Thoughts following the road trip

Swept: Yankees grab defeat from jaws of victory (twice!) in finale against White Sox
Cashman says Yankees are still looking for help at third base
(Jonathan Daniel/Getty)
(Jonathan Daniel/Getty)

The only good thing about the Yankees being this bad — 27-38 in their last 65 games, a 67-win pace over a full season — is that I can kinda stop caring about the outcome of each game. Just sit back and watch baseball, that’s all. Maybe even get excited when they win. Crazy idea, no? Being free of expectations is pretty cool. Anyway, some random thoughts.

1. The Yankees should absolutely start playing some of their young players, but they aren’t exactly loaded with big league ready talent. They can steal at-bats from various veterans to give David Adams more playing time and flat-out replace Chris Stewart with Austin Romine, but that’s really it. Maybe dump Joba Chamberlain for Dellin Betances. Not much more they can do besides that unless Michael Pineda gets healthy pretty soon. It’s still worth it though, Romine and Adams (and Betances) might actually be useful next year and it’s worth seeing what they’ve got.

2. I threw this out there on Twitter the other day, so I might as well do it here: what positive long-ish term developments have there been for the Yankees so far this season? Just at the big league level and not something like Hiroki Kuroda being awesome. Something that improves the team’s 2014 outlook. You know what I mean. There’s Ivan Nova‘s last five or six weeks, Preston Claiborne and Shawn Kelley in the bullpen, and … that’s it, right? I suppose Adam Warren as well, despite last night’s outing. There has not been much of a silver lining so far this year, though I suppose that could change if they do start playing some more youngsters. I’m not going to hold my breath though. It’s not in their DNA.

(Al Bello/Getty)
(Al Bello/Getty)

3. Although he’s been slumping since the All-Star break, Robinson Cano is still hitting a stellar .287/.371/.492 (131 wRC+) on the year. It is down a touch from his .311/.370/.538 (142 wRC+) performance from 2010-2012, however. How much of that step down do you think is the result of his recent slump, and how much is actual age-related decline? The 30-year-old Cano has been really good this year overall, though he has had some frustrating;y long stretches of being straight up bad and I don’t know what to think. With Dustin Pedroia and Chase Utley signing contracts valued at $14M per year (or below), the idea of a $20M+ annual deal for Robbie isn’t sitting well with me. He’s better than those two, but that much better? I keep going back and forth with the idea of signing him long-term, but I full expect the Yankees to give him a fat new deal at some point.

4. This isn’t Yankees related, but have you noticed the NL playoff field is just about set already? The Braves and Dodgers are running away with their divisions, plus the Pirates, Cardinals, and Reds all have comfortable leads on a postseason spot. They just have to sort out the NL Central winner and two wildcards. Cincinnati has the worst record of the trio and they’re four games up on the next best team, the Diamondbacks. That NL Central race will be interesting, but otherwise all the late-season excitement will come from the AL.

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Swept: Yankees grab defeat from jaws of victory (twice!) in finale against White Sox
Cashman says Yankees are still looking for help at third base
  • Kramerica Industries

    Out of curiosity, Mike, when did you wave the proverbial white flag on 2013? Was it after any given game, or were you already expecting nothing of the sort before it even began (wouldn’t blame you if you weren’t).

    I finally had enough after Tuesday night, and then Wednesday happened to just make it seem that much worse. Even the Astros don’t lose games where they get the final out of the game. That was too unreal to even begin to fathom.

    • Dr. TJ Eckelberg

      I’m not Mike (obviously), but this was it for me. I had a glimmer of hope coming into the series that we could win a series against a bad team, get some waiver trade help, and go on a run. At this point I think you have to try and look to next year (and look forward to football/hockey season).

      I love Cano, but I’m still in the “trade Cano” camp. I don’t know if you can tell him and his agents that it isn’t disloyalty (or if he would take a trade as such), but I would love to get some prospects then try and resign him. There doesn’t seem to be much of a precedent for that so I’m sure it’s not doable, but I’m not thrilled with giving Robbie a $20mm+ AAV contract for as long as he wants it. This team is more than a couple players away, and there is nothing worth getting excited over in next years free agent class or coming from the farm. It’s time to make a smart business move.

    • jm from nj

      I would imagine the white flag gets raised when you get swept by a team that had lost 10 in a row.

    • Mike HC

      Mike was all but waving the white flag during the off season, which turned out to be quite prescient. I was holding out hope up until a couple of days ago.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      The trade deadline. They needed help as soon as Tex/Youk/Grandy got hurt again and never bothered to get it. Soriano was too late/not enough.

      • gbyanks

        Mike your thoughts on converting Murphy to third if we do sign McCain in the off season? Seems like everyday catcher will be taken for hopefully the next 3 years (I think McCain signs for max, 5 years around around 75 mill). Unless we put Murphy in a trade for a starter Cough Headley Cough. I get that it looks like Murphy can really catch it just seems like a waste of one of our young close to mlb ready prospects……..our only young and close to mlb ready prospect*, to keep him at a log jammed position.

        P.S. no law that says we cant keep having Murphy catch on the side and a few games throughout the season. It wouldn’t suck to have another catcher on the team when McCain is DHing and the backup is playing.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Signing McCain would certainly fit in with the narrative of signing old guys.

          • botz

            Who the hell is McCain? I’m guessing it’s Brian McCann and no he’s not an old guy. He’s 29.

            • jjyank

              The Joke.

              —————

              Your head.

              • Robinson Tilapia

                Apologies to gbyanks for having some fun at his expense.

                • gbyanks

                  Its all good, Should have spell checked the guys name. But i don’t really care about age i care about production. We were old as shit last year but still good. The problem is we had no money to spend and thought that ichiro, stewart and youk were going to replace Swisher martin and arod. Its not about age its about production.(McCann* should be a productive catcher for the first 2-3 years of that contract and by then you hope that Sanchez is ready and McCann can dh his final 2 years.)

                  • Robinson Tilapia

                    I saw the other comment. :)

                    It’s all good. I’d be on board for McCann as well.

                    • DerekHitter

                      McCann= another lefty hitter who will fall in love with the short porch and become a pull hitter susceptible to lefty pitching. No thanks! I say blow it all up! I’m willing to suffer through another losing season. Do not sign Cano unless he’s taking market value (for a second basebmen).

            • Robinson Tilapia

              No, you dummy. McCain. Here we go again signing the old guys. The only range this guy’s got left is slightly reaching across the aisle. Typical Cashman. Nah, this has Levine’s finger all over it. Like that will put asses in seats. The boss is rolling in his grave right now.

              Cashman faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaailed.

              • gbyanks

                Ok then, please tell me the young Middle of the order bat that you would like to get in the off season. There isn’t one. A trade for a middle of the order bat is unreasonable to predict with the state of our farm system. Who do you want from the FA class? Ellsbury(30 with no power),Choo (31 and cant hit lefties),Utley?(34)Pence?(30 and really not that good). McCann would give you a 350 OBP with power from a premium position, for hopefully the next 3 years ( I wont bank on a 34 year old still being able to catch every day. Your argument isn’t valid because there just aren’t other options. If you want to compete next year they are going to have to spend money. And different from last year we will have money to spend. Because who ever we have at third hes not making 27.5 million and who ever we have close wont make close to 15 million.

                • Robinson Tilapia

                  Look at the joke above. It’s all good.

                • Mike HC

                  Tilapia doesn’t want to sign “McCain.” You know, the 76 year old war vet, republican politician. I’m not sure about his thoughts on “McCann.”

                  • D$1184

                    76? Awesome, he would bring the average age of this roster down! GET IT DONE, CASHMAN!!!!

  • Across the Pond

    For us Europeans, the suckiness means more sleep so there’s a silver lining for us.

    • Nick

      Amen to that! For the first time in years I’m showing up consistently on time for work!

  • Darren

    I guess you would have given up in ’78 also.

    Honestly, what the fuck is the point in being a fan if you’re going to give up with almost a third left in the season.

    • kenthadley

      1978 team was good, but just wasn’t playing well, and playing against itself. This team was obviously flawed from the winter and the injuries just accelerated the decline. As it sits, there’s no catcher, ss, 1b, and enough starting pitching on this team to take it any more seriously than a longshot for a second wild card. And the lack of young talent, 7 years after he took all development over, speaks volumes for assessing the Cashman ownership of all this mess.

    • trr

      Myself, I never truly give up until we’re eliminated, but you cannot compare this team to the ’78 team.

    • fat jeter

      you make a decent enough point, but 78 was almost 40 years ago and not a real comparison. Completely different eras, completely different teams, completely different goals. The 78 yanks would kick the shit of the 2013 iteration. Chambliss, Jackson, Randolf, Nettles, Pinella, et al. could score runs. Gossage, Guidry, Lyle, Figueroa, et al. kept runs off the board. That was a team built to make a run at the pennant. The 2013 yanks are desperately clawing at a 2nd wildcard spot that really only guarantees playing 163rd game. I definitely respect your optimism and if RAB were to have a closed door meeting, I would want this sentiment expressed, but the reality of the situation, to me, was pretty clear in the winter and rang more true with every injury and loss since the all-star break.

      • Darren

        I’m not trying to make comparisons between this year’s team and’78. That team was waaaay better than this year’s team. So far.

        My point is more of a philosphical one. Why give up? Because it’s easier to not feel emotions if the team loses? That’s ridiculous. We demand 100% intensity from the players (see: Cano) and yet we can give up?

        Again, if we had some young talent being held back because Girardi was trying to hang on to a thread of hope, it would be different. But as Mike pointed out, there’s basically nothing for us to change!

        So just keep hoping, don’t give up on Jeter yet, let’s hope Alex hits some dingers, Cano gets hot, Grandy can go yard, CC and Andy roung back into form as they sniff October, and Mo goes out in a blaze of glory.

        It ain’t over til it’s over. Yogi is smarter than all of us.

        • fat jeter

          I don’t get a paycheck for being a fan. But I get what you are saying. to me though its much less about giving up and much more about recognizing the current situation and taking the appropriate steps to ensure it doesn’t happen again. Think about a game of high stakes poker. When you don’t have a good hand, you can either bluff or fold and hope for a better hand next deal. I am in the fold category as I feel the team has been bluffing since December.

          • Darren

            But with poker, you can lose money if you stay too long with a bad hand. Here, there’s no downside to holding. I mean, sure, I’m all for playing Romaine more than Stewart, and maybe giving Adams some of Overbay’s ABs, but what else is there?

            I know we’re not getting paid to be fans, but it also costs us nothing to stick with this for another month. We owe it to Mo. (or something)

            • Cacique

              I think we should go with radicchio over the romaine

        • trr

          Darren, as a fan I’m standing right next to you.

          But as a realist, the writing is on the wall, for all to see…

          • 461deep

            78 team much better and had only Red Sox who tanked in August that year to catch. Guidry was
            the man where CC is not this year. Chasing 5 teams this year for WC. Still a glimmer but need to play .633 ball now to win 88 games which still might not be enough for 2nd WC. On Cano, ghive him 5 years at
            100 M. Just not that much of a leader difference maker as hecould be despite terrific numbers. Alex, Curtis, Derek, Ichiro, Bret, Tex, hustle even on balls they rarely beat out. Cano only chugs when odds in his favor.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I can’t speak for what someone else’s emotional needs are. My assumption is that, if you’re feeling disappointment as to the end of the season, there’s some level of emotional detachment that occurs with most fans, with the opposite being those who feel like a family member died for months after the team doesn’t win the World Series.

          I don’t have that hard and fast “I’m walking away for now” when things are down. I’m also not going to repeatedly hold my hand to the flame if my hand hurts every time I touch the fire.

          I have hope and, until the team is mathematically eliminated, I hold out hope for the season. If and/or when that happens, my mind immediately switches to the next seasom *coughandheatthreepeatcough* and what’s in store. That doesn’t mean that you can’t take a break in intensity during a losing streak or whatnot. I think that’s fine. Perhaps, for some, that break in intensity needs to be a harder and faster line for their sanity.

          Whatever you need to do for yourself, just stick with the team in the long run. That’s all I ask of fans.

    • Kosmo

      I was around for the 1978 season. Guidry had arguable the greatest season since Koufax and before Pedro. The Yanks won the WS in 1977 with the same team. They expected to win. Guidry-Figueroa-Hunter went something like a combined 35-8 post AS with a ridiculously low ERA. They had a great lineup. This 2013 team in ALL facets of the game is inferior to the 1978 team. By far.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      There’s a choice to be made as to what kind of fan you are.

      I guess that, for some folks, there’s some comfort in saying “that’s it…..I’m emotionally walking away” and declaring the season over for yourself…..sort of like the guy on this week’s episode of “Catfish,” but I massively digress.

      (As someone who met their now-spouse on the net looooooong before it was cool to, I get a massive kick out of that show.)

      To others, like me, fuck no, I don’t hold out hope until that door is fully slammed shut. Like I said in the previous thread, 1.8% is better odds than 1.0%.

      To each his own, in the end. I knew the odds were tough when the season started. I’m not phased now. I’m disappointed, and I’m glad I didn’t stay up last night, but I soldier on as a fan.

      • PEDs

        You’re such a piece of work you go on this tangent about how you’re not going to give up never give up and then at the end you say I’m glad I didn’t stay up last night to watch the game. Woo hoo big Yankee fan you are, go pound sand

        • jjyank

          I’m sorry, but your authority is not recognized in Fort Kickass.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          So now we’re judging fandom on how many games you watch, and for how long. That’s fucking rich.

          News flash: I don’t watch every inning of every game. I don’t have to, nor do I care to live my life in that fashion. It doesn’t make me any less of a fan that I don’t.

      • PEDs

        You “soldier” on as a fan by not watching the games. Wow what a bad ass. LMAO

        • Winter

          Not everyone is capable of watching every inning of every game. I’m guessing R-Tils actually has to wake up for something in the morning.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            …..or I didn’t. Who gives a shit. I bet I’ve been to more games in the past five years than that jackass, and that’s counting not being able to go much in the past two years.

            • Pat D

              Quit using the kid as a shield!

              • Robinson Tilapia

                It ain’t the kid. It’s the lack of early morning sleep as a result of the kid.

                5:50 AM today. Woo-hoo!

          • trr

            Yeah, I mean come on, man…NOBODY watches every inning of every game.

            Even if the season totally goes in the crapper, I’ll still be watching, as most of us here will.

    • steves

      In 1978 there was no internet, no sports talk radio, just some games on TV (no cable to speak of) and just a handful of mostly insider and friendly beat writers. If you wanted to see stats you needed to get a copy of the Sunday papers or the Sporting News. Great attendance was considered 2 million. I’m sure the same % of people “gave up” then as do now but it was not as public and vocalized. Plus if the Yanks reeled off 10 wins in a row everyone would be back on board. Being a fan means being emotional, not carrying on with blind faith or blind stupidity. Stop being so high and fucking self-righteous mighty.

    • Guns

      Admitting to yourself that this team won’t be playing in the postseason doesn’t mean we stop being fans. This team isn’t nearly good enough to make the playoffs. There’s nothing wrong with accepting that. I’m a fan. Always have been a fan. Always will be a fan. There are plenty of reasons to watch and root for them. I want to see every game Mo pitches. I want to see every swing Robbie takes (I love his swing). I want to see A-Rod shove it in everyone’s face and somehow have a monster couple of months.

      I’ll do that because I love this team. I love baseball. But they’re not making the playoffs.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        No matter what we may argue about somewhere else on here, this absolutely made me smile.

      • jjyank

        I agree with you. They probably won’t make the playoffs, but that doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy baseball.

        Though I have stayed away from RAB lately. To me, seeing the massive whining by the ultra-entitled fans is more frustrating than watching my team go through a down year.

        • trr

          +1
          +1
          +1

          • Mandy Stankiewicz

            x1,000

      • jim p

        By their logic there are no real Chicago Cubs fans. Because they resign themselves to not winning early for most years.

  • fat jeter

    1. YES! I am even in favor of getting rid of one of the older outfielders and giving both Mesa and Almonte (when he’s healthy) more opportunities.

    2. Few if any. One of the more promising things for next year is the idea that we just may get alex’s contract off the books. Rooting for an unprecedented suspension is what I have been reduced to rooting for. Very disappointing.

    3. As loud as the anti-Cano crowd is, the more time I have to think about it, the more some of their narrative begins to ring true. Yes, he doesn’t run hard and he is very streaky. I dare not think what this offense looks like without him My bigger concern is what’s to be done with Granderson. Personally, don’t want him regardless of HR power. Unfortunately, I envision a QO or fat deal landing in his lap.

    4. I don’t really care about the NL, but I am pulling for the Pirates for some dumb reason.

    • Andrew

      Stop with the not running hard. That is absolutely not true. People always get on Cano about that and he runs just as hard as anyone else on the team. Out of all everyone says against him that has the least warrant.

      • fat jeter

        No, its pretty true. At least on softly hit grounders. he typically doesn’t bust ass down the line. I don’t think this should preclude him from a contract, but to say he runs hard all the time is incorrect. Fun with the internet: type “robinson cano doesn’t” into the google text box, “hustle” will be your first or second option. I am not trying to lynch the guy for it, but it is fairly common knowledge.

      • Craig Sagermetrics

        This is just patently false.

        Cano doesn’t hustle. It’s pretty easy to see that. In fact, I think this is the only gripe about him that actually has merit. He’s great in the field and great with the bat. His lack of hustle isn’t a huge issue in my eyes, but you can’t deny it exists.

        • jjyank

          I won’t deny that he doesn’t hustle every time, but I will say that it generally comes when it’s unnecessary. Yeah, yeah, I know, anything can happen in baseball. But I fully believe that if Cano busted down the line every play, he’d get like, 2-3 more hits over the course of the season. Is that worth having him maybe pop a hammy?

          Maybe some think so. But I don’t. Maybe instead of “no hustle”, it’s really just “conserving his energy”. Maybe Cano plays in less than 159+ games a year if he goes max effort all the time.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            There are few things I care about less than Robbie’s percieved level of hustle. Keeping it real.

      • Guns

        Yeah we have to call you out on this one… Cano doesn’t hustle. It is what it is.

      • Cacique

        He got thrown out at 2b on a clear double in the Chicago series because he was lolly gagging out of the box. He seems to have mental lapses at times & could be more fundamentally sound.

    • Kiko Jones

      As someone else said previously, we are witnessing the greatest 2B in Yankees history. A star in his prime, plays more than 150 games a year, and is stellar with both the bat and the glove. Could we lay off the dude a bit? Jeez…

      • fat jeter

        Not on his case for it. just bringing it up because its true. Not hustling is a pretty minor qualm and something I don’t necessary give a ton of merit towards — especially taking into account the numbers he puts up year in and year out.

    • Pat D

      You pull for the Pirates because they’ve been losers for so long, so they’re the ultimate underdogs.

      And they’re a lot more preferable to the Braves, Dodgers, Cardinals, Reds, Red Sox, Rays, Orioles, Tigers or Rangers.

      • fat jeter

        Its actually way weirder and dumber than that. My custom player in MLB the Show 2012 in the road to the show campaign was obviously built to be drafted by the Yankees. Halfway through my first season in a fairly impressive campaign as an 18 year old switch hitting centerfielder in Trenton, I was traded to the Pirates for Rod f’n Barajas. For that reason and that reason alone, I now have an affinity for the Pirates. told you it was dumb.

  • Eddard

    1. Agree 100%. The season is over. Call up those kids in September and get a good look at them. Cut Wells, cut Ichiro, cut Hafner, cut Joba, cut Hughes, cut em all.

    2. There is no silver lining to this season. Jeter said it best, it’s been an absolute nightmare and Cashman is to blame.

    3. The team should get younger and leaner, not older and slower. Signing Cano would mean him plodding down the 1st base line for another 7-8 years. They should let him walk and get under $189. Build for the future, not the past.

    4. If the Yankees aren’t involved I don’t care. I probably won’t even watch much of the playoffs.

  • Tim B

    Yanks cant go the playoffs and expect to win. A playoff team doesnt score 1-3 runs a game consistently. Joba’s trade value isnt getting any better. He can be traded for 2 prospects. Betances can be called up. Pat Venditte can also be called up soon. Gives the team another LHP & RHP. Hughes can be traded. Warren takes Hughes roster spot. Warren cant be any worse than Hughes as a starter. It could work out. Maybe trade with the Astros. Would like to see Brandon Laird back as a utility player. Maybe get Zach McAllister back. I would like to see Noesi back too.

    • Kosmo

      a brash sentimentalist !

    • Darren

      Pat Venditte and Brandon Laird are our saviors?

      That, sir, is the very definition of grasping at straws.

    • Cacique

      Most of th guys you mentioned are minor league dreck. Brandon Laird…gimme a break dude. I need some of what you are smoking, then maybe I could enjoy these games.

  • Nick

    They can call up JR Murphy too. He’s had more AAA at bats than Adams or Romine had prior to being recalled. Of course there’s the queation of where to play him- a couple days a week at catcher and maybe 1b or Of instead of wellserbay? Other than that, I agree that there’s not much to do.

    As far as the ’78 comparison above-this team doesn’t have Reggie/Thurman/etc. it’s simply not as good

  • Andrew

    No one seems to be realizing the real reason Cano’s numbers aren’t as good as they are last year… he has had absolutely no one hitting behind him in the lineup for the entire year. He’s had either Vernon Wells or Lyle Overbay hitting behind him for the entire year, and I don’t think I have to post those guys numbers to tell you how bad they’ve been. Everyone seems to be missing the fact that Cano is THE ONLY hitter in the Yankees lineup who can actually do anything on offense so pitchers don’t give him anything good to hit. The fact that he puts up the numbers he does in this terrible lineup is amazing and a testament to his great hitting ability.

    • Improbable Island’s Dirty Midget Whores

      Actually, they’re not as good because he’s been slumping.

      Seriously, we go through this every damn time. He’ll start hitting again soon.

      • Guns

        Agreed. He’ll go on some ungodly hot streak at get his usual numbers. Like September last season. That was crazy.

      • jjyank

        Can’t it be a little of both? I generally think that protection in the line up is overstated, but I do think there is some effect there.

    • Kiko Jones

      Absolutely. No. Protection.

  • Mike HC

    I have a feeling Cano is going to go on one of his patented late season hot streaks to end the year.

  • Fernando

    I thought the team needed to rebuild for a while now. Too much time spent on Triple AAA/injury risk types like Ishikawaa, Lillibridge, Luis Cruz, Boesch, Nix, Brignac, Chris Stewart, Vernon Wells, Ben Francisco, Alberto Gonzalez, Travis Hafner, Kevin Youklis and Lyle Overbay.

    Have Been advocating bringing up Betances and maybe even Whitley to see what they can do. No need to see any more from Joba and Hughes, as they have no future here.

    Make qualifiying offer to Granderson for pick. Very risky to make offer to Hughes. I think he heads to SD to pitch on the West Coast with his buddy and ex-teammate Ian Kennedy.

    Resign Kuroda if he wants to come back, but time to move on from Andy Pettitte.

    Very disappointing year both at the ML level and on the farm.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Well, they had zero choice with some of that above. They were down to Options D and E at some of those positions, and that’s what those options look like for any team. That’s why guys like that hang around baseball.

      Agreed on Joba. When good, or even medium, Hughes shows up, he does serve this team some purpose the rest of the way, even if its keeping the pen rested.

      Getting Curtis to accept the QO as a “value-bulding” measure for himself, and bringing back Kuroda, should be huge. I don’t think Andy comes back, but there is potential mid-rotation help that can be brought in with some of the extra Alex money.

      Disappointing year. Sure. Not over yet, and it was certainly within the realm of possibility going into the season that this is where we’d be.

  • RedRoan

    I would like to see what the Yanks have in Almonte (when he returns from injury), Adams, Mesa, and JR Murphy – but NYY admin won’t let it happen. A team taking on faded stars – many for 2 year commitments – like NYY is not going to signal defeat to the fanbase by playing rookies. Yanks won’t cut Soriano, Ichiro, Wells at least until next season (looking like a carbon copy of this season, unfortunately).

    I would like to see NYY re-sign Cano because he is their best hitter, still, and he has good range and an incredible arm. I do think he lollygags a bit but I can live with it for what he gives. Who could they get to replace him???

    I personally have seen enough of Hughes. I would like to see them put him in the pen and throw Joba back in the rotation. Tell Joba to go as hard as he can, using all his pitches and if he blows up, who cares? He wants to start next year, give him a chance to showcase for another team and maybe catch lightning in a bottle for half a season. I would take 5 innings of 4+ ERA Joba every 5 days over Hughes in a heartbeat. Yes, I know it won’t happen, yes I know Joba has sucked out of the pen – but again, let him use all his pitches and lift any restrictions on his innings/pitch count and just let him throw it all out there, might be better than Hughes.

  • pat

    Would absolutely LOVE to watch this team play out the string with as many rookies getting as much PT as possible. Give Mesa RF, Adams 3B, Nunez SS, Romine C, call up Dellin and let the kids run wild.

    • Selig is a self serving hypocrite (formerly not the droids you’re looking for…)

      Exactly. If anything I agree with this post and then some. Kids. Lots and lots of kids. Playing their hearts out, just so we can see.

      • Kramerica Industries

        Houston Astros here we come!

      • Robinson Tilapia

        The issue is that, with a few of those guys mentioned, we’ve seen….and seen…..and seen.

        I’ve seen enough Eduardo Nunez for this lifetime AND my next one.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    Positive spins I can think of:

    1. Tightness that has been ruled out aside, Michael Pineda is healthy.

    2. There appears to be potential signs of actual growth from Ivan Nova that actually stand a chance of possibly being sustained.

    3. Slade Heathcott is healthy, showing improvement in the second half of the season, and in line to move up to AAA sometime next season.

    4. The money saved from Alex’s suspension could be a gift from God, especially if they continue with the 189 plan.

    5. JR Murphy took a massive step forward. Jose Ramirez has taken a step forward. Gary Sanchez appears to be holding his own and is now in AA. Yankees added strongly to the system with the three first-rounders, although those careers are in their infancy.

    6. Claiborne, Warren, Kelley. Yes. Potentially Zoilo and some signs of life from Romine.

    Yeah, the Alex stuff is really the biggest for me, and none of these are massive dial-movers and beneficial mostly since it allows for spots to be filled by what look to be competent major leaguers in some areas, while finally giving the team some of that actual talent in AAA which we get whining about every day by next season. Still, though, you have a chance as a fan. You can choose to harp on the negative 100% of the time, or you can choose to do something other than that.

    • Selig is a self serving hypocrite (formerly not the droids you’re looking for…)

      Crazy to think how different this team can look in 2014 and especially in 2015. Soooo many people (and so much $) coming off the books, a few current MiLB guys come up, a FA or two and all of a sudden it’s like who the fuck are these guys?!? Like this season, but hopefully with people who can, you know, win games.

  • Lukaszek

    Honestly I think Cano’s somewhat low numbers are more a product of his recent slump than anything. He’s actually gotten better with age

  • dasani

    Summing up this road
    trip, this season,this team in one word; PATHETIC

  • emac2

    Giving up on the season doesn’t mean you stop trying, hoping or believing. It means that you stop mortgaging the future in hopes of winning this year and start playing some of the young players instead of the old players. It’s not like the old players have been playing well enough to win so trying the kids can just as easily be viewed as trying something when the current plan has been proven not to work.

    I would bring up Adonis Garcia, Ronnier and JR while cutting Overbay, Wells and Joba. I would carry the third catcher so that I could pinch hit more often but would have Stewart serve as the third catcher that comes in after the pinch hitter.

    I don’t think I would resign Cano. If the team isn’t going to be very good for a few years it doesn’t make sense to sign someone who will be entering the albatross years when the team is ready to contend. I’m also concerned that the financially anointed leader of the team would be someone who can’t even hustle in his free agent year. The fact is he is worth far more to a contending team than he is to the Yanks. He’ll get a contract where a team will eat a couple of late years in order for what they view as a final piece for the next 2 or 3 years. I think there are better ways to spend that 100 plus million.

    My plan for next year would be to tender Kuroda and Cano but not to go over 2 years for Kuroda and not more than 4 for Cano though I might consider an option. I might tender Granderson depending on how he finishes the year.

    Next year I would expect to start an outfield of Ichiro, Gardner and Garcia

    An Infield of Tex, Adams, Nunez and Ronnier

    Jeter at DH and SS

    JR and Romine at catcher

    I would stop signing old guys and instead cycle through a bunch of young guys and some salary dump trades.

    Mid season I would hope to promote Sanchez, Heathcott and Austin.

    Basically, I would rebuild with youth for a year or two before spending on a couple of big names when we are ready to compete.

  • Kosmo

    2 months ago I´d have gone 6 yrs 135 million with Cano´s next contract. 1st and last offer. Now 6 years 120.
    This has been stated many times here on RAB, NY could better utilize the money they would lose resigning Cano if they redirected it towards 2014 FA.

    • The Real Greg

      But who is there to sign. That’s the problem. There are no quality free agents out there because of revenue sharing and teams locking up players.

      Having the most money to spend doesn’t mean as much anymore as it used to.

      • Kosmo

        Morales-Ellsbury-Garza-McCann will all be 30 yrs old in 2014 and all are available FA. They are all very good.

  • NYPLATOONS

    HEY Yesnetwork forum fools. DO YOU FINALLY SEE IT LIKE I BEEN TELLIN YA’LL SINCE THE OFFSEASON.

    =)
    Man know baseball!

    • jjyank

      ANTS! Terrible horrible ants!

    • pat

      HEY GUYS LOOK NYPLATOONS IS BACK.

    • Pat D

      Quit running! We’ve gotta keep that heart rate down!!

  • first name only male – Retire 21

    If Cano signs elsewhere and Kuroda decides to call it a career, that would make the most depressing Yankee team of my lifetime. (I’m 34)

  • mt

    1) I wonder if Yanks will have the guts to trade/DFA one of Wells, Soriano, and Ichiro even though Wells and Soriano in 2014 are “cheap” due to their former teams picking up salary. I do not think 2014 team should have both Gardner and Ichiro on it.

    2) How realistic is it that Grandy will really take a one year pillow contract from Yankees – won’t there be at least one team that will offer him $20-25 million for 2 years?

    3) Would we have the guts to trade Gardner in his walk year for either a couple of young guys where we have control for several years or one ML player for 2014 contention (someone like Asdrubral Cabrera who also is a 2015 free agent). I am increasingly worried that no free agent pitcher, even a returning one like Kuroda, will want to pitch for a team with statues Jeter and Arod (and playing Nunez and Nix is not the answer.) I know sabermetric stats say Asd. Cabrera is not all that good but I get the sense players think he is good in field.

    4) Yanks need CC and Teix to be better and to resign Cano to a reasonable contract – if CC continues to be a fifth starter we are in trouble no matter machinations what we do. That being said, if CC can be more like a #2 we have a shot. I also say re-sign Kuroda (if he wants to play in Us in 2014) but let’s be honest, he is old also – does’nt he have a high possibility of immediately falling off of a cliff next year, also?

    5) I said this in another thread but next year will be a lot uglier if Arod’s suspension gets reduced. I am very worried that suspension will get reduced to 65-75 games especially since Braun also did massive lying (admittedly about one time period, as opposed to supposed length of time period Arod’s lying) and Melky got zero games for the fake website (which one could consider more serious than trying to buy documents that have been offered to you to save you from embarassment where MLB turns around and buys those same documents.) Also it was interesting the “recruitment” angle was removed from the MLB press release as an accusation and then I find that the main thread connecting a lot of the players was an agent(can’t remember hsi name but it was a Hispanic surname) who worked for ACES agency.

    Not only will the money Yanks have available to them next year shrink if Arod’s suspension reduced but Arod’s potential extra $6 million HR kicker for 660 HRs will be something that will have to be incorporated. As someone mentioned, if baseball wants to dock first timers for multiple non-analytical uses, then MLB needs to write that into the next CBA drug program and not give Bud such discretion. As Jon Heyman wrote in his (stupid) column yesterday is Arod being targeted for “chutzpah” (i.e., his bold faced lying over several years)? I do not like Arod who is a jerk but still wonder if arbitrator will reduce suspension by a large margin – remember how the “air-tight” Bountygate eventually turned out. Also a November/December suspension resolution hurts Yanks in budgeting for Free agency which starts in November.

    6) That being said, I had visions yesterday (again assuming CC a reliable #2 and Teix above average at plate, two big ifs) of 2014 not being so awful if with whatver “savings” we get from Arod suspension, we could sign McCann and Choo, resign Kuroda (or someone like him – not sure who that someone is), trade for Headley/Cabrera (some SS or 3B who can play defense), and make our bullpen all young farm system guys (assuming the $189 mm is still in effect.)

    7) I’d love to know what Hal/Hank will think of next 49 games, especially ones at YS3 – it could get very ugly/empty. In a strange way, will that make them even more desperate to re-sign Cano (and horribly overpay?) Is $189 mm plan really at risk if thing get ugly?

    • dkidd

      soriano to texas

      make it happen!

  • Brian S.

    Too bad we didn’t trade Kuroda at the deadline. He could have fetched a great prospect.

  • dkidd

    it’s all about the draft pick

    the red sox had the right idea last year: tank (which involves playing the kids, so it’s a win-win!)

  • stuart a

    to bad Almonte got hurt would like to see what he has also ditto for Cervelli, Phelps, mustelier, and there tribulations.

    phelps has been OK but need to see more. Hope betances gets a chance assume he is a september call up.

    i am much older then 34 so I have seen many worse days then this.. this is minor league bad…jerry kinney, horace clarke, celrino sanchez, tartabull, and on. been a fan for over 45 years….

    if they show patience, stop the pay for old guy policy, they will be fine. things can turn around quickly in baseball these days. looks like austin, williams, and heathcott are still at least a year away and huge ? marks but murphy and sanchez appear to be progressing well and this years draft definitely adds depth to the system..

    • http://Riveravenueblues.com Marty L

      Been a fan since ’55. Have seen worse then this but that was way back in middle and late 60’s.This team, at close to full strength, is an 85-90 win team. Now, wil finish somewhere around 500 give or take a few. Hey, remember Charlie Smitn, Rich McKinney, Bobby Cox. Yes, that Boby Cox.

      • Kiko Jones

        The same Bobby Cox who can say he was a teammate of both Mantle and Munson, and first base coach for the ’77 and ’78 WS, correct?

  • Leg-End

    Jeter, A-Rod, Youkilis, Teixeira, Granderson. Hard to believe that we have got just 270 plate appearances between all of them, ALL OF THEM. 270!

    It’s a miracle we got this far and we should have been sellers at the deadline, if not major sellers we should have moved Cano for a kings ransom. There were simply too many obstacles to overcome and we tried to patch it together in some stupid hope we could still compete. As soon as Granderson/Tex returned and got re-injured right away we were doomed. It would have sucked to have to sell in Mo’s last season but we have been blessed with so much sucess during his time I’m sure we could have swallowed a bad final year for the sake of the teams future, I bet he would too.

    Instead we enter 2014 with bad players on the books, no major league ready young talent, Cano either re-upping for big money or walking away, Mo retiring, Jeter getting old, A-Rod banned, three thirds of the rotation empty, a mediocre free agent market and owners that are adamant about sticking to a budget that may or may not be reachable. I’m not confident about our shoth-medium term future at all.

  • Robert

    Lets give Slade and JR Murphy a call up.They both are old enough to find out now if they can play at the big league level.Enough of the old timers.
    We need to find a new core 4!!!

  • stuart a

    arod will get more time then braun. his role in trying to thwart the investigation is much greater from what I hear.

    assume arod gets 100 + games that will help a ton wit hthe $189 #.

    as bad as tex has been the last few years man he is a huge upgrade over OVerbay..another righty bat who has some pop….

    SOriana should not be looked at as a waste like wells and ichiro. wells is by far the worse in that trifecta by far. ichiro as a 4th or 5th outfielder is OK.. soriano has a lot of flaws but the guy can still hit homeruns. I think he is a net positive..

    a reasonable hope for next years lineup would be

    1b tex
    2B crapo (6 years $120 mill)
    SS jeter and nunez
    3B ??? love to get headley. even though down year, still 28 or so, switch hitter, etc.

    LF grandy
    CF gardner
    RF ? hopefully not ichiro
    DH Soriano

    get a long term 3b and get 1 outfielder and they will be OK.. Again Tex is much better then OVerbay and they have had grandy for 20 games or so…

    pitching pen is going to be strong even without MO.

    ROtatio is a big ?? .

    Starting ; phelps, cc, nova, pineda, nuno, kutoda(?), and others…

    Banuelos will be back and we will have to see. This is not exactly the 98 Yanks by could be worse and they have time. They do need aroid to see a long suspension and that will help the team a ton..

    • Robinson Tilapia

      You need to stop letting nycsportzfan write your comments, stuart.

      Other than that, no, I don’t see it as dire. I see it as a second chance at 2013, in many ways, with what is hopefully some extra money from Alex and an extra year’s worth of experience from the young players, a post-recovery Pineda, etc.

      I agree that 3B will have to be addressed and that the FA market offers nothing there. The market does offer some in the way of mid-rotation starters. It’d be nice for some of the extra money to go there in order to replace Andy. There is the chance for better assorted pieces to round things out and not have to go high-risk assuming the ass-end of other teams’ bad deals.

      Agreed on Sori.

      • Pat D

        No, that type of post is becoming DI’s trademark.

        Assuming he didn’t get banned after the other night.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          As long as there’s words beginning with “I” and ending with “S” that can be stuck after the word “Duh,” there will always be room.

          • Pat D

            Hey, I can dream!

    • Lukaszek

      Who is this Crapo guy? I tried to look him up, but all that came up was Mike Crapo who is apparently a senator. I don’t know if you can convert someone from Senate to Second Base, but that’s a very risky experiment. Honestly, I’d rather have us pay that money to our current second baseman Cano. Besides, Mike Crapo is 62 years old, which would make him the fourth oldest player on the Yankees. Not a good idea for the youth movement.

      • jim p

        Senators are usually tethered to playing their Home State Base, and they usually use gavels rather than bats. More suited for cricket or croquet than baseball I’d think.

        On the other hand we could always sign him, and then some other older guys and make him like the tenth oldest or so. Think creatively!

  • Betty Lizard

    At the start of this season, I did my annual “what’s my hope for the Yankees this year?” “What has to happen for me to consider the season ‘a success’?”

    Usually, this is some variation of “the Yankees are in a playoff game . . .”

    This year it was any one of three things: Andy pitched a superlative game OR the Yankees were in a playoff game OR the Yankees won a game . . .

    So, once the Yankees won a game, I was good. That, plus The Triple Play plus The Return of Arod and I’m really OK with this season. I’ve seen some wonderful baseball. I’ll probably see some more and I will dream about next year.

    It’s a process. Mistakes have their own beauty. There is drama and sometimes grace. I always have hope that we’ll win.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      “There is drama and sometimes grace.”

      Can I hug you, Betty?

      • Betty Lizard

        Any time!

  • Charles

    Mark Reynolds just got DFAd, odds that he’s claimed by the Yankees by the end of the week for a RH platoon bat with Overbay?

  • Pat D

    Here are my random thoughts following last night’s loss:

    1. So many go to bed hungry in this nation, yet cat food is full of tuna. I can’t help but think each time I go to the zoo and see those porpoises, crammed into those tiny tanks, what a waste that is. Butcher half of them now! That’s hundreds of pounds of dolphin meat that can be fed to our cats, freeing up that tuna for our nation’s hungry.

    2. So many are cold, shivering in the night, so I say, take those cats, and skin them! Use their fur to keep hundreds warm!

    • emac2

      Sicko!

      Why waste cat meat when so many are hungry?

    • Lukaszek

      There better be a porpoise to this comment

  • Joe

    Why does Cano get a pass for the 0-30 or whatever he had in the ALCS? He is simply not a dominant player. He is extremely talented but not a 20 million dollar player. Fans do not come to the ballpark or turn on the tv to watch robinson cano, hence the poor attendance and YES ratings. The yanks would be foolish to give him any type of long term contract. If they truly are on a budget it would be incredibly irresponsible to dump a ton of money into one player when there are multiple glaring holes that must be filled. I really hope the front office is paying attention to what is going on here. Sometimes you have to wonder if they are.

    And is granderson going to just keep striking out every at bat. He is barely a competent major league hitter. he’d be lucky to get a two year deal at this point. The Tigers murdered everyone in that trade.

  • Al

    Indians Designate Mark Reynolds For Assignment
    By Steve Adams [August 8 at 10:39am CST]
    The Indians have designated Mark Reynolds for assignment, according to MLB.com’s Brittany Ghiroli (on Twitter). Right-hander Preston Guilmet, who had a 1.95 ERA with 10.4 K/9 and 2.1 BB/9 in 55 1/3 innings at Triple-A Columbus, will be recalled to take his roster spot.

    Reynolds, 30, signed a one-year, $6MM contract with Cleveland this offseason after the Orioles declined his $11MM club option and non-tendered him in November. He earned $7.5MM last season, and MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz had projected Reynolds to earn $8.9MM through the arbitration process, so his contract with the Tribe represented a notable pay cut.

    Reynolds sprinted out of the gates at a blazing pace this April, hitting .301/.368/.651 with eight homers on the month. Since May 1, however, the slugger is hitting just .187/.287/.282 with seven home runs in 289 plate appearances. The former 16th-round draft pick has never been able to recreate his 2009 breakout campaign with the D’Backs, during which he hit .260/.349/.543 with 44 homers and 24 stolen bases.

  • Shittyshittybangbang

    Mr. Cano has Los Yankees by the cojones. Once they decided against trading Cano, they were left with only one real option. At this point, They can’t let him walk for a pick. He waited them out, they vacillated, hesitated, and are in the proverbial corner. Cano knows it, and his management as well. 8 years ~ 180, 190mm.

    • Poconos Adam

      I wish you were wrong……

      but…..

      He can’t get through waivers, so no deal is possible.

      Yup — HUGE contract so we can have $50+ million tied up in two players (when Alex isn’t suspended do to some technicality).

  • stuart a

    granderson has flaws like soriano but he is a valuable player. his extra base capabilities are huge.

    cano has no 1 by the balls. $180 mill for him, no THANK YOU. he can walk. WHere is he getting more money then the Yanks would pay? Boston? no chance. LA no chance…

    lock the crew cut steinbrenner in the basement during negotiations..

    granderson qualify, hughes(at this moment ) i would not qualify.

    Pettitte is of course retiring and so is MO. Jeter will be back but why would he want to go thru this 1 more year. If he is banged up the rest of the year any chance he reconsiders? I put the odds at 10%.. Players never know when to say bye…

  • AC

    I still wouldn’t give Cano 7 + years to stay. The LAD will I’m sure. Just don’t see him as a leader and “you have to sign him” thing. Is he really a leader? He’s 31. Not 25. Guys we have to hit the reset button sooner or later. Bringing the sane team back minus a few isn’t going to win the east. This team just cannot hit with RISP. They should have traded Hughes and Joba at dealing and get some kind of return. Tired of hearing prospects we have are 3-4 years away. We hear this every year. Need to get younger. Let Cash work his magic and do something.

    • Freeze130

      It’s August 8th and the season’s a bust. I’ve come to terms with better now than October like last year. They win the division and lose four straight to the Tigers. Better to start rebuilding thoughts now than late October

  • Mikhel

    It is not his age, he is lazy and it is playing it safe to avoid an injury and still ask for 20-30 millions per year.

    There are players who are not very good for a few years, and suddenly have an awesome season in their free-agency year, with Canó he has been really good but now he doesn’t want to risk it, he doesnt play at the same level of enthusiasm he plays with the DR team.

    The guy has good stats, but this season is proof he is not a game changer, same thing with Granderson, both of them usually hit when there’s nobody on base.