Aug
02

A-Rod considering plea deal, suspension may not come until Monday

By

Via Jon Heyman: Alex Rodriguez‘s camp is considering accepting a plea agreement from MLB that would keep him off the field until 2015, but they may are still seeking a more favorable deal. The league considers even a 150-game suspension to be light given their evidence. Ronald Blum hears A-Rod and the other players may be given until Monday to accept their deals, just in case you were worried this wouldn’t drag out any longer.

Meanwhile, Julie Brown reports the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Miami is now digging into Biogenesis. That could be a problem for MLB because Anthony Bosch would be unlikely to testify in front of an arbitrator (during an appeal) if he’s being investigated by the feds simply because he wouldn’t want to incriminate himself. The league promised they would put in a good word for Bosch as part of their agreement, but who knows how that far will go. Given all this talk about possibly banning A-Rod for life, I get the sense that any suspension that doesn’t keep him off the field until 2015 would be considered a loss for MLB. They backed themselves into a corner a bit.

I think we’re all sick of this Biogenesis stuff by now, but if you’re going to read one article on the subject, I recommend this one by William Rhoden.

Categories : Asides, STEROIDS!
  • JLC 776

    I wonder if the Yankees will find a way to send A-Rod to Single A for the weekend.

    Seriously though, MLB’s zeal to destroy The Yankees A-Rod does seem to have backed them into a corner. Now that the feds have shown an interest, this whole thing will be dragged out for years. Maybe we’ll even get a few players on the Biogenesis list to testify before congress and conveniently forget how to speak English.

    Won’t that be grand.

  • Nick

    I still don’t understand how 150 game ban (as stated in article) = A-Rod being out for all of 2014 (as stated in article). What am I missing? Surely MLB can’t just manufacture an artificial 212 game ban (or whatever) in order to cover the whole of this year and next?

    • King George

      It was my understanding that MLB can alter suspensions if they are taken as pleas. Ryan Braun got 65 games in his suspension. Nowhere did it state that 65 games was a listed punishment.

      • KeithK

        The 50/100/lifetime durations are for suspensions due to failing a drug test. The suspensions here are for evidence that points to drug use without a failed test (plus other stuff like obstruction). As I understand it MLB is not restricted to the 50/100/lifetime schedule for this kind of discipline although those numbers certainly provide a framework for what is reasonable.

        • King George

          Ahhh, that’s kinda what I was thinking but you made it more clear. Thanks, Keith. Good info. Interesting that MLB can set arbitrary lengths, but I guess that’s certainly their right if a player is coming to plea and accept a suspension.

    • trr

      I think in this case they can manufacture whatever both parties will agree to-

  • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

    You highly recommend an article pushing the point that it’s tempting to root for A-Rod?

    It’s not tempting. I’m not even a A-Rod hater. But it’s not tempting for anyone to root for A-Rod…unless you’re taking the stance that there’s no way in hell any of the tampering evidence is possibly legitimate. And that stance indicates unadulterated naivete.

    There’s a thousand other articles out there that you could have recommended before that rubbish.

    • Different Josh

      Its tempting to root for A-Rod because the MLB has made a mockery of the CBA and legal system that was agreed to , and is in place for situations like this.

      He didn’t even mention in the article how the MLB and reporters are making him into some sort of villain. “Worse than White Bulger, and Anna Benson.”

      A-Rod never failed a test, yet the MLB is trying to argue that he’s a lifetime user? That must be some good shit that he’s taking if it doesn’t show up anywhere.

      • Pasta Stumbling Sojo

        “That must be some good shit that he’s taking if it doesn’t show up anywhere.”

        Er, yeah, that’s the point. Bosch came up with stuff that would help his performance but not show up on tests.

        “A-Rod never failed a test, yet the MLB is trying to argue that he’s a lifetime user?”

        You don’t actually think that 0 failed tests means he didn’t do PEDs, do you? The evidence that he did is apparently strong enough that he and other players are talking major plea deals. There is no way A-Rod would agree to that if he in fact didn’t take PEDs. And A-Rod already admitted to doing steroids earlier in his career, so yes, it does look like he’s a lifetime user.

        • Different Josh

          Wait we’re arguing that Bosch is some super genius now? And Melky, Braun, and Colon don’t get that either? They all failed tests.

          A-Rod admitted to taking steroids while it wasn’t cheating. That shouldn’t factor into the legal decision at all.

          • Vincent Vega

            What isn’t a factor in a legal discussion is whether it was cheating or not. He admitted to breaking the law by taking steroids.

          • Pasta Stumbling Sojo

            I understand what you’re saying should and shouldn’t be part of MLB’s process, but I’m still not sure what you think actually happened. It sounds like you might think A-Rod didn’t actually do steroids after 2003. Is that what you think? If so, how do you explain his willingness to take a plea deal? And will you admit that you were completely wrong if we find out soon that he did in fact take steroids? I will admit that I’m completely wrong if it turns out there’s no convincing evidence that A-Rod took steroids.

            Or are you saying that A-Rod may have done steroids, but that drug tests are the only legitimate form of evidence that someone took them for the purposes of MLB imposing a suspension? Drug tests aren’t the only way to know if someone took steroids, either for the purposes of forming your own beliefs or for the purposes of levying a suspension. As we have found out many times over the years, there are lots of ways to take PEDs and still pass a drug test.

    • vicki

      did you read beyond the headline?

    • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

      Thanks for speaking for all people on earth! It really saves me the time I’d otherwise have to spend explaining my personal opinion and point of view!!

      Sigh.

      As it happens, not only do I increasingly view A-Rod’s story with sympathy and as a tragedy – despite it being one largely of his own making – but I believe in fact that in the fullness of time, especially if he never plays another game (whether via lifetime ban or effective life time ban) he will come to be seen largely as such.

  • King George

    Maybe someone can clarify, if MLB already has a laundry list of evidence against A-Rod from Tony Bosch then why does it matter if the Feds are involved or not? Ok, so he doesn’t testify. But doesn’t that evidence along with the multiple players who will be accepting the suspension provide enough credence and backing to punish A-Rod substantially?

    • Pseudoyanks

      Right, I was thinking Bosch has already incriminated himself. Wouldn’t the Feds subpoena MLB?

      • King George

        That’s exactly what I was thinking. At the very least, you’d think the Feds involvement really wouldn’t hamper A-Rod’s punishment. I would think they’re two separate issues at hand.

    • Il Cugino

      Didn’t they start the investigation because of the inclusion of high school kids being listed as clients?

      • King George

        Yes. That’s their main reason for involvement, which is why I’m unsure as to what the Tony Bosch-Alex Rodriguez relationship and the Tony Bosch-MLB players relationship and their respective punishments have to do with minors. It doesn’t appear to be part and parcel.

        • Il Cugino

          Then I’m with you on this one.

    • Betty Lizard

      “OK, so he [Bosch] doesn’t testify”–

      If “the evidence” is Bosch’s record, who will authenticate those records?

      Without Bosch’s testimony how could MLB defend a suspension in an appeal?

  • CONservative governMENt

    That article by Rhoden wasn’t really worth the click.

    ARod is a big boy with an expensive legal team and if he agrees to a deal it would seem to indicate that MLB does have credible evidence and he’s making a decision in his own best interests.

    • Il Cugino

      Bingo! The people on team A-Rod appeal are awfully kind to risk some else’s money for their curiosity, agenda and amusement.

      He knows what they got on him, as do his lawyers, and he’s smart enough to do the math. If it makes sense to appeal, he will. If not, he’s striking a deal.

      • Pat D

        Yes, I want my curiosity satisfied by having a bunch of rich people spend a bunch of money. Makes perfect fucking sense to me. Because then we’ll actually know what the evidence is instead of all of this endless speculation and rumor.

        I give a fuck about rich people having to spend their money in such a way. I want to know what these assholes know.

        • Il Cugino

          So you’re saying you want to know because you’re curious?

  • LK

    I am so tired of this story. I can’t wait for the day when PEDs are legal and we can all stop talking about this.

    • Il Cugino

      PEDs are legal with a prescription.

    • trr

      LOL, you’re gonna be waiting a looooooooong time, LK

    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadgeek Roadgeek Adam

      I feel you on that one. Even WABC/WCBS/WNBC/WNYW have people reporting at Yankee Stadium.

      It is not worth the energy and hopefully MLB realize it will never end.

  • Greg

    hey Mike, maybe if Arod isn’t busy, he could host this morning’s chat?

  • Kiko Jones

    Rhoden’s piece in the NYT: on point.

    If A-Rod gets a lifetime ban, he’ll obviously never play again. And if he accepts a ban for the rest of 2013 and all of 2014, it’s also very likely he’ll never play again, by virtue of by then being a 40 year old of deteriorating health who will have missed 2 seasons. And while he might think he has a chance of somehow rehabbing his image, the undeniable truth is that the cloud of PED use has forever clouded his legacy. So, he’s got a no-win situation on his hands. Pure and simple. But he’s a grown man and this is the bed he made for himself. It’s over.

    Now, if I were A-Rod, I’d take this opportunity to go out on top and do something for the good of the game. And that is to bury Selig. That’s right, take him down from his self-appointed pedestal of baseball savior to what he really is: the guy who looked the other way as “The Steroid Era” revived interest in baseball after the fans left in droves following the ’94 strike and who now wants to be Mr. Holier Than Thou. Selig knew, the press knew and the teams knew, but they went along and enjoyed the spoils. Now they want to point fingers? Hells no! Penalize EVERYONE not just the players. (But do penalize ALL the players, since there are at least 103 of ‘em who A-Rod, at least in part, took the fall for. But that’s another story.) And if Rodriguez’s lawyers can also manage to squeeze in a challenge to baseball’s anti-trust exemption, then by all means. (Legal experts point to this probability as the reason why the lifetime ban might be a bluff, since A-Rod’s lawyers would surely employ a scorched earth approach if their client were to be banned for life.)

    Sometimes you have to destroy something in order to save it. Baseball’s status quo, as defined and represented by Selig, needs to go. THAT could be A-Rod’s lasting legacy.

    • Pat D

      I fully agree. If he goes down, he should take everyone with him. Clean up the game from both sides.

    • IRememberCelerinoSanchez

      I don’t have a problem with Rhoden’s view that baseball is hypocritical/power hungry.

      But the problem with Rhoden’s piece is that it is so focused on that issue, it pushes out parts of the story that don’t back his view.

      The reason Selig wants to give A-Rod more games than the other guys isn’t because he is A-Rod (or, at least, not just that he’s A-Rod), but because he allegedly did all this other stuff (impeded the investigation, lied in the earlier investigation, recruited players for Boesch, etc.).

      To be clear, I am not saying A-Rod did all these things. But if MLB has evidence he did those things, it would be appropriate to try and punish him more than the guys who just bought PEDs from Biogenesis.

      But Rhoden’s piece ignores that whole piece of the story that doesn’t fit into his larger argument.

      Rhoden’s analysis in this column is just too shallow. And it also tries to shoehorn the alleged facts of the case into his agenda of going after the league and bolstering player rights. Even if I agree with his goal (I’m certainly pro-player’s rights), I don’t respect his argument in this column.

      • CP

        The reason Selig wants to give A-Rod more games than the other guys isn’t because he is A-Rod (or, at least, not just that he’s A-Rod), but because he allegedly did all this other stuff (impeded the investigation, lied in the earlier investigation, recruited players for Boesch, etc.).

        Ummm…. Melky Cabrera.

        He did all of the same stuff as A-Rod (except possibly recruiting players), and he’s supposedly getting no suspension for any of it – just the 50 games for a first time steroid suspension. It seems clear to me that they’re going after A-Rod because he’s A-Rod, and not because of what he did.

        • Cool Lester Smooth

          Yeah, it’s definitely because he’s A-Rod.

        • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

          Exactly.

        • Gonzo

          He did all of the same stuff as A-Rod (except possibly recruiting players), and he’s supposedly getting no suspension for any of it…

          I don’t think any of the investigative journalists that have been covering this would take this statement as fact. Why can you?

    • Cujo

      That post was on point Kiko. Selig needs to go down with this sinking PED ship. He benefitted from this “Steroid Era” more than anyone else with the renewed interest in the game. Think of all the revenue he and the MLB made off selling these players as entertainment. Its time for Selig to go because this is 100% a two way street. Singling out A-Rod but standing by McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds in their Home Run chases is pathetic.

  • Pat D

    This is getting more entertaining all the time. That scumbag fucknut Bosch thought MLB would help him get the Feds off his back? Muhahahahahahahahahahaha. Now I hope maybe he does testify against players and still has his ass thrown in jail.

    • Pseudoyanks

      Exactly. What are the odds the Feds “honor” any deal he cut with Selig? Hah!

  • Al

    I hope A-rod dose not take a deal and fights this . He can then get a court order injunction and at which point everybody has a chance to face their accuser in the eyes of the law in court which means Tony Bosch will have to testify if Mr. bosh cannot testify due to the fact that he’s facing a possible federal investigation for federal charges. Then Bud and MLB would be up shits creek In other words going nuclear bomb versus nuclear bomb which would really mean turning this into a nuclear winter. Showing how major-league baseball acquired all the Information how they paid for the information have paid for testimony how they acquired wiretaps ,acquired cell phone records ,how they acquire private investigations and had investigators acquired through information and how they talked to player agents And players how they shake them down for information all this will become public.

    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadgeek Roadgeek Adam

      I’m not absolutely sure if the CBA would allow A-Rod to get the executive power to be given an injunction.

      The CBA is not a strength of mine, so if someone else knows, please inform.

    • King George

      They have, as Joel Sherman reported, a “skyscraper’s worth of evidence” compared to Ryan Braun’s “Lego block”

      Maybe it’s just me, but I doubt Tony Bosch and the Feds will impact A-Rod’s suspension. They have WRITTEN documents, they have text messages, they have voicemails all from A-Rod who is asking for, admitting, and speaking about HGH. Is that not enough to suspend him for a length period of time?

      • Andy

        Who says they have all this evidence?

        • King George

          Read any columnist. Passan, Heyman, Sherman, Rosenthal, Davidoff, TJ Quinn. TJ Quinn said they have so much stuff on A-Rod, that it’s appalling how many lies have been told by Rodriguez. I’m not saying believe every columnist and hold it as gospel, but where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

          • Andy

            Just like in the Duke lacrosse rape case, right? I’m not saying he’s innocent at all, I just have yet to see an article that actually describes any of the evidence, beyond just saying how much of it they have.

          • vicki

            right. but the columnists haven’t seen the evidence. its breadth has been leaked by whom?

            • King George

              TJ Quinn has seen the evidence actually. He tweets about it quite often.

              • RetroRob

                So TJ Quinn is being shown evidence by MLB that not even the people being banned have seen? That sounds like a problem.

                • King George

                  They’ve seen the evidence. How do you think Braun got suspended? He was shown the evidence. A-Rod and his team met with MLB and were shown the evidence. The players have all seen the evidence, now at what length and how much I don’t know. But TJ Quinn talked to Michael Kay about it on his podcast maybe 3-4 days ago and said he has a stack of evidence that he was looking at on his desk. If you don’t believe me, listen to the podcast. It was fascinating. Quinn said he has over 450 pages of documents that he was given by a source. He said it implicates all the players.

                  • King George

                    FWIW, I looked it up and the podcast was the 7/29 Michael Kay Show where Quinn spoke about the evidence he has.

                    • vicki

                      i find it really hard to believe that an investigative reporter has piles of evidence which he has yet to publish.

                • Slugger27

                  your position is that the players havent seen the evidence? are you kidding me?

                  braun accepted a plea deal because he saw the evidence. arod knows the evidence against him. hes more stubborn and greedy than braun (it seems anyway) but to think the players are unaware of the evidence is laughable.

          • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

            Possibly, though I’m sure glad you’re not the boss of our legal system.

            • King George

              The columnists have seen the evidence. I’m going off their word and I stated that, but thanks for the ringing endorsement?

              • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

                The word of most columnists is, to me, garbage. I’m a show me kind of guy.

  • Vern Sneaker

    Read the Rhoden piece. No matter how hypocritical MLB was for many years re PEDs, I doubt more than a few people feel any sympathy for A-Rod. He was a supremely talented athlete who decided to take it to an even higher level by using drugs, got caught, confessed, and had his body break down. He made a fortune, lucky him, suspend him or not or for how long, who cares any more? This Yankee fan wants to move on. We need a productive third baseman and it won’t be A-Rod.

    • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

      I feel sympathy.

      Not saying it’s all I feel. But I feel it.

  • Andy

    We have yet to see any evidence whatsoever that Alex or any of the others on the list used PEDs since this story first broke. MLB has not cited (let alone released) a single piece of evidence suggesting that Alex impeded the investigation or encouraged other players to use PEDs, which are supposedly the two offenses that is causing MLB to seek a lifetime ban. The way MLB is handling this whole case is extremely bizarre, unprofessional and and frankly highly suspect. If you’re going to take the case public, as they have, then you need to back up your accusations with at least some evidence and I think it’s odd they haven’t cited or referenced any. Probably because the only evidence they have was not only paid for, but comes from two sources with no credibility whatsoever. I’m not saying Alex or anyone else is innocent, but I think it’s clear that MLB knows their evidence is suspect (regardless of how much they have) and they’re hoping to win the battle before the crediblity of their evidence can be challenged. It’s amazing to me that the media and public is just accepting their accusations at face value.

    • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

      Well I think you’re missing a rather giant point: releasing (or not releasing) the evidence is a huuuuuuge bargaining chip MLB holds in its efforts to get players to accept deals without protest. Notice how much we know about the specifics of Braun’s involvement since he took the plea deal? Zero. That’s by design and I’m sure was explicitly part of the agreement.

      Not to say that it all won’t be leaked out at some point down the road. It probably will be, just like some of the names in the Mitchell report.

  • Kiko Jones

    MLB is offering A-Rod two options: career termination or practically assured career termination. I say he uses this opportunity to bring down the hypocrites who benefited and have all become pious regarding PEDs, Selig at the very least.

    • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

      +100000000

      And if they can also somehow bring Buck Showalter down I’d much appreciate that as well.

  • RetroRob

    Why that’s mighty big of MLB to offer to put in a kind word to the FEDs in support of the criminal and drug dealer Anthony Bosch. The government doesn’t care all that much about users. They care about the enablers and dealers like Bosch, which is the way it’s supposed to be. That is unless you’re MLB and you’re interested in the user, not the supplier. Steroid dealers be happy. If you’re caught, MLB will support you. Nothing to fear. Amazing.

    • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

      That’s because the supply network essentially included Selig and MLB on the whole throughout the entire steroid era. Looking the other way – as these (now sanctimonious) SOBs assuredly did – is enough to be called a dirty cop. No different here.

  • Andy

    MLB needs Bosch to authenticate the documents (i.e. say yes, these are my notes, or those are from my files). Apparently Bosch has agreed to do so. If he changes his mind as a result of the federal investigation, then a lot of MLB’s evidence is useless.

    • King George

      Weak at best. A handwriting expert, his already written testimonies, and his recorded statements that TJ Quinn has already confirmed MLB possesses should be more than enough.

      • Betty Lizard

        No, it shouldn’t be enough and it won’t be.

        • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

          Depends on the circumstances in which they were procured. If they were indeed paid for, and came with promises of legal support (“a good word with the Feds”) then I’d say that’s fair ground to attack the existing stuff in a court of law.

        • King George

          Right

  • Manny’s BanWagon

    Other than a lifetime ban, suspension till 2015 would be just great IMO.

    I would think that after sitting out 2 full season, having undergone 2 major hip surgeries and being 40 years old, it would be near miraculous if Arod was even a replacement level major league player so I think we’ve seen the last of him in pinstripes

    I also can’t understand how people could be in Arod’s corner since he did this to himself 100%. He’s lied, cheated, tried to block the investigation, reportedly recruited other players to Biogenesis so to paint him as a victim here is pretty ludicrous

    Of course MLB had to dive into the mud and deal with slimes like Bosch because that’s who Arod got into bed with. There are no upstanding people associated anywhere close with Biogenesis.

    • RetroRob

      I don’t think it’s that people are in A-Rod’s corner. They just recognize the hypocrisy of Selig and MLB.

      • Slugger27

        whats hypocritical? sure they turned a blind eye to it in the late 90s, but thats no longer the issue. arod failed a drug test in 2003 and wasnt punished for it. they didnt have a policy in place and they did turn a blind eye in the late 90s after all.

        but, later on, they laid out a firm stance against using, put a formal procedure in place, and have made it very clear theyre ready to hammer suspensions down on anyone thats caught up in PEDs. it would be hypocritical if they suspended people for using before hte testing. that didnt happen, and its not whats happening here.

        arod as a sympathetic figure is a joke.

        • Manny’s BanWagon

          This x 1000.

          There is no hypocrisy. Anyone caught is punished. Period.

          Arod was guilty not only of cheating but trying to block the investigation and also reportedly of recruiting players to Biogenesis. If all of that is true, he deserves a much more harsh penalty than the rest who are getting 50 games.

        • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

          Not to me. The way you brush off Selig’s (and basically all of MLB) complicity and enabling and looking the other way during the steroid era is bizarre IMO, and absolutely at the root of how and why A-Rod can be seen sympathetically here. Note it’s not the only thing I feel, but I definitely feel it.

          And, I feel extremely strongly that with the passage of time, especially if he never plays another game, A-Rod will come to be seen as increasingly sympathetic in all this.

          • Slugger27

            arod didnt get punished for his use in 2003!!

            they didnt punish people that used in the same timeframe as when they “looked the other way” … arod is only getting punished for his use NOW, when there is a formal program put in place. a formal program that his union agreed to.

            • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

              A formal program IN WHICH HE DID NOT GET CAUGHT.

              God you’re thick.

              • Manny’s BanWagon

                He DID get caught. What the hell do you think all this biogenesis evidence is???

                There are other ways of getting caught besides having a positive drug test. Otherwise why in the world would Braun and company accept these suspensions without appeal??

                • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

                  No, according to the CBA and the drug enforcement program, there is a testing and punishment protocol.

                  You can’t cite the CBA for baseball’s authority in this on the one hand, yet blithely ignore the fact that all this is happening outside the strict bounds of the CBA.

                  Obviously they have evidence, otherwise why would Braun have taken the deal he did? He also obviously wanted the evidence kept shut up (which thus far it has, though I’m sure it’ll come out sooner or later).

                  I’m not saying A-Rod isn’t guilty. In fact I’m pretty positive he is. But to boil this down to black and white without recognizing the issues with Selig’s utter hypocrisy is rather limited in my view.

                  • Manny’s BanWagon

                    Arod got away with cheating once, now it’s time he pay for his sins.

                    It would be far more hypocritical of Selig to turn the other way or give Arod a slap on the wrist than it would be to do whatever it takes to give him a punishment so harsh that it will deter others.

              • Slugger27

                read the reasonable cause section of the CBA.

                HE DID GET CAUGHT.

                god youre thick.

                :)

                • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

                  BZZZZT.

                  Thanks for playing.

                  The Reasonable Cause section requires the accused party to be notified and subjected to blood and/or urine tests within 48 hours, AND said party has the ability to dispute it prior to testing.

                  • Slugger27

                    Per 7.G.2 of the CBA:

                    “a player may be subjected to disciplinary action for just cause by the commissioner for any player violation of section 2 above not referenced in 7.a through 7.f above”

                    BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT. thanks for playing. :)

                  • Craig Maduro

                    Slugger is right, Droids. You either aren’t reading the CBA correctly or you aren’t reading the relevant parts. MLB did this successfully with Manny and were well within their rights to do so.

                    Slugger seems obnoxious, but he is correct in this case.

        • Cool Lester Smooth

          You’re first and second paragraphs are a great example of exactly why it is hypocritical.

          • Slugger27

            explain how. nobody had to wear helmets in the batters box back in the day, and now they do. is it hypocritical for mlb to implement safety procedures now as opposed to then? “oh you care about my safety NOW?!?! you didnt care 20 years ago!!!!”

            they run the league. they can change their mind. mlb needed any good publicity it could get back then. now that its healhy, PEDs are seen as something holding it back (if you disagree with whether they hurt of help the fans support of the sport, thats a different argument), and so now they have a formal testing program and punishment program in place for people who break the rules. the union agreed to this when they agreed to the CBA.

            i dont understand your rebuttal.

            • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

              Your continued citing of the CBA on the one hand, yet refusal to see the problem with the fact that he was not caught under the drug testing rules of the CBA, makes debating the point with you fruitless.

              The fact that you blithely dismiss the brazen, self serving about face of Selig et al, and how that directly impacts perception of A-Rod (at least for those who think it through) also makes it fruitless.

              • Slugger27

                theres a whole section of the cba dedicated to “reasonable cause”

                they have an abundance of reasonable cause, which is why arod is considering taking a plea.

                he IS in violation of the cba.

                • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

                  I recommend you read it. They have to notify the accused, collect blood/urine within 48 hours, AND the accused has the right to dispute the evidence before a panel, PRIOR to that testing.

                  Thanks for playing though.

                  • Slugger27

                    you do realize manny got a 50 game suspension for 7.g.2 in the cba, and not for a positive test right? theres already 1 example of this specific punishment thats happened to a high profile player in the game.

                    7.g.2 ….

                    i play the game just fine, thanks. you lose.

        • RetroRob

          Really? You actually think MLB’s actions here are okay?

          • Slugger27

            what makes them not ok? they put a PED testing program in place that the union agreed to. they put a PED punishment system in place that the union agreed to. arod willfully broke the rules, and then allegedly panicked and tampered with evidence once he got caught, which mlb has more than a right to punish him for if that is indeed what happened (as it appears to be).

            where exactly is mlb in the wrong again?

      • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

        Exactly. People’s need to black and white this issue is beyond me.

    • IRememberCelerinoSanchez

      Remember, if he shows up at spring training in February 2015 and says, “I’m ready to play,” the Yanks still have to pay him. And make no mistake, that is exactly what A-Rod will do. He’s not retiring. So if the Yanks cut him, his salary still counts against the luxury tax (which means it will affect how the Yanks spend on players).

      Because of this, there is a big difference for the Yanks (and us, as fans) between a lifetime ban and a suspension through 2014.

      • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

        Exactly. People seem to fail to grasp what happens in 2015 if the ban is until then. Thank you for the sanity.

        ARod would get paid then, either by the Yanks if he can play, or by insurance if he cannot. I’m pretty sure that insured payment still gets counted toward lux tax payroll (though am not certain).

      • Manny’s BanWagon

        If he gets suspended to 2015, I think the Yankees will either buy him out at a little less than the $60 million they’ll owe him or they’ll just release him and he’ll become a pariah like Manny Ramirez has become.

        • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

          You do realize that a buy out is a two way street right? They can’t just pay him less than $60mm because they feel like it. Why would A-Rod take a penny less? Absolutely no reason to.

          • Manny’s BanWagon

            He’ll likely get his money and never play another game in the major leagues.

            • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

              Agreed. I think this most likely.

        • jim p

          I wonder if they could just send him to the minors, and keep him there. Maybe that’s in the contract, one way or the other. If Yanks could, how long could he bear it?

    • Kiko Jones

      I can only speak for myself but I’m not defending A-Rod. What makes my blood boil is the hypocrisy of Selig and his acolytes who KNEW about PED use but did not act because it was not beneficial to do so at the time, since “The Steroid Era” brought back baseball after fans left in droves after the ’94 strike. But NOW Selig wants to be the guy who cleans up baseball and use A-Rod as the poster boy. What about the other 103 on the list? What about Big Papi? Hell, Andy Pettite gets NO grief! No, this is about fairness. A-Rod should pay the piper but he should not do it alone. Period.

      • Slugger27

        what are you even talking about? this post doesnt make any sense….

        papi, pettitte, arod (the first time)… none of those guys were suspended for their earlier usage. arod is being suspended because he broke the rules after testing and a formal punishment was stated in the CBA.

        • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

          Your failure to understand hypocrisy is breathtaking.

          • Slugger27

            they looked the other way in the late 90s/early 2000s. people who used in the late 90s/early 2000s werent punished.

            they now have a formal testing program in place, a formal testing program that arod and his union agreed to. people who use now are punished under said (and agreed upon) program.

            your failure to point out where mlb is hypocritical is breathtaking.

            • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

              AROD WAS NOT CAUGHT UNDER THE DRUG TESTING RULES AND PROGRAM OF THE CBA.

              • Manny’s BanWagon

                AROD WAS CAUGHT BUYING PEDS FROM A PED DEALER, TEXT SAID PED DEALER REPEATEDLY TO COME TO HIS HOUSE TO ADMINISTER PEDS AND THEN TRY TO BUY DOCUMENTS TO IMPEDE THE INVESTIGATION.

                AROD IS GUILTY AS SIN AND DESERVES TO BE PUNISHED HARSHLY.

                • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

                  Read the Reasonable Cause section. The process clearly spelled out therein will likely surprise you. He was not caught according to that section of the CBA. He was caught because they bought information from a criminal drug dealer.

                  I’m not saying A-Rod isn’t guilty. In fact I’m positive he is.

                  But to blithely ignore Selig’s self serving hypocrisy in all this because it was a while ago and they changed their POV is way too narrow minded IMO.

                  • Slugger27

                    you do realize manny got a 50 game suspension for 7.g.2 in the cba, and not for a positive test right? theres already 1 example of this specific punishment thats happened to a high profile player in the game.

                    7.g.2 ….

                    i play the game just fine, thanks. you lose.

              • Slugger27

                YES HE WAS. HE WAS CAUGHT PURCHASING PEDS FROM A PED DEALER WHO (AMONG OTHERS) HAS RATTED AROD OUT. THERE ARE DOCUMENTS, TEXTS, TESTIMONIES, AND WHATEVER ELSE MLB SAYS THEY HAVE AGAINST AROD. THERE IS A REASONABLE CAUSE SECTION IN THE CBA THAT LAYS OUT SPECIFICALLY WHY WHAT AROD IS DOING IS IN VIOLATION.

                give it up, man. youre not the first guy on the internet to be wrong or even passionately wrong.

                • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

                  Read the Reasonable Cause section. The process clearly spelled out therein will likely surprise you. He was not caught according to that section of the CBA. He was caught because they bought information from a criminal drug dealer.

                  I’m not saying A-Rod isn’t guilty. In fact I’m positive he is.

                  But to blithely ignore Selig’s self serving hypocrisy in all this because it was a while ago and they changed their POV is way too narrow minded IMO.

    • Betty Lizard

      And MLB “had” to violate its own agreement with its public leaks of a confidential process in order to extort penalty agreements from players?

      • Manny’s BanWagon

        What ever it takes to punish those who are guilty, so be it.

        Arod complained to the Yankees about his quad injury then when they extended his rehab, he recruited this idiot doctor to defend him publicly who hadn’t even examined him so the leaks go both ways.

        • vicki

          Whatever It Takes is fascist ideology.

          • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

            +100000000

            I’m extremely pleased that Manny and Slugger and some others here are not the boss of my civil liberties, whether defined in a labor agreement or otherwise.

            • Slugger27

              you and i live in a democracy. mlb isnt a democracy, though.

              • vicki

                if the anti-trust exemption somehow means members of the mlbpa are not entitled to the same rights and privileges – due process, for example – guaranteed other private sector union members, it should be voided.

                • Manny’s BanWagon

                  The players in the MLBPA are making out like freakin bandits.

                  How many occupations are there where the average salary $3.2 million and your performance can go totally to shit yet your full salary is guaranteed?

                  Don’t take steroids. Not a hard concept to grasp.

                  • vicki

                    rich people are citizens too. when you come across bitter and jealous it undermines your argument.

                    • Manny’s BanWagon

                      Very poor observation on your part. I’m neither bitter nor jealous and without going into details, happen to be very fortunate myself for a variety of reasons professionally and family wise.

                      The CBA between ownership and the MLBPA has been extremely skewed in favor of the players for many, many years now. Your implication that their members aren’t being treated fairly is humorous IMO since in nearly all instances, they are better protected by their union and enjoy more benefits as members than practically any worker in any other walk of life. To portray them and/or Arod as victims is comical.

                      As for my argument, there is nothing that any logical person can undermine. Arod is in all likelihood guilty of cheating, lying, trying to undermine an investigation and of recruiting players to Biogenesis. If all this is true, he deserves to be punished severely and more harshly than the other players who were guilty of only cheating. However MLB gets to that endpoint is fine by me so long as justice is ultimately served.

            • Manny’s BanWagon

              Don’t do drugs, cheat, steal or commit fraud and you’ll have no problems regardless who is “the boss of my civil liberties.”

              • vicki

                wow.

          • Manny’s BanWagon

            Who ever said MLB was a democracy?

  • TomG

    I’m withholding judgment. This is pure speculation, but i’ve heard of three players who were in the Yankees organization and are caught up in this Biogenesis stuff: Rodriguez, Cervelli, and Montero. A superstar and two young minor leaguers. It’s kinda hard to believe that all three of them happened to stumble onto the same anti-aging clinic in some random Florida strip mall.

    • CashmanNinja

      Don’t forget Melky Cabrera and Bartolo Colon. While it’s not a given that A-Rod talked any of them into it, it does look very shady. So 5 players who happen to be connected…it depends on if you believe in coincidence or not. The fact that they’re saying A-Rod steered players towards it really makes it look like he could have pushed at least 4 people onto the path of PEDs. Add on the fact that he supposedly tried to buy evidence so he could destroy it…yeah, I don’t understand why people are so pissed off at Selig or MLB? If any other player had done this they’d be calling for a life time ban, but just because it’s a Yankee doing it all of a sudden the conspiracy theorists are out in full force with Selig’s supposed vendetta against the Yankees.

      A-Rod made his own decisions and they were obviously the wrong ones. I personally hope he gets a life time ban if all of the evidence is true and not just because it saves the Yankees money (although that does help).

      • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

        There’s another Colon connection too, no? The doctor (in Canada?) who injected the stuff into Colon’s elbow who A-Rod apparently also saw, but supposedly didn’t get that treatment…platelet injection I think it was.

  • JFH

    I am no fan of A-Rod and embarrassed he is a Yankee. But, I am disgusted with the way MLB has conducted their “investigation”….constant leaks to the press, paying off scumbags like Bosch, threatening a lifetime ban so there can be no appeal. Selig and company come off just as sleazy as A-Rod, to me.

    • JFH

      By the way, I did not mean paying of Bosch, but extorting for testimony.

    • JFH

      By the way, I did not mean paying off Bosch, but extorting for testimony.

    • Slugger27

      what action is ok in your opinion? you know turning criminals on other criminals is standard paliamentary procedure right? when a cop busts a big drug deal, the first thing they try to do is to get that guy to turn on the even bigger people that are involved, often by incentives such as lesser jail time or WPP.

      leaks to the press are essentially harmless in this scenario, certainly not “sleazy” in my opinion. if you have a problem with them negotiating with bad guys to get other bad guys then you have a problem with any justice system, im afraid.

      • Betty Lizard

        Oh good grief! This is a civil, contractual situation not the criminal justice system!
        If it were a criminal case, Alex Rodriguez et al would have a LOT more rights.

        • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

          Exactly. Slugger has a strange view of reality IMO.

          • RetroRob

            I’m hoping he’s just a troll; otherwise, a discussion about ethics is a lost cause.

            • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

              Completely agreed.

            • Slugger27

              not a troll… just a fan of justice. ive laid out points why i feel my view is correct. youve dismissed them without much reasoning, and droids has dismissed them using a technicality that ironically enough isnt even techincally true (due to his lack of knowledge about the subject, it appears).

              • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

                Wrong. Read the Reasonable Cause section and you will find that it is not in play here. MLB certainly didn’t follow the procedure specified or it’d all be over at this point.

                What I object to is not the notion of A-Rod’s guilt. I’m pretty sure he’s guilty as sin. What I have a problem with is the way you seem to place zero weight on the blatantly self serving hypocrisy of Selig and MLB here.

                • Manny’s BanWagon

                  Hypocrisy would be for Selig to ignore this situation or to give Arod a slap on the wrist.

                  Selig has a chance to try and right a previous wrong of his administration when PEDs were ignored by the teams, media, etc. and his only ethical option is to punish all involved as harshly as possible.

            • Manny’s BanWagon

              It’s pretty sad that you feel the need to label someone who doesn’t agree with your viewpoint a “troll”

        • CashmanNinja

          A contractual situation does involve the criminal justice system since it’s a LARGE amount of money on hand. A-Rod basically screwed the Yankees, but will still get his money thanks to his CONTRACT. A contract is an agreement between 2 parties in which each side offers up something of substance the other for a task to be completed. The Yankees give A-Rod money; A-Rod gives the Yankees production. Contracts are not legally binding if they involve breaking the law or are otherwise unethical. A-Rod supposedly steered others towards this shady doctor as well as attempted to buy/destroy evidence against him. He was interfering with the investigation. So in the end he will get his money, but the Yankees will get nothing from him, thus the contract is more or less an albatross for the Yankees. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Yankees attempted to find a way to sue him for breach of contract when all is said and done.

          • Manny’s BanWagon

            Exactly.

            Arod juiced and get his monster 10 year contract. He’ll get nearly all his money but the Yankees have gotten shit the last few years.

          • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

            Wrong. (Otherwise legally binding) Civil contracts only involve the criminal justice system if there is fraud in the inducement. There has been a ton of ink spilled as to why it’d be essentially impossible for the Yankees to prove this.

            • CashmanNinja

              Uh, I think common sense is a little obvious in this case. He used performance enhancing drugs in order to “enhance his performance”, even though it was against the rules of baseball. And this is AFTER he had already previously ridiculed for using them while in Texas — although the drug testing policies weren’t exactly strict or as enforced back then. But in the end A-Rod deceived the Yankees by having them pay for a product that wasn’t up to par. It was fraud. It’s as simple as bait-and-switch. A-Rod juiced, got paid, and then went back to being crappy — which is why he may have turned to biogenesis in order to get his “game” back…

        • Slugger27

          arod does have rights. so does selig. selig has the right to suspend him, just as arod has the right to appeal the suspension.

          for all this talk there still hasnt been one specific example of something unethical being done by mlb here. im still waiting for it.

          far as i can tell, everything theyve done in this investigation is well within their rights to do. if someone can point out something theyre doing that isnt in their rights to do, im all ears. hasnt happened yet.

          • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

            Well actually they’ve threatened (via leak) to invoke a power that denies the ability to appeal, and another that denies the ability to play while appealing.

            You don’t think purchasing information from a criminal drug dealer is unethical or wrong in any way?

            You don’t think Selig’s brazenly self serving about face on PEDs isn’t part of the conversation?

            • Slugger27

              you can gripe about the about-face if you wish, but the point is that the about-face was made very clear. and arod broke the rules knowing full well that selig had made the about face and knowing full well what the leagues stance on PEDs was and what the possible consequences might be.

              as far as purchasing information from a drug dealer, thats pretty standard in this country. guys are constantly given incentives to turn on others involved in organized crime, which sadly, is what this is. i dont like it necessarily, but it is what it is.

      • Manny’s BanWagon

        Exactly.

        Criticizing MLB for making deals with Bosch is ignorant.

        I guess the FBI is “sleazy” for getting organized crime members to flip on each other trying to fry the biggest fish possible.

        • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

          Ignorant? What are you, 12?

          And actually yes, there’s a reason that testimony from turn coats is rightly questioned, and often disregarded, when cases actually move to trial.

          • Manny’s BanWagon

            Unfortunately, testimony from turncoats is all that’s often available as there are no upstanding citizens anywhere close to these kinds of people Arod has chosen to associate himself with. Very frequently, testimony from turncoats is more than enough to garner convictions.

            If yoy are trying to imply Arod was innocently dragged into this situation by Boesch, you are ignorant.

            • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

              Thanks for putting words into my mouth kid! Nice try though.

              We are simply debating whether it’s sleazy to purchase information from a criminal drug dealer. It is. Full stop. Believing otherwise is ignorant.

              • Manny’s BanWagon

                We are simply debating whether it’s sleazy to purchase information from a criminal drug dealer. It is. Full stop. Believing otherwise is ignorant.

                If you think it’s sleazy to make deals with and purchase information from criminals, maybe you should move back to Pollyanna land because that’s the way our criminal justice systems works.

  • RetroRob

    While a suspension of A-Rod through 2014 might sound good, it does make the outer years of A-Rod’s contract even worse. The Yankees will owe him another $61M over three years. He’d be in decline even if he was out playing. Now basically he’ll be away from the game two years, never quite getting the chance to face MLB pitching post his surgery, which means the rust will be high and his skills will most likely have eroded even faster.

    I think it was Bill James who once did a study on the impact on losing just a single year of playing time has on a player’s production (not good), so now look at two years, post surgery, approaching 40? Yup, it won’t be pretty, but he will have three more years on his contract, he will be owed $61M minimum, and his $27.5M AAV will still impact the Yankees luxury tax and will thus control their spending even in 2014.

    Last, if A-Rod is not paid for the last third of 2013, lowering his salary this year, and not paid at all next year, will this raise the AAV of A-Rod’s contract, since 2013 and 2014 will both come in under the $27.5M AAV that currently exists? Will his AAV actually increase, hurting the Yankees even more?!

    • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

      This question was posed in another thread and no one was able to answer definitively. My guess is that since the suspended salary does not count in the time of the suspension, it should also then theoretically lower the AAV of the remaining time. Can’t say for sure though.

      • RetroRob

        My gut says this can’t possible drive up the AAV. Yet I wonder if even MLB has thought that over?

        • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

          No sorry my thought is that if anything it drives it down. Still a 10 year deal, just less money total and thus lower AAV. Not sure though.

  • Carlos Danger

    On Monday we’ll hear Tuesday, then on Tuesday we’ll hear Wednesday. For fucks sake, shit or get off the pot. Something tells me when A-Rod is ready to be activated they’ll miraculously have “all they need” for a suspension.

    This whole ordeal stinks.

  • lightSABR

    Ban him, Bud! Don’t give in!

  • Chris in Durham

    I read that NYT “article”… Just terrible. Baseball is heavy-handed? “Wahhhh, waahhhhh!!!!” Baseball should be downright ruthless. These guys are felons with bats. Hey, I’m not MLB quality, so I’ll juice and make millions in the show! Hey, I’m only mediocre in the show, so I’ll juice and be a star making millions more than I would otherwise. Hey, I’m really good at this, but if I juice, I’ll be awesome and break amazing records and be paid historic money!

    Tell me how the Brewers’ owner feels about Braun’s contract. How about the Giants’ owner last year? What about Hal? Think he has any opinion about that filthy rich contract that was given PRIMARILY to the guy who was going to clean up the all-time HR record? These players make these owners look like idiots. I used to root for ARod. Now I’m left with “Errr… um…”.

    I applaud Bud for the high-handedness. Go get ‘em!

    • vicki

      can you have meant high-handedness there? i think your thesaurus let you down.

    • Kiko Jones

      It always surprises me how…

      a) some people think PEDs are miracle drugs that can turn your average body builder into Barry Bonds;

      b) how these same people conveniently ignore the scrubs who took PEDs and were STILL mediocre afterwards.

  • David Brown

    Based on the Government getting involved, it may be to Alex Rodriguez’s benefit to fight this tooth and nail, and not accept any punishment ( on the assumption Bosch will not testify). I am a person who really detests Rodriguez and hope he goes away, and would be satisfied if they made a deal where he collects ALL of his money from the Yankees ( 2013 included), provided: 1: He retires or is suspended ( I never want him in Pinstripes again) 2: they do not have to found his salary against the Luxury Tax.

  • forensic

    I think we’re all sick of this Biogenesis stuff by now

    Obviously. It also wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world if all this faux-TMZ gossip wasn’t posted every freaking day. It’s as bad as MLBTR at the trade deadline and winter meetings with stories that change every four seconds and mean nothing. Wait until something is actually official and post it then.

    /endrant

  • Martin T.

    Seriously? You’re recommending that nonsense by William Rhoden? “When a thug on the street uses a gun to commit a crime, when a junkie is picked up for using drugs, the cogent question is, How are guns and drugs allowed to flood the community?” This guy is comparing the legal problems of the richest guy in baseball to real urban crime issues–and you find this helpful?

    • I’m not the droids you’re looking for…

      Actually yes. Anything that highlights the brazenly self serving hypocrisy of Selig in this is helpful.

      The reason MLB is only interested in the users and not the system that allows players to use is that Selig sat squarely within said system for years (at the top of it in fact) and benefitted mightily from it.

      • Bubba

        As did many players… and owners… and the union… and the BBWAA… and to an extent the fans.

        There are no heroes here. I am no Selig fan (see below), but if he sat on the top of anything the players were right next to him.

    • Craig Maduro

      Agreed. Slugger seems arrogant but he’s right that Selig is breaking no rules. He has every right to do what he is doing. Comparing it to real life crime is ridiculous. Can’t believe Mike chose THAT article to endorse.

  • Former ACE MannyGeee

    OK so I was mesmerized on Sunday, now I am completely over it. Please make it stop. Shit or get off the pot already.

  • Bubba

    Can we please stop arguing over who’s the cleanest guy in the septic tank? They are all hypocritical jag-offs; the players, the owners, MLB, Selig, the union and last but certainly not least the BBWAA. Selig’s an eleven on the Showalter douchiness scale but he’s just doing his job now (maybe too vociferously but still). A-Rod’s sympathetic? Puhleease, sad maybe. He could have been a generational talent but we will never know now and we are all poorer because of what he did.

    This whole situation sucks and while I know it is not going away anytime soon I wish to God it would.

  • Mike

    Wow! I think the article was written by A-Frauds attorneys! A lifetime ban is appropriate for all players found to be cheating. This is about time MLB got balls.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    There are many quotes from movies that have resonated deeply with me over the years. I never thought “You should have shot A-Rod” would become one of them, yet here we are.

    I don’t care what’s fair, or who is the bigger dirtbag anymore. Just go away. Thank you for 2009.

  • Axisa Sucks

    What a shocker, Mike defends A-Rod again. What intelligent Yankee fan would defend this piece of crap? Thanks for ’09 and you know what–thanks to Hideki Matsui as well as CC, AJ, Damon, etc…..there is this division that has always existed with Yankee fans–the A-Rod cronies who are usually stat geek dorks who live/breathe off him providing their fantasy teams wins and how they could interject that into any/every conversation. On opposite end–there are the fans who just want the team/organization to win/do the right thing and knew signing Rodriguez to this deal was ignorant to begin with. Now he’s a 3-4 time liar, he’s to be the “victim”. I’d rather see a lifetime ban for two reasons-to rid the team of this moron and to save money which the team should after he’s lied, tampered with evidence, and lied again and again.

    If that is your type of player–enjoy. I don’t think this year’s team would be any different with Rodriguez at 3B then what they’ve had. He’s washed up and while 3B has been atrocious–I can live with that and a down year over having to see this washed up hack sloth his way around and hit about 12-15 HR’s and be on DL 3-4 times a year.

    • Kiko Jones

      You forgot another category: the fans who selectively point fingers. Where’s the outrage over Pettite’s HGH use? [crickets...] Whitey Ford’s ball doctoring? [crickets...] Thurman Munson’s corked bat? [you know] No problem there. But A-Rod is the spawn of Satan. OK, gotcha.

  • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

    Has anyone ever thought about text messages? They’re kept on your phone until you delete them, but you can also edit them. The person with whom you texted can also edit theirs…so the only version that is legally useful is the official version held by the telecom. However, they only maintain about 30 days worth of back texts…unless they get a request to start specifically maintaining data from a court.

    So to say ‘we have text messages’ really doesn’t impress me…