Nov
29

Rosenthal: Pirates to sign Russell Martin

By

9:54pm: The Yankees told Martin they didn’t have the cash to match Pittsburgh’s offer according to Waldstein. That’s rich.

9:07pm: Buster Olney says the Yankees never did make an offer, so I guess they just discussed a two-year deal worth $12-14M. The team hasn’t made any offers to any free agent position players this winter.

8:40pm: David Waldstein says it’s a two-year, $17M deal. Hard to believe the Yankees didn’t match that. Jon Heyman says they only offered two years at $12-14M.

8:29pm: The Yankees will have a new starting catcher next season. Ken Rosenthal reports that Russell Martin has agreed to sign with the Pirates, though the contract terms are unknown. The Pittsburgh Pirates outbid the New York Yankees for a free agent. Ain’t that something.

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League

422 Comments»

  1. Lance says:

    Well. Shit.

  2. ThatstheMelkyMesaWaysa says:

    There’s gotta be someone better than Russ. Jorge Posada for example.

  3. Need Pitching & Hitting says:

    He was probably the best available option, but it’s hard to get upset at losing Martin.

  4. kevin w. says:

    well isn’t that some shit. no clue what they’re going to do back there now.

  5. Rey22 says:

    Well that was unexpected. Still, putting things into perspective, Martin was awful the entire year except September. I guess it depends on how much the contract is, but if it was 9+M over 3 or 4 years, I’d rather see him go. Cashman has serious work to do.

  6. byebye says:

    Martin and AJ back together…..watch martin have a monster year. Im feeling a 120 wRC

  7. vin says:

    Good news followed by bad news. I still would’ve given him a qualifying offer.

  8. Rich in NJ says:

    If he wasn’t willing to sign a one year deal, this is great news, although the Yankees should have made a qualifying offer.

  9. Knoxvillain says:

    Well. Didn’t see that coming. The catching market sucks, too. It should make for an interesting offseason.

  10. Knoxvillain says:

    So, Montero to the Yankees, right?

  11. MB923 says:

    Just read it’s 2 year/$17 million

  12. Buhner's barber says:

    So what now? Cervelli/Stewart and hope to god that Romine becomes a good hitter?

    • Knoxvillain says:

      I find it hard to believe they do that. They’re gonna have to try and find someone. Maybe they can try to pry away Arencibia from Toronto. I know it would be tough because they are both in the same division, but nobody worth anything is available. At least Arencibia is young and has some power. And he’s cheap.

      • Laz says:

        Arenciba will be 27 and has a .233/.275/.435 slash line. anyone that complains about Martin’s hitting would have a heart attack.

        Wouldn’t say he is that young, hard to think that a tandem of Cervelli/Romine would do any worse. Even Stewart has a higher career obp.

    • Eastside Cropper says:

      I hope they bring Cervelli up. He did do a fair job when he was the backup. His bat came alive last year at the end of the spring training, but then they sent him to Scranton. Stewart is ok, but I like Cervelli better. Martin was a good defensive catcher and pretty much threw out base stealers. His reflexes were good. Will miss him.

  13. DZ says:

    They’ve got to go out and try to get napoli at this point right? Or maybe make a trade for someone like jaso?

    • Knoxvillain says:

      No Napoli. I’d love Jaso but he would probably cost an arm and a leg because he’s Seattle’s only above average hitter.

    • Get Phelps Up says:

      Napoli’s no catcher.

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        I don’t know where the Martin defenses went but I’ll just use one of those except replace the name with Napoli.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

          Huh?
          They are nothing alike.

          • JobaWockeeZ says:

            How about, “catcher sucks so sign any one that can provide decent value.”

            People almost made it seem like Martin’s elite. Napoli isn’t good too but if Napoli’s no good then Martin also isn’t good since they had the same WAR.

            On the flip side if Martin is considered really good then Napoli has to come close.

            • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

              Martin is about average overall for a starting catcher.
              Napoli isn’t a starting catcher. He’s never started more than 84 games at C in a season (and fewer than 70 in each of the past 3 years).
              If Napoli was providing that performance while catching 120+ games in a season, you’d have a point.
              Napoli is only a part-time C. They can sign Napoli. They’d still have to find a primary C.
              Martin and Napoli are nothing alike.

            • Get Phelps Up says:

              Martin’s also an everyday catcher which is what the Yankees need. Napoli isn’t.

  14. KenC says:

    montero trade looking good

  15. DZ says:

    2/17, if cash didn’t want to match that, he had to have known something, or have a move he’s working on. Because that’s a pretty descent deal with a thin catchers market

  16. Tony says:

    AJ Pierzynski’s agent is on the phone with Cashman right now.

  17. ClayDavis says:

    Any 43 year olds available for a one year deal?

  18. S says:

    Martin is pretty awful. Even at 2/17 he’s overpaid. Great non-move by Cashman.

  19. CC Sabathia says:

    Oh bummer but i can deal with it.

  20. Rich in NJ says:

    I think two years at any price was too much, but props to Cashman. He apparently understands Martin’s limited value given the upcoming austerity budget.

  21. Benicio Del Toro says:

    Ah screw it. Lets just bring up Sanchez. He can handle it…

  22. Stratman9652 says:

    Shame, really liked Russ. The hell does Cash have up his sleeve?

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      Maybe nothing. Gone are the days of buying above average players at every position.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        A. Cashman has made a ton of under the radar moves over the years as well. Martin being a great example.

        B. They’re still going to spend about as much money as anyone in baseball.

        • Juzzil says:

          They will spend as money because they have shitty legacy contracts. Putting things into perspective changes a lot.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            “They will spend as money”

            Not sure what that means.

            • toad says:

              It means he left out the word “much” between “as” and “money.” Aside from that typo, his point is solid.

              You can’t just look at the total payroll. You have to look at how much is being wasted as well.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                Yeah, I was. They will still spend a ton of money in new contracts between now and 2014. More than many teams spend on their entire roster.

  23. JJ says:

    so how’s pierzynski defensively?

    • Knoxvillain says:

      Probably not that great. I wouldn’t mind him on a 2/12 or something like that, but some team like Texas will give him a 3/40 after this contract year he just had.

    • MB923 says:

      Last year threw out 26% of runners (which seems low but it beat out Martin’s 24%). 8 passed balls allowed to Martin’s 9

      His defensive WAR was 0.2, Martin’s was 0.1, so just about even

      • RetroRob says:

        If you believe in the defensive rankings used for catchers. Most don’t, including sabermetric types. Martin is regarded as a solid/plus defender. AJ less so.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        That captures a small portion of a Cs defensive value. Steals are as much about the P as the C, often more so. PBs are a subjective scorer stat. A lot of C value comes from getting strikes/outs through framing and game calling.

  24. Manimal says:

    Not that upset… he will be traded back to the yanks mid season if the yanks replacement is sucking that bad

    • Preston says:

      And it wouldn’t upset you to trade minor league pieces for a player we could have had in FA, and then pay him the same money we refused to pay him a few months earlier? I’m sorry, that would just be moronic.

  25. JMK says:

    Citing unnamed sources, Marchand says he hears $24 million on a three year deal.

  26. vin says:

    Hope Romine is ready.

  27. Get Phelps Up says:

    Cashman is totally planning something big if he wouldn’t match that.

    • Get Phelps Up says:

      On the other hand, I wonder if this increases the chance that they re-sign Swisher.

      • Rich in NJ says:

        If it was a choice between the two, then it’s a no brainer, but I’m skeptical given the 2014 budget, unless Granderson is getting traded.

        • Get Phelps Up says:

          Granderson’s a FA after next year. He won’t impact the 2014 budget.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

          Why would they have to trade Granderson to deal with the 2014 budget?
          He’ll be leaving as a free agent anyways.

          • Rich in NJ says:

            If you get young players for Granderson, it’s possible, depending on their level of development, that they could be ready in 2014, which can save money by having cost-controlled players thereby enabling money to be spent elsewhere.

            As for Swisher/Granderson, they still have a 2013 budget, and may not be able to keep both while filling out the remainder of the roster.

      • RetroRob says:

        Well, if they had $7M targeted for catcher, and another $7M for RF, then they can now afford a stronger (and more expensive) bat in RF. Still don’t think it opens the door for Swisher since that will require at least a four-year deal in the $15M per range, judging by the Upton contract.

    • forensic says:

      I just think they may have thought the production difference wasn’t worth the money difference. I’d be pretty surprised if they pulled something else big off involving a catcher.

  28. forensic says:

    I’m actually glad that they seemed to have stuck to their belief of his production/value and didn’t overpay. I know catchers around suck, but mostly so does Martin and his little better production isn’t really worth the lots of extra money.

    If you’re going to suck, at least do it cheaply.

  29. RetroRob says:

    Hmmmm, so much for people worried about 3/$24.

    Can’t wait for Plan B, or maybe if was always Plan A, to be revealed.

  30. Lester Munson says:

    Maybe they swing a deal with the Nats for Suzuki? No idea, seems silly not to match the pirates for 2 years/17

  31. Adam says:

    Some reports of 3/$24?

  32. stu phillips says:

    Sell the team.!!!!!!!!!!

  33. Big Member says:

    It’s okay. We’ll just send them a quality prospect package of Whitley and Tracy at the deadline.

    …any chance of McCann being available? Three team deal if Braves want to unite BJ with Justin?

  34. Simon says:

    This may not seem likely given Mauer’s recent health, but anyway just a suggestion, what about a trade involving Ryan Doumit from the Twins?

  35. Cuso says:

    Damn. Unfortunately, whoever our starting catcher is next year will definitely be worse.

    I know there was a lot of Russ-hate this year. I also know Russ was miserable offensively for most of the year Nor did his defense really turn heads.

    All that said, we’re going to be worse at the position no matter who gets signed.

    • Cuso says:

      missed a punctuation mark.

    • RetroRob says:

      Between RF and Catcher, the team is down about six wins, maybe more depending on how much weight you want to put into pitch framing and runs saved. Yet they’ve also freed up nearly $20M to close that gap before opening day.

    • MB923 says:

      “Damn. Unfortunately, whoever our starting catcher is next year will definitely be worse.”

      Not Pierzkniski. He’s about even defensively with Martin (throws out more base runners and had a higher defensive WAR, though not much)

      And the bats? Don’t get me started lol

      • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

        I’d be surprised if they went after Pierzynski.
        But for comparison sake, remember AJ is coming off a career year, unlikely to be repeated.
        Defensively: AJ’s DRS last 2 years: -14, Martin +1. Career AJ: -20, Martin +30.
        Offensively, before last year, AJ’s wRC+ ranged from 80 to a high of 93 over the previous 8 years. Martin hasn’t dipped below 87 in his career.

        AJ was much better in 2012, but before that, Martin was better offensively and much better defensively. And Martin is several years younger.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      I’ve supported Martin as much as anyone this season, but it’s just not the case that they will necessarily be worse next season. Wait to see who they get before deciding that.

      • Cuso says:

        I believe it was clear that I stated that they’d be worse “at catcher.”

        I wasn’t making sweeping statements about the team in general.

        The only way they get better (or equal) at catcher is via trade.

        How many teams trade viable every-day, starting catchers? Those are a luxury. And rarely if ever does a team have two.

        Only realistic trade partner is probably Washington for either Suzuki or Flores.

        It’s not like they’re going to take on high price catchers like Mauer with all the $$$ he has locked up. They’re looking for a one-year option.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Yeah, I read what you wrote. I was referring to C in my comment.

          Like I said, before you know who their C is you don’t know if he might be better. Soto, for example, might be DFA’d and put up a better fWAR season than Martin’s 2012 in just 2011. I don’t know if he can repeat 2012, but there is some talk that the Dodgers might trade Ellis. Napoli is a butcher back there, but some might argue that his offense at C for 1/2 a season with a reasonable back-up (Shoppach?) matches Martin’s production. Arencibia and Salty both may be available. Romine has the talent to start if healthy, though I’m not expecting a strong offensive season if he jumps from AA/the training room to MLB. There are other prospects they might trade for, just off the top of my head Valle is a possibility with Ruiz at C (no idea who they might want for him).

          None of those guys are locks to out-produce Martin (especially with his pitch framing), but they all have the potential to. If the Yankees have actually been scouting these guys and see reasons to be optimistic (bad luck, mechanical fix, etc) they might get comparable or better production at a cheaper price.

  36. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Ballsy but I can’t blame Cash. Maybe we really are letting the prospects show what they got.

    Either that or another old guy for one year.

    • Captain says:

      what prospects though? Sanchez is too young and does anyone really want Romine up in the majors after missing all of last season due to injury? and even if they call him up, still need a starting C.

  37. Big Member says:

    Wake up Jorge. We need you.

  38. Pat D says:

    Kind of pathetic that they couldn’t match or top that offer, even by a little.

    Can’t wait for the Cervelli/Stewart/Romine/steaming bowl of shit platoon.

    • forensic says:

      They’ll suck, but mostly so does Martin and they’ll do it for nearly $10 million less.

      Maybe it gives them extra money to improve elsewhere instead. Maybe it points out (IMO) that they likely overpaid on at least two of their three recent re-signings.

      • Pat D says:

        I don’t see how they’re improving elsewhere unless they make some big unexpected trade.

        I’m not sure that $10 million is worth the obvious sacrifice of production. Those guys might put up the same OBP but with nowhere near the slugging.

        • forensic says:

          Maybe they figure something other than Ichiro out in RF. maybe it gets them better righty OFer and/or extra IFer.

          I’m also not sold on martins slugging either. I agree they won’t match it, but I’m not sure he would necessarily match it either at something like a third of his homers were barely out (or whatever the exact terminology at hit tracker is), and a couple weren’t out of any park somehow, so I put some of that on luck and wonder what might happen next year.

          • forensic says:

            And yes, I know his slugging in 2011 was basically the same, but I still stand by my point.

            I know there’s a little more to it, but if the OBPs can get close and they play solid defense, martins extra 15 or so ABs where he may sneak one out aren’t quite worth an extra $10 million in my opinion.

      • RetroRob says:

        Martin was a catcher who could hit HRs, draw walks and was a very solid receiver. The gap between Marting and the shit platoon is quite significant.

        • forensic says:

          If you compare the OPS#, wOBA, and/or wRC+ of Martin and Cervelli, you may be surprised at how comparable they are. Martin has the slight advantage in 2011 while Cervelli had the slight advantage in 2010. Martin’s bit more walks are a bit offset by Cervelli’s typically higher BA and little better putting the ball in play ability. He won’t match the power, but those extra 15 or so AB’s aren’t the only thing that matters.

          If Cervelli can play alright defense, he could come somewhat close to Martin’s production, and for a significantly lower price tag. I know Cervelli was pretty bad last year in AAA, and maybe he doesn’t recover from that, and maybe he’s further exposed by extra playing time, but maybe it’s also worth the significant savings anyway.

          • forensic says:

            That should be OPS+ obviously.

          • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

            Cervelli’s ability to play alright defense and not getting exposed by extra playing time are both huge if’s.
            It might work out OK with the internal options only being a relatively minor downgrade.

            It might also be a disaster.

            I would hope if they are going to go with the internal options, they offset that by upgrading elsewhere.

  39. JJ says:

    i just hope this doesn’t mean they’re all in on napoli. just doesn’t seem like a good fit, especially if he needs to catch everyday

  40. Steve says:

    He was just too young. Everyone knows this

  41. Karl Krawfid says:

    This has Joe Mauer to the Yankees written all over it.

    Easier to let Cano walk.

    • forensic says:

      Other team executives have said the Twins have told them they’re not trading Mauer, and they don’t really seem to have a reason to trade him anyway. His contract is pretty bad, but he’s their whole team and identity in the sport and the city.

    • pat says:

      That’s the short term flexible contract we need.

  42. Nick_BD says:

    Buster Olney ?saying Yankees never made an offer to Martin.

  43. Harris says:

    Please tell me the Dodgers sign Pierzynski, allowing us to swoop up A.J. Ellis!!

  44. CC Sabathia says:

    Bring up sanchez

  45. J pineda says:

    Hughes for Jaso
    Do it cash.

  46. Wil Nieves #1 Fan says:

    Watch, I bet Martin wins 16 games next year.

  47. Betty Lizard says:

    Sad.
    Not completely inconsolable, since as a consolation prize I won’t have to scroll through the “I hate Russell Martin” posts. Oh sure, there will be plenty of “I hate/get rid of” posts, but at least they will have to be about another player.

  48. Oahoea says:

    Dodgers interested in Pierzynski? maybe cash takes a swing at ellis

  49. Now Batting says:

    Shouldn’t be too tough to find another .200 hitter.

  50. Bo Knows says:

    Meh, I’ve been through way too much to really give a flying flip about Martin. Oh well, thanks for the half great season (and the 1 1/2 seasons of WTF)

    and thanks for the good defense (which shouldn’t be too hard to find)

    so I guess a defensive first catcher will be priority

  51. Steve S says:

    So which one of these options would you guys prefer:
    1) Sign AJ Pierzynski
    2) Trade for John Jaso
    3) Trade for JP Arencebia (if Toronto would intradivison)
    4) Platoon with somebody and Kelly Shoppach
    5) Let Austin Romine and Frank Cervelli battle in ST for it

    • Get Phelps Up says:

      Jaso isn’t really an everyday catcher but he’d be a perfect guy to platoon with Shoppach.

      • Steve S says:

        Excellent call, just looked at his splits. What do you think the asking price on Jaso would be? He’s under control til 2016 according to B-R.

        They should try to get Shoppach on a 2-year deal with a team option for a third. He would not cost a fortune (David Ross is a comparable, and he got 2/8.) So say 2/9 for Shoppach with the third being for 4.5M. Platoon him with Jaso, whose arb prices won’t be too high. That gives you great offensive prodution from the catcher spot.
        Shoppach v. L career: .868 OPS
        Jaso v R career: .789 OPS with .368 OBP.

        Rays are looking for young pitching. I think they would want a guy like David Phelps. He’s certainly capable of a 4.50 ERA next year, with potential (I could see him working with Andy Pettitte incredibly useful), and cost controlled. MAYBE, they see value in Eduardo Nunez, but Nunez alone would not be enough. I bet they would be interested in Corban Joseph or David Adams also.

        Opinions?

        • FIPster Doofus says:

          Jaso is on the Mariners.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

          Jaso is a relatively young, relatively cheap, good hitter with 3 years of team control on a team desperate for offense. Seems that Jaso is more the type of player the Mariners would be trying to acquire than trying to trade, unless they were getting other young, cheap, MLB ready good hitters with years of team control in return, which the Yankees don’t really have to offer.

          • Steve S says:

            David Adams or Corban Joseph?

            • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

              For Seattle’s best hitter who can also catch?

              I’d think they’d want a lot higher level prospect than Adams or Joseph.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                Yeah, they caught Miguel Olivo and Montero both ahead of Jaso. I also don’t know that he’s actually a .372 wOBA hitter. I agree that the Ms aren’t too likely to part with him unless someone overpays a bit, but let’s not get carried away about how good Jaso is.

                • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

                  Is he not their best hitter? Even at just his career numbers?
                  Did he not also catch?

                  I never said he was a primary catcher.
                  I never said he was a superstar.
                  But with 3 years of control left, as a player they would presumably want to keep, even if primarily as a DH, I’d imagine it’s going to take a lot more than Adams or Joseph to attain him, if he’d even be made available. Seattle needs to add offense, not lose it.

                  • Ted Nelson says:

                    I said that I agree they aren’t likely to give him away.

                    I don’t think they’d take Adams straight up, but Adams is probably the caliber of prospect who would headline a market value deal for Jaso. He’s an MLB-ready 2B/3B who projects to be a solid starter if healthy. The health is an issue, but if it weren’t I’m not sure the Yankees would be offering him for Jaso. This is a guy who was traded by “the smartest team in baseball” last offseason for Josh Lueke.

                    The Ms have to consider the value of Jaso vs. the value of the package they receive. Doesn’t matter if he’s their best hitter. Certainly was last year. We’ll see going forward.

                    • Gonzo says:

                      He’s an MLB-ready 2B/3B who projects to be a solid starter if healthy.

                      Is that an opinion or a fact?

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Clearly it’s not a fact, but it is the consensus.

                    • Gonzo says:

                      Who’s consensus?

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Do you really deny that a healthy Adams projected to be an average 2B? The average starting 2B is somewhere around Darwin Barney: http://www.fangraphs.com/leade.....;players=0. Jose Altuve isn’t far from average, Jason Kipnis was above the average. 3B obviously hit better as a group, but you’ve still got guys in the low .300 wOBA who are around average starters: http://www.fangraphs.com/leade.....;players=0

                      Adams missed almost two seasons, but when he’s played he’s done nothing but rake at every level up to AA/AzFL. He was actively being pursued in trade talks by other teams. I don’t think projecting him for a wOBA around .310 is particularly aggressive. I would actually call that quite conservative. I’m not holding him up to a particularly high standard here.

                      I don’t know if you’re being a dick, don’t know who David Adams is, or seriously overestimate the IF talent in MLB…

                    • Gonzo says:

                      I’m not being a dick. Trust me. You said consensus. I’m actually curious who the consensus is because I don’t think that highly of Adams (yes, I know who he is) and reading what the consensus says might make me rethink it.

                      You brought up Altuve. Altuve is 3 years younger than Adams and reached AA at 21. David Adams hit AA at 25.

                    • forensic says:

                      Regardless of what Adams or Joseph project to, it’s likely less than what Ackley projected to a year or two ago and I don’t see them showing that they’ve given up on him, even after his one putrid year.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Gonzo – Adams hit AA at 23 (as an NCAA guy). Then he got hurt. He was a guy that was getting some top 100 caliber buzz when he shred his ankle. The sort of guy who was exceeding expectations and people were sort of waiting for a bigger sample at higher levels, which he was starting to deliver in AA when hurt. He’s largely re-established the high level of performance in AA and AzFL again, so I think people are somewhat back on the bandwagon (*if healthy). If, hypothetically, he never gets hurt I have to imagine that his value would either be much higher or much lower at this point(maybe not on the Yankees…), as he was tearing up AA in 2010 and likely would have gotten a chance to sink or swim in MLB by now-ish. Of course, he did get hurt. He’s not a stud prospect right now, but he’s an MLB ready-ish prospect with above average/average potential at two fairly premium positions (2B/3B). Teams might balk at the ankle (no idea what the medical report is), but in dealing Jaso I don’t know if the Ms will get a ton more than that as a headliner.

                      Altuve is just one name (he does have potential, but he neither hits nor fields particularly well at this point). The point is that being a league average starting 2B isn’t a terribly high offensive bar. Check out the fangraphs list.

                      forensic – Some people consider Ackley a CF long-term. The Mariners were looking to take Adams in a trade when Ackley was already in AA, so I think they may be open to switching their positions… not that I think a Jaso for Adams deal is happening. It’s just a hypothetical. We started talking about the level of prospect they would be looking for, not the exact prospect.

                    • Gonzo says:

                      I still don’t get who this “consensus” and “people” are.

                      Who’s back on the bandwagon? Who was was the consensus on the bandwagon to begin with?

                    • Gonzo says:

                      And I’m sorry, you should never use AZL numbers. Especially for a 25 year old college guy.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      You don’t know who the main media players covering prospects are?

                      You can’t use AzFL numbers to verify that a recovering player is healthy and sharp?

                      Get a life. It’s funny that you are trolling me and still can’t even trip me up.

                    • Gonzo says:

                      Dude, I know who the main media players are. I haven’t heard them get back on the Adams bandwagon. Dude, if it’s just your opinion that’s fine. Just admit then.

                      I honestly want to know who is on the Adams bandwagon. If you don’t know, you don’t know.

                    • Gonzo says:

                      By the way, the consensus says your wrong about what you think the consensus is saying. I refuse to back it up because you know all the writers and usual suspects, right?

              • GT Yankee says:

                Isn’t Adams and his injury issues the player that held up the Cliff Lee deal? Wonder if the Jack Z. would look to revisit.

        • Deep Thoughts says:

          Adios Nunie. They still need cost-controlled righty bats.

    • FIPster Doofus says:

      Two or four, whichever is easier.

    • Wil Nieves #1 Fan says:

      Arencebia was traded to the Miami Giancarlos.

  52. Total Dominication says:

    So, um, are there other catchers on the market?

  53. OldYanksFan says:

    Guess what?
    Martin has a significantly higher career average bWAR than B.J. Upton.

  54. Worried Fan says:

    Martin was too young for the Yankees to go after. They need a more seasoned catcher. I think Johnny Bench may be available, probably could get him very cheap too.

  55. MC10 says:

    Little surprised that so many on here don’t consider Romine a legitimate option. He may not be the starter, but I’m content with Stewart and Romine opening day. This kid is still a very good catcher. You can augment this as time goes. Cervelli, that crazy bastard, is back in AAA and backup. Whiteside also might still be in the fold with the way the Yanks arranged that contract, even if DA’d.

    Who knows, maybe Cashman hasn’t made offers to free agents because he has something up his sleeve. Romine can’t hit, but that becomes irrelevant if Cashman trades for a Justin Upton like player. Who knows who he could go after, but it is a little odd that the Yanks didn’t put an offer on the table for Martin. Somethings up..

    Napoli is not happening. He doesn’t even make sense for the team. We can move on from that one.

    • Oahoea says:

      Maybe becuase romine only had 100 AB’s last season to go along with 6 months of rehabbing a back injury last season

      • MC10 says:

        Maybe we should wait to see how he is doing before we rule him out completely. Last I read, he was completely rehabilitated. I think its safe to say the Yanks know more then we do and they’re obviously confident about something. This is un-Yankee like to miss out on a guy over $1mm-$2mm, especially when you’re talking multiple years for less than $20mm total. A productive MLB’r nonetheless and technically, the most complete free agent catcher on the market this offseason and a known quantity for the Yanks. They just flat out passed it sounds like and there has to be good reason.

        • Oahoea says:

          and i could almost guarantee you that’s not because they expect romine to be the starting catcher next season.

          The guy has a .197/.267/.342 line in 76 ABs above AA

        • Robinson Tilapia says:

          Back issues and catchers aren’t the best mix. It should give the team significant pause when considering Romine as a longterm option.

          • MannyGeee (189M or bust, bitches!) says:

            Is Romine the long term option, or the stopgap to the next long term option? Can he stay healthy enough till GAry Sanchez comes down from the heavens and does his best Berra/Posada/Piazza/Fisk impression…

            Or is Romine just the guy until we get through 2014, and then we see the Yankees sign Carlos Santana for 6/120?

            Whos to say?

  56. Wiljaq says:

    All the Yankees do these days is sign their ancient heroes circa 1996. Sad really. They used to be MLB Lions instead of wussies! I wonder what “The Boss” would say about the total lack of imagination that his conservative sons have.

  57. Neil says:

    Trade Granderson as part of a package for a catcher and a young corner outfielder. Involve three teams, and also dangle Nunez and Joba if needed. Time to be a creative GM Cashman.

    No way we sign Cano and Granderson next off-season. So lets get some return out of Granderson now.

    Sign Soria to a Madson type deal. And Sign Ichiro.

    RF Ichiro
    SS Jeter
    2B Cano
    DH Rodriguez
    1B Texiera
    3B Chavez
    (Outfielder)
    CF Gardner
    (Catcher)

    Cervelli
    Keppingeer
    Harriston
    Utility Player (middler infielder who can handle OF in emergency)

    You can still do well with these position players.
    Lets be honest how great do the #7 and #9 hitters need to be anyway?

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      When you have players who probably should be hitting 7-9 batting 1, 6, and 8, and a clean up hitter who is no longer a middle of the order hitter, they better be really good, or the team better be exceptional at run prevention.

    • Steve S says:

      I don’t see any other options available right now that I’d want to commit on, so I think Ichiro will probably come back. But I’d prefer them to wait as long as possible, seeing if any deals open up.

      A-Rod to DH is counterproductive as fielding is not his issue.

      I agree I’d like to lose Granderson, I just don’t see the Yankees wanting to make that move.

    • DT says:

      Trading Grandy when you are already lacking offense…genius

    • wilk says:

      okay, this all sounds fine.

      now find me a catcher and a good young outfielder that we can get for grandy.

    • MannyGeee (189M or bust, bitches!) says:

      “Lets be honest how great do the #7 and #9 hitters need to be anyway?”

      The closing line in a thread about our #7 hitter for most of the season signing elsewhere for a ton of scratch.

  58. The Lime says:

    What do you guys think it’d take to trade for Mesoraco? In my head, I’m thinking 1 out of the top 3 of our prospects, then another in the 4-8 range at a minimum, then a low B/ high C type prospect. Too little?

  59. Buhner's barber says:

    I feel like it has to be Doumit (which I am all for). Any clue what that would cost?

  60. jhan says:

    yankees need to make a deal wi the colorado team WILLIN ROSARIO I THE BEST CATCHER IN THE MAJOR LEAGUE

  61. thekid says:

    So we need catching- JP Arencibia? Would Nova or Phelps get the deal done?

  62. Brooklyn Nets says:

    Give up the farm for Stanton please. I won’t care who catches if he’s roaming RF.

  63. MB923 says:

    Assuming the Pirates don’t give up another big contract, their 2 highest paid players in 2013 will be Russell Martin and AJ Burnett

    McCutchen will only be making $4.5 million next year

  64. Brooklyn Nets says:

    Lol so the Yankees didn’t have the money to match. Makes me smile, actually.

  65. JW says:

    Re: Walstein’s comment — I’ve got to think it’s about plan $189 million and the second year of the deal. So if that’s true, the Yankees should have just given him the qualifying offer this year.

  66. Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM) says:

    This smells funny…I think we’ll see something really interesting come across the wire here within the next couple days now.

  67. Oahoea says:

    They didn’t have the cash to match the offer???????…is there 1/40MM deal for Hamilton being drawn up right now?

  68. The Real Eddard says:

    And that’s just fine. Too rich for the Yankees blood. If the Pirates want a .200 hitting catcher they can have him. Those are dime a dozen.

  69. Bob Buttons says:

    Random absurd prediction time: Yanks use the cash to re-sign Swisher or trade for David Wright.

  70. Rich in NJ says:

    It’s fine that they didn’t re-sign Martin, but they are rolling in money, especially after the News Corp. deal. If they don’t spend a bunch of it on an ongoing basis, they risk losing what George gifted off to his children.

  71. Wayne says:

    I would sign napoli split between him and stewart and cervelli and Eli whiteside

    • Cuso says:

      a four-way platoon, huh?

      guess we don’t need any back-up infielders/outfielders for the other positions fielded by four guys on the wrong side of 35 years old.

  72. Robinson Tilapia says:

    I look forward to seeing what’s behind door #2. There’s plenty of off-season left. Life’s tough, kids.

  73. Yankeefan says:

    Sign Pierzynski And Ronny Paulino and were set at catching start Pierzynski against righties and Paulino against lefties.

  74. Robinson Tilapia says:

    I will say that I am surprised that the tam wouldn’t match that two-year offer. I agree that they must either feel there’s a preferable, affordable option out there, or that they feel more comfortable with an internal option than we do.

    The next move will be an interesting one.

  75. BB says:

    All right Romine, now is your chance.

  76. Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

    There must be some Molina cousin or nephew available somewhere.

  77. Chesser says:

    Can someone explain why the Dodgers are going after AJ Pierzynski? AJ Ellis was very good offensively last year and their young backup, Tim Federowicz, is an OBP savant (for a catcher, at least). Are they that terrible defensively? If not, then shouldn’t we attempt to steal one of them away? Yes. Yes, we should.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      Maybe the think the rest of the NL doesn’t hate them enough and they want to bring the biggest douche in baseball to the team.

      They could sign Vincente Padilla and trade for Paplebon next.

    • forensic says:

      Assuming this is from the Heyman article, it doesn’t say they’re going after him. He asks if he might make sense for them, then spends the rest of the article saying many reasons it doesn’t make sense and quoting people who say its extremely unlikely.

      How people take that article and run with it saying they’re going after him is beyond me (and it’s not just you, so it’s not just against you, yours was just the last one to reply to).

    • MannyGeee (189M or bust, bitches!) says:

      Drunk sailor theory, man… spend it like you’ve got the AIDS its on fire. They don’t need him, but meh…

  78. asdf says:

    This is addition by subtraction, especially if the money not-spent is used to upgrade a different position (right field?). I love the move to let Martin walk; he is simply not a good player. The Pirates are burning money on a bad, declining player.

    • Cuso says:

      Martin > Cervelli
      Martin > Stewart
      Martin > Romine

      no matter what distorted visions people have of these 3, they are no better than backup catchers. they are not viable starting options. Not even close.

      You need some level of consistency at the C position. The New York Yankees don’t enter a season with a platoon at a fielding position.

      Last time I can remember them entering a season with that intention was when John Vander Wal was in RF. How well did that work out?

      DH doesn’t count….it’s not technically a “position.” It’s a spot in the batting order.

      • forensic says:

        They platooned Gardner and Cabrera, and could even argue Gardner and Jones a couple years ago.

        And how do you peg Martin as consistent? He’s only been consistent in that he’s consistently invisible/terrible for 5 months of the season.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        I agree that Martin is superior to certainly the first two, and most likely Romine as well.

        Platoons are gaining prominence. I would not be at all surprised to see one (in RF I’d guess, not C). The As, Rays, and Red Sox are considered to be among the most intelligent organizations in MLB, and all use platoons to varying extents. The As and Rays have done so to great success. The Yankees have done it in their bullpen, and set out to do it in their line-up. I think that there’s an argument that platoons are the new market inefficiency: arbitrage opportunity. It could be one of the more efficient ways to get under $189 million.

  79. Hummingbird S. says:

    Im not Martin’s biggest fan, but this is kinda pathetic. I hope this is not a sign of things to come..

  80. BigLoving says:

    Why does everyone have such a man crush on Napoli….does anyone remember he hit .227 this past year and .238 in 2010 while doing his best impersonation of a catcher? If there is such an issue with Martins overall numbers how is Napoli considered such a commodity?

    The Yanks should have just kept Montero. Yeah his defense is spotty at best but he did hit .260 with 15 HR’s as a 22 year old in a lineup that did not have one legit major league starter. The Yankees won with a good bat/bad glove catcher before it could have been done again.

  81. Travis L. says:

    What about Ramon Hernandez or Miguel Olivo??

  82. Robinson Tilapia says:

    The last time Yankee fans had to deal with the news that one of their own players signed a contract with another team, still seemingly within what should be their peak years, was Andy Pettitte. That probably has to do a hell of a lot with some of the reaction you’re seeing here.

  83. Ted Nelson says:

    This is the height of irony. The same people who whined about Martin all year are now whining that they didn’t sign him… LOL. We’re all DOOMED!!!

    I’m surprised they didn’t match if it’s the reported 2 years, $17 million. Will be interesting to see what they do at C. If Soto’s non-tendered I could see that, though I sort of doubt the Rangers traded for him to give up after half a season.

    • The Real Greg says:

      The problem is that there seems to be no viable backup plan in place.

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        That happens sometimes, even to the New York Yankees.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        No. I would say that the problem is because there’s no replacement on the roster and rumors aren’t circulating about one, some fans assume there will never be one.

        The other problem is that many fans assume Cashman is a moron. That he doesn’t understand the consequences of and risks inherent in his actions.

        I was/am as much a Martin fan as probably anyone on this board. I’m surprised they balked at that price. Until they actually fill out the roster, though, I’m not going to assume that Cashman is incapable of finding a starting C who is a better value and/or a better producer.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      I’m glad Martin’s gone. An AAV like that for is an overpay. What’s also great is that the Yankees also agree but somehow keeping and losing Martin is somehow both the right call.

  84. your mom says:

    Cashman has just sent Cano and Boras a subliminal message:

    “Our terms bitches, our terms.”

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Through Russell Martin? I’d wager the decision to not jump on Martin has little to do with how they’d handle Cano.

    • forensic says:

      Or they’re saying they’re saving every bit of money they can to throw it Cano’s way.

      Though I’d wager it has just about zero to do with sending any semblance of message to Cano or Boras.

    • Gonzo says:

      Boras then picked his teeth then said, “Dodgers bitches, Dodgers.”

      Then he cackled before muttering “cable money” under his breath.

  85. Zack says:

    IMO,Martin wanted the same offer the Yanks gave him at the start of the year,3 years and $20 million. NO way was he going to get that.

  86. There's the Door says:

    Everybody calm down. Very average player, and you would have hated the contract a year from now.

  87. Rocky Road Redemption says:

    Wow, they “didn’t have the cash”?

    What a bullshit excuse of a response.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Which is why I don’t necessarily buy it. I’d wager the cash would be there if they felt the player merited it.

      • MannyGeee (189M or bust, bitches!) says:

        Agreed, I think they were 1/2-hearted at re-signing him in the first place. Pittsburgh came in strong and took the onus off them.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      It’s a weak excuse. But Martin still doesn’t deserve it so it doesn’t matter what they say.

  88. dan gen says:

    outbid by the pirates….189,189,189,189,189,189………..

  89. Magilla Gorilla Mama Called me Roy tho says:

    Give the ball to Romine. Damnit. That’s how it’s done. Let’s not act like the sky has fallen when a no-hit catcher leaves. I liked his work behind the plate, but I would take Posada back in a heartbeat.

    • Knoxvillain says:

      I love Posada, but would you really want him back? He would hit .150 and throw almost nobody out.

    • stuart a says:

      yep Posada would fit right in. a over 40 yr old guy who retired because he stunk, yep let’s sign him back and maybe they can sign tino martinez also………..

  90. RetroRob says:

    Jaffe’s take. The Yankees miscalculated and will regret letting Martin leave.

    http://mlb.si.com/2012/11/29/r.....s-pirates/

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      The pitch framing data is very interesting.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      The Yankees have been on the forefront of valuing pitch framing from what I’ve read, and have been on the forefront of advanced offensive stats for a while. Jaffe assuming that they’re basing all his value on BA is odd.

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        True Average, which expresses a player’s run production per plate appearance on a batting average scale after adjusting for park and league scoring environments, with .260 as league average and .300 excellent, shows that the total footprint of Martin’s offensive work was right in line with the last three years, with his power increasing to compensate for his falling batting average

        Where the hell does it say the Yankees are basing Martin’s value on batting average? First of all the Yankees don’t even appear here. And he’s not even using batting average he’s using true average.

        He’s saying that Martin is league average with the bat and if they solely used batting average then obviously he wouldn’t come close to being league average. And he’s not saying the Yankees view him as average he’s stating HIS opinion that he’s league average.

        He’s not accusing the Yankees of anything other than miscalculating for not signing him. And don’t get yourself out of this one because as you stated right above you are one of Martin’s bigger supporters. All this guy said is that Martin is a good player and that the Yankees should’ve kept him. That’s all he said.

        No where did he say they didn’t get Martin because of a low batting average. They’re not even using batting average here.

        I know you ave a personal code to attack everyone who dares criticizes the Yankees but you usually can do a great job of that. This is by far the worst attempt to live by that code. No bullshit I’m shocked that you actually said this because it’s not at all relevant to the article.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          What the hell are you rambling about?

          Let me break this down for you: Jaffe says that the Yankees made a mistake in their valuation of Martin. He says that Martin is worth around $20 million PER SEASON, and points out that the Yankees are obviously not willing to pay him less than half that per season for two seasons. He builds up to this point by saying that people mistakenly look at Martin’s BA (and CS% / PBs… basic stats) as a measure of his value. That, in fact, his value is much higher because of his power and pitch framing. The Yankees did not see this value. He literally says that it looks like they *miscalculated* by letting Martin go. It is implied that they didn’t use the pitch framing and offensive data that he did (which I’m sure they didn’t, or they would have re-signed him), and they are wrong for it. If they had, they would have signed him in a heartbeat. A $20 mill per player for $8.5 mill per?

          You are the same asshole that is saying Martin was not worth nearly $8.5 million, and that Jaffe is right in his criticism of the Yankees. The funny part is you don’t even realize the contradiction.

          • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

            There is nothing in that article that indicates Jaffe is assuming the Yankees are basing all his value on BA.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Yes, there is. It’s implied. He says that people undervalue Martin by looking at his BA and CS%/PBs. Then he says that Martin is actually an insanely valuable player if you use the stats he does ($20 mill per). The Yankees do not consider him to be worth $8.5 million. Ergo, the Yankees are not valuing his properly. They “miscalculated” his value.

              Saying just BA was clearly hyperbole. But he questions whether they are properly using pitch framing and basic offensive stats.

          • Gonzo says:

            Ted Nelson:
            November 30, 2012 at 12:01 am
            I was/am as much a Martin fan as probably anyone on this board. I’m surprised they balked at that price. Until they actually fill out the roster, though, I’m not going to assume that Cashman is incapable of finding a starting C who is a better value and/or a better producer.

            Jaffe:
            Perhaps Cashman, who has gained a reputation for stealth in recent years, has something in the works to fill the catching void, and a sound reason for letting Martin walk. But right now, it appears he miscalculated by letting his backstop split town, and the Pirates are the better for it.

            Sounds like you and Jaffe have something in common here.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Yeah, I didn’t mean to attack Jaffe. I just said that I find it odd to question the Yankees use of advanced stats. They were early adopters, so if anything I would wonder if they’ve taken it to a higher level that I’m not even on yet. These orgs spend a ton of time and money evaluating this stuff. While 20 years ago fans were way ahead of them, I’m not sure that’s the case anymore.

              • Gonzo says:

                Cool, because I think you and Jaffe are on the same page here. You are both surprised they balked at the price, and both of you point out the obvious that Cashman might have something in mind that precluded signing Martin.

                The only difference is that Jaffe went into detail why he’s surprised they balked at the price. Something I thought you of all people would appreciate.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  I would say the difference is that Jaffe assumes that they were wrong for balking. And the argument he builds to show that is based on those who don’t understand Martin’s value (which he estimates at $20 million per season… I like Martin, but that’s about double what my off-hand guess would be) relying on simplistic stats. He says that maybe they have another move in mind he isn’t privy to, but at no point does he say that maybe they actually know more about Martin’s value than he does.

                  • Gonzo says:

                    So should every baseball article breaking down every transaction come with the disclaimer that one team could know better than the other teams?

                    That would suck.

          • JobaWockeeZ says:

            Christ I’m breaking this down simply.

            I think Martin is overpaid.
            Jaffe and you think Martin is worth it.
            You disagree with Jaffe for some reason and I’m restating his argument.
            I’m not defending Martin, I’m saying what the author is saying because you’re accusing him of bullshit.

            Which is unlike you.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Funny thing is that I disagree with the Yankees quite often. I literally disagree with them on this move. I just also disagree with A. people who are sure this means doom and B. Jaffe’s assessment that the Yankees don’t understand the value of pitch framing and power as well as he does.

          I disagreed on the Montero/Pineda deal, though it wasn’t ridiculous by any means. I wasn’t thrilled to see Mitchell go for 1/2 a season of Ichiro, though also not too upset.

          I tend to agree with the Yankees because they are one of the better run organizations in MLB. I tend to defend them on here because people make ridiculous comments about a perennial playoff team that is very well run.

    • FIPster Doofus says:

      Reading that has only made me more annoyed about this situation. Hopefully Cashman has something good up his sleeve.

  91. JobaTheHeat62 says:

    i got it…nunez can catch

  92. Nathan says:

    Can’t blame Russ for leaving since the Yankees never made him an offer.

    Sounds like Cashman has his hands tied with the whole money issue.

    Never thought I’d live to see the day the Yankees didn’t have money.

    • And they expect to be business as usual in 14 with the limit lol

      • Rich in NJ says:

        2014 may turn on how well Banuelos and Pineda recover from their surgeries, as well as some quantum leaps in development by some of their other prospects.

        It would be beyond great if that happens (even if the austerity talk turns out to be a head fake to gain leverage in future negotiations with free agents), but they must have some kind of fallback plan, right???

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      Cash is having a great offseason. He’s keeping important players and not overpaying anyone long term.

      However not fucking up is only half of the battle so it’s still far to call anything a success. But so far so good. Are people really upset over losing Russell Martin?

      We got Kuroda, Mo and Pettitte back and all three at some point had doubts of coming back. Martin is inferior to those three, he’s not the one we’re gonna regret.

      • Nathan says:

        Oh I’m not so upset about losing Martin so much as I’m now thinking “great, who is going to catch now”. As crappy of a season as Russell had, he’s still better than what the Yankees have right now (Cevelli/Stewart).

        It’s all great that the pitching appears to be back for next season but as we saw in the playoffs, the pitchers did their jobs while the hitters did not. Losing Martin and replacing him with Frankie and Stewart is not a step in the right direction.

        Of course, could Cash have something in the works? Sure. But if that means trading ______ for X catcher, unless it’s some sort of weird PS3 trade, I’d rather just give Martin the two years of cash than trade any prospects.

  93. pistol pete says:

    I’m not in love with Martin but what the heck is out there. AJ is a little whacky and poor defensively but should hit ok in NY and Napoli is a better hitter than Martin but his defensive skills will drive Girardi nuts. The options beyond that are trades. Mauer is the highest profile but his contract is Arod like and he’s limited defensively. Hope Cash has something up his sleeve because our young catchers are not ready. Romaine is coming off an injury filled minore league season and can’t hit and Sanchez is just too young and not ready.

  94. mustang says:

    Cashman has something else coming bet on it. Regardless I like to thank the Yankees, Russell Martin and the Pirates for making is into a good old fashion drag out RAB fight thread I personally miss these.

  95. Gonzo says:

    What no asking Cashman to go get a fallen catching prospect RAB? Your slipping RAB.

  96. mt says:

    I was thinking about Geovany Soto as a pick-up after a potential non-tender from Texas but now that I think about it given Napoli’s potential departure, Texas will probably tender Soto – the catcher market is so bad (not a lot of quality supply) Texas will probably be able to trade Soto for a decent return even after his arbitration raise.

    I also fear Toronto will get some even better players than even they might have hoped from trading Arencibia or Buck – not good for Yankees.

    The thing I do not get is reports that Yankees did not offer Russ a contract – shouldn’t Yanks have at least offered him what you think he was worth, say, 2 years at 11-12 million – and have him turn it down. Just seems silly to lose him when the team he joined only offered him 2 years. There was no way Martin was signing a one year contract in this market.

    Not sure Yanks can achieve a a team where CC, Arod, Tex and Jeter (with his option) are the only players with team payroll commitments for 2014. They are lucky with Kuroda, Pettite and Mo on one year contracts ( and also have fairly old players as an potential downside to these new one year contracts). I would think it makes sense to have some limited, 2014 exposure from either someone new for right field or better infield utility (like Keppinger) – if we try to trade for a one year contract of someone decent – like Choo in Cleveland – we may be giving up prospects like Phelps who have five or six years of control that could really help in 2014-2015.

    That being said, I am actually OK with one of Romine/Stewart/Cervelli as one catcher paired with a catcher with some power (admittedly, low average) like Shoppach IF and only if they upgrade from an Ichiro/Scott Hairston type platoon in right.

    (although I am still confused by today’s RAB Hairston write-up that says Hairston can’t play right as a back-up fourth outfielder – isn’t that a non-starter?. Whoever is in right – whether Ichiro (if we sign him as starter) or Grandy (if we move him from center) – will need a day off and I didn’t think Gardner played right either (even as a back-up).

  97. Jim Cavanaugh says:

    Martin can take a hike. Overvalued. I would sooner try to get Pierzynski here on a 2 yr deal, hopefully for a bit less than what Martin got. At least that would add some personality to this team cause it’s been a while since i saw a lifeless bunch trudge into the playoffs the way the Yankees did. Without question this team needs attitude. Deadbeats they were in the playoffs last year and Martin was right in the middle of it. Let AJ catch here for 2 years and then hopefully Sanchez is ready. The timing seems right for that kind of set up. If they are going to go internally, let Romine have first hack at it. Please don’t disrespect Yankee fans by trying to trot out either Stewart or Cervelli as a viable starter. Seriously, we have seen what they can do … it ain’t much. Whatever the team does they better tweak that line up. I am super glad mgmt wants to get under the 189 million cap or whatever but unless my blue moon goes on sale or that Lobel steak sandwich drops to a respectable price, shut up about saving money. Fans still get robbed dog !

  98. Herby says:

    A little surprised they wouldn’t match his offer…but I won’t shed any tears over it. At least this way the Yankees are forced into a decision what they’ll have to do with their catching situation beyond Martin which wasn’t a great one. It’s a long way till spring training and a lot can happen before then. Yankees got Martin as a non-tender. No way in hell should they go after A.J. Pierzynski, too old, too much of a asshole.
    I think it’s Martin who made the mistake though…Pittsburgh? Please…Enjoy blocking those great pitches by Burnett…yea, it’s great to make money, but a good part of being a pro is a chance at a championship, I don’t see it happening in Pittsburgh.

  99. Karloff says:

    As someone who lived through Cerone, Don Slaughter, Matt Nokes and the revolving catcher door after Munson till Posada came along, I can sure live with out Martin for a year or two.

  100. Greg Duffy says:

    Although his hitting was horrific last season, he defense behind the plate was phenominal. Who do they use now, Cervelli? Great! I’m not sure I would have let him go

  101. Mike HC says:

    Maybe the Yanks have concerns about his back? That is how they got Martin on the cheap in the first place. He never did quite bounce back to his previous hitting levels and he will be 30 next year. I would have thought the Yanks would match that offer, but I hope Cashman has something better in mind if he didn’t.

  102. jjyank says:

    Well this thread was quite the riveting morning read. Topped off by a couple of 12 year olds who just discovered what oral sex is. I sure hope they cleared their browser history before their mothers see this.

    But seriously, thanks for the laughs this morning. Today will be a good day.

    As far as Martin goes, I wanted the Yankees to resign him. I’m okay with letting him walk though. The offseason is still early, and I have a feeling that Cashman has something in the works. If he wouldn’t go two years for Martin, he’s not gonna sign Peirzynski or Napoli, in my opinion. I also don’t think they will open the season with some combination of Stewart/Cervelli/Romine/Whiteside. I’m very interested to see what comes next.

    • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod says:

      Agreed. He’s not looking at AJ or Mike. He’s gotta have some interesting cards in his hand, can’t wait to see how the next month or two plays out.

  103. Long-Past-His-Day-Rod says:

    Meh, don’t care about losing Martin. But then again, I still place some (not all) value in the most meaningless stat of all, BA. He was an above-average defensive C for sure, but I think his power numbers are over-emphasized. He wasn’t hitting bombs, but YS3 specials. The chart has been posted on here multiple times.

    IMO, Cashman saying the Yankees don’t have the cash to match the Pirates’ offer means he’s got something up his sleeve. He’s not that stupid to just let Martin go without having a plan to make the team better. I can’t wait to see what it is.

    Swisher back? Hamilton 1 year deal? Both unlikely, but hey, you never really know with this front office. They will say one thing and do another. Personally if it came down to Re-signing Swisher or re-signing Martin I’d pick Swish 101 times out of 100.

    I guess the point of this rambling post is bring on the Winter Meetings and hope to see some funky Cash-magic.

  104. Yank the Frank says:

    Frankie C is practicing his fist pumps as we speak.

  105. Neil Treeby says:

    Outbid by the Pirates. Embarrassing.

    Right then…

    Cervelli+Nova/Phelps/Hughes(+RandomPiece) = ?Major-League Veteran Catcher?

    Please tell me there’s at least one NL club out there who will view that as a reasonable deal.

  106. Bill says:

    Maybe Hal meant the payroll going to be $ 89 million instead of $ 189 million.

    This to me is that with the way Hal operating you can say goodbye to Cano, Granderson & Hughes he does not want to spend any more money to improve the team.

  107. I am not the droids you're looking for... says:

    Time for me to gloat bitches.

    I must have posted 1000 times throughout the C/FA/offseason/Martin threads that I would lick my own balls if Martin got 3/24 or anything like that, something Mike insisted on over and over and over and over, even crazy talking himself all the way to 3/27 and 3/30 along the way. And Mike, to be clear, I’m a huge fan of yours and the site in general, but MAN you (and many others) so completely misread the situation it’s kind of hard to believe.

    Except that it’s not. I said the second they chose not to make him a QO that it was because the two year deal he would have to sign elsewhere would only somewhat surpass the 1/13.3 QO. And lo and behold.

    He may be the best C option available, but he’s not particularly good, certainly not someone to get upset about losing, and certainly not someone to overpay for in lite of $189mm. And yes the deal he got is an overpay. Matching or beating it would only exacerbate the issue.

    So…TOLDJA.

  108. TomH says:

    Down 45 HRs if Swish is gone.

  109. Chris says:

    I think this provides the smoking gun for anyone who thinks the Yankees will walk away from the 189 budget. If they wouldn’t resign the only average catcher for the team becuse it was too much then yea, I’d say they aren’t going to shock us all with Hamilton any time soon.

    I can’t get over how the media aren’t taking this seriously. I mean every move they made since the new CBA has been aimed at getting below 189.

    Letting Martin walk kind of sucks but there are cheaper options which offer better defense. I think a catchers real value is in calling a good game and keeping the running game under control. Hitting is secondary from the position. Historically we have had great hitting catchers but it does not mean baseball in general has considered it a great offensive position.

    It may hurt this year but I’m sure Cash has a plan and we can’t judge the team at this point. They are missing a Right fielder and Catcher.

  110. AdamC6 says:

    Pretty obvious that many posters here do not watch any baseball, or follow any players, other than the Yanks.

    Have any of you looked at the guys behind the plate elsewhere? It’s a horror show out there.

    Martin will be missed, on offense and defense.

    A weak catcher platoon is fine when everyone else is hitting…..but chance of upgrade at any position is slim to none right now. Swisher’s production (regular season) is gone. Now Martin….

    I’d be the happiest guy in the world if Romine or Cervelli hit .250 from the 8/9 hole…..but it’s highly unlikely. Plus, we all know the OPS is going to be awful.

    The agony of living with ARODs contract is going to consume us and this organization for the next five years.

    • Neil Treeby says:

      Molina, Posey, Wieters. I can’t think off the top of my head any other MLB catchers out there who would be a significant enough upgrade from Martin to be worth chasing after. And those three are untouchable.

      • Kosmo says:

        Miguel Montero
        Carlos Santana
        Joe Mauer
        Carlos Ruiz
        Lucroy
        to name a few

        • Kosmo says:

          more than likely none of these C get traded.

        • AdamC6 says:

          If your point is that those guys are better than Martin….trim Ruiz and Lucroy off the list….plus Mauer since he’s now a 1b….almost ditto Santana on that.

          Sensing a trend?

          I’m not saying Martin was great — I’m merely reinforcing the point that the position is pretty much an empty cupboard and that’s why Martin had value — it’s all relative.

          Idiots keep expecting to find a catcher with Pujols numbers.

          If the Yanks can get .235 12 HR and 45 RBI out of the C spot this year, I’d be shocked.

          • Kosmo says:

            I do think they are all better offensively. Last time I looked Mauer and Santana were still C. Ruiz and Lucroy are better hitters.
            I understand your point although each position has its handful of elite players, C being no different.
            I do think NY will get .235,12,45 out of the C spot. Still plenty of time before April to sort things out.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      “chance of upgrade at any position is slim to none right now”

      That’s just not true.

      • AdamC6 says:

        I’m all ears….you’re dealing with a team looking to go on the cheap, so free agents with value at low cost are whom exactly?

        Look at the signings thus far…..pricey contracts.

        I know there are good players out there, but I’m not seeing how a “cash constrained” organization is going to bring them in.

        Sure, they could obtain an upgrade by trading Williams, Sanchez and Campos for something…..

        If they suddenly realize the error of their ways and start spending money, then sure, they can upgrade. But under the current “system” of low cash and 1 year offers…..not gonna happen.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          The top free agents are generally signed first, and then the guys who fail to attract the attention they hoped for start getting signed to more reasonable deals. It’s like that every off-season. Seeing big contracts handed out and talked about early in the off-season is not surprising. Non-tender guys hit the market today, so there might be some more cheap names to add to the list. That is how the Yankees got Martin.

          They don’t have limitless funds, but they also aren’t broke. They’re just trying to spend wisely.

          They have many prospects besides those three. You missed two of their top 4 BA prospects, in fact. Just as they got Martin after he was non-tendered they got Swisher for Wilson Betemit, a fairly low-upside SP prospect, and an ok RP prospect the Yankees had just picked up for Alberto Gonzalez. I’m not saying they’ll necessarily find that value again, I’m just saying that not every trade has to be a buy-high deal for someone coming off a career year… in fact, those are often the worst kinds of trades.

          I don’t know who the Yankees are going to have at C. Use your imagination a little and have a little faith that Cashman will continue to be one of the better GMs in baseball. Assuming there is no one at ANY POSITION who could be an upgrade is not reasonable.

          • AdamC6 says:

            Fair enough…I’m just tired of re-tread old players and this “system” seems to guarantee more of the same, but now the dregs who will settle for one year deals.

            I wasn’t listing all their prospects, simply throwing together an attractive package….

            I guess I’m still annoyed that a team that chose to give ARod that ridiculous contract (and will likely repeat the error with Cano) is now counting pennies.

            I’d be happier if they rebuilt the way normal teams do, with youth and excitement.

            Yankee teams are pretty much unlovable anymore, and once Jeter, Andy and Mo are gone…..well, what’s to like. Blah.

  111. Dave M says:

    Interesting analysis of why the Yanks flubbed this one:

    http://mlb.si.com/2012/11/29/r.....s-pirates/

  112. OMG! Bagels! says:

    Perhaps Girardi is going to catch.

    I read an article a few days ago about Swisher that he is ready to move on. The fans apparently hurt his feelings during the playoffs. That and the Yankees haven’t asked him to stick around. Are they re-signing Ichiro?

    I don’t know what Cashman is thinking, but I have to think he’s thinking something or has something in the works. Or maybe he’ll just let the pitchers throw straight at the ump.

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