Heyman: Yankees and Cano remain far apart in contract talks

World War Zoilo: Almonte leads Yanks to 6-2 win over Rays
Game 74: Encore

Via Jon Heyman: The Yankees and Robinson Cano remain far apart during contract extension talks and are not close to a new deal. Negotiations could pick up after the All-Star break, but right now it’s a “very likely outcome” that the second baseman will hit free agency after the season.

Cano, 30, is hitting .276/.345/.498 (123 wRC+) this year, which is a step down from his 2010-2012 production (142 wRC+). He still has 90-something games to turn that around of course, but Robbie is struggling against lefties for the second straight year. Heyman hears the Yankees have suggested a $138M pact in line with David Wright’s recent extension, though Cano’s camp is obviously seeking every last cent.

World War Zoilo: Almonte leads Yanks to 6-2 win over Rays
Game 74: Encore
  • Eddard

    And that’s just fine. 5/$125 that Hamiltion got is about as far as I would go with a player over 30 years old. Look at the disaster A-Rod and Pujols deals. No more 8+ year contracts for players over 30 years old. If you are going to sign a player to 8+ years sign him when he’s 27 so that all of his peak years are in the contract.

    • mustang (The Has Been & Wannabes Bunch 2013)

      Agree although it would very painful to watch him walk this year is making it a bit easier.

      • Tio Rico

        It would be even more painful to see him struggle like Alex, Pujols etc, in a couple of years while they are stuck with another huge contract.

        • mustang (The Has Been & Wannabes Bunch 2013)


        • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

          I may be in the minority, but to me Cano doesn’t strike me as someone that will get run down like Pujols did so quickly,

          This is not to say that an 8-year contract is a good idea. Just saying that Pujols injury concerns didn’t just show up out of nowhere when he got to L.A. This was happening the last couple years in St.Louis too.

          Plenty of reasons not to give Cano money, but we have to at least acknowledge that he’s always been healthy.

          • Winter

            That’s part of wha made the Pujols contract so bad: it’s not like his injuries came out of nowhere. But A-Rod didn’t have Pujols’s injury history, and he still ended up being an injury mess. Second basemen tend to fall off a cliff in their early- to mid-thirties, so even though Cano hasn’t shown signs of being injury prone, signing him to a long-term contract is still worrisome.

          • OhioYanks

            Pujols played 160, 159, and 147 games his last three seasons as a Card. And he hasn’t missed time as an Angel.

            Today you can look back and see a declining trend and it was certainly reasonable to say he might decline going forward. However, one data point of a slightly injured, slightly declined but still elite season doesn’t really tell you that a guy is going to fall off a cliff like Pujols has.

            Cano is currently having his worst season in the last four years. So, if you concluded at the time that Pujols was showing signs of decline with one season I think you’d have to conclude the same for Cano. Seeing as Cano’s peak was no where near as pronounced or as long as Pujols’, his decline would be a lot uglier if you want to apply the logic that Pujols’ one off season foretold a steep decline.

            Overall, I would say that this one bad half season doesn’t tell us Cano will fall off a cliff, but that he’s probably just as likely to do so as Pujols was.

            • Ed

              Pujols wasn’t just slightly injured. He’s had multiple elbow injuries over the years. The arm problems are why he plays first base. He’s also been battling knee problems in recent years. While he rarely missed time, he’s been playing hurt more often than not. He’s had several offseason surgeries in recent years.

              That’s still a significant injury history you can’t just write off. That many injuries will catch up to a player eventually.

              • OhioYanks

                Pretty subjective stuff. You’re pointing to some injuries that pre-date his incredible run as the best hitter in baseball. It would also take some actual analysis to convince me that unrelated injuries years apart catch up to a player.

                A ton of drinking will catch up with a player eventually, too, but Miggy is still probably the best hitter in baseball at the moment and I wouldn’t bet on his falling off a cliff the next few years. I certainly might happen, though. Pujols has fallen progressively off a cliff the last three years, but I would argue it wasn’t destined to happen that way. The Angels were taking a huge risk and I wouldn’t have given him that much long-term money, but I don’t think this quick of a fall was to be expected.

    • Laz

      Honestly I’d rather spread the money around if it gets to $160M+
      It all comes down to how many elite years you think he has left, If you go $200M, but think he will only stay good/healthy for the first 6 years, that puts cost at $33M for those 6 years. If you got unlimited money it is fine, but is Cano and 2 black holes in the corner OF better than say, Hart, Pence, and Cojo? No, even if it costs around the same.

      • OhioYanks

        I would only go so high on Cano as well, but “Cano and 2 black holes in the corner OF” is a bit misleading. That is not the only alternative to the “Hart, Pence, and Cojo” scenario you’ve constructed. The Yankees could also potentially find cheap production in the corner spots from a young guy like Zoilo or a cheap FA signing like Shierholtz or Andruw Jones part 1/Marcus Thames.

  • Bavarian Yankee

    yesterday MLBTR wrote that Robbie is (probably) seeking A-Rod money


    • Eddard

      Then he’s delusional. A-Rod was at least putting up huge numbers. Cano is a nice player but his OPS this year is .843. His highest was last year at .929. That’s not someone you throw $275 million at for 10 more years. Not even close.

      • trr

        That is hardly a credible source, but were that the case, let him go

        • RetroRob

          Negotiating position no doubt. Ask for A-Rod money, hope for something above the Yankee offer.

          It’s probably to the Yankees advantage to let this play out at this stage if Cano’s advisors are asking for the moon. No advantage to the Yankees signing. Cano also better step it back up to last year’s level, otherwise the slight slip in production will be compared to the signs that Pujols and Hamilton were declining.

  • Law Student

    Not that I advocate this, but if the Yanks are serious about 189, they should really consider trying to move him for a major-league ready prospect and some other prospects. Otherwise they’re going to end up either overpaying Cano or getting a comp pick versus getting multiple prospects under team control.

    • OhioYanks

      Flip side of this is that by hanging on to Cano they win more games the rest of this season and have the off-season to find cheaper production. Not saying either is the right move, just that there’s an argument both ways. Prospects are pretty fickle.

      Cano can be easily fit under $189 if they are serious about that plan. And it might take until the off-season to convince him that A-Rod money is out of his reach.

  • Travis L.

    And here is the debate, trade Cano now or let him decline the QO and get the pick. Would the pick be high enough to net a prospect that is equal to or greater than what the Yankees would receive in a trade? If not, then as hard as it may be to do, I’d move him. Like someone in another post said, “do what St. Louis did with Pujols and let someone else pay for the decline”. You know it had to be hard to say good bye to Albert. But I’m sure they are ok with it now.

    Move Adams to 2B and hope that the rest of the team in 2014 can play at a decent level. You’ll never get Robbie’s level of production, but many teams survive and go to the playoffs (or WS if you’re a Giants fan) without having a “superstar” player. Posey is close, Cain is close, but do either of them rate as high as Cano…not really.

    Go Yankees! Make the right (and difficult) call.

    • Bo Knows

      …..And with the #1 pick of the 2015 MLB draft the Yankees select.

      • Travis L.

        They wouldn’t get that pick (unfortunately). But I get which side of the argument you are on.

        • Bo Knows

          I do want Cano back, but if he doesn’t so be it. It’s almost a guarantee that if he goes this team is going to be flat out terrible, and I’ve accepted that because that’s what happens to teams all the time, the Yankees aren’t immune to it just because they are the Yankees. I’ll still watch the team and root for them

          I did that joke above because when these same people saying “trade him” or “don’t give him…” this or that see Cano walk, and see how next years team makes this years look like the ’98 squad, I don’t want to read a single complaint from those people because I am going to feel no sympathy and will be a complete bastard to them while they bitch about how bad the team is.

          Honestly it might be for the best, we’ve been spoiled and sometimes you got to see what bad really is before you learn to appreciate what you had.

          • OhioYanks

            Have to disagree. Teams do not always fall off when their best player leaves. There are plenty of examples of teams that did as well or better after losing guys as good as or better than Cano.

            There will be plenty of ways to spend the 25 or however many millions of dollars a year the Yankees will have to spend to keep Cano. Some of those ways are likely to yield more production than Cano. Some will yield less.

            • Bo Knows

              Teams fall off when they have no alternatives for their best player leaving. FA has become a farce, only Scott Boras clients, aging stars or marginal players make it that far anymore. So while they may have money to spend their isn’t going to be anyone worth spending it on. Also considering the Yankees predicament next year

              Granderson is likely gone
              Tex in all likely hood will be coming off surgery and even if he doesn’t he suffered an injury that takes a very long time to recover from.

              Jeter will be 40 yrs old and close to retirement
              Arod is a decent player but may not be so after his 2nd hip surgery and is injury prone in his advanced age
              Catcher is a hole unless they get McCann, because even if a prospect stepping up, they will struggle as they adjust.
              No Robbie at second and that is a huge dropoff

              The OF will be Gardner and a bunch of Jags

              Yankees are in a unique position, where if Robbie leaves will be very bad. Having money is nice but if there is no one/thing to spend it on, all it does is line your pockets.

              The only option they have is trades, but considering the age of most of their prospects (very young) and the age of their current roster they can’t afford to gut the system because they are going to have a ton of other issues.

              • OhioYanks

                Whole lot of over-generalization going on in your comment.
                You have basically taken the worst case outcome on everything and tried to make it the most likely outcome.

                If they will be “very bad” without Robbie, how good do you think that they will be with him? I’d guess not a whole lot better. Cano has averaged 6.5 fWAR the past three seasons. That was likely his prime and he’s likely to decline at least a bit going forward. Then there’s whoever replaces him not necessarily being replacement level, and being somewhat likely to be at least a bit better. Say that between the $ and the 2B spot the Yankees effectively replace half Cano’s production (which seems fairly conservative considering it’s like $25 million in savings). They have lost all of 3 wins by fangraphs’ estimations. What is 3 wins better than “very bad?” Still pretty bad I would imagine.

                Free agency doesn’t have the depth of top end talent it used to, but there is still talent.
                The Red Sox are in first place in part due to the holes that they managed to plug via free agency, just as one example. There were plenty of other FAs signed on reasonable contracts who have produced so far around the league. Yankees themselves found a gem in Kuroda recently.

                The Yankees C spot is not a strength, but it has not been a “hole” this season either. If Romine doesn’t have to step in for Cervelli due to injury (and he was the 3rd stringer even if Martin is re-signed), I’d bet they are around league average at C (1 fWAR to date).

                • Bo Knows

                  Here’s the list of the FA class for 2014


                  I’m was not exaggerating when I said the list is nothing but Boras clients, aging players, mediocre ones, and a couple of gems that are going to cost major cash. (Cano being the diamond of them all)

                  Cano at 31 will be one of the youngest FA’s, he’s also the best one available. That list has only a handful of players are decent or better.

                  also WAR is an incredibly overrated stat (that’s a talk for another day)

                  • OhioYanks

                    Plenty of intriguing names on that list. A lot of them around 30. Might want to take another look. People said the same thing this past off-season. Free agency is not what it used to be, but that doesn’t mean that there’s no talent available whatsoever.

                    Would love to hear why WAR is overrated. My question remains unanswered, though. How much of a difference does Cano make? If you believe WAR is so overrated, what is your method of quantifying that?

    • Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)

      Posey > Cano

      • Bo Knows

        Posey> everyone save for Miguel Cabrera and possibly Trout.

        Cano is a top 10 player (though he hasn’t hit like one this year)

      • Travis L.

        My bad. Could a case be made that Cano is more of a superstar because he has strung together so many good seasons? Lincecum had a couple awesome seasons, then fell off a cliff. Maybe Posey does that…or gets hurt again. Cano stays healthy. Either way, my point stands.

    • OhioYanks

      That’s not really the debate. You’ve stacked the deck in your favor. You have to consider the WAR for the rest of this season that Cano provides over Nix, Adams (who doesn’t play 2B that well anymore), or CoJo. If that’s 3 fairly certain wins, it probably does a lot to influence the conversation.

      When you are saying that Posey is not a super-star player, you are really reaching (and distorting reality) to make your point. (Posey was at 7.6 fWAR last season, Cano was at 7.8.) Winning is not all about super-stars, no, but the Giants had a super-star last season.

  • ExitCashman

    Cano is not worthy of more than 4 years at this point. I agree that Hamilton is a good comparison, and it appears that the Halos got the short end of the stick there.
    If the Dodgers would like to take him on, a return of Mr. Puig would be just fine. From a PR perspective, that might not be possible, but I would consider trading Cano now for a top prospect. If he loves NY, he can come back as a FA, just like Cliff Lee did with the Phillies. This season does not look like a “championship caliber team.”

    • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

      Hamilton is not a good comparison. Cano has not played fewer than 159 games in any of the last 6 seasons.

      Josh Hamilton has averaged 105 games played the last six seasons.

      Pretty terrible comparison, actually.

      • RetroRob

        Agreed. Hamilton was/is injury prone, is an OFer, and has a major substance abuse issue. He also was showing some alarming tendencies (I’m not talking minor decline) the second half of last year, at the plate and the field.

        I’m hoping they can get Cano for six years. There will be decline, and that’s to be expected, but anything past that and it could get quite ugly.

  • mt

    I am at peace with letting Cano go – would be less so if he put the team on his back this year and was delivering big time – he is shrinking from it. I don’t see Yanks making a trade of Cano this year so QO may be best we get.

    I have always thought that Cano should make more than D Wright but are their statistics that different – one plays 3B and one plays 2b but DW was younger at the time he signed his contract, I believe.

    It is hard to pay Cano 7 years for $190 million or something like that when D Wright is making 6 years at $138 million. And some of Cano’ss weaknesses (hitting against lefties; sub-par performnace in RISP situations) started occurring last year. Also the future Yankee line-up, although it certainly will improve form this year’s injury depleted line-up, will look more Cano dependent than the old 2006 Murderers Row and Cano line-up so Cano has to be relied upon to come through.

    If St. Louis can let Albert Pujols go who won 2 World Series with StL with multiple MVP seasons, letting our great 2b Robbie Cano does not look as hard in comparison. The problem is that not sure what strategy we have without Cano – at least St L had loads of younger players in wings, both pitchers and position players.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)

      The problem is that not sure what strategy we have without Cano – at least St L had loads of younger players in wings, both pitchers and position players.

      Exactly. The Yankees aren’t set up very well for the next few years (even with Cano). If the Yankees are going to seriously try to win in the next couple of years, signing Cano MIGHT be the best of bad options.

      • Fin

        I’m not sure I agree with this line of thinking. If the Yankees dont have talent to surround Cano with, especially in his first couple of years of the contract, why sign him to a long term deal at all? If they arent going to be a contender during Canos best years he will be a waste of money. This isnt basketball where 1 player can carry a team.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)

          I should clarify. I think it’s only possibly a worthwhile move if they are going to SERIOUSLY try to win in the next couple of years. That means no austerity plan. That means upgrading other positions to add offense. That means maintaining the quality of pitching.
          If it’s going to be Cano and a bunch of filler, then I agree with you. Not remotely worth the long term risk.

          • Fin

            It seems pretty clear to me that we are in for a couple of long years. I mean I certainly could be wrong but I read this off seasons’ moves as a rebuild or austerity whatever it is. The Yankees didnt sign martin or Swisher, didnt really even make a run at them. They are both solid players and the Yankees were happy to downgrade. It seems to me the Yankees are gearing up to rebuild their roster and let contracts expire. I think its more likely the yankees are and average/bad team for the next couple of years than they are a good team.

            • Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)

              That’s quite possible.
              I’m thinking this years issues on the field and in declining attendance and ratings might get them to change their plan for the next couple of years, but that remains to be seen.
              I do think there are moves that could be made in the offseason (if they’re willing to spend at even current levels) that could enable them to actually be a solid contender for the next couple of years.

              • The Doctor

                If they re-sign Cano and Kuroda, then add McCann and a corner outfielder (Choo, Pence, etc), barring another year of catastrophic injuries, I believe they’d be in as good of a position to win as anyone. It’s entirely dependent on their willingness to abandon the $189M plan, which in light of the minimal savings it’ll actually provide combined with dropping TV ratings and attendance, is probably the most financially prudent move for he organization.

  • KennyH123

    Wright-type contract is more than enough for a guy on the wrong side of 30, who is declining against lefthanders, and as talented as he is, has never…never… been a guy who busts in down the line or gives 100% all the time. I’ve watched Cano jog down the line for years. And I’ve listened to the morons who say, oh it just looks like he’s not hustling. Yeah, that’s because he’s not hustling.

    Look, Cano is a mega talent, we all know that. But he is the last guy on earth I’d want to give a 7 year contract for $150+ million to. I would trade him today for Pedroia.

    • The Doctor

      This is idiotic. You don’t decide which 7-8 win per year player you give a big contract to based on whether or not they hustle down the line. The fact is Cano, even with his refusal to run hard to first, is one of the game’s most valuable players. If he hustled down the line, he may pick up an extra few hits a year. Great. He’s also more likely to get hurt. If I had to bet, I’d say the benefit would be minimal. On defense, the whole “it only looks like he isn’t hustling” thing is true. Other than UZR, he consistently ranks out as a plus defender by all metrics.

      Could he maybe be a BIT better if he hustled? Sure. I can’t deny that. Is he already a star at an incredibly difficult to fill position? Yes. Something that never has been part of his game missing will not change that. You’d be a fool to believe it somehow negates all the value he has consistently shown.

      • OhioYanks

        While I don’t totally agree with the first comment, you seem to take it to the other extreme. I mean saying that hustling down the line increases your risk of injury is really, really pushing it. You can like Cano without going that far to validate him. His UZR is bad because his range is atrocious. What other metrics are you referring to? If they’re not looking at range, that’s probably the issue.

        He’s also gotten to the 7-8 fWAR range once in his career, when a career best offensive year intersected with defensive ratings out of line with the rest of his career. Otherwise he has broken 6 once according to fangraphs and 3 times according to bref. He averaged 6.5 fWAR his 27-29 year old seasons, which was likely his prime. The next 5-10 years I would not expect quite that much production.

        So, homerism aside, I think it’s pretty reasonable to say that the Yankees shouldn’t give Cano all that much more than David Wright got. If we take Wright’s deal as fair market value (no idea if we should) I could definitely see giving more between consistency and position, but not a ton more. Wright has generally been very good (same age as Cano with about 50% more career fWAR) and 3B is not an easy position to fill either.

    • The Doctor

      Wow I didn’t even read the last line. Some fan you are. In two of the last 3 full seasons, Cano has been worth about double what Pedroia’s been worth. The only year of those three in which Pedroia was better was 2011, and if Fangraphs used a different defensive metric than the only one this doesn’t like Cano’s defense, he’d have been more valuable that year too.

      • O’Neill Take a Bow

        really? even you say the numbers back up Pedroia’s superiority in 2011 and this year at the moment is going in Dustin’s favor, as well. To proclaim Robbie to be above his chief rival is blind nepotism towards our team.

        Not saying he is better than Cano but, the numbers always seem close enough that neither will ever create enough statistical separation.

        And one definitely plays the game harder and that will always endear Pedroia with a broader range of admirers. Personally, i can’t help but notice some eerily similar intangibles of a certain yankees captain

  • Mick taylor

    The yanks are crazy if they give him more than Hamilton. Maybe you give him slightly more than wright. But let him walk. There will be other free agents in the next few years including pedroia Miguel Cabrera who they could sign instead of cano.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)

      Highly unlikely either Cabrera or Pedroia make it to free agency.

      • Bo Knows

        And Dustin is no guarantee to stay on the field, he’s constantly injured.

        Also I consider you f’n crazy to take the midget over Cano.

        • O’Neill Take a Bow

          Anyone else tired of the midget slurs?

          Funny, how a man whose hustle is universally praised and we continue to mock such fundamental winner characteristics. Used to be a Yankee trademark what the “the midget’ does in the field.

          Now we mock it because our sole player of all-star caliber gets by without doing much of it. How pathetic of the fan base to compromise his standards because of our new leader’s policy on hustle.

  • Kosmo

    Wright´s contract @ 6-138 is as far as I´d go with Cano. If cano walks this next offseason could get interesting. NY would then need to fill positions @ C,2B,RF,LF,DH maybe SS if Jeter has zero range left and 3B if Arod gets handed with a 100 game suspension.
    NY could receive another 3 #1 picks with the departing Cano and Granderson.
    I´d rather NY spread around the money they might be committing for Cano to sign McCann to a 3 year deal and maybe Beltran on a 2 yr deal. Explore what landing a decent FA pitcher Garza? would cost. Make a couple of solid 2013 deadline deals that could strengthen the club for the 2014 season.

    • The Doctor

      I’m a huge McCann fan, but it’ll take more than 3 years. I was thinking 4 minimum, and he’ll push for 5.

  • hey now

    I know it’s cliche at this point, but let’s face it: There’s two different Canos.

    One who plays with passion when he wears a DR on his cap.

    The other who plays like he’s just collecting a paycheck and isn’t afraid to half-ass it.

    If this is how he plays before he gets his megadeal, how is he going to respond after?

    • O’Neill Take a Bow

      well, you already have a formulated and strong opinion on the question. Considering his glaring intangible problems, Robbie’s eventual decline will be even uglier than we can imagined from our statistical analysis.

  • JohnnyC

    Cashman’s really on the clock on this one. All the self-serving grousing about ARod’s contract…here’s an almost identical situation. Let’s see what Cashman’s decision is and where that puts the Yankees’ future at. Have a feeling Hank won’t be the scapegoat on this one. It’s in Cashman’s court.

    • RetroRob

      No. It will still end up in Hal/Levine’s court. Cashman may recommend x/xx, and will be prepared to walk away. History says the ones above him may step in.

  • fred robbins

    seems like most everyone -and I agree with most everyone– is working under the assumption that the Yankee brass knows what they are doing. There is no real honest, deep down reason to sign Cano for a dime more than Hamilton. The Yankees hype their minor league talent and they seem to over-value who they put on the field. How is it even possible that they have ignored shortstop as a position that needs a young star like a Segura from Milwaukee. Jeter has a player option for a ton of money for next year and he will really be just a DH from now on, unless you want a shortstop who can move about one step in either direction and you want to get used to see thousands of ground ball hits rolling into the outfield.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)

      Cano’s durability, ability to play a premium defensive position, and lack of addiction worries, all while providing similar offensive value to Hamilton are all reasons why Cano has a valid claim to a bigger contract than Hamilton.

      That said, I thought Hamilton’s contract was a big overpay, so I’m not sure it’s a good point of reference.

    • JohnnyC

      It’s a good thing the Yankees hype their own minor league talent because, believe me, no one else does. The “hype” if that’s what you think it is hasn’t pulled the wool over anyone’s eyes. Other teams are not knocking down their doors to make trades for these “hyped” prospects. Look at how many hoops Cashman had to jump through just to make a deal with Jack Z in Seattle. The Rangers’ hype has more mojo than the Yankees’ — remember when Mike Olt was a no-brainer? LOL.

      • Manny’s BanWagon


      • FEED.ME.MORE!

        We are the ONLY team to hype it’s prospects……right.

        It’s not to say they have done a great job in player development. But what is Cashman supposed to say? “Our farm system is terrible. If you are a GM and see me calling you, send me to voicemail.”???????

      • OhioYanks


        Yankees had, what? 4 guys on most top 100 prospect lists entering the season? 5 on some. Plus a top 50 guy on the mend in Banuelos. Farm mostly ranked in the 10-15 range by the media as I remember.

    • RetroRob

      Last year’s market has nothing to do with this year’s market, especially when we’re dealing with a durable, home-grown 2B’man, compared to an injury-prone, substance-abusing, free-agent OFer.

      The market will determine the price.

  • Fin

    Seems Cano is already showing signs of decline with his struggles against LHP and decline in performance so far this year. As we have seen with Hamilton and Puljos these contracts for guys over 30 can go bad almost immediately. I’m all for a Hamilton type deal, but I don’t see that coming close to getting it done. Someone (Dodgers) are going to offer him 8-10yrs in the 200m range. Hopefully, the Yankees walk away. The game has changed since they started cleaning up the roids. How many elite players are in the game right now over the age of 32/33? The days of guys dominating into their mid 30s let alone 40s seems to be a thing of the past.

  • Jersey Joe

    The problem with letting Cano go is that we have 1 position player who has been consistent this year and not affected by injuries/other outside forces – Gardner. Tex’s wrist, Jeter’s ankle, A-Rod’s possible suspension, Cervelli’s possible suspension, Ichiro being 40 years old, Wells playing like he’s 60 years old, and everyone else on the team now is a pending FA (Nix, Hafner, Overbay) or we’re really not sure about what they can offer (Boesch, Adams, Brignac).

    Lately, it seems as though the Yankees may not go through with the 189 plan for 2014. I think for this year, they should finish out and give Mo what he deserves in his last season by putting band-aids at third base and maybe in an outfield corner.

    But if the Yankees are going to have yet another lackluster season like they have this year, I just don’t see the point of trying to contend in the first place if you have no flexibility to make any moves at the deadline because you are pushed up against the 189 limit.

    I think it makes sense to keep Cano for Mo, get the picks, and then next year, play the kids. Put Adams and CoJo at 2nd, see what Brignac can do a shortstop and turn into his 2010 form, maybe call up Slade, see if Boesch is worth anything to the future, keep Jeter as DH, have an Ichiro/Wells platoon, and hope to God that ARod gets a lifetime ban.

    Use 2015 to get that big pick in the draft, along with the compensation for staying under 189. If we’re lucky, we’re able to sign Headley, maybe make a few trades with the pieces displayed in 2014, and piece together the new young team.

    OK, I am really getting away from the point, but letting Cano go can’t be the worst thing in the world; we have a lot of prospect depth at 2B with Adams, Gumbs, Joseph, maybe Ronnier that would be hidden by someone who is putting up mediocre numbers.

    • O’Neill Take a Bow

      agreed. IETC

  • Manny’s BanWagon

    If Cashman and co weren’t inept at player development, letting Cano walk wouldn’t be so disastrous. If Cano leaves, who replaces him? Probably Dave Adams who’s ceiling is average hitter, below average defender.

    The Cardinals weathered Pujols leaving because their system is a machine churning out 1 quality player after another.


      It is harder to replace up-the middle superstars though.

      How many times have 2B, SS, 3B, C All-Star/superstars reached free agency, much less signed to a different team?

      Cano has durability, so you can’t use Josh Hamilton as a comp.

    • OhioYanks

      Most of the guys the Cardinals have had success with were not top prospects. To say that David Adams’ “ceiling” is basically being a below average player so the Yankees have not “developed him well” before his first half season in MLB is pretty funny.

      Seriously, take a look at their roster. They have had a bunch of guys reach or approach their ceilings. (Adams’ ceiling, by the way, is above league average hitter.)

      However much you want to ascribe to skill and a string of good luck (it is almost definitely a mix of both), they have taken the David Adams, Corban Josephs, and Zoilo Almontes of the world and a bit higher, stuck them on the field, and watched them produce.

      • Manny’s BanWagon

        A lot of reading comprehension issues here.

        No one said the Yankees “didn’t develop Adams well.” The point is he’s the best they have as a possible replacement for Cano at this point and no one in their right mind thinks he’s an acceptable replacement should Cano walk. He might make it as a utility guy but I haven’t heard anyone’s opinion in the business who projects him as a starting caliber 2nd basemen.

        Whether it’s drafting, developing or likely a combination of the 2, they haven’t developed an acceptable amount of major league players recently or they wouldn’t need to sign or trade for garbage like Ichiro, Wells and Youkilis and have no decent replacement for Jeter or Teix.

        Also I wouldn’t pat the Yankees on the back for Adams, Almonte and Joseph just yet.

        • OhioYanks

          Reading comprehension issues, not to mention logic issues, are clearly on your end here bud. No need to be a total ass on a blog. You have not seemed to understand anything that I wrote.

          You cannot decide how someone has developed until they actually are done developing. The Cards are the perfect example of this. No one is patting the Yankees on the back for Adams, Almonte, or Joseph (how could you possible read what I wrote and conclude that?). The point I made was that the Cards guys came up with fairly similar amounts of fan fair as the Yankees guys: not a lot. To point to the Cards and say that the Yankees have not developed top prospects so their guys will not work out is hilariously ironic.

          You know how many Baseball America top 100 lists Craig, Carpenter, and Matt Adams combined to make? Zero. The first two also didn’t debut before their 25 year old seasons. Their respective draft rounds were 8th, 13th, and 23rd. Jay never made BA and debuted in his 25 year old season as well.
          Freese was acquired for Jim Edmonds, and debuted in his 26 year old season. He never made BA top 100 either.
          These were not guys who anyone expected to set the world on fire. They were second tier prospects like Adams, Almonte, Romine, Murphy, Flores, etc. Whether it’s luck or skill that they have all worked out, it was not expected from all of them. It is the height of irony to imply that the Yankees second tier prospects will not work out while referencing the team who has had all of its second tier prospects work out.

          The Cards have, in fact, signed veterans themselves. Holliday, Beltran, Furcal, Westbrook. They had to trade for their closer. They haven’t filled every hole internally at all.

          The Yankees have had a handful of Ps from their system step up to varying degrees this season, so can’t really see citing that as the problem. For years now they’ve been getting MLB and trade chip contribution from Ps.


    My limit is 7 for $150M.

    He’s a superstar and deserves to be paid like one.

    But I draw the line at 7 years.

    Cano doesn’t have to be the 2B forever, so you can move him to 3B or 1B when Alex and Tiex contracts are over. In two years Alex might be the perma-DH, so 3B might be open anyway.

  • Fin

    I see people talking about Cashman when it comes to Robbie. I really doubt this will be Cashman’s call. Sure he will have input as to what he thinks Robbie is worth and for how many years, but I highly doubt he has the final say. Seems more than likely that Levine and Hal are going to make the call on this one, and Cashman will end up holding the bag if it goes bad. Like he does most of the time with Arod.

  • Jon

    Trade him at the deadline!

  • FIPster Doofus

    I wouldn’t feel too good about anything over 6/130. But I’d rather trade Robbie at the deadline for a package headlined by an elite prospect(s) who’s close to ML-ready rather than be saddled with another huge contract for a 30-something.

  • Frank

    I believe the Yankees need to rebuild and get younger. Signing Cano isn’t a MUST. You offer him 5 years in the $125 Mil range and don’t budge. If you have to, Trade him at the deadline for some top prospects to build your farm system.

    Trade Hughes as well.

  • Andrew M.

    If they’re that far apart then I say move him. A half year of Beltran who is far inferior to Cano a couple years ago got Zachary Wheeler, Greinke last year got the Brewers Segura and 2 good arms. I think a few teams would move some talent to get him. Tigers with Castellanos and a couple arms, Dodgers with Lee, Rangers with Olt/Profar.