Cashman says Yankees will look into unproductive farm system

Fan Confidence Poll: September 30th, 2013
Olney: Yankees will have to give Girardi "significant" raise

Via Bob Klapisch: Brian Cashman acknowledged the Yankees will look to address their unproductive farm system and player development issues in the coming weeks. “I understand why people are bringing that up, and it’s something we’re going to be looking at,” said the GM. “I have no problem dealing with reality … We’re not going to the playoffs, we’re not good enough to be there. We don’t belong there. The key is to find a way to get back. That’s not foreign to us. Sometimes things don’t go the way you planned, but you have to keep getting back up.”

Hal Steinbrenner called a staff meeting to discuss the team’s farm system issues a few weeks ago, and, not surprisingly, Joel Sherman hears “there has been frustration and anger [at the highest levels of the organization] about the lack of young talent available this season as injuries mounted.” Sherman says it is believed amateur scouting director Damon Oppenheimer and VP of Baseball Ops Mark Newman are most likely to be replaced if changes are made, and changes should be made. Outside of some relievers and bench players, the Yankees have gotten nothing from their player development system in recent years. It’s gone on too long to ignore.

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Fan Confidence Poll: September 30th, 2013
Olney: Yankees will have to give Girardi "significant" raise
  • Chris Z.

    I thought Damon Oppenheimer was a smart guy on the player development side?

    • Slugger27

      i dont believe hes involved with player development at all. and outside of one draft 6 years ago (and arguably this last one but that is yet to be seen), his drafts have been brutal

  • mike

    In other breaking news, Mr. Cashman also announced he has finally realized the earth is round, and he will be looking at the reasons why he did not believe the earth was round for the past ten years.

    • NYPLATOONS 85 Wins Ding Ding!

      ^^^^ BOOM VERY WELL SAID!

    • toad

      +1

  • NYPLATOONS 85 Wins Ding Ding!

    This is a lollygagger as if they would give these kids a shot it would be the same ol. Playing a 40 year old and letting the kid rot in the minors. Little to late now Cashaman now that Mo and Andy and just about the rest of em gone you wanna worry about this NOW. Where was your head when 10 years ago?

  • John M

    I agree. It is time to start looking at the player development/scouting. Some questionable draft picks are obvious: Culver, Bichette Jr. are notable. Plus, I’d look at the training staff because there were many injuries. Coaching has to be included too. Not enough prospects making a leap.

    Looking forward to seeing some change.

    • Caballo Sin Nombre

      I suspect I’m the only person on RAB who is “long” on Cito Culver (I also suspect I’m the only person on RAB who has extensively studied statistics while at MIT, but nevermind that). He just became an altogether better player once he got used to hitting exclusively right-handed. It’s too bad we can’t set up a betting pool on this…

      • Robinson Tilapia

        How about that other guy who cliamed an advanced degree in statstics and icantevenremembertheotherword.

      • BeanTooth

        This reply’s going to turn me into Joe Morgan.

      • hogsmog

        Wow, what a toolish comment. It figures; those poor applied mathematicians need all the ego boosts they can scrounge up.

        • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

          +1

          They have insecurity issues; it’s to be expected.

      • Tom

        What course were you?

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona

      People really need to stop worrying about DBJ. He was the 51st draft pick. He was a 1st round pick in name only, in reality he was a latter 2nd round pick.

  • http://randb.com Michael Cutler

    Way too fucking long. . .pardon my French Mike. .

  • Not Eddard

    Cashman has 1 year left on his deal and, apparently, his strategy to keep his job is to offer human sacrifices to the bloodthirsty Hal god. Question: Newman has been in the organization for 25 years, Damon for a decade. Why did it take a meeting with upper management for Cashman to decide they needed to be replaced? All of a sudden their work was unacceptable? Or maybe Cashman hadn’t noticed until the past few weeks? In truth, this all reflects badly on Cashman’s lack of planning and, most importantly, vision.

    • vincenzo

      awesome comment

    • pounder

      Actually,if we are going the blame route,you must question why the Boss could not foresee the pitfalls that lay ahead.

  • Frank

    It hasn’t been way too long… It wasn’t even a year ago that most here were gushing about this farm system. The fact is, and this is the most unfortunate consequence of this losing seasons, the farm system was exposed for what it is/was: not impressive.

    • qwerty

      Yup, these are who I call the delusionists.

    • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

      I don’t remember anyone gushing about the farm system last year. Its been pretty much the same here for the last 3 years. People may have hoped ManBan or Dellin were on the verge of a breakthrough. But it’s pretty much uniiversal around these parts for the last 5 years that the farm system sucks donkeyballs.

  • YankeeGrunt

    Let’s be realistic, the Cardinals couldn’t have replaced the players we lost this year. The injuries and austerity plan hit during a lull in prospect progression, but the Yankees knew it was coming. They knew they had three or four top prospects a couple years ago and they knew the next batch (Heathcott, Austin, Sanchez and Williams) had an ETA of 2015 or so. I’d be more upset about DO than Newman, they’re drafting reasonably well on the whole and do seem to be running into problems with prospect development. Either way it’s dumb of the Yankees to make a decision because Hal opened his mouth a few months ago and feels compelled to act now rather than because they’re not happy with what they’re getting out of the system.

    • John M

      While you expect the yanks not to make a poor decision because of one meeting from Hal, something has to give. There are enough prospects in the system but not advancing at a pace the team would’ve liked. So where does the blame fall? That’s more on the coaching side isn’t it?

      • YankeeGrunt

        Very possibly, but as I said this was a lull they could have forecast a couple years ago (and probably did). Williams, Sanchez and maybe Austin (Heathcott having yet to put together a healthy season) were looking like they’d be MLB-ready by 2015 or so, 2014 at the earliest.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Several years ago, we were, in fact, talking about how the team had made strides in drafting pitching but had an absence of position prospects in the system. That’s no longer the case. This is why I feel a whole lot of what people want “looked at” was looked at already.

          You’re absolutely right on this, but everyone wants guys who were never expected to be fast risers to be Manny Machado.

    • Dick M

      I’m not sure I would call it a lull. It’s more like a long drought.

      Cano and Gardner are the only real position players developed in the last 10 years. Starting pitching development is even worse.

      The new deal is develop or bust. We can’t buy our way out of it anymore.

  • Laz

    Isn’t Oppenheimer largely responsible for the draft?

  • yooboo

    I would be extremely happy if both Newman and Oppenheimer are gone. Both sucked. Good Riddance!

  • tmoney

    Im actually excited to see who develops next year. There is alot of talent in the low minors and if they can get through next year with less injuries this team could have the highest ranked system in baseball at the end of next season. The nice thing too is there are both position prospects and pitching. Hensley, Banuelos, Campos, Depaula,Clarkin and Ramirez all have the tools to be potential top starters and if Heathcott, Austin, Sanchez, Williams, Jagiello, Judge, Katoh and Bird come along this could be a historically good farm system with a ton of players that could be top 100 prospects.

    • YankeeGrunt

      They’re not going to be the highest ranked and a lot of teams have exciting prospects in the low minors, it is getting them from the low minors to the high minors (where they have trade value) and ultimately to the MLB that is the problem. I agree, this team has done a pretty good job of adding talent over the last few years. But whether it is just injuries or bad luck or something lacking in our development program we’re not turning many of them into top prospects.

      • tmoney

        Its obviously been injuries on the pitching end. Who knows if it is bad luck or bad development. I know I dont. We have obviously seen signs of bad development in the past ie Joba but can not say one way or the other on the injuries from this past season. I disagree that they dont have the potential to have one of the best systems after next year though. Banuelos, Ramirez, Heathcott, Austin, Sanchez and Williams could all be in AAA at he end of next year and a few of the lower level prospects could move quickly depending on performance.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          “We have obviously seen signs of bad development in the past ie Joba”

          How is that obvious? The fact that he suffered injuries at the MLB level, and has sucked in his…..fifth or sixth year as an MLB pitcher is bad player development? I understand the upsetness with Joba Chamberlain, but that’s bad Joba Chamberlain, not bad whatever was done with him in the minors. Joba was one of the faster risers through the system.

    • Mister D

      Every team can make a list of prospects with the same wish. A lot can make even better lists than the one you made.

      • Mister D

        Looks like I should have hit refresh.

      • tmoney

        Im not a prospect hugger. I’m just stating that these prospects have the tools and potential to be above average or better major league players. They havent had this many players on any level with this potential since the early/mis 90s.

        • Mister D

          What about 5 or 6 years ago when Hughes, Joba, IPK, Brackman and Betances were all in the minors or just graduated and Jackson, Montero and Tabata were future hitting studs?

        • Chris Z.

          “I’m just stating that these prospects have the tools and potential to be above average or better major league players”

          So do every other teams prospects. Thats why they were drafted.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    Nice vague statement there, but what does that really mean?

    We knew the team was playing catch-up with position players for several years now. How do you “look at” a half to full year of regression, or adjustment to level, from prospects who were never consider quick risers to begin with? Unless you began watching baseball in the past few years, we knew this system was lacking in position players years ago. They now have several potential high-upside players (read about them in the DOTF comment section every night) in the system who aren’t going to develop any faster because someone is “looking at” them.

    I’d like for someone to look closer as to whether there are commonalities between young pitchers getting injured, reinjured, and facing long recoveries in our system. Our system would look quite differently if Banuelos, Campos, and Hensley were able to develop per a normal schedule, and if Michael Pineda didn’t face a zillion questions during his first spring training, which ultimately led to surgery AND re-injury. What do I think that means? I have no clue, but it’s still a lot of injury, re-injury, and time spent at home instead of on a mound.

    I like that it’s all being talked about at least, and it is a topic that we haven’t heard anything from other than fans in reason years. I guess that’s a plus, even if this is painting with the widest brush possible right now.

    • tmoney

      I think they bypassed the brush and went straight to the roller! This has been two season in a row with a plethora of pitching prospects who were showing no signs of injury issues going down with injuries. bad luck or something else?

      • Robinson Tilapia

        ….and we honestly have no clue whether they’ve looked at it, why it happened, etc. I just think that, if we’re going to be saying “well, what went wrong with the system,” that’s what I didn’t like. It could be bad luck. It could be completely prudent medical procedure that just went bad and cost guys over a year of time. I don’t like that it happened.

        This whole “why don’t we have guys ready in AAA to step in” nonsense is silly. You don’t have them because we all already knew you didn’t draft them back then and that the guys you drafted earlier have to actually make their way through the minors.

  • Frank

    The system is not barren, but they just can’t seem to get a steady carousel going whereby they can lose a player or two on the MLB team each year and replace at least one of those with a young player from their system…or use their kids to make the replacement via trade. There is no high end SP on the way unless you include banuelos who is coming off of TJS. I don’t until he’s back out there showing he’s not a totally different pitcher. After that…depaula and hensley and campos and clarkin…long way away. The three outfields…meh. They all have their warts. Sanchez will hopefully be legit, but one of romine/murphy needs to be able to beat out a stewart, I mean..come on.

    It’s hysterical that they’re reacting like this is a new problem. They haven’t drafted/developed an all-star that I can remember since Cano…what is that almost 10 years ago? They have drafted decently, I guess, but made plenty of inexcusable picks (Culver/Bichette) and seen WAY too many kids get hurt. Have they had a single pitcher NOT get TJS?

    • tmoney

      Dont forget Ramirez. Very good stuff IMHO.

  • Hal Stein

    Don’t worry loyal Yankee money makers.

    I am about to spend around $350+ Million dollars this offseason on Cano – Kuroda – Abreu – Choo – McCann – Tanaka – and a few other goodies.

    We will be back in the World Series next year… Take my word for it and reserve your season tickets now!!!!

    • tmoney

      Please send your Yacht to Cuba and get us some talent! I hear Puig has a little sister that rakes on the wiffle ball circuit!!!

    • jjyank

      Your schtick wasn’t funny in the last thread either.

      • Hal Stein

        My “schtick” wasn’t meant to be funny.

        Don’t forget to buy your season tickets… I hear there’s a few Legend seats available!

        • jjyank

          What’s it meant to be then, besides a waste of pixels?

          • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

            Agreed. That shit is weak.

          • Hal Stein

            Alright JJYank, so you want to play some hardball huh?… I was going to be a kind owner and offer you a 2% discount on your first installment payment on a pair of legend suite tickets but NOT ANYMORE. For your first installment payment I want the full 10K per ticket AND you have to drive up to my house in the Hamptons where our new star DH Jose Abreu will give you a swift roshambo to your nards.

            Don’t mess with “The Bossett”

            • jjyank

              F minus.

              • Hal Stein

                Want to go on a date with me later?

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              No one even knows wtf you’re trying to accomplish here.

              • Robinson Tilapia

                He’s kind of getting it. He’s gotten a rise out of all three of us.

                • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                  I’m honestly just confused. There was no rise.

                  • Robinson Tilapia

                    We responded. That’s all they ever want. We could just respond with *fart* and that’d be enough.

                    • The Big City of Dreams

                      Exactly it would have made more of an impact to not respond. It’s like when someone sends you a text and you’re not on good terms with them so the text just sits there. You know they are sitting there pulling their hair out.

  • Nathan

    They can say that they’re going to look into it just to make everyone happy but the process of improving the farm system is going to take years to change and especially years to notice any improvement.

    But yes, to say the farm system needs help and an overhaul is an understatement.

  • entonces

    This all seems like scapegoating to me. Yanks have produced numerous major league players in recent years — including Nova, D-Rob, Clippard, Melancon etc.
    The problem is not with development — it’s with upper management — that maans you, Brian and you Joe — that do not allow these kids to develop at major league level. Romine, for example, was well beneath the Mendoza line playing once a eek. But his performance improved with playing time. Nunez, who everyone loves to bash, hit extremely well the last two months of the season. Nunez’ batting average was Aactually a remarkable 20 points higher than any other Yankee in yesterday’s lineup. Obviously, he’s had injuries and defensive issues. But he’s proved to be a pretty useful offensive player. And an example of the kind of rewards that come from patience. Warren and Betances seem like developing cases in point as well. I can only hope that Murphy and Almonte are not judged by the relatively meaningless SSS numbers of their rookie tryout seasons.
    Blaming Oppenheimer for Girardi’s unwillingness to go with youngsters is missing the point. One of the oldest management practices in the book: fire the scapegoats and leave the real offenders in place.

    • Mike

      I’ll give you D-Rob and Nova he’s a servicable3 or 4 , Clippard and Melancon BLOW …

      The Problem is with drafting and development. With all the young kids coming up due to the injuries. Almonte , Romine , Adams ,Nunez…… , ,NOT one FUCKING kid could break through and prove he belongs in the Majors as a future staple with the Yanks???

      Give me a break . Girardi gave these kids PLENTY of time and chances to prove themselve ….

      Further more . .Im fucking done with some on here BOASTING about our kids down below… He can hit . . He can run . .He can pitch… yeah BULLSHIT !!

      I’ll believe it when I see it at Yankee Stadium

      PEACE

      • entonces

        What a nonsensical rant. Just because you want to label Nova as #3 or 4 doesn’t change the fact that he was AL Pitcher of the Month in August (just six pitchers in the league win such recognition). You also forget to acknowledge Austin Jackson, leadoff hitter abnd starting CF on a good team. I guess Melancon’s incredible ERA doesn’t impress cause he did it with the Pirates. They never win… Oh, wait.
        As others have pointed out it’s the failure of upper management more than player development. Until last year — and unlike Boston — Yanks rarely got extra picks in draft. That left them with the dregs Selig wants them to get — the penalty for winning, which NYY have dome more than anyone — hence less to work with in draft than anyone.
        And Tight Hal who always seems to learn the wrong lessons from experience applied the Igawa experience by avoiding relatively cheap international talent like Chapman, Puig, Cespedes. Again, an upper management failure.

        • Hal Stein

          I do have a pretty tight body if that’s what you mean.

          • Dick M

            Just sell Hal, I’m beggin you.

        • Mike

          Oh please. Melancon SUCKED when pitched for the Yanks . .and he SUCKED when he pitched for the Sox !.. GEE I bet having a good year has nothing to do with him playing in the SHITTY , Non Pressure , National League Central divison does it ???? … Did we not give him enough time ??

          Nova did in fact have a very good August . .But he is what he is .. a 3 or 4 .. PERIOD. Don’t make Nova out to be something he’s not. We went through the same BS with Hughes.

          The draft is a huge problem.. Even through all the winning , the Yankees have had a FIRST round picks. Ok maybe picking down in the first round. BUT its still a first round pick. they have failed to make that pick count ( Culver, Bichette Jr. Brackman and list goes on and on.) . .Don’t blame the rules or Selig! Blame our scouts and player development

          I do agree with you on the international talent. The Yankees should take more risks.

          • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

            …non pressure? Playoffs are non-pressure? Oh. Someone should really tell Nick Swisher.

      • Troy

        Sheesh must be that time of month huh? My wife actually told me there having a buy one get one free of tampax at the local cvs. Maybe you should check it out

    • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

      The guys that you listed just aren’t enough. D-Rob came up 5 years ago anyway. Clippard was even before him. Also, enough with Nunez. He’s not some major league success. Dude wOBA’d under .300 and had a negative WAR. He’s a below average ballplayer.

      Yeah, they don’t have time to let kids develop sometimes. That comes with always being a contender though and I wouldn’t complain about that.

    • Caballo Sin Nombre

      And Austin Jackson.

  • Mouse

    They can blame drafting and player development all they want but the fact is that if Hal & Cashman had enough smarts to sign Darvish, Cespedes and/or Puig, the lack of talent from the minors wouldn’t be such a problem right now.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      The smarts to bid higher than other teams, you mean?

      Down and down the drain we go.

      • Mouse

        You saying those guys aren’t worth it? Add in Chapman as well. All of their prices are pretty bargain considering how good they are. Probably no coincidence that all those four teams are in the playoffs.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I’m saying you can’t make someone be the highest bidder in this system and, no, I’m not convinced those players were worth it at the time they signed.

  • The Big City of Dreams

    I understand why people are bringing that up, and it’s something we’re going to be looking at,” said the GM

    ———————–

    Took him this long to realize realize this. Whenever someone would criticize the lack of talent he’d get defensive and say we have done this…we have done that…ppl ignore that we produced blah blah blah

    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

      You really think he just realized it now?

      • The Big City of Dreams

        I don’t think he woke up this morning thinking to himself we need to change things but the shortcomings of the farm have been brought up over the past few seasons. I’ll say this if you told him yrs ago that the farm wouldn’t be the pipeline he envisioned back in 05 I think he would be somewhat surprised. I think he honestly believed they would be further along than they are now. Not star at every position but in better shape roster wise.

        • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

          Then I’m confused at the anger in your original post. They had a plan to improve the minor league system, which they were aware was a weakness. The plan clearly didn’t work, but it didn’t mean they weren’t trying. Now they’ll probably try either a completely different approach or they’ll make some tweaks here and there.

          It’s not a science, you can only do what you think is best. Is it possible Cash is the wrong guy to develop a minor league system? Sure. I just don’t know that there’s a good way to tell who is and who isn’t. Even after seeing results. Luck will always play a part in any plan.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            My original post is just me getting my anger out.

            True luck plays a part in any plan and the Yankees in some aspects have been unlucky. No one outside of the most delusional fan thought they would have stars all over the field but many ppl expected at least a star or two and a solid crop going forward. But every few yrs it’s another step back and then the waiting game starts again with the next group.

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              But your anger wasn’t directed at anything specific. You’re outlook is basically reasonable, but the tone didn’t match. I was confused.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Mostly agree here.

          I also think the pipeline started later with positional prospects. The system had good pitching talent earlier (and, yes, we all know the mixes bag that turned into in the long term), and I think the system is in much better shape position-player-wise than it was several years ago. He would be surprised if he were to know this in ’05, but I also don’t think there are great mysteries he’d have to explore as to how it’s happened.

          I’d love to see how we feel about all this in September of 2014.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            I’d love to see how we feel about all this in September of 2014.

            ——————

            Hopefully we all feel better. They need some of these guys to make it through and become apart of the team going forward.

            • Robinson Tilapia

              I just feel like all it would take is to see Austin and Slade in AAA, adjusting to level, and knocking on the door of the big league team, while Sanchez knocks on the door of a AAA promotion. All these things look like they’re actually on the way to happening. Austin looked much better, albeit in an extreme SSS, after coming back from injury, and Slade seemed to adjust well to AA before the injury. None of this is far-fetched at all.

              • The Big City of Dreams

                It’s not far fetched but I think they were hoping they didn’t have the minor set backs that they did because it would set the stage differently for 2014 and especially for 2015. When Hal read the names of the 3 minor leaguers off a sheet of paper at the beginning of the yr he was hoping they would have big seasons to at least set them up for a transition. Even if they just repeated their 12 campaigns. They felt the same way about Pineda too. Hopefully he can bounce back and be a force going forward. He will definitely change things if he does.

                • Robinson Tilapia

                  Yeah. I also don’t think it’s a huge deal to have these guys suffer some adversity. It’s not damning to the system if they do. We all want them to skyrocket, but neither of these guys were going to do that. Hell, Austin’s gotten through the system rather quickly already.

                  The rocket will surely be on Jagelio. Judge is certainly going to be a mystery.

                  • The Big City of Dreams

                    True Austin is a fast riser. I think he is the safest bet going forward. Not a star but a solid player that you can hang your hat on. You know workmen like in his approach and just solid.

                    I’m excited about the new kids. Not jumpy like I was with Generation Trey but looking forward to their growth.

  • sojuyankee

    “Sometimes things don’t go the way you planned”, what exactly was the plan besides hoping everyone comes back and stays healthy! “Brian Cashman acknowledged the Yankees will look to address their unproductive farm system and player development issues in the coming weeks.” You’re GOING TO look into it! If you haven’t looked into it before this year, how about this spring when you went to the cupboard and found the cupboard bare?! to bad the elephants are making like the owner from the movie Major League.

  • Fernando

    I would like to see someone that works with developing/drafting talent for the Cardinals get an offer to come here. That team is always in playoff contention, draft low and yet every year they feed a steady stream of serviceable major league talent.

    Craig, Matt Carpenter, Freese, John Jay, Adams, Molina, Garcia, Miller, Lynn, Kelley, Manness, Salas and Rosenthal. Plus, now guys like Wacha, Wong, Martinez and Taveras. And that doesn’t include the guys they traded to get Holliday, Wainwright and Mujica….most of which amounted to nothing.

    With caps on the draft and the international market, we need a guy that has consistently been able to provide talent with a limited/capped budget. I think those guys are Matt Slater and John Vuch in the Cards organization.

  • JLC 776

    I think it’s good and all that we’re “looking closer at the farm system”, but I don’t have any idea what that actually means.

    I’m terrified that we might change something for the sake of looking like we’re doing something and just end up breaking things further.

    I know this is kind of a vague worry on my part, but frankly I don’t have any clear idea as to what is actually currently wrong with the farm and I challenge anyone to say differently at this point.

    So I guess I hope that addressing the farm is done in an intelligent and non-reactionary manner as opposed to just firing a bunch of guys and saying we’re all good now.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      I know this is kind of a vague worry on my part, but frankly I don’t have any clear idea as to what is actually currently wrong with the farm

      ————–

      Just an opinion not written in stone but when it comes to farm it’s not where he or the organization expected to be. We all understand things happens and not everyone is going to be a star.

      • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

        So…you don’t have any idea either.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          All I did was give an opinion…I even said it wasn’t set in stone. But if the farm was as fine as Cashman thought it was he wouldn’t have made the statement he recently did. If the results spoke for themselves there would be nothing to defend.

          • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

            That wasn’t even an opinion. You just said we aren’t where Cash wanted us to be, which was in the article. Then you said something meaningless.

            Results always speak for themselves. That phrase doesn’t mean “Things went well”. It means “Look at the results, that’s how things are right now.”

            When did Cashman ever say he thought things were fine? I’m curious, I want to see that quote. Defending process is not the same as saying things are fine.

            • The Big City of Dreams

              Maybe not fine but he does seem to get defensive when the media challenges him on the lack of talent from the farm and either uses players that had success somewhere else or Phil Hughes to show how much progress the system has made.

              • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                Where? Where, this year, did he use Phil Hughes a sign of progress?

                Is being defensive bad now? Do you want him to just, accept every suggestion he gets from any random news reporter who knows 1/100th about the farm system as he does?

                • The Big City of Dreams

                  I think it was with Mad Dog either at the end of last season or at the beginning of this one. It started when Russo said Yankees haven’t developed good starting pitchers and where is the Yankees Matt Cain. Cashman brought up Hughes and stated how Hughes is overlooked and ppl ignore his seasons.

                  It’s not bad but as I said if the farm was as good as he thought it was the results would speak for themselves. There would be nothing defend all he would have to say is look at my track record not well if you count this guy and that guy and this player we traded and this guy with a good half yr.

                  • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                    Before this year it wasn’t totally unreasonable to make that claim.

                    So results are all that matter? Not process?

                    • The Big City of Dreams

                      The problem with the Yankees is they are all process with the results being mixed and that’s being reasonable about it. Every few yrs it’s Yankees have some kids down there they are high on and then for various reasons they either don’t live up to the hype, get injured, or regress. I’ll be fair if Joba and Hughes reached their ceiling or one was an ace and the other was a number 3 I doubt there would be this constant talk about the farm. Ppl want to see results and when the results are mixed the backlash is going to be heard.

                      Yes we should care what some radio hosts has to say about our team but when they ask where are the players and the response is a bunch of relievers and Brett Gardner it’s hard to say they have done well developing.

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      There’s a difference between

                      “We’ve done well developing and have a great farm system”

                      and

                      “The process is there, we’ve had some bad luck, some injuries, but still, look at Cano, Gardner, Robertson, some relievers, etc. It’s not quite the disaster it’s been made out to be.”

                      The problem is we just don’t know the process. We don’t. So we’re trying to judge purely based on results, and what I’m saying, is that’s patently unfair.

                      If I hit on 20, and get 21, the process was miserable. If I double on 11 against a 6 in 3 straight hands and lose every one, that doesn’t mean I played the hands wrong.

                    • The Big City of Dreams

                      How is it patently unfair? How else are we going to judge if not based on results? Yes injuries happen and I stated that in this post but at some point they have to question what is going on

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      Did you just ignore my analogy?

                      We just established that process is important. That’s literally the only reason you need to know that judging purely based on results is awful.

                      Yes, it’s all WE have to judge them on. So instead of saying “I know that the system needs new direction”, it’s fair to say, “Well, the results haven’t been there, so it’s likely that the system could use a new direction. However, it’s also possible that we’ve had some bad luck with injuries, and things could have gone differently with some good luck.”

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      Or you know, you don’t HAVE to judge. Reserving your opinion is a thing.

                    • The Big City of Dreams

                      Luck plays a role but it all can’t be just bad luck or injuries. This isn’t the worst system ever or anything like that but based on where they want to be and where they are it has been a disappointment.

  • Chris

    I agree with you entonces, but could the problem not be further up the chain with Hal himself? This is the guy who most likely is going to resign Cano to a ridiculous contract, all in an effort to placate the shareholders and casual fans with their “win now” mentality. Maybe he should talk to his brother Hank and see how well signing 30 year old players to 8+ years works. How’s Pujols doing btw?

    This is just my personal opinion and I know it is unpopular, but the biggest issue with this whole thing is that in order to rebuild the farm system, the Yankees front office needs to be PATIENT. That means completely changing their strategy and mindset for the first time… well, ever. This will take years and most current fans and the entire organization has never experienced it before. I don’t want to hear about “well what about the 90’s? They rebuilt then!” Everyone knows that was all Stick Michael when Papa Steinbrenner was banned from the game. The Steinbrenners have never had the patience to rebuild a team, they just threw money around when they could- 2009 anyone? The problem is that we are not 1-2 power-hitting outfielders or number 3 starters away from being a top tier team. We need to replace half the infield, 2 starters, half the bullpen and the bench. Our outfield is alright excluding Ichiro, but Granderson is a free agent and even though Soriano was good this year, the guy is going to be 38 next year. Not to mention that we have no idea how good CC is going to be. The free agent market no longer has that much talent for us to buy and other teams can outbid us now anyway. Fixing the Yankees is not waiting for your 40 year old SS to be healthy next year and pick up another Ibanez or Colon, it’s going to take years and I don’t think the Steinbrenners have the patience for it or are prepared to do what is necessary.

    • entonces

      Chris– I do believe Hal is really the problem.
      And I think there are several issues. The lack of patience is at or near the top of the list. But I also think Hal doesn’t have either the love of the game or the big-balls risk-taking temperament to run an operation the like the Yankees. This is big business — where people take big risks and Hal seems to have the cautious bean-counter mentality.
      I don’t fault him for staying out of the blind bidding for Darvish. But I do for avoiding the other IGS’s at a time that Selig was ensuring the Yankees would have ever-narrowing access to young talent. And I also fault him for not taking charge this year to take rebuilding by the horns — selling off assets that would likely not be re-signed, maybe including Cano. Just a total lack of credible planning, nerve and consistent focus.

      • Chris

        +1

      • TomH

        I’ve just finished a tasty lunch of crow au creme (de la creme) and report this to keep my promise to a poster to whom I responded “Get back to me in October.” Unfortunately, I forget who this poster was. Sorry.

        However I do agree entirely with your post re Hal. I mean no disrespect to him as a person. Hell, I only know him from his remarks and the occasional tv sighting. Nevertheless, he does not seem to be the kind of Head Man that the Yankees need right now. The Boss’s buccanner traits (sometimes useful, sometimes not) seem to have gone to Hank, where, untempered by any sign of prudence, they can run amok.

        But in his remarks and in his manner, brother Hal seems kind of timid. The “finance guy” self-description made me anxious. It had a Mr. Milquetoast quality about it, when the team needs much more willingness to take risks than merely to make books add up. He should be telling Cash to assume the team’s 40 man roster has a shadow 41st player, a guy named L. Tax.

        Look, some of these problems were pointed out on this board by many of us 2-3 years ago: e.g., the impending crisis of advancing age. I got into trouble myself for broaching a coming “1965 Crisis,” and for posting once (on a Monday) my chronic #4 confidence vote (based as much on organization as any other factor). A repeat this off-season of last year’s sit-on-hands routine will only increase the likelihood that 2014 will be our 1965.

        The real sign of Hal’s limitation was his insistence–remember?–that the team had done pretty well to improve itself during the off-season. This was other the sign of delusion, or disingenuousness, or contempt for the fans (taken for being dolts). Organizations can sometimes take on the characteristic of their leaders. An org. like the Yankees, which has a legacy with roots far back beyond the Steinbrenners, should not be treated to remarks like that.

        • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

          Wrong site, I’ll redirect you.

          http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/

          • Robinson Tilapia

            Cha-ching!

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              For real, let’s talk about:

              http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/.....ppointment

              I vote…all of the above.

              #Anthopolousfailed

              • Robinson Tilapia

                I can’t say I even remember Tom openly rooting for the Jays, but “TomH is a Blue Jays fan” is in the running for best meme of 2013.

                This likely means Steve will show up and whine like a three year-old because he didn’t come up with it.

                • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                  I have no idea whether he “roots” for them or not, but he was VERY high on them pre-season. I’d go back and find it but I honestly don’t care enough.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          So what do you think this team would have looked like with a healthy Mark Teixeira and a fully healthy Curtis Granderson, two things that we expected to have in the off-season? I’ll even leave Jeter out of this for now.

          Also, what would the Jays…..ah, never mind….

        • The Big City of Dreams

          The real sign of Hal’s limitation was his insistence–remember?–that the team had done pretty well to improve itself during the off-season. This was other the sign of delusion, or disingenuousness, or contempt for the fans (taken for being dolts).

          —————

          Didn’t he say he was surprised to hear anger from the fans since they signed 3 or 4 of the top free agents. Not the exact quote but along the lines.

          lol Hal was on that stuff

          • Robinson Tilapia

            That was tecnically true, though. Three of the best four free agents were out were signed by the Yankees. I can’t believe I’m saying that about Kevin Youkilis now, but it was what it was.

            Yes, two of those meant re-signing our own players, but that’s not nothing.

            Please don’t make me defend last off-season more than I have to. :)

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              Remembering only what fits our arguments is what TomH does, though. We need people like you to remind us of what actually happened, rather than his skewed Blue Jays version of reality.

              • Robinson Tilapia

                There’s also his irrational fear of Shawn Kelley.

            • The Big City of Dreams

              I can’t give you Youk I’m sorry lol.

              • Robinson Tilapia

                We’ll just leave it there. I’m only going so far to defend him. I hope he spent the $15 million well.

                • The Big City of Dreams

                  He probably did spend it well. It would have been nice to see him for the entire yr because he plays with passion but the back has been an issue for a while.

                  • Robinson Tilapia

                    It wuold have been nice to see a healthy Youkilis play for this team. Completely agree. I never disliked him.

                    • The Big City of Dreams

                      Yea a lot fans were bent out of shape when he came here but I didn’t get it. I didn’t like the price tag or the back issues but we all know he was going to try his hardest to help the team win.

    • Dick M

      Chris, you nailed it.

      The days of throwin money around to cover our mistakes are over.

      I would add that the solution involves bringing in real baseball development folks, which would be a total front office house-clean. But Hal ain’t up for that either.

      What I want is a sale of the Yankees to some hungry, intelligent, new-age baseball guys who understand how to put the Yankee brand and resources to work utilizing a development paradigm.

  • WhatToDo

    It would be nice to see a breakdown of Yankees’ first and second round picks over the past ten years, with a list of the functioning major league players who were picked after the Yankees’ first pick. Of course, the Yankees have had low picks because of their success. And so any evaluation of the Yankees’ front office’s performance in developing talent must take this into account. But, for instance, in 2005 Yankees had the 17th pick and chose shortstop CJ Henry. Picked ahead of Henry were Justin Upton, Ryan Braun, Troy Tulowitzki, Andrew McCutchen, Ryan Zimmerman, and Alex Gordon. But here are a some of the players picked after Henry: Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Buchholz, Jed Lowrie (all by the Red Sox), and Matt Garza. Sox had 5 picks of the first 48. Yanks had one. Think about what might have happened this year if Yanks had chosen Ellsbury instead of Henry.

    • RealityCheck

      Well, according to everyone here, had the Yankees chosen Ellsbury instead of Henry he would have flamed out in the minors and amounted to nothing short of Andy Stankewicz

  • RossMoss146

    What a first class d1ck. “We’ll look into it…”

    Ya think??!?!?!?!???

    If he was on the Titanic, after the impact, he’d be issuing memos, “We’re looking into icebergs.”

    While he’s at it, how about looking into giving out long term contracts to star players BEFORE they become free agents. Why in the world wait until they expire and compete with the rest of the world, when you can get it done without competition?!?!?!?!?

    The lunacy, incompetence and sheer arrogance of this man knows no bounds!!

  • jobasphatstache

    Please, let this be the part of the script where Hal DeNiro produces a baseball bat, and proceeds to unleash his owner fury on Oppenwhiner.

  • CS Yankee

    The first thing I thought when I read the article title was “why, they already have one”

    They need to sign IFA in a bad way, they totally missed the wave of Cuban players over the last 2-3 years and that is an area that they can gamble on without feeling the full cost (luxary tax, draft choices, etc)

    • Nathan

      I don’t think they’ve signed anyone since bombing on Igawa.

      Gunshy, I think.

  • pc

    the farm system and drafting should have been looked at a long time ago.

  • Nord

    The Yankee pitchers are without exception snakebit by that too short right field porch, er wall. Move it back a few rows and watch the difference. Same with the lefthand hitters who just love to pull the ball to get a cheapie homerun.

    That aside, fix the minor leagues and bring them up to the show internally in the future.

  • Farewell Mo

    If someone commented that the Yankees need to seriously look at revamping their drafting and player development, a half dozen commenters would have attacked that person for being a troll.

    It’s pretty hard to see clearly through rose colored glasses