Yankees give away game Ricky Romero tried to give away first, fall back into tie atop AL East

Saturday Night Open Thread
Update: Nix out 10-14 days with hip flexor strain

Source: FanGraphs

This was, without a doubt, the most pathetically well-earned loss of the season. This one should have been in the bag by about the third inning, but instead it’s the second miserable loss of the road trip. Going 3-3 in six games against the Twins (66-92) and Blue Jays (70-88) is a great way to make sure the division race goes down to the wire. Let’s recap this disaster…

  • Early Runs: Believe it or not, the Yankees actually had a lead and things looked pretty positive early on. Ricky Romero and his near-6.00 ERA loaded the bases (single, single, walk) in the first inning with no outs, and the Yankees converted that into two runs thanks to sacrifice flies from Robinson Cano and Curtis Granderson. Andruw Jones struck out to end the inning with a man on second, but things were certainly looking up.
  • Stretched Out: Andy Pettitte stretched his pitch count up to 94 in his third start off the DL, giving the team 5.2 innings of three-run ball. The immortal Rajai Davis took him deep in the first and plated another run with an infield single in the fifth. The third run was an inherited runner that Joba Chamberlain allowed to scored in the sixth. Pettitte allowed five hits (one double, one homer), a number of hard hit balls that found gloves, and three walks against four strikeouts. He wasn’t great, but the loss was hardly on him.
  • Blown Chances: Ten runners left on-base and 2-for-11 with runners in scoring position. Those two hits didn’t score runs either — both were Nick Swisher singles hit too hard and right at defenders, preventing the runners from taking the extra-base. Eight of the first 13 Yankees reached base overall, the leadoff man got on-base in six of the first seven innings, and yet only two runs scored. They had the bases loaded with no outs in the first (two runs, hooray!), a man on second with no outs in the second, bases loaded with no outs in the third, a man on first and no outs in the fourth, first and second with no outs in the fifth, a man on first and no outs in the seventh, a man on first with one out in the eighth, and a man on first with one out in the ninth. Just a hilariously inept offensive showing.
  • Umps & Girardi: The umpires had a terrible game but that’s no surprise. The strike zone was ridiculous and Brett Gardner was called out stealing second in the eighth even though he was clearly safe. That’s just par for the course, I suppose. Joe Girardi ran through his usual bag of odd managerial tricks, including pulling Eduardo Nunez for defense in a tie game (and losing the DH) and using Cody Eppley and Boone Logan (against the middle of the order) in the eighth inning of a one-run game before going to David Robertson to clean up the mess (against the bottom of the order). These are the five most important games of the season and he’s still trying to rest the regulars by stealing innings from inferior players. Didn’t they go to great lengths to rest these guys all summer so they wouldn’t have to rest them in precisely these games?
  • Leftovers: Swisher and Alex Rodriguez teamed up for a nice play to nab Yan Gomes too far off third base on Adeiny Hechavarria’s go-ahead double in the sixth … Granderson made two great catches to save runs, first coming in on a shallow Brett Lawrie fly ball in the fifth before running down a Jeff Mathis line drive on the warning track in the sixth. Both runs eventually came around to score, but not because of Curtis … Ichiro Suzuki (three), Swisher (two), and Robinson Cano (two) all had multiple hits while A-Rod drew a pair of walks … Ichiro got picked off first in the seventh, which is pretty terrible.

MLB.com has the box score and video highlights while ESPN has the updated standings. The Orioles predictably beat the Red Sox, so the magic number remains five and there is a tie atop the AL East. The Yankees played themselves into a position where they need some serious help from the Rays early next week. Bravo. Good job. The Angels and Rangers were rained out, so the magic number to clinch a postseason berth remains two. Those two clubs will play a doubleheader on Sunday. Anyway, Phil Hughes gets the ball against Henderson Alvarez in the final road game of the regular season on Sunday afternoon.

Saturday Night Open Thread
Update: Nix out 10-14 days with hip flexor strain
  • https://twitter.com/KramerIndustry Kramerica Industries

    I like how this went up about ten seconds after the Orioles won.

    That deserves a legit bravo.

  • DERP

    I think walloped is too strong a word for a one run game, but whatevs.

    Looking forward to playing the Red Sox next week.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Actually, I wrote that when it was still 3-0 Orioles because I figured they would keep scoring. I’ll change it.

  • JohnnyC

    Can’t be too well-rested for those October rounds of golf. Fairways are so pretty in Indian Summer.

  • BigBlueAL

    Tampa could be eliminated from playoff contention by tomorrow night making their 3 games vs Baltimore meaningless for them. Have to hope for a Tampa win and Oakland loss tomorrow.

    Looking more and more likely that the Yankees will be playing on Thursday and/or Friday next week. Sigh.

  • Zack

    Make no mistake..if we lose the division,Yanks will have no one but themselves to blame.
    I don’t think the Yankees will make it far in the playoffs but I also think the O’s cinderalla story will end in the ALDS. You aren’t going to be facing homerun pitchers there.

    • JohnnyC

      The Angels slugged their way to a World Championship in 2002. It’s a badly kept secret that the only ring Sciosia won was achieved not with small ball but with 24 post-season home runs.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        You also don’t win the World Series when Edgar Renteria hits homers off a guy like Cliff Lee. That will never happen.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Also, it’s alarming how many people think you can’t win by hitting homers off “good pitching” in the playoffs, so you need to string together three or four hits instead. Logic fail.

  • The Moral Majority is Neither

    This team should be called seven days – because its weak!

  • Joe F

    Say we get the WC game and we win. Do we face Texas?


    • DT

      They beat Texas the last time we faced them in the regular season.

      • Joe F

        Our pitching is mediocre right now combined with inconsistent bats.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          Fortunately, that’s pretty much true of Texas also.

          • Joe F

            I’m still worried. I’m kinda irrational during times like these so don’t mind me.

            • Need Pitching & Hitting

              I’m worried too. They can lose to anybody. But I don’t see any great AL team so I think they have a legit shot to beat anybody as well.

            • DT

              The thing with AL teams is that they are all heavily flawed. We’re closer to Texas than people think.Our pitching staff is technically better than theirs. Offensively they have better but not by much. Their hitters are as streaky as ours.

    • jesse

      Most likely, yes. But at least the first two would be at Yankee Stadium.

      • Joe F


        • jesse

          You asked if the Yankees would play Texas if they win the Wild Card game, which they do. If this were to happen, the first two games of the ALDS would be played at Yankee Stadium since the LDS’ are a 2-3 format.

          • jesse

            *which they would

            • Joe F

              2-3 now? WHAT?!

  • flamingo

    Not getting all the pessimism – we’re all but a lock to make the playoffs, we’ve got a great chance to win a WC game if we’re forced to play one – and, much as we acknowledge every team’s strengths, they’re all acknowledging the Yankees’ strengths. News flash: this is a good Yankees team. Yup, ravaged by injuries, and yup, lost a few tough games – but so has every team.

    • Randy

      Agreed. The mood shifts on a day to day basis is a bit much. I still believe they will win the division. They’re just making it tougher than need be, I have faith in them.

  • forensic

    I can’t believe this team has me so aggravated that I’ve actually contemplated whether it’d really be that bad a thing to miss the playoffs because at least then there’s a little bit of a chance of getting some new on-field and front office management.

    Never thought I’d rationalize something like that but they’re so damn frustrating to watch.

    • thenamestsam


    • Andruw’s Smile


  • Dan in Athens

    If Tampa is eliminated, they will be conservative and bench everyone of value. Bobby V will play each of the last 3 games like it is the 7th game of the World Series under the delusional belief that f’n N could save his job.

  • Effthisnoise

    The o’s find ways to win, the yanks find ways to lose. Bottom line is, it’s a play in game for the yanks, now it’s about making sure its at home

    • TomH

      This is a way of saying that the O’s are the better team. It’s about time we all come to this conclusion rather than pissing around with rationalizations as to why the Yankees are “really” better.

  • Joe F

    So Wednesday is going to mean something when I go. Great. And my Wild Card tickets are in jeopardy.

  • mrdbag

    Any chance of getting billy beane as gm

    • JohnnyC

      Don’t expect Cashman to be worried. He’s the teflon don of baseball now. He can just say Hal tied his hands with the budget. Of course, this doesn’t explain half of his moves or lack thereof this season.

      • DC

        What moves was he supposed to make this season?

        • Steve

          A bullpen arm would have been nice.

  • Tom

    I know the Girardi bashing is growing tiresome for some… but can he stop fucking trying to bunt in the the 2nd inning? With a lead?

    Can anyone just show Girardi a run expectancy chart, smack him in the head and say when you have a lead (or even when you don’t have a lead) you don’t give away outs early and minimize the chance at a big inning. Especially against shitty pitchers and with guys on base (Nunez) who can steal. There are ways beyond just handing the other team an out that you can move runners around the bases.

    This is the second game in a row he had someone bunting in the 2nd inning with a lead. That’s not small ball, it’s small brain ball.

    You also don’t have someone with 40 HR’s bunting… with a 3-1 lead In the 6th inning! Tie game (or within a run in the 8th or 9th) I get it… 6th inning with a 2 run lead is borderline batshit crazy. I don’t know if he is just feeling the pressure or is just trying to force small ball because HR’s are evil, but he has to know these are low probability moves which actually lower the chances of winning, no?

    • JohnnyC

      He’s feeling the pressure.

    • TomH

      In addition to JohnnyC’s remark re pressure, such a weird move suggests he doesn’t trust his hitters any more, doesn’t think they’ll get key hits by swinging the bat.

  • Dan in Athens

    And is there any reliever with a worse inherited runner percentage than the fat cocksucker? Joba cannot get his six years fast enough and get the hell out of here.

    You keep hearing that the Yankees ruined him, but the truth is a small sample size overshadowed the fact that he sucks.

    • JohnnyC

      Of course they ruined him. He had a total of 88 innings in the minors before he was promoted. As a starter not a reliever. It was Cashman’s desperate solution to the Torre bullpen-killer problem. By comparison, Matt Moore threw almost 500 innings in the minors before being promoted.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      The Yankees just made the plan with Joba up as they went, of course they contributed in a big way to him becoming the pitcher he is right now. Foolish to think otherwise. They wasted the best pitching prospect they’ve had in years because they were afraid of failure.

      • Dan in Athens


        I respect you, but I also know how little Joba cares about his responsibilites. DUI, check. Out of shape at spring training, check. Out of wedlock kid, check. Ignored by major college programs because of his immaturity, check.

        55 percent. He has allowed 55 percent of inherited runners to score, despite the stuff he has.

        He never put in the work and is an irresponsible ass, and that is the reason his career never matched the arm at any level.

        The only person Joba has to blame is Joba. What a fucking waste. As I said, cannot be gone sone enough.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Out of wedlock kid, check.

          What in the world does that have to do with anything?

          Ignored by major college programs because of his immaturity, check.

          Except he went to Nebraska.

          55 percent. He has allowed 55 percent of inherited runners to score, despite the stuff he has.

          He has, this year. Career rate is 31%. David Robertson, who people nicknamed Houdini because of his knack for pitching out of jams, is 32% career.

          …that is the reason his career never matched the arm at any level.

          Completely false.

          No one is absolving Joba, but to ignore the part the Yankees played just tells me you personally don’t like the guy, like dalelama and A-Rod or Mick taylor of Andruw Jones.

          • Dan in Athens

            First, since that question is asked by every pro team during interviews, it is relevant. It shows responsibility issues. Especially compunded by the DUI or coming to camp fat that you never referenced.

            And no, he did not get recruited by Nebraska. He was a transfer from Nebraska-Kerney (DII), after two years of semi-pro. because no one wanted him at first.

            He has less than a 7.0 WAR in his career, and half of it was in one year. Not matching his arm is false? BS.

            You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              You should listen to yourself.

              First, since that question is asked by every pro team during interviews, it is relevant. It shows responsibility issues.

              Zero idea what you’re talking about, and if it’s the kid thing, you’re wrong. Teams actually consider it a good thing when a player is a parent because because guess what? It shows responsibility. If you’ve following Joba at all, you know he’s not some deadbeat dad ignoring his child. But again, this is a completely ridiculous thing to bring up, beyond reasonable bounds.

              And no, he did not get recruited by Nebraska. He was a transfer from Nebraska-Kerney (DII), after two years of semi-pro.

              Okay, that’s great. And how did he end up at Nebraska? Oh right, they recruited him from Kerney.

              He has less than a 7.0 WAR in his career, and half of it was in one year. Not matching his arm is false? BS.

              Your original statement: “his career never matched the arm at any level.”

              What about his college and minor league performance? Conveniently ignoring that, I see. And for the record, that 6.4 WAR is the third highest in baseball history among 41st overall picks.

              • Dan in Athens

                You again failed to address the DUI or showing up for camp.

                A two year semi-pro, DII transfer doesn’t spell effort and responsibility. It shows a program in need of grabbing a player that doesn’t have pre-screens. He would not have even been eligible to tranfer into my undergrad or the university where I went to law school.

                Ah, the 6.4 WAR based on the 41st pick. We call this selective sampling and it is unrelated to his talent level. You are assuming his talent level is the 41st pick. I would tell you he was only the 41st pick becuase of his past behavior and his talent level was hgiher. And the write ups of that draft would back me, not you.

                You are dead wrong on this. Tons of talent, minimal work on his craft. That is how a potential top five pick slides to 41 and looks like a world beater some days and a scrub on others, based on the flip of a coin.

                • Dan in Athens

                  And his college ERAs? 5.23, 2.81, 3.93. Check the numbers.

                  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                    Using college ERA to back up your point?

                    • Dan in Athens

                      You mentioned his college performance, not me. Just answering you.

                  • Mike Stanley

                    ERA? Why don’t you use wins?

                    No college pitcher is judged on ERA. None. Stop it.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  I never denied the DUI and weight stuff, obviously. It happened.

                  The DII stuff is a waste of breath. Pettitte and Posada weren’t recruited by DI schools either. The only DI school to recruit Jeter was freaking Michigan. No one cares, it tells us nothing.

                  The point you seem to be missing here is that I am agreeing with you. You’re just trying to assign all of the blame to Joba and act like the team had no part of it, which is the stupidest thing imaginable.

                  • Dan in Athens

                    Pettite and Posasa both chose JC routes and were drafted out of HS (in the 24th and 22nd rounds). No draft and no school offers out of HS tells a different story. Joba didn’t got straight to DII, he sat 2 years. No one wanted him and it wasn’t because of the arm.

                    The team impact was small, but real, which I concede. However, he has consistently performed below talent level. Classic million dollar arm, ten cent head. There is a reason every team passed and they were right.

                    • Need Pitching & Hitting

                      ” There is a reason every team passed and they were right.”

                      Not really. There were several players drafted ahead of Joba that have accomplished much less than Joba.

            • JohnnyC

              He played in the National Baseball Congress which is essentially a summer league for amateur high school players. Other current MLB players who played in the NBC include Jacoby Ellsbury, Ian Kinsler, Curtis Granderson, Alex Gordon,Tim Lincecum…I could go on. It would come as a surprise to them to know they played semi-pro ball and that no one wanted them. Please read Wikipedia more carefully next time you want to make a ridiculously misinformed charge.

              • Dan in Athens


                They didn’t play two seasons there while not being drafted or playing for a college team. I’ve got an uncle who pitched in the Cape Cod league, it doesn’t give him the stature of the all-stars who passed through.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  This is completely contradicts your infatuation with his college career, bravo.

                  • Dan in Athens

                    Uh, this means my uncle was not great shakes despite filling out a roster spot ina league with real prospects. And again, you brought up his alleged college success, not me.

                    Mike, you are losing this argument badly. You’ve gone from attacking my analysis to trying to cover by “agreeing” with me to score a draw.

                    Million dollar arm, passed by colleges and then the pros. There was a reason and it is showing.

                    • Dan in Athens

                      Here’s the moral of the story.

                      Draft war room for a team with the 4th pick of the draft. Consensus best guy has slid to them because of off field issues

                      Scout one, “we’ve got to take this guy, he’s the best tlaent in the draft.”

                      Scout two, “no way, you’d have to build a jail cell for him before he even signed the contract.”

                      Scout one, “yeah that may be true, but you’d better build it in the end zone.”

                      There was no scout one saying this for Joba. He was a top five overall talent level pick that no one wnated to spend the money or time on. Yanks had plenty of both and got something for their efforts, despite stupid development, but nowhere near what he could have been if he was responsible and cared about his craft.

                    • JohnnyC

                      You’re entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. The more you post the more you reveal about your lack of reading comprehension. The 2 years he played in the NBC, he was a student first at Nebraska-Kearney (2004)and then at Nebraska-Lincoln (2005). There was no 2 year period where he wasn’t in school.

              • Dan in Athens

                So your argument about being in school and not playing in 2004 and 2005 again shows no one offered him an scholarship or even a walk on spot on team? How does this help your argument?

                • Mike Stanley

                  You’re frigging stupid.

                  Mike isn’t losing the argument. He’s boxing your ears in with your own contradictions. You’re judging how hard the guy works when you have, literally NO idea how hard he works. None, nada, zero, zilch. Miguel Cabrera has had DUI troubles. Think he isn’t committed to his craft because of it?

                  Take your dumb college stats and selective reasoning and shove it right up your ass.


                  A Kid Born Out Of Wedlock Who Had A Loving Parent Proving That This Is A Meaningless, Pedantic, Stupid Argument, You Dumb Southern Hick

                  • Yankee in CT

                    Great signature.

                  • Dan in Athens

                    “Mike isn’t losing the argument. He’s boxing your ears in with your own contradictions. You’re judging how hard the guy works when you have, literally NO idea how hard he works. None, nada, zero, zilch. Miguel Cabrera has had DUI troubles. Think he isn’t committed to his craft because of it?”

                    No, and that was proven when he got busted for domestic violence and blew a .26 the day before the one game in or out with the Twins in 2009.

                    It must suck to think you are with 90 plus percent and make an invalid argument, but ends up that it is stuffed upyour own ass

                • Craigory

                  You’re so ridiculously delusional it’s scary.

                  I won’t bother trying to argue stats with you because you’ll dismiss them as selective and selectively present your own in place, but your responsibility claim is down right egregious.

                  Tell me would you have passed up drafting Miguel Cabrera or Josh Hamilton, simply on the basis that each have multiple cases of substance abuse/addictions? Those guys seem to be alright on the field despite their issues, which are far more abundant than Joba’s ONE dui.

                  Everyone is human and some people have their problems maginified, especially in New York. I’m not saying his performance of late has been great, but don’t write Joba off for one DUI or a kid out of wedlock. Using your logic Cabrera and Hamilton should totally suck, but that’s not really the case. Get real dude.

                  • Dan in Athens

                    Love the dumb, southern hick and addiction claims.

                    I have an undergradute degree from William and Mary. A law degree, with honors, from Wake Forest. I have retired from the practice of law and am getting my PhD from the Univeristy of Georgia, with my minor being in methodology.

                    My father is also an alcoholic, 23 years sober.

                    I’m happy that you are a happy born out of wedlock kid. I’m sorry to remind you that many such children are not. This thread had nothing to do with Joba’s birth, but his actions in having a kid and not being married. So Mike Stanley,you wrote you had one loving parent. Are you proud of the other who you didn’t mention?

                    And no I’d never draft Miggy or Josh Hamilton. They f’d their orginal teams.

                    Josh Hamilton you proves my point. Tampa drafted him, paid him and used the pick and he did nothing thing for them.

                    Ah Southern, meaning stupid to most of you. The Civil War is over and bright northeast kids come down here for a real education

                    • Dan in Athens

                      It must suck being owned by “Dumb Southern Hick” has multiple degrees from top tier schools located in the allegedly stupid South.

                      Oh, born in Rhode Island. One of 37 grandkids on one side, one of 23 on the other. Moved to Virginia at a young age. 3 of the 14 on my dad’s side and 4 of the six on my mon’s graduated high school.

                      Tell me what a dumb southern hick I am again.

                    • Dan in Athens

                      It must suck being owned by “Dumb Southern Hick” has multiple degrees from top tier schools located in the allegedly stupid South.

                      Oh, born in Rhode Island. One of 37 grandkids on one side, one of 23 on the other. Moved to Virginia at a young age. 3 of the 14 on my dad’s side and 4 of the six on my mon’s graduated high school.

                      Tell me what a dumb southern hick I am again.

                    • forensic

                      I love when people start listing their resumes on here, like it has anything what so ever to do with baseball knowledge or opinions.

                      It’s pitiful where this whole group of comments went.

                    • Need Pitching & Hitting

                      “And no I’d never draft Miggy or Josh Hamilton. They f’d their orginal teams.”

                      How did Miggy f his original team? 17.1 bWAR in 4.5 seasons is fucking the team? And for only about $11M total?

                      I wish players would fuck the Yankees like that.

                    • Dan in Athens

                      I am on the losing side. Some one posted his credentials, and he has been kicking my side’s ass. I will attack him without any thought to analysisoved the or the fact that every big four professional team asks cetain questions.

                      Love the Hamilton and Cabrera who were studs that fucked their original teams while abusing.


                    • DC

                      So, that level of education and yet you still maintain an irrational hatred of a player you’ve never personally met, you feel the need to bully others on a baseball blog, you feel the need to broadcast your “qualifications”, and you’re oversensitive regarding regionalism?

        • DC

          I think you’re pretty out of bounds with the remark about an out of wedlock kid.

        • Mister Swackhammer


        • DERP

          please stop

        • https://twitter.com/KramerIndustry Kramerica Industries

          I like how Mike’s the only guy who gave a detailed response.

          Almost as much as how I like Jobber being blamed for being borne out of wedlock. Like he had any control over that.

          • forensic

            Not that Joba was born out of wedlock. Joba’s son was born out of wedlock.

            • https://twitter.com/KramerIndustry Kramerica Industries

              Yeah, I only realized that afterwards. That’s my bad there.

        • manny

          Wow, out of wedlock kid? Are you serious right now?! Even if this wasn’t a baseball blog, that would still be a pretty dumb thing to say.

    • Chilango

      But they did ruin him. They couldn’t decide on a path for him and just screwed it all up. The Joba rules nonsense, the stint in the pen, back to starting etc. A real CF.

      • WhittakerWalt

        Shouldn’t a good pitcher be able to pitch wherever you ask him to pitch? They tried him as a starter because his stuff seemed good enough to start. He looked like he could be a great starter, and a great starter is way more important than a great 8th inning guy (no matter what Mike Francesa says).
        Joba failed because he was never going to be as good again as he was in 2007, which was a ridiculously small sample size where he gave up 1 run in like seven weeks of pitching. The Joba Rules were supposed to limit stress on his arm, I fail to see how that was a bad idea.
        Joba is a bust, pretty much, but I don’t blame the Yankees. The stories of them “ruining” him don’t add up in my mind.
        He’s mostly not successful because he doesn’t throw that hard anymore. He used to throw 100 mph, which made his slider unhittable. Batters couldn’t gear up for both pitchers because they were such different speeds. He doesn’t throw that hard anymore, so they can both hit his fastball and adjust to the slider. He also hangs the slider quite often.

    • DC

      Yes there is.

  • http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso

    Please make September 29th, 2012 the last time that Andruw Jones has an AB in a Yankee uniform

  • Steve S

    Pathetic….this team has no heart. With losses in 2 of the last 3 games to the weakest team in the A.L.with the East title on the line- these guys are going nowhere. They have found more ways to loose games they should win than I could have ever imagined.
    Their inability to win a game when trailing after the 7th or 8th inning is telling. BA with RISP- sad.
    I almost hope the Red Sox put them (and me) out of misery next week…it would be a perfect end to a perfectly worthless season.
    One Yankee has had a season wothy of note….37 year old, over the hill, Captain D.J.- but it’s wasted. In a 3 game series @ the White Sox, Jeter homered in all 3 games and they lost- all three games.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      “Their inability to win a game when trailing after the 7th or 8th inning is telling.”
      Inability to win when trailing after the 8th, yes, but when trailing after the 7th, their record is on par with the other playoff teams, actually better than 6 of the 9 other playoff teams. (Baltimore, Washington, and Cincinnati are better).

      Not that that means much.

    • DERP

      If this team bothers you that much, don’t watch.

      • DC

        Martyr fan syndrome.

  • Cano fan #1

    Fire girardi. Please

    • DC

      And greatly reduce your playoff chances next year.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        How so?

      • James Hellwig



        I bet all 30 MLB teams could get rid of their managers and it wouldn’t make much of a difference in the end results, except that maybe people would bunt less and do less stupid match-up shit.

        MLB managers don’t really do anything. Hitting coaches do real stuff. Pitching coaches do real stuff. 1st/3rd base coaches even do a little bit of real stuff. Managers just give pep talks, fill out lineup cards (often badly, see Andruw Jones), spout baseball cliches to the media, and mistakenly try to enact those baseball cliches during game time (we need to bunt, make things happen; et cetera). I’d suggest that most of what they do is actually counterproductive, with the exception of people who actually get it, like Maddon.

        NBA and NFL head coaches matter a lot because they have to coordinate sophisticated, dynamic systems. There are lots and lots of variables and they all need to work together. Baseball is just a bunch of independent events. There is relatively little you can do to affect the final outcome, and managerial meddling often achieves the opposite of its intentions.

        • DC

          Yeah, managers always have immediate playoff success with a new team.

          • Need Pitching & Hitting

            Fwiw, immediate playoff success wasn’t a problem when Torre took over.
            It’s just rare that a playoff caliber team would actually replace the manager, not that a new manager lessens a team’s chances of making the playoffs.

            • Need Pitching & Hitting

              Also- Red Sox won WS in Francona’s first season.
              Tigers made it to the WS in Leyland’s first season.
              Twins made it to the playoffs for the first time in 11 years in Gardenhire’s first season.
              A’s are lined up to go to the playoffs in Melvin’s first full season (he did manage part of last season).
              Nationals are going to the playoffs in Johnson’s first full season ( he also managed part of last season).
              Cardinals made the playoffs for the first time in years in LaRussa’s first season, and are on track to get to the playoffs in Matheny’s first season.
              Brewers went to the NLCS in Roenicke’s first season.
              Dodgers went to the NLCS in Torre’s first season.
              Red’s won the WS in Piniella’s first season.

              It’s not that first year managers can’t get to the playoffs or have success in the playoffs, it’s just that most teams that change managers aren’t playoff caliber teams to begin with, regardless of manager.

              • DC

                Of course, I always block out Brenly in 2001.

                I agree with what you’re saying. I also think being a manager is much more complex than the simplistic viewpoint expressed above by James. When teams change managers, you can disrupt team “chemistry” (fwiw), new coaches may be ineffective with the players, or if the coaches stay, there can be issues (Boston 2012), etc.

                Not saying it’s impossible; I just feel you run the risk of disrupting the team.

                • forensic

                  As much as you can argue it disrupts chemistry (in a negative tone), it could just as easily be argued that it disrupts possibly over-comfortability or lackadaisicalness and maybe creates a renewed attitude in a good way.

                  Yeah, those words were kind of created to let it flow more, but you get the point of what I’m going for.

                  • Kosmo

                    a good example would be Buck Showalter.

  • dkidd

    every year, i think the script has been written by game 100, then 120, then 140, then 150, then 155. it’s ALWAYS too early to spin a narrative (see: 2001 WS)

    anything can happen. the way the a’s are playing, the yanks could end up beating texas in the play-in game, thereby eliminating a team they would have trouble beating in a longer series, and making the retrospective narrative “thank goodness we let the division slip away”

    yanks look like toast right now, but by thursday, today’s game will feel like it happened in 1993. the only thing to do is take it one excruciating day at a time

    baseball >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every other sport

  • http://Www.redicecreations.com Radar

    Of the two previous comments, (manager analysis and baseball>>>>>>>>>>>>>other sport), the former is the smartest and the latter is my favorite comments from this season. Or ever.

  • Fin

    It seems to me the Yankees are not a serious World Series threat. They have for the most part, not capitalized on their chances this year. Now they are in a fight to just get in the playoffs. Its fairly certain they will make the playoffs one way or another. It is probably a quick out. There have been very few teams in the history of baseball with RISP like the Yankees have.

    Its been an issue for years. Yankeograpy is much more appealing than a single in 4th to drive a run in. So we go into the playoffs with a staff of CC, Kuroda and Petite. Not one of those guys can u expect to shut a lineup down. I see people arguing about who should start this game and that. Who cares? there is a very small difference bettwen all those guys.

    Whos going to get a hit with a man on?

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      “There have been very few teams in the history of baseball with RISP like the Yankees have.”

      They’re not even close to the worst team w/RISP this year, much less in the history of baseball. The RISPfail has been bad, but not nearly historically bad.

      • John

        in the AL the yankees are 11 of 14 with RISP with a putrid 251 avg … the only teams worse are the twins, cleveland and tampa bay … in mlb they are tied for 19 of 30 teams .. which is terrible considering that 7 NL teams are better than them even though the 8 and 9 spots are automatic outs in the NL cuz of the pitcher and usually a defensive specialist. Just plain terrible for the yankees with all those offensive players

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          Definitely bad. But not few teams in the history of baseball bad. Not even few teams this year bad.

          Also 6th in MLB in OPS w/RISP. 4th in wRC+ w/RISP.

          Again, they’ve definitely struggled, but they are nowhere near historically bad.

          • fin

            I was just assuming they were historically bad for a team going into the playoffs (a playoff team) not historically bad for shitty teams.

        • fin

          I’m sure there is a plethora of awful teams that suck like the Yankees do with RISP, but how many playoff teams suck the do?

          • John

            the only playoff team that is worse is Atl .. but again they play in the NL so their numbers is a little skewed … in the AL the Rays are worse but they have one of the worst offenses in MLB

  • tipsie

    Looking forward to a formal announcement in today’s pregame that Nova is no longer starting on Tuesday. “Phelpsie” pitched an inning + on Friday night, and should be able to give 4-5 innings on 3 d rest, I’d think. Say no to Nova.

    Musings: down years from A-Rod, Tex, Grandy, Martin, CC, Nova; 2 geezers @ DH-LF; nothing from Pineda, Mariano, Gardner; significant failure of team’s best player to hit lefties & with RISP; things could be worse, I suppose.

    • Fin

      what kinds of crack are u on? Phelps cant pitch 4 inings. Hes barely pitched in a month. When the Yankees play the A’s for a one game play in, it really wont matter because…CC, Karuda and Hughes are all equally average.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        Phelps threw 110 pitches less than 2 weeks ago. If he did start, he’s stretched out plenty to go at least 4 innings, likely more unless he’s extremely inefficient. Not sure he’d even be on any kind of restricive pitch count.

        • fin

          Dude smoke some better weed, Phelps wasnt going more than 5 when he was starting every 5th day. Now u got him going at least 4? Come on man.

    • John

      you forgot cano .. i kno he has hit 30 hrs but cmon he is not even going to reach 100 rbis mostly batting in the 3-5 whole…. are you freaking kidding me … he needs to get benched for not hustling.

  • Bavarian Yankee

    no word on Cano not covering 1st? In the end that’s what caused the winning run to score.

    Terrible loss but well deserved.

    • fin

      Dude watch the game. Cano was standing next to second base. It was Petite’s play. He grabbed his crotch as if something was wrong but no one even came out to check on him. Cano was not at fault.

  • joe

    Yankees shoot themselves in their own foot in my opinion by hitting too many homeruns in a season and let me explain why. Just look at when the Yankees peak in their homeruns every year which generally comes in the months of June and July. Now going into September the Yankees had 200 homeruns. If you look at the rest of the league only 5 other teams are likely to reach 200 which 200 homeruns in a season by a team is considered exceptional.

    Well if the Yankees have already 235, what are the actual odds the Yankees will actually be able to continue hitting a homerun with each additional at bat knowing what they are doing is extremely rare. Point is the Yankees have a god awful record when they don’t hit the homerun, and they use up too many homeruns for the first 4-5 months of the season that they don’t leave themselves any leeway to hit more. Think about it though, if the Yankees were built like the Cardinals offense, they would have a much greater chance of hitting a homerun with each additional at bat, because the number of homers the Cardinals hit is much more common around the league and provides a greater window to have gas left in the tank to have a big spurt in homeruns by season’s end. Plus the majority of homeruns will be solo shots anyway, so that doesn’t do any kind of serious damage that a 2 run double can do which can score 2 and advance other baserunners multiple bases to setup scoring opportunities. The percentage chance of hitting homerun goes down dramatically when you’ve hit the amount of homeruns the Yankees hit. Personally give me 170-175 homeruns hit by the Yankees, if this offense is as good as everyone proclaims they are then they should be able to score the same amount of runs hitting a lot less homeruns, because Texas certainly has no problem with that.

  • Deep Thoughts

    While they are casting Rajai Davis’ Hall of Fame bust, I’m wondering why he hasn’t felt a fastball under his chin or on his ass yet. No way that guy should be that comfortable up there. Especially after Robbie taking one on the hand.

  • Zack

    I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Do I think the Yankees will make it far in the postseason?
    No I don’t because they count too much on home runs and nothing else.
    But the O’s that some people are saying are better then the Yanks? Take away the home runs they’ve hit the past two weeks and they wouldn’t even been an issue for the AL East division.

    • fin

      Its not that they count on the HR too much. Its that they continually fail to get the one hit they need. Just a single is all they need at many times during games we have all watched. They just fail to come up with that single repeatedly. They end up relying on the HR not because they their offense is limited, but because it fails. Cano isnt going to drive in 90 runs, batting 4th for the Yankees. Thats pretty fucking sad.

      • toad


        There’s nothing wrong with hitting a lot of HR’s, for Pete’s sake. That’s a crazy argument. The problem is not scoring runs in other ways to go along with the HR’s.

    • tommydee2000

      It’s not like they’re hitting the ball all that hard going for HRs.

      I know there’s a school of thought that strike outs are like other outs and BA doesn’t count, but have you ever seen a K sneak through the hole or get booted by the shortstop?

      Grandy’s OBP spread from BA is around 80 points. He’s not the only one, and I hate to break the news to everyone, but the pitching they’ve been facing is not that great.

      • Kosmo

        also the hitters they´ve been facing are not so great. Rajah Davis ? is it me or does it seem like NY gets murdered by bottom of the lineup hitters ?

      • TomH

        I know there’s a school of thought that strike outs are like other outs and BA doesn’t count, but have you ever seen a K sneak through the hole or get booted by the shortstop?

        You’re wasting your breath here by advancing these obvious truths against the received opinion. A high obp is a great thing, especially if it comprises lots of singles, doubles, and triples to go with the walks.

  • Syrio Forel/Better off Eddard/Occasional Troll

    Teams actually consider it a good thing when a player is a parent because because guess what? It shows responsibility

    uhhh… link? ill call your bullshit out since everyone else is afraid to.

  • this space for rent

    By November I’ll be jonesing for some baseball, but damn if I don’t find it nearly impossible to watch these assholes right now.

    Endless RISPfails, stubborn-as-a-mule Girardi, boneheaded miscues…this team has it all.

    They won’t do it, but here’s what I would do in the off-season: let Swisher walk, trade Granderson, sign Josh Hamilton to play right, slide Gardner to center, play the best defensive left fielder you can find.

    Eliminating Swisher and Granderson’s salaries more than frees up the money it would take to sign Hamilton. The lineup needs a bat like his to give it more consistent thump when they have the opportunity to do damage.

    Sure, there’s a litany of reasons not to sign Hamilton, but fortune favors the bold.

    • Rich in NJ

      The roster construction and personnel deployment suck in some ways (Ibanez in this OF again is moronic), but. I root for cloth so….

      • JohnnyC

        “But the fact that a team with the resources of the Yankees farm system and a $200 million-plus payroll can’t come up with anyone more reliable than Eduardo Nuñez to back those guys up with is not just alarming. It is mind-boggling.”

        Andrew Marchand

        On the bright side, Andruw Jones can always run into one, right?

  • TomH

    Everyone’s offering solutions for the future. Mine is that they just get younger, including taking some risks with the really younger. A good warning shot across the bow of the oldsters would be to drop Andruw if they get to the post-season.

    • Chilango

      Would seem logical move. We have to keep Tex and ARod but Swisher and Granderson can definitely be let go. Signing Hamilton gives me the willies.

  • Chilango

    I thought it was obvious that the Yankee RISPFAIL was way out of line with that of other teams, but it’s not true. For instance,

    With runners on base: Yanks .259/.342; Orioles: .259/.324
    WRISP: .251/.349 and .257/.332 Yanks/ O’s respectively
    WRISP 2outs: .227/.330; .228/.322 Yanks/ O’s respectively

  • tipsie

    really annoyed that Dickerson is not in today’s lineup

  • Andruw’s Smile

    When Tex comes back, Nunez really needs to be the DH vs lefties, with Ibanez vs righties (an argument for Dickerson can be made but I think Ibanez has shown enough spotty power that he’ll be in there)

    A lineup of Jeter, Ichiro, A-Rod, Cano, Tex, Swisher, Granderson, Martin and Ibanez (or Nunez) isn’t terrible.

    4 games left, 3-1 should win the division or at least force a tie in the division. If the Yankees can’t go 3-1 against the Blue Jays and Red Sox, they probably don’t belong in the playoffs anyway.

  • Eddard reboot v.1.0

    When are people going to finally put the blame where it really lies – Joe Girardi. Buck is such a better manager than Joe. And how many games do the Os have to be even with the Yanks before people give them credit for being every bit as good? They’ve done it for 160, how many more? 300? 500? 10,000?

    Girardi said they’re not the Bronx bunters. Then he sends up guys like Swisher, Granderson and Martin to bunt. Ever see Adam Dunn attempt a bunt? No, because POWER HITTERS SHOULD NOT BE BUNTING, EVER! If you want to send Nix up there with runners on 1st and 2nd, no outs that’s an acceptable bunt. A .320 hitting Jeter should not be bunting, EVER!

    Girardi has no feel for his pitchers. A laboring Hughes vs the Os with Mark Reynolds due up who has destroyed Phil previously, Joe leaves him in lead gone game over. A Phil Hughes who just struck out the previous batter and has handled the on deck hitter Span, takes him out in favor of Boone Logan who has been ineffective all year, lead gone game over. Why bring in Boone and not a fireman like Robertson to get out of the jam? Because Boone is one of Girardi’s “guys” just like Andruw Jones is one of Girardi’s “guys.”

    So instead of trying anything different vs LHP Girardi trots out the same old lineup and rests guys with 5 games left to play. Is Girardi going to rest Martin and Jeter in the playoffs? Because that’s basically what these last 5 games were, a playoff. Girardi has to go at the end of the year if he can’t get this team to the WS.