Open Thread: 2/19 Camp Notes

David Phelps will start first Grapefruit League game on Saturday
Update: Phil Hughes out at least five days with bulging disc in back
World's most expensive ballboy. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)
World’s most expensive ballboy. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)

Notes from Tampa…

Here is your open thread for the night. The Rangers, Islanders, and Nets are all playing, so talk about any of those games or anything else that’s on your mind right here. Enjoy.

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David Phelps will start first Grapefruit League game on Saturday
Update: Phil Hughes out at least five days with bulging disc in back
  • trr

    Someone posted earlier that Hughes is being sent to a spine specialist, which would indicate his case more serious. Does anyone have anything further on that?

    • Dalek Jeter

      Probably just precautionary.

    • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

      I heard it about an hour ago on Michael Kay. He had no details other than he was to be seen tomorrow by a “spine specialist”

    • RetroRob

      Spines are overrated.

      • Havok9120

        I ditched mine last fall. Best decision I ever made.

        • Jacob the OG(formerly Jacob)

          Makes for great bar tricks

          • Robinson Tilapia

            “Someone find Phil Hughes! Where’s Phil Hughes?!”

            “Once he figured out what he could do without a spine, he’s been, um, by himself a lot.”

            • Jacob the OG(formerly Jacob)

              *Drum roll* The great R-Tills everyone!

            • MannyGeee

              *slow clap*

              • Robinson Tilapia

                It’s not always going to be Shakespeare.

        • The Guns of Navarone

          I lost mine after I got married.

          • Havok9120

            Now that was pretty good.

            Good to see you’re still alive, by the way.

            • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

              +1

              May have to watch Guns one night soon.

  • Dalek Jeter

    I would really like to see Sori as our RHH’ing DH and part time RF’er. Sure he’s slightly below average defensively, but he can’t be worse than Raul was…plus the dude still hits well from the right side. If the Cubs are still willing to eat a bunch of his contract, I’d actually be willing to give up a legit prospect for him.

    • Bob Buttons

      Marginal prospect or organizational guy? Yes.

      Legit prospect? I’d rather have Soriano throw water balloons at my face.

    • Havok9120

      Legit prospect? Ehhh. Like who? And how much of his contract you looking to offset?

      Let’s remember we’re talking 2014 dollars here, and we’re talking a bench piece that could turn right back into an injured pumpkin.

      • Dalek Jeter

        At one point last season (2012) the Cubs were willing to eat 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the contract if I remember correctly, and as for the injured pumpkin, he’s never missed more than 50 games (yeah I know that’s a lot) playing the field everyday. In NY he’d be playing far, far less in the field and therefore should at least stay healthy in theory.

        As for prospect, anybody from 10-30 on Mike’s top 30 list.

        • Havok9120

          Hmmm.

          I mean, even 9 million and Dellin Betances or CoJo, or Murphey (jus random names) for him over the next two seasons seems like a lot of money for what we could expect. I dunno. I’ve been split on whether he’d be worth about that price for most of the last year now. *shrug*

        • Bob Buttons

          Anyone under the age of 25 and is above rookie ball would be NO for me.

          He carries too much risk to give up anything legit.

        • Tom

          Earlier this offseason they talked with the Phillies and were willing to eat all but 10 mil (5mil per year)… and in exchange for that they wanted Dom Brown. (this was on MLBtrdaerumors so take with a grain of salt)

          I don’t think 10-30 is close to getting it done. I think they are looking for at least 5-10 range if they are going to eat most of the money.

          • Laz

            And I kind of agree. Sure he is overpaid, but Cubs can afford that salary. There is no need for them to ship a 30 hr player out, especially seeing as Soriano was better offensively than granderson last year, and I saw earlier in winter people wanted good trades for Grandy. Cubs want most of the salary gone or a prospect.

            • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

              Not only can they afford it, it’s a sunk cost. So they’re not going to eat salary and make a trade just because. I agree that they’d want a prospect who has a legit chance of becoming a useful major league piece.

      • Steve (different one)

        Serious question, how does Soriano still have TWO years left on that contract? He signed it approx 30 years ago.

        • Havok9120

          2 years and THIRTY-SIX MILLION DOLLARS.

          It’s a mystery. I mean, the dude was never ARod good, and the contract isn’t ARod bad. But yikes.

          • Laz

            Easy when 40 hr/ 40 sb with a .350 obp career year.

    • RetroRob

      You’d have to define what you view as a legit prospect. I’m sure you’re not talking about Austin, Sanchez, Williams, Heathcott, Banuelos or Campos, so that leads to who? Marshall? Warren?

    • Who hates bunts more? Axisa or Earl Weaver? (formerly Aunelowitzky)

      I’ve been there for about 6 weeks.

    • Jacob the OG(formerly Jacob)

      Agreed depending on the legit prospect view, I would be fine giving them a CoJo or an Adam Warren. Oh and if they want to give us someone that can at least get on base and play catcher I might be willing to throw in *gulp* ronnier mustilier.

      • Dalek Jeter

        Woah, relax there, get on base AND play catcher…no no no, Joe G and Cash won’t be having any of that!!! Just focus on the pitch framing…and fist pumps apparently. (Seriously, if we are looking for a strong defensive catcher, why is Franky even in the conversation?!)

        • Jacob the OG(formerly Jacob)

          Potential, and fist pumps, lots of fist pumps! But seriously just get on base, you could even hit .190

    • Robinson Tilapia

      It’s a good thing you think Shaeffer Hall is a legit prospect.

  • Bob Buttons

    To continue from last night.

    http://riveraveblues.com/2013/.....nt-5804091

    Three points to mention again
    1) Most of us know Mick had a knee injury in ’51. Less of us know Joe D. had an injury that left some people doubtful about his ability to play early in his career too.

    2) It’s completely reasonable to think that Mick had some help from YS as there were more RHSP (therefore he bats lefty more) and Joe D. got screwed over by Death Valley.

    3) I think DiMaggio’s era had better hitters, therefore he might have had a better OPS+ in Mantle’s era.

    So basically Mantle’s 172 OPS+ can be neutralized by DiMaggio’s 155 OPS+ using some shaky (but nevertheless plausible) points, such as park effect and era they played in. (Hey, we are saying who’s the better player, not who’s the better player compared to their peers, so OPS+ doesn’t paint the whole picture)

    • Dalek Jeter

      Really, to me, you’re arguing whether Glenlivet or MacCallen is better.

      I would take Mantle, just because he’s a switch hitter, but I would take either in a heartbeat.

      • Bob Buttons

        I just want to at least shed a light to show that DiMaggio isn’t that far from Mantle, if not better. Ever since I read two books on DiMaggio as a kid I am a huge supporter of his.

        • Dalek Jeter

          Seriously, Joe D is one of the all time greats, if Mantle was better (which I agree, probably debatable) it’s nominally so. For me, it’s really a coin flip as to which I would prefer.

        • vicki

          for balance read richard ben cramer’s joe d. bio. i came away thinking much less of dimag the man, if not dimag the player. what a bitter, miserable dick.

          • RetroRob

            I agree on DiMaggio the man. It didn’t decrease what I thought of him as a player.

            I highly recommend the bio. Quite enjoyable, even if it paints him as a bitter, miserable dick as you say.

      • Cris Pengiucci

        Macallan is better. Hands down.

        (I’d take Mantle due to the switch hitting as well, but it’s probably a toss up between the 2 of them.)

        • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

          12 or 18?

    • kenthadley

      Mantle was my hero growing up, but it was clear back then that Dimag was a better player. Even Mantle always acknowledged this. Besides the defense difference, the dimensions of YS for right handed batters that hindered Dimag have to be accounted for. Then, look at the strikeout numbers. I never knew anybody who seriously watched both ever consider Mantle the better ballplayer….the most gifted athlete, yes, but never the better ballplayer.

      • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

        I wonder how much Mantle would have been revered today since his womanizing, incessant partying and alcoholism would have been played up by the media to a much, much greater degree.

        I think a lot of fans would have resented the fact that he wasted a great deal of his god given talents by not being committed to being the best player he could have been.

        • Bob Buttons

          Later on Mantle himself acknowledged that he didn’t really take care of his body. Partially because he didn’t expect to live so long, seeing how early his dad passed on.

          • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

            Yeah, I’ve read that but I think in the present day, he would have been attacked and somewhat vilified for that behavior by the media and fans especially during all the injuries.

            • vicki

              it didn’t hurt david wells, for example, too badly. probably helped with his post-playing broadcasting career. of course boomer wasn’t a superstar and the expectations are different.

              • MannyGeee

                I still have Boomer with a heart attack in the death pool, but that may be a different conversation.

                • vicki

                  gasp.

                  i’ve run a dead pool for fifteen years, but my policy is to only auction people we don’t like.

        • kenthadley

          I’ve always believed the Mick would have been a poorer performer today, because of multi year contracts. He’d have sat out many more games, since he was always under pressure to perform for the next contract back in the 50’s. So yes, I agree with your point, along with other reasons why Mantle would have had a more difficult time in 21st century baseball…..probably a career closer to Josh Hamilton.

        • herby

          I don’t think you would’ve seen the same characteristics in this era though, much of those attributes were part of that era, groomed by some of the veterans that were on the team when he came up, with a blind eye turned by upper management.
          You can’t compare the type of person he was turned into then, to what he could’ve been now, it’s entirely different eras.

      • Who hates bunts more? Axisa or Earl Weaver? (formerly Aunelowitzky)

        My dad would agree with you 100%…but said the best player he ever saw was Willie Mays.

        • kenthadley

          Me too, and I was a Mick fan.

        • Jimmy

          My Dad was the biggest Mantle fan of all, and he still said Willie Mays was the best he ever saw.

    • LK

      One thing that I don’t think can be neutralized by your points is Mantle’s advantage in OBP. He walked far more than Dimaggio, and it wasn’t just because pitchers were scared of the power.

      • Bob Buttons

        I see your point but then again, my main focus is on OPS+, and how the cavernous LF did Joe no favour. I know that it’s nice to have guys who can get on base but DiMaggio and Mantle were the power guys on their team so more power for less walks kinda works.

  • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

    What a crock of bullshit from Oscar Pistorius today.

    Like someone could accidentally shoot his girlfriend 4 times through a locked Bathroom door because he thought there might be an intruder in there.

    • RetroRob

      I’m scarily fascinated by the story. It gets weirder every day. I mean, we’re supposed to believe he stumped to the bathroom because he thought there was an intruder, but he never bothered to check if it was his girlfriend, who was supposed to be in bed with him? And then he decided to shoot not knowing who was locked in the bathroom?

      Crazy.

      • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

        He tried to say it was pitch black in the room. Wouldn’t your first instinct be to turn the lights on, not fire a gun repeatedly though a closed door.

        Besides dark or not, you damn well know if someone is sleeping in bed next to you when you wake in the middle of the night.

        She obviously fled from him to the bathroom after some kind of argument and he started shooting through the door trying to murder her.

        • The Guns of Navarone

          She obviously fled from him to the bathroom after some kind of argument and he started shooting through the door trying to murder her.

          Or it was premeditated. He locked her in the bathroom and shot through the door, with the intent of using the “intruder” story for his defense all along.

          And it wouldn’t take much to know you shot her. Fire off your rounds when she’s banging on the door and you know she’s right there.

    • forensic

      Desperation makes you say some pretty stupid things.

      I wonder how similar their legal system is to ours. If it’s close, I would expect him to be begging for a plea deal some time soon, assuming they have solid evidence to show these shots through the door.

      • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

        I’ve read that they have no jury, just a judge or small group of judges hears the evidence and makes a decision.

        That’s good in my estimation. No opportunity for a slick defense attorney to confuse a group of semi-ignorant people like they did in the OJ trial.

        • herby

          I’ll stick with our system.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            + 80,000,000,000

        • vicki

          and of course they have no death penalty.

    • Bo Knows

      Playing devils advocate here:

      If you lived in a nation that has an absurdly high crime rate (Johannisburg where he lives is one of the 5 worst cities in the world when it comes to crime) its very plausible that if you heard something in the middle of the night, your first thought would be someone is in my house that’s not supposed too. Especially if your an individual who has stated on numerous occasions to actually feel the need to sleep with a loaded gun next to your bed, have a bat next to your door and several other firearms scattered around your home in various hiding places in case someone tries to break in.

      • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

        OK so how do you wake in the middle of the night and not know if your girlfriend is lying in bed right next to you?

        Also if you hear a noise and the bathroom door is closed, your first reaction is to fire shots through the door rather than ask your girlfriend if she’s in the bathroom?

        I call bullshit on that.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I haven’t a clue.

          I just feel terrible about the whole thing and it kinda stops there.

          • Manny’s Banwagon

            I feel bad too. Not only was she gorgeous but seemed to be very intelligent also.

            I just hope justice is served and this doesn’t become South Africa’s OJ.

            • Robinson Tilapia

              Well, I also feel bad as to this man’s fall from grace. Clearly, something beyond his physical issues had gone very wrong in this man’s life.

              • Manny’s Banwagon

                I have little sympathy for Pistorius. He deserves whatever he gets.

                • vicki

                  he should be drawn and halved.

                  i know, i know. too soon.

        • The Guns of Navarone

          Plus, we all know intruders go straight for the bathroom once they enter your house.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            It may have taken them a while to break in.

            • Preston

              And that’s why you always go before you leave the house.

              • Robinson Tilapia

                Nothing worse than doing just that, then still having to go again when you’re halfway there and/or halfway through breaking into someone’s home.

          • Manny’s Banwagon

            Maybe there’s a TP shortage in south Africa.

        • Bo Knows

          Once again, I’m saying it’s plausible; I’m not defending him on what may or may not have happened on that night. My feelings on the entire subject is to wait until all details come to light because I’ve been hearing too many conflicting details. I do not care if he is innocent and this was an accident or guilty and he murdered her in cold blood. The only thing that 100% fact is an innocent life was taken before her time, and her family and friends are devastated. I pray that justice is done, first and foremost.

          To your point, your not going to always sleep snuggled up close against someone in bed, I know I don’t.never but whenever I’ve woken up in the middle of the night, to get something to drink/take a piss/etc I’m going to assume my girl is still in bed with me and go about my business. I’m not going to necessarily look over, or reach and touch her. Though I will admit the only time, I can recall not being able to feel when a lady friend wasn’t in bed with me was when we were on a trip and had a king sized bed in our hotel room.

          • Manny’s Banwagon

            You’re right about it’s better to wait till all the fact come out pass judgement but while your scenario has a non zero chance of being accurate, IMO it’s extremely unlikely.

            As for your 2nd point, if there’s enough light in the apartment for you to be able to walk over to a balcony, carry in a fan, close the door and get a gun from under the mattress, then IMO, there’s enough light to see your GF sleeping in the bed.

            I’d also like to hear one person honestly say they’d fire a gun through a closed bathroom door while not knowing for certain that your GF wasn’t in there

            • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

              The one thing I’ll say that cannot be overstated here is the heightened sense of fear/paranoia in which people – especially the well to do – live in Joburg. It’s like a prison state. Even middle class homes have high masonry walls, and razor wire and cameras are not even a little uncommon. Add money and fame to the mix and the crazy gets exponentially higher. I have friends there are and every one of them drives with a loaded pistol under their seat. It’s just an entirely different experiential culture than ours.

              And, I also agree about the king sized bed. I sleep on the side closer to the door of the room so if I get up in the night I don’t make a point of checking whether my wife is there. I assume she is and simply go about my business trying my best not to step on the cat.

              Personally I think he’s guilty. But I do think the points above worth mentioning.

  • https://twitter.com/KramerIndustry Kramerica Industries

    Little late, but regarding the mention of the third-to-first fake elimination in the “Need for Speed” entry, all I can say is that we, Yankee fans, are easily the biggest winners with that, because we will never have to hear “the ole Jeff Nelson move’ again.

    • Bob Buttons

      Don’t get so happy just yet, I’m sure they’ll find a way to annoy the viewers.

      “And there he goes. I bet with a big a lead he took, he would have been dead fish if they didn’t ban the ol’ Jeff Nelson move”

      • Havok9120

        I’m expecting to hear that, or something like it. Fairly often.

        Every time Gardner gets a lead it’ll be “With a lead like that, he’s lucky they banned the ‘ole Jeff Nelson.”

        Even better: “People tell me that move never worked. But tell me this: if the Jeff Nelson didn’t work, WOULD THEY HAVE BANNED IT??! Eh? Exactly.”

        • Dalek Jeter

          I hear Micheal Kay saying the second one in my head as if he’s said it already and I’m simply remembering it.

        • herby

          Will Jeff Nelson be allowed in for Old Timers’ Day? I think it’s a bit ridiculous though for the 2 or 3 idiots that actually got picked off during the year with it. A lot of fuss over nothing.

    • Thurdonpaul

      Except now in that situation Michael Kay will talk about..this is where they would have done the old jeff nelson play….

      • Dalek Jeter

        Yeah, basically this.

      • https://twitter.com/KramerIndustry Kramerica Industries

        DON’T RAIN ON MY PARADE!

  • RetroRob

    So under crazy news, the two highest paid OFers for the New York Mets in 2013 will be – – – Bobby Bonilla and Jason Bay. Yikes. Neither, of course, are on the team. That’s wrong on multiple fronts. Bay will make $21M, while Bonnilla, who retired back in 2000, will be paid his yearly salary of $1,193,248.20.

    I never paid much attention to Bonilla’s deal, figuring the deferred payments will probably be ending soon. No. They continue on for like, I don’t know, as long as life on this planet will be around. I guess that’s exaggeration. I certainly hope that’s an exaggeration since in reality he’ll only be collecting his $1,193,248.20 for another twenty-two years, until 2035, when Bobby-Bo will be 72.

    All this because he had one year left on his contract. One figgin year where he was owed $5.9M, so the Mets renegotiated it so they would be paying him a seven-figure salary until he is 72 years old.

    Bonilla turns 50 years old this weekend. Happy Birthday, Bobby. Next beer’s on you.

    • Steve (different one)

      What, interest rates won’t stay at 8% forever?

      • RetroRob

        The deal was also structured when the Wilpon’s were using Bernie Madoff to invest their money. They no doubt figured they’d easily exceed that 8% rate. In fact, the great rate of return they were getting probably encouraged them to structure the Bonilla deal.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      The Mets offered Bonilla to the Yanks. Hal said they’d be interested, but couldn’t fit it in the budget.

      *pa-dunk!*

      I once had a gag Bonilla t-shirt custom made for a Mets game.

    • Pat D

      According to one of Rob Neyer’s books, when the Braves signed Bruce Sutter before the 1985 season, they gave him a 6-year contract worth $800K per year, still a pretty good annual salary in those days.

      HOWEVER!

      They also purchased Sutter an annuity that, beginning in 1991, would pay him $1.4 million per year for 30 YEARS!!!

      That’s right. Bruce Sutter has been collecting $1.4 million for the past 22 years, and has 8 more years left. Yet you never hear about this. I guess it’s because the Braves didn’t have the financial issues? Who knows. But wouldn’t you like to collect $1.4 mil a year for 30 years?

  • Dalek Jeter

    http://25.media.tumblr.com/cd5.....o1_500.jpg

    A little bit of fun and The Bieb’s expense.

    • herby

      Now there’s a guy that reminds me the baseball players actually earn their contracts in comparison.

      • Dalek Jeter

        In Beib’s defense, unlike other pop stars, he’s actually a relatively talented musician. Honestly, the kid can rock a drum kit better than most 18 year olds, and I’d probably actually respect him as an artist if he didn’t go the bubble-gum pop route.

        • herby

          I’ve known some pretty talented 18 year olds. As a person though, he’s got a long way to go.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I’m willing to defend a lot of pop stars. I’ve yet to see anything from Bieber that convinces me he’s anything accept a vessel for someone’s material. My wife thinks he has “swag,” but I don’t buy it. Never heard him pull it off in a “live” performance. I don’t hear a personality in his voice that sets him apart, despite the material (hell, and I think KE$HA has personality, so the bar is not high.) I don’t think he somehow guts it through through really good production choices like Britney well into his 20’s.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            “except a vessel.”

            That’s my “Brett Marshall” for the evening.

          • Dalek Jeter

            I think that’s a lot to do with the fact that his instrument of choice is the drums. Nobody (but drummers) go to a concert to see drummers preform.

            • Robinson Tilapia

              One of the things I do blame Kurt Cobain for in life is pretty much killing off the concert drum solo…..unless you’re 60 and still idolize Neal Peart.

              • Dalek Jeter

                The only thing I blame Kurt Cobain for is his heroin addiction and marrying that bitch from Hole Courtney Love.

                • Manny’s Banwagon

                  That’s one hole he should have avoided.

                • Robinson Tilapia

                  I love Courtney. I hate the “America’s Sweetheart” album, but thought even the most recent Hole reboot was a pretty good album.

                  • Dalek Jeter

                    As a musician, she’s decent..as a lyricist, she’s good when she’s collaborating with a great writer (Cobain/Gallagher), as a human being…she’s bad and I still think she might have killed Kurt.

                    • Robinson Tilapia

                      She didn’t kill him. A friend of mine worked A&R for the label at the time, was (very) tight with Grohl and was at the funeral.

                      I’ve always thought some of the criticism hurled against “Live Through This” was partly just purely sexist, as if a woman couldn’t have been the driving force behind such a great album in the grunge era.

                    • Dalek Jeter

                      I’m sure that was a huge part of it, partly because Love didn’t fall in line to the prototypical female lead like Stifani did. No Doubt’s albums, at least IMO get more and more poppy as they go on, and I think part of that was Record Execs (or Stefani herself) pushed them in that direction because they had a female lead.

                    • Dalek Jeter

                      Also, I have very few conspiracy theories R-Tils, at least let me have this one!

                    • Robinson Tilapia

                      I already sent an FB message to my friend for a proper retort to your claim. :)

                      I have no doubt that No Doubt (HA!) really did start out as a bunch of ska-loving SoCal kids. Seemed to me like Gwen was able to indulge in other things as the cash rolled in – can’t imagine she was always into high-end Japanese fashion.

                      Why does the name of the first Hole album escape me now – my wife would not be happy – but it’s MUCH rawer than “Live Through This” and not even remotely the same band that later did “Celebrity Skin.”

                    • Dalek Jeter

                      Was in Pretty on the Inside? if so, much like a lot of other grunge from the era it was a mess of guitar riffs, anger, noise, and loudness that worked together to help create an overall awesomness.

                    • Robinson Tilapia

                      Yup.

        • MannyGeee

          This. While I am against just about everything that has been released over the past 3 years musically, Justin Beiber is actually a pretty talented musician.

          He plays many musical instruments, very well at that. Even if he went the John Mayer route instead of the Donnie Osmond route he would have won me over. Too bad he has all that musical talent and ZERO musical taste.

          That’s unfair. He might like good music, we just would not know what inspires him from an artistic standpoint, since he is the Vanilla Ice of this generation. I blame his parents, who had they been American instead of Canadian would be the Deena & Micheal Lohan of the music industry.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    Read this yet?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/y.....39543.html

    I’m not saying it’s all roses, but most of the Yankee-related stuff is the journalistic equivalent of sticking your tongue out at someone.

    • herby

      Yea, I saw that, he came across as finding a way to fault the team and the prospects at any turn. Even players who hadn’t gotten a chance to develop. I’m a fan of Montero, and still think he’s going to be a good player, but when he described him as a, “Masher,” I could tell there wasn’t going to be much balance to the article.

      • Barry

        it’s not a bad article but it’s nit picking. subtract a few trades and add in war from players from trades and that little graph looks much different.

    • Havok9120

      I saw it, even opened it in a tab, but then decided that every little bit helps when it comes to heart longevity.

      • Bob Buttons

        But they do say that a hearty laugh is good for cardiovascular health.

    • Dalek Jeter

      Basically this is a 2,000 word raspberry. My favorite part was when he quoted Brett Marshall’s MLB ERA last season after all of 1 start.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        Adam Warren, you mean?

        • Dalek Jeter

          Yes…this is why we need an edit option Mike. Some of us are mentally challenged man.

      • Havok9120

        Wait, seriously?

        • Dalek Jeter

          Yep. “Warren made one start for the Yankees last season and returned to Triple-A with a 23.14 ERA.”

      • RetroRob

        I couldn’t even get through it. The worst part about sabermetrics is when people don’t really understand now use it to try and make some fabricated point.

        Yahoo’s content sites are under a lot of pressure to drive traffic and revenue. I’ll leave it at that.

        • Govin

          Oh good I wasn’t alone, I know the article was bad, because I have succesfuly forgotten what was in it five minutes after reading it.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          Yahoo’s content sites are under a lot of pressure to drive traffic and revenue. I’ll leave it at that.

          ——————

          True but I feel the main point of his article is correct. Their track record in developing pitching is not as good as they make it out to be. Now of course that could change over time.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        Yea that was petty. He can’t go crazy over 1 start.

    • Bob Buttons

      Summary of article:
      Yankees farm produced one of the highest WAR amongst pitchers in the majors last season, but who the bloody hell cares? They didn’t produce enough major leaguers to spread out the WAR. That’s why their farm sucks.
      (Seriously, I think that’s what he meant by the article)

      My take: Jeff Passan, the guy who have never heard of “quality over quantity” or realizes that it’s much easier to replace marginal talent than solid contributors.

    • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com Mike Eder

      Yankees have 9th highest WAR for homegrown pitchers, but Passan insists that they’re braggers who stink at developing pitchers. How about the pitchers who became something over the last 5 years?

      Kershaw- 7th overall
      Price- 1st overall
      Strasburg- 1st overall
      Sale- 13th overall
      Gonzalez- 38th overall
      Cueto- $35,000 bonus
      Latos- 11th round
      Darvish- $111.7 million commitment
      Scherzer- 11th overall
      Zimmermann- 67th overall
      Bumgarner- 10th overall

      This just shows how good pitchers are usually a product of high draft picks, and not necessarily development. In terms of who was available for the Yankees to develop, I don’t think you can count Darvish, since he was already developed in Japan. The Yankees only had a shot at signing 4 of those, Latos, Zimmermann, Cueto, and Gonzalez. They opted to take Hughes over Gonzalez in 2004, and Brackman over Zimmermann in 2007.

      The Yankees have had a number of great pitching prospects, which is pretty incredible considering how limited they are with their low draft picks. Add in the fact that Yankee prospects are always over hyped, Yankee Stadium and the AL East are hitter-friendly, and the Yankees are an organization always looking to win now, placing 9th in overall WAR is pretty good.

      Passan is being overly transparent by creating this bragging narrative and then ignoring the data that he himself presents. I’m not going to accuse him of being anti-Yankees, but anti-Yankee posts always do a good job of drawing an audience.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Just FYI: Latos was a draft-and-follow. 11th round pick but $1M+ bonus.

        • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com Mike Eder

          Good point. Baseball America ranked Latos #32 overall before the draft, right around the Yankees 30th overall pick. For anyone that cares, Brackman was ranked 7th.

      • Preston

        We are also limited by how few opportunities we have to debut pitchers. We pay big money FAs to fill those roster spots. The A’s compile a lot of WAR because they have to throw out home grown pitchers. When you factor in draft position, the fact that we use a lot of prospects as trade chips and that there is limited opportunity at the big league level, I think 10th in the league is a respectable place to be.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Absolutely.

        • forensic

          We are also limited by how few opportunities we have to debut pitchers. We pay big money FAs to fill those roster spots.

          This isn’t necessarily exactly true though. There’s a chicken or egg argument to be made. Which started it first? Do they not debut because they paid big FA’s or did they have to pay big FA’s because they couldn’t get anyone necessarily good enough to debut?

          • The Big City of Dreams

            It’s the second one IMO opinion.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        You don’t think when it comes to developing pitching the Yankees brag a bit?

    • Laz

      Never really respected Passan’s journalism. His baseball rationale has always seemed to be lacking, he just goes with whatever is popular.

      • Now Batting

        His job is to attract unique clicks. Nothing does it better than an article bashing the Yankees.

        • MannyGeee

          That said, I wish I could take back my unique click. I feel violated…

        • The Big City of Dreams

          The Yankee does come off as bashing but his main point is their shaky track record in developing pitching. I think that point still stands

          • The Big City of Dreams

            It does not the Yankee

    • MannyGeee

      Yup. Lost interest at “Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Expert”

      • Manny’s Banwagon

        Wasn’t Passan the guy who broke the story on the Red Sux mutiny against Valentine last year humiliating all the Boston beat writers in the process.

        That’s 1 feather in his cap IMO.

      • nsalem

        Speaking of experts I was listening to Francesa the other day, He was rattling off Bonds stats in his heyday and he was confusing plate appearances with AB’s. Today whoever was subbing for him this afternoon mentioned that Pineda was recovering from TJS. Really sad considering that this is what they do for a living.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Agreed. I don’t expect these guys to spout off advanced stats off the top of their heads, but get basic information right.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            True but doing a show for several hours you’re bound to even get the basic things wrong. Look at how many times they’ll be talking about a certain subject and say Mets when it’s suppose to be Yankees or Nets when it’s suppose to be Knicks.

            • Jim Is Bored

              There’s a HUGE difference between mixing up the Yankees/Mets/Nets and flat out getting a surgery wrong.

              • The Big City of Dreams

                You’re right but it happens. Not saying they shouldn’t be called out for it but it happens more often than not.

        • RetroRob

          …which reminds me of this always-enjoyable clip.

          Just don’t call him Al.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfdc8n93Mf

    • Pat D

      I started to read it and then stopped when I realized I was reading a Yahoo Sports article.

  • Bob Buttons

    In random Giants un-news,

    Kiwanuka is the grandson of the first prime minister of Uganda. Yes, our LB and 06 first rounder Kiwanuka.

    • vicki

      old news!

    • Pat D

      Yea, old news. I believe his grandfather was one of Idi Amin’s many victims.

      • Who hates bunts more? Axisa or Earl Weaver? (Formerly Austin Aunelowitzky)

        Really old news for a BC boy like me.

  • nsalem

    Does anyone know where to to find minor league offensive splits, Unless I’m missing something I just see the last 10 games on milb,com and nothing at all on reference. Specifically looking for Cervelli’s minor league splits against LHP. Though with limited power and a limited sample size (about 190 PA’s) his MLB OBP split against lefties is .414 and I was wondering if it was anywhere near that in the minors,

    • Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)

      This only goes back to 2011, unfortunately.

      http://minorleaguecentral.com/.....split=3000

      • nsalem

        Thanks much. I was surprised to see that even basic splits are not available on reference and milb,

  • Pat D

    As someone relatively new to Facebook, I have to say that I find it hilarious when I see friends and/or family like, comment upon, or link to “stories” that have floated around the internet for several years and are either not verifiable or patently untrue.

    Just reminds me how the internet in the wrong hands is such a dangerous weapon.

    • Bo Knows

      Do yourself a favor, and leave FB ASAP….that entire thing is nothing more than pure unadulterated evil, that will destroy your mind faster than any alcohol or Yo Gabba Gabba marathon

      • Pat D

        Nah, can’t do that. I’m already used to ignoring most stuff that’s on there. One of my former coworkers relentlessly posts things about dogs that are about to be destroyed, which is depressing and annoying at the same time.

        • MANNYGEEE

          My favorite Facebook move is the sympathy grab-

          Some chick: “something something something depressing, but everything is gonna be fine….”
          Chicks friend: “what’s wrong?”
          Some chick: “well, I really can’t talk about it on here…..”

          Ummmmmm, WHY DAFAQ DID YOU BRING IT UP YOU KARMA GRUBBING WHORE!!?????!?!?!

          • Andy

            Replace “Chicks friend” with “Guy who wants to hook up with her” and you’ve accurately described my entire facebook feed.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      that have floated around the internet for several years and are either not verifiable or patently untrue.

      ——————–

      Stories such as what exactly?

      • Pat D

        The one that I saw tonight was a family member posting some other page’s photo about a economics professor who failed his entire class to show that “Obama’s socialism” would fail. The reason I didn’t mention it explicitly is that I didn’t want to start a political pissing match.

        Anyway, I did a couple of searches and found that this story has been around since at least 2009 and that no versions of the story indicate what this professor’s name is or the name of the school where he teaches, which pretty much makes me believe it’s a fabrication. In fact, one site where I found some info on the story had comments saying that it was something straight out of Ayn Rand.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          lol sounds like a crazy story. Stuff like that you automatically scroll pass.

  • Dalek Jeter

    By god we need baseball, nearly 200 comments ranging from Oscar Pistorius, to Alfonso Soriano, to what may or may not be possible w/o a spine, to Justin Beiber and Courtney Love’s musical prowess(in the same thread) this is insanity.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Beats last night.

      • Pat D

        I apologize for nothing!

      • Dalek Jeter

        True, and to continue our discussion of early 90s music down here, some of my favorite bands (Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Josh Homme and anything he touches) come from that era. I feel like I should have been in my 20s then, as opposed to now. Nothing good in music is really happening now, even to be this age a decade ago, when the NJ music scene was huge would’ve been awesome.

        • Dalek Jeter

          Oh, and of course the Chili Peppers before they went soft (and were still awesome, but just a different style)

          • Robinson Tilapia

            They got really bad for a while there in the past decade, although I don’t mind some of the new album. “Freaky Styley” through BSSM, though….

            • Dalek Jeter

              Blood Sugar Sex Magic and Mother’s Milk are two of my favorite albums of all time. I also really liked Californiacation. By The Way was meh at best, and some of Stadium Arcadium (which incidently is the tour I saw them on) was good, while other parts were just bad.

              • LK

                FS, UMPP, MM, and BSSM is a quartet of albums I’d put up against any consecutive releases from one band ever. Unfortunately since then I think it’s been a rather steep decline. I can understand why people like Californication and the others, but it’s not for me and doesn’t hold a candle to the earlier stuff in my opinion.

                • Dalek Jeter

                  Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of The Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals, and The Wall.

                  • Robinson Tilapia

                    I’d adjust that slightly.

                    I like “Animals,” but I don’t think it achieves “classic” status. I honstly think “Meddle” is WAY underrated in that catalog.

                    FWIW, I wound up becoming a huge Roxy Music fan in the past few years. I’d rank their five albums very highly.

                • Pat D

                  Rubber Soul, Revolver and Sgt. Pepper are probably the best three in a row in music history.

                  But Help! was before Rubber Soul, which isn’t one of their best, and Magical Mystery Tour was after Sgt. Pepper, which wasn’t originally a full album.

                • Jimmy

                  Zeppelin 1-4?

                  • Pat D

                    Ooh, that’s a good one.

                • Robinson Tilapia

                  The Bends/OK Computer/Kid A are a trio I’d put up against anything in history.

        • Pat D

          Most of my favorite music was recorded before I was born. How do you think I feel?

          • Dalek Jeter

            slightly worse than I (who was 0-4 and 11-15 when most of my favorite music was recorded)

            • Pat D

              Yea, my favorite musician was murdered 2 months before I was born.

              • Dalek Jeter

                Lennon? If so, excellent choice.

                • Pat D

                  Lennon indeed.

                  • Robinson Tilapia

                    I remember the assassination on the news. I was five. I’d never heard of him at the time. Little did I know…

                    I was born at the right time, I guess? The only drawback is that I’m forever going to be a pretty useless encyclopedia of 80’s hair metal.

                    There’s always good music. Plenty of good music now. Just have to stay on top of things and maintain a wide lens.

                    • Pat D

                      I’m still discovering stuff from the older days. I’m trying to get into Velvet Underground but so far…not working.

                    • Dalek Jeter

                      Honestly, to me the only really good “new” musicians out there are The XX, Mumford and Sons, and The Gaslight Anthem. (Gaslight is still my favorite modern band)

                    • herby

                      There’s always something different to discover. Probably my biggest regret would be not getting into the Ramones when they were current. My musical tastes are pretty much all over the place now though.

                    • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

                      Pat D not even Rock And Roll?

                    • Pat D

                      Not even rock and roll? I’m not sure what you mean.

                    • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

                      Pat sorry I meant the song Rock And Roll by the VU. Not a fan?

                    • Pat D

                      I’m not sure if I’ve heard that one yet.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Kyuss – “Sky Valley.” Best thing Homme ever did. Never been a huge fan of his, but that album is just heavy as hell.

          • Dalek Jeter

            Really? I loved Queens of the Stone Age and Them Crooked Vultures. The Eagles of Death Metal was/is pretty good too. I’ve been meaning to get into Kyuss, but haven’t had the time to really, like listen to them.

            • LK

              Era Vulgaris is one of my favorite albums. Not familiar with all of Homme’s work but that CD rocks pretty hard.

  • Dalek Jeter

    Anybody else going to watch Comedy Central’s new show The Jeselnik Offensive tonight?

    • The Guns of Navarone

      I really liked him on the roasts but his stand-up special didn’t do much for me. His comedy is a lot like Lisa Lampanelli… where the only comedy comes from the shock value and it’s not clever at all. Only, instead jokes about fucking black guys and having a huge pussy, he makes jokes about the holocaust and dead babies and so on.

      And his delivery is super annoying.

      • Dalek Jeter

        Yeah, his delivery sucks, however I like awful people jokes, and his first guests (Amy Schumer and Aziz Ansari) are two of my favorite comics right now.

        And, 20 minutes into the show, he seems like a poor man’s Daniel Tosh.

        • The Guns of Navarone

          He was (maybe still is) banging Schumer. She’s not overly attractive but she turns me on for some reason.

          • Dalek Jeter

            For me, it’s her smile and her absolute openness about sex and how much she loves it. (which is still really rare when people are in a public light.)

            • The Guns of Navarone

              The legs don’t hurt either.

              • Dalek Jeter

                No, no, they do not.

              • Robinson Tilapia

                Just had to Google her. Cute.

          • Dalek Jeter

            Wow, they’re giving Schumer her own show too. I think they’re already looking for Tosh’s replacement, because he plans to retire from public life (or kill himself) in 98 days.

            • The Guns of Navarone

              I didn’t hear that about Tosh. Is he pulling a Chappelle?

              I think that’s the new direction of Comedy Central. Kroll Show, The Burn with Jeff Ross, Jeselnik Offensive, Schumer…

              • Dalek Jeter

                I hope, for their sake, Schumer’s show is good, because Kroll isn’t great, Jeselnik gets a thumbs down after one episode, and I personally find Jeff Ross annoying as fuck.

                • Robinson Tilapia

                  Funniest Jeff Ross thing I ever saw was his taunting Pam Anderson with a fur coat during her roast. What a dick move.

                  • Dalek Jeter

                    In his defense, all bets are off during a roast. You’re basically asking for people to bash you for an hour and a half. However, I think he takes it too far in creating shows like Roast The World, and his only brand of comedy is to be mean, and he’s just a mean spirited person.

                    • The Guns of Navarone

                      And you like Jeselnik’s comedy?

                    • Dalek Jeter

                      It’s hit or miss for me honestly, Guns. I just think Tosh and even Jeselnik do it in a more intelligent way.

                • Pat D

                  I had no idea who Amy Schumer is, but I looked her up and found it funny that she dated Dolph Ziggler.

            • Pat D

              Say wha??

              • Dalek Jeter

                Yeah, he said it a bunch early in his career, he plans to either blow his brains out or retire to a beach when he turns 38. Then again, now he’s massively popular, I’m sure he’s changed his mind.

                • Pat D

                  Yea, he’s not going to pull a Chappelle.

                  • Dalek Jeter

                    Nobody thought Chappelle would pull a Chappelle, either. Dude was on top of the world, one of the funniest man on the planet, running one of the funniest and most ground breaking show on the planet, and then he just lost it.

                    • Pat D

                      Yea, but what I’ve read about it since made it obvious why he quit. He had an idea for the show, Comedy Central had another, he said, “Fuck you” and walked away.

                      He is the only person I’ve ever heard of to walk away from a $50 million contract, but that’s what it was.

                    • The Big City of Dreams

                      He didn’t lose it.

                    • The Big City of Dreams

                      Yea basically felt that after sometime the people and even production where laughing at him not with him. The show poked fun at every race and a majority of the jokes are geared toward African Americans. Even though it was his show after a while that stuff has to wear on you.

                    • Pat D

                      I think he resented that the show suddenly became all about the catchphrases. He’d be doing his standup and the crowd would shout “I’m Rick James, bitch!” at him. That pissed him off. He also said that people would come up and say that to him when he was in public with his kids. His reaction was to say, “Can you not say that in front of my kids?”

                      I also heard a story of one particular sketch from the aborted 3rd season that really angered him, though I don’t remember what that was.

                      He basically became a victim of his own success.

          • Mike HC

            Schumer has a great joke about every guy thinking they are the only one turned on by her.

  • free speech

    HUGHES IS GONE AFTER THIS YEAR 189,189,189,189,,,I am back

    • Pat D

      Probably not for long.

    • Govin

      Mike we have a problem.

    • Havok9120

      yaaaaaaay

      Your penetrating insight was deeply and sorely missed in our Open Threads about religion, gun violence, music, music, religion, Israel, back pain, music, and Joe/the Mick comparisons.

      I’m honestly not sure how we soldiered on without you.

      • Dalek Jeter

        For the record my stance on all are bad, bad, mostly bad, mostly bad, bad, neutral, bad, mostly bad, and coin flip.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Blog comment sections: Not “free speech.”

  • mustang

    Cano told reporters that “it’s not about the money,” Andy McCullough of the Star-Ledger reports.

    PLEASE!!
    Then tell your agent to get a deal done right now and let’s move on.

    Don’t have a problem with Cano going for the big payday it’s his right to do so, but please don’t insults everyone’s intelligence by making bullshit statements.

    • Pat D

      “It’s not about the money” is the dumbest thing for an athlete with a soon to be expiring contract to say.

      Nobody believes him when he says it. On the other hand, if the athlete should come out and say they want the money, they’ll be given the tongue lashing of a lifetime from a bunch of dipshit reporters.

      • mustang

        How about not saying anything or using the now famous ” I’m only worry about winning a championship this season our let the contract thing work itself out in the off season’ or something to that effect?

        • Havok9120

          By all accounts, that’s ALL THEY ASKED HIM ABOUT for about half an hour. I mean, there’s only so many ways a person can handle being hasseled that way over the same 2 or 3 questions and the vast majority of those ways involve banalities and semi-disingenuousness.

          • mustang

            I’m sorry not buying it. How many other Yankees have gone through the same process and manage to avoid the land mines?

            You fire your agent and hire Scott “$$$$” Boras it’s all about the money so please he should just stop.

        • Pat D

          Because then they’d just start putting words in his mouth or accusing him of saying nothing. Shit like that.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          I’m only worry about winning a championship this season our let the contract thing work itself out in the off season’ or something to that effect?

          ———————-

          He says that and the headline the next day is “CANO WANTS OUT DOESN’T SEE HIMSELF A YANKEE PAST THIS YEAR”

    • mustang

      “Sherman suggests that the Yankees would be willing to spend $171MM over seven years to retain the four-time All-Star.”

      If this is true I expect Cano to be sign by the end of the month because we all know Mr. Boras like Cano is not about the money.

      LMAO

      • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

        In defense of Cano it’s possible he was referring to the number of years ie maybe the AAV is okay or in the ballpark but he’s looking for 8-10 years vs 7. Yes, that too is a form of more money, but if he was speaking with the context of their current conversation I can see how he could say that with a straight face.

        That said, it’s about the money.

  • The Big City of Dreams

    Sorry for all the typos in my comments. Note to self it’s not smart to wake up and jump on the computer immediately

  • JohnC

    The late Giants GM George Young said it best, ‘Whenever they say its not about the money, trust me, its ALWAYS about the money.”

  • Bavarian Yankee

    just read on MLBTR that Price wouldn’t sign a longterm deal with the Yankees.

    Quoting from MLBTR:

    Once he hits free agency, he doesn’t intend to sign with an organization that burdens its players with rules. For example, if the Yankees traded for him, he wouldn’t stay there very long. “I wouldn’t sign a long-term deal there,” he told Morosi. “Those rules, that’s old-school baseball.”

    Future Yankee David Price sure knows how to make things interesting. I’m sure he’d sign with anyone anyway, they just need to throw a sh!tload of money at him ;)

    • Pat D

      Yea, that’s just lip service to keep Tampa fans, all eight of them (had to!), happy with him in order to make it seem like they actually have a chance to keep him.

    • Govin

      Price continued saying, I can see that Yankees style of baseball is old and outdated.When have they one at least ninety five games?(an awkward pause)What about a world series?O ya they where the last American league team to win it.(No he didn’t say that but he should of.)

      Hes fighting against that pull, slowly dragging him towards his destiny of being a Yankee. You can’t fight it David its to awesome.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        Come to papa, David. You’re going to like the way you look.

        • Govin

          I guarantee it.