Feb
02

Saturday Night Open Thread

By

“It’s gonna be cold, it’s gonna be grey, and it’s gonna last you the rest of your life.”

A rather fitting quote from a great movie on a chilly and overcast Saturday in New York. It’s also Groundhog Day, and apparently the groundhog did not see his shadow so that means an early spring. Sure it does. Hey, whatever brings baseball weather as soon as possible is a-okay in my book.

Anyway, here is your open thread for the evening. The Rangers and Knicks are both playing, but you folks know how these things work. Talk about whatever you want here. Enjoy.

Categories : Open Thread
  • RetroRob

    Today’s open thread informs me that my browser does not support iframes, whatever that means.

    Super Bowl tomorrow means one thing: Baseball right around the corner. Yet I’ll be living in Europe for most of the summer, so not sure how much I’ll see. I guess if the Yankees want to pick a year to suck, this will be it, not that I want that to happen.

    • radnom

      mlb.tv

      I know it works it Europe, I sometimes use a UK proxy to bypass blackouts.

    • MannyGeee

      Which also means your garden variety evening game will start no earlier than 2AM. Which can suck.

      • Austin Aunelowitzky

        Yup. Asia would have to be the better place to live and follow U.S. baseball.

      • Andy

        I know that in America at least, you can watch the whole games about a half hourish after it ends.

    • YankeesJunkie

      MLB TV works great in Europe if you are willing to pay the $120 it is a great deal if you watch the games or have time to watch the game. In addition, MLB TV will show the playoff games in Europe so if you can’t get over 1 am start times, go for it.

  • Pat D

    Glad to see that the Pro Football HOF can’t get it right either.

    • RetroRob

      Just as long as they elected Craig Biggio I’m okay.

      Don’t they don’t something weird, where they have to elect five players every year, regardless if five oare worthy?

      The baseball HOF has it’s issues, but frankly the debate is actually a good thing. I would not want them to ever go the NFL route. Imagine if suspected PED users in the NFL weren’t eligible. Crickets every year. All NFL players took PEDs. Every.Single.One.

      • Pat D

        They have a list of 15 finalists of which they elect no more than 5. I think they have to elect at least 3. There are also two senior candidates, who almost always get elected these days.

        My problem isn’t how they elect because I think that pretty much everyone who was on the finalist ballot was deserving. Bill Parcells finally got in, which is great. My problem is that Michael Strahan didn’t get in and Warren Sapp did. They were both in their 1st year of eligibility. I thought Sapp was deserving, but not over Strahan.

        • pipeman

          as Giant fans we loved Michael, but if I had to pick one guy, Sapp was a little better

        • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

          Sapp was the better player by far. Strahan will get in next year.

          • WhittakerWalt

            Let’s hope Sapp gives us another lecture about slavery when he gets inducted.

          • Pat D

            Strahan had more sacks, more tackles, more forced fumbles, more fumble recoveries, even more return touchdowns. They went to the same number of Pro Bowls, made the same number of All Pro Teams and both won Defensive Player of the Year.

            I fail to see how Sapp would be better “by far.”

            • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

              Sapp was a defensive tackle so of course his stats arent as impressive. Try looking up how many tackles had as Many sacks as Sapp not to mention he was also far superior against the run to Strahan who often sold out against the run trying to get the QB.

              Strahan will get in. Guys like Kevin Greene( who has more sacks than Strahan) isn’t in and guys like Richard Dent and Chris Doleman had to wait for years and years before they made it. The only thing Strahan had on those guys is more publicity playing in NY.

              • Pat D

                I know Strahan will get in. There’s about 5 or 6 other DT’s who had more sacks than Sapp, only one of whom is, or will get into, the HOF. Sapp should be superior against the run compared to Strahan, being that Sapp was a tackle and Strahan an end. But Strahan could play the run pretty well. He wasn’t just as a pass rusher, as guys like Kevin Greene (who was a hybrid player anyway) and Jared Allen were and are.

                • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

                  I just looked up the all time sack leaders and the only DT I saw with more sacks that Sapp was John Randle and he’s already in though I don’t believe sacks became officially tracked until 1980

                  • Pat D

                    Yea, my bad. I’m an idiot for not checking. I thought that Jim Jeffcoat, William Fuller, Dexter Manley, Clyde Simmons and Neil Smith were tackles, for some reason.

                    Like I said, I felt Sapp was deserving, but it seems like they’re going back and forth between ends and tackles, and it was the time to pick a tackle.

                    • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

                      There were lots of great players deserving of the HOF this year and most years, Strahan included.

                      To me, the only no brainer was Larry Allen who may have been the best guard in NFL history and was an 11 time Pro bowler, made it at every position along the Oline except center and was on the All Decade team for the 90s and 2000s.

                    • Pat D

                      Yea, you could make a good case for everyone on the finalist list this year. I have a feeling that most all of them will eventually get in.

  • Jimmy

    Good thing they practiced throwing the pitchers’ glove in Spring Training that year. Love how he threw it the right distance to Tino and Tino caught it like they had done it a thousand times.

  • Dropped Third

    Really like the pronk signing, lowish risk, really high reward. If he can stay healthy (and i know it’s a VERY big if) and get maybe 300 AB’s, he could very well hit around .265/.375/.500 in YS2. Let him hit 5th or 6th and protect the big guys in the middle. He can take a walk and doesn’t strike out a lot either. With healthy years from him, Youk, and Gardner this offense could be better then last years with Russ and Swish. All really depends on how healthy the all the old guys can stay and there’s lots of them.

    • MannyGeee

      $4M in incentives is just crazy though. This will be the season where he gets 210PAs, earns all his incentives and dupes someone into giving him a multi year contract next season when the wheels fall off…

      #kindalikeIchiro!

      Shit I hope not.

      • Barry

        In the grand scheme of things it’s nothing. His incentives all reward him for being healthy.

        #overreaction

        • MannyGeee

          oh, i completely agree. and a healthy Ponk hitting moonshots over the 2nd deck in RF for 200 PAs is TOTALLY worth $6M… hell, double that. Lets just hope we don’t see a repeat perfomance next season for GUARANTEED money.

          Hafner is a scratch ticket, if you win and get your dollar back, then good for you. your gamble paid off. But don’t go back to the conter and buy 3 more, because you won’t leave rich.

          • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

            Yeah, who gives a crap how much they pay Pronk this year. At his age and with his injury history and the fact he can only DH, I think he’s likely seen his last multi year deal.

            • Barry

              At this point it’s one of the better deals on the team.

  • Sleepy Brandon

    Awesome picture, Mike! I was at that game, first base side box seats. Awesome play to watch, especially as a 10 year old!

  • Jacob The OG (formerly Jacob)

    Loved the Mark Teixeira piece! Tex is a great guy and people should really stop complaining about the fact he is only hitting .250, like seriously who gives a shit when he is a lock for 30+ and 100+ each year? And like he said everyone is overpaid and I believe that Mark has been well worth the money because he is a good player and all around great guy.

    • jjyank

      I don’t really get the people that were “annoyed” with his statements there. It’s not like he said he wouldn’t try to be the best he can be, but he’s acknowledging that he’s not who he used to be and admitted that he’s overpaid. The only things I take away from that is that Tex is honest, classy, and easy to root for.

      These are things we already knew (that he’s overpaid and unlikely to repeat his ~28 year old performances). Why is anyone annoyed?

      • Jacob The OG (formerly Jacob)

        Exactly! And I also get a gut feeling that Tex is going to have a great year now because he is just going to go out and play, not try to go the other way or try to get measly base hits, but go out there and drive in runs for us. Tex is a great guy and people should really stop being so down on him, and the rest of the team for that matter.

        • jjyank

          I’m optimistic as well, but more so for health reasons than his apparent new attitude. There are always health concerns, for sure, but it’s unlikely Tex deals with that cough issue again, for example. He hit pretty well in between the cough and the calf injury, so if he can stay healthy, I am confident he can continue to be a middle of the order bat for us.

          • Jacob The OG (formerly Jacob)

            Yes this too, more so than the attitude

          • Barry

            Tex has rarely been a health concern.

            • jjyank

              ? He has been recently.

              • Barry

                One season isn’t enough to deduce a trend in health.

    • forensic

      To each their own on the article, but how is he a lock to reach two numbers that he didn’t even reach last year?

      • Barry

        He reached 24 and 88 last year in 123 games. That’s well within the pace range for 30 and 100. If he could learn to beat the shift by shooting one the other way then he would probably push that BA up well past 250 as well but Tex digresses.

        • forensic

          Being on pace to do something and actually being healthy and good enough for long enough to do something are two different things.

          • Barry

            Unless you know something everyone else doesn’t, there is no indication that he won’t be healthy this year. Being on pace shows that he was still at the same level of production last year despite his minor injuries and missed playing time. It would be safer to assume that he will reach those baselines than it would be to assume he doesn’t.

            • forensic

              He has 16 entries of various sorts of injuries and ailments over just the last 3 years, including hitting the DL in 2 of those 3 years. Most of them are minor things, but as you age those minor things become more serious and require more time to sufficiently recover from them.

              • Barry

                156, 158, 156, 123. GP since he bacame a Yankee. Mark Teixeira is the least of the Yankees health concerns. Mark is going to be 33, not 37. There is no reason to assume that he won’t be fine this year. His injuries were not so serious that you have to wonder if he’ll recover his longevity.

  • Iron Horse

    Two gripes: how do these BBWA maroons leave Bernie Williams off their ballots while “punishing” The Rocket, Bagwell ect and end his eligibility for election to the H of F after just two years? Am I the only Yankees fan and baseball fans that finds this an outrageous injustice to not only one of the best players of his era, but one of the truly genuine human beings to play professional sports in a long time? I am sorry, fans, but a H of F with a Puckett and a Sutton enshrined is at least is obligated to give Williams a legitimate chance! This is just a travesty, and is just one more example of why the voting has to be taken away from these senile, ignorant and opinionated people whose profession has been rendered an anachronism.
    Second gripe: what is wrong with Alex Rodriguez? As with Roger Clemens, I will believe he is telling the truth until the facts show otherwise. But Rodriguez drives me crazy! He will never rival Jeter or Bernie or Paulie as a fan favorite, but I’ve watched this guy play since ’04, and I can honestly say he has always given his best effort on the field, has never dogged it, has played hurt without complaining, has played hurt when he shouldn’t have, has played a superior 3rd base after being a shortstop all of his career…his 2009 post season was one of the best I’ve seen among the championship teams I’ve seen since 1976. If these allegations are true, they would prove him to be one of the dumbest players of all time.
    He’s going to purchase and use banned PED’s just miles from his home from an outfit that keeps paper records of every transaction, has this guy come to his house to shoot him full o HGH who has been linked to Melky Cabrerra, and has allowed himself to be seen frequenting this store?
    We know he is arrogant, as so many athletes are these days, but he’d be so arrogant as to believe he could get away with this? That he would completely jeopardize his career as a Yankee, his career as one of the most athletically gifted players to grace a baseball field, his monumental lifetime achievements, for HGH? And do this over a period of time during which we have seen his skill level decline, as it physically should driven his age, thereby rendering the use of PED’s completely worthless?
    It just doesn’t make any sense! I have no way of knowing if these allegations are true, and I will not judge the guy until we have been given the cold hard facts froM MLB, but A-Rod just so does not get it. He is just so clueless away from the field it is frightening!
    Compare this to Tex’s brief interview with the WSJ this morning. You have to love a guy that says flat out he is overpaid and nothing he does can justify his salary, admits that his age has contributed to his BA decline, and talks about what he wants to accomplish this year for his team.
    Can’t you just see the loathed Kevin Youklilis becoming an instant fan favorite just to spite A-Rod, hear the fans at the Stadium hollering “Youk” every time A-Rod comes to bat, assuming he come back this year?
    At the rate this is going A-Rod is going to be the punch line to a very bad and sad Yankee joke.
    I miss BERNIE!

    • Pat D

      Bernie just isn’t worthy of the HOF.

      And to save you the time and effort, neither are Posada nor Pettitte.

      • Gordon m

        One player had a slash line of .297 .381 .477 and an OPS+ of 125 and another had .295 .371 .444 and an OPS+ 116. One is in the HOF and the other isn’t, I’ll let you guess which is which.

        • Pat D

          You’re comparing Bernie to Barry Larkin?

          http://www.priceisrightlosinghorn.com/

          • Gordon m

            I’m British, so that reference is lost on me. My point still stands. Williams had better career numbers than Larkin.

            • Pat D

              Well, it’s a losing horn, so that shouldn’t be hard to figure out.

              When you consider players for the Hall of Fame, you don’t do it across positions. Especially between an outfielder and a shortstop. You compare outfielders to outfielders and shortstops to shortstops.

              • Gordon m

                Yeah, I’m well aware that the HOF voters tend to go position by position, but Bernie not even getting enough votes this year to be considered for further years seems a wee bit unfair. He was according to WAR one of the top 25 CF of all-time. I’m not here to argue. I’ve been reading this page for the past four years and decided to comment for once. Sorry if I came across the wrong way.

                • Pat D

                  No, you didn’t come across the wrong way. I’m being a dick. But I’ve looked at the entire history of voting trends enough to pretty much know the way that HOF voters think and tend to vote. Also, it’s just not fair to compare guys across positions because of different offensive expectations.

                  I agree it’s not cool that Bernie dropped off, but at least he got two years. Kenny Lofton didn’t even get that. Guys like Albert Belle and Dwight Evans only had two years on the ballot. Bernie is a Hall of Very Good guy. If Bernie had had a few more peak years and declined at the same rate he had, he’d probably have about 2600-2700 hits and around 330-350 home runs. He’d have a much better shot then.

                  • Barry

                    http://www.baseball-reference......s_CF.shtml

                    Compare him to players who shared his position then.

                    • Pat D

                      I know where he stacks up at his position. All that chart does is confirm that he’s not HOF worthy.

                    • Barry

                      I’m just trying to give you a better way to explain yourself then saying that you are attuned to the minds of voters, which you probably aren’t. I don’t really have a position as to whether or not he should be in the HoF. Frankly, I don’t care. The HoF is as about as useful as Iran’s new stealth fighter.

                      Yes that link affirms your thought process but Bernie Williams was as good as any CF of his time.

                    • Pat D

                      I know the voting trends and patterns. Saying that I know the minds of voters is inaccurate, a mistake and also not exactly what I said.

                    • Barry

                      ” enough to pretty much know the way that HOF voters think”

                    • Pat D

                      Yea, I was saying I misspoke in saying that, while also saying it wasn’t what I really meant.

                    • Iron Horse

                      That is my point exactly! Name the CF’s better than Bernie,? Kenny Lofton? No disrespect intended, but Kenny Lofton is the perfect example of good not great. Albert Belle and Dwight Evans? You don’t think Bernie is better candidate than either of those two players?
                      Again, no disrespect intended, but please don’t give me all those Bill James’ numbers and tell me Bernie’s not as good. I saw Evans, Belle nd Bernie play, and based on what I saw, Bernie was/is the better player. And my beef isn’t that he isn’t going to make it, my beef is he is already off the ballot. I love Mattingly, but he is not H of F worthy either, but he’s still on the ballot.

                    • Pat D

                      An argument of Lofton vs. Bernie comes down to what you value more. Lofton was a superior defender and base runner/stealer. Bernie had more pop. They were pretty equal in average and OBP, though Bernie took more walks. It’s kind of a draw.

                      I think Bernie was better all around than Albert Belle, but Albert Belle is at least a guy who was worthy of that ridiculous “most feared hitter” label for a while. Dwight Evans is a much better HOF candidate than Bernie. He was better at everything except hitting for average, but he also played in the non-steriods era.

                      I didn’t think Bernie would drop off the ballot either. I thought he’d hang around the way that Dale Murphy and Don Mattingly have. He was a victim of the crowded ballot and 10-vote limit more than anything I think.

      • Improbable Island’s Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR)

        Really? Not Posada?

        • Barry

          I think Posada gets hurt a little bit because his career started at 27. Other than that he was a pretty good hitting C, some years that could stand up there with the best offensive seasons of any C in history. I won’t get into fielding because it’s too subjective and there isn’t a reliable system to rate C defensively.

        • Pat D

          No chance. Not high enough on the counting stats, and 3rd best catcher of his era.

          • Improbable Island’s Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR)

            3rd best catcher of his era is actually outstanding.

            • Pat D

              Not for HOF it isn’t.

      • trr

        I am a huge fan of all 3, but Pat is correct…the team can honor them anytime by retiring their numbers…

        • Pat D

          Which I’m sure they will some day.

          Imagine, they could have a mass ceremony one day where they retire 2, 6, 20, 42, 46 and 51.

    • jjyank

      I’m sorry, but…paragraphs? Please? I can’t and won’t read big blocks of text like this.

      • Barry

        wah wah wah

        • Pat D

          Thanks for keeping us informed of what you’re doing right now.

        • jjyank

          Would prefer more paragraphes or more model girlfriends?

          • Pat D

            He can haz more cheezburger?

          • Barry

            wah wah.. wah wah wah.. wah

            You’re bitching at someone for how they write. Who cares? Maybe that’s as good a job as they can do. Go back to being a bottom level pawn.

            • Pat D

              Pot meet kettle, eh?

              • Barry

                More like tomato meet potato.

                • Jimmy

                  Lastwordosis. Terminal case.

                  • Pat D

                    Sounds about right. We’ll know for sure if he responds to this.

            • jjyank

              Uhhh…If he doesn’t know what paragraphs are…then, I dunno…the human species is doomed?

              • Pat D

                Can’t be any worse than those people who don’t know what vowels are.

                • jjyank

                  Or what Barry is.

                  • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

                    You mean a Green beret who bangs models?

                  • Barry

                    So what am I big man?

                    • jjyank

                      Funny that you call me “big man” after the way you’ve acted the last few days.

                    • Barry

                      Ha, the way I’ve acted.. What, I think Jeter is a little grimy for dating a girl 16 years younger than him, how terrible!!

                    • jjyank

                      Yes, that’s the only thing.

                      *rolls eyes*

                      Goodnight, Barry.

                    • Barry

                      Whatever dude explain how next time.

                      Goodnight lil jj.

                    • Pat D

                      You’ll get no explanation and like it!

                    • jjyank

                      If you need me to explain anything, you don’t deserve the time.

                    • mustang

                      jjyank you’re just jealous that Barry dates older model types that are in Jeter’s girlfriend range.

                      We can all learn from Barry’s new book “How to pick up models and boast about it on baseball blogs”

                      Can’t wait for Barry to sign my copy.

                    • Now Batting

                      Bernie doesn’t belong in the ball of fame. What gripes me is Schilling getting so many votes based off postseason performance and Bernie can’t crack 5%.

  • Chris A

    I’s been said a thousand times, but those late nineties teams were something special.

  • ricoparadise

    My browser DOES SO support I frames!

  • MannyGeee

    Because of that link above, last night became a violent downward spiral of watching Bill Murray Youtube clips…

    Thanks for that Mike

  • Iron Horse

    I apologize for not using paragraphs! I always think that space is more important than style, so I didn’t utilize paragraphs to break up my thoughts.
    I’m sorry if that made my post off-putting, that was not my intention.
    I’ll just say again that a player of Bernie’s calibre deserves more than two shots at the H of F. And in my opinion, Kirby Puckett was not a H of F worthy player. A great player? Yes. A Hall of of Fame player, no way.
    I agree Posada is not a H of F worthy player either. Pettite on the other hand could be borderline.
    Let’s see if those numb-nut writers vote Mussina in. Don Sutton is enshrined for one reason, he won over 300 games. And pitched and pitched until he won the games; imho, that doesn’t make him an all-time great.
    I think Mussina was a much better pitcher, and he could have done exactly what Sutton did.
    But Mike did the Hall of Fame thing: he retired after his best season, and is allowing his record to speak for itself.
    If you’ve read this far, thanks.
    And I am glad to see at least I got some intelligent feedback; thanks for that too.

    • Jimmy

      You’re falling into the “If X is in Y should be in” comparison argument. Guys like Jim Rice, Don Sutton, Bill Mazeroski, Kirby Pucket and even, God Bless him, Phil Rizzuto are all marginal guys who probably don’t belong but were voted in for sentimental reasons or just bad judgement. If you carry out the comparison argument to the extreme, about half of all players have some case for the hall.

      You really seem to be interested in this stuff. If you haven’t read any of Bill James’ material on the Hall of Fame, it is pretty interesting reading.

      Finally, your handle would imply that you’re in the Armored branch, correct?

      • Pat D

        The difference with the guys you mentioned is that Rice, Sutton and Puckett were inducted by the BBWAA, who are not responsible for most of the worst selections. Maz and Rizzuto are definitely borderline. Maz got in because of his home run and his defensive prowess. He’s the only member of the HOF with a sub-.300 OBP.

        For Rizzuto, I’d like to think he’d be less borderline if he hadn’t missed 3 prime years due to the war. He’d at least have over 1000 runs and 2000 hits. I think the influence of Ted Williams also helped Rizzuto get elected by the Vets’ Committee, because Williams always insisted that Rizzuto was the difference between the Yankees and the Red Sox winning in those years.

    • forensic

      I didn’t bother replying to your first comment because I didn’t bother trying to read it with the ‘style’ issues. I’m far from the grammar police, but that’s going to happen when your comment takes up a whole screen shot (with my settings at least) in basically one big block.

      Bernie’s in between for me, but I totally agree Puckett was a pitiful, sympathy choice. Of course, then he was identified as a wife beater and everyone was wondering if they could go back in time again, as his numbers really didn’t deserve it.

      How many more years will it take for everyone to spell ‘Pettitte’ correctly? I know I said I’m not the grammar police (I know spelling isn’t grammar, but anyway) and this isn’t directed just at you as typo’s happen, but people constantly do that and it just baffles me.

      • jjyank

        Hah, yeah, the spelling of Pettitte is a pet peeve of mine as well. He’s only the best starting pitcher the team has produced in like, over two decades. Fans should be able to spell it.

        As forensic said, not directed entirely at the original poster. I’m speaking generally here, I see it far more often than I should.

      • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

        If the truth about Puckett would have come out earlier, no way he makes the hall IMO.

        I’m surprised that stuff stayed out of the news for so long but I guess the Minnesota press must have looked the other way since he was their icon.

    • Manny’s BanWagon (formerly Andy Pettitte’s Fibula)

      I’m pretty much done worrying about the HOF after the abomination those guys pulled this year. Even before this happened, they had their share of undeserving players like Puckett and Rice.

      IMO, Bernie falls short though he should have lasted more than a few years on the ballot. Posada is close but ultimately falls short too. Mussina should be a no brainer and Pettitte should also get in though who knows how long he’ll have to pay back his debt in purgatory for using HgH.

      • jjyank

        Agreed. Bernie is still my favorite player of all time, and I still have a tattered old poster of his in my closet. Hell I even modelled my batting stance from him in little league. I love the guy, but I don’t think he’s quite HOF caliber. I’ve always been a “small Hall” sort of guy.

    • Pat D

      Mussina definitely deserves induction and he was better than Don Sutton. But like Jimmy said, the worst thing you can do regarding the HOF is to say Player X is better than HOF Player Y when Player Y is one of the worst HOF members. Which isn’t to say Sutton is the worst pitcher in the HOF, but he’s in the lower half.

      Kirby Puckett got in the HOF for two reasons: everyone was sorry for how his career was over so suddenly and he was very popular. Most people assumed he’d get 3000 hits. He fell about 700 short. He needed 4 more years, which I’m sure he would have had. Then, of course, all the stuff with his domestic issues came out after his induction. If that was known before his induction, he wouldn’t be in.

  • moose14

    moose here, 2nd time long time… Where can I find a list of players options? I’ve found some team’s lists, but not the 2013 Yanks… thanks