Cashman: We’ll only get younger if it makes us better

Friday Night Open Thread
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Via Kristie Ackert: Brian Cashman said during a recent radio interview that while he wants to make his roster younger, he’ll only do so if it makes the team better. “Do we need to get younger? Only if it gets us better,” he said. “Do I want us to be younger and better? Yes, but will I sacrifice, would I go younger to make us worse and forego better choices that are older that make us better? No … In theory, I want us to get younger and better, but in reality, that’s not always realistic; it depends on what is immediately coming through your system and if you feel that the players currently knocking on the door are potential everyday guys.”

The Yankees had the oldest roster in baseball this past season and they absolutely should look to get younger moving forward, but that doesn’t mean they should throw a bunch of kids out there an expecting to contend. Getting younger for the Yankees means acquiring players in the primes of their careers, so 27, 28, 29 years old. Something like that. Going any younger than that almost always means getting worse first, and there’s no reason to do that.

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Friday Night Open Thread
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  • jjyank

    My thoughts exactly, Cash. There’s an awful lot of talk around here to just get younger and “let the kids play”. But will that make the team better? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe not even in the long run, either. If Banuelos was healthy and had a good year at AAA, sure, I’d be all about letting that kid play. But trading Cano/A-Rod/Granderson so that guys like Adams/CoJo/Almonte/etc. can play? That could very easily make the team worse both in the short term and in the long run.

    I’m sure Cashman will do what he can to make the team better, and I hope he can make it younger in the process. But if not, then just make the team better. It’s kind of funny that some of the best players on the 2012 Yankees included guys like Jeter, Ichiro, and Ibanez. Just get better.

    We talk a lot about “spoiled” Yankee fans, and I don’t really consider myself in that category, despite having grown up with a dynasty. However, I will say that there is some aspect that rubbed off on me. I will probably never be in favor of blowing the team up and completely rebuilding. I’ve never seen a Yankee team that doesn’t contend, and I don’t want to. I fully understand that no team can “build for the postseason” and consistently win championships. But that doesn’t mean I don’t want them to try every year.

    I have a feeling that this will be one of the more interesting off seasons that we’ve seen in a while, from a Yankee perspective.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

      Well said. Although, I think there’s a chance that it could turn out to be not all that interesting – I don’t mind that either.

      • jjyank

        My feelings have certainly been wrong before :)

    • mustang

      GREAT COMMENT!!!

  • Hoss

    Getting younger may also equate with having a more exciting offensive team, eg speed on the basepaths, players who can be expected to improve year upon year, and guys who cab play every day without needing days or half days off. If Cashman is saying he’d rather invest in scrap head pickups instead of younger players with potential, we’re in for more of the same: A boring, all-or-nothing offense that cannot steal, take an extra base or avoid nagging injuries that are common with players in their mid-thirties.
    It seems that he’s trying to avoid his inability to judge young talent, as evidenced by his trading away good young players and keeping (or trading for) the underperformers.

    • Steve (different one)

      You are reading what you want to read into what he said. He said nothing controversial.

      • Hoss

        I’m not reading anything into what he said. I’m commenting on what he has done since he has been GM of the Yankees.

        • Steve (different one)

          Yes, you are. Read what you wrote.

          Cashman has gone for scrap heap pickups to fill short term holes. He had also traded for players on the right side of 30 with attractive contracts. He has also signed big contract FAs. He has also handed starting jobs to young players from their system. He has also traded for veterans.

          He’s taken every single approach to build the roster.

          All he is saying is that you don’t go all one way or another. Pretty obvious and not really an interesting quote.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I’ve been looking for “what he has done since he has been GM of the Yankees” in your comment. Nowhere there is there any mention of five championships.

          Maybe you’re referring to this guy:

          https://www.facebook.com/brian.cashman.3

    • jjyank

      “It seems that he’s trying to avoid his inability to judge young talent”

      How did you get that out of it? Getting younger just for the sake of getting younger is dumb. There are plenty of young players who are bad. All Cashman said was he wanted to make the team better, and if he can make it younger in the process, he will. I’m not sure where you’re getting an avoidance of his inability to judge young talent.

      • Hoss

        Who would you rather have on your pitching staff: Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain or Ian Kennedy?
        Who would you rather have in your outfield? Curtis Granderson or Austin Jackson?
        Who would you rather have in your bullpen? Jonathan Albaladejo or Tyler Clippard? Or perhaps George Kontos?
        Also, let’s not forget that the Rangers had a choice between Joaquin Arias and Robinson Cano when they traded us A-Rod.
        Cashman can’t live off the Swisher trade and an unlimited pocketbook for free agent signings forever.

        • jjyank

          What are you talking about? You said this: “It seems that he’s trying to avoid his inability to judge young talent”.

          I said I don’t know where you got that from his statement. I said nothing about past trades. I did say that I find it overly critical to take such a benign statement and make it out to be “avoiding” something.

        • Steve (different one)

          So your premise is that over 15 years, he has lost a few trades? No shit.

        • Jamey

          I’m guessing you were amongst the fans who had a coronary demanding Cashman be fired when Brad Halsey won his 1st game with the D-Backs.

          • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

            +1

        • Steve (different one)

          The point is, if you want to argue that Cashman isn’t a good GM, that’s fine. Most would agree that he’s not without faults, and you are entitled to your opinion. There are prob decent arguments on either side.

          My point is that nothing in this particular quote really reflects anything on his abilities. This is simply standard for running a team in a large market. You always try to be the best you can, and always have to weight present value and future value.

          At the time of the Granderson trade, Cashman even said “Granderson is what we think Jackson will eventually become, but Granderson brings that now”. They made a conscious choice to sacrifice future value to help maximize their chance to win a WS in 2010-2012. They didnt win one, so now we are siting here wishing we could undo the trade, because the past is gone. But that doesn’t mean they didn’t reap benefits in 2010-2011. Granderson hit like a champ in those postseasons, it wasn’t his fault they didn’t win. He improved their shot. The Yankees made that choice to trade present for future,but that is NOT the same thing as trading Jackson because they didn’t think he would be good.

          • a realist

            “Granderson is what we think Jackson will eventually become, but Granderson brings that now”.

            Is this revisionist history? I mean who really thought that Jackson had 40 HR potential? Wasn’t he traded because of lack of power. If the braintrust actually saw 40 HR potential and traded him, Kennedy, and Coke for Granderson then this trade looks even worse. I mean why trade a young version of a guy and 2 pitchers for an older version of the young guy? that’s impressive because I didn’t think this trade could ever look worse.

            • Bo Knows

              No it’s not revisionist, also Granderson was never a 40 home run guy until he joined the Yankees. He was a 25 homer guy for them who hit 30 once. Curtis Granderson was called Jackson’s ceiling, but Jackson didn’t hit for any power in the yankees system so they chose to move him

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Hughes
          Granderson the past couple of years, Jackson the next couple
          David Robertson (curiously not mentioned)

          Does that answer your questions?

    • Fin

      I cant play GM, the Yankees have more issues than Mike is talking about. First an foremost is the $189. $189 is alot of money if you’re the Rays. Its not alot if you’re the Yankees who have had a larger payroll for the last 10yrs.

      The second issue is not one player other than relief pitchers are ready to help this team from the minor league system. It might be 2 years until an actual prospect who is an every day player is ready to be called up.

      The absolute failure of the minor league system is what is really killing the Yankees. The Yankees have Nova, Hughes, Phelps, Gardner and maybe Nunez that the minor leagues have produced in the last 5 or 6 years, other than relievers. Nova, may or may not be a major league pitcher (I think hes a number 2, best of this bunch), Hughes is a solid number 3, Phelps is a back end guy and Gardner is more of a lefty side of a platoon than an every day player.

      The fact is, if you look at the Yankees lineup its all FA, or trading for expensive Vets. No one on this team, other than Jeter and Cano came through the Yankees system. Cano has been a major leaguer for 9yrs, and hes the last guy to come through the system. I dont count Gardner as hes yet to be an every day player. Its kinda sad.

      There isnt one every day player in the minor leagues thats even been in high A ball for a year thats a real prospect in the world of scouting. Its a mess.

      • Ted Nelson

        No. They’ve produced a ton more talent than that the last 5 years. They just traded it away to mitigate risk. Which is what most large market teams do, because it’s the rational thing to do.

        Gardner is one of the better OF in baseball when he’s healthy. Do you know what baseball is?

  • Vic

    You can’t win without young, homegrown talent. At some point you have to give it a chance. You probably don’t win in ’96 without Jeter, a rookie.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

      Jeter was a high pick and a premier prospect. There is no one here now that warrants that chance.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Jeter didn’t exactly beat long odds to get a chance. He wasn’t a nobody.

      • Vic

        Jeter, Williams, Mo, Posada, Pettitte, all young, homegrown players at the time, all integral, Mike. The point is that the team going forward should model itself on the 90’s Yankees, not the 80’s Yankees, as you seem to advocate.

        • jjyank

          No, the point is that the 90’s “model” was a product of high draft picks (like Jeter) and an insane amount of luck. If it was so easy, every team would do it. That dynasty was special because it is so rare.

          The expectation that a team can model itself in a way that produces All-Star/HOF caliber players every few years is absurd.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          You’re wasting your time if you think the 90s Yankees is a realistic thing to strive for. Producing a HOF SS, the best RP in history, and borderline HOF at LHP, C, and CF all at the same time is not repeatable.

          • mustang

            Bingo.

          • Vic

            They don’t have to be HOFers, Mike. They just have to be to be good players. Then you augment with smart trades and FA’s. Remember, the “dynasty” didn’t win anything until O’Neal got there (and they haven’t won much since he left).
            I wonder if you’d consider doing a post on how many homegrown players were on the rosters of every champion since, say, 2001. I think it would be a real eye-opener.

        • Robinson Tilapia (never missed an opportunity to namedrop Chuck Cary)

          Great.

          Let’s see how you like what the years which PRECEDED the dynasty would look like today.

          I bet we could still even sign CHUCK CARY.

        • Steve (different one)

          You are talking about 5 guys who all have a legitimate argument for the hall of fame. This model is an impossible standard. It is not a “model”, it is a once in a lifetime occurrence.

          That said, I agree with you that the economics of the current game dictate more homegrown players. Those 90’s/early 00 teams were also entitled to whatever veteran help they wanted to grab (almost). Revenue sharing and the structure of the CBS will make it harder for the Yankees to grab players.

          But there also seems to be this feeling because the Yankee farm system had some unfortunate injuries/performances this year that the system is barren, which isn’t the case. They won’t be ready this year, but the Yankees should be able to produce one everyday OFer from their trio of studs. Sanchez is still a stud. There are a plethora of power bullpen arms in the chute.

          I think we are going to see more guys coming up from the farm over the next few years, but the Yankees are never going to be the Rays. That’s just not their business model.

        • toad

          I agree. If there are guys like that in the minor league system the Yankees should definitely bring them up.

  • Rich in NJ

    In order to get better over the next few years, it sometimes requiring getting younger and worse over the next year. If a team doesn’t do that, they may never be as good as they can be. So I would prefer taking a step back to be in a position to take several steps forward. I realize that nothing is guaranteed, but I think it increases the chances of sustained success.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Is this the time to step back though? Cano’s in his prime, Granderson will be around another year, Rivera might be, Jeter will be, Sabathia hasn’t fallen of a cliff … shouldn’t they try to maximize winning with this window and worry about the rebuilding after Jeter, Mo, Pettitte retire and Cano and Sabathia start to fall off?

      • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

        Absolutely. Blowing this team up shouldn’t even be considered. How often does it not work out when management decides to blow a good team up and go in a different direction? The Pistons of a few years ago come to mind. I’ve never been a fan of the idea. People lose sight of how difficult it is to get as far at the Yanks got this year. Some tweaking may be necessary, but by no means a major overhaul.

        • jjyank

          You don’t even need to go to a different sport. Look at the Royals, the Pirates, the Astros, etc. These are teams that have been rebuilding year after year, and have yet to break out of mediocrity.

          • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

            Well, I was just making a reference to a team that was a legit contender, went through an overhaul, and immediately got bad. Pistons just came to mind. People underestimate how hard it is to build a squad this good and lose sight of how close they were to the WS. The nature of the way the season ended certainly didn’t help.

            • jjyank

              Right, I got ya. I think those 3 teams highlight that “rebuilding” isn’t some magical formula that will re-create the 90’s dynasty in 3-5 years. If the Yankees go that route, they could just as easily end up fighting for last place for the next decade. It’s one thing to hug a prospect, but to hug prospects that don’t even exist yet? Rebuilding is far from a sure thing.

      • Rich in NJ

        But for the upcoming austerity budget, I would say no. But rather than risk a more precipitous decline in 2014, I think it make senses to start mitigating the risk, especially since Jeter and Rivera could well perform off their career norms, maybe significantly.

        Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean doing it all at once, but I think the process needs to begin this offseason, by trading Granderson for younger, cost-controlled players.

        Also, I think you have said, and I agree, that you wouldn’t give Cano 10 years (I’m not sure what your absolute max is; mine is seven).

        So I would also consider trading him this offseason, but only if the return is pretty awesome.

        • mustang

          I wish you had been a fan in the 80’s and then see where you stand on this issue. Everyone throws this “austerity budget” round like it set in stone. YES and everything that’s related to the Yankees as a business is fueled of one thing the teams success on the field. So pardon me if I’m skeptical about the “austerity budget”, but I can’t see them letting the budget get in the way of winning.
          Cashman playing it right tries to get younger, but winning comes first because “getting younger and worse over the next year” can easily become just being bad over the next decade.

    • Ted Nelson

      How is taking a step back going to help in the future, though? If Austin, Mason, and Sanchez were knocking on the doors of MLB, sure I’d consider giving them a chance. Maybe you get worse short-term, but the potential payoff is huge. They’re not quite there yet, though. What young guys are going to help them get worse next year to get better long-term? CoJo and Adams are the only candidates I can think of. Romine if his back is healthy, and maybe Nunez. These guys can be worked into back-up roles if they earn them, and then grow those roles if they really shine.

  • mt

    This is such an obvious statement – of course, you only want to get younger to get better. The problem is short-term pain versus long-term gain. No one expects the Yankees to throw out AA players from last year as starters and trade all their veterans. But the reality is that they are saddled with age they cannot get rid of or who have no trade clauses – Aord, Tex, Jeter. Who is going to replace those players? we do need to focus on getting younger in some areas where we do have flexibility. They need to also understand 1) older players get hurt more and take longer to recover (yes, some of Yankees accidents have been freak and could happened to anyone of any age but the Jeter eventual fracture and the time it took ArodPeettite to recover and getr back on field probably ahs something to do with age.)

    Also everyone says that Cano, Grandy amd Swish failed in postseason and they were in their prime. Is it possible that the curves of player decline have been so distorted with steroids, HGH and amphetamines over the last twenty or thirty years that the true prime (without those supplements) is really 23-28 now and 29 is beginning of some decline?

    So if they have to sign Torii Hunter or Ichiro to a 1-2 year deal in order to still compete I understand but they need to look for as many other opportunities when they do have a major decision to get younger as they can. So they need to be very careful with big decisions like avoiding Cano 7-10 year contract and not extending Granderson (keep him for 1 year and get the draft choice when he leaves or trade him this offseason if they can, although not sure of his trade value.).

    A perfect short-term pain versus long-term gain issue is going with yuounger players on your bench so when older regular players get hurt younger palyers step in. Now younger players may not be as good as a former All-Star Chavez or Garcia or Ibanez but it may avoid 1) eventual over-exposure of those older players and 2) you may be able to determine whether you have a long-term asset among the younger players. For as much we celebrate Ibanez performance in playoffs (which was clutcn) Chavez totally fell apart – given how much more he played this year than in prior years, age may have somethingt o do with that.

    Getting younger in a few spots still will not make the Yankees young.

  • Steve (different one)

    All he is saying is that if the young guys do not profile as everyday players, they may look elsewhere. This is obvious. You let Gary Sanchez grow into the catching job, but you might not hand a job to Cervelli just because he’s younger.

    A lot of this has to do with Nunez. Nunez had a handful of good AB’s at the end of the season and now everyone wants him installed in some sort of starting role next year, ignoring his entire history as a player up to that point. I think the Yankees actually like Nunez a lot, and they have given him many chances to show he has a role as a future starter, but the guy just can’t make routine throws. How do you balance trying to win a super competitive division with developing a guy with potential but who makes you hold your breath every time the ball is hit to him?

    The Yankees never “rebuild”, but IF Mo and Andy don’t come back next year, I think the introduction of the Astros into the AL west is going to make a Wildcard VERY tough to win. If the Os or Rays improve this winter, I could easily see a season like 2008. 88-90 wins and no postseason. If everyone does come back, including Kuroda, they should have the pitching to compete. So too soon to say, IMO.

    The goal, IMHO, is to try to upgrade the offense while keeping all 4 of your position player studs. If 2 of those guys pan out in 2014/5, that will go a long way to turning your lineup over.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

      I think the ALE may have gotten worse. It’s unlikely that Baltimore can repeat what they just did. Decent chance that they don’t even contend next year. The Sox will be bad too.

      • Mike HC

        I agree the Orioles will have a hard time repeating this year, but I wouldn’t underestimate their spending power if they so choose to really make a push. With the Red Sox rebuilding and the Yanks under budget constraints (or at the least, not looking to add anymore salary), Wieters and Jones in their prime, now could be a good time to make that push.

        • Mike HC

          I’ll add Manny Machada ready to contribute to the ML team and start his career. Orioles might be around for a little while.

          • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

            The pitching is the bigger issue. They were 9th in the AL, and close to 10th, in runs against. It’ll be tough to contend again if that continues.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              Bullpen performance is extremely volatile as well. If they don’t improve the rotation and the bullpen goes from out of this world good to merely pretty good, they’re a 78-82 win team, if that. Their record in one-run games won’t be historically good again.

            • Mike HC

              Agreed. But my overall point was that if they start to spend some money on starting pitching, and find a good one or two, they can sustain some level of success. Like Axisa just said though, repeating their success in one run games is not realistic.

              • Ted Nelson

                Next to everything went right for that team. They can add talent and still get worse.

  • Mike HC

    People have been saying the Yanks are “old” and are sure to decline if they don’t get younger for like almost 20 years now. And here they are, still old, and still making the playoffs year after year.

    • viridiana

      Yeah, and in that stretch they added Mo, Jeter, Pettitte, Posada, Bernie, Mendoza and then Cano, D-Rob, Gardner, Hughes, Nova and Phelps. It’s the successful young (and let us not forget ultra-cheap) homegrowns that have enabled the Yankees — along with some great FA signings — to overcome the age and the occasional bad trades 9though Cashman does get credit for halting the really ugly type deals that lost us McGriff, Drabek, Buhner, McGee and other All-Star talents).
      But Cashman seems to have learned a strange lesson from his much-touted commitment to youth five or six years ago. Somehow, because some of these kids were not instant All-Stars he seems to have soured on giving them a chance to play. Eventually, the Yankees will sink or swim — as they have for 20 years– on the young talent they can produce. And that talent will be harder and harder for a successful big-market team to find under the new CBA. Every prospect — even platoon types — is far more valuable now thean ever. Trading is simply the way to overpay. The Yankees suffered for 15 years — from 1981 to 1996 — when they went that route. Those of us who were around then don’t want to see the same attitude towards youthful talent resurface.

      • Mike HC

        I think your concerns were much more relevant 5 or 6 years ago than they are today. Cashman has been vocal and very committed to getting contributions from our minor league system. I think he has done a good job of integrating prospects that can contribute (Gardner, Joba, Hughes, Phelps, Nova, Robertson etc …), using valued prospects to make trades (Jackson, Kennedy, Vizcaino, Montero). And our top prospects we have now (Banuelos, Williams etc …)

        I guess you can question how successful he has been, but the strategy to develop our own players is there.

      • Ted Nelson

        What? You completely contradict yourself there. First you point to a list of your guys they’ve given a chance to play as recently as this season, then you say Cashman doesn’t want young guys to play… Which is it? What young guys did Cashman stop from playing? What great AAA prospects is he holding back?

        They’ve had a rash of bad luck with the prospects who should be coming in right now. Brackman, Adams, Romine, Betances, Banuelos, Bleich, along with Phelps, CoJo, Warren… that’s the group that could have been knocking on the door or have a foot in right now. Bad luck with prospects isn’t unusual, but that was pretty bad. All those guys had massive injuries or imploded. There’s still a decent chance some make it, but things were delayed by the rash of set-backs.

        • Ted Nelson

          Plus Pineda.

  • http://none Favrest

    Just get rid of Arod. I just want that disease off my team. I don’t even care if they eat every cent of his contract. They deserve to.

    • jjyank

      Well I’m glad it’s not actually your team. Exhibit A of “Let’s make the Yankees worse, just for shits and giggles”.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

      Intelligent contribution.

    • Robinson Tilapia (never missed an opportunity to namedrop Chuck Cary)

      *releases trap door*

      *chuck cary*

  • Deep Thoughts

    I want to link to this post every time someone writes about making Mustelier an everyday starter.

    • Robinson Tilapia (never missed an opportunity to namedrop Chuck Cary)

      The guy pushing 30? Sure.

      • whozat

        I bet he’s right that people will cite Mustelier as someone the Yankees could use to “get younger”, because they have no idea how old he actually is. People did the same with Jorge Vazquez a couple years back.

    • Ted Nelson

      Yeah. I wouldn’t mind Mustelier getting a shot on the bench if a couple of injuries occur, but he’s hardly a top prospect.

  • Robinson Tilapia (never missed an opportunity to namedrop Chuck Cary)

    Folks working themselves into a lather over this is just hilarious. This is such an obvious statement for Cashman to make.

    I wonder if some younger fans suffer from a case of “survivor guilt” with this franchise, meaning that they watch fans of other teams actually peak and valley in a way this team hasn’t in their lifetimes and feel bad to the point where they fantasize what it would be like to actually field a bad team. This leads to these “blow it up” comments from people who I don’t think could actually stomach a string of losing seasons.

    “Survivor Guilt,” from the folks who brought you the “Victory Lap.”

  • Arnold Palmer’s Putter

    Mike, I think you make a good point, and I think most of us don’t realize how hard being a GM is (which is why the average shelf life of a GM is short);
    I don’t care how good the prospect is, you just don’t know.
    DJ would not have started in 96 if Tony Fernandez hadn’t gotten hurt, and I remember all the interviews with Torrey about using a rookie shortstop, and what a short leash he was going to have.
    And the apoplexy in the New York papers when gene Michael traded Roberto Kelly to the reds for Paul oneill: an allstar CF coming off a career year for a platoon right fielder.
    Obviously they had a good read on Bernie, but trading the best player on your team for a platoon outfielder and starting a rookie.
    Can’t imagine what the blogosphere would say today.

  • Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)

    Cashman, like Jeter is still incredibly good at saying a whole bunch of words without actually saying anything but still causes fans to go absolutely crazy. This quote is honestly perfect common sense. “We want to get younger, but getting better is priority number one.” No shit, that is the model that this team has worked under since I started following baseball in the late 90s, and you know what, it fucking works. I understand that the team has “only” won 3 World Series since like 1999, but they’ve been in the playoffs every year but one. Anybody who thinks you can “build a team to win in the postseason” needs to look no further than teams like the 2012 Tigers and the 2007 Rockies, mediocre teams that got hot at the right time and ran into opponents who were slumping.

    As for “getting younger” for this coming season there are ways to do that, If Granderson’s option is picked up that leaves the entire infield and two outfield spots covered, with a “young” guy in Left (Gardner)and Second(Cano). That leaves RF open so the team could look at signing a “young” guy like BJ Upton or trading for his brother or even Chase Headley if you want to empty the farm. If the team does what I personally think they should do and move Alex to a DH about 2/3rds of the time then you could look into also getting younger at 3rd (though outside of trading for Headley, idk what the market is like for 3rd baseman.) All I’m saying is for those who think the Yankees need to blow everything up in order to get younger, there are ways to get younger in certain positions while maintaining the ability to win and having older guys on the team.

  • Chas131

    “Kevin, it’s Brian. I want upton, lets make it happen. Call me back before I trade nova to the whit sox”

  • Andy in Sunny Daytona

    My only real wish is that the Yankees fill their bench with younger, homegrown players. Loved what Chavez did this year, but I would hope next year (if Chavez doesn’t come back) they give that role to David Adams or Corban Joseph.

  • Andrew Brotherton

    I think that we should only try and trade players like A-Rod, Cano, or Granderson if we get players that fit both a long term aspect of our team and short term respectability. I mean that we get younger, and possibly lose a little more in the short term but they are assets that are positioned to really pay off in the long run.

  • Chad Gaudin the Friendly Ghost

    I think that ‘old players’ are where there is new arbitrage opportunity. People unnecessarily discount a useful player because they are on the wrong side of 35. Do I want a team full of 40 year olds? No, but I think that saying ‘get younger’ in a vacuum is a silly strategy to build a team with.

    Just look at the youngest teams in the league:

    Houston
    Kansas City
    Chicago Cubs
    Seattle
    San Diego

    San Francisco is the third oldest team in the league, and Detroit is 9th.

    Obviously youth isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

    • Ted Nelson

      Agreed. Good point.

  • Brendan

    “Going any younger than that almost always means getting worse first, and there’s no reason to do that.”

    No reason, other than the fact that they have maintained that they want to come in below the cap, and have about $77M committed to just three players through 2016, all of whom are 33 or older. $92M to four through 2014 (counting Jeter’s option, which they’ll certainly pick up if he doesn’t retire). So they have less than $100M to fill the other 21 roster spots. I know other teams do a great job with a lot less money, but the Yankees pay a premium to every free agent they sign because they have the money to do so. This team is about to run into a budgetary brick wall with their obligations to players on the down slope of their careers. I don’t see how we’re not looking at at least a couple years of the Yankees getting both younger and a little worse.

    • Ted Nelson

      The Yankees don’t pay a premium. They just sign premium guys. When other teams sign Pujols or Fielder or whoever else they also pay ridiculous money. Even when they sign guys like Heath Bell and Jason Bay.

  • http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso

    If we had any young talent in the system that was within 6 months of being a viable a MLB player, then it would be an issue.

    We don’t, so it isn’t. The guys that project as MLB everyday talent are at least 18 months away (probably 24).

    Getting younger from within (right now) = getting much, much worse.

    Getting younger from within in 24 months = getting bad initially but having it pay off later.

    It’s not time yet…..

    • JobaWockeeZ

      That assumes we don’t trade the prospects for worthy players again.

      • JobaWockeeZ

        unworthy*

        • Ted Nelson

          You had it right the first time

  • Brian S.

    Here is to another year of half the team being really old and unlikeable…

    • Deep Thoughts

      Hell yes. Who cares if they’re likeable as long as they’re winning?

    • Ted Nelson

      Here’s to making the playoffs again

  • Wayne

    If cashmans idea of getting better is trading top young talent away than he is wrong! This is the time to develop but not to trade top young talent away because you have a few guys still at the top. And we should not wait till you trade all your best prospects away and cc gets old along with jeter arod cano and then say now it’s time to develop young players!

    • Ted Nelson

      Where is this coming from? He didn’t say that.

      You evaluate every trade individually on its own merits. Now is not the time to stop trading or to trade everyone away… never is the time for that.

  • Rocky Road Redemption

    Actually, I’m not so sure if I agree.

    Why not try a rebuilding year for once?

    You know what? We ARE too old, we ARE saddled with shitty contracts, and a lot of our best players might be reaching the end of their prime.

    Now, when people hear rebuilding they think of the Pirates or the O’s every year but this year. But honestly, we’re the Yankees. If rebuilding goes on too long we sign whoever the fuck we want and go on our merry way.

    In the meantime in the two or three years we’re trying out some of the younger guys we just might find a couple of younger gems who we haven’t traded away for once.

    I wouldn’t hate that attitude, as frustrating as it would be for awhile.

    • Ted Nelson

      Uhhh…………… Really?

      “Why not try a rebuilding year for once?”

      Because that would do them no good at all. The shitty contracts would still be there. They would pass over good values in FA and trades that would have added value for the fans and the org. The “young gems” you’re looking at aren’t going to help in the beginning of 2013. Now is not the time.

  • The Moral Majority is Neither

    Royals are supposedly willing to part with a Hosmer/Gordon/Moustakos/Butler for pitching.

    Nova/Gardner for Gordon/Moustakos: who hangs up?

    • Ted Nelson

      Who do you think hangs up? Come on… You have given them zero guys who could actually be described as Ps for the last half of the season.

  • mustang

    Can someone come up with the average age for teams that won the WS since 2000?

    Just curious.

    • Brendan

      2000 Yankees: 31.3
      2001 Diamondbacks: 32.3
      2002 Angels: 28.3
      2003 Marlins: 26.1
      2004 Red Sox: 30.4
      2005 White Sox: 29.2
      2006 Cardinals: 29.7
      2007 Red Sox: 30.2
      2008 Phillies: 29.9
      2009 Yankees: 30.7
      2010 Giants: 29.6
      2011 Cardinals: 29.3

      2012 Giants: 27.6
      2012 Tigers: 27.9

      From baseballreference, though for what it’s worth, these are the average ages of the whole roster, not the starting 9 and the rotation.

      • mustang

        So the avg age is 30 to 31 for the last 12 WS winners with Yankees winning twice with rosters of avg age over 30.

        I think it’s telling since you obviously need the whole roster to reach and win the WS.

        I guess its fun for some fans to watch the kind of things that Billy Beane does with trades and youth, but that doesn’t seem to achieve many WS rings.

  • jerseyguy916

    What the Yanks–and the fans–do no want is 2013 turning into this past year’s Sawx team. Bahsten lucked out that the Dodgers made that insane trade taking on all that salary, not to mention Mr Clubhouse Cancer, Josh Beckett. What was left was a roster full of professional mediocrity, plus a handful of good players. “Getting young” means basically going down the same path.
    Yanks need to tell Pettitte, thanks but no thanks, about a return in 2013. Resign Kuroda and go with Hughes, Nova and Phelps rotation. Pineda should be back at some point. New York has a strong bullpen already–and Mo will return. Put Nunez at SS for 60, 70 games, minimum. You want to get younger, that’s where it starts. The big thing to remember is DO NOT PANIC. This is still the same team that lead the league in wins.

  • Duh Innings

    I’m not in the “younger is better” camp. I’m not in the “older is better camp” either. Guys are the ages they are. Look at Kuroda. Most pitchers – PLAYERS – his age are either no longer in baseball or sucking, Kuroda was neither this season. Nova is over a decade years younger than Kuroda and Nova sucked. Pettitte was the oldest Yankee pitcher and maybe even player and he was solid. Ibanez had a nice regular season for a guy his age and a great postseason at a bargain price: $1.1M base plus whatever bonuses based on plate appearances he collected if any.

    Nunez is young, but he is a bad defender, or he’s bad because he hasn’t been given enough playing time at one position – ideally SS since that’s his natural position – to hone his craft. Gardner is young, too, but he hasn’t hit for average or power and he’s a fourth outfielder if he doesn’t post good enough OBP for his speed (to me bare minimum .340.) Phelps showed something but I don’t think the Yanks should hand him the fifth starter job – ditto for Nova or Adam Warren.

    A.J. Pierzynski posted 27 HR and 77 RBI as a catcher at age 35 this season. I want the Yanks to sign him over Martin because while Martin is 5 or 6 years younger than Pierzynski and smacked 21 HR, Martin also hit only .211 with an OBP just over .300 and that is why I am against re-signing him to more than two years. What if he posts around that with far less homeruns (say only 8-12 HR a year)? Then he’d be an overpaid backup or platoon catcher. I’d be happy with Martin for two more years at say $8M per year/ $16M total, but I think he’ll want at least three years and $9M a year because of his power, defense, and age (he’d be 32-33 at the end of a three-year contract.) I don’t think he’s worth the years or money.

    Swisher is a half-decade or so younger than Ichiro but Ichiro is a better defender than Swisher.

    Age is overrated.

  • Duh Innings

    Correction: Pettitte was the oldest player on the Yanks after Mo got injured, unless Ibanez was.

  • Fin

    For fuck sakes, lets get the minor league system to produce a second every day player after Austin Jackson. I mean really Cano is going into his 10th year and hes the last every day player that came through this shitty Yankee system.

    There is no every day player above low A ball that scouts even care about. This Yankee minor league system has been about as bad as it gets for every day players. Jeter (almost 20yrs) Cano (almost 10yrs) and Austin Jackson is what the Yankees have produced in the last 20 for every day players. You arent going to keep winning, while reducing payroll to a decade past level with that formula.

    • Ted Nelson

      Hahahahahahaha… The irony of you bashing a system you know nothing about is just too much… No one above Low A? What are you talking about? Austin, Flores, and Heathcott are in AA, Mason and Sanchez are in A+, Romine, CoJo, and Adams are in AAA… LOL.

      There’s that Gardner guy who started for that Yankees team for a few years. There’s that one Melky Cabrera guy who was an MVP candidate earlier this year. That Montero guy who started all year in Seattle. Tababta who has started for several years in Pittsburgh, some of them quite good years.

      Nice try, but maybe next time we should deal with reality and not your fantasy.

  • DannySmooth

    I would love to see Josh Hamilton be the starting centerfielder for us next year. If I’m not mistaken, I believe he is a free agent now and the yanks should trade granderson. Granderson should get us a really good player in return or two very decent ones at least. I know the yanks have a budget in mind and Hamilton would cost a lot of money, but with swish leaving it shouldn’t be too bad. What do y’all think?

  • Dan

    This comment was a joke, “Getting younger for the Yankees means acquiring players in the primes of their careers, so 27, 28, 29 years old. Something like that. Going any younger than that almost always means getting worse first, and there’s no reason to do that.” There is plenty of reason to do that:

    1) As already stated, getting younger can help this team become a less one dimensional offense.
    2) It would also mean less money spent towards players.
    3) How has signing players in their prime to long term contracts worked out for them overall? Yes, there have been some quality signings, but do you really want more contracts to handcuff them?

    Do I think that the Yankees need to go the route of the red sox in rebuilding? No, but to say that the Yankees shouldn’t look to sign players younger than 27 is absolutely ludicrous.