Saturday Night Open Thread


Had myself a nice little Saturday and I hope you all did as well. Here’s the nightly open thread to unwind. The Knicks and Nets are both playing, but talk about whatever you like here. Enjoy.

Categories : Other Teams


  1. Pissed off fan says:

    Hoping robby cano learned how to run to first base this winter maybe his asshole agent could get him to hussel down the base line for the MONEY

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      If he ran hard to first maybe he gets one or two extra hits in a season. Who gives a damn?

      • jjyank says:

        I tend to agree. I think the whole thing is overblown. I’m not saying he doesn’t hustle, and if he doesn’t, I’m not saying he does it on purpose. BUT, not playing balls to the wall on every ground ball to an infielder might help him age better than other middle infielders. That’s my silver-lining, optimist take.

        • MannyGeee says:

          Dustin Pedrioa takes offense.

          If Cano never wins an AL MVP when Perdoia one the “best of a mediocre bunch” MVP that season, it will be amongst the biggest travesties in the sport.

          • Jacob says:

            I personally thought he had a better year in ’10 than Hamilton did, heavilly leaning on the fact he played a lot more games and did not miss the last month. But who am I to say what is what.

        • Pistol Pete says:

          Agree way overblown, every player has weaknesses, fans even say he’s lazy in the field when the truth is that he’s just so smooth. His hustle problems are overblown, do you guys really want a 250 hustle player that hits ten hr’s a year. I ‘d be more worried about his clutch hitting problems he has had in the post season or his lack of hitting with rips. I say bat him third all year and see if Robbie is a franchise player worth 20 m per year. Stop jerking him around the lineup, third everyday all year and let’s see.

  2. Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

    Do the Yankees trade Cano if they can’t sign him long term by the trade deadline or do they take the chance of having him leave for just a drat pick compensation in free agency?.

    • FIPster Doofus says:

      The only way they’d trade him at the deadline is if they’re out of contention, which isn’t likely.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      No chance they trade him at the deadline unless they were completely out of the playoff hunt. Even then, I’m not sure they’d trade him unless they decided they were definitely not going to resign him.

      • RetroRob says:

        Right. Let’s say the Yankees finally have that season fans fear, meaning old age and injuries to such a degree that they’re second division, struggling at or below .500. They could make the choice to move both Cano and Granderson for prospects. The prospects coming back, though, would have to be good enough to pass on the pick they’d get instead and/or the additional draft flexbility they’d get with the pick, meaning a higher spending limit for the June draft.

    • Magilla Gorilla Mama Called me Roy tho says:

      half a season of a Boras client is not worth very much as a trade deadline deal. It is not as though the receiving team has an inside track on signing him.

  3. mrdbag says:

    Bo Jackson 30/30 is excellent there was a true 80 scale 5 tool star could have been a HOF in two sports. Mr. Steinbrenner tried to sign him out of high school.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      That 30/30 was amazing. He looked like a full grown man when he was in high school.

      Can you imaging being a 140lbs high school CB seeing that 200 lbs+ beast running a 4.2 40 coming at you?

    • Pat D says:

      Yea, I thought it was pretty good. My only complaint was that they referred to how unstoppable Bo was in “the first Tecmo Bowl,” yet all the video game clips they showed were from Tecmo Super Bowl, the superior sequel.

      Always loved playing as the Giants in that game. LT was unstoppable and Ottis Anderson was another of those guys who couldn’t be tackled easily, with defenders bouncing off him.

      • MannyGeee says:

        “My only complaint was that they referred to how unstoppable Bo was in “the first Tecmo Bowl,” yet all the video game clips they showed were from Tecmo Super Bowl, the superior sequel”

        You nerddom just blew my dick off.. Well done, keep it up

      • Deep Thoughts says:

        Thanks for the memory of O.J. Anderson!

    • forensic says:

      I’ll never understand the constant overrating of Jackson. He was strong as a bull, and thus had some power, but he had no great contact abilities, on-base abilities, and his speed was only really there for a couple short years. Not to mention he made Josh Hamilton look like an ironman in durability.

      To each their own I guess.

      • RetroRob says:

        It’s not that hard to understand when viewing his whole story and ability.

        Bo was as gifted athletically as any player I’ve seen on a baseball field. He just was raw. The Yankees drafted him in either the first or second round out of high school hoping he’d sign, even though it was known he was heading off to college on a football scholarship. He played both sports in college, but football was the focus, which always stunted his full baseball development. The Royals drafted him and basically put him straight in the majors with only a few minor league ABs. He wasn’t ready, and he was never available during the offseason to continue his development. I’m just pointing all that out because it’s amazing he was able to do what he did. It was all on the job training, learning on the MLB level. By ’89 he had a 124 OPS+and ’90 an excellent 142 OPS+. Then the injury from his hobby.

        Bo was supposed to stop playing football. 150-games-a-year Bo playing baseball during the high-offense 90s with his fielding and running skills? Baseball fans missed something great. I’m not saying he would have become the best player in the game because he did have his flaws, but his ’90 season showed his progression and where he was going. He just never got there.

        • forensic says:

          Even in 1990, his numbers were greatly enhanced by small samples. One was a 14 game April with an .860 OPS and the other was a 3-HR game in July which skyrocketed his numbers, even his season numbers, since he only played 111 games. And he had a SB% of 63, which you know isn’t good.

          The year before, in 1989, his great year amounted to a .310 OBP, albeit with very good power, but still only playing 135 games. This year also included a .984 OPS in April and nothing over .844 the rest of the year. He had a grand total of 31 unintentional walks that whole year, and if you say it’s only because he played just 135 games that still came with 172 strikeouts.

          I’m not denying his athleticism and what it takes to reach the pinnacle of two different professional sports, but that doesn’t mean that his abilities in one or the other has to be exaggerated to make him look better at each.

          In addition, whether you buy into it or not, he has a .121 OPS advantage at home vs. the road over his career, which is enormous.

          • RetroRob says:

            It’s the skills and the story of Jackson that created the buzz. I’m not in anyway attempting to defend the hype, but I understand it having seen it while it was happening.

            He would have been better off signing with the Yankees and focusing on baseball, which supposedly was his favorite of the two sports. Eventually, he would have been forced into just baseball since no team would sign him knowing he’d be heading off to football camp every September.

  4. Pat D says:

    So it sounds like it’s Dickey and Thole for d’Arnaud, Buck, Noah Syndergaard and another player. Is that enough? Thole and Buck seem to be a wash, but I don’t know if the Mets are getting enough. I guess Dickey’s age and contract situation work against them.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      Isn’t d’Arnaud supposed to be in the same class as Posey?

      That’s pretty good for a 37 year old knuckleballer

      • Mike Eder says:

        I’m sure someone’s made the comparison somewhere, but it’s unfair to D’Arnaud. He doesn’t walk as much, and he strikes out more. He might still have outstanding numbers for a 23 year old, but they’re in the PCL, and with a very high BABIP. That’s not to say he was lucky, but once he moves to the major leagues and in a pitcher’s ballpark, he’s going to see regression.

        That said, he’s the best catching prospect in baseball, and you could argue the best positional prospect, depending how you value the position. There’s a ton of potential, and his ceiling might be Posey, but everything has to go right, and the chances are very slim. It’s probably more fair to expect Miguel Montero offense. 6 years of that is well worth one year of Dickey though.

    • MannyGeee says:

      RA Dickey is a complete enigma to me. I don’t know how I feel about him. At all.

      I don’t know if I should like him, hate him, want him on my team, want him in my division… I cant guage a relative value n a 40 YO Cy Young winning knuckle ball throwing guy that makes funny faces and didnt pitch with shit against the AL. AND OH HES ONLY OWED $5M next season…. The whole thing defies logic.

      I have not had feelings this conflicted about anyone I am not sleeping with in my entire life.

      • Jacob says:

        Forreal I think the Jays are idiotic for actually thinking about a d’arnaud for dickey trade. I would offer them the equivilent of Warren, Romine and or Corbin/Adams, I caught a liking to dickey in 2010 but honestly a 38 year old knuckleballer vs the AL east really scares the shit out of me.

        • RetroRob says:

          Dickey didn’t master his knuckleball until the Mets picked him up off the junkpile and sent him, briefly, to AAA. He’s not a one-year wonder, putting up three straight very good years, and he seems to have taken yet another step forward in 2012 in the control and movement on his unique knuckler.

          He’s 7-0 and an ERA under 1.80 against the AL over the past three years. They won’t know how to hit that knuckler any more than the NL did. I do not want him on the Blue Jays, but it seems like it’s a sure thing now.

          • Jacob says:

            Did you not see where I said I caught a liking to him in 2010? I never said he was a one year wonder, he has had 3 really good years but I highly doubt he repeats last year in the NL or the AL

            • RetroRob says:

              I did, and I wasn’t trying to contradict what you were saying. I was just adding my part in, but I believe I think he’ll do better in the AL East than you will. I’m basing that partly on the the package you would be comfortable offering, which was Warren, Romine and or Corbin/Adam. That wouldn’t be enough since everyone has issues. d’Arnaud would at least bring back one of the top prospects in the game and at a premium position.

              Dickey in the AL East scares me too, but I think for different reasons!

          • Mister D says:

            His SO% and swinging strike %, which is what led to his outstanding 2012, is (to date) a one year wonder.

  5. jjyank says:

    Regardless if whether or not you think Cano should be traded, let’s just take a step back for a moment, watch that video above, and admire that beautiful swing. I’ve said this many times before, but Cano’s swing is among the prettiest I have seen in my lifetime.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      Without a doubt. His and Ken Griffey jr are things of beauty

      • jjyank says:

        The only swings in my lifetime that I love watching as much as Robbie’s are Griffey Jr and A-Rod. Even with A-Rod’s diminishing skills, that home run stroke is gorgeous. Especially the oppo field one.

        But yeah, Cano has this amazingly effortless style about him, and it’s so fluid. When I’m bored, I often find myself watch clips of his.

        I like this one:

        • RetroRob says:

          I’ll put George Brett on that list, although he’d have been retiring just as you probably were becoming aware of baseball. Beautiful swing, no seeming way to get him out. Hard to strike out, could pull a 100mph fastball into the upper deck as Goose knew all too well, but was a line-to-line hitter. Couldn’t get him out consistently with hard or soft stuff. Seemed to save his best games against the Yankees. Even his outs were line drives. Scared me more than any hitter in the years I’ve been watching the game. I have no idea what he would have done if his peak coincided with the hitting era from 1994 forward, but retired just before and was in his 40s by then.

          I should also add one of our own here. Donnie Baseball had a beautiful swing.

          • jjyank says:

            Fair enough. But both of those guys were before my time. I became aware of baseball in 1995 (I was 7). Though my dad loves Donnie enough for me to love him too. Never watched him live enough to fall in love with his swing, though. Griffey was my first love, even though I obviously was not a Mariners fan.

            • RetroRob says:

              Yup. As I started to write my post, I looked up again at who I was replying to and realized you wouldn’t have seen Brett. As a baseball fan, that’s too bad, as a Yankee fan, be thankful! He was torture.

              When I think of the most beautiful swings, it seems a higher percentage come from LH’d batters, but I believe that just might be the angle of the cameras. Griffey, Brett, Cano, Mattingly all had some of the best I’ve seen. What’s common is they all had solid foundation at the plate, great weight transfer and hip rotation.

              • jjyank says:

                It is interesting that those guys are lefties. But I think A-Rod (a righty, duh) is up there for me too. In his prime, that swing was real sweet. He just flicked his wrists, and it would be an oppo field bomb.

                • RetroRob says:

                  A-Rod is totally up there. It just seems like a higher percentage of the “pretty swings” for whatever reason are lefties. Pujols’s swing, at least during his Cardinal years, is as good as they come.

                • nsalem says:

                  Check out Ted Williams swing on youtube. His batting average was 40 points higher than any of those guys and his OBP was 120 points higher
                  .482 I think. He did this while hitting directly into a shift for most of his career. He hit 521 HRs in a difficult rightfield at Fenway and missed 5 prime years of his career. He had the most beautiful swing of anyone I’ve seen where the video is available to really get a good look. I loved Donnie swing (especially before he hurt his back) and it was brutal to seem him start regressing at age 28. Both Williams’ numbers and swing are mind boggling though.

        • G says:

          That play at 2:20 really puts a hole in that “He never hustles theory”

      • Andrew 518 says:

        Cano just makes it look so easy.

        But for my money Strawberry’s swing was the best. It had a hitch and it was too long but when he really made contact it was something to behold.

        As a side note I’ve always thought it such a shame that two of the most tallented players of the 80′s (+ gooden) had their careers derailed because of recreational drugs (nobody’s fault but their own but..) while everyone else was using PED’s. Of course they too might have been juicing but a bummer nonetheless. Would have been nice to see their potential fully realized.

    • MannyGeee says:

      My biggest issue with Robbie’s swing is that he bails on the pitch if he thinks is not a good one mid swing…when he fowls pitches off, you can see his head just sorta bobble around. Not that I worry about his contact skills, but I wonder if he strikes out more because of that…

      • Mister D says:

        The bailing is exactly why I think lefties tend to look prettier; turning to 1B is a natural flow in the swing versus uncoil-then-change-direction.

        Also adding Palmeiro and Edmonds, who could fluidly uppercut a pitch at the letters.

  6. pat says:

    FIlth. One of my favorite AB’s of all time. That was a bomb, too.

  7. Mike Eder says:

    I would be very worried about Dickey pitching in doors half the time. The knuckleball largely relies on differences in surrounding air pressure, and I’d imagine there’s much less of that in an indoor stadium.

    • TomH says:

      Couldn’t tell you about “differences in surrounding air pressure,” but the Rogers Centre is often very muggy when the roof is closed. Of course, it’s often open when the weather’s good.

  8. Yankees Insider says:

    I can guarantee you that if ibañez signs with another team (rangers) the yanks will sign Travis HAFNER or Carlos lee and if not they may platoon Dickerson/Nunez and somedays have Nunez play SS and JETER be the righty DH. Unless of corse they also sign Hairston as RH OF.

  9. matt montero says:

    I hate the weekend before finals, especially when you have two of them on monday.

    • Cris Pengiucci says:

      My daughter is in a similar boat. 3 papers to finish and a final on Monday and another on Tuesday. Hang in there. It’ll be over soon. Then, after a short break, it’ll start over again. You get a summer break (during which, hopefully you’ll work or take some summer courses), and then it’s back to school. When that routine finishes, with a bit of luck, you’ll get a job, have very little vacation time, and have deadlines each month or so. Get used to it, because it doesn’t get a whole lot easier. :-)

      • jjyank says:

        Stop being such a dad!

        Matt, you procrastinate your ass off, pull a few all nighters, and then get really drunk for awhile. Worked for me :)

        • YanksFanInBeantown says:

          Heh, replace drunk with another word and you just described my last week.

        • RetroRob says:

          Cris and I were assigned Dad duties tonight here on RAB. Unwritten rules says there has to be at least two here at any given time.

          That said, my advice to Matt is to really decide if he’s going to study tonight, or if he’s most likely doing it tomorrow. If so, just go out tonight and worry about it tomorrow!

          That was my former college kid in my speaking, not the Dad part.

  10. MannyGeee says:

    The other thing people seem to be hesitant to mention: the Jay have one year of Dickey, Johnson, Buck, Lind, Izturis, Rajai Davis….

    A whole lot of eggs are being put in the 2013 basket.

    • Preston says:

      They are already talking extension with Johnson, and it is rumored that the Dickey trade is going to be conditioned on him signing an extension. The rest of those players are completely fungible.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      People also don’t mention enough that guys like Lind, Izturis, Buck/Arencibia, and Davis or Rasmus are probably playing a prominent role on their team. They’ve got a lot of talent, but also some likely holes. Like the Yankees.

      They signed Izturis for four years, I believe, though.

    • Jacob says:

      A lot of cracked eggs that can very easily break too.

  11. turd surfer says:

    I can’t wait till they do a 30 for 30 on knuckleballers.

  12. Cris Pengiucci says:

    forensic made a comment in last night’s open thread about what first responders go through after something like what happened in CT. I hope everyone keeps the families that had children involved in this horrible incident in mind while at the same time also keeping the first responders and teachers in mind. Everyone involved with this is suffering. We can only hope they recover with time. I wish them all well and hope they somehow find peace.

    • MannyGeee says:

      This. I have friends who were first responders to the VA Tech situation. They didn’t take do well for a while…

      It’s a shitty situation for everyone. Just horrific stuff

  13. Knoxvillain says:

    Yankees and Angels discussed Vernon Wells.

    Oh God, why? They can sign me for the league minimum instead.

  14. Terry says:

    Trumbo Yes, Wells Hell NO!!

    • Knoxvillain says:

      No to Trumbo as well.

      • jjyank says:

        Unless he comes cheap, which he won’t. So yeah, pass.

        • Knoxvillain says:

          If if was something like Warren and Joseph, then absolutely. But I’m sure the Angels would ask for at least Williams and Austin, and that ain’t happening.

          • Get Phelps Up says:

            Warren and Joseph is still too much for Trumbo.

            • Knoxvillain says:

              I don’t know. Trumbo can hit 30 home runs so I think a number five starter and an average infielder is fair.

              • Get Phelps Up says:

                But that’s literally all he does. He doesn’t walk at all and is a terrible defender everywhere except first base. And he was getting benched for VERNON WELLS when the Angels were competing for a playoff spot – that should tell you how bad he was down the stretch.

                Besides, what would the Yankees even do with him?

                • Knoxvillain says:

                  Yeah, that’s true, but he still has a little value, and Warren and Joseph have almost no value combined.

                  They shouldn’t have a problem playing him at DH and platooning with Ichiro in the outfield.

                • Jacob says:

                  Was that your endorsement for us getting Wells?

  15. Karloff says:

    RA Dickeys biography was a really good read, I usually don’t read sports biographies but I’d highly recommend it.
    I pay little attention to the other NY baseball team but why do the Meta want to trade him, I’d think they could afford a reasonable extension.

    • Knoxvillain says:

      If they’re getting back D’Arnaud then they have to do that deal. He’s 38 and they aren’t going to compete next year and if he has another good year he won’t be back in New York.

      Might as well get something back for him since he’s not going to matter on the Mets.

    • matt montero says:

      If they could get D’Arnaud or Gose/Arrencibia, plus a few other guys, why wouldn’t they? By the time they compete he will be at least 40, so he will only have a year or two, at most, before he retires.

      • Preston says:

        Knuckleballers routinely pitch well past 40, Wakefield pitched until he was 44, Charlie Hough pitched until he was 46 and Phil Niekro pitched until he was 48. D’Arnaud is a great prospect and the Mets have some good young pitchers so the deal makes sense. But I would definitely have second thoughts about getting rid of Dickey, he’s a special player.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          I wouldn’t rush into it, but if I’m the Mets I take the package. Sort of depends on what you’re going to pay him for an extension, but for a rebuilding team I probably take the two good prospects for one year of Dickey plus the option of extending him.

          Any idea how hard Hough and Niekro threw? I wonder if Dickey’s faster knuckle (and FB, compared to Wakefield) make him more susceptible to aging.

          • Preston says:

            I think getting Syndergaard makes it a really good deal for the Mets. I wouldn’t have done it for Gose and JPA the original offer, I would have thought about it for D’arnaud, adding a high end pitching propect to the package makes it a no brainer.

        • forensic says:

          Those guys pitched till those ages, but they weren’t necessarily pitching well till then (I know ERA+ isn’t the be-all, end-all, but it’s easy to grab and helps compare the different times they pitched).

          Wakefield was a 103 ERA+ or lower guy every year from age 39 and later, except for one fluke year at 41, with 43 and 44 being pretty terrible.

          Hough was an under 100 ERA+ guy every year from 41 on, with one exception where he was exactly 100.

          Niekro, as a HOFer, has a little different standard to live up to, but even he was an under 100 ERA+ guy every year from 44 on, except for one apparently fluke year. And even before that (at about 42 and on), he lost value as he was down from his usually insane upper 200′s-300′s IP numbers to low 200′s- 100′s.

          Dickey doesn’t have nearly the track record of those guys, and even if he did, the Mets aren’t going anywhere in the next few years so why hold on to him just to finish in 4th or battle for 3rd rather than trading him, getting good prospects who can develop and learn in the bigs the next couple years and have to battle for 4th instead of 3rd. I would absolutely trade him if I were the Mets and let the receiving team worry about what happens nearing his 40′s.

  16. Karloff says:

    RA Dickeys biography was a really good read, I usually don’t read sports biographies but I’d highly recommend it.
    I pay little attention to the other NY baseball team but why do the Mets want to trade him, I’d think they could afford a reasonable extension.

    • G says:

      Dickey just won the Cy Young using a pitch that will let him age well. Reasonable extension shouldn’t be in his vocabulary. His goal now should be to prove he can dominate the AL and double his market for next free agency.

  17. endlessjose says:

    Of course the Yankees discussed Wells.He’s over 35 and is past his prime.It’s that what the last 5 contracts been?

  18. ChristisKing says:

    Wouldn’t mind seeing the Yankees land Kendry Morales for scraps, if the Angels are serious about moving him and the Yankees need that DH type

    • forensic says:

      They’re not trading him ‘for scraps’. And while the Yanks do need a DH-type guy, Morales is between bad and terrible as a righty against lefties, which is what they could really use.

  19. matt montero says:

    Just curious, what do you guys think the Yankees could get for Hughes, if they allow an extension period (assuming he’s open to it).

  20. Simon says:

    If you were the Yankees, given the choice of salary dump, who would you take: Alfonso Soriano from the Cubs or Vernon Wells from the Angels?

    I think I’d choose Soriano. Soriano is 2 years older but has better #’s.

    • forensic says:

      There’s no door #3 option?

      Given the choice, I think I’d certainly go for Soriano. The only thing he seems to be worse than Wells at right now is making contact (and maybe defense but I haven’t looked at those numbers), and he may even have the ability left to have a fluke OK year, but I don’t see that in Wells. Soriano has also been better against lefties in recent seasons which is something the Yanks could use.

    • Brian S. says:

      Ronnier Mustelier

  21. Scooter says:

    If Hughes has a good year… he will get what Anibal Sanchez got for a salary. 15/year – Thus say 4/60 or 5/75…. Anibal’s total numbers last year were not that good…

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      I think he has to get less than Sanchez who has been pretty consistent the last 3 years as about a 3.0 bWAR pitcher compared to Hughes who has been 1.9, -0.2 and1.6 the past 3 years.

      Unless Hughes has a much improved season over last years, I can’t see how you can give him more than $10-$11 million AAV over 4-5 years.

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