared Weaver.
So Arod in the lineup tommorrow?
I’d rather see him actually show something in a rehab assignment first. I’m not expecting much from him near term. Hopefully he isn’t a black hole.
I’d still rather see him than Pearce/Jones/Ibanez at DH.
Problem is, those guys will probably still play even with ARod in the lineup (maybe no Pearce).
IJonesnez shouldn’t see another at-bat the rest of the season.
I would love that, but they will. Arod coming back will probably cost Nunez/Dickerson more playing time than it will cost Jones or Ibanez.
He has a better chance of running into one than any of those guys, no doubt. But, he tends to struggle off long injuries and his mass of outs will come right in the middle of the order where the other guys’ outs won’t (or at least shouldn’t). That’s a big part of the issue.
I agree that we shouldn’t expect too much in the short term, but his mere presence may provide some emotional lift; and, after all, other teams will worry about him more than they’re going to worry about cleanup-ing Russell Martin and that Pearce fella. They can’t be sure that this won’t be the at-bat where he finds his stroke.
Also, we don’t really know what he was trying to do in Florida in those games. Hit a home run or extra base hit? just make contact? just see if there was any pain from serious swings (whether or not they made contact)?
We got our hopes up too much hearing reports about a Blazing Joba down in Rehabland and look what happened.
What the Yankees need (among so many other things) are lights-out performances from CC and Kuroda.
There isn’t any excuse for them not to deliver shutdown performances. The Trop is a pitchers park and the Rays only have three good hitters.
That’s two more than the Yankees have right now.
Well I count Jeter, Swisher, and Cano as good hitters.
Really, Mike? Jeter, Swisher, and Cano?
I know you’re not happy about this either but don’t lose your head too.
Once again,Montero was hitting Weaver. Jack Z is laughing his butt off on conning Cashman again.
I like how people write off Montero when our side of the deal has fucking done nothing but drink alcohol and get fat.
Corban Joseph has a mid .900 OPS against RHP in AAA this season. Just sayinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Who cares? So did Steve Pearce.
CoJo has a future. He’s 23.
I don’t know how they are going to do it, but this off season Cashman is going to have to overturn half this roster and find a way to get younger and more athletic, because right now this team is looking like a bunch of old stiffs.
Updated stats on the Yankees probability of winning the division, wild card, and the chance that they make the playoffs either way are listed below.
Division- 68.9%
Wild Card- 19.8 %
Playoffs- 88.7%
For comparisons sake I will list the same stats that we had on July 27th.
Division- 90.1%
Wild Card- 5.4%
Playoffs- 95.4%
http://www.coolstandings.com/b.....2&i=1
Yep. Not great, but still in decent shape. The problem is that this assumes that each team will continue to perform as they have in the past, and the Yanks are definitely debilitated these days due to injuries. But they’re getting some people back, so hopefully these numbers aren’t too far off.
The website takes many things into consideration while considering these statistics not only their past success.
FAQ here:
http://www.coolstandings.com/faq.asp?sn=2012
I may be the last man in America who thinks the Yankees will win the division.
I still think they will, but I’m much less confident in that prediction now.
Brothers! I am not alone!
I have a feeling that if we relinquish the lead we won’t get it back.
Well they shouldn’t relinquish the lead then.
I vote for this plan.
Meh, even then I wouldn’t necessarily believe that. If we relinquish the lead now but get healthy and start playing well again it’s quite possible we could regain it.
But I like DT’s answer more.
For objectivity purposes I will also include former Baseball Prospectus statistician Clay Davenport’s probability statistics updated today.
Division- 88.39195
Wild Card- 8.65505
Playoffs- 97.04700
Also Davenport’s stats include injuries as stated on the website:
“Expected winning percentages (EWP) is being driven entirely by the projections of player performance on our depth charts. The performances of every player on a team are combined to derive total team runs scored and allowed, which are averaged and normalized on a league basis, and used to calculate a won/lost record. The disadvantage of this approach is that the team’s rating is entirely based on a projection of player performance. The advantage is that it can immediately respond to changes in the team’s lineup, due to injury or trade. However, we still allow for uncertainty in the EWP by sampling a normal distribution centered on the EWP for each “seasonal” run. To simulate the normal 4% home-field advantage, the home team gets a .020 point bonus, while the visitors take a 0.020 penalty. The likelihood of winning each game is determined by the log5 method.”
Love these sites!
Girardi should have taken Hughes out when he was clearly starting to lose it. He did it with phelps last game, not sure why he didn’t do it to Hughes this game. I mean we have a homerun prone pitcher who lost it versus a guy know for hitting homeruns. Eppley isn’t great but his 62% ground ball rate was way better for that situation. And instead trying to keep the game close, he decides to mix and match anyways with out worst bullpen pieces.
I want A-Rod to hit a HR on the first pitch, like he did when he arrived in 09′. That one turned the season around. Now let’s do it again.
Unrelated: I just noticed Toy Story 3 coming on and had to change it because I’m not interested in a sad movie right now.
NO SHAME.
how many kids have been traumatized by that movie? that terrifying scene where they almost burn to death is worse than a thousand Bambis
Well hey, at least they’re saved.
It’s actually a really great movie, just sad.
But if I ever get kids they’re not watching it until ten at minimum. Might hold off until 11 or 12. That shit could be traumatizing.
I love watching Axisa crumble and become everything he mocks.
Why did n’t girardi pinch hit Nunez instead of jones for Dickerson? Jones was asked to hit against only Leftys this seasoned and with that advantage is hitting only200 and 136 since the all star break. He has never gotten a big hit in 2 years to ever win a game. He is the antithesis of those great yankees like o’niel and bros ious and even Damon. And I luv when crashman tries to explain why the Yankees are paying the pirates 13 million dollars for Aj Burnett to win 20 games by saying well, we saved 3 million so we could sign andruw jones. If George were alive he would be pissed at this team. His sons don’t have the same desire to win.
AJ was one of the worst starters in baseball the past two years. The Yankees had better options. He needed to go.
As the decline of this team continues, the issue of the ownership will become more prominent. Just who are they when it comes to Yankee tradition and success? More in the vein of Col. Jake and ol George or more CBS-ish.
Girardi is asleep at the switch.Our Yanks are done.TAMPA,IT IS TIME TO CLEAN HOUSE!!