Saturday Night Open Thread

Cashman: "I am not looking for bullpen help"
Update: Rangers sign Lance Berkman

Here’s your open thread for the evening. The Bengals and Texans are playing right now, then a little later tonight you have the Vikings at the Packers (both games on NBC). The Knicks and Nets are both playing as well. Talk about any or all of those games here. Enjoy.

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Cashman: "I am not looking for bullpen help"
Update: Rangers sign Lance Berkman
  • Austin Aunelowitzky

    Who has a good Irish Pub recommendation for me to watch the BCS title game in mid-town?

    • http://twitter.com/_swarlesbarkley Drew

      Irish Exit or McFoleys

    • TomH

      I’m a nervous wreck about this game, out of practice after the nearly 20 years of Irish decline.

      • Austin Aunelowitzky

        I’ll be rooting for ND (and I’m a BC boy.) Can’t root for rednecks.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      I honestly don’t know my Irish pubs. Probably can’t go wrong with the fratty bars along Amsterdam in the 70’s or 80’s, or down in Murray Hill.

      • Austin Aunelowitzky

        Haha, I thought you were preparing an alphabetized list cross referencing beer selections, food offerings and cross streets.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I’m actually not good with Manhattan bars, and things change a ton. If you were asking for a spot in Park Slope, yeah, I probably could do that. :)

          I’m like this in real life as well.

  • MannyGeee

    OK this has been puzzling me for a few days… Anyone in here have any OT or PT experience that can tell me what “prehab” is for A Rods surgery is? Define prehab, that is all.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      He has to strengthen the area around his hip before the surgery to make sure everything heals properly. He could end up hurting something else during rehab.

      • Blake

        A true Centaur would just use their 3 good legs and forget this prehab nonsense

    • Jacob

      Ughhh I hated that shit. I have terrible knees and I had to strengthen them, my hips, and my legs for like 2 to 3 months. That is what Alex has to do, probably just the hip though

      • MannyGeee

        Thanks, so basically it’s strengthing muscles around the injured hip so he doesn’t blow something out when he starts rehabbing. Interesting…..

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Right, and I’ve definitely heard about people being “not ready for surgery.” Makes a ton of sense.

          • jjyank

            Wasn’t Mo himself doing the same thing before his surgery? I know he had the blood clot, but I thing part of the “delay” was the same strengthening thing.

  • baravelli

    Polonia had fouled off a bunch of pitches before the play in the video above, each time seeming to time Wetteland’s fastball better and better. Outfield couch José Cardenal saw this, and so, a pitch or two before this ball was hit, moved O’Neill a few steps over to his right. If that hadn’t happened, O’Neill probably doesn’t get to this ball, and most likely both runners on base score and the Yankees lose the game.
    I still get retrospectively nervous about this.

    • Steve (different one)

      My heart just started beating again from the towering pop fly Jim Thome hit off El Duque in game 4 of the 1998 ALCS….

  • Yogiism

    Reality: Lance Berkman will be receiving a guaranteed $11mm in 2013. Wow. And to think the Yanks had interest. That likely lasted for about 5 minutes once they understood how the market would shake out for him.

    Make believe: Gary Sanchez, Mason Williams, Michael Pineda, Dellin Betances, Ivan Nova (3 yrs control and useful cheap mid/back starter while they rebuild) for Giacarlo Stanton and Ricky Nolassco and his $11.5mm contract for 2013, which the Yanks could actually do. Solidifies the 5th rotation spot and facilitates the trade for the Marlins to shed the salary.

    ^ does anyone do that deal?

    • Robinson Tilapia

      I’m strongly reading this over. My love goggles for Gary Sanchez may not make me the best person to answer this. I also move away from wanting farm system-gutting megadeals in era in which I want the team producing as many potential homegrown guys as possible. Trading several them in one shot for one guy, no matter how good that guy is, just seems counterproductive.

      I get the counterargument to that. I don’t need it repeated to me. No one’s a sure thing, most prospects fail, yadda yadda yadda.

      I think the deal is honestly built incorrectly. I think Pineda and Betances both in this deal makes for two huge question marks out of five pieces. That’s some big roles of the dice for a franchise player. I think you’re just better off putting Nunez, or even Gardner, in there.

      Williams, Nunez, Nova, Montgomery, and a real Viscaino-like lottery ticket like DePaula? My trade proposal REALLY sucks.

      • Yogiism

        Fair enough. Truth is, I could see Pineda doing very well in that climate and market in Miami. I do believe (more of an assumption than anything) that he will heal fine. Kid is young. This wasn’t a 37 year old who had 1000 innings on his arm. I think Pineda still has massive upside. He has a proven MLB appearance, albeit limited. Nova actually adds a lot of little value, since he too has pitched well at the MLB level. Not to our liking of course, but solid cheap arm for 3 years while they rebuild. Better than dropping $9-$12mm and a 2 year deal on a Saunders type, which is ultimately what the Marlins will need to do in the next 2 years just to maintain or field a team. I agree with Betances. It was just a random name I plucked. This is a kid that broke top 50 prospect charts. The stuff is there. He’s just a mechanical mess. Again, he’s still pretty young and it would be a mistake for any fan to write him off completely. Nonetheless; the Yanks have pieces and I’ve found it pretty interesting (maybe just reading into it too much) that Cashman has remained very coy about his right handed hitting options. Part of me genuinely believes he watching the Upton and Stanton situations closely and would pounce. The Yanks could deal all the aforementioned players and still retain Banuelos, DePaula (glad you mentioned him – I’m a fan) and Tyler Austin as their big three in my opinion. I’d be very satisfied with that result. Taking on $11.5mm for Nolassco has its value to the Marlins as well.

        • Yogiism

          I said: “a lot of a little” which is a crazy contradiction. You probably go the point though.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        Yeah, that proposal seems very light for the Marlins.

      • The Doctor (formerly known as G formerly known as Matt Smith fornerly known as David Tennant formerly known as etc)

        Definitely not enough. Swap Austin in for Williams and add Sanchez? Maybe. Could leave Williams in but I’m staying away from at trade that gives up both him and Sanchez.

      • The Doctor (formerly known as G formerly known as Matt Smith fornerly known as David Tennant formerly known as etc)

        Definitely not enough. Swap Austin in for Williams and add Sanchez? Maybe. Could leave Williams in but I’m staying away from any trade that gives up both him and Sanchez.

        Sorry if this is a double, caught a typo after submitting.

    • Get Phelps Up

      I think both teams say no to that trade.

      Also I agree with you on Berkman. I wanted him, but $11M is way too much for someone who was limited to under 100 plate appearances because of injury.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        Yeah. That’s way beyond what I’d pay for him. No thanks.

        • trr

          why is this even under discussion? He’s 30 lbs overweight and washed up like old seaweed

    • Havok9120

      The Yanks almost certainly would. The Marlins, however, would probably laugh you outta the room.

      • Havok9120

        Actually, “almost certainly” is far too strong. But I still think they’d have to pull the trigger on that, and I’m not a Stanton hugger. It’s a bunch of damaged goods and guys so far from the show that you can’t take them as more than high-potential lottery tickets. Nova is also a not-insignificant question mark.

    • Steve (different one)

      I was very surprised at what Berkman got. I was thinking more like $5M with $3M in incentives. I wasn’t even close.

      • Yogiism

        Even then; that’s a stretch. I expect more of a Ibanez 2012 type of deal. I wouldn’t have been surprised to see a $4mm deal with about $1mm of incentives for plate appearances. $11mm total is just dumb. Rangers have had a very unusual offseason.

        • forensic

          This seemingly vast overpay is kind of what I was expecting out of the Rangers for Pierzynski after missing out on some things earlier in the offseason. It’s very confusing for someone like Berkman at this point.

    • forensic

      If the Marlins would actually say yes to that deal, I don’t think I could say no as the Yankees. I consider Betances basically a non-factor at this point, Pineda has the odds against him with his surgery, and Nova is kind of a 50-50 shot at this point given his two seasons (though I am optimistic he can be closer to the good side than the bad side). That leaves two A-level guys who still have a ways to go prior to being productive (if they even get there) in the majors. Stanton, though he has some warts and an argument could be made for him almost being a slower Granderson (though seemingly not quite to Granderson’s level of frustration sometimes yet), fills a bunch of holes on the team including corner OFer and right-handed power source. I’m not thrilled to be taking on Nolasco’s salary, but I’ll consider it the cost of doing business for the one year he’d affect things.

  • Camd80

    Anybody want to talk about Francisco Cervelli ? I think this is gonna be a fantastic opportunity to watch this guy come into his real identity…..PASSION……HUSTLE……EVERYDAY ! Me thinks he will be fine ! I love watching him play !

    • Robinson Tilapia

      I like him too. No matter how much we like him, we’re going to be cursing all that passion and hustle once we see it playing every day.

      • MannyGeee

        everyone loves the hustle until he launches a throw or 3 to Cano Gardner

    • forensic

      I’m actually moderately optimistic about him and don’t think the drop off from Martin will be as bad as people are making it out to be. I think he might be able to hang around a .700ish OPS (as he basically has in his career until now), and if he does it’s pretty close to Martin, likely a little more BA/OBP and little less SLG. If he gets his defense settled down, that’d be fine production.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        His defense needs to settle down a lot.

        I agree he could be close to Martin in terms of overall offense.

      • Get Phelps Up

        His wRC+ in 454 plate appearances from 2010 and 2011 was just 1 point lower than Martin’s last year.

        It’s the defense that’s definitely going to be downgraded though. Martin doesn’t throw the ball into centerfield every other stolen base attempt.

    • Alkaline

      What worries me is how poorly he did in aaa this year. I really like him and hope he succeeds, though. I thought we would have seen him up this past year after making a point to the front office with solid minor league play, but alas.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        And, just when you think you’ve got him figured out, he could hit .270 and play at least average defense. You just never know.

  • Camd80

    Ha ! You might be right but I hope you are not……..Go Franky !

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Oh, I definitely hope you’re right.

  • Camd80

    I’m excited for him…I think he will do fine !

    • Get Phelps Up

      An official member of #TeamCervelli?

      • Havok9120

        Seems so.

  • Alkaline

    How’e everyone doing?

    • Get Phelps Up

      I’m doing good. How about yourself?

      • The Doctor (formerly known as G formerly known as Matt Smith fornerly known as David Tennant formerly known as etc)

        No, Superman does good, you’re doing well. You gotta work on yo grammuh SON.

        … Sorry don’t actually care just a good 30 Rock quote

    • forensic

      I’m good. Finished my last day of dayshift today! I’m so happy to be done with that. How u doin’?

      • Alkaline

        Awesome. Although, I’m a bit surprised you’re happy to be done with dayshift. I guess it depends what you’re occupation is.

        I’m doing well. I recently go promoted to a FT job (finally!), so I’m adjusting to that and enjoying it.

        • forensic

          Cool, congrats.

          My job is a bit more fun at night (better calls from our perspective), but a lot of it is just me not being a morning person (the weather out here was a factor too). Getting up at 4:30 in the morning was a killer. I can work nights or through the night with no problem whatsoever, but I wanted to do days for a bit for new baby reasons. That’s not as important anymore.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      So far? I’ve had a great day. Got to relieve some cabin fever while still spending time with the family, my wife claims she saw ARod drive by, and am waiting on some serious good pizza while enjoying a very nice drink with the first season of “Boardwalk Empire” waiting.

      • Alkaline

        Good to hear. That’s a show I need to watch. I love that time period.

        Also, you killed me when I was at work and I read your gollum/smeagol impression of the trolls about the prospects.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          We need to get you more work then. :)

          Thanks, though. Glad to hear I made you laugh.

          • Alkaline

            ha! Please don’t. It was during lunch and thankfully a quiet week. I won’t be so lucky the next couple. :P

  • ThatstheMelkyMesaWaysa

    I’ve seen on many of the articles here that we commenters consider the Yankees a “win now” team. People have referenced moves that back this up such as signing Alex and, of course, the Tex, CC, AJ signing prior to the ’09 season. Why is it, then, that now, when the Yanks are looking as bad as they have since pre-1995 if you ask me, they’re doing nothing? If this were 10 years ago wouldn’t they have already signed Stanton, Upton, AND Hamilton? They’d probably be in conversations with Lohse too. Management hasn’t changed hugely since then in the front office, at least. So is there any explanation for the lack of moves? I realize the $189MM budget is a big issue, but what’s so bad about paying the luxury tax? Didn’t we all watch “Too Much Money-Ball?”

    • Get Phelps Up

      Well for one, Stanton and Upton aren’t free agents…

      • forensic

        Details, details…

      • ThatstheMelkyMesaWaysa

        Even so, they are big names who are clearly being shopped/on the market (and it’s not like there aren’t prospects we could give for them) so it worries me (and many others) that they’re doing nothing. It seems like the front office has resolved itself to the idea that the team is entering a rebuilding era.

        • Get Phelps Up

          There’s still time to do something. At this time last year, Nova and AJ were the Yankees 2-3 starters.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      “If this were 10 years ago wouldn’t they have already signed Stanton, Upton, AND Hamilton?”

      Putting what GPU said aside, this is more someone’s wet dream at 3 AM as to what the Yankees ever were in their history than reality.

      The real question is what the mid-90’s version of the commenters here would think of Chad Curtis and an aging Darryl Strawberry,

      • Sweet Dick Willie

        To be fair, 4 years ago they did sign CC, AJ and Tex.

        (And to be equally fair, got lambasted by the MSM for doing so.)

        • Robinson Tilapia

          It also came after an off-season where they were equally lambasted for not doing anything when Johan Santana was standing right over there —————>

    • forensic

      what’s so bad about paying the luxury tax?

      I’m sure nothing from the perspective of you sitting in your living room.

      When you’re the one writing the check, there’s plenty bad about it.

      • ThatstheMelkyMesaWaysa

        My point there (which admittedly I did not convey well) was that if they’ve been paying it for years prior, why the sudden unwillingness to do so?

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          Now, in addition to the direct luxury tax and payroll savings, they would also be eligible for market disqualification program revenue sharing rebates as well. And their luxury tax rate would reset for future years. There is more incentive to get under the luxury tax threshold now than there ever was before.

          • ThatstheMelkyMesaWaysa

            That stems from the revised CBA?

            • Need Pitching & Hitting

              yes

        • forensic

          Because its getting higher than its ever been and 1 or 2 years under can partially or completely reset it.

          Not to mention that they shouldn’t have to spend $200 million to be able to field a competitive. Some of the bad contracts they have now are the main things making it an issue, but they brought that on themselves. Plenty of teams in the $100-$125 million range have been more than competitive over time, which is probably around what they have to spend beyond the couple of ‘albatrosses’.

  • Alkaline

    Random, but I’m really looking forward to seeing the Railriders this year. It killed me not having a AAA team around last year.

  • Nick

    I don’t know whats worse. Joe Webb or Leslie Frasiers play calling

  • long ron daniels

    jim leyritz was a big jerk. momma done got that big ol’ behind. I enjoy a plate of warmed ocean fish, along with a tall kewl glass of icy milk. lets go the yankees.. win the most! true.

    • forensic

      um… Yeah?

      or… No?

    • RetroRob

      That’s some wild shit you’re on.

  • Jonathan

    And Buster Olney’s top 10 lists continue to be ridiculous. Indians and Yankees don’t make the top 11 bullpens in baseball apparently….

    • forensic

      Don’t really care about the Indians.

      The Yankees maybe should be up there, but to play devil’s advocate, there are several questions out there. Robertson is easily the closest thing to a sure-thing out there, and he’s terrific. But, Mo is coming off a serious injury to his push-off knee/leg. Joba is gonna be in his first full year off TJ and other surgeries. He was dominant in his last 10 innings, but the first full year back could still be a bit of a mystery. Aardsma is even more of a question than Joba due to age and not having gotten as many innings last season (and he even had control issues before the surgery). Rapada can get lefties, but there’s limited value in that. Logan is coming off a career high workload and there’s a chance that affects him adversely. The long man should be ok, but you never know.

      • Jonathan

        Right…I agree..if absolutely everything goes wrong they aren’t a top 10 pen but you can do that with every player and bullpen. I seriously doubt Rivera’s ACL will have any effect on him whatsoever. Joba has been great in the pen basically his entire career except for control issues stemming from them rushing him back too early from TMJ because they didn’t want to trade for bullpen help. After he was recovered he was the same guy he’s been for years now. Aardsma is like the 5th or 6th inning guy..he’s just icing if he’s good. Not to mention we have a very strong history of getting cheap bullpen options out of nowhere. Plus Montgomery will probably be ready by the second half of the year. And Rapada is a LOOGY…that’s what he does. How many LHRPs out there are good at getting both out? With Logan/Rapada/Cabral that’s plenty of insurance for your doomsday scenarios. This isn’t 1945. Bullpens are specialized. Even Eppley was great at his role last year and he’ll be in AAA. Logan could have issues or he could be fine. It won’t make or break the bullpen. Rivera/Robertson/Joba plus possibly Phelps/Nova and all that depth makes it a very very good bullpen with lots of options.

    • RetroRob

      The Yankees have had one of the top ten bullpens pretty much every year since the Girardi era. They will again. I don’t see that ending in 2013.

    • Get Phelps Up

      Do we really care what Olney thinks?

  • Pat D

    Holy shit, we might actually have hockey this year?

    • MannyGeee

      meh… at this point its hard to get hard for it… just seems like it could have all been avoided, makes them all look like spoiled rich pricks

      • Pat D

        I blame the owners, as I usually do. I’m not saying I’m getting hard for it, since if the Rangers play like shit I won’t care, I’m kind of amazed they finally agreed to something.