Nov
19

Monday Night Open Thread

By

The slow early-offseason for the Yankees continued with no moves today, but that will definitely change tomorrow. Tuesday is the deadline for teams to set their 40-man roster for next month’s Rule 5 Draft, and the two most prominent prospects New York must protect are right-hander Brett Marshall and left-hander Nik Turley. It’s also possible that lefty Manny Banuelos will need to be protected as well, but don’t hold me to that. It’s tough to figure out when some of the international guys are Rule 5 eligible because we don’t know the exact date they signed. The Yankees have seven open 40-man spots right now but they won’t use them all for prospects. They still have to bring in a right fielder, a catcher, at least one starter, and most of a bench. The 40-man is clogged up with enough fringy prospects as it is.

Anyway, here is your open thread for the night. The Bears and 49ers are your Monday Night Football game, plus there’s various NBA action as well. Still no NHL games though because everyone involved in that mess is dumb. Talk about whatever you like here, enjoy.

Categories : Open Thread

86 Comments»

  1. pat says:

    Was just thinking about The Throw yesterday. Nicely done, Axisa.

  2. Beer Drinker Big Stinkers says:

    Fox News/YES

  3. Jersey Joe says:

    Out of Nate Schierholtz, Brennan Boesch, Ryan Raburn, Conor Jackson, Ryan Sweeney, and Kyle Blanks, which 2 bounceback candidates would you pair together to make a platoon in either right field or left field.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      I’d take Schierholtz over any of the other two combined. Blanks ain’t no outfielder. If he can’t play first, he might as well play defensive end.

    • MannyGeee says:

      That sure is a list of bum outs… I lean towards Scheirholtz or Jackson, and meh to the rest.

      • Preston says:

        Conor Jackson was legitimately good once, he was really unlucky, the valley fever ruined his career. But at this point I think he’s pretty done, and he wasn’t ever a very good OFer. Blanks is not an OFer at all, Rayburn is a mess, and I think Ryan Sweeney bounces back, but even so is he really an upgrade over Dickerson? If Boesch became available I’d like him in the Ibanez role. Nate Scheirholtz would definitely be the best option for a guy to actually play the OF.

  4. Jersey Joe says:

    I am very opposed to signing Ibanez. Not enough potential performance, I’d much rather go with Carlos Pena at DH/spot starter at 1st.

    • Cris Pengiucci says:

      I’m pretty open to any LH bat that can produce some power and is willing to take a reasonable ($2mm or so) 1-year contract. I don’t think this player is going to make or break the team. However, position flexibility should be part of the equation. While he wasn’t exactly good, Ibanez certainly played plenty of OF last year.

      • jjyank says:

        Agreed. I think Ibanez’s positional flexibility gives him an edge. I’d prefer to have a platoon DH/bench guy that can fake the OF when needed over a guy who can play only 1B. I know Pena is a good fielder there, but a replacement 1B will be easier to find if Tex gets hurt than an OF will be.

        • Preston says:

          Carlos Pena will probably get a starting 1B job. He walks, hits for power and fields well. Somebody with a 1B vacancy (Boston, Toronto, Cleveland) will pick him up and he will probably get paid a lot more than Ibanez. I personally would like to roll the dice on Travis Hafner positional flexibility be damned. He would mash RHP in YS.

          • jjyank says:

            I feel ya, but the problem with a DH only type like Hafner was highlighted this past year. Ibanez was supposed to be a DH/bench guy. Then we lost Garnder, and he became a left fielder. I’m not opposed to a Hafner type, but I do think someone who can play the field in a pinch should have an edge.

            • Preston says:

              Well my thought on it is what is the point of the depth we have in AAA if we don’t use it. I think the Yankees would have been much better cutting Jones and bringing up Dickerson to replace Gardner and keeping Ibanez at the DH last season. The problem this season was we had two DH type OFers on the bench. One of whom was league average on offense and the other substantially worse. At least with Hafner you know that if he’s healthy he hits. If he’s not, he’s not on the roster. So he wouldn’t be a wasted roster spot, he’d be playing against RHP and the emergency 1B on the bench against LHP. I see the other side of it, but I hate watching a league average hitter get a lot of AB’s at DH.

              • jjyank says:

                That’s fair. I wouldn’t be opposed to that route. My main concern is the Yankees getting involved in a multi-year commitment. So if they avoid that for this roster spot, I will have little problem with it.

    • Steve (different one) says:

      If Pena put up the same numbers last year in NY, would you be arguing to bring him back?

    • RetroRob says:

      The word potential and Carlos Pena no longer go together.

      Last year Ibanez had a higher wRC+, higher OPS+ and higher fWAR than Pena, despite the fact that Pena drove a decent part of his WAR off of remaining a fine fielding 1B’man, a skill that won’t be used all that much on the Yankees.

      It’s possible Pena will outhit Ibanez, but certainly not enough to be “very opposed.” Don’t want Pena’s 180+ strikeouts in the Yankee lineup either, giving them two high-whiff players in Grandy and Pena.

    • forensic says:

      I don’t really want to risk a second year of Ibanez, but Pena doesn’t really solve the issue either.

  5. ThatstheMelkyMesaWaysa says:

    Gregorovich Golson was the Melky Mesa of yesteryesteryear

  6. Preston says:

    Can a team claim Banuelos? he’s likely to miss most of the season, so he can’t break camp on the 25 man. If I understand how this works, he would have only a rehab assignment in the minors and then he’d have to be with the major league club right? I guess if you were the Astros it would be a great way to get a really good pitching prospect. It’s not like you’re going to be competitive or there is somebody better filling up your rotation/bullpen spots. Better protect him.

    • jjyank says:

      I won’t pretend to know how all that works, but I will be confident that the Yankees ensure than Banuelos goes nowhere next year.

    • RetroRob says:

      If anyone can claim him then the Yankees better protect Manny. A team like the Houston Astros could easily have him take up a 40-man roster spot this year, and then have him rebuild on the MLB level next year. They’re not going anywhere so they can afford to absorb the lumps that will go with a rehabbing Banuelos. At least he brings upside, unlike most of their current roster.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Is he eligible?

  7. MannyGeee says:

    Any guesses where BJ Upton goes?

    I can’t imagine he’s gonna make a mint this off season considering he hasn’t been ‘Crawford leaving Tampa’ good, but shit… Who saw Melky getting $8M per after last seasons PED suspension?

    I guess, gun to my head, I am going Atlanta at 4/56. Which means by logic Swisher is an 18M outfielder using the same twisted math.

    • forensic says:

      I say Philly.

      • Preston says:

        I definitely see him in the NL East, The Phillies, Braves and Nationals all seem to want him. I think we’ll all be surprised by how high his price tag goes.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      Upton has to get more than Swisher. He’s young and is excellent defensively at a much more important positin.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

        He’s also a fair bit worse than Swisher offensively. I think Upton will wind up with more years, but similar or slightly lower AAV.

      • Preston says:

        But he’s a worse hitter, which is the most important way a position player contributes to their team. Swisher’s wRC+ over the last four seasons have been 125, 135, 124, 128, Upton’s have been 85, 107, 113, 107. Even accounting for positional difference/baserunning WAR has Upton at 13.9 over those four years with Swisher at 15. Now that is way to close for WAR to be conclusive, but I think Swisher’s bat is definitely the better bet. Especially since if at some point Upton isn’t a CF Upton becomes a pretty useless player while Swisher could hit enough to be an adequate 1b/DH option.

  8. Pat D says:

    I’m so looking forward to a NewsCorp-owned Yankees franchise.

    I mean, they did such a great job running the Dodgers.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      This would be about as good for the Yankees as way back when the the Dolans wanted to buy them. I hope Zombie George comes back from the grave and takes out his 2 sons if they sell to Ruppert fucking Murdoch.

      • McLovin says:

        Imagine James Dolan owning the Yankees, we would all be crying everyday.

      • Buhner's barber says:

        On the plus side, with their email hacking abilities, we’ll know about any potential moves in free agency before they happen.

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        It all feels like much to do about nothing. So they possibly wind up owning most of the YES Network in a few years. That’s still not owning the New York Yankees.

        If they replace Meredith Marakovitz with Ann Coulter, though, I may have to hurt someone.

        • jjyank says:

          And that someone would be Ann Coulter.

        • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

          Why would you hold onto the team if you’re selling off the cash cow YES. Network, probably one of if not the biggest sources of revenue.

          I could see taking them on as a partner but the reports that they have options to acquire as much as 80% sounds like the Steinbrenners are gonna cash out their Chips.

          • Robinson Tilapia says:

            I’m a social worker, not a financial expert.

            Like I said in the last thread, this is all reading tea leaves.

          • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

            A possible alternate scenario:

            IF the Yankees broadcast rights agreement with YES is expiring in the somewhat near future, the Yankees may see all of the massive TV deals other teams are signing as an opportunity to greatly increase the payments they receive from YES, which would make YES slightly less of a cash cow and the Yankees team more of a cash cow. In this scenario, it would make some sense for the Yankees to lessen their stake in YES while still keeping the team, as YES would become less profitable and they should be able to fetch a higher price for some/all of their stake in YES sooner rather than later.

            • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

              Hope you’re right. I doubt it would be good for the team to be owned by a bug media conglomerate.

              • RetroRob says:

                Worked well back in the 1960s. Yikes.

                All that appears to be happening so far is the other owners of YES are selling their shares. The Yankees may reduce theirs in the future, but it’s all guess work.

                On the other hand, bringing in Newscorp will enhance the value of YES because they’re expects at cable and programming. This could simply be Hal (and Levine) maximizing the value of their assets. Doesn’t mean their selling anything.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            There’s an argument that the Yankees org has no business operating a TV station and should be profiting off the bidding for their TV rights rather than running a TV station. Let a media company run the TV station.

            • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

              “There’s an argument that the Yankees org has no business operating a TV station and should be profiting off the bidding for their TV rights rather than running a TV station”

              Did you make up that argument or are you just being your normal contrarian self because it seems the ownership of the Yankees-YES network, Mets-Sportsnet NY and Red Sox-NESN disagree with you as they all own large shares in their regional TV networks. It also seems the Dodgers will soon be following their lead as well.

              From what I’ve read, that is the most lucrative way for a team to maximize its TV revenue though not without risk.

              http://online.wsj.com/article/.....37758.html

              • Reuben Sierra's Chains says:

                The latter as always.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                Are you serious? Did I make up a basic tenant of business strategy?

                • vicki says:

                  the most basic of lessees. ever.

                  ps. try addressing people with a modicum of respect and your arguments will be better heard. unless the idea isn’t to make points, rather to rile and repel. in which case, carry on.

              • MannyGeee says:

                Also, its not like Randy Levine is moonlighting as a Program Director.

                The Yankees make significantly more money hiring “Media People” to run their Media Outlets, just like they would hire “Property People” manage their properties, and “Marketing People” to manage their marketing, etc etc than they would by letting another company profit from their namesake and product.

  9. McLovin says:

    I miss Greg Golson and also Chad Huffman, went to a Yankee game and Chad made a diving catch at the warning track. One of the best plays I saw.

  10. The Moral Majority is Neither says:

    Renember the Yankees turned Brian Bruney into the #1 pick in the Rule 5 draft. Jamie Hoffman didn’t follow in the footsteps of Johan Santana, Josh Hamilton, Uggla, Soria, Victorino, but it was exciting to have the first pick.

    • MannyGeee says:

      In fairness, they did turn Bruney into a useful bullpen piece. While not in the same breathas Hamilton or Johan, this is in the spirit of what the Rule 5 draft is all about: putting guys out there to get a chance in the bigs instead of being career minor leaguers. They’re not all going to be a Victorino

    • Mike Axisa says:

      The Rule 5 Draft isn’t what it used to be. Once they added the extra year six years ago, it’s been a bore.

    • vicki says:

      brian bruney is a bamf.

  11. JLC 776 says:

    Man, more Yankee fans in the first 10 rows at the Trop at 1:23 (which is typical) than our own stadium on most nights nowadays!

  12. Havok9120 says:

    Aaaaaand now the Blue Jays have Melky Cabrara.

    AA is having quite the week. I wonder who decided that Now Is The Time.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      With the Red Sox somewhat rebuilding, and the Yankees aging and somewhat budget constrained, they may see now as a rare window of opportunity.

      The new CBA may play in as well, as the Blue Jays are going to start losing their revenue sharing money, and may have decided that they need to invest in the team to generate their own higher revenues.

      • Havok9120 says:

        Oh, I think that now certainly is the best time for the Jays/Rays/Orioles to try and spend some money and make a name for themselves. I’d just be curious to know who decided it and if anyone had to do any fire-lighting.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      I can’t count how many RAB GM of the year award AA has won already, yet his team has yet to finish above 4th place. I think he’s a good GM and this might be the year they finally improve, but at the same time I’m a bit jaded hearing people sing the guy’s praises every time he makes any move. Every move he’s made has been regarded as the best move ever, and he even gets credit for guys who were claimed off waivers from the Jays before he got there.

      • Havok9120 says:

        For the record I don’t know much about AA and haven’t paid enough attention to form opinions on The Trade yet. This is just one heck of a busy week for that organization, which is particularly interesting since the Winter Meetings are still on the horizon.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Wasn’t trying to call you out or anything, just so tired of hearing about how great the Jays are.

          • Get Phelps Up says:

            There’s a lot that could go right for them but it’s not crazy to envision a scenario where they get almost no value out of the trade and the Melky signing.

            • forensic says:

              But, if they get one year where they stay healthy and get some bounces, suddenly they’re the O’s of this year, or better, and I’d think that’s totally worth it to them.

              • Get Phelps Up says:

                Of course. But that’s a pretty big if.

                • forensic says:

                  Yeah, but there are some other pretty big If’s for the other teams in their division. For example: If Jeter recovers and finds the fountain of youth again, if A-Rod actually stays healthy and finds his power, If Rivera can recover from what is a far underrated issue at this point. And that doesn’t even mention the many holes in the roster right now, which are all If’s…

                  • Get Phelps Up says:

                    Then it’s a good thing that there’s still 132 days left to fix them.

                    • forensic says:

                      Sure is, but the tea leaves so far aren’t exactly inspiring. The Yankees will need some serious If’s to go their way, in my opinion, if things go as ‘rumored’ so far.

                    • Get Phelps Up says:

                      To each their own, but to me it feels like every other November. The Yankees almost never do anything significant.

                  • Ted Nelson says:

                    Not all “ifs” are the same. We have to consider expectations. The Yankees “ifs” are the most likely case scenarios. The Jays “ifs” are not. The Jays are counting on vets to maintain career years and young guys to break out. The Yankees are just counting on guys doing what they have done for years. And we as fans are counting on them filling holes with above replacement guys. The Yankees are already projected to win 88 games without filling any of those holes.

                    It certainly can happen to any player, but for all of their vets to fall off a cliff in the same season is just not likely. For Jeter and Mo not to recover from standard injuries is unlikely. A-Rod has gotten hurt every year recently (freak injury last season, not likely to have been caused by age) and the Yankees have still been making the playoffs.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                You can say that about a whole lot of teams. In fact, people have been saying that about the Jays for a few years now.

                You can say it about the Rays and Os as well in this division, and maybe even Boston if they bring in a few good FAs.

                I’m not saying these were bad moves for the Jays, I’m just saying that almost everything has to go right for them to win 20+ more games next season. It’s not rational to judge a team based on almost the best case scenario. The most likely case has the Jays being worse than the Yankees, yet everyday on here people are crying about how the Jays are better than the Yankees. They got better to the point where their better case outcomes overlap with the Yankees most likely outcome and certainly worst case outcomes.

    • MannyGeee says:

      Yeah… we’ve been waiting for the Jays to be really good for a long time now. Not sure if trading away some REAL good young pieces for a core of players who couldn’t get it done in Miami (in a significantly easier division, mind you) and rolling the dice on a guy who magically found his stroke 12 months before getting popped for PEDs is enough to get you over the hump.

      Also, I have reminded you all in other threads, but it is a cautionary tale. Rings are not won in January (or November, as it were). Ask Eric Ortiz:

      http://nesn.com/2011/01/2011-r.....e-history/

  13. forensic says:

    In reading through a ton of pages to try to find out if Banuelos is eligible I found this little nugget from the start of ST this year:

    Deep in one corner of the clubhouse is Sabathia’s locker. To Sabathia’s left is Michael Pineda. To Sabathia’s right is Banuelos.

    Guess we know who no one wants to locker beside next ST.

    As far as the rule 5 draft, everyone seemed to go to great pains last year to mention that he’s not yet eligible, which kind of makes me think he was on the border and he is now eligible, but again that’s just a guess.

  14. forensic says:

    You always mention the ‘Pro’ sports (though the NHL being thrown in there is a stretch at this point) and sometimes mention College Football, but how about College Basketball?

    It’s so much better than the schmucks in the NBA since they aren’t quite at that conceited level yet and there are so many different games something cool can always happen. This week with the daytime games still going, just look at the Maui Invitational. Butler wins on a crazy 3 at the buzzer, UNC wins by 46, and then Chaminade gets the crazy upset beating Texas (pretty easily too) to run their record to 7-76 all-time in the tournament.

    Come on, give CBB some love…

  15. Rocky Road Redemption says:

    So. Tams-Witmark are fuckers. Music Theatre International let me call and get a quick quote on the approximate cost of the licensing for the show. Tams-Witmark? No, I have to fucking send in a form and wait. I have no time to wait. I’ll have to start fundraising before I know the cost of the show we’re doing.

    Dammit guys.

    • vicki says:

      not for nothing, but somebody wrote the musical you’re trying to secure rights to. just because scott boras is a dick doesn’t mean his clients haven’t earned their payday.

      having said that, i never paid royalties for any property i produced in the provinces. back when. but if you’re in new york, toe the line.

  16. There's the Door says:

    The Steinbrenner lads should sell on the day ARod’s contract runs out, and they should all leave town in the same van.

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