Hal: There’s been “a conversation or two” about extending Cano

Snowmageddon Open Thread
Manny Banuelos has started playing catch following elbow surgery

Via Wally Matthews: Hal Steinbrenner confirmed the team has had some discussions with Scott Boras about a contract extension for Robinson Cano. “There’s been a conversation or two,” said the team’s principal owner yesterday. “We’ll get into that and we’ll talk about that at a later date. But he’s been a great Yankee and [we] hope he’s here his entire career.”

Cano, 30, will become a free agent for the first time next winter. Team policy has been to wait until a contract expires before negotiating a new one — Hal recently said he is not a fan of extensions — but the Yankees broke their own rule once to sign Cano and could easily do so again. Either way, he’s in line for a massive nine-figure contract. If they intend to keep him long-term, the Yankees would be wise to hammer out a new deal now rather than wait until next winter, when the Dodgers could get involved.

Snowmageddon Open Thread
Manny Banuelos has started playing catch following elbow surgery
  • https://twitter.com/czm26 Craig

    Aside from Cano, was Russell Martin the only player they (attempted to) break the “no extension rule” for?

    • Steve

      They tried with Jeter before he signed his big contract I’m pretty sure. And with ARod before he opted out.

      • Sam

        “The Yankees have declined to pursue contract extensions in the past with Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera, among others”

        From Bryan Hoch over at the Yankees site. Not for Jeter or Mo.

        • Steve


          Last year, Levine and Close agreed to a $118.5 million, seven-year contract for Jeter, but Steinbrenner wouldn’t close the deal because he didn’t want to set any salary records, preferring to wait for a $143 million, eight-year contract between Juan Gonzalez and Detroit to be finalized.

          He signed an arb contract for 10 million and ended up signing his 10 year contract the year after. Doesn’t that technically count as a contract extension that was pursued?

      • RetroRob

        I don’t think the Jeter contract is a good comparison, although my memory might be off here. Signing a player to a longterm contract while he’s still in his arbitration years is not the same as what they’re trying to do here with Cano, who has a year left on a contract that’s been in force for a number of years now.

    • http://www.twitter.com/mattpat11 Matt DiBari

      I suppose it depends on what you consider the 2011 Sabathia deal.

  • Logan

    They broke it way back during Javy Vazquez 1.0

    • Robinson Tilapia

      It’s ok. Really. “Rule” is something we’re probably running with a bit too much anyway.

      Every player should be, and I’m sure is, a case-by-case situation.

      Lock him up. I don’t buy into many “this is what the Yankees do” type of blanket statements. If I were to hitch my wagon to a couple, though, one would be “make sure their homegrown stars remain Yankees.”

      Sure, there’s the “at what cost” question. I still think that, for Robbie Cano, you are willing to go above and beyond.

      • jjyank

        My thoughts exactly on the last sentence there. I’ve been pretty vocal that I want to see Cano remain a Yankee. There’s always a breaking point, but mine is much higher than most.

  • Sam

    Doing an extension rather than waiting for FA means the Yankees are kind of bidding against themselves. They’re making assumptions on what they think he’ll get on the market. Where are they drawing the line? Is there a line?

    And I can’t see giving a 38-40 yr old $20-25 million. They need to stop overpaying for players past their prime. And 1 player, no matter how talented, is worth skimping on the rest of what the team needs.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      “And I can’t see giving a 38-40 yr old $20-25 million. They need to stop overpaying for players past their prime. And 1 player, no matter how talented, is worth skimping on the rest of what the team needs.”

      Tell that to every team who has the money, not just the Yankees.

      This is the price for getting all the prime years.

      • Sam

        They can’t be responsible for what other teams do. They could put their foot down now and say ‘No mas’. Principles.

        • hogsmog

          And with that policy, basically never sign any top free agent ever again?

          Look, it totally sucks to have albatross contracts, especially with Arod’s hanging over us. But this is the nature of baseball right now, and probably for a while longer- the young all-star plays for his rookie team until 28-29 due to arbitration/strategic extension. He comes out looking for absurd paydirt until age 40, and gets it.

          • jjyank

            Yeah, pretty much this. If the Yankees ignore what other teams do (and other teams are also signing players to huge contracts), then the Yankees better hope that their prospects pan out, or they won’t have any all-stars on the team anymore. It’s the nature of the market, and it’s foolish to pretend that the Yankees can ignore it.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            It’s the “I wonder how fans of franchises that suck feel” fantasy.

            You’ll never live like common people. You’ll never do what common people do.

            • hogan

              You’ll never watch your life slide out of view. And dance and drink and screw.

              • Robinson Tilapia

                Because there’s nothing else to do.

                The great Jarvis Cocker, everyone.

        • jjyank

          Yeah, but that principle may make the Yankees a crappy team. What other teams do does matter. Cano will be 31 as a FA. I don’t think he’s going to get a 9 year deal anyway.

        • RetroRob

          It has nothing to do with principles. It’s a product of the CBA. Players in arbitration years are great deals, players who can be free agents cost money. Teams know this.

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        • jjyank

          Easy, Dan Gen. You’re gonna pull something.

          • 189,189,189,

            unmasked ,but unbowed…

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Which, no matter how big font, you’ll never sit in, Dan.

          • 189,189,189,

            give it up and find something else to do,when r u going to realize going to a game of baseball is like going to the movies,we just want to have fun and who cares what the actors, players are paid…

    • Sam

      *isn’t worth

  • Rizi Walnuts

    What do you do with a guy with Cano’s skills going into a FA agent year? Let him wait. He gets hungry and hits the crap out of the ball. No bad thing it seems to me. The Yanks have got the pockets to keep him if they want him. Let him wait. Doesn’t Robbie strike you as the kind of guy that plays better hungry than with a belly full of Yankee cash? All of that is just my opinion, but the only thing I really know is I ain’t shoveling snow today. Forget that.

    • jjyank

      “Doesn’t Robbie strike you as the kind of guy that plays better hungry than with a belly full of Yankee cash?”

      No. And I don’t see any reason to think that he would be, other than the “lazy Dominican” narrative.

    • Nick

      Not really. He’s hit almost every year he’s been here, contract or not. The only thing you accomplish but waiting it out is giving the dodgers a chance to throw 200+ mil at him. Players like Cano set their own markets. Use the 1 year he currently has as currency in a negotiation. Tear it up and give him 20+ guaranteed this year and you assume all the risk of him getting injured. You’ll pay less this offseason than you will next…

  • nsalem

    I think if Robinson renegotiates now he will (rightfully so)l be looking for 8 years and I’m not sure the Yankees are willing to go more than 6 or 7 at most. I don’t know how this will play out. In all likelihood by 2017 he won’t have the 20+ million value that we will be paying him. This leaves the possibility of having 50,000,00 on the books in 2017 (with A-Rod) and have little production to show for it. I guess the FO will have to decide to deal with the pain of losing him now and effecting our chances in 14 and 15 or the potential pain of having about 25% of available payroll tied up in regressing ex superstars in 16 and 17. This could be a worse situation payroll wise that we are in now. Very tough decision. Maybe the answer lies in what the Yankees think they could get by replacing Cano with the money that would be freed up if he walks.

    • Sam

      There’s not as many infield prospects in the system either. They could use that cash to do some much needed infield shopping.

      • dalelama

        Agreed, outrageously fat contracts are the price you pay for a crappy farm system.

  • Peter Lacock

    This will be one of those scenes,
    if the Yanks truly negotiate in good faith and make some fair offers,
    but Boras refuses in an attempt to squeeze every last penny out of this contract,
    the chances of Cano leaving increase exponentially.
    The Yanks will still do everything they can to keep Cano but they won’t be kissing any asses.

    Chances are good that things won’t get down and dirty until Winter anyway.

  • CS Yankee

    It might help future years cap if they extend him now versus winter, 2013. He’ll likely get his 22-25M$ per year anyways, and by raising the average per in 2013, that might save a few (on the Avg.) down the line.

    I’m in the camp of give him his money but not 8-10 years. 6-150 and it starts this April…Boras says no?…well, I wouldn’t say anything negative, but would let him go after 2013 without making an offer ala Swisher & Martin.

    If he wanted to stay a NYY, he would take it…if he wanted to get the attention and the most money (like a good businessman), he would wait and the NYY should quietly move on.

    • Sam

      “He’ll likely get his 22-25M$ per year anyways”

      No matter how likely, that’s still an assumption though. And just because someone else would does that mean the Yankees have to overpay or even pay that much for a player past their prime? Especially when they’re trying to stick to a budget and it could/would hurt the rest of the team?

  • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

    Steins: Hey Scottso would Robbie take 5/$100?
    Boras: Suck me hard
    Steins: Okay later bro

    • Robinson Tilapia


  • mt

    I guess extension talks are better than no talks in terms of getting information flowing between both sides but I am fairly pessimistic. I know people point to Jered weaver signing before free agency as a Boras client at somewhat of a hometown discount but I got the sense that Weaver really directed Boras to get a deal done with Angels as opposed to going to full free agency a year later when he would be free to deal with everyone. I have heard (FWIW, through a Michael Kay Yankee source, that Cano wants top dollar and will not offer hometown discounts)

    I assume here Boras will listen to what Yanks have to say but if they right now offer him 5 yrs at $110 or 6 years at $126 ( theabsolute maximum that I would go) I cannot see Cano directing Boras to take that offer now. He knows that there will be at least one bidder, whether Dodgers or Cubs or someone else who will do better than that. That’s all he needs. So basically I think Cano knows that he should get a better offer if he waits.

    I just does not see the 8 years/$200-$225 million contract offer coming from Yanks during these extension talks so I see Cano passing.

    My main fear with this is that if he does go to free agency at end of 2013 year (especially after these extension talks) I do not then seeing him turning around and signing quickly with Yankees – he will want to see what’s out there – so whole offseason could be held hostage to Cano negotiations when we have so many free agents to either bring back or replace ( 3 starting pitchers (#2,#3,#4), all the bullpen except Robertson, Granderson (who I think Yanks should let go but maybe my thoughts change if Grandy’s contract demand is reasonable in terms of years/money and we do not sign Cano but catch 22 is that Cano taking a long time may make Grandy move on elsewhere), Youklis). Some of these replacements will come from minors but I cannot see all of them stepping in from minors or trades of these AA/AAA playerst and still having a “championship caliber team”.

  • trr

    we need Cano, but to drastically overpay would keep us in the same boat. I don’t want the Yanks to be like the Knicks/Rangers of a few years ago: wealthy NY teams that overpay aging stars in order to put asses in the seats and never win the big one…

  • Short Porch

    Careful, careful here. The last Boras client that they negotiated an extension with was A-Rod, and we all know how that turned out. A hidden PEDs issue that has seriously damaged this franchise financially and reputationally.

    I would have some serious PEDs clause in Cano’s extension, for starters. If you think Boras did not know A-Rod was juicing, and made sure that the contract did not have such language, you need to become as cynical as, say, a sports agent would be. Watch Arli$$ on Netflix, and Ari on Entourage. In LA, these series are considered documentaries.

    Melky and ARod were workout buddies. Cano and Melky were of course buddies. Cano gained 40 pounds from his rookie year, 2005, going from 170 – 210 lbs. With about everyone under the sun being busted these days, and with HGH testing being implemented this year, anyone paying any attention should be sitting on their wallet waiting for this to all shake out. I believe this issue has a long way to go.

    Robby may not be clean. That’s just today’s reality. I really hope he is, but this is a $100,000,000+ decision. If you must sign him, plan for that possibility legally. At this point as a lawyer or owner in negotiations, you should assume everyone is cheating, and I don’t care what sport, and negotiate accordingly.

    • hogan

      Interesting. Will teams push for more ironclad PED clauses in contracts moving forward?

      • Robinson Tilapia

        I wonder what the legality of that is. I have no clue, honestly. I am certainly not a student of the terms of the CBA.

        Alex Rodriguez may have an obscenely large contract. He may have negotiated it while Scott Boras was/wasn’t his agent. He may even enjoy a good plate of mofongo. He’s still an entirely separate human being from Robinson Cano and their situations should reflect that.

    • Ted Nelson

      “A hidden PEDs issue that has seriously damaged this franchise financially and reputationally.”

      Has it?

      “Watch Arli$$ on Netflix, and Ari on Entourage.”


      • Short Porch

        “Has it?”

        Dude, you don’t think that the AROD contract — his hiding his use of PEDS — hasn’t hurt us?

        Can you believe for one second that Boras didn’t have some inkling?


        And yes, agents are pretty much scum. I noted that Arli$$ and Ari on Entourage were considered documentaries in LA. I think irony may be a trope too trop for you.

        I believe in free speech and all but with this level of what I hope is deliberate obtuseness I am starting to think you should have to have a license to own a keyboard.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          “Dude, you don’t think that the AROD contract — his hiding his use of PEDS — hasn’t hurt us?”

          Show me one link, one quote, anything that would back that up.

          A-Rod will hurt the franchise. Andy Pettitte will hurt the franchise. Howie Spira will hurt the franchise. Firing Billy Martin will hurt the franchise. Selling to Steinbrenner will hurt the franchise. The franchise is still just fine.

        • Ted Nelson

          LOL. Those shows are fiction. Painting all agents with a broad brush like that is beyond ignorant. It’s downright stupid.

  • Dave

    Your crazy if you think Boras will let him sign an extension. This is just a ploy by the Yanks so when they lose him they can tell the fans we tried to sigh him. Boras will wait and the bidding war will begin. You don’t think Boras is that stupid, do you?

  • bill

    It’s a smoke screen i will be suprised if Hal is actually going to spend the money necessary to sign cano,

    Lets just hope he offers arbitration to cano and hopefully granderson so we could get draft picks for them.

    Even in 2013 Hal let there be holes for catcher and right hand hitting outfielders.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      God forbid there’s not a HOFer and/or Ronnie Mustelier at every position.

  • Pistol Pete

    I posted on the previous thread that Cano over his first 8 years has a better batting avg obp slg and ops numbers than both Morgan and Sandberg Hall of Fame second basemen. If Robbie stays healthy he’ ll make the Hall of Fame with the numbers he’s been putting up. What a shame it’d be if the Yankees couldn’t keep home grown Hall of Fame type players because of money. What are we the.Expos, or the Royals or Rays, no we’re the Yankees for God’s sake. Let’s keep our best players. The fans deserve it. Just pay him now and get it over with. I ‘m sure there’s a number that Robbiie would work with, he doesn’t want to go anywhere.

  • Bavarian Yankee

    omg, I can already see what’s going to happen. Cashman will say that Cano is too expensive, then Levine and the Steinbrenners step in and give Cano something like 8/200 and Cashman says it’s not his signing.

    Being a Yankees GM has to be kinda cruel. You always have to dig your way through the mess that your bosses created. Who will (casual) fans blame when that very player doesn’t perform well? The GM of course.

    • RetroRob

      True, although as I noted in yesterday’s open thread, they’re not compartmentalized on these issues. There is planning for $25M AAV Cano and there is planning for no Cano.

      I still think that they’re trying to open up negotiations now so they have a clearer idea of what they’re dealing with next off season, and if Cano reaches free agency, there is a good chance th team will let him walk and focus their resources elsewhere, unless they can come to an agreement quickly. The Yankees can’t let the Boras show of dragging negotiations on into January happen next year. It won’t. They’ll try to sign him now, or I believe that’s it for Cano in NY.

      • Ted Nelson

        I personally really doubt they’ll let him walk.

        • RetroRob

          I underderstand. They want him to stay. I want him to stay, yet there is a price for everything, and I’m not convinced they’ll meet it, or wait around until Boras decides it’s time to sign.

          • Ted Nelson

            I understand too, and still I disagree with your take. If the Dodgers make some sort of totally silly offer, then I could see him walking. If it’s anything in line with prevailing market prices, though, I think that every piece of evidence we have suggests that the Yankees will not lose their franchise player in his prime. And that’s what Cano is.

            You can say that you think he’s gone as many times as you’d like, and I’m still going to disagree.

    • Grit for Brains

      “You always have to dig your way through the mess that your bosses created.”

      Most jobs?

      • TomH

        “You always have to dig your way through the mess that your bosses created.”

        Most jobs?

        The universal view of … employees.

        You know the old saying, “No man is a hero to his valet.” Someone once responded to it: “True, but this is not because there are no heroes but because valets will be valets.”

        Having said that, I would prefer George to these Steinbrenner subunits.

  • Pistol Pete

    Correction on previous post, Morgan had a better obp than Cano. I also compared Cano to Alomar another Hall of Fame second baseman. Alomar only beats Cano in obp. Cano has a slightly better batting average and far better slugging and ops numbers. He’ll hit twice as many home runs if he stays healthy. Cano may very well end up the greatest hitting second baseman of all time. He’s also a great fielder. He’s clearly the Yankees best player and they should make it a priority to sign him.

    • TomH

      Cano may very well end up the greatest hitting second baseman of all time.

      The shade of Rogers Hornsby replies: “Not a chance, although the kid is a better fielder than I was.”

  • Grit for Brains

    I just wonder if the Yanks are in third place if they have to pull what the Phils did with Hamels last year. Try to negotiate an extension with the understanding that if it can’t get done he’s getting traded. Of course you don’t want to trade Robbie…It’s still better than getting nothing

    • RetroRob

      He’ll be a two to two-and-a-half-month rental at that point. History says they may not get much, and they may rather take the pick and the important draft dollars that goes with it. I doubt he’ll be traded.

      • Ted Nelson

        I don’t think he’s getting traded, but what history are you referring to? We have only one season under this CBA. The only player close to Cano’s stature who was moved last trade deadline was Greinke, and the Brewers got BA’s #55 prospect who was an MLB ready SS and a couple of decent AA SPs for him. Dempster landed a couple of good prospects as well. I don’t think it’s at all clear that a pick would be preferable if you’ve actually throw in the towel on the race and Cano.

        • LitFig

          Didn’t the Mets get Zack Wheeler for half a season of Carlos Beltran?

          • Ted Nelson

            2011, under the old CBA

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  • LitFig

    I’d jump for joy if Cano signed a Matt Kemp-type extension, but seeing as how Boras is the agent Cano signed a little while back, I see that possibility as slim to none.

  • LeftyLarry

    I’d trade any player that Boras represents and get something for them while I can.
    He’s a team destroyer.
    Cano can be replaced by a nice platoon of Corbin Joseph and David Adams.

    Will they be as good as Cano?
    No but that won’t be the reason Yankees win or lose a Championship.

    I’d Rather spread Cano’s money around, he’s not a leader and goes into too many funks when he’s most needed even if he gets his numbers in the end.

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