Friday Night Open Thread


Happy Friday everyone. Here is your open thread for the night. The NLCS between the Dodgers and Cardinals kicks off at 8:30pm ET and can be seen on TBS (Zack Greinke vs. Joe Kelly). The Islanders and Devils are both playing regular season games while the Knicks are playing a preseason game. Talk about those games or anything else right here.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Can two players on the same team face off against each other in the playoffs? New rule change?

  2. Pat D says:

    An interesting article written by someone outside of Yankee-land.

    While it’s somewhat plausible, the rotation and bullpen are still pretty weak, he assumes Jeter can be an everyday SS and he seems to assume ARod will play most, if not the entire, year.


    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      Looks like a team that will hover around .500, and worse, if his contract assumptions are correct, will likely exceed the $189M threshold by a pretty decent margin (if you include ARod).

    • mustang says:

      Like the article, but I would like to see a few different things first no Brian McCann. Yes, I would like to have him, but I think they are deep with young catchers and I rather not lose the pick. In few years McCann will probably be another DH type they have enough of those.
      The 3 big deals I would like to see are Cano, Tanaka and Alexander Guerrero. I know they haven’t been talked about as one of the teams in on Guerrero, he is predicted more for second then SS and the Boras factor. Still Jeter is at the end and they have nothing in the farm even near close. That’s a big need that can be filled by Guerrero and for the most part Cuban players come as advertise.

    • RetroRob says:

      If A-Rod plays most of the year then they will get more production out of 3B than they did this year by a wide margin. That’s a positive. If A-Rod misses a large portion to all of the year, then they will have a significant amount of money to bring in additional players. That’s a positive. The potential downside is if they don’t know well into the offseason what A-Rod’s status is preventing them from addressing their needs appropriately.

      I have good faith in the Cashman/Girardi duo that they will construct yet another quality bullpen. Why not. They’ve been doing every year since Torre left. Yes, Mo is gone, but Robertson will be fine as his replacement. He will give us more heartburn than Mo, but he will get the job done and, in fact, there’s a very good chance that he will have less blown saves than Mo did this year. The issue is not replacing Rivera in the 9th. The issue is replacing Robertson in the 8th. They will need another quality reliever to mix in with their usual collection of fringe pitchers who end up doing a quality job.

      I do think the Yankees can build a quality team in 2014 that could win the division, but they will have to avoid making decisions like they did last year, such as signing Ichiro for two years when there were better and cheaper options.

  3. JGYank says:

    I think we finally have a postseason where the 4 best teams in baseball are the last 4 standing. Both LCS will be great matchups and will be fun to watch. Good chance both series go to game 7. Cards and Dodgers are about even and the RS are a little better than Detroit at this point but the Tigers were built well for the postseason with their rotation.

    • MC says:

      Nope. I was rooting for the Pirates big time. I’m not at all a fan of the Dodgers. No chance I would root for the Red Sox. The Cardinals are what they are. A very good team, but no real story line. I’m basically rooting Tigers at this point, because the owners greatest wish has been to bring a WS back to that tone and he has certainly paid for it. Plus the town could use something uplifting. Still I thought the Pirates were going for it.

      • WhittakerWalt says:

        Ordinarily I wouldn’t care about the Tigers one way or the other, but they’ve manhandled the Yanks in the playoffs three times in a row now. I cannot abide that.

        • Lukaszek says:

          The Tigers are 10-3 against the Yankees in the playoffs since 2006. No fucking way Im rooting for them. It’d be like rooting for a guy who makes love to your woman while you’re forced to watch it happen Clockwork Orange-style

        • SDB says:

          I’ll forgive it if they do the same or worse to the Red Sox. I can’t loathe any team as much as I do the Sox.

  4. MC says:


    Pretty soon all of us fans will start filling out our rosters (arm chair GM’s). I do believe that Rodriguez will be suspended for the season. Based on this weeks antics, I just think he is making his own situation worse. We’ll see. I also have a very interesting theory on Jeter. He has openly stated he would not play under any circumstance if he was unable to. This is a guy who will not embarrass himself. He will be healthier, but it remains to be seen how durable he will be at this point. I think he actually turns down his option and signs some type of 2 year deal or even a new 1 year deal with a bunch of incentives or something that allows him to call retirement mid season and be paid and so on. I don’t know, but my gut is telling me he will turn down the option and there is currently some inside discussion going on about him. The Yankees and Jeter are at an interesting crossroad.

    Some of the article I’ll agree with, but my feeling is our roster will look much different.
    1st – Teixeria
    2nd – Cano
    SS – Ryan/Nunez (well see how Jeter thing plays out)
    3rd – trade for a young guy like Anthony Rendon or of comparable talent.
    DH – Soriano

    Catcher – I do NOT think they will be in on McCann. Yeah, it makes sense, but I don’t see them putting out that kind of change along with Cano money and which I’ll get to in a moment Tanaka. It’s going to be Cervelli 4.0. I could also see them trying to acquire a catcher via trade. Would it be possible they go with Cervelli and J.R. Murphy? Insane, but possible.

    RF – Ichiro
    CF – Gardner
    LF – Mason Williams (I’m betting he will break camp – or at a minimum, join the team end of April, regardless of Spring production).

    Bench: Wells, Soriano, Ryan/Nunez


    (Phelps, Nuno, Warren, Huff). Maybe a Manny Banuelos after all-star break.


    David Robertson (closer)
    Shawn Kelley
    Preston Claiborne
    Adam Warren
    Cesar Cabral
    Vidal Nuno
    David Phelps
    Delin Betances

    The Yankees can easily stay within a $189mm budget and filed an incredible team. Give Kuroda $12mm, Tanaka $12mm (AAV 5 years) and Cano $24mm. Still leaves $30mm +

    I’m reading all kinds of doomsday stories for the Yanks, but I don’t see it. I don’t think it will be that rough of an offseason. I think Cashman’s greatest challenge will be acquiring a young 3rd baseman or younger catcher. I think that Cervelli might get yet another shot, which might not sit well with a lot of people. I would look at that kid on the Astros as it’s been discussed on here. They will have a few people to trade to the Astros. They could do a package of Gary Sanchez and Tyler Austin or something like that. Might be a bit much, I don’t know. Maybe not and maybe they value Sanchez as much as they do and will wait another 2 years hence not signing McCann and going with Cervelli/J.R. Murphy. Catcher in my opinion, is the position I’m most curious to see what’s done this offseason.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      Mason Williams??
      I guessing he’ll be no higher than about 8th on the OF depth chart to start the season, if that high.
      He has a long way to go before he’d get MLB consideration.
      Zoilo, Austin, and Heathcott and probably Musty and Garcia would likely get a shot before Mason in 2014.

      • RetroRob says:

        Agreed. There is no chance Mason Williams will break camp with the Yankees. His chances are slightly (and only slightly) better than my chances of breaking camp with the Yankees.

      • MC says:

        Perhaps, we’ll see, but one of the young outfielders are with the team opening day in my opinion. The point was more to illustrate there is an unnecessary cost associated with the outfield at the moment. I think the Yanks really need to focus on acquiring a young already playing catcher or 3rd baseman. Someone who is in his arb years and 2-3 years away from free agency. The yanks should have their own options in a couple years. As for Arod, depending on how this goes, one of two things happens in 2015: he shuts up and he plays as a permanent DH or the Yanks just cut ties with him. He will have about $80mm remaining. In my eyes, Arod lost his position and it’s not going to be there for him to take back. Maybe the Yanks trade him offseason 2014 and $50mm-$60mm to a number of teams. I’m pretty sure that there will be several teams who would take Arod and $60mm paying him only $5mm of their own money per year. I could see the White Sox, Indians, Astos (yes Astros as DH and to sell tickets with a limited investment) Marlins, or Padres.

      • I'm One says:

        And Tanaka will not get $12MM AAV. Darvish is getting less than $10MM. His contract can reach $60MM, but that’s if he makes all of his incentives (not sure what they are.

        I do like the idea of going after Tanaka. Not sure on Kuroda returning, but that would be great.

        • MC says:

          Market has improved since Darvish. Less inventory. He’ll cost $60mm at $12mm per year. The posting fee is a mystery, but $55mm-$65mm seems to be the range. This isn’t shooting into the wind. Darvish is a very representative comparison and like I said, the market and liquid of teams (more teams) has improved quite a bit in the last 24 months alone. Agreed with Kuroda. I wonder if there is any value in being a mentor to a young Japanese pitcher. I wonder if that is something which interests him. Would he go one more round if they sign Tanaka? Odds favor the Yanks if he decided to pitch another season.

    • I don’t mean to crash your party but in my opinion I don’t think that is an incredible team in the slightest. Maybe if EVERYTHING breaks right, but as everyone has seen this season and past seasons that is never the case.

      1) There are way too many ?’s in the starting rotation. Will CC Sabathia pitch like a front end of the rotation guy or pitch like Phil Hughes next year? Can Nova prove that he can pitch consistently well for a full season? Can Kuroda pitch a full good season and not fall off in August at age 39? Is Tanaka a capable MLB starter or the next Kei Igawa? Will Michael Pineda ever take the mound as a Yankee or will his should inhibit him from pitching in 2014?

      2) The bullpen has zero depth. You are 1 injury away from having Shawn Kelly as your closer and Preston Clayborn as your setup man? Is anyone comfortable with that? I know I am definitely not. I like Kelly and Clayborn but I don’t think they are 8th-9th inning guys. more like really good 6th/7th inning guys.

      3) Mason Williams? Ichiro? Just get Anthony Rendon? Let Mason Williams concur AA before we are penciling him in RF. Idk what you’re smoking but I would really like some.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

        That’s definitely not an incredible roster.
        That’s barely a credible contender (and a lot would have to go right for them to even seriously contend)

  5. MannyGeee says:

    Thoughts and prayers to Adrian Peterson and his family. An absolute tragedy.

  6. WhittakerWalt says:

    Carlos Beltran now hitting below .250 in this postseason. Which should be impossible because he’s TEH BEST POSTSEASON CLUTCH HITTER OF ALL TIME.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      952 OPS and 8 RBI in 6 games is pretty damn good.

    • forensic says:

      And still a .950+ OPS, which I’m sure you would normally mention about any player other than him…

    • Tom says:

      Wow what a weakass attempt at reverse trolling.

      • WhittakerWalt says:

        Oh, settle down. I’m just messing around.

        • Tom says:

          It’s just dumb. If it actually made sense, it might be funny.

          • WhittakerWalt says:

            Boo hoo hoo.

            • Tom says:

              Wow, you keep stepping up the game. I defer to your greatness.


              AMIDOINNITRITE ?!11!one!!1uno!!!

              • WhittakerWalt says:

                Well, Tom. As I’ve said before on several occasions, I do think we should have gotten Beltran. We had more than one chance and whiffed both times. I’ve never said otherwise. I don’t know where you get your information from.

                I just think it’s kind of weird how some people on this site act like Beltran would be a magic postseason bullet. There are no guarantees of anything, even when the guy is as proven as Beltran is. I could just imagine we had signed him and then he went out and had a lousy postseason (he has had a couple, you know). And then everyone would be complaining that we “bought into the myth of Carlos Beltran the invincible postseason hero” and wonder how we could have ever signed him to such a ridiculous contract.

                Beltran has had an amazing, almost otherworldly run in the postseason, but we’re still talking about less than 150 at-bats. Such an amazing run of success could continue forever, or he could go 0 for his next 20 in the playoffs. Unless you think he just magically “gets it done” in the playoffs and that’s just how it is? Certainly his existing record would suggest that he does. I just think the capriciousness of the playoffs can be pretty cruel.

                Yes, I’d rather have Beltran up in a big spot instead of Nick Swisher. 100 times out of 100 I’d want that. It’s still no guarantee of anything.

                • Tom says:

                  Well Walt…

                  You keep saying “small sample size” and spinning it as variation and luck but a couple of things:

                  1) 170PA’s is actually starting to become a not insignificant sample

                  2) Beltran’s career #’s are significantly better against power pitchers than finesse pitchers. You tend to see a far greater % of power guys in the playoffs (both starters and relievers).

                  3) pitching is better in the postseason (no 5th starters, fewer starts by #4′s, shorter bullpen), so even just maintaining your reg season #’s is impressive and in a sense upping your game (as you are facing 5th starters and backend bullpen guys and crappy teams during the season)

                  You really think it is luck at this point?

                  • WhittakerWalt says:

                    I don’t know what it is. Maybe Beltran just has an amazing zen-like ability to briefly become the best player in baseball during the playoffs… when at all other times he’s just a pretty good player. It’s not like he’s a future Hall of Famer.

                    All I’m saying is that, logically and statistically it could just as easily dry up at any moment, even for a guy who’s done so much. Postseason performance is not something you can rely on. Raul Ibañez looked unstoppable last postseason, and he’s only Raul Ibañez.

                    Knowing the way things have gone for us lately, we’d sign Beltran and he’d just go out and stink up the joint in the playoffs. Remember, when we made the ARod trade in 2004 Alex was a pretty terrific postseason performer. And then he wasn’t.

                    • Tom says:

                      AGAIN, look at his career splits vs pitcher type (power vs finesse). These are career level splits not 170 PA sample size – he hits power pitching better. You face far more power pitching in the postseason.

                      You keep saying logically and statistically but all you are doing is throwing out platitudes which are some derivation of “you never know” you can say that about a guy with 3000 AB’s too… But there is some data and more than simply postseason data to suggest it’s not merely a fluke; you just choose to ignore it.

                      Or maybe you think a career’s worth of split data of power vs finesse pitching is not meaningful?

                      And he is potentially a future HOF; he’s at 64 WAR (while WAR is not the end all be all 65-70 is usually right about the cutoff) – with another 2-3 decent years, I think he has a decent shot (especially when you look at the postseason #’s too)

                    • WhittakerWalt says:

                      I’m not choosing to ignore anything. I’m only saying NO ONE is as good as Beltran in the postseason, which means it’s probably not something you can count on lasting forever.

    • Michael Allen says:

      He’s officially hitting .250…

      • 461deep says:

        Yankees made blunder and went CHEAPO on
        Beltran who wanted badly to play for them. He’d
        nice numbers in YS. Carlos is in my view the
        second best

        5 tool switch hitter in MLB history next to Mantle.
        He is much stronger than many imagined. Other than Mickey, only Non 5 tool switcher Eddie Murray has more homers
        Tex in the running as well.

  7. OldYanksFan says:

    h/t Lohud:
    BEING: MARIANO RIVERA, the definitive 90-minute television documentary from FOX Sports Originals, Relativity Television and Major League Baseball Productions on the reticent superstar’s final season in pinstripes, premieres Sunday, Oct. 20 on FOX (2:30 or 4:30 PM ET; check local listings), with an encore presentation on Tuesday, Oct. 22 on FOX Sports 1 (9:30 PM ET).

  8. Darren says:

    These TBS announcers. Oy. Who’s the play by play guy, Kenny Albert? Ugh, he sounds like he’s got a throat full of gyro sauce. And Darling isn’t exactly Mr. Mellifluous. Smoltz and his “umms” are annoying too.
    BLAH! Can’t wait for Buck and McCarver.

  9. Darren says:

    Awww yeah! Play at the plate in the LCS is the bomb.

    Still want Donnie Baseball to win, but nice play.

  10. Tom says:

    Man that Beltran is unclucth… never does anything good.

  11. Tom Q says:

    Third time in the game the Dodgers have failed to deliver a guy from third with one out — a strikeout, a ground ball back to the pitcher (resulting in a force at the plate), now this.

  12. lee says:

    WOW, he never tagged him!!!!! terrible call.

  13. Wheels says:

    Insanely bad call. Insanely bad decision to tag though too. What a clusterfuck.

  14. Darren says:

    What are you guys talking about, Ellis crashed right into his glove. ELbow or something clearly knocked the glove back.

    • lee says:

      not on the replay i saw. molina never got the glove close to the runner. wasn’t even close.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      Crashed into Molina’s elbow/shoulder…which is connected to the arm, which is connected to the hand, which was in the glove.
      The glove never actually touched the runner.

      • Darren says:

        I thought his elbow or wrist hit the glove directly, but I gotta watch it again.

        • Darren says:

          yeah go look at espn.com home page for pix of forearm on glove

          • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

            That’s a misleading angle.
            From other angles, you can see the runner’s elbow is actually in contact with Molina’s elbow, not his glove. The glove is about a foot away from the contact.

          • lee says:

            they just replayed it on TBS. again, not even close. all the announcers agreed that it was a bad call.

            • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

              There was definitely no tag, but I’m not sure there is any umpire that would have called the runner safe on that play.

              • Reuben Sierra's Chains says:


                I love how everyone with a beer in their hand and on their couch is all like “WOW TERRIBLE CALL, JUST BRUTAL”

                Ooookay, after 10 slow-motion replays and about 7 different angles, you loons come up with it being the worst call ever. Riiiiight, gotcha. I’m sure when it happened live you all saw he didn’t tag him too. Hilarious…

                • WhittakerWalt says:

                  No, when it happened live I thought he was out. Don’t you think maybe something like that should get reviewed, though? These are the playoffs.

                  • Reuben Sierra's Chains says:

                    Yeah I do. I am not 100% sure they would’ve changed it. Meaning I don’t know how obvious something like that has to be on replay to be changed. It looks like the glove never touched him, but I wouldn’t put my life on it. It was really close, and impossible call for an ump to make in live action.

                    That is why I think all the over exaggeration is a bit unnecessary, but whatever. I’ve never missed a call from my couch either.

                    • lee says:

                      the tag was missed by at least 6″. and the replay makes it very obvious. this has nothing to do with us on the couch — everyone in the booth was in unanimous agreement that the call was missed. if they aren’t going to overturn a mistake like that, there’s no reason to even have replay.

                • lee says:

                  actually when i saw it live i immediately thought he missed the tag. when they cut to commercial, i replayed it several times on my DVR and it was clearly a missed call. when they got back from commercial, the TBS guys noted it as well.

                  and no, it wasn’t the “worst call ever”. but it was quite clearly a bad call, one that may end up costing the Dodgers a game in a best-of-seven series, which is a very big deal.

                • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

                  No, I thought he missed it live, too.
                  But I think every umpire would probably give the benefit of the doubt because the ball so clearly beat the runner.

            • Darren says:

              Maybe I just have Sterling-itis, but I don’t trust announcers to tell me the truth anymore. I’ll wait for the replays again.

    • Wheels says:

      The glove never touched him from all the angles I saw.

      • Darren says:

        I think one of the strings on the glove touched his arm. Seriously. Which means he was out.
        Good call.

        • Wheels says:

          I still think he was safe, but hey, he shouldn’t have tried to tag there. It was too shallow of a fly ball to Beltran. I don’t know if that’s on Tim Wallach or Ellis, but it was boneheaded.

  15. forensic says:

    Heh, without saying the exact words, Hershiser basically just said that Axford isn’t a True Cardinal yet to their fans.

    And yet people will continue to say it’s only Yankee fans who do that dumb stuff.

  16. WhittakerWalt says:

    LOL at Cardinals fans groaning that the pitch a foot outside wasn’t called strike 3.

  17. WhittakerWalt says:

    This is like watching the 2013 Yankees trying to score.

  18. WhittakerWalt says:

    This is probably the part where Carlos Beltran makes me eat my words. Oh, well. I’m man enough to take it.

  19. Need Pitching & Hitting says:

    2014 RF/DH????

  20. Reuben Sierra's Chains says:


    Tag? Tough call people. No way in Hell they would’ve called him safe if they would have went to replay. Way to close.

    Side note Beltran is a Postseason Beast.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      There was one angle that I thought showed he was clearly safe, clear enough to overrule the call on replay.

  21. Tom says:

    Random variation strikes again. ;-)

    • WhittakerWalt says:

      I deserved that.

      • WhittakerWalt says:

        Guh, and now he has to talk about God. Just to rub salt in the wound.

      • Tom says:

        Sorry – I’ll try to be nicer tomorrow

        On a serious note I looked up Swisher’s splits against power and finesse pitchers:

        Finesse – sOPS 108
        Average – sOPS 93
        Power – sOPS 95
        (suggesting Swisher feasts a bit on finesse pitching).

        It doesn’t explain how truly awful he’s been in the postseason, but against less finesse pitching inthe playoffs, I think it’s fair to expect him to do worse (then the normal falloff of simply facing better pitching).

        • WhittakerWalt says:

          Nick Swisher is a freak of nature. He’s a really good player who somehow becomes the worst player EVER when the playoffs hit. I think most of it is mental, but it’s become so bad that it almost defies physics and statistics. Even lousy hitters can have good playoff series once in a while. Mark Lemke was a terrible hitter who managed to hit great in the playoffs.

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