Sunday Night Open Thread


Got some news to share. About three weeks ago I was approached by CBS Sports about contributing to their MLB coverage, and long story short, you’ll be able to read more of my stuff at their Eye on Baseball blog starting tomorrow. I’ll be writing about all of baseball over there, not just the Yankees, which is what I enjoy the most to be honest. There are only so many times you can write about Alex Rodriguez‘s hip or the lack of a DH or getting under the luxury tax threshold before you bore yourself to death.

RAB, however, is not going anywhere. I’ll still be writing and praising and complaining about the Yankees regularly in this space, and in fact I’ll still be contributing to FanGraphs (and RotoGraphs) as well. MLBTR is a thing of the past though, something had to go and yesterday was my last day. It was a fun three and a half years, but there are only so many hours in the day. I’m lucky enough that I’ll have the best of both worlds with in-depth analysis (RAB and FanGraphs) and casual baseball writing (Eye on Baseball). It’ll be fun, hopefully you check it out.

Anyway, here is your open thread for the night. The Ravens and Patriots are playing (on CBS) for the right to face either the Falcons or the 49ers in the Super Bowl, plus the Rangers are in action as well. Talk about either game or anything else here. Go nuts.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Jacob The OG (formerly Jacob) says:

    Congrats Mike! Wish you the best there and I am sure I speak for everyone when I say we are glad you are still running the show here at RAB!

  2. Blake says:

    Congrats that’s cool

  3. Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

    Congrats Mike, but jeez…leave some jobs for some of us that hope to break into the bizz someday =P

  4. Rooting for U.S. Steel says:

    Mike, congratulations. Producing quality content day after day is damned hard work — doubly so during the off season — and you’ve done a hell of a job maintaining a fun, informative, and professional site. CBS Spots clearly knows talent, and you’ll be a great addition to their team.

    And yes, it’s reassuring to know RAB isn’t going anywhere!

  5. 23553 says:

    Congratulations, look forward to reading more from you.

  6. Cool Lester Smooth (formerly YanksFanInBeantown) says:

    Congrats, Mike! That’s awesome

  7. Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

    Hey guys, as some of you know I’m going back to school again on Tuesday, on top of that I will also be writing for the school’s news paper. I will mostly be doing features and editorials, so I was wondering if you guys would be willing to critique my review of Zero Dark Thirty; https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z4H01zWBlgTHfntwvorWFFKLjv-_ldmxNMmpEE2utA0/edit

    Last time I was with them I wound up as Sports Editor because nobody else wanted the gig. I was directly told by the EIC at the time to keep coverage on the school’s sporting teams and not branch out to the professional sports in the region. I understood her reasoning, we’re only a monthly paper, the problem was that as a community college all but a few of the sports were intramural, and because of the state of the school’s facilities, almost all the games happened on the road making it a bitch to cover for somebody in school and working full time. As such I’ve agreed to come back on in a much more limited role as staff writer, and hopefully occasional sports writer.

    • hogsmog says:

      What’s the deal with this in-comment ad thing? This is new, right? I guess I have no business telling you how to run the site, but I find this really irritating.

    • Rooting for U.S. Steel says:

      What’s the best way of getting thoughts on this to you privately?

      • Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

        If you really don’t want to just say them here, email me at carbone.jeff@gmail.com. I don’t get why you can’t share any criticism here, but feel free to email me.

    • Bob Buttons says:

      Before I say anything I have to say that I’m not sure about many things since I have friends of various academic achievements so sometimes our various bad grammatical habits rub off on one another. So if I make mention of something I might be the one who’s wrong.

      2nd paragraph I’m not sure if it should be “lived up the expectations” or “lived up to the expectations”. “act 1″ might need capitalization.

      5th paragraph “cameos from some of the most well known TV shows of the past and today” sounds a bit strange to me.. maybe putting “actor” instead of “shows”. And I think it should be “The Sopranos”. Also you should consider fragmenting the first sentence in the paragraph because it is a bit on the long side.

      But other than minor things overall it sounds pretty well written.

      • Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

        Thanks, I wrote this at like 1am last night, I got an email from the layout editor saying that they needed a few more stories and if I had seen any movies I’d like to review, so the mistakes you mentioned (which I just fixed and thanks by the way) were just overlooked.

        • Bob Buttons says:

          No problem. I don’t think many people are good at finding mistakes late night, and we all know how much spell-checker helps.

    • Pat D says:

      Gotta be honest. I don’t want to read the review until I’ve seen the movie.

      • Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

        Completely understandable. I’m very critical of the film, and I don’t want to ruin it for you before you’ve had a chance to see it.

  8. Get Phelps Up says:

    Congrats and I wish you the best Mike, and look forward to reading your work over there.
    I will also echo those above who are happy you will still be here at RAB!

  9. JW says:

    Congrats, Mike. Nice to see that they’re looking for a different kind of voice in addition to Heyman and Knobler, and I’ll definitely be keeping an eye out for your work.

  10. Pasqua says:

    Congratulations, Mike. Very, very well-deserved!

  11. Dg says:

    Wow, that’s really awesome Mike! I look forward to reading more of your stuff!

  12. RetroRob says:

    Great news. Always good to see hard work rewarded. I admit, I was a little concerned when you mentioned a few weeks back that you had very positive news on your side and then you disappeared last week. I figured the next news we heard was announcement you were leaving for greener pastures. Glad you’ll still be around, and congrats.

  13. Andy Pettitte's Fibula (formerly Manny's BanWagon) says:

    Congrats on your new gig.

    Mike “Buster Olney lite” Axisa.

  14. Bob Buttons says:

    Congrats Mike, and here’s to RAB’s continued brilliance.

  15. Mister D says:

    Congrats, Mike.

  16. JLC 776 says:

    Best of luck, Mike – I’m glad that you get to grow to better things and still contribute here as well. Congrats!

  17. Greg says:

    Now you’ll have a wider audience to convince that Mosteluer should be our fourth outfielder and DH. Oh wait; that was me.

    • Havok9120 says:

      At least spell his name right once in awhile if you’re going to be his champion.

      I mean, I used to think it was a joke the first 2 or 3 spellings you went through, but now I’m not so sure.

  18. jjyank says:

    Congrats, Mike. Nice to see that your hard work here is getting some recognition from outside publications. Keep it up!

  19. Bob Buttons says:

    I think time is appropriate to bring this up again.


    • Bob Buttons says:

      Disclaimer: In certain cases I try to look at pure talent besides stats (when stats seem to tip the scale in Musial’s favour). After all, it is about “best players” not just “players who put up best stats”. Also, this is not a knock on Musial. I agree that he is an all-time great. I just don’t agree that he’s top 10 for batters. Also, since I’ll use OPS+ a lot, Musial is at 159, as a startpoint.

      Ruth – Need I say anything? Better BA, more HR, revolutionized the game, and was a pretty good pitcher too.
      Gehrig – Durability (not that Musial wasn’t durable), more HRs, better OPS+.
      Mays – Similar OPS+ (Musial at 159, him at 156), significant more SB and HRs, better defensive reputation.
      Cobb – Bigot or not, he’s got better OPS+, and tons more SBs.
      Aaron – OPS+ at 155, more HRs and a load of doubles, plus more SBs.
      Mantle – The Commerce Comment posted 172 OPS+. Also, more HRs and more SBs.
      Williams – You may think that 190 OPS+ is watered-down at Fenway, but Williams was a pull-hitter and his splits were 1.148 at home and 1.082 away.
      DiMaggio – Many seasons where he hit more HRs than SOs, and an awesome fielder was as graceful as any of the older legends. All the while playing at Yankee Stadium with the Death Valley and probably told not to try full-out since the Yankees were fearing for his legs (and for good reasons). Plus, he was once almost traded for Ted Williams straight up. That’s gotta account for something, right? His OPS+ ain’t much shabbier than Musial’s, clocking in at 155. Injury history aside he is a better player than Musial (even when you pick Musial’s best years)
      Wagner – Similar OPS+, better fielder and superior baserunner.
      Hornsby – Superior OPS+ and probably a better fielder. Not exactly the worst manager either.
      Speaker – Defensive legend (who played like a fifth infielder), 157 OPS+, holds MLB record for doubles, and of course, more SBs. Speed is a valuable skill, especially back then.

      I could list more but I think that I’ve made my point. I count 11 players whom I deem better than Musial, and I think that the only not-so-solid case is DiMaggio, where I relied on “what if” a bit more than the others.

      • Pat D says:

        Hornsby’s managerial career was spotty at best. Sure, he won the 1926 World Series, but because he wore out his welcome as a player, he never had any consistency as a manager. He spent the majority of his career managing pathetic St. Louis Browns teams, so his overall W-L record is lacking.

        • Bob Buttons says:

          He wasn’t the worst, and that’s all I can say. I honestly can’t say if he was good or bad from what little I can find about his managerial years. But one gutsy move worked out very well.

          Bringing in Grover Cleveland Alexander in the 7th inning of game 7 in 1926 on zero day’s rest. Though if Ruth didn’t try to steal a base maybe someone would have drove him in.

      • RetroRob says:

        I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. You’re cherry-picking some stats, and then throwing in very subjective narrative points with no supporting evidence. Okay, Cobb stole more bases, but how many times was he thrown out? Also, Cobb made more errors than any OFer of his generation and the defensive ratings we have shows he was at best average, others below average. (I’ll add that all defensive statistics, especially retoactive, should be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism.) Musial, on the other hand, was extremely versatile defensively, playing across all OF positions, LF, RF and CF. He also played first base. The defensive stats show he was quite good. He was also rated as a very good baserunner. It is quite likely that Musial was a better defensive player than Cobb, and a number of the players mentioned.

        You state that you just don’t agree that he’s top 10 for batters, but then you start talking about non-batting attributes. Fangraphs and B-R both have Musial in the top ten WAR offensively. I can accept that Musial might fall just off the top ten when viewed overall (although I’m not sure), but I’m quite sure he is one of the ten greatest hitters ever.

      • RetroRob says:

        BTW This has nothing to do with your post, but your mention of Cobb and that fact he was a bigot is timely. That of course is correct. Cobb was a racist, yet it’s safe to say that the majority of players from Cobb’s generation, as well as the management of teams, the leagues offices, and the majority of the population were bigots. When it came to racism, Cobb was no outlier. He fit in quite “nicely” with the America of those times.

        We all now know of crazy stories about Cobb, the man hated by all, and not just opposing players. Even his teammates. We hear them repeated by sports reporters on TV, in print, on the Internet. The stories are accepted as fact. Here’s the problem. About 90% of these stories are false, and can be attributed to one man, Al Stump.

        I finally got around to seeing the movie “Cobb” last week when MLBN ran it. I avoided it for years because of poor reviews when it first came out. I watched it and was surprised to see that it was much better than I thought, yet there was something very uncomfortable about the movie, and how the writer, Al Stump, injected himself into the story. So I started to do some research. Wow. Our entire modern perception of Ty Cobb is based pretty much on Al Stump and the second bio he wrote on Cobb, which eventually was turned into the movie. The problem with that is the book and then the movie is mostly fiction, yet man of the stories in it get repeated as fact.

        One example. We always hear about how Cobb was so hated that basically no teammates attended his funeral. That’s true, but not for the reasons Stump manufactured. Most of Cobb’s baseball acquaintances were either dead or quite old. Yet many players actually did want to attend the funeral and even serve as pallbearers. The Cobb family made the funeral private, limiting it to family, local friends and relatives.

        Cobb was racially intolerant. No doubt about it. Yet later in life his views evolved and said that black and white players should play together. He admired Jackie Robinson, and spoke highly of Willie Mays (well, for Cobb, that is). I’m in no way attempting to apologize for Cobb’s attitude toward race during his career, or several incidents were he attacked people. Just noting context needs to be applied to incidents 100 years back. Tris Speaker, for example, was a member of the KKK. Cobb, sadly, was not alone in his ignorance.

        He never sharpened his spikes for the purpose of cutting opposing players. His style of play and sliding was practiced by all players during that time. He was just better at it.

        Al Stump stole from Ty Cobb and his estate. He fabricated stories. Plagerized. Forged documents. All of this has been proven. Al Stump was a far worse man than Ty Cobb.

      • TomH says:

        There’s something wrong with you.

    • Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

      Congrats on the job Mike, great news.

      Is Tom Brady the greatest QB ever, or does he need to get to/win this next SB to be put in that category?


  20. CT Yankee says:

    Congrats, Ax.

    Wish ya all the best.

  21. Pat D says:

    Congratulations, Mike. Hate to be the guy who sees the negative, but this makes me afraid that they’ll like you so much that eventually this will be the end of RAB. Or the beginning of the end. Sorry to be pessimistic, I’m just hating the football going on right now.

  22. MannyGeee says:

    First off, congrats Mike, you’re the man.

    Did anyone expect Ray Lewis to actually get TO the game without crying? 6:38,1/2way through the National Anthem… Way to go, big guy…

    • Bob Buttons says:

      Well helps if you’ve seen For Love of the Game.

    • Pat D says:

      Can’t wait till the fucking Ray Lewis narrative is over.

      Ya know, it makes me wonder. The football hall of fame has some kind of character clause-type requirement in their voting guidelines. Wonder if any of those guys will have the balls to deny Lewis election in his first year of eligibility. Guessing not.

  23. LK says:

    Congrats, Mike. I’m sure you’ll do a great job as always.

  24. toad says:

    RIP, Stan Musial.

    3630 hits. 475 HR’s. Lost a year to military service in WWII. Hit .330 with 19HR at age 41.

    No PED’s.

  25. Pat D says:

    Continuing on from last night: http://riveraveblues.com/2013/.....nt-5584637.

    I agree that the NCAA tournament is an extreme crapshoot. But keep in mind that Jim Boeheim has been at Syracuse since 1976 and has only made 3 Final Four appearances.

    Here are some coaches with as many or more Final Four Appearances in that same time frame:
    Mike Krzyzewski, 11
    Dean Smith, 7 (and he made 11 overall)
    Roy Williams, 7
    Tom Izzo, 6
    Rick Pitino, 6
    Lute Olson, 5
    Jim Calhoun, 4
    John Calipari, 4
    Denny Crum, 4 (6 overall)
    Jerry Tarkanian, 4
    Larry Brown, 3
    Billy Donovan, 3
    Steve Fisher, 3
    Ben Howland, 3
    Bob Knight, 3 (5 overall)
    Guy Lewis, 3 (5 overall)
    Nolan Richardson, 3
    Eddie Sutton, 3
    John Thompson, 3

    A lot of those guys have coached fewer years than Boeheim, too, so the case can definitely be made that Boeheim has underachieved to a certain extent.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      Dean Smith won 2 championships, Boeheim won once so far.
      Smith had far, far more talented players over the years compared to Boeheim with a big part being of that being Carolina’s geographic location so it’s pretty easy to make a case that Smith severely underachieved too. How he only once once in Jordan’s 3 years , which was by the skin of his teeth, really was amazing. Had Carmelo stayed 2 more years Iike Jordan, Boeheim vey well may have been tied with Smith.

      • Pat D says:

        I agree that Smith underachieved. I’ve said so before. The Kenny Smith injury ruined Jordan’s last year.

        • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

          Jordan won 6 NBA titles with Steve Kerr and John Paxton at PG. With Jordan, Sam Perkins, Brad Daugherty and Matt Doherty on that team, losing Smith shouldn’t have made that big of a difference.

          • Pat D says:

            Differences between college and the pros. Differences in the way the game was played and coached. I’m really too young to comment, I’m just kind of regurgitating my father’s opinions on the matter. I was still a toddler during those years.

            Like I’ve said before, the way Carolina lost under Smith in years like ’91, ’94, ’95 and ’97 still haunt me.

            • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

              College BB used to be so great. It’s a shame what it’s become with all the best players jumping ship after 1 year.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      That said, I’ve never thought of Boeheim as a top 5 all time coach. More like top 25 maybe, regardless of how many wins he ends up with.

    • Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

      Hot damn, I knew Coach K was good but I didn’t realize he was THAT good.

  26. Mr RSU says:

    Congrats Mike! Look forward to reading your CBS stuff! As long as this site remains and you remain EIC and it keeps being one of my favorite sites on the INTERNET, I’m cool. As long as you’re happy, of course!

  27. Alkaline says:

    Congrats Mike. I’ve been lurking for years and only recently started to post, but I absolutely love the content. Whether I agree with you or not, you do a fantastic job articulating both sides of an argument.

    This place, comments included, have completely altered my view on baseball. I still play competitively and I’ve reached the climax of my ability there, but I feel this just place just introduced me to a whole new side of the game (informed fan).

    A phillies fan (friend of mine) complimented me the other day about the in-depth knowledge I had about the CBA and Yankees plan/farm system for the 189 deal. Lots of people don’t understand/know what’s going on in the Yankee world and how much it could change the next couple of year.

  28. MannyGeee says:

    Helmet to helmet from Mr Class Ray Lewis… Can’t wait for him to be gone.

  29. Bob Buttons says:

    Is it just me or the Ravens’ player slapped a Patriot in the face?

    • MannyGeee says:

      Yup. Classy dudes. I have an irrational hate for the Ravens, all stemming from Ray Ray. Jerk

      • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

        If the Ravens could beat the 49ers, I don’t care if he retires to Miami and becomes Dexter II.

        • MannyGeee says:

          That said, I completely agree… Since, we’ll, as I’ve mentioned before many times on these pages…. Fuck Colin Kaepernick.

          • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

            Fuck anyone wearing a 49ers jersey. A pox on them and their houses

            • Pat D says:

              Just saw on ESPN.com that a 49ers fan stabbed a Falcons fan after the game today. Apparently there was an argument, the Falcons fan threw a punch and the 49ers fan conveniently had a knife. Glad to know security was tight.

              Can’t wait to see if the NRA will weigh in on this, saying if only the Falcons fan had a gun…

              • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

                Saw that too. I guess that 49er fans post game celebration was ruined being arrested for attempted murder and all

              • Reuben Sierra's Chains says:

                Or of course we could just ban all knives…

                I mean that wouldn’t be an overreaction at all would it?

  30. While he deserves the accolades he gets, it does get quite tiring having Jim Nantz slobber over Tom Brady’s dick every single fucking week.

    I can’t remember the last CBS game the Patriots had (of relevance) that Nantz wasn’t on the call for.

  31. James A says:

    Well not the start to the Rangers season I was looking for

    • James A says:

      Also, congrats Mike, the work on this blog from everyone has always been great and I’m not surprised with the success you guys are having

  32. Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

    Meanwhile, Tony Gonzalez was also in his last playoff run. But nobody gave a shit because Ray Lewis!!! is playing.

    …But I really want the Pats to lose.

    • Get Phelps Up says:

      I hope the Ravens beat the Patriots and then lose in the Super Bowl.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      If he does retire, he’s a sure fire HOFer in 5 years. He’s still playing at an all pro level even this year. Easily a top 5 all time TE. . Only one I saw who I would definitely consider better was Kellen Winslow.

    • Hoss says:

      That was sad! Tony is a great guy, sure HOFer. I was at Cal when he played both football and basketball there. What an athlete.
      I hope that he plays another year and plays for the Giants.

    • This is true. I’m only rooting for Baltimore here because I want the Patriots out. The Ray Lewis story does nothing for me.

      The only problem with Tony Gonzalez (from my POV) is that he was a Falcon. I don’t root for the Falcons, almost ever. But it’s a damn shame he never played in a Super Bowl. At least for him, he did get a playoff victory before he closed the book on his career.

  33. Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

    Reposted from above, since it was in the wrong spot:

    Congrats on the job Mike, great news.

    Is Tom Brady the greatest QB ever, or does he need to get to/win this next SB to be put in that category?


    • Hoss says:

      You’d have to be on a team that didn’t cheat to earn that honor, so Brady is out.
      Peyton is probably the greatest ever in spite of his post-season problems. It’s very tough to make comparisons from different time periods.

      • Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

        Oh, spare me the cheating crap (this venom is not directed at you, I’m railing at how commonly the charge is made). They were caught watching videos of the Jets, who sucked and they were going to be beat anyway. The Patriots were amazing “Spygate” or not, and Brady is still awesome.

        Almost every modern guy on the lines today is taking some sort of steroid. Are they HOFers? MAntle took amphetamines. He cheated. I guess he’s out.

        • Hoss says:

          What they caught was tip of the iceberg of Spygate. It stunk at any magnitude.

          Brady has always had an incredible supporting cast on offense, which is not true for all great QBs.

          I hate the Pats, in case you cannot tell. Go Ravens!

        • Pat D says:

          The Patriots were amazing…until Super Bowl XLVII.

    • MannyGeee says:

      Great discussion (well, considering it was on Boston Sports Radio) on this subject. They seemed to come to the consensus that if he goes to the Super Bowl and loses, his legacy is on the line, as guys like Montana didn’t lose 3 Super Bowls.

      That being said, the fact that he has 6 Super Bowls (in that example) tells a story for itself.

      • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

        The 2 superbowls the Patriots lost were more because plays Asante Samuels and Wes Welker didn’t make rather than anything Brady did.

        Like Giselle said, Brady can’t throw it and catch it too.

        • Pat D says:

          I’d like to give the Giants’ defense some credit for those games, too. To blame those losses solely on Samuel not making what, frankly, would have been a tough catch and Welker dropping an admittedly routine one is a cop out.

          • Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

            “Some” credit is an understatement. Especially in XLII they played a great game.

            Ironically, I disagree with you on your order though. I think Welker’s catch was tougher than it looked and Samuel’s interception should have been caught.

            • Pat D says:

              I still think that Samuel gets too much shit for that play. He had to jump, was up fairly high, and the ball still only deflected off the tips of his fingers. Yea, he could have had it, but people seem to act like it was nothing but easy.

              • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:


                You must be kidding about Samuels. For a guy with 50 career picks know as a ballhawk throughout his career, that was a gimme.

                • Pat D says:

                  I went back and watched it before I posted that comment. That’s my feeling.

                  • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

                    If that was a tough catch for Samuels, what was Tyree’s, miraculous?

                    • Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

                      Uhhhhhh…yes? I kind of did think of it as an amazing one in a million catch.

                    • Pat D says:

                      Pretty much. I didn’t get to see it live, unfortunately, so my reaction to it was muted. But I’m pretty sure I might have shit my pants if I saw it live.

                    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

                      And the catch was only part of it. Eli was almost sacked, just about ” in the grasp” and then broke free and looked like he just heaved it downfield almost indiscriminately.

                      Shiitng my pants of having my head explode were my top 2 reactions.

          • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

            Where did I say the Giants don’t deserve credit?

            I said if you wanna hold those losses against Brady, there are members of his own team who deserve a lot more of the blame than he does.

            • Pat D says:

              Sorry, got a little touchy. I over implied what you said.

              I’m just sick of people acting like the Giants’ wins were flukes. Well, they very well might have been, but they fucking happened. It was pissing me off to see comments during this season from people like Clay Matthews saying, “we gave them that playoff game.” Clay, they beat you by 17 points. That’s not giving away a game. Someone else said something like that, too, so I was getting tired of it.

              • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

                There’s no points for style, Lombardi trophies are forever.

                That said, as a Giants hater, 3 plays will haunt me forever. Those 2 and Scott ” I hope you rot in hell” Norwood.

                • Pat D says:

                  I can understand that. It pretty much goes to show how these things can swing from one side to another on the tiniest of margins.

                  • Pat D says:

                    In terms of how things can swing like that, something that very few people are likely to remember is the Week 2 Game in 1988 between the Giants and 49ers.

                    Check out this play:

                    Nice job, Kenny Hill. Just take Mark Collins completely out of the play so that neither of you make the tackle.

                    If that play isn’t made, and assuming all else plays out the same way for the rest of that season, the 49ers would have missed the playoffs and the Giants would have made the playoffs. The rest of history would be very, very different.

                    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

                      I don’t think either guy was gonna catch Rice there. The safety took a terrible angle.

                      Your overall point is correct though. Just look at last year, if Miles Austin doesn’t “lose a ball in the lights” with what should have been an easy catch, the Giants don’t make the playoffs if I remember correctly.

                    • Pat D says:

                      Exactly. Romo actually overthrew Austin. He was wide open and probably would have scored.

                    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

                      I still think Austin should have caught that. Looked like he wasnt running hard though he was plagued with hamstring pulls all year and looked like he had no burst.

      • Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

        That “But he lost three!” is a real joke. Losing three means he’s BEEN TO 6, and WON three. And he’ll have the best playoff record of all time. That’s a bad argument.

        • Bob Buttons says:

          On a semi-related note, Whitey Ford’s 10 WS wins are undermined by his losses.
          I watch football for entertainment and am only a casual fan, so I won’t comment on the value of playoff wins vs super bowl wins.
          Then again, hard to argue even if it was about playoffs vs world series wins.

        • Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

          It seems almost like you don’t want this topic discussed as much as you want people to agree with you. I personally disagree. I think it’s Peyton Manning by a nose, and I’ll use this example: The year that Brady got hurt and missed the entire year the team still won 10 games or w/e it was and made the playoffs. Peyton went down for a season and the same team that had won 14 games won 2 w/o him. I think Brady, while incredibly talented, won his 3 superbowls because of his defenses more than anything, and he started putting up otherworldly numbers with great supporting pieces. Not saying he’s not an all time great, he’s probably a top 5, but Peyton is the best in this generation if not the best ever.

          • Steve says:

            They didn’t make the playoffs the year he got hurt. Also, winning 10 games a year after winning 18 isn’t an argument in your favor. By the way, Peyton’s team actually did make the playoffs without him this year.

            • Rocky Road Redemption says:

              11, but point still made.

            • Rick says:

              Right, because so many teams win 18 every year and run the table in the regular season. Matt friggen Cassell won 10 with the patriots and then couldn’t do squat on the Chief. Peyton is probably the best qb ever, and it’s really not even close when it comes to Brady. Last time I checked, the QB position is the only one where your legacy is based on how many super bowls you have. By that logic I guess Bruschi is a better LB than Ray Lewis with that argument. Kevin Faulk is better than Barry Sanders, for sure. Rings are the only thing that matter!!!

        • Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

          It seems almost like you don’t want this topic discussed as much as you want people to agree with you. I personally disagree. I think it’s Peyton Manning by a nose, and I’ll use this example: The year that Brady got hurt and missed the entire year the team still won 10 games or w/e it was and made the playoffs. Peyton went down for a season and the same team that had won 14 games won 2 w/o him. I think Brady, while incredibly talented, won his 3 superbowls because of his defenses more than anything, and he started putting up otherworldly numbers with great supporting pieces. Not saying he’s not an all time great, he’s probably a top 5, but Peyton is the best in this generation if not the best ever.

          • Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

            It seems almost like you don’t want this topic discussed as much as you want people to agree with you.

            1) I didn’t say I thought Brady is the best QB ever. I don’t know. Manning is certainly the better regular season QB.

            2) I’ll call it like I see it. The “But he lost three!” argument is bad, as is the “cheating” argument.

            As for your point about Peyton, yeah, I definitely thought of that. But then where do you rank Joe Montana? He won with Jerry Rice as WR. He left and San Fran won AGAIN but with Steve Young. Two HOF QBs, sure…but they both happened to be playing with probably the best WR of all time.

            Also, the Colts might not have won their first year without Manning, but in year two they did pretty well with Luck.

            I think Peyton is best regular season QB of all time, definitely. I’m not sure how much of the postseason you count toward the “best QB” total, though. I mean, Peyton won his SB. Okay. But he really hasn’t won since. Brady is one of the best playoff QBs ever.

            Ultimately, I probably would put Peyton ahead by a hair since he DID win his SB, after all-beating Brady in the process, actually.

  34. MannyGeee says:

    Well, if the Ravens DO in fact win this game, I will at least have some solace that Ray Lewis didn’t really contribute. But he’ll still tear up and cry lie we won an Oscar at the closing whistle. Prick

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      Why do you hate him so much?

      • Pat D says:

        Here’s the main reason I hate him:

        But there’s also the fact that he’s from Miami, a school I’ve always hated passionately.

        There’s also the belief I have that he is a dirty player.

        And finally there’s the way the media sucks his dick as if he’s the greatest defensive player of all time, when he’s not that close to being that.

        • Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

          All of this.

        • MannyGeee says:

          Nailed it. ALL DIS SHIT!

          Plus, I hate the constant crying like he’s putting it on for the camera. And all the “emotional leader” bullshit we keep getting fed….

        • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

          I’m sure whatever team you root for has had its share of thugs and borderline criminals. FB players definitely aren’t choirboys.

          As for dirty, he cut his teeth playing in a division with the Steelers who have been a borderline dirty team since the early 70s.

          As for how great he is, I think you’d have to consider him the best inside LB of the last 30-35 years, right up there with all time greats like Butkus, Jack Ham and Lambert, Mike Singeltary.

          I can see why you’d hate him though, everyone’s entitled to their opinion.

          • Pat D says:

            I root for the Giants. Of course they’ve had unsavory characters. Can’t remember anyone who was on trial for murder, though. I mean, Plaxico only shot himself. Tee hee.

            I don’t care much for the Steelers, either.

            Yes, Lewis is a great player. I was taking the broader view of all defensive players. I’m never gonna rank Lewis ahead of guys like LT, Bruce Smith, Reggie White, Alan Page, Deacon Jones, Deion Sanders, Darrell Green, and others I’m just not remembering right now.

            • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

              Yeah he’s definitely not the best defensive player ever though its hard to compare different positions since inside linebackers in a 3-4 defense are hard to compare to 4-3 DEs, 3-4 OLBs, DBs, etc.

              He might be the best to ever play his position though.

              • Pat D says:

                I’d still take Singletary, Butkus, Ray Nitschke ahead of him.

                • Rick says:

                  The operative word was “might.” You’re entitled to who you want to take, but no one can ever taken Ray Lewis’ on-field ability away from him. He truly might be the best ever to play his position. I agree he’s a dick.

    • The Guns of Navarone says:

      I can deal with Lewis. The last thing I need is another Super Bowl for Tom Terrific. Fuck the Pats.

  35. The Guns of Navarone says:

    Flacco Beast Mode.

  36. Pat D says:

    Unbelievable. This Ravens team looked so dead a little more than a month ago.

    Uh oh. They’re following the same path as the ’07 and ’11 Giants, as well as the ’10 Packers. This means they’re going to win in 2 weeks. Which will give me satisfaction to see the 49ers finally lose a fucking Super Bowl, but will irritate me to no end to see Lewis win again. I’m still bitter about Super Bowl XXXV.

    • Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

      Ravens aren’t my first choice, but better them than the Pats.

      • Pat D says:

        I hated all 4 teams in today’s games. I came to the conclusion that the Patriots were the least of 4 evils, even though another Super Bowl win for them would tie them with the Giants.

        • Hoss says:

          The Patriots are the Red Sox of football. How can that be good?

          • Pat D says:

            …the least of 4 evils…

            Key word: evils.

          • The Guns of Navarone says:

            Except that they win all the damn time. I’ve had my fill of Pats Super Bowls thank you very much. I have no problem seeing any team beat them.

          • MannyGeee says:

            Patriots are more like the the Yankees of football. Dream boy captains, consistent winning in the reg season with mixed results in October/January, gritty white dude playing the role typically held in their leagues by a man of color (wily slot receiver vs. really fast defensive outfielder), hate from everyone in the league and every fan from every other city… Need me to go on?

            • Hoss says:

              You need lessons in geography, history, and world championships.

              • MannyGeee says:

                Geography: Both teams residing in cities in the North East with very heavy colonial roots and both cities have a “larger than most” obsession with their sports.

                History: Both teams are “legacy” teams for their sport. Both teams have had ups and downs.

                World Championships: Yankees have 27 rings, Patriots have 3 over the past decade. Both teams can be considered at some point in their recent (10 yrs for NE, 20 yrs for the Yankees) histories as a “Legacy” candidate.

                Don’t let the “NEVER should anything NY and anything Boston be compared and contrasted, because they are the enemy!!!” narrative steer you away from some level of comparison. If for no other reason, is could lead to an interesting discussion.

                Also, don’t be such an indignant dick. I am just throwing out an observation for conversations sake…

                • Rocky Road Redemption says:

                  What’s wrong is “mixed results in October January”. Both teams have GREAT results in those time periods, with the Yankees being HISTORICALLY great in October. They lose a lot because they’re there a lot. The Yankees are, literally, the greatest postseason team EVER.

          • Bob Buttons says:

            Actually it is much different.

            Giants and Patriots were never in the same division
            They share the same rival (Jets)
            They rarely face off with something of value on the line (before 2007).

            Not that it means much, wikipedia or some site notes that many Pats fans are/were also Giants fans.

        • I am curious where the Falcons register here.

          Niners and Patriots are obvious. Ravens, due to Ray Lewis, is obvious, for someone who hates Ray Lewis. Falcons one is curious, especially since they laid down for the Giants in the playoffs last year.

          • Pat D says:

            Because over the last decade or so, they’d beat the Giants in regular season games they had no business winning. Also, this year’s embarrassment.

            Mostly I don’t like the Falcons because I think they’re pretenders. I don’t think they’re all that good. They should have lost last week. Considering their now consistent playoff failures, I wonder how impatient the fanbase will become.

            • I won’t say you’re wrong, but I honestly cannot remember the Falcons beating the Giants all that much in previous years. In fact, I remember the Giants beating them in 2006 and 2009, and I can’t really remember any others aside from those two, the 2011 playoff meeting, and that shitty game in Week 15 this year. I was also disgusted by that.

              Re: point #2, I couldn’t agree more. Their 56-24 regular season record with Smith and Ryan is about as hollow as it gets, because it should be accompanied by an 0-4 playoff record, though the way they lost today was almost the same way they would’ve lost last week. Given that I have said the Niners are the rich man’s version of the Seahawks, I guess it’s no surprise the Niners won, and the Seahawks lost. I’m still not convinced the Falcons can win when it matters most, and the scrutiny that was on them this year should only be stronger in 2013.

              They’re basically the ’90s version of the Chiefs. Keep going 13-3, keep crapping out in the playoffs. Tony Gonzalez was on a couple of those teams, too. Poor schmuck. His luck is (was) only mildly better than that of Takeo Spikes.

    • Bob Buttons says:

      Glad to see another person bitter about it.

  37. MannyGeee says:

    2:11 to Ray Lewis on the ground crying. Count down begins….

    The guy is a twat.

  38. Get Phelps Up says:

    Fuck the Patriots.

  39. Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

    The Har-Bowl?

    and ugh…if I see one more shot of Ray Lewis crying I’m going to vomit. I have to turn this off.

    • Pat D says:

      I know what I’ll be doing Super Bowl Sunday. It won’t involve watching football.

      Actually, if only I knew lots of people, I should have a party at my house. The house will be empty for a few days beginning that day. Maybe just hire a hooker.

      Anyone got ideas?

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      The Jim Harbaugh genius shit kills me.
      I give him credit for Kapernick but that team sucked forever and was ready to win big regardless who their coach was after cashing in on a slew of high draft picks.

      • Pat D says:

        But teh Andrew Luck!!

        I fucking hate Harbaugh. Michigan guy, strike one. “Bringing the 49ers back,” strike two. Total whining douchebag cocksucker, strike three.

        • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

          That pretty much sums it up though my lifelong hatred of the 49ers since the mother fucking “catch” scarred me for life is another strike in my book against Harbaugh.

      • Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

        Meh, I’m rooting for the 49′ers anyway, because I was like 11 during the Giants vs Ravens superbowl…and the Raven broke my childhood heart, plus the Ray Lewis getting away with murder thing…I can’t root for them. I’m too young to hate the 9ers like most Giant fans, plus Kapernick is very fun to watch and easy to root for.

        • Pat D says:

          I’m old enough to hate both equally.

          My desired outcome for Super Bowl XLVII will be what my friends calls a “Pat Special”: I hope the stadium explodes.

          • Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

            Haha, I call that rooting for Skynet. You root for Skynet to become sentient and take out the Super Dome first.

            • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:


              That’s how I feel when the Red Sox play the Mets and any combination of the Eagles, Redskins, Giants, 49ers and Steelers play each other

              • Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

                It’s what jjyank and I joked about happening whenever the Sox played the Orioles this past season. Also, I agree with that entire list minus the Giants…replace them w/ (I’m guessing YOUR) Cowboys.

            • Pat D says:

              If Skynet allows me to live and throws a few courtesies my way, I’m sure this will be my reaction:


            • Pat D says:

              Actually, I just realized that should be called “The Sum of All Fears.”

              Since in that movie that’s what happened.

          • Cool Lester Smooth (Formerly YanksFanInBeantown) says:

            Hah, sounds like my reaction last year.

            Here’s hoping Chip can pull a Jim Harbaugh.

    • Super Harbaugh Bowl storylines will hopefully prevail.

      And I certainly didn’t have enough vested in NYG back in 2001 to care about the Ravens winning that game. Truth be told, my minor allegiances to the Giants didn’t come forth until my Yankee fandom grew stronger, and I started to think more like most Yankee fans. You know, the ones who live in New York, or in the tri-state area.

      I’ll probably end up on the side of the Niners, with the weak excuse of NFC allegiance. But if the Ravens win, it’s really no skin off my nose.

  40. DERP says:

    Well this sucks

  41. Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

    MLB Countdown 25 Clutch Postseason Players, over under 5 for David Ortiz?

    • Pat D says:

      Hard to say. Probably right around there.

      • Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

        And I think Jeter will be around the same spot too.

      • Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

        Huh, he’s at 15…maybe MLBn has gotten of the Sox Dick a bit of late.

        • Pat D says:

          Actually, I just found the full list. I’d encourage you to stop watching.

          • Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

            Really? as long as Reggie, Jeets, and Mo are in the top 10…and they figure to be, I’ll be okay w/ the list. Unless like Pedro or Schilling is number 1…in which case I will rage vomit

            • Pat D says:

              Pedro’s not on the list. Schilling is ahead of Jeter and Reggie. The top 2 spots are fine.

              But, David Freese? Kirk Gibson is also overrated on that list. There was very little clutch about his home run in the 1984 World Series. The one where he celebrates like he just won the Derby or something.

              • Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

                Wow..Schill ahead of Reggie? And Gibson ahead of Jeets? I mean the first one is a discussion worth having…both are all time post-season greats. The second one is a crime.

                • Dalek Jeter (formerly: Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)) says:

                  Kirk, obviously, Not Bob Gibson. Bob Gibson was great.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      Reggie Jackson has to be 1 or 2.

    • Bob Buttons says:

      Kirby Puckett is overrated (for that series)
      He himself admitted that he sucked until game 6.

  42. DERP says:

    Dan Wetzel ?@DanWetzel
    Terrell Suggs: “These are the most arrogant pricks in the world starting with Belichick on down.”

    What a clown

  43. Improbable Island's Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR) says:

    I don’t give a shit either way about the ’9ers. I don’t like the Ravens. Go ’9ers.

  44. Jedile says:

    Think Matt Harrison’s contract is a good guideline for Phil Hughes? same age, but Harrison is better.

    so maybe 4/40 for hughes??

    • RetroRob says:

      I thought the Harrison contract was interesting for that reason. Similar age, but Harrison is a lefty and he’s better.

  45. Hall and Nokes says:

    There are teams other than the Yankees?

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