Jul
27

Sherman: Alfonso Soriano trade came from ownership

By

Via Joel Sherman: Team ownership pulled the trigger on the Alfonso Soriano trade even though Brian Cashman advised against it. “I would say we are in a desperate time. Ownership wants to go for it. I didn’t want to give up a young arm. But I understand the desperate need we have for offense. And Soriano will help us. The bottom line is this guy makes us better. Did ownership want him? Absolutely, yes. Does he make us better? Absolutely, yes. This is what [Hal Steinbrenner] wants, and this is why we are doing it,” said the GM.

Sherman reiterates that ownership was also behind the Ichiro Suzuki re-signing while Cashman preferred to spend the money on the combination of Russell Martin and Nate Schierholtz, who was seriously considering the team’s offer. Since officially taking over for George Steinbrenner in November 2008, the Hal-led regime has been behind the Derek Jeter contract, the Rafael Soriano contract, the Ichiro contract, and now the Soriano trade. Who knows what else. The trade was fine in my opinion, but I don’t like that ownership has made a habit of going over the baseball ops department’s head. That’s generally bad news.

Categories : Asides
  • dkidd

    look at how haunted cc looks in that yes video frame

  • forensic

    Good to know everyone in the front office is on the same page. Things keep looking better and better for the near future.

    • Gotthat right

      You hit the nail right on the head! What is this team doing isn’t the GM and the manager supposed to be talking and then going from there? Is there any other team in baseball run the way the Yankees are run? This team has been leaving a bad taste in my mouth for the past two year and it’s getting worse.

    • Wolfgang’s Fault

      If you accept the upsides you’ve gotten from the Steinbrenner regime that dates back to their dad, then you’ve gotta accept the bad w/the good. It’s always been this dysfunctional place where the ownership butts in whenever & wherever they deem fit. Most times, it just makes it harder, but the old man occasionally got it right, & I’ve never been a fan of the old man.

      Personally, I hate losing Corey Black because he’s young, throws hard, he’s competitive, & there’s plenty of upside. He could become a star or he could blow his arm out again; who knows. I wouldn’t have discounted him as a future starter, & of course, most project him as a closer type. Rather than deal for an over-the-hill Soriano, I would have called up Adonis Garcia & given the veteran Cuban ballplayer the opportunity without having to deal our 2010 4th round draft pick. Oh, well. Sorry Cashman couldn’t talk ownership down, but that’s life when you work for the NY Yankees!

  • Andrew

    I think the idea that Ichiro precluded them from paying Martin and Schierholtz is just wrong. Ichiro signed 18 days after Martin agreed with the Pirates. If there was supposed to be some plan to secure both those guys, it was screwed up long before Ichiro was in the fold, specifically when they let Martin walk. It’s easy to now take the “what could have been” approach and particularly easy for Cashman or one of his front office minions to give Sherman info that makes him and his decision making look good.

    • crawdaddy

      It was reported back when Martin was ready to sign that the Yankee ownership wouldn’t give Cashman the monies to sign Martin, thus, he was unable to make an offer to Martin.

    • trr

      I’m not a Cashman hater, but there have been many missteps since the end of last season. But yes, the real problem is the overall direction of the team. This is an old, old team. And what’s up with CC. Is he hurt? Forget about not being an ace, he got ripped last night

  • Joey

    Of course ownership wants another washed up big name former star. Cheapest way to generate buzz for the new age Hal-led Yanks

    • ajra21

      have to say, this isn’t good. i was fine with the soriano trade but i don’t like that the baseball ops guys aren’t running to show. if you don’t want to spend $189m next year, you aren’t allowed to force moves on your GM. it doesn’t go both ways. i though hank was gonna be a problem and was very happy when he was pushed aside. hal needs to take a step back.

  • Karl Krawfid

    These idiots need to sell the damn team.

    • lightSABR

      Anybody want to lend me a few billion dollars? I’ll be happy to let Cashman run things the way he wants.

  • Joey

    Cashman trying to rewrite GM history in saying that he wanted to bring back Martin and didn’t want to sign Ichiro. Must be trying to jazz up his resume for his next job with the San Diego Padres.

    • Andrew

      He’s started doing this a lot more, in terms of publicly saying whether he was for or against something. It’s one thing to have decisions/process leaked by Randy Levine or whatever front office moron you want to pin it on. But I don’t see the point of a GM coming out and vocally opposing moves. I also don’t see how it constantly gets played off as “well ownership is meddling, the problem is all their doing”. It’s a two-way street. Cashman wanting to pass the buck on culpability when things go wrong is as bad as non “baseball ops” people having a say in player moves.

      • Havok9120

        Soriano could turn out to be outstanding and he’s distancing himself already. We heard about him opposing Ichiro when Ichiro was playing decent. We heard he wanted Martin when Martin looked completely cooked.

        Soooo…what?

        • Cool Lester Smooth

          Exactly, Cashman is usually right and we should listen to him.

    • vicki

      this was my first thought as well.

  • Revan

    I retract all my statements in Cashmans lack of a plan for the future. Ownership is just stupid as hell.

    • ajra21

      agreed. i’ve always had a lot of condfidence in cashman. the odd decisions that have occurred over the past few years can’t be traced back to him:

      a-rod contract
      soriano
      ichiro re-sign
      martin non sign

      hal needs to remember who he is and what his role is: put up the money and shut up. the best owners always do this. he really shouldn’t inspire to be his father.

  • NUMBAH 1

    Michael Kay better come at me with moar than just pea shooters, back aftah this.

  • Need Pitching & Hitting (but mostly hitting)

    Further evidence that it’s time for Cashman to go.
    If they aren’t listening to him, what’s the point if him being there?

    • forensic

      Maybe no one else is willing to jump off a building every year?

    • lightSABR

      Ha. Wait – so it’s Cashman’s fault our owner’s a moron?

      Maybe ownership would listen more to a different GM, but I doubt it.

  • crawdaddy

    For his sake, perhaps it’s best for Cashman to go then certain Yankee fans can see for themselves who was the real problem with this organization.

    • first name only male – Retire 21

      Well stated, but the counter argument to that of “Cashman sux!!!1!11″ can also be quite compelling.

  • Tom

    There was also speculation that the Yankees were the ONLY team Soriano approved waiving his 10/5 rights for. (It was Nick Cafardo so who knows, he might just be trying to take a shot at the Yankees)

    So it appears as though the Yankees had a ton of leverage. Black is not a top prospect but as Theo/Hoyer were eager to simply get him off the roster and save some money and they had virtually no leverage, I wonder if the Yankees even needed to give up Black.

  • gazza UK

    Watching every game in UK and only getting to 6 or 7 games a season doesn’t allow me to vent where necessary.

    I feel helpless to ball at the hapless idiots and spoilt rich boys in charge. No plan, no patience no idea. Sell the team and fast, you don’t know what your doing. The A Rod circus is undignified and although this is a mistake of the past and injuries are a factor, you gotta expect better leadership.

    The financial mistakes can’t be rectified by frugal strategies in the interim period, you have to spend to transition into a better period where you can put mistakes behind you.

    I will still be staying up all night to watch the Bombers though, Go Yanks always.

  • Tom

    Also, even if this isn’t on Cashman, the guy needs to heed his own advice he gave to ARod and just shut the F up.

    He has basically sent a broadcast message around the league that if you don’t like a trade proposal from me, don’t take that to mean you can’t still make the deal with the NY Yankees.

    In trying to deflect blame on some of these moves, he’s making it known how teams can exploit the Yankees. Don’t like the Cashman’s offer? Just call up Hal or Randy or whoever. He just undercut a ton of his credibility and leverage on future trades. It’s one thing to do this with FA’s but to discuss trades like this is just dumb.

    • Jonathan

      Do you really think agents/gms haven’t known this forever? The front office keeps making awful decisions and then tying cashman’s hands. This isn’t a remotely new thing. I hoped after enough terrible moves backfired he could get the total control he was laughably and supposedly given for coming back 6 years ago but they just keep going and lord knows what other good moves have been stopped and bad moves not made public or unable to happen.

      • mike

        i wonder since cashman is spouting off about the moves he was forced to make…can we safely assume that Hafner over Ibanez, the embarassing bench, the lack of a RH bat and the inability to produce a minor league player is his fault??? or they cannot draft to save their lives, but somehow save their jobs? or that if other teams didnt cut/drop players where the yanks had no players capable of playing a position yet assumed their salary with Hal’s money – players like Bosch, Wells, Overbay – the yanks would be far worse off???

        cashman wants to be a small-town GM… where he and all his brainiac GM’s can sit around and remember the times they identified “Kelly from the Mariners”, or “remember Aaron Small” rather than having to defend their big payroll.

        cashman is a small man, and this job has always been too big for him – the yanks ownership has never respected him (which IMO is half the reason Big Stein liked him) and so the yanks are stuck with a petulant GM.

        Wonderful

        • Bavarian Yankee

          … stopped reading at “Hafner over Ibanez”. I mean really? Do you really blame him for taking Hafner over Ibanez? Wow.

          • Jonathan

            Yeah, that’s 100% hindsight and the stuff after gets even worse. There is absolutely zero logic behind anything said in this post. Has this guy completely forgotten that it was known that the FO completely tied Cashman’s hands in the offseason and wouldn’t let him basically spend any money or do much of anything until the injuries hit (between re-signing Kuroda/Pettitte/Rivera and the desperation moves to fill in for injured players, when there were still glaring holes)? They took an already bad habit of trusting the guys who’s job has nothing to do with evaluating talent vs the guys getting paid millions to do it and then added a completely stupid budget plan with zero planning on top of it. We can all sit back and say the injuries killed this team but regardless of how they finish this year, our possibly missing the playoffs is an entirely different story than a FO that is destroying the Yankees about as quickly as you possibly could at a time when rebuilding through FA is the hardest it’s been in a VERY long time. Everyone says they have no direction but I think the direction is VERY clear: Make a bunch of money and win if you can but decisions are no longer based off baseball talent and winning first and foremost. It’s extremely arrogant to think that you can somehow trick a fanbase that knows what a real winner looks like into fulling investing into a team of a bunch of castaways and former big names with also former big production and I have no reason to think this year is the exception. They look like they’re going to just keep doing this. They’ve completely broken a style and plan of attack that has worked for almost 20 years straight. Incredible. Incredible that they do it at the worst time when their current stars are all on the decline, with injury problems and making a ton of money they wouldn’t be making without ownership going over Cashman’s head and a time with very few options on how to bring in talent. Is there any doubt McCann would be a Yankee next year if this was 2 years ago? Absolutely dead perfect fit and I bet they don’t even sniff that deal.

            • Geez c’mon

              Ditto and by ditto I mean ditto….spot on good sir

            • ExitCashman

              What’s disturbing is the way Cashman cherry picks only certain deals that went south to highlight the control of the Steinbrenners:
              Whose idea was it to spend $12 million on Youkilis? Why was Hafner brought in… period? He can’t even play a position. Another $13 million in Wells in desperation because someone’s idea of a RH bat was Matt Diaz? A backup to Texeira of Dan Johnson?
              Dont blame Hal for this. Other teams would love to have $25 million to dump on two useless vets like Youkilis and Wells. Even $12 million for one season is more than San Diego has to spend. They wouldn’t spend it on Youkilis.

              • Bubba

                Reality doesn’t factor into your assessments, does it? Wells was a move made at the end of spring training (a great time to pick up quality pieces btw) after our two best power bats went down with freak injuries. It was supposed to be a short term move as both were supposed to be back before the ASB. How many quality free agent 3Bs wanted to sign on for a one year deal where they would only start for half a season? I’ll wait while you come up with that list.

                • Jonathan

                  Thank you. I have absolutely nothing to add as you summed it up perfectly. They just cherry pick small things like that and take it out of context. We all thought Youkilis and Hafner would get hurt, but it was also thought they’d hit while they were healthy and by the time they went down for good our real team would be back. Well that actually was really close to happening before all of the setbacks went insane.

                • Jonathan

                  Thank you. I have absolutely nothing to add as you summed it up perfectly. They just cherry pick small things like that and take it out of context. We all thought Youkilis and Hafner would get hurt, but it was also thought they’d hit while they were healthy and by the time they went down for good our real team would be back. Well that actually was really close to happening before all of the setbacks went insane. Plus obvious and ignored lack of better options AFTER THE ENTIRE OFFSEASON WAS TAKEN OUT OF CASHMAN’S HANDS. Of course it’s tough to get guys on 1 year deals at the end of Spring Training. That’s why you don’t go to the Winter Meetings with your thumbs up your ass. You build the team in the offseason. It’s ironic that if they would have just let Cashman build the team he wanted they wouldn’t have had to spend all that money on bad replacements at the last minute. They don’t exactly trade Mike Trout in the last week of Spring Training…

  • Bavarian Yankee

    the good news just keep on coming. The next fan confidence poll will be interesting.

  • Laz

    If you are going to hire someone to build the team, and also hold them responsible for the the team’s record, then you shouldn’t also be going over their head like this.

  • bring back the bullpen car

    Like father …like son.. Its genetics ..Same DNA to get involved in issues they have no expertise in…

    • Jack P

      Lol what makes you think George had no baseball expertise? Thats a fools thing to say, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

      • Cool Lester Smooth

        It was probably all of the decisions he made in the 70s and 80s.

  • Joey Vegas

    So Cashman was just going to do nothing? At least ownership is trying to make things happen. He’s busy keeping ARod off the field. Time for Cashman to put up.

    • nycsportzfan

      I agree with you. Were only 3.5games outta a WC spot, with jeter and granderson on the horizon. Lets go for it! Its a long shot Black makes the bigs and is impactful anyhow. Granderson, Jeter, and Soriano, along with Gardner, Cano, and Ichiro, is very solid indeed.

      Also, maybe the yanks can add one more bat? I was wondering if the Braves would go for a Gattis for Hughes trade, straight up? it would make sense for both sides, i think. Were not far off from having a decent 1-9 lineup.

      When Grandy and Jeets return, this will be the lineup most likely.

      1). Jeter SS
      2). Ichiro RF
      3). Cano 2B
      4). Soriano DH
      5). Granderson LF
      6). Overbay 1B
      7). Nunez/Lillibridge 3B
      8). Romine/Stewart C (adding Gattis would be awesome)
      9). Gardy CF

      Nunez and Romine are both becoming solid offensive players recently as well.

      • Carlos Danger

        No way the Braves give up Gattis, who isn’t a free agent until 2019, for less than a half of season of Hughes straight up. Maybe Hughes and Warren or Romine plus a couple low minors pitchers could get McCann but not Gattis, IMO. I appreciate the optimism, however.

        • nycsportzfan

          Teams give up players with short control yrs all the time if they are contending at the deadline. The braves are worried about 2013, and just lost Tim Hudson to a broken ankle, and must get a starting pitcher. The Royals and White Sox will try and rob ATL blind , knowing the situation they are in. It might be in the Braves best interest to make deal like the one i suggested And Hughes would have alittle more upside in the NL as well , and has been realitivley healthy the best couple yrs. Gattis isn’t exactly Mike Piazza. Hes hitting under 260 with modest RBI totals, and is more of a surprise then sure thing.

          I think you guys are over valuing him, especially with McCann still there, and them contending this season.

      • Bavarian Yankee

        Hughes for Gattis straight up? In what world does that make sense for the Braves? Throw in Nova/Pineda and a top 10 prospect and they might consider it.

        • Kosmo

          No sense ! Hughes for Pasternicky maybe yes.

          I can´t wait for the tandem of Soriano AND Granderson to have a combined 6-7 K day.

          • nycsportzfan

            There is huge sense for both teams. Braves need starting pitching very badly, and the yanks still need more pop offensivley, and both are fighting for the postseason. Gattis is good but not great. Hughes is decent but not great. Just like the rangers gave up controllable prospects for Garza, whos a FA after this season, other contending teams will do the same thing if they are contending. Its the way it goes in baseball.

            • Kosmo

              I just don´t agree. With McCann being a FA afer the season it makes zero sense for the Braves to trade Gattis. Gattis is a good versatile player he can C play COF if needed. Who will be the Braves starting catcher next season if Gattis is traded and McCann signs elsewhere? The Rangers gave up what exactly for Garza ? An overrated prospect in Olt and a couple of great unknowns with some potential.

      • Jonathan

        You seriously think Gardner is going to his 9th? Ichiro has an 84 wRC+ and Gardner has a 111 wRC+. This is:

        Jeter: 39 year old SS coming off multiple leg injuries including a very serious one and basically not getting a Spring Training

        Ichiro: a seriously below average offensive player and VERY below average considering he’s a corner OFer

        Cano: Stud

        Soriano: Below .300 OBP cleanup hitters galore for this team. A good 7 hold hitter.

        Granderson: Stud but multiple lower arm/hand injuries could take more time to recover than we expect. If 100% healthy he hits cleanup for me.

        Overbay: 12 XBHs in the last 2 months for a lefty 1B in YSIII is inexcusable.

        Nunez/Lillibridge: It’ll actually be Nix but either way it’s still a utility infielder at best and a minor leaguer in reality.

        Romine/Stewart: AWFUL

        Gardner: Very pleased with him. No real complaints besides the well known SB issues so far; although I don’t expect it to become a recurring problem.

        That’s 4 or maybe 5 average hitters. And it’s not like the others are all really close.

      • ajra21

        ichiro should not be hitting second when gardners hitting ninth.

  • Carlos Danger

    Why would Cashman even speak publicly about this? I manage a 3MM dollar business and if corporate tells me to do something, I do it. I may complain to my supervisor about it but never to people below me. Cashman should take his own advise, him and A-Rod aren’t that different IMHO.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Seriously. And he didn’t even seem to have a huge issue with it.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    “I really don’t have a problem with it, and think its completely reasonable, but it was their idea.”

    Uh, thanks, Brian, for giving the armchair management consultants on here material to probably form such a rich lather with that I’ll be able to shave for weeks. Just STFU already. You have good ideas too, Brian. Really, you do.

    Who cares. Whoever thought of it, I thought it was a good idea.

    • Carlos Danger

      I’d have preferred Rios, but even with a .250 average that makes Sori the third best hitter by average on the team. These troubled times call for troubled solutions. They would have had to give up more to get Rios and I’m not sure how much salary the CWS would have ate, presumably not 75% unless the Yanks included some more talent, like one of the upper minors catching prospects and a young arm in the upper minors. All told, I think Sori was a good deal for the Yanks.

      • Jonathan

        Rios was a non-starter. He wouldn’t agree to a trade to the Yankees so they never discussed it.

        • HateMclouth (formerly I’mVernon)

          Its been reported that Rios was never asked by CWS ownership about a trade.

      • Jonathan

        Or so we thought…

  • Carlos Danger

    The plot thickens, from Alex Rios…
    “No, it is not true at all because if I was asked I was willing to waive my no-trade clause to go to the Yankees,” Rios told ESPNChicago.com. “It hasn’t been brought to me at all but I never turned a deal down to New York.”

    • Kosmo

      I read that also. I wonder who is getting their wires crossed ? I whole heartedly believe Rios.

  • Anthony

    I have no issue with getting Soriano. We traded a kid from A-Ball. He’s years and years away even if he does make it. We are what 4-5 games back in the WC? I think you owe it to the fan base to try and make the team better and give us an offensive boost. We all watch the games and realize we need something. Wells is shot since his hot April start , and Hafner at this point should be DFA. He’s totally lost and is a shell of himself from
    the Cleveland days. You wouldn’t like it 1 bit if Hal said just wait till next year when we gotta trim more payroll so ….at least they are trying. Bad injury year everybody. And send CC for an MRI will ya.

  • The Other Sam

    “ownership has made a habit of going over the baseball ops department’s head.”

    This is why I remain a 4 every week on the confidence poll. I have no confidence in Hal’s either do everything on the cheap or spend foolishly antics. His job is to employ knowledgeable operations staff and sign the checks. He needs to stop trying to play GM.

  • http://Riveraveblues Austinmac

    The ultimate problem is management continues give up youth for age. Will Black be anything? Who know, but guys who throw 95-97 don’t grow on trees. Now, we have three old outfielders for next year and the ever so precious money given to them rather than someone who can help give the team a future.

    • anthony

      dont do the trade bc your tired of giving up young players? this isn’t big George of the 80/s trading Buhner for Phelps…the kid yeah throws hard. but you got to give up something to get something…was basically a salary dump. don’t bla,e ownership for trying to do something. if they stand pat and tell you wait till next year are you gonna like that? no you wouldn’t. no win situation..if you want people to watch the games and let alone pay big $$ to see a game you have to have product on the field to watch. Cruz, Romine, Adams, Hafner shall I go on…stay with what we have I don’t think so.

  • Shittyshittybangbang

    Why am I thoroughly perturbed by this ?! Wow, this bugs the hell out of me. “Non-baseball” people making baseball decisions. Feels like being on a ship, and all of a sudden realizing that no one’s steering the ship. Shit, makes it kind’a difficult to “root” for this team.

  • Mister D

    I imagine there’s a really good chance Cashman wants to do what a lot of us wish the Yankees would do; sell and restock.

    • http://Boobie Boobie

      Seriously. Yanks arent beating the rays or sox even or tigers in the playoffs. Sell now restock and move on. Next year looks pretty bleak too. Keep gettin old 250 hitters isnt changing this teams outlook this year or next

      • Mister D

        Not only that, there’s actual damage done by not selling. Assets like Cano and Kuroda (if he’ll accept) and Hughes and maybe Granderson could generate massive returns if made available. Playing out the string to miss the playoffs then getting only a couple comp A picks in return would be pretty awful.

        • Cool Lester Smooth

          Hughes isn’t going to bring back anyone better than a supplemental pick.

  • Shittyshittybangbang

    Cashman – “best thing to do is to knock it all down, and rebuild. It’ll be painful, and might take a couple of years, but we’ll be stronger and better suited to make a W.S. run.” Hal – “you fuckin’ joking, right ?! We’re The motherfucking Yankees ! The only thing we’ll rebuild is the stadium in 30 years ! Now get the fuck outta my office. Oh yeah, one more thing, go get me Soriano from The Cubs, and I don’t care what it takes.”

    • http://RAb yankees76

      what the hell is everyone whining about! Im frickin glad Hal had the mindset to do something! I mean i dont think sitting around on your hands waiting to fall further behind because of a lack of bats is the answer either! i mean damn, getting soriano for this year and next to help us for 7 8 million isnt by any means a bad deal. We had to do something to get some help and cashman said himself he needs management to help him pull the trigger on trading prospects! I mean corey black for soriano you really shouldnt need help on that one cash!

      • Jonathan

        HE’S THE REASON WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING IN THE FIRST PLACE! If we had Swisher and Martin back on the reasonable contracts they signed compared to what Ichiro/Stewart are puking up it’d look a lot better. Plus, who knows what trade options or other things Cashman wasn’t allowed to do this offseason. Hal is the one who single-handedly put in a budget that made zero sense and stopped us from building our offense. So hooray for Hal!

        • The Other Sam

          This exactly. Hal screwed up the offseason and now he’s supposed to get credit for this woefully inadequate band aid??

          He needs to back off and let Cash do his job. He’s making decisions based on money, not on winning. And when he does spend, he spends foolishly. Hal’s motivation is suspect and his execution clearly awful.

      • Mister D

        Even if Soriano for Black isn’t a bad trade value wise, its a bad indicator of where this team is headed. That’s the issue.

        • Cool Lester Smooth

          What does it indicate? That we’ll continue to make good trades?

    • Bavarian Yankee

      Levine – “I have to agree with Hal. Our teams isn’t old, it’s very experienced. It’ll pay off in the end. Now let’s get some more experienced players!”

      :D

  • John R

    Putting aside the fact that the Yankee GM feels the need to constantly identify what moves he handled personally and what moves his boss wanted, which just seems somewhat unprofessional and unique to Cashman, my question is, what was Cashman’s plan? I mean, he knows that, n a trade, the other team wants something in return, right? “I didn’t want to give up a young arm.” Seriously? You didn’t even want to give up a kid in A ball who the organization doesn’t consider a real prospect? Who, exactly, would he consider trading? I mean, if a no-name A-baller is a deal breaker it essentially means everyone is untouchable. And I like how everyone keeps saying “oh, ownership has approved horrible deals” but that ignores the fact that Soriano saved the Yanks you know what when Mo went out last year and even Ichiro has been one of their few somewhat productive hitters. I don’t completely buy the “I wanted Martin” line from Cashman, especially since Sherman says Cashman wanted to spend money on Martin AND Shierholtz. Sooooo, he expected Mertin to sign for…..$3 a year?
    I’m no a fan of Hal or any of the Yanks front people but, in this case, I agree with them. They shouldn’t have to step in to convince their GM to give up an A-ball prospect for a much-needed bat.

    • ExitCashman

      Agreed. Cashman could have signed Martin for one year at (I believe) $9 million or less. Would have been better value than Youk, Hafner, Wells, etc.

  • Bo Knows

    Hal is just like George, overruling Cash to do studpid useless trade

    • Cool Lester Smooth

      This wasn’t a bad trade, though.

  • Jacob the OG

    Sounds to me like cash is ready to flip the script to next season but the big guys did not like the fans talking shit about them so they swung a deal for another aging star. Don’t get me wrong I like the idea of Soriano but not how it went down.

  • paulc

    none of this is on Cashman. Hal and his minions are screing this team up. Arod contract-all on Hal. dumb butt. Resigning Ichiro-Hal. Cash wanted Martin back, Nate kid, and some other role players. Hal and idiots are making moves that are sending us to crap heap. Cash is the best GM out there!

    • mt

      Then Cashman needs to resign or leave when his contract is up.

  • crawdaddy

    Cashman probably wants to rebuild, but ownership doesn’t want to do it.

  • mt

    It is unusual that we always seem to find out which trade Cashman did not approve – he comes across as passive/agressive as Arod has been about his quad – meaning – he lets you know that he wasn’t for it and then goes overboard making sure you know he has no ultimate problem with owners?Levine going over hsi head since ownership wants to win SO badly.

    If I were Hal, I would tell Cashman to STFU or resign if he can’t deal with it. I am not in favor of Hal meddling and believe it hurts the Yankees but at the end of the day he is the owner and I don’t feel he should be exposed like this every time Cashman disagrees.
    Why can’t that be kept internal?

    Cashman basically is doing the same thing Arod is doing with his quad issue when Arod ran to WFAN right after he was on a conference call where everybody including Arod agreed to a rehab plan – (so he’s telling us “yes, I agreed to the rehab plan but I am making sure you know I did not really like it”).

    Similarly Cashman wants to make sure you know that he was not in agreement so that if it blows up his GM friends and media will all know he was not personally to blame.

    Maybe Hal and Cashman have an agreement that when owners/Levine go over his head Cashman can be allowed to maintain his “credibility” and make it knoiwn that he personally did not do it. Maybe Hal agreed to that – strange way of doing things but stranger things have happened.

    (To be fair Cashman has said that he wants this to be known because he might have alreadybeen telling GMs something – for example, he may have told ChiSox no way he does a Rios trade if he has to pay more than $3 million (for exampel) total and then that same day Yanks do a Soriano trade for a worse player where Yanks pay $6.8 million, making Cshman look like a fool or liar. I can understand it but there has got to be a better way (either the preferred – Hal doesn’t meddle at all – or Cashman chills out and realizes that GMs know separate transactions are separate and Yanks can change their minds even if Cashman has been saying one thing for weeks.)

    • crawdaddy

      Remember, that Sherman is getting a lot of his information from other sources outside of the Yankee baseball operations.

  • nsalem

    Maybe what Cashman was trying to say in a veiled (but not veiled enough to not get his point across) way was that if we had signed Schierholtz and Martin we would not be in the desperate situation that we are in now to have to give up a good prospect for a fading Soriano.

  • crawdaddy

    Cashman was saying he wanted to sign Martin back in March/April.

  • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

    Like father…

    Nothing about the way all this is unfolding makes me higher than say a 4 on the Confidence Poll scale. I don’t mind acquiring Soriano in the grand scheme of things, but the larger context, seemingly haphazard plan, messy mixed messages, and messier product on the field seriously gives me pause.

  • Jmpnyy

    I think both the owner and GM are to blame but the wild card is that dolt Levine who thinks he knows player personnel but should stick to dog shows. Just looking at the guy gives me the impression he is a sleazebag amongst other things.

  • emac2

    Ichiro isn’t even a small portion of the problem. He had a couple of bad weeks to start the season and has been just fine since. He must really piss the media off. Great defense from a player hitting 280 for this team and people complain? At 7 mill a year? Are we not over WW2? Get a clue people.

    Soriano wasn’t a problem. He cost a little too much but had real value and turned into a first round pick.

    You can’t fix a baseball team by getting one player good enough to make up for a bunch of unqualified guys. Players have to stay within themselves and do their jobs counting on everyone else doing theirs even when they don’t. When A player like Adams comes up and basically has to hit for average and power while throwing in plus defense from day one you lock yourself into vets and prayers instead of ever promoting a kid.

    My issue isn’t so much with ownership getting to make some decisions but with the lack of a comprehensive plan. If Hal wants to make a move it should be new money he brings to the budget.

    BTW – Martin still sucks and wouldn’t have made a difference this year. Different does NOT mean better.

    • Jonathan

      Are you freaking kidding me??? Ichiro has an 84 wRC+ this year playing in a great hitters park and playing a corner OF spot that is usually used to get offensive production. He’s 16% worse than the average hitter including backup catchers and shortstops etc playing in an offensive position/ballpark. PLUS, he doesn’t even play great defense anymore. He’s just above average and it’s negated a lot by playing in a tiny RF. They gave a TWO year deal to a guy for his 39-40 seasons when he hadn’t been even really close to an average hitter for two entire seasons before that in a market with probably 10+ better OFers available AND let their superior and younger RFer walk to Cleveland and passed on a very small deal for Russell Martin who is basically 3 times as valuable than Ichiro this year (fWAR of 1.2 vs 3.4. There were 2 starting catchers available this offseason and both could have been had for 1 year but we spent the money on a position that was infinitely easier to fill AND filled it with a worse player. Not just a worse player and hitter for their positions, but compared head to head a worse player and hitter. Do you do anything but glance at a batting average to determine how good a player is? Russell Martin is walking well over double the % that Ichiro is. He hits for considerably more power and has a 115 wRC+. So 84 wRC+ in an offensive position on a two year deal for an old guy with no recent success or 115 wRC+ in a defensive position on a one year deal for a young guy with actual recent success. And you still can’t figure out why people don’t think the Ichiro signing was a good move and why we wanted Martin back? This is one of the least insightful comments I’ve ever read.

      Let me break it down for you as easy as possible:

      Ichiro:
      ——-
      bad hitter
      above average defender
      above average base runner
      no recent success
      old
      easy to fill position
      2 year deal

      Martin:
      ——-
      above average hitter
      above average defender
      average base runner
      recent success
      young
      hardest or second hardest position to fill along with SS
      1 year deal

      So unless you’re some made scientist/mathematician who has figured out some new stat that says base running is the most important of all, even though Ichiro isn’t on base enough for it to really be that extremely valuable…Ichiro has NOTHING on Martin. Better base runner but not on nearly as often. That’s it. So out of the 7 basic categories he wins 1 and ties in one and gets destroyed in 5.

    • Cool Lester Smooth

      Hahahahahaa

      The Colbert-esque styling of emac2, everybody!

  • Bronx Bombers23

    Well at least this restores some of my trust in Cashman that he doesn’t want to continue adding aging vets to this already ancient team.

    This move reeks of Randy Levine, that sniveling Yes Man that tries to undermine Cashman at every turn. The odds of us making the playoffs are slim. It’s time to start looking at the future and getting younger players in here. Our 4 outfielders that are under contract for next year are Ichiro, Wells, Soriano, and Gardner. Think about that for a minute.

    We are not as good as the Fightin’ Showalters, and we are not as good as the Rays. Thinking we are going to leapfrog both of them into a playoff spot is seeing things thru pinstripe tinted glasses. It’s time to sell off what we can sell off, and look to remake this team.

    • The Other Sam

      Agreed, but do we really want Hal engineering that future? He needs to stop meddling.

  • jtb204812

    Yes, lets deflect more blame for Cashman….yawn. Soriano will NOT help this team since he is awful. He will do nothing but hit pop-ups and GIDP on weak, off-speed pitches away with an occasional HR. Wow, what an improvement from Cashman.

    • Jonathan

      All you would have had to read was the freaking title to know your comment was absurd. “Soriano trade came from ownership”. That means it didn’t come from Cashman….so posting a comment making fun of Cashman for acquiring a player who won’t be much of an improvement, in an article that’s entire purpose was to explain that it wasn’t Cashman behind the trade, shows excessive drug use or zero reading comprehension skills..or both.

  • bpdelia

    sigh. Man I’m a guy who is a realist. I think Cash has made good moves and bad moves. I think he is one of the top ten GMs and generally I don’t blame him for prospect flame out.

    All that said this squicks me out. It like my kids. “I didn’t do it it was him.”. I am quite sure it’s true. Because I don’t think any person on earth expected stewvelli to be an adequate Martin replacement and because the Martin contract was so clearly reasonable.

    Still it’s nasty. These revelations are supposed too be in his ghost written autobiography “Cashman. Money, madness, and glory in the Bronx”.

    I can only think he may be considering leaving if things don’t change.

    I will say for once I think ownership was right. The team is unwatchable and something needed to be done. Black is an acceptable price and this should have been done weeks ago,

    • The Other Sam

      You’re assuming it was Cash doing nothing vs. Hal doing something and we don’t know if that was the case. Seems unlikely.

      You want to say ownership was right, but keep in mind it was Hal’s failure in the offseason that got them into this mess in the first place and this move amounts to an inadequate band-aid. Knowing that, what does ‘right’ mean?

      Hal needs to let baseball ops do their job.

  • OldYanksFan

    Has anyone done a ‘strength od schedule’ analysis?
    I love to see ‘our road ahead’, as opposed to Boston, Baltimore, Cleveland and Texas. I’m guessing those are the teams fighting for the 5th PS berth.

  • Dalek Jeter

    So right now “ownership” is responsible for two moves I cannot stand: the (Rafael) Soriano contract and the Ichiro contract, and one move that I actually like in the (Alfonso) Soriano deal. As for the Jeter contract, I’m not a huge fan of the number of years, but hey…in this case it’s Derek fucking Jeter, you make an exception.

    • Manny’s BanWagon

      Yankees likely don’t make the playoffs last year without Soriano stepping in for Mo and pitching great. That move worked out just fine.

    • Dan

      With Jeter, it really wasn’t a bad deal. He suffered a freak injury lat season. But they get him back at $9 million next year, that could be a bargain.

  • anthony

    Hal to a degree wants to do Soriano deal but will make life harder on Cashman to get under the 189 for next year. We need offense at this point We didn’t give up high end players to get Soriano so I really don’t have a beef. DFA Hafner at least. Granderson will feel like we got him via trade in a few weeks so. A-rod is done. Give him a life sentence and move on. Pineda waiting in wings another possible boost from him. But at this point we need to score runs. Staying with current group of Cruz, Lillbridge, Romine and Adams isn’t working. Give them credit for trying to improve without sacrificing our future.

  • http://rab yankee76

    The 3 moves that hal made overruling cash has helped or made us better! Hal obviously thought something needed to be done because cash was i dont know, sitting on his hands, waiting, which would have done no good. Everyone is saying Hal is strapping cash but if that was the case why is he spending on ichiro, and the 2 soriano’s. That doesn’t sound like holding him back from spending, because there were cheaper options if the money was a problem! And yet cash did nothing! The problem is cashman is waiting for someone to be givin to him thats a good player for nothing but now a days thats not gonna happen, because people including cash don’t want to part with prospects for nothing and definitely not to the yankees! So if anything is gonna happen cash needs to stop waiting and thats what Hal is doing.
    So yes good for Hal cause if not we would have been shit out of luck for a closer last year,as well as having one of our best bats possibly 2 this year!!

    • Jonathan

      This thread is TOXIC with endless ridiculous comments. The Soriano deal was HORRIBLE. He could opt out at anytime he was good and stay anytime he was bad for a ton of money. He didn’t have another suitor and without any leverage got a ridiculous deal in years, money and structure on a team with already the greatest closer of all time. It’s true Soriano was good in his second year but was below average in his first and even if it helped us to a degree, using that money on other players that were more of a need would have helped us more. And it’s already been announced so many times that it’s not funny that Ichiro was an ownership move that wasn’t baseball related and it was about him being Japanese, having the most outside shot of all time at 3000 hits by the end of the contract and his name. It had nothing to do with what he would do based on on-field value.

      And your entire comment is taken like all of this happened within the last week or a world where time doesn’t exist. The Rafael Soriano deal was before the 2011 season and nobody claimed Hal wasn’t letting Cashman spend or run the team. That started after the new CBA and the horrendous austerity budget plan. Then Cashman wanted Russell Martin, who has been about 3 times as valuable than Ichiro this year, when there was only 1 other starting catcher available and 10+ better OFers than Ichiro but Hal shut Cashman down basically this entire offseason and made that move. Cashman wasn’t able to do basically ANYTHING at the Winter Meetings. Do you really have no understanding of any of this?

      And as I’ve said before on this thread and others have said, yeah…whoopty freaking doo…Hal got us a decent hitter. IF HAL DIDN’T STOP CASHMAN FROM ASSEMBLING AN OFFENSE AND A TEAM IN THE OFFSEASON WE WOULDN’T HAVE TO GET SHITTY, LATE 30s OVERPAID FORMER STARS. If we re-signed Martin and either Swisher or a decent replacement then all of a sudden we have more than 2 hitters in the lineup and don’t have to take on 1.5 years of an old Soriano. Hal caused all of these problems and then threw an old dirty bandage on it. That’s like your dad stabbing you and then duct taping an old rag over the wound and you saying, thanks for the rag, dad!

  • yooboo

    I guess we can say a goodbye to not only Rivera but Cashman. Finding new GM will be difficult with the ownership overstepping.

  • RetroRob

    Is there a Soriano the ownership won’t pass on?!

    Ownership telling the GM to make certain deals is as old as baseball itself, especially in Yankeeland. What’s interesting is ownership doesn’t seem to care that Cashman continues to inform the world when he disagrees.

  • ExitCashman

    Cashman cannot be counted on as a judge of baseball talent:
    – Offered the Rangers Cano or Arias in the A-Rod deal. They chose Arias;
    – Thought Austin Jackson could never be a CF for NYY.
    – Thought Hughes and Joba were better than Kennedy.
    – Signed Feliciano for 2 years, $8 million even though he admitted that the Mets “abused him.” Feliciano never threw a pitch for NYY.
    – Signed Nick Johnson to replace Matsui, then repeated the mistake by signing Travis Hafner to replace Ibanez. Oh, and did I mention Youkilis? What’s this I hear about injuries and a youth movement?
    The list could go on. Have a nice trip to Seattle, Cash.

    • pinch hitter

      So a) the rangers are a lousy judge of talent too
      b) he thought Granderson could play CF for NYY
      c) Hughes and Joba were better than Kennedy — Hughes still is and Joba was till he got hurt.
      e) Who was it who signed Ibanez? Oh yeah, Cashman.

      • Jonathan

        lol thank you for that. I went to reply and you said everything I was going to say. Apparently ARod in his absolute prime while paying 2/3 or so of his salary isn’t worth Soriano and a decent middle infield prospect who has gone way beyond what anyone expected. Right now we’d cash in about the whole farm system to get that ARod deal again and several prospects in our system are more highly regarded than Cano was then.

  • Manny’s BanWagon

    if Cashman built up the farm system like he said he would so many years ago, there would be no need for guys like Ichiro, Hafner, A. Soriano, Wells, Youkilis and the rest of the crap they keep brining in.

    Ownership hasn’t traded away any good prospects like George did in past. The fact that the best young players they currently have are AAAA or bench guys like Adams, Romine and Almonte and 5th starter types like Phelps and Warren is all on Cashman.

    • The Real Greg

      That’s a very good point. Cashman has not shown the management that he has everything under control.

    • Jonathan

      Cashman has acquired and drafted a lot of really good and great prospects. Nobody can deny that. The problem is the DEVELOPMENT of them once they’re in the system and the medical staff. That’s not his job to develop players. He’s acquiring the talent.

      • Manny’s BanWagon

        What a dumb statement.

        Cashman hires the people to draft and develop the prospects so if they’re not doing a good job, again it’s on him.

  • JLC 776

    Great… team leadership can’t get on the same page and now it’s becoming public knowledge. Just what we need.

    This kind of crap is what drives my weekly ”4” in the confidence poll!

    • Manny’s BanWagon

      Yep.I’d bet that Theo is gonna bring a world series to the Cubs before the Yankees win another.

      • Cool Lester Smooth

        Yeah, Theo’s just a stud GM.

        I mean, we’re talking about the man who put together the 2008-2012 Red Sox here!

  • pc

    first hank and now hal are running the team into the ground by overruling the bb people, born with a silver spoon but not much bb smarts.

  • The Real Greg

    Well so far, three of the deals made above the station of Cashman have worked out okay.

    The Rafael Soriano deal worked brilliantly.

    The Ichiro deal has gone okay so far, although I have a feeling that the second year will be the determiner

    And the Soriano deal had to be done.

    SO who looks like the fool right now?

    • Jonathan

      The Rafael Soriano deal was HORRIBLE. They gave a guy with a major history of injuries and zero leverage a deal too long in years, money, and horrible in structure. He could leave whenever he was good and we had to keep him around if he was bad. That makes ZERO sense. On top of that we already had a dominant 8-9 combo. While Soriano was helpful in his second year, he was below average in his first and $22.5MM could have been spent on so much more than one good year of a reliever. The process was extremely stupid behind the move and the only redeeming value came out of pure blind, unforeseeable luck: Rivera blew out his ACL shagging fly balls and Robertson hurt his Oblique basically directly after it, otherwise we wouldn’t have needed a closer and without the saves he wouldn’t have been able to get a deal worth opting out of ours.

      Ichiro’s deal is atrocious and was from day one. In an OF market with probably double digit players better than Ichiro, you don’t give a guy a 2 year deal in his age 39-40 seasons who hasn’t had success in 2 full years. He’s been terrible so far at an 84 wRC+ for an offensive position. That money could have and SHOULD have been given to Russell Martin and a real RFer should have been retained (Swisher) or traded/signed for. We’re halfway through and it’s a disaster. On top of that the worst part is the process again was completely broken and it’s been admitted that he was brought in for his Japanese draw, his 3000 hit chase and NOT for his on-field contributions.

      So YOU look like the fool now.

  • The Real Greg

    And of course Cashman could have spent the money spent on Hafner somewhere else as well.

  • mustang(The Has Beens & Wannabes Bunch 2013)

    The one thing I don’t like is Cashman putting ownership out like that I have yet to see ownership do it to him and he made plenty of mistakes.
    Doing this does nothing, but bring more of the “Bitchass act” that seem to running ramped throughout Yankees land lately. (Reference A-Rod)

    • Mondesi

      I… agree with mustang. (dry heaves)

      It’s impossible for us to really know what’s going on, yadda yadda, all the other caveats… But that being said, this act is getting a little tiresome. Cashman is the GM and there are other people in the front office/management team that have some power. We get it. If he doesn’t like it, he should take care of it internally or get out, no?

      I suppose he could be using these public statements/leaks about who is responsible for certain moves to somehow pressure the rest of the front office to back off and let him stay in control of all personnel moves, but that would seem a little hypocritical for a guy who spent years enforcing a “no negotiating through the media” credo with regard to agents, etc.

      Every time he lets it leak to the media that he’s not “responsible” for some move, in some way, or sits in a press conference next to a new acquisition with a sad look on his face and makes it clear he didn’t want to make whatever move, I think it’s just unseemly for someone in his position and makes him look weak and somewhat whiny.

      If he doesn’t like the organizational structure he should do his job as well as he can and then leave. If I was in a hiring position with some other organization, I’d think twice about bringing in someone who acts this way. I don’t think he’s doing himself any favors with this act.

      (Thinks back to first statement in this comment.) (dry heaves) (vomits)

  • Mike

    Yup, ownership over ruling the GM.

    In other words…

    Cashman: Don’t blame me if this blows up.

  • VO III

    Whether or not the Soriano trade was a good one will not be known until the prosepect pans out or flops. That being said, is there another GM in any sport who throws his employer under the bus more than Cashman? This guy should be a “Bean Counter” for some accounting firm somewhere yet the Steinbrenners gave him the chance to acquire talent for the most storied franchise in all of sports… He should have been fired a long time ago. This trade was not that big of a risk and the rewards could huge why he had to cover his ass by saying he wanted no part of it is as slimey as it comes… Go be GM for the Astros Mr. Cashman and don’t let the door hit you on the way out!

    • Manny’s BanWagon

      This.

      Most overrated GM in sports. He has Benefitted from an incredible core of talent and an unlimited payroll.
      He’ll fade into obscurity once he leaves the Yankees.

    • Cool Lester Smooth

      Yeah, Hal Steinbrenner is definitely the good guy in this situation…

      • VO III

        Hal being the good guy or the bad guy in this situation matters not. You don’t throw your employer under the bus because he wants you to do something you disagree with. I have been told many times to perform an action that I thought was probably a bad idea. I would voice my opinion then and there and would follow orders whether or not I liked it. I would not then go bitch to the press or anyone else about it (well, maybe my wife). I would tow the company line. If I really had an issue with said action I would simply quit, bid my employer farewell and wish him luck without bashing him to anyone else. It is a totally classless action by Cashman… I guess we shouldn’t be surprised.