Rosenthal: Yankees are “aggressively pushing” Joba and Hughes
By2:16pm: For what it’s worth, Rosenthal says the Phillies are not one of the teams pursuing Joba. The turntables have … turned.
12:49pm: Jon Heyman says the Yankees have been talking to teams about trading Hughes for a bat, and the Angels might have interest. “I think he could fetch quite a bit,” said a rival executive.
11:30am: Via Ken Rosenthal: The Yankees are “aggressively pushing” both Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes on the trade market. He hears Joba could be moved to an NL club soon. Another source says that while the team is talking about both, nothing is imminent. The non-waiver trade deadline is exactly three weeks away.
The Giants, Braves, and Phillies are among the clubs who are said to have interest in Chamberlain. There have been rumblings of a salary dump trade involving Michael Young and/or Carlos Ruiz with the Phillies, but that’s one I’ll have to see to believe. Buster Olney (subs. req’d) says the Yankees are planning to make Hughes a qualifying offer after the season and therefore seek something worth more than a supplemental first round pick in a trade. Plans change of course, and what the team says and what they actually do are two different things. It’s all posturing.
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I bet Joba is traded for international spending pool $$
Joba will be traded for a dry scroat.
Wow, that day has come. So depressing. But totally the right thing to do.
First sign that while they sure want to improve as a 2013 team over the next couple of weeks, they won’t do anything dumb to set them back over the next couple of years? …. Or am I reading too much into this?
I’ll always think of these two pitchers as one: so much unfulfilled potential, one year of successful bullpen pitching for each, and the trades the Yankees passed on insisting to hold to them.
Water under the bridge though, Nathan…my opinion is that we may not be able to get too much value back for them, unless we add prospects to our offer. Still, their current value to the team continues to diminish. Hughes may end up in the ‘pen before long, and Joba? At this point he’s just another b-list bullpen arm.
Eh. I’m not convinced that they’d get anything worthwhile back in a trade, and I’m not a fan of making a trade just for the sake of doing so.
i agree but agressively shopping doesn’t necessarily mean “giving away for free”
Oh I know that. I just don’t see a beneficial trade happening. If someone GM has a senior moment and wants to give up something of value, then sure. I won’t hold my breath, though.
You’re probably right. But it’s either trade them now for maybe something or let them walk in free agency for nothing.
Well, I would offer Hughes a QO, personally. So they’d be letting him walk for a draft pick.
What do you suppose a team will give up for a reliever with 3 months of control left, who has a 5.75 ERA and a 4.43 BB/9?
nothing. i have been the most adamant about how neither is worth anything. I’m just saying that shopping around now is par for the course and not to read too much into it.
I agree with you on Joba, but I feel Hughes is at least worth a supplemental pick if he’s picked up by a contender. What’s the value of a supplemental pick? Hell if I can figure that out.
Hughes has value. I can’t think of another pitcher except maybe Garza who is as good and on the trading block.
phil hughes is a below league average pitcher with basically the same stats as jarrod washburn when he got traded. man he net a huge return!!
7.4 k/9 ain’t nothing too great, high-ish whip, little over a hit per inning, flyball pitcher, homer prone, no out pitch, pending free agent. xfip right in line with era, babip not really in line for any correction hovering within 10-15 of his career. he has very little value unless a team gets desperate.
aaaaaaaaaaand a rival executive says he thinks he could fetch a lot….well, just goes to show why i don’t work in a front office apparently…or how few of them actually pay attention to statistics….i’m calling prospect shine/name brand on this one
He has a better K/BB than Justin Verlander.
And being a flyball pitcher is an awesome thing in the right stadium. In fact, the biggest difference between Hughes and Jered Weaver is their respective home parks (and that Hughes gets more Ks but that’s just minutia.)
They have to feel pretty good about Pineda if they’re shopping Hughes aggressively.
Or pretty bad about Hughes.
IMO this means a few things:
1. Yanks think Nova and Andy will be OK, and that Phelps can pitch a full season
2. If they trade Joba, Hughes goes to the pen
3. They arent going to tender Phil for $8mm next year and risk getting stuck with him
4. since these are their only real chips ( maybe Nunez or Gardner otherwise) there is a realization that the AA outfielders are neither valuable in the market or will they be of help next year
1. Okay.
2. Why? He has more value as a back end of rotation starter who will eat innings than a 7th inning guy.
3. Where is this 8mm number coming from? The number was $13/14mm last year and it will only rise.
4. They have two prime chips who are FA at the end of the year. Kuroda and Cano.
Regarding point #2, how does Hughes have more value as a starter who has been worse than league average than he has as a potentially good reliever?
IMO because starting is where the $ is at…just ask why Joba is always pissy about being in the pen
1.
2. Because he is the worst starter on the staff, and if Pineda is ready there will be a choice between he and Hughes for the 7th inning guy – Hughes had success in that role, Pineda is a starter with a future as a Yankee….Hughes goes to pen
3. Im assuming Hughes becomes a bullpen guy with starting potential, and will get paid as such
4. Kuroda has a no-trade clause, and Cano isnt getting traded…so the only trade-able pieces are Gardner and Nunez, where with Granderson back its conceivable that Gardner can be traded if the right deal is in place
3. it doesn’t work that way.
2. Hughes had success in that role 4 years ago. There is no guarantee that he will repeat his 2009 feat there. A slightly below average pitcher still has more value that than a potentially usefull bullpen piece in my opinion. Even if he manages a David Roberton esque 2009 3.30 ERA 3.05 FIP in the bullpen, his 2012 below average 4.23 ERA 4.56 FIP holds more value in WAR.
3. I dunno. If Yanks hang on to him, I would still offer a qualifier.
4. There is no legitimate info suggesting Kuroda having a no trade clause for 2013 except for one beat writer making a mention of it. It’s very wise to trade Cano for a haul rather than give him a 7 year deal or let him walk and get a qualifying pick.
It’s reasonable to assume Hughes would improve if moved to the pen. While I wouldn’t bet on seeing 2009 Hughes, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for him to be a solid setup man. I think that’s more valuable than a below average starter. Especially with our current roster, which has a lot of options for the back of the rotation.
I don’t think the team is ready to give up on the season, so Kuroda and Cano aren’t trade chips. They want to improve now.
Phil Hughes as a starter is a 2+ WAR player (look it up). He’s only 27 so he should be able to get a 3-year deal. A WAR is worth $5-5.5M over the next couple of years so he should be able to get perhaps $33M over 3-years, more or less, on the market.
First question– should he get a qualifying offer? Matter of opinion, since $11M (his market value) is less than $14M (qualifying offer). Given $14M/1 year vs. potentially $33M/3, I would expect him to go FA. However, it’s not like the Yankees would be in a huge hole if he accepted– he absolutely tradeable at equal value, especially if the Yanks are willing to eat $2-3M.
Second– would another team want him in a trade? Well, he is only 27, pitched 190+ innings last year, has a SO/K ratio over 3; and the only thing keeping his overall numbers from being quite good is that he is a righthander who gives up too many HRs while pitching half his games in Yankee Stadium.
If they get traded, I hope they get traded together to the same team. Would rather get a mid level prospect (Yanks may have to include someone else though, but perhaps not) than 2 low level prospects.
Hopefully they find a team interested in both. Not sure why San Fran who has a subpar rotation and good bullpen is interested in Joba and not Hughes. Maybe Yanks can find a way to package them both and get a mid level prospect in return.
The time to trade Joba was after the 2009 season, when they decided to take him out of the rotation. No one is going to give up anything of value to get him now.
I guess I could see an NL team in a pitcher’s park taking a chance on Hughes. He’s been good more often than not lately, so maybe they’ll write off his early season struggles and take a shot on him.
Realistically though, the only way I see trading those guys making sense is to deal with the roster crunch. They’ve got 2 spots for Hughes, Nova, Phelps, and Pineda. Hughes hasn’t shown himself to be significantly better than the others, and he’s the only one not under contract next season.
I guess another option is trade Hughes & Joba to free a little payroll space so they have room to trade for someone with a big contract.
Watch them both leave and be awesome.
I feel like it’s almost inevitable.
Not Almost inevitable. It IS inevitable.
wouldn’t be surprised at all to see Hughes flourish playing for some NL team with a bigger ballpark.
It’s very likely to happen, a fresh approach with Joba might make him a better player (or not, but you know).
Hughes in a fly ball park will be better.
Not going to lose sleep about either of them though, they have been here long enough and at some point you just have to let them go.
Yeah, kinda sums up my feelings.
Put Hughes in Oakland or Seattle (or San Diego) and maybe a few more of those nearly endless 0-2 foul balls get caught and a couple of dingers stay in the stadium.
Yeah, but so what? They are who they are. Joba is a bit of Diva and needs to go where he can be treated like a Rock Star instead of being third fiddle (or 4th or 7th) in the pen. Hughes is a RH fly ball pitcher. The Yankee Stadium is literally the worst ball park for him to pitch in. They’ll both go have success somewhere else, but they probably aren’t going to be much better than they’ve been here.
IMO NY isn´t interested in prospects if they trade Hughes and/or Joba. The Dodgers have been rumored even after the Nolasco trade to still be in the market for SP.
Joba still even after an abysmal season to date could be an important acquisition for a contending team. He still has good stuff.
ALL contending western AL and NL teams are in the market for a SP and BP help.
What would be considered a good deal ?
Yanks need good hitters in the worst way. A cleanup hitter (Morales) a RF (Rios) a 3B (Young) and a C (Ruiz)???
They need young players who can help them going forward, not patches for what is shaping up to be a lost season.Hughes himself is worth a 1st round draft pick because he would most likely decline a qualifying offer and bring back a comp pick.
Morales is 30, which isn’t terrible.
which is irrelevant cause he is also a pending free agent
This fanbase acts like the Yankees have been basement dwellers for ten years with their Debbie Downer comments.
It’s definitely a “what have you done for me lately” crowd sometimes.
Especially with regards to Cashman, who you’d think did NOT put together 4 World Series winners. And ARod, who’s hit homeruns, but somehow never hit an important one for the Yankees (not even in the ’09 postseason).
This is interesting, because most people defending Cashman say he didn’t have control prior to 2005.
But for most of the late 90s, he just slid blank contracts over to guys that were developed/acquired by Stick (Pettitte, Jeter, Posada, Bernie, Mo, O’Neill etc.).
Since then? Huge massive contract to Arod (not his fault), huge contracts to Teixeria, Sabathia, and Burnett. One ring and a giant pile of stink in 2013 with not much help on the way.
A fanbase’s mood corresponds to its team’s performance relative to the expectations that have been set. People do not react to things in a vacuum. The Yankees over a very long period of time have set extremely high expectations, expectations that they are failing to meet this season. Expecting people to not react negatively to that is to expect them to behave contrary to human nature.
Some people take that way too far, obviously, but calling people spoiled is pretty useless in my opinion. We are ALL spoiled. If we had to live for even a week in conditions from 5,000 years ago every single one of us would bitch incessantly.
A lot of high school kids off for summer break who have known nothing but success.
I fully expect this post to blow up the site.
I think the Giants would pursue Hughes, they have caught lightning in a bottle before. I’d love to see the Yankees go after Pablo Sandoval.
Ugh, I would not even swap Hughes for Sandoval. Dude has a 89 wRC+ and .295 this year and is owed $8.25 next year. Unless Giants pick up half of his salary, I would stay far far away.
Actually, this may be a perfect opportunity to get Ichiro’s $6.5 mill of our hands for 2013. Giants wanted him in the off season. I’d fully endorse Ichiro, Joba + Hughes for Sandoval.
Hughes still has good stuff. Only problem is getting thew third strike after quick two strikes. Would perform better out of the AL East. Capable in gthe AL West and Central. Even better in the NL
Not teh greatest of fits but I’ve always been intrigued by Belt. YS3 especially fits him as a LHH better than their park too. I’m sure they’d like to keep him though.
I know the narrative is that the Yankees cheaped out this off-season. But they are in fact carrying the highest pay-roll they’ve had in a while (ever?). Maybe the brass needs to dump some salary in order to take on other players? Hard to think the Yankees get too much in return for half a year of either of these guys.
They “cheaped” out when it came to upgrading the team in the offseason by letting Ibanez, Swisher and Martin walk. Then they shell out loads of cash for players like Vernon Wells, Kevin Youkilis an Ichiro (giving him a two year deal for what reason is anyone’s guess).
It’s not the payroll that I think bothers people. It’s the utter lack of direction and plain old bad decision making.
That wasn’t really my point at all. I get why people say that. But the reality is they might be maxing out on pay-roll. So even though Joba and Hughes are probably more useful to us in the second half then any B or C prospect we get in return for them, the Yankees might need to dump their second half salary, around 4.5 million combined, in order to make any significant additions.
Absolutely right! If Cashman is to get credit for Wells, Hafner and Youk being hot early he has to take blame for not resigning Ibanez and Chavez for a relative few dollars.
You can’t blame him for not signing Ibanez and Chavez – for all we know he talked to them, expressed interest and it was not returned. Chavez went somewhere with a better opportunity and lets not forget we were trying to sign someone who could play everyday until ARod returned and Chavez doesn’t fit that spot – granted rolling the dice with Youk was not any better of an alternative. Chavez may have wanted to move back to the west coast and turned down an offer. Same goes for Ibanez – at the time we didn’t know Grandy would be gone most of the year and Ibanez may have wanted to go back to Seattle and thought there was more playing time there.
Point being – yes you can blame him for signing shitty players but you can’t blame him for not signing someone who we don’t know even wanted to play in New York. That’d be like blaming Cashman for not trading for Stanton yet.
Would have preferred Ibanez over Hafner. Ibanez could DH and play the field a little if needed. I’m thinking a little more money would have got it done. Never heard anything to indicate Ibanez did not like playing here. He did indicate he would like to live in Seattle after retiring but this guy may still be a year or two away from retiring.
You’re dreaming if you think you can get Sandoval for Hughes or Joba. The Giants have scored two more runs then us this year, I don’t think they’d be trading their cleanup hitter for pitching and Ichiro.
Best case scenario is a team like the Giants would take Hughes & Ichiro’s salary for a mid level prospect and gets us out of Ichiro’s commitment next year.
You do realize that their clean up hitter is batting 258/.301/.376 with a 295 wOBA , 89 wRC+, has played shitty defense, is owed $8.25mm next year and has overall been below replacement level player this year?
plus he hasn’t been very durable past 3 yrs and missed a combined 99 games in 2011 and 2012 combined as well as a DL stint this year.
He’d fit right in on the Yankees.
At some point the Yankees went from acquiring guys on the upswing to picking up retreads and gambling that they’d bounce back or at least not embarrass themselves.
It’s called “buying low,” and Sandoval is not doing significantly worse this season than Swish did in 2008.
Was that a bad deal, too?
Hughes and Cano to the Angels for Kendrick, who has 3 years left after this one.
Trolling at its finest
He has two expensive years left ($9 mm/ year), not counting 2013. I think Robbie can fetch a better package.
Kendrick for Hughes and Cano? You’re crazy! Maybe, Hughes and Joba.
Hughes and Heathcott/Flores for Mark Trumbo
Chamberlain for Scutaro
or Chamberlain for Michael Young if Philly said yes
RELEASE HAPPY HAFNER TRADE PHIL FOR IBANEZ !!!
I still think a Hughes, Joba and Slade or even Adams for Young and Ruiz isn’t completely crazy. That gives them something for the present and potentially the future. Ibanez would be a great fit on the power front but not sure what Seattle would want, so maybe Seattle chips in another big leaguer close to free agency to get a better prospect like Campos as opposed to just another Noesi type fodder.
I’d do Hughes for Callaspo. Callaspo is a league-average 3B who is only owed USD 4 million next season. Hughes is redundant and demoralizes the fanbase.
Hughes for Pujols and Hamilton.
The Yankees won’t trade Hughes for a rental player. Hughes is an asset by way of his pending Qualifier, and draft pick compensation. It would be foolish to trade Hughes for anything less than a controllable asset in return. Whether that’s a solid vet with another year left on his deal, or a younger player/prospect, it will be for someone that is a controllable asset akin to the would be draft pick. A guy like Belt comes to mind, although I’m not sure SF would want to part with him. Hey, they traded Zach Wheeler for a rental of Carlos Beltran, so they do seem like the type who’d pay.
Joba for some international slot money is probably what to expect. Maybe you can get a half washed up bullpen arm, or position player, in return as well. What a shame at what Joba has become. He was an elite arm coming up. I’ve never personally seen a Yankee arm as electric as his, since I’ve followed the team back in the 1980′s. Verlander type stuff. That start in Texas in 2008 was the beginning of the end unfortunately.
Hughes is by no means an asset, you have to consider he can only receive a qualifying offer from the yankees to get a draft pick, if he is traded he can’t get a qualifying offer because the new CBA states that he has to play at least a full season with a team to fetch a draft pick compensation via a qualifying offer.
When SF traded for Beltrán, that part in the CBA didn’t exist, so, any rental player you acquired could give you a draft pick compensation IF you offered arbitration and they refused it.
Hughes’ value is basically null, unless Hughes agrees to a contract extension with his new team when he gets traded.
“I think he can fetch quite a bit” said a rival executive.
Did he just call Joba a dog?
LOL on this piece in MLB Trade Rumors:
“Another rival exec quipped that the Bombers might trade Joba Chamberlain for a pine-tar rag.”
Hughes still has good stuff. Only problem is getting thew third strike after quick two strikes. Would perform better out of the AL East. Capable in gthe AL West and Central. Even better in the NL
A Hughes for Pence deal seems to make a lot of sense. Yankees need an outfield bat and San Fran needs pitching. Hugh might not be AS awful in a bigger park.
I hope the team the yanks send joba to has a trampoline.
hughes and joba have served no purpose on the yanks this year. the sooner the yanks cut them loose, the better it will be for all concerned. hughes will always be a damn home run machine.
i would like to see Cano play under a manager who would make him run out grounders. i wouldn’t be surprised to see him simply head to the dugout after hitting an infield grounder. he hits, he fields… he just doesn’t run. the only players i would keep: Robertson, Logan, Jeter, CC, Kuroda, …. Heaven help us!