Fan Confidence Poll: March 25th, 2013


Spring Training Record: 12-17 (120 RS, 140 RA)
Spring Training Schedule This Week: Mon. OFF, vs. Astros (Tues. on YES), @ Orioles (Weds. on only), vs. Pirates (Thurs.), @ Nationals in Nationals Park (Fri. on YES), @ Army in West Point (Sat. on YES), Sun. OFF

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Please take a second to answer the poll below and give us an idea of how confident you are in the team. You can view the interactive Fan Confidence Graph anytime via the nav bar above, or by clicking here. Thanks in advance for voting.

Given the team's current roster construction, farm system, management, etc., how confident are you in the Yankees' overall future?
View Results
Categories : Polls


  1. JW says:

    So down about the Wells deal. Makes no sense on any level. So many questions: why not have spent the money on Martin? why not other guys who were available over the winter? Why, at this point, on an outfielder?

    It strikes me as a total panic move, and unlike Cashman. Reminds me of, say, trading for Raul Mondesi. If Cash is behind this one, I really shudder. And if not, then who’s really steering the ship — Levine?

    It’s the kind of move that really does make you wonder about what direction the org is headed. More troublesome than the injuries, more so than the $189 mandate.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Mondesi is pretty much what I go back to here. We all lived.

      I think it’s a silly, silly move, and one that lacks of Cashman’s steady hand, but I also intend on not making this any bigger than it needs to be.

      • I'm not the droids you're looking for... says:

        Voice of reason, BUT while we all lived through Raul Mondesi, precisely *what* we lived through was extremely painful. Here’s my concern…

        -This is either a Levine/Hank/Hal move, in which case, gulp
        -This is a Cashman move, in which case, gulp

        The only way this doesn’t make me lose a great deal of confidence in the organization is if it turns out that we are paying almost 100% of the Wells money in 2013 such that the hit for luxury tax in 2014 is minimal (or perhaps even negative ie a benefit). And even then the deal reeks of desperation and disarray, not a good sign no matter the details of the deal.

        • Robinson Tilapia says:

          This got buried in the 340 “I M NO LONGER A FANZ” bullshit, but I actually think this is Cashman. Maybe it’s the crutches and painkillers.

          I just don’t see Levine or Hal getting involved on a fourth outfielder to the extent that they’re driving the ship on it solely.

          It does scream incredibly myopic and tunnel-visioned, which are never terms I use for Brian Cashman. Perhaps, in a vacuum, “Wells > Francisco,” and they don’t mind paying out 13 MILLION dollars if there’s actually no 2014 downfall (still debatable), but there’s just more to be considered than that. Vernon Wells is not 13 million times better than options that are already present. There were also better players, who would have come cheaper, this team could have passed on.

          Yeah, the Mondesi era sucked, but it ended and we’ve actually won championships since. The earth beneath the stadium did not actually dry up, although the stadium did demolish to the ground.

          OH SHIT.

      • Joe D. says:

        “Mondesi is pretty much what I go back to here. We all lived.”

        31-year-old Mondesi in full seasons leading up to acquiring him by wRC leading up to acquiring him:
        2000: 108
        2001: 106
        (He was, to be fair, in the midst of a poor season as we acquired him.)

        Compare to:

        Vernon Wells wRC
        2011: 79
        2012: 88

        262 batters have at least 600 PA over the last two seasons. By wRC, Vernon Wells ranks 227th, just behind Ronny Cedeno, Adam Kennedy, and Rod Barajas.

        Changing the method of comparison to WAR, Vernon is able to climb all the way to 221st out of 262, just behind Willie Bloomquist and Marlon Byrd.

        But Vernon might get screwed on that because he didn’t get many ABs last season and WAR is a counting stat. Plus, Vernon is known for his slugging, so let’s focus on hitting, by checking out wOBA. By wOBA, out of those same 262 dudes (min 600 PA) over the last two seasons, Vernon ranks 240th, just behind Alex Gonzalez, but thankfully ahead of Rajai Davis.

        Raul Mondesi was an above-league-average bat and average-ish outfielder when the Yankees acquired him. Vernon Wells is nowhere near. I wish this was a Mondesi-caliber bat we were getting…it would be a massive improvement over the actual acquisition.

    • I think they received some $ from the WBC for Teix’s injury so it might cover most of this years salary. Although Mike wrote that AAV doesn’t exist on money taken on newly acquired players, Fienstad was tweeting late last night that AAV actually does count. If they even spend one penny on Wells in 2014 this is just goes from a terrible acquisition to an absolute disaster.

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        That’s all fine and dandy. Just because you have extra money, though, it doesn’t mean you can just irresponsibly waste it.

        I try to pretend this is all play money. Sitting with the reality of that much money makes me feel like we’ve completely lost as humanity.

        • Yeah there is no justification of spending it. They only got 9 million from the WBC so they are still paying $5 million of their own money. How much did Schierholtz get? Chavez? Anyone? Certainly they could have spent $5 million better than Vernon Wells, even Hoch the homeiest of homer writers wrote that this move isn’t a good one.

          • Cris Pengiucci says:

            While I get your point, the examples of players the Yankees “could” have had doesn’t match up. Shierholtz and Chavez both chose not to join the Yankees for various reasons, not necessarily the money. Schierholtz for perceived playing time, Chavez for closeness to home.

    • Count Zero says:

      First ever 5. The sheer stupidity of the Wells trade — even assuming they gave up no prospect of any value — has shaken all confidence I had in the FO.

  2. kenthadley says:

    Looks like they are in a panic mode and directionless. Plugging holes to sell tickets and tv time. Maybe if the minor leagues rebound this year there will be better days next year. But Cashman is doing it with smoke and mirrors right now.

  3. MannyGeee says:

    I see 338 comments in the Vernon Wells thread that read (paraphrasing):

    Dear Mr Cashman:
    Please kill yourself.
    - Baseball guys smarter than you at RAB….

    I should be lower considering the Wells trade is the beginning of the apocalypse, but I shudder to say I am staying at the baseline 7. I really like the Wang signing, if that helps justify it.

    • I'm not the droids you're looking for... says:

      Not much IMO.

      I think until we hear definitively that we are only paying Wells $1-2mm in 2014 such that the lux tax hit is minimal or negative (ie a positive) I have to reserve judgement. If the hit in ’14 is $3-4mm or (gasp) $6.5mm then I’m like a 4. Maybe.

    • Steve says:

      Clearly you didn’t read closely enough. It’s more like “This is a bad move, it couldn’t possibly be the Cash Ninja!” Randy Levine or Hal Steinbrenner please kill yourself

      • Manny's BanWagon says:

        Yeah. It’s pretty funny how many automatically assume it couldn’t possibly be Cashman making such a desperation move on a pretty worthless player for not much less money than it would have cost to bring back Martin.

        • Jim Is Bored says:

          I rarely root for a player to fail, but this post-Yankee Russel Martin love that has just spiraled completely out of control this off-season is making me hope he’s worth -WAR this season.

          And you can’t compare the situations. When we let Martin go we still had a healthy Granderson/Teixeira. Things changed.

          • Manny's BanWagon says:

            Not signing Martin for a very reasonable short term contract when all you have is Cervelli and Stewart was a bad move in the eyes of many. Money was the reason we were given for not resigning him which now looks comical giving $13 million to Wells. Martin was worth 5.2 WAR the last 2 years so he did a pretty good job overall.

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        And, surely, someone will claim I said just that at some point.

    • jjyank says:

      I voted the same. I think trading for Wells is a waste, but I’m not altering what I’ve been voting all along based on a 4th OF. The money sucks, especially if it does impact 2014, but let’s not overblow Wells’ role on the team.

  4. jsbrendog says:

    so do we know who is going to LA yet?

  5. Chuck M. says:

    Dropped down to a 4. Don’t understand the Vernon Wells signing – why not get Michael Young and Yuni Betancourt as well? Last year was the least interesting year of games in the past decade, and this year looks to be less interesting. I hate to be negative, but Vernon Wells? C’mon.

    Other than the fact that he can’t run, throw, hit, or catch, he’s great.

  6. Cross777 says:

    Why the love for Martin JW? He hit .211 last year and is posting a scorching .100 this spring. – bye bye. (Cervelli is .188 and Stewart is .225 this spring)

    Stewart and Cervelli should be able to hit .211 – power will be down from 21 but Cervelli at least seems to have improved his throwing and defense.

  7. The Fallen Phoenix says:

    Vernon Wells seriously makes me want to vote a 1.

  8. Yankee Fan 1 says:

    Down from a 7 to a 6. I think the Jeter DL trip ( not that it was a total shock) and the Wells deal did it for me. Nevertheless, I am still excited for opening day.

  9. Robinson Tilapia says:

    I’m sure that, even after 340 comments, there’s still enough piss and vinegar left for this thread, as well as the probablebuttheresstilltime “Yankees Acquire Vernon Wells” thread.

    Yes, epically dumb, even not knowing who’s going to LA and assuming it’s a bag of dicks/Qualls. Should the acquisition of a grossly overpaid fourth outfielder shake my confidence THAT much, though? I don’t particularly think so, although if my baseline “6″ is a rounded up, rather than rounded down “6″, at the moment, it does indicate something. The New York Yankees being on the hook for even a penny of this guy’s contract doesn’t sit well with me, especially after we heard so much about having so much fiscal restraint that we couldn’t afford Eric Chavez or Nate Schierholz. There’s no amount of “but they have this WBC insurance money now….” that can excuse that.

    So “6.”

    Also know that I either accidentally or purposefully hit “10″ above. Fuck y’all bitches.

    • mitch says:

      I agree. The move is obviously a huge overpay, but it doesn’t cost anything but money. I can deal with that type of panic move. Imagine the reaction if they had traded Tyler Austin for Jason Kubel or something like that?

      I voted 6 because there isn’t a whole lot of cohesion in any of the recent roster decisions, and it’s just hard to get a grip on what the plan is for 2014 and beyond.

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        It’s almost the opposite for me. Most of what brings my vote now is what I see currently. As long as they’re staying the course with the guys in the minors and creating space to actually bring in longer-term pieces after all this celery cap bullshit is said and done, I’m bullish on the later end. I also think that, long-term, not being bullish about the New York Yankees is silly. They always find their way.

        I also just want to know, at this point, who’s leaving, in order to both cut the “SLADE HEATHCOTT IS BEING TRADED” crap at the knees and stop me from eventually experiencing Stockholm Syndrome as to the possibility.

        • mitch says:

          Long term i’m not that worried. I do get the feeling they’re making a concerted effort to build through the farm.

          I’m just confused about what the plan is specifically for next year. If they scrap the 189 thing they’ll obviously be fine. If they can’t resign someone like Phil Hughes because they’ve committed too much to Ichiro and Vernon Wells, then i’ll be a little worried.

    • Jim Is Bored says:

      I understand that I’m oversimplifying here, but the same people who bitch and moan that the concession, merchandise, and ticket prices are too high and that the Yankees have infinite billion dollars so they shouldn’t be worrying about $189 million should probably be encouraged by desperate moves that ignore the perceived financial goals.

      Not to say that it’s a good move or anything, I’m not on board the Vernon Wells train, and I hope he fails the physical and the deal doesn’t happen. And I understand the financially irresponsible nature of this trade. But as far as its direct impact on our team this year? I don’t know, I can’t get that upset. I just can’t. Opening day is right around the corner, baseball is basically back, and I’m excited to root for WS#28. A few stupid moves aren’t going to dampen that.

      I think we really, really need this season to start.

      • jjyank says:

        “But as far as its direct impact on our team this year? I don’t know, I can’t get that upset. I just can’t. Opening day is right around the corner, baseball is basically back, and I’m excited to root for WS#28. A few stupid moves aren’t going to dampen that.”

        This times infinity. The Yankees acquired a 4th OF/platoon guy. Yes, it is a huge overpay in terms of dollars, but as I said above somewhere, let’s not make this out to be more than it is. A silly move for an extra OF doesn’t change my perception of the team.

        • Jim Is Bored says:

          Well that’s the thing, it CAN change your perception of the front office. But I think some people are letting it color that perception way, way, way too much.

          Sure I think it reeks of desperation, and it’s definitely not a smart move, and it does concern me a bit that they would make a move like this. But that doesn’t outweigh how excited I am for baseball season, and I’m still able to see our top 10 pitching staff, top 10 minor league system, and that once summer hits we should have most of our bats back in the lineup.

          • jjyank says:

            I sure as hell wouldn’t have made the trade myself, and it does seem a bit desperate. It’s a huge overpay for a role-player, but it doesn’t bother me that much. If they run Wells out there for 500 PA and he still sucks, that’s a different story.

    • I'm not the droids you're looking for... says:

      I responded along these lines in the other thread but to sum up here…my issue is that this is either a Levine/Steinb move, or a Cash move. Either way it’s a terrible fucking sign. The former that Cash doesn’t have control of the organization, the latter that he doesn’t have control of his senses.

      • Jim Is Bored says:

        Or that they’re dealing with a shit ton of injuries and are making a move that they wouldn’t make 99 springs out of 100, because this has just been such a terribly unlucky spring.

        It’s not the best sign of how they react under pressure, but I’d be much more concerned if they were making moves like this when we had a completely healthy roster. And we just haven’t done that in recent years.

    • Cris Pengiucci says:

      Come on RT. You should know that your comment “especially after we heard so much about having so much fiscal restraint that we couldn’t afford Eric Chavez or Nate Schierholz.” isn’t entirely factual. It’s a 2-way street and these guys chose their new homes based on factors beyone money (Schierholtz – playing time, Chavez -closeness to home). I would have loved to have had both of them as well, but it’s not a one-way street. The players need to want to come to the Yankees as well.

  10. mac says:

    Still at 5, they are trying to improve the team. I just hope Hal realizes he made a huge mistake by conserving on the bench and downgrading at C and RF. This is why he now has to squander all that $ on Wells, half the money would have brought Chavez and Schierholtz. Hal got caught being pennywise.

    The big issue for me is the farm, there are no impact guys that will help this year and possibly next. If the farm takes another step back this year they need to gut the player development personnel and start over.

    • MannyGeee says:

      See: The above post. Schierholtz made a decision based on playing time and Chavez wanted to play closer to home. Nothing the FO could do there, so deal with it.

      All the Yankees can do is hope that if they make an offer, the guy will want to play for them. Those times it didn’t pan out.

  11. FachoinaNYY says:

    Just a thought, and admittedly trying to find a silver lining with the Wells trade… but could this be at all a signal that the budget plan is going out the window?

    • mac says:

      I was hoping the same. I think it is a good sign that Hal ok’d wasting 13 mil. They have to know if the team isn’t competitive they will lose more in revenues from all sources than the lux tax savings beings in.

  12. Robinson Tilapia says:

    Not if they’re trying to do this “pay him $13 million NOW” thing, and if it actually can happen.

    • mac says:

      Getting Wells is (probably) better than “Wilpon-ing” (talking up/hyping up) Mesa or some other never will be. I’d also like to think someone sees something rejuvenated in Wells, that makes him deserve the roster spot over Mesa, et al.

    • MannyGeee says:

      According to everything I read, you can decide how to spread out the monies received as part of a trade in any way they wish.

      So with that in mind, this is a move to get your “25th guy” a year early and do it for $0, essentially.

  13. Also I went went from a 6 to a 5, if it turns out that NY is paying Wells anything in 2014 the it will go from a 5 to a 1.

  14. Matt DiBari says:


    I’m sorry an organization that would trade for Vernon Wells, let alone pay him 13 million dollars, gets a vote of no confidence from me. They have no idea what they’re doing.

    • Jim Is Bored says:

      If we’re going to be irrational here, I’m going to vote a 10. Together, we’re a 5, and much more realistic.

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        I did vote a ten. I should just go to every PC in this office and vote a ten on it for each time someone votes a one.

      • TomH says:

        His vote is not necessarily “irrational.” It may be like a “no confidence vote” in a parliamentary system. I.e., it means only that the legislature has lost confidence in this government. It doesn’t need to mean that the members think every bill put forward by the government must be wrong (some will merely be trivially OK). It does, usually, mean that on major issues the legislature now thinks another government is preferable when it comes to making important decisions.

        Although I did not vote 1, I’m getting to the point–every time I see him interviewed–of doubting the qualifications of Hal S. to lead a great franchise like the Yankees. I consider him to be the reason the Yankees failed to strengthen the team during the winter, leaving themselves open, thereby, to the current Spring Catastrophe.

        • Robinson Tilapia says:

          I’m fine with the parliamentary votes. It’s the same reason I clicked on “ten.”

          A bunch of 10′s in response to a bunch of 1′s, with the truth somewhere down the middle.

          Yup, WE are Congress.

        • Jim Is Bored says:

          Nope, his reasoning was irrational. Sorry.

      • Jim Is Bored says:


        We have a top 10 farm system. We have what should be a good pitching staff. We have a few high ceiling prospects who, without a severe dose of injuries and/or bad luck should be in the majors in 1-2 years.

        One overreaction to a disastrous injury filled spring should not shake your confidence that badly. If you want to root for a fiscally responsible team with a low budget and a focus on young, cheap talent, you’re on the wrong team.

        • Ethan says:

          Top 10 is a little generous. Almost everyone says the farm system is somewhere in around 15. That’s not top 10. Pitching staff is good but still has some question marks. Offense is looking very bad at this point, at least for the first month or two. And Tex’s injury is very concerning, as is Jeter’s.

          • Jim Is Bored says:

            Fine, and that’s a 1 to some people? No. My opinion is around a 5, which I think is fair.

            I don’t know how many times I can say this, but my voting a 10 is simply to counter the 1′s. I think they’re equivalently irrational.

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        Come on now. It’s perfectly acceptable to be upset, but to seriously vote a “1″ as anything other than a protest vote?

        • jjyank says:

          Seriously. A 1 is insane.

        • Matt DiBari says:

          What about this off season should give me any confidence in anyone making decisions for this team? We don’t have a catcher, for the sake of being fiscally responsible. We chased away the right fielder for the sake of being fiscally responsible. We made absolutely no effort to improve (or even maintain) the bench so we could be fiscally responsible. 2014 promises to be more of the same.

          And even then I was still at a 7 because I had some confidence that we would be able to get Hal to pry open the checkbook to get a necessary piece when we needed it.

          And then we turn around and out of nowhere, for absolutely no reason, flush 13 million dollars away? There’s no cohesive plan. There’s no guiding force. Its completely random moves and non moves based on, I don’t know, maybe Hal spins a giant wheel in his office.

          I’m not going to quit the team. I’m still going to as many games as I can this year and every year going forward. But for the first time in a looooooooooooong time, I now actively expect that given the choice, the Yankees will make the wrong move.

          • Jim Is Bored says:

            A) There are arguments to be made that Cervelli and Stewart will be acceptable replacements, at their respective salaries, for what Martin got in Pittsburgh.

            B) If by “We” you mean the hordes of yankee fans who thought Swisher was awful and couldn’t hit in the clutch, were happy to see him go. I was not, but it’s not like there weren’t people who were happy with that outcome.

            C) Our bench is not our problem.

            D) I’d love for you to show me your crystal ball that’s explaining what 2014 will be like.

            At least you aren’t quitting like some fans apparently did in yesterday’s thread, and I can understand the panic inherent when you see a move like this. But why can’t you at least see the perspective that this spring was a perfect storm of shitty injuries, and desperate times make people do stupid things from time to time.

            It may not make you confident in their ability to perform in situations like this moving forward, but how often do so many things go wrong at the same time, and how many FO’s would you actually want running the show when shit goes down?

            Your post does not sound like someone who would vote a 1. It sounds more like a 4-5. So I stand by my 10 vote to balance that out.

            • Manny's BanWagon says:

              Voting a 10 is nothing more than whistling past the graveyard.

              If you wanna say 7 or 8, while I would think that’s overly optimistic, it’s Somewhat defendable but 10′s and on the opposite side 1′s are hard to take seriously.

              • Jim Is Bored says:

                I’m not voting a 10 because my rational side is that confident.

                My real vote is somewhere between a 5 and a 6.

                I’m voting a 10 to counter the 1s. Which I’ve said like 3 times in this thread. I’ve admitted it has no basis in what I actually believe.

            • Matt DiBari says:

              I really see no scenario where Stewart and Cervelli are gonna do anything other than threaten to give me a stroke.

              Vernon Wells is disqualifying. Vernon Wells, for *years* has been the guy that allegedly smart fans of allegedly smart teams joke about stupid teams panicking and acquiring. Vernon Wells was the worst possible move they could realistically make (Assuming they hold their ground and don’t get Yuni). 13 million dollars for Vernon Wells from a penny pinching team is almost unfathomable. If this is what they do when things go south, what the hell is next? Jeff Francouer?

              Again, what about anything that has happened over the last six months should make me go “yeah, they’ll do the right thing?”

              • Jim Is Bored says:

                You’re missing my point. The point is they’ve done a lot of “right things” too, and you’re acting as though this one, regardless of how bad it is, counters literally everything else they’ve done.

                You’re just completely discounting our current roster, and our minor league system, in favor of one move that in the scheme of things is going to, at worst, cost us the money that we could have used to acquire someone else mediocre.

                • Matt DiBari says:

                  Oh, I think if it overshadows everything else, bad and good. Acquiring, and paying handsomely for one of the worst players in baseball for no reason anyone can seem to suss out is bizarre to the point of questioning just who is making decisions, why they are doing so, and what their goal is. Because I actually can’t wrap my mind around the idea that someone serious in the front office thought this was going to help the New York Yankees win baseball games.

              • jjyank says:

                Look at Cervelli’s career numbers. If he can do that in 2013, I don’t think the drop off is going to be nearly as big as some people think, assuming his defense in spring training is for real.

                As for the faith in the FO thing…I disagree with Martin walking, signing Ichiro, and trading for Wells. But I thought Hafner and Youkilis were decent pick ups, the team has kept it’s above average farm system intact, they brought back Kuroda and Pettitte, and probably a few other things slipping my mind.

                That’s just my opinion. My perception of the front office went down a notch with the Wells trade, but it’s far from being in the basement.

              • Jim Is Bored says:

                And you are way, way, way, overvaluing Russel Martin. As it seems everyone is doing these days. He gave me plenty of strokes last year.

                • The Big City of Dreams says:

                  He gave us all strokes last yr. I think when it comes to Martin ppl view it as the lesser of two evils.

    • mac says:

      The no idea wha they are doing may be true, lets see what they do from here on out. I want to believe they will learn from this.

    • MannyGeee says:

      Glad you have an idea on what they are doing. seems legit

  15. Yogiism says:

    Just getting caught up on this whole Vernon Wells thing. A few things:

    1) Strangely, I had a feeling this would happen whether it was now or a few months ago, which indicates to me that it does make some sense, although I’m a bit limited at the moment as to why.

    2) Every time Wells is traded the acquiring GM loses their job. J.P. and Reagins, so is Cashman next? I’m a big Cashman fan and hope that’s not the case, but worth noting.

    3) Has anyone considered for a moment that maybe the Yankees, however unlikely, have a secondary deal in the works? I am not a fan of the Yanks dealing from strength, which oddly, is their pitching, at the moment. Maybe Joba, Mesa (or Mustieler) and someone like Mason Williams to the Rangers for Olt and another top prospect (pitching) that the Yanks could stash in A or AA for a season or two? I’m not saying that this exactly would be the deal, but you get the point and the direction I am going.

    I’m not going to over-react to the Wells deal. Most of us fans are putting way too much emphasis on a payroll that we do not control nor have the ability to understand precisely. There are few teams/GM’s that have the track record of Cashman and the scouting department to pick up older players that have big seasons. Their is something about the Yankee lure and players coming here and playing well. Vernon may not have a 30/100 season, but all things considered that if he hit .270 with 22 homers and 80 rbis, how do we all feel then? I’d say pretty good and those numbers are certainly attainable.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      1) Nah, I didn’t see this coming.

      2) Highly doubt it. I think Cashman is VERY comfortable as part of the braintrust.

      If you were to ask me, “should Cashman leave?,” my answer is a complex one. I don’t think anyone should stay in the same leadership position for very long. Whether we’re there already, or close to there, is not for me to decide. I don’t think he should be run out of town, but I think a healthy endpoint is within sight.

      3) I don’t think a specific deal is within sight, but I don’t think they stop looking at how to make the team beter.

      • Yogiism says:

        All fair points in response. I’m not going to over-react too much about the Wells deal. My money is on the dude has something left in the tank. The one thing I will say again is that I just don’t see the Yanks doing this deal without having some “other” conversation happening elsewhere for some of their players. Who knows who or what or when, but I just don’t see the Yanks going out and plucking Wells away from the Angels as a singular move.

        While most of us were rooting for Mesa and Almonte or even Mustieler to get that extra spot on the bench, it’s apparent that is just not going to happen at this point. This is where the strangeness comes in for me. Now what to do with them? Send all 3 back to AAA? I’m a little confused about the roster at the moment, which I am sure will work out this week, but what about J. Rivera, Francisco, Neal (goner), and a few others?

  16. Okulafan67 says:

    Vernon Wells! Yuniesky Betancourt! FUCK Hank and Hal Steinbrenner! Fuck Cashman!

    • jjyank says:

      Take a chill pill my man. Wells is a 4th OF and they didn’t even sign Betancourt.

      • Yogiism says:

        I’m reading comments across the net (bad idea) and some writers and they are picking the Yanks apart. While this deal doesn’t get a gold medal, it’s not that terrible. I’m not freaking out about it as many other fans are (not you). Watch the guy turn around and his .270 with 22 homers and 80 rbis and put up 2-3 wins. Considering the money being sent by the Angels, Tex’s WBC insurance money and the way Wells contract is structured for AAV and luxury tax purposes, it might not cost the Yanks that much at all. What if when this deal is complete, the Yanks turn around and send Joba and Mesa or Mustieler to the Rangers for Olt straight up? Well, that wouldn’t be so bad.

        Just trying to spread a little optimism on this thread. Put the butcher knife down people.

        • jjyank says:

          Yeah, we’ll see how it plays out.

          Not that I’m saying Wells can do this in 2013, but he did have a 134 wRC+ against lefties in 2011. Maybe he can take the Andruw Jones role and do alright. Again, huge overpay, but there’s a chance he’s not completely useless.

          It’s not a move I would have made, but I’m not going to crucify anyone yet.

        • City Island says:

          Yeah I’m with you, from what i’m reading here, you would think the Yanks sent a top prospect to LAA and took on all of Wells’ contract. It’s not a great deal to pay Vernon Wells $13 MM over two years, but it’s not horrible.

          I think a lot of the frustration comes from the idea that the Yanks could have kept Russell Martin, and used an OF platoon comprised of in-house options and inexpensive free agents… and would have been better off. And I agree, I would have preferred they went that route.

    • Guy in Next Cubicle says:

      So…big fella…does your wife know about these interesting fantasies you have? Yummy.

  17. Acquiring a really bad player is one thing, acquiring a really bad player and then pay him $13 million dollars and at the same time giving a team that the Yankees will be fighting for a wild card spot some financial flexibility is just unexplainable. Sorry I missed the thread yesterday, this is my last Wells post I swear.

    • Jim Is Bored says:

      I don’t think anyone here is justifying the move itself.

      We’re just trying to talk people down off the ledge over an overpaid 4th outfielder.

    • JayDee says:

      Good, if this was prision we know what you’d be doing given all that hand wringing.

  18. Slade Heathbar says:

    Allow me to play the Al Pachino here but what if, a very big if, what if Vernon Wells starts out as the everyday RF/LF and just mashes? Like im talking .325/.360/.550 with 5 HRs in April. In Cash we trust? Remember how bad Nick was before we traded….Different atmosphere, veteran club, etc.

    Or we could all end up eating a bag of dicks

  19. Manny's BanWagon says:

    Down to a 4. It’s not so much Wells as 4 th outfielder, it’s the bad judgement and air of desperation that would lead Cashman to pay $13 million for a player who’s been worth about 1WAR over the last 2 seasons combined. Jerry Dipoto must has damn near laughed himself off his chair getting the Yankees to absorb that much salary.

    More than Wells himself stinking up Yankee stadium, this move shakes my confidence in the Yankees front office.

    • Jim Is Bored says:

      He can laugh all he wants, but he’s running a team that signed him to that deal initially.

      • Manny's BanWagon says:

        Actually they didn’t sign Wells to that deal, Toronto did. Dipoto also wasn’t GM at the time the Angels traded for him either, I believe Tony Reagins was GM at the time. Dipoto inherited Wells until he was unbelievably able to pawn him off on the Yankees.

        • jjyank says:

          Yeah, that was J.P. Ricciardi when he was with Toronto, I believe.

          • Manny's BanWagon says:

            At the time, that signing didn’t look bad IMO as Wells was young and looked like he’d be a perennial All Star who’s bat played in a corner too for when he no longer could play CF. Who knew he’d go off a cliff at such a young age.

        • Jim Is Bored says:

          Yeah I misremembered, but I was careful to avoid saying DiPoto was the one to sign him.

          He’s still paying 3/4 of that salary.

  20. JayDee says:

    Folks sound like a bunch of Mets fans. The team is reacting to injuries, which is far better than the alternative of doing nothing. I’m happy with the Wells signing. It’s front loaded so minimal impact on next year despite the idiots who say otherwise (the allocation of contract payments to differing years has been discussed before). The guy is having an awesome spring and fits nicely into what we need for a fourth outfielder. While I’m not “expecting” gold, I have a feeling we’re going to be happy when all was said and done. Even if we’re not, these idiotic panic ratings should stop.

    • Baseball 101 – Spring Training stats are meaningless.

      If this was prison we all know what you’d be doing with all of your mouth loving towards the Yankees front office.

    • trr says:

      Sorry Jay, no amount of spin can improve this stinker. Wouldn’t it be better to allow the younger players to establish themselves than to have another end of career drek taking up space? And basing anythin at all on S/T stats. C’mon man!

  21. trr says:

    have to agree with you, Manny. like most of us I’m a little shaken by this poor move. 4!

  22. Kosmo says:

    Youk is getting paid 12 mil for 2013 and hasn´t been lighting the world on fire these past 2 years. Wells has put up similar numbers in the 2011-12 seasons. Not as many folks up in arms over the Youk signing. Hafner has yet to prove he can stay healthy and/or has earned a spot on the 25 man roster.
    Wells IMO is not a panic move as more of cover your bases move. Tex, Arod, Granderson and possible Jeter are all on the shelf, provided Wells still has something left, this gives NY more on the the field flexibility and a better D-OF and hopefully more power. Of course if Wells can still hit this could turn out to be a reasonably solid move if he doesn´t NY will eat 10-13 mil. or unload him for the proverbial PTBNL, not that they haven´t eaten contract before.

    • Yogiism says:

      Well said. I’m in agreement. Thanks.

    • Jim Is Bored says:

      I would have guessed that at the first real sign that 189 could be a bygone, a lot of people would be rejoicing, even if the move itself wasn’t brilliant.

    • LK says:

      “Youk is getting paid 12 mil for 2013 and hasn´t been lighting the world on fire these past 2 years. Wells has put up similar numbers in the 2011-12 seasons.”

      Vernon Wells’ OBPs, 2011 – 2012: .248, .279
      Kevin Youkilis’ OBPs, 2011 – 2012: .373, .336

      Apparently “similar” has a different meaning where you come from.

      • MannyGeee says:

        In fairness, since you are gonna play numbers nazi and be arbitrary in what data you show to fit the narrative, Youk and Wells have been trending in opposite directions in OBP over the past two seasons.

        So there’s that

  23. Hoss says:

    I haven’t posted here in what seems like months. After all of the injuries, I did not want to seem like I was rubbing it in, because I am a Yankee fan, and this Spring Training was killing me.

    My offseason predictions of “doom and gloom” were not based on the fact that I knew that key injuries would happen, but that injuries were a part of the game, the team had little to no depth because players that left were not replaced, and that Cashman was an awful, overrated GM being worshiped by a bunch of clowns who frequently post on this website.

    Now I am going to post because I feel totally vindicated. Vernon Wells? $6.5 million/year? You’ve got to be kidding me. When no offers were made to resign Chavez and Ibanez who are making half of that, no efforts were made to sign a catcher or Michael Bourn (which would have allowed the team to trade Gardner for other needs) or pick up pitchers like Marcum and possibly Villanueva – in other words, be active this offseason?

    The sheep here said we’d still win 90 games. I said 4th place finish and maybe 82-85. Are you all still thinking 90, 95? Ted? Where are all you Polyannas? The only good that may come of this is that you all realize what a lousy GM Cashman is. Anyone who leaves a team in this situation knowing that you have key players (like Jeter and Mo) coming off of major injuries, an aging roster and no depth should be fired. Period.

    • jjyank says:

      A word of advice: Nobody is going to take you seriously when you call those who disagree with you “clowns”, “sheep”, and “Polyannas”.

      • Kosmo says:

        “clowns and “Polyannas“ yes with “sheep“ he´s gone to far.

      • Hoss says:

        Then I won’t even mention what I was called when I made statements that indicated that the Yankees would be in this predicament several months ago.

        • jjyank says:

          An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, Hoss.

          • Hoss says:

            Not an eye for an eye. The usual suspects here are apologists for Cashman… have been and always will be. They defended him as a third of the team marched out the door this offseason and lauded bringing in Matt Diaz, Russ Canzler, Thomas Neal, Juan Rivera et al to replace them. Now we’re paying the price.

            • Jim Is Bored says:

              I’m submitting this post to be the next dictionary definition for the words: oversimplifying and obtuse.

            • Kosmo says:

              I´m not a fan of Cashman but in fairness you can´t blame him. His hands have been tied by the 189 ding.
              His alternative measures are what? Who knew Granderson and Tex would sustain injuries in ST?

              • Hoss says:

                Injuries happen to everyone, not just the Yankees. Tex missed almost 40 games last season and played several as DH. Who was going to play the other games at 1B? Rivera? Youk? Then who would play 3B? Nunez?

            • jjyank says:

              I think you are having some difficulty with reading comprehension. There is very, very little defense of this trade. I don’t agree with the trade. I have been advocating that it’s not the end of the world, however. Big difference, but I wouldn’t expect you to notice it. I’ve learned my lesson getting into it with you, so I’ll stop this here.

              • Jim Is Bored says:

                Me too. I don’t know why I respond to him.

                I think I’m going to code a filter that makes any comment containing the word “polyanna” disappear.

              • Hoss says:

                Defend anything that has been done this offseason.

                • jjyank says:

                  I could defend an awful lot, but you’re not interested in the other side of the coin. You have never been, and I doubt you ever will.


                  • Hoss says:

                    An awful lot. Me, too. I just ordered my Juan Rivera throwback jersey. It will take its place next to my Nick Johnson and Javier Vasquez signed balls.

                • MannyGeee says:

                  I can defend something done this offseason:

                  When you disappeared for like 2 months and were not heard from and no one was playing “NO NO NO Donkey” any time it could be said that the Yankess FO wasn’t the worst group of humans not named Hitler??

                  BEST MOVE OF THE OFFSEASON. I can truly defend that.

                  Lets hope you can continue to not be here straight through to October.

              • Robinson Tilapia says:

                He’s going to insist otherwise until he’s looped us into an argument. He’ll then leave with the belief that we’re just meanies.

    • JayDee says:

      The sheep who think the Yankees will win 90 games look forward to watching them played before deciding they have or haven’t been won. and something tells me that not wanting to seem like u r rubbing things in have little to do with whether u post or not. Now take ur hand and slap ur self.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      And another one returns. I thought we had changed the locks.

    • Get Phelps Up says:

      We missed you.

  24. Eddard says:

    We were at a 9 until the Vernon Wells deal. It’s an awful, awful deal and now we’re down to a 6. I thought the F.O. had finally turned a corner and was going to give these kids a chance, at least until Granderson, Teixera and Jeter return. If the problem is old age and injury shouldn’t the solution be youth and health? And youth is cheap. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.

  25. Robinson Tilapia says:

    I think I’m going to send Colin Cowherd a tweet to join this conversation. He’s not spent an hour talking about how the Yanks NEED Vernon. That should go over well here.

    • Manny's BanWagon says:

      I hope he’s just taking the argument contrarian to common sense to provoke his listeners because if he really believes that, he just dropped a peg in my book.

  26. Brian Strawman says:

    The reason for a lack of confidence is the failure of the plan for 2013-2014 and beyond. Cashman said he was not interested in commitments for 2014 and was looking for one year players and then acquires Vernon Wells. If you have been listening to WFAN in NY, the fans are disgruntled about this season and I suspect ticket sales are down possibly significantly. If the YES ratings are down the impact will cause more panic moves. The 189 plan and fiscal responsibility appears dead and Cashman’s job is on the line.

  27. JRod says:

    I think the Wells thing has Levine stamped all over it. He just wanted to blunder in and force a move for the sake of blundering in and forcing a move, in a failed attempt to assert his own relevance. I wish they were getting David Wells instead, but until they invented the austerity canard, nobody would have cared that the Yankees decided to piss away $10 million on a washed up player. If they give away a decent prospect, I’ll be angry. Otherwise I’m just annoyed.

    I’m holding at an 8. Maybe 7 would have been more appropriate, but it’s partly in reaction to the hysterical pessimism. All you people who voted “1″ are demented. This organization has made the postseason 17/18 years. They’ve got a bunch of older players coming off the payroll in 1-2 years. By avoiding desperate trades like the Wells deal, and retaining their prospects, they’ve maintained maximum optionality in navigating this transition. It could be sort of a weird, patchwork season, but this is the correct strategy.

    • Manny's BanWagon says:

      I think the Wells thing has Levine stamped all over it. He just wanted to blunder in and force a move for the sake of blundering in and forcing a move, in a failed attempt to assert his own relevance

      Pretty much pure speculation that Levine had anything to do with this move, no?

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        Pretty much.

        I wonder if Randy’s wife blames him for all the REALLY bad shit around the house, or if it’s just us.

        • Manny's BanWagon says:

          Mrs. Levine “God damnit, a tree just fell on the house. Randy, what kind of an asshole are you to allow a tree to fall on the f’in house?”

      • JRod says:

        Pure speculation and possibly unfair, but it just has that odor to it, IMO.

        • Manny's BanWagon says:

          The only other move I can recall that Levine made in recent years was Soriano which worked out pretty well so it’s not like there’s a long track record of him going above Cashman’s head.

    • MannyGeee says:

      In fairness to Randy Levine, the only documented “butting in” and “blundering about” that we have on him was the Soriano deal, which in counterpoint was an insanely awesome insurance policy for a guy who NEVER gets hurt (until you get the best possible insurance in the League. Who woulda thunk?)…

      And the ridiculous opt outs ended up working gangbusters because even the draft pick that was lost was recuperated.

      So, if you’re hunch is correct, here’s to hoping that we have EVEN A FRACTION of that same fortune with this deal.

  28. Bavarian Yankee says:

    down from a 6 to a 5 because of Vernon Wells. I’ll go down to a 4 if they sign Betancourt too.

  29. LarryM., Fl. says:

    6. The same level since October ’12 will not change even with the acquisition of Wells. As I indicated yesterday. I’m in the minority with Wells as its OK. Defensively he makes our OF better. If he stays healthy he can hit better than .222. He should provide some pop to all fields and be a pleasant surprise over the guys in camp vying for the platoon spot in the OF.

    Where I cringe a bit is my desire to see the team get younger. The OF spot was a perfect place to get some more youth and speed in the lineup. But the Wells move does not make the team worse. It keeps us at status quo with another health alert in place. Consider the opening day DL list with Youklis, Wells and the age of the rotation waiting to slip on the mound on a rainy, cold night in April or May.

    Why did they do it and not someone else sooner. Circumstances dictate change. I guess it was not so bleak until Jeter and Hughes joined Granderson and Arod.

    This season will be every interesting and surprising. I just hope if the injury bug cripples us than go with the young guys. Do not try and save a season unless it such a surprise on the good side of the W’s & L’s.

    • Steve says:

      The Wells trade may not have changed your mind, but nothing that has happened since October 2012 has lowered your opinion of the team at all? Losing Swisher and Martin, injuries to ARod, Granderson, Tex and now Jeter. None of those things lead you to believe that this team is any worse off now than they were in October?

      • LarryM., Fl. says:

        Steve, you may not see this reply. But 6 is as low as I’ll go. To me getting rid of Nick Swisher was a good move. If a player is good enough during the year but chokes the saw dust out of the bat in October than he’s got to go especially if the task is to winthe WS. The player can’t get it done. Martin hit in bad luck last year but his defense is over rated IMHO. Cervelli will do well with the D.

        The injuries should heal and the players will return and get us going in the right direction. 6 is a solid number for a team that will have a quality returning players from injury.

    • LK says:

      Wells doesn’t have power to all fields. He’s hit 2 HRs to RF since 2007.

  30. CS Yankee says:

    Voted a 3 for the first time as the FO has no flippin’ clue…13M$ plus a player? WTF?


    • CS Yankee says:

      The ghost of George is back, making stupid deals like this and sending my rant early.

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        Keep the prospects away from the ghost of Papa Bear until after the deal goes through.

        • CS Yankee says:

          This is like having a friend tell you he can’t do anything because if he doesn’t stick to a budget he’ll be screwed…this goes on for month’s on end and you check in to see how financial health is coming along…they say great, and go out and buy a Shetland Pony (while living in Denver).

          2009 & 2010 voted a 10 all year
          2011 voted 8 & 9”s all year
          2012 voted 7 & 8′s all year
          This off-season, I was 6 & 7′s, however today I needed to go a 3 for cause and effect.

          Hope my age isn’t making me bitter, love the mid-low end of the farm, the upcoming draft choices, the whole pitching staff, etc. However, this broke-dick over-aged lineup is really sad and will likely get worse before it gets better as Pronk/Youk DL’s are due soon. I wish the “Pony” money was saved and placed in a better manner.

          • Robinson Tilapia says:

            That first paragraph is how the knee-jerk side of me feels. Sure. It’s not entirely based in reason, but I can own up to that.

  31. Mike HC says:

    I’m down from a 7 to a 6 due to Jeter’s setback.

    The Vernon Wells trade is a slight positive in my book. He has hit well in Spring, so maybe the Yanks scouts see some improvement, and it is just another outfielder to add to the mix. If the money is split between the two years to help us save on luxury tax, then it off sets overpaying him by like 5 mil.

  32. Ted Sheckler says:

    Vernon Wells Yankeeography 2013…good god is this real life?

  33. A.D. says:

    So do folks have bets on who the minor leaguer is other than Slade Heathcott?

    My bet: Higashioka

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      I thought for a brief second, “what if it’s Betances?” I don’t think they’d do that, though. There’s still a smidge of shine, and a chance to be attempted as a reliver before he’s fodder.

      I maintain that they’re shutting down Shaeffer Hall for any future shows.

    • MannyGeee says:

      I was thinking Higashioka as well. He feels like the prototypical “low level prospect that would be in a weird trade…”

  34. Barry's Gift Basket says:

    The new market inefficiency: getting another team to take Vernon Wells off your hands.


    TBH, I would’ve prefered to see Melky Mesa, or FHOF Mustelier, out there until Granderson returns.

    Down to 5, in my book it means 50-50 chance to make the playoffs for the yankees. IT was at 70-30 before the injuries (Voted 7), 60-40 after the injuries (Voted 6), Now 5 after giving money to Vernon Wells. If the yankees cannot make a move at the july deadline because they are giving 12 fucking million dollars to a guy with a .258 OBP the last 2 years, I’m gonna go bananas an will bite my female coworkers.

  35. jsbrendog says:

    when the hell do we find out what is actually happening and who is getting traded andhow much wells is getting paid? for god sakes how has it not come out yet?

  36. mustang says:

    My 6 are totally riding on the pitching I think the Wang pick up was smart. I agree that the Wells pick up is a panic move, but when half the team is in the ER before opening day the panic button becomes very attractive. My anger goes straight to ownership that held a ridiculous hard line on spending during the winter handcuffing the GM. Then they change their tone once fans reacted negatively.
    Lets keep in mind that Hal is still a young owner and that we may need to go through some growing pains. As long as he doesn’t panic to the point where he is trading the Gary Sanchez’s of the world for the Vernon Wells types I guess I can deal. Lets just hope Hal “the owner ” grows up fast.

    • mustang says:

      Bottom line the 13 million they are spending on Wells could of been spent on better insurance policy players for an aging injury prone team while still keeping the 189 mandate.

      That’s just piss poor planning.

  37. Bavarian Yankee says:

    via MLBTR: Brewers sign Lohse. So at least it’s safe to say that we won’t lose a draft pick.

  38. Robinson Tilapia says:

    Passan just referred to Yanks as “Pathetic Empire” on Lupica. Let’s see what else comes up, if anything, and other than my lunch.

  39. Pat D says:

    I was struggling to remember why I haven’t been posting as much the last few weeks. This thread and the Wells thread have reminded me.

    Did the season start yet?

  40. nsalem says:

    I don’t think this deal is as awful as people make it out to be. Especially if his salary does not count to the 2014 season. In 2010 Wells had 78 XBH hits which was 4 less than Cano had last year and at least 10 more than any other Yankee. It is unlikely but not impossible for him to return to that level. The trade does have a scent of desperation because we are in a desperate situation. Jeter, Tex and A-Rod are facing uncertain futures and in light of this it maybe a chance worth taking.

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