Heyman: There’s a “significant difference” in valuation during Cano talks
ByVia Jon Heyman: There is a “significant difference” in valuation during talks about a new contract between Robinson Cano and the Yankees. The club views their second baseman as a top 10-15 player while Scott Boras is thinking higher than that. “There are few elite players,” said the agent. “That just is a very short list – less than five … Robinson is happy being a Yankee, and both sides recognize that this is one of the elite players in the game.”
Hal Steinbrenner recently confirmed the two sides had a “conversation or two” about a new deal, and Heyman says they have indeed started talks about an extension. A new agreement is not remotely close and there’s at least a chance Cano will become a free agent after the season. So yeah, this report isn’t terribly surprising. Boras always shoots for the moon with his top clients. I’ve written quite a bit about a new contract for Robbie lately, so make sure you check out this post from earlier in the week as well as today’s poll.
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There is a “significant difference” between me taking Jon Heyman seriously and……things I actually take seriously.
Shit, my imagination is broken.
Yikes.
Nice knowing ya Robbie.
Exactly he’s gonna do a Pujols on us and leave for slightly more money/years. I’m thinking 5-7 year contract but it seems like he wants 10 years $300m. I say Josh Hamilton type deal 5y $125m or 7 year $160m
REPLACE ROBBIE WITH A RAT!
4/115
Shoot me now.
5/125 or cya later
Dear God, no. They have three overpriced, past prime contracts already. Haven’t they learned anything?
Worse, even if we accept the best possible comp for Cano – Rod Carew (and Cano has never peaked as high) – where will he play? Carew became a full-time 1B at 29 and then averaged 3-4 wins by the time he was past 30.
No thanks. You pay for longevity at SS and CF and C. You don’t overpay a 2B (or a 1B) to put up 3-4 WAR, at best. That’s pure stupidity. If Utley and Kinsler aren’t worth the cash, then neither is Cano.
$100M committed to four players in 2014 would be idiotic. That’s exactly the reason they don’t have a major league catcher or Rf this year.
Yes the way they’ve done business for the last 20 years is so “flawed”. Fools should’ve learned their lesson from all of this winning.
And then you get “lessons” like 2002-2008 and 2010-present.
Of course, they only make $500M/year but are insist on a salary cap. With the latter, overpaying for past-prime performance is not going to get them far.
Oh no. Please, not anything like 2002-8, where they missed the playoffs once, or last season, where they made the ALCS.
BUT TEYRE DA YANKEES N DEY SHULD WIN EVERY……fuck off.
Wow, how big of you and your keyboard! You are so tough!
Bottomline: They were deeply flawed in the years after 2001. Only an utter homer would pretend otherwise because MLB created additional playoff spots. The same idiots as you argued they were a great team in the 80s because they had the most wins in the decade.
MLB created additional playoff spots after 2001? I guess I missed that.
No moron, the fact they made the playoffs is a bullshit data point. The 1986 team would have made the playoffs. They still weren’t very good.
Yea, 90 wins blows.
And they won’t even get that this year.
Hey, I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you on that. But I’m willing to, you know, LET THE FUCKING SEASON BEGIN before I make up my mind.
Your team won the World Series in 1986.
The Mets are too honorable a franchise for this guy.
This is the type of dipshit who claims he doesn’t have a favorite team because he doesn’t owe any team anything.
The owners of the team have made it clear that “TEYRE DA YANKEES N DEY SHULD WIN EVERY” year. So the team claims that is the goal, but the great Robinson Tilapia says it isn’t and he did with the freshest misspelling joke ever. /memed
To say that winning the WS is your goal and to find no value in accomplishing anything less than that are two different things.
“We are the Yankees,” Levine told ESPNNewYork.com Friday as he and the franchise coped with being eliminated at home in Game 5 of the ALDS by the Detroit Tigers. “That is the way The Boss set it up. When you don’t win the World Series, it is a bitter disappointment and not a successful year.”
Levine isn’t the owner of the Yankees.
“That is the way The Boss set it up.”
Unless he’s talking about Springsteen, that’s a mandate from the owner of the Yankees. Or in this case the immediate past owner
Does that mean that’s the way you have to or should perceive it? I’d rather enjoy success. It doesn’t mean I’m not heart broken when each season ends just because I don’t reflect on every one that ended without a WS as a failure.
Hal said after that season “I personally share in our fans’ disappointment that this season has ended without a championship, that is, and always will be, our singular goal every season.” It was disappointing, but not a failure.
Saying the season was a failure and referencing George’s mindset in the 80′s was just Levine talking out of his ass (which he has a propensity to do) after what was a crushing defeat.
It doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy success, but it should mean that you shouldn’t be an asshole to the people that share the team’s stated philosophy, as Tilapia has a real knack for doing.
Fans that think that a year without a world series, despite being the marching orders from the owners are apparently apes that can’t spell. But it’s cool for all of the owners and players to think that way.
agreed steve. nothing less funny than the caps lock misspelling meme still being used in 2013.
and when the owners and presidents and front office execs constantly shove the “WS or bust” mantra down our throats every year, theres nothing wrong with the fans having those expectations. after all, weve been told to.
An overdue put-down of the Exalted R-Tils (and by association his merry wannabe band of SWPL Ironic Jokesters) made MY day, tell you what…
Yikes, now I angered The Lord of RAB Posters, so off to the stocks I go…
Congratulations, you’ve won the awards for “Best Ability To Completely Take For Granted How Hard It Actually Is To Get To A World Series” and “Best Performance In Not Realizing The Late 90′s Run Is Something That Happens Once In A Generation, If Ever Again.”
Sure, winning a weak division or wild card was everything. You homers are too much.
You truly have no idea what you’re saying.
And you are truly saying nothing, Troll.
This is by far the funniest thing you’ve said tonight.
Now go accuse Tilapia of being gay again. It crushes his wittle feewings so much.
I still say the “18 years of value” post is the funniest.
It’s like an infomercial or something.
Who accused someone of being gay? Not me cause there ain’t nothing wrong with that. At least the gays are getting flesh tonight. You idiots are too busy banging your keyboards with homerlove.
Oh, I see, you were being punny.
Guess what. It wasn’t funny.
I sense a ban-hammer coming soon.
And guess what? You should learn to read, moron.
Yet you reply to everything on this thread.
“Homerlove” isn’t catching on. I hate to break it to you.
Oh, you’re gonna be so fucking done.
But look who chose to post on a Yankee fan blog tonight. What were you expecting to find, Met fans? Weak ass game.
And you got nothing except your keyboard and your homerlove for Cano.
In fact, it’s clear that you are a homersexual.
BOOOOM!
RT, you just got destroyed. A terrible pun and bigotry in the same sentence!
Did you mean in the toughest division in baseball?
But we should just rebuild with prospects. Because every time they do they’ll develop a first ballot HOF SS the greatest closer of all time and borderline HOF SP, C and CF, because that’s what happens when you build through the farm. One percent of the time, it works every time.
Who said that? But signing OPP is folly. Teixeira and A-Rod show that.
I really, reeeeeallly hope you aren’t saying that 2002-2008 and 2010-present were poor outcomes. Because that’d be incredibly silly.
Flawed teams got flawed results even after over $1 Billion spent. Dumb is as dumb did – like Bernie starting over Lofton.
Right, the 2000 team was without flaws.
At least they were the simple continuation of what worked in 1996-1999. By 2002, they didn’t have the pitching to compete. 2009 they finally had CC.
Now they won’t hit a lick.
I have a feeling that that would not be your argument had they lost the 2000 World Series.
Nope, cause I could have made that argument about 2001 and didn’t. They got old then didn’t replace the right people.
Of course, Cano is only prospect they developed since then. That’s why you homers have such hard-ons for him.
But I’ve been arguing to let hi…
Yeah. Nevermind.
They really didn’t have good pitching in 2000 either. They won a weak division and somehow snapped back into it when the playoffs started. That took a lot of good fortune.
Now you’re just making shit up. Their pitching was the same players they relied on in 1998-1999.
Just because it was the same people doesn’t mean it was the same pitching.
Runs Allowed:
1998 – 656
1999 – 731
2000 – 814
Team ERA:
1998 – 3.82
1999 – 4.13
2000 – 4.76
Team WHIP:
1998 – 1.251
1999 – 1.377
2000 – 1.429
Average Pitchers Age:
1998 – 30.2
1999 – 31.2
2000 – 32.0
Maybe aging had a lot to do with that. Maybe it was a random fluke. Maybe it was decreased quality.
Their ERA+ in 2000 was barley above league average. The same players doesn’t mean the same results.
I…
Alright.
Hmmm… I thought the lesson of 2002-2008 was the playoffs are a crapshoot. Because they averaged 97 wins during that span, the worst of which was 89 and they made the playoffs six out of seven years. Anybody who whines about the 2000′s is a spoiled brat who deserves to be a Pirates fan.
This is why they hate us!
Nope, that’s the lazy lesson. Those team beat the crap out of shitty pitching. The playoffs do not feature shitty pitching.
You and Joe Morgan can keep spitting out useless platitudes, despite all evidence to the contrary.
lol. if you ever want to hear my real life joe morgan story i’ll tell you.
The Yankees OPSes in the playoff series they lost from 2002-2008:
2002: .834
2003: .743
2004: .840
2005: .742
2006: .692
2007: .704
So except for 2 years they did a pretty good job hitting the not shitty pitching in the playoffs.
Exactly. Because all the other teams refused to play against the bad pitchers and forfeited those gam…
Wait, what?
Playoffs are not a crapshoot–if so, then the Yanks lucked out in 96, 98, 99, 00–bad argument
ok, kevin. not a crapshoot. what then? destiny?
Of course they did. The 2000 team wasn’t even very good they were 10th in runs scored and 12th in runs allowed, they were 26th in UZR defense and weren’t very good at baserunning. But they got to the playoffs (with only 87 wins) and anything can happen in a series between two teams that were good enough to get to the post-season.
One World Series win in 12 years I find very disappointing.
Aren’t you a Met fan?
boo,
trade him to st louis, please please please
There’s a good chance that the value he gives the Yankees in 2013 is greater than the value he’ll fetch in a trade.
At $15M, I’m not so sure. By June, the Yankees could be struggling to score even 4.5 runs a game with Cano in the lineup. At that point, if a contender comes calling with 1 Grade A prospect and 2 Grade Bs, that’s 18 years of value. Even if Cano is playing out of his mind and looking at a 8 WAR year, you don’t think a solid trade could net them a total of 5 WAR over the next 6 years? And that’s not counting the dollars saved.
Sure, lets just assume the Yankees will struggle to score runs to fit our point.
Sure, let’s assume removing Swisher and Martin and A-Rod from the lineup and replacing them with clear downgrades is an improvement!
Your assertion, …struggling to score even 4.5 runs a game…, is not guaranteed to happen because they’re without those guys. Possible, yes; definite, hardly.
BRILLIANT.
Is drunkenly browsing RAB really the way you want to spend your evening?
Eight shots of bourbon. Two bacon-wrapped hotdogs. One plate of artisan bacon. One pork taco.
Sober.
Only eight? You gotta step that up at an Expo.
No kidding, you really are a fat ass at his keyboard!
The pours weren’t big, but there wasn’t enough food to make up for what you were ingesting. I also really wanted to focus on bourbons I wouldn’t drink otherwise.
What Jim Beam was doing there, I have no idea.
It was fun. If I had to pay for it, I’m not quite sure I’d have done it, but it was lovely as a V-Day present and I am very grateful for it.
For those who are actually paying attention, I attended the 2013 Bourbon and Bacon Expo tonight.
hey, white boy. i attend a bacon and bourbon expo every day of life.
go yankees!
No one’s saying it’s an improvement. We’re saying that there is, as yet, no evidence that the offense is bad. It could be awful. It could be top 10.
And that, of course, does not take into account that scoring 4.5 runs per game is hardly “struggling to score runs,” considering that that statistic would have had them 10th in RPG the last two seasons. Sure, it would have been awful in 2007, but you may have noticed a bit of a decline in offense around the league since then.
3/5 AL playoff teams last year scored fewer than 4.5 r/g. Even if the Yankees did only manage that pace, they won’t be out of contention by the trade deadline unless the pitching completely imploded anyways.
All those pitching prospects, heh. Save the Big Three!!!
WTF are you talking about?
Who said anything about pitching prospects?
This is what happens when we fall for the trap. Now he’s troll-drunk.
Time for O:S.
“At that point, if a contender comes calling with 1 Grade A prospect and 2 Grade Bs, that’s 18 years of value.”
I laughed.
So did I.
….dear God.
Go away, please please please
I think One year of Cano, and a top draft pick is better then most things we could get in a trade. Having him leave this year would make it very difficult for the Yankees to make it to the postseason.
I actually think there’s a chance this doesn’t get to free agency from reading this. You have to think that the fact that there’s actual talks means there’s a willingness on both sides to explore an extension. My hope is that this gets done quickly, although hope and reality? Two drastically different things.
I understand the whole budget thing, and how second basemen decline rapidly. But I would still love to have him back. I would love to go into next offseason knowing Cano is wrapped up.
I almost certainly wouldn’t do 7 years after this season. I would at least consider 7 years if it started with this season.
Unfortunately (I think), that is very much unlike to happen.
After the A-Rod deal, I’m sure the Yankees front office wants nothing to do with paying a 40 middle infielder $25m.
Disagree. Completely.
So you like having a massive contract that hamstrings the payroll?
Hal hamstrings the payroll more than any contract on the books does. The Yankees can afford 2-3 bad contracts and still field a great team. The biggest thing hurting more now is not currently having any real cheap/real high value players.
Brilliant! They can “afford” 2-3 bad contracts! Like they can “afford” 2-3 three wet noodle bats?
Completely different. The combination of ownership holding the line on payroll growth over the past several years and being a mostly veteran, full market price, team lead to the constraints. There is absolutely no reason, with their resources, that the Yankees can’t completely eat 2-3 bad contracts (and they haven’t had to completely eat any yet) and still be one of the highest spending teams excluding those contracts.
Obviously having bad contracts isn’t ideal, but the Yankee resource advantage gives them the opportunity to be able to live through the “victory lap” years of a contract and still compete. It’s the price of signing star level players in free agency.
.222 BA across 217 post season at bats. Did not hit over .100 in the last two post seasons. He is a very good player, but I am wondering if we can afford multiple bad contracts that can’t hit when it counts.
I don’t think “hamstring” is the word you’re looking for there.
I know it’s suddenly fashionable to hate on big money contracts (on here with about 30% of the commenting base, but I digress) because we can’t see the forest from the Alex, but big money contract were, are, and will continue to be part of doing business in Major League Baseball.
Yes, doing business means giving dumb contracts to OPP. Brilliant analysis! Hell, after Jeter puts up a .800 OPS (but negative WAR), we should re-sign him for 4/$100M. Let’s have a $100M infield just for shits and giggles and business!
Brilliant!
If you keep this up, I’m going to request a written permission slip from your mother before addressing me directly.
You’re not tall enough to board this ride, son.
Keep banging your keyboard, cause that’s all you got. Don’t your keys stick too much at this point?
….
0_o
#brilliant
You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you really think it means.
thanks for the laugh.
this is gonna be a rough ride….
As if it wasn’t one already…
even at 25 million a year he still would not not run ground balls out.
So you’re saying he’ll start to run them out?
The problem with Cano is that he makes everything look easy.
He would make tight roping across Niagara falls while juggling five chainsaws look easy.
“The problem with Cano is that he makes everything look easy.”
I’m not familiar with that part of the Dominican Republic. On what side of the island is that on?
The part that isn’t 95% deforested.
Seriously, I’ve been learning about the hell that is Haiti in my anthropology class because it’s been my professor’s project for years. He showed an aerial shot of the border. To the right is the Dominican Republic, filled with trees. To the left is Haiti, completely stripped bare.
It’s very eerie.
The Caribbean is…….complicated.
Colonialism FTW.
We had our honeymoon in St. Lucia at a beautiful resort….which was a former plantation. None of the resorts were owned by locals, but only employed locals. Tourism’s a huge industry, but it doesn’t really reach the people in these countries. The worst part was that we were the only couple there who honestly noticed and connected to this.
I have a very conflicted relationship with the xenophobia and racism that’s so inherent in Caribbean culture.
Yea, I’ve found it troubling. It’s like when I hear people say the president has “anti-Colonial” beliefs and I just kind of laugh. I guess those people fail to realize that colonialism was only good for white people.
Colonialism has absolutely nothing to do with Haiti’s current deforestration.
Yes it does.
I think Ive seen that picture to, its pretty sad.It makes me think of the picture of South and North korea at night. Its pretty easy to find on the internet.
To be fair, it’s not only white people that have said Cano is lazy. There’s an interview with his father that I’m too lazy (irony) to dig up where he said even his coaches growing up said he looked lazy.
Your probably right. Honestly I don’t watch many games(I’m stuck using gameday ) so my opinion is pretty useless in this situation.
he so very tall, brown and handsome.
Keep him for the year, then take the pick when he goes to the Dodgers for 8/200.
Well this thread sure escalated fast.
Can you imagine if this had been posted around noon? We’d probably be at 500 comments by now.
No kidding.
Thank God he waited ’till now. If for no other reason than because NP&H is around.
Can someone get me Ted’s cel phone number?
Ted vs. Rob G.
I’m not sure what could contain that. Elimination Chamber inside a steel cage inside Hell in a Cell?
More like a ten-second match.
Bundy!
Axisa would have to close the thread down.
There’s only one other thread that I’ve ever been of aware of being closed down. And that was due to overt sexism by a multitude of people.
Exactly.
Make Eddard the special guest referee.
Please spare us that Wanker.
Back to back nights now that we’ve had a very entertaining late night thread. Big props to Rob G and You should have shot Arod.
Maybe they are one and the same, veteran trolls using a multitude of personalities, then using other personae to attack himself and provoke even more emotion.
#ConspiraciesAboutTrolls
Nah, You should have shot Arod can’t be Rob G. The former has way too many typos. Those come naturally and no one is going to spend time making sure they eliminate all of them before posting a comment.
Besides, Mike would call out that person and tell them to stop posting under different names. Failure to comply would bring the ban hammer. Pretty sure I’ve seem him do that before.
Huh didn’t know that about ban hammer. Haven’t been around long enough to know. (Well, partly because I skip half the comments quite often if I see a big ass thread)
i won’t argue with you, but reading the last couple days of “should have … arod” i’ve seen some self-conscious errata. not big member style but probability would have a real person spelling shit right more often than that troll.
I don’t really think You should have shot Arod was a troll. He just seemed like a Big Member wannabe.
oh, shit. what i was saying.
I wasn’t picking up any sarcasm with him. I honestly thought he believed what he was typing.
This guy from last night was straight-up trolling, though.
“And there’s at least a chance Cano becomes a free agent after this season?”
I would say there’s at least a chance Cano won’t become a free agent after this season. I don’t see Boras not taking Cano to market.
Exactly… the only real downside risk for Cano at this point is a career impacting injury. Even a down year from Cano would probably not significantly impact his value at this point.
Even it the Yankees offered him FA type deal right now, Boras will just want to shop it around to drive up the Yankees price further. Negotiating with him now is only going to let him set a really high floor for the offseason. All he’s doing now is trying to gauge that fallback # in the offseason. The Yankees are effectively negotiation against themselves right now.
They should give him a #, get a # and if there is a large gap, table the discussions.
So the Yankees view Cano as one of the top 10-15 players, while Boras views Cano as a top five.
Hmmm, I wonder who is correct. I believe Cano has the highest WAR of any player over the last three years, although some of that is driven by Trout only playing one year, Hamilton injuries, Kemp injury, etc. And then there are pitchers. Hmmm, Boras may not be too far off here. Yikes.
EXACTLY. This thought that Robinson Cano would get some overpriced contract is ludicrous.
Is it an ideal contract to keep the Yankees flexible? No
Is Top 5 player in baseball Robbie’s worth? Hell Yeah.
I think the Yankees does view him as a top 5 but obviously can’t admit it or they’d have to pay way more instead of possibly a couple of million less if Cano takes a 1 million a year discount to join the Yankees. Very unlikely, but worth a shot, right?
It is amazing that Boras represents 12 of the top 5 players in baseball.
The problem is we can’t evaluate only the last 3 years. We have to evaluate the future, which is what the Yankees want to pay him for.
He’s he a top 2-3 player in 2013? It’s possible, but it’s not a guarantee.
Robbie should get whatever he can.
but i would really miss seeing his awesome across the body throws.
yankee for life. bet against at yer peril.
st.louis would jump at cano if the yankees asked for taveras and rosenthal. do it now cashman before you get nothing but a draft choice for cano.
Yea…no.
Everybody is saying that he would be waaay overpaid. But without Cano, 2014 will be horrible. It’s not like they had any glaring holes had ARod left after ’07, I mean they had Jeter, Abreu, Cano, Posada, and Melky, all healthy, along with Matsui, Giambi, and Damon as slight question marks. Without Cano, every place on the roster would be filled by rookies or mediocre players, and Tex would be our best player if Jeter has a down year. Having Gardner and maybe Granderson will be OK, but IMO without Cano, the Yankees are entering a rebuilding stage.
Its a show by Hal like he is going to pay Cano the money he requested.
The second baseman next year will either be David Adams or Corbin Joseph.
Nice to see what happens when the adults go to bed.
or Chase utley
The Yanks probably are in the 15-17 per year range while Boras is still up near 25-27 a year. They will pobably agree in the middle, which is about 20-22 Mill a year for about 7-8 years. Contract would be probably 140-176 range. That I think the Yanks will do. As for the Dodgers, 44 years at 91 per.
If Dodgers flop this year, they’ll think twice about opening their wallets any more
I think this is going to end badly. As in 8/200 badly.
Let him walk!
if yanks could get the top minor league prospect in baseball, trade cano. yanks are most likely, not winning the world series this year, so if you could get a can’t miss prospect and a second baseman i would do it rather than spending 200 million on a 31 year old second baseman. then resign granderson for 3 years to partially make up for cano’s bat.