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Happy Friday everyone. Today’s a travel day for the World Series, so there’s no baseball tonight. The Islanders, Knicks, and Nets are playing, however. Other than that, you’re on your own for entertainment. Have at it.
Hmmm…this thread doesn’t appear on the homepage yet does in the top right corner of the Cano GG thread. I’m gonna repost what I said about Joba because…well…I’m quite bored atm.
I started visiting the site during the ‘Save the Big 3? days, and it’s become one of my most visited websites throughout the years.
Joba’s is the only jersey I own, & I was a huge fan from the beginning, like most. When the controversy started, I developed into something of a Joba apologist throughout the years.
I’ve always thought the primary problem with this whole situation was not Joba’s makeup, nor was it the club’s juggling him from rotation to BP per se. I think the most important piece of this particular pitcher development failure was the initial rush up to the bigs.
This is indeed conjecture but it seems to me that one of the most important skills learned during a pitchers grooming in the minors is mental toughness, the ability to go out there with less than your best stuff & learn how to pitch. To rebound from a bad start, or a bad inning, or a bad pitch & continue to execute. Joba’s stuff was so great during his 88.1 MiLB innings that he arguably never had to encounter a situation like this before he got to the bigs. BBref’s MiL gamelogs only go back as far as 2008, & I don’t feel like going elsewhere to try & back that last statement up, but a 13.8:2.8 K/9:BB/9 in 88.1 IP is pretty dominant.
For comparison, here are some other MiLB total IP, before the given player really stuck in MLB. These are just some names that popped into my head, ML SPs with different kinds of stuff.
Randy Johnson 400.1
D Price 144
So, to dust off an old meme from those ‘StB3? days:
LEAVE THE GODDAMN BURRITO IN THE MICROWAVE TILL IT’S DONE!!!!!!
(hope life’s going swimmingly for ol’ TSJC)
People underestimate the mental aspect of the game. See Bard, Daniel.
It’s just I don’t think they were ever too high on Joba and the first excuse/sign they had they put him away.
Nah, I caught it and replied on the Joba thread.
Bring back the old-timers.
Just an interesting thlught/question:
If Mike Trout was going to be a free agent this off-season what kind of salary do you think he would get? Would it be record breaking? 10 years/300 million+? Even more?
At his age? 12-14 years at 25-30 per might be feasible.
I don’t think any team would be crazy enough to sign a player for 12-14 years, even Trout.
He would get at least 10 though
Well, Bill Bavasi and Tony Reagins don’t have jobs right now so…
You don’t think the Yankees or Dodgers would go 12 years for Trout’s age 22 through 33 seasons? Someone gave, an already in decline, Albert Pujols a 10 year deal for his age 32 through 41 seasons.
Look at some of the contracts GMs give to players on the wrong side of 30. Look at some of the contracts for players close to 30. Then realize you’d be signing Trout at age 22.
Waddaya expect from a team that gave their manager a 10 yr deal? Moreno is known for willing to flash his cash.
And no, I don’t think his agent would allow that, even if teams do go for it. Most teams don’t dare committing 25M+ for 12 years. Those who can already have shelled out for it.
Let’s be specific
Can’t= can’t afford or already has an expensive OF. No means they wont go for it and its against their perceived philosophy.
AL E: TB can’t, Bal can’t, NYY can’t (cough cc tex a-rod), Tor no, Bos no.
AL C: Det can’t, Min can’t, CWS can’t, KCR no, Cle can’t
AL W: Tex no, LAA can’t, Sea can’t, Oak can’t, Hou can’t
NL E: NYM can’t, Phi can’t, Was can’t, Atl can’t, Mia can’t
NL C: Mil can’t, Cin can’t, Stl won’t, Pit can’t, Chc can’t
NL W: LAD can’t, Arz can’t, SDP can’t, SFG can’t, Col can’t.
Like me to clarify my thoughts for any of these teams?
Yeah, we are going to disagree on this one big time. You can clarify on a bunch of teams, but we are going to disagree on a fundamental level anyway. More and more teams have money.
I don’t know if you are having issues with the money or the years. Sure some teams won’t have the money. There are plenty of teams that have the money though that you have as a can’t.
If a team is willing to pay 8-10 years of a players decline years, do you really think that an extra 2 years to ensure his prime are too much? it’s simple to me. He gets the 12 years.
P.S. People did this same exercise when deciding that Pujols and Fielder weren’t going to get anything close to what they got not too long ago. Talent gets paid.
No doubt based on his age, ability, and production he would get a ten-year deal. Giving ten-year deals to young, highly productive position players is different than pitchers or position players on the wrong side of 30. A-Rod’s original deal was fine. Jeter’s was fine. We will have to see how Kemp’s turns out, but injuries so far are not a good sign.
So I would not have an issue if Trout was declared a free-agent tomorrow and the Yankees signed him to a 10/$300M deal. There is risk, but that’s a risk I would take.
I doubt Trout himself would have an interest in going past ten years himself. He’ll have locked in his riches on the ten-year deal, plus he’ll still “only” be 31 when it’s done, so if he is still playing at a high level, he can lock in another long-term contract at the going rate tens years hence. If he took a 14-year deal (ignoring that I don’t think many teams, if any, would go past the 10- of 11-year range), he’d be in his mid-30s. Less likely to score another big deal based on age and certainly the evidence of declining production. It’s why Boras structured A-Rod’s original multi-year contract the way he did so there was an out after seven years. He knew A-Rod could get more money going back out as a free agent at 31 then he would three years later at 34, and seeing what happened to A-Rod health wise, Boras was right. He protected A-Rod in case he was injured or declined dramatically before age-31, but built in an out at seven years so he could then negotiate another long-term deal if he was healthy. It was actually quite brilliant.
That’s why I also believe Trout and his agent wouldn’t take more than a ten-year deal.
Why not a contract for max # of years like 12 and an opt-out. That makes the most sense from his agent’s POV, no?
I gotta be honest here. If Trout were a free agent right now, I don’t see how one team wouldn’t go 12 years to sign him.
Were talking about all the teams trying to one up each other for the best player in the game for his age 22+ seasons.
Source: Damon Oppenheimer will remain as the Yankees’ amateur scouting director. Other changes in baseball ops expected to be made, however.
Newman gone maybe? Or maybe they’ll create some random new department.
Not exactly too hot on Oppenheimer but he was rumored to be a potential GM candidate a few years back so I guess he’s perceived well in baseball circles. Maybe that’s why he gets to stay with the not so great results in recent years.
Maybe Newman is gone but now I’m wondering if they will just change the way they do things but keep the main guys intact. Everyone believes they had a good draft last yr. Of course the guys have to go through the system but the picks were liked among fans and alike.
My thoughts are that its developmental people are messed up, not the draft/scouters. They had a lot of kids with raw talent but they rarely pan out. Maybe because I don’t follow other teams much but it feels like we flop more than a team ran by the average bear.
Every team has players that flop. I guess the frustration that many Yankee fans have is every couple of yrs the wait continues for some kid on the farm to come up and become an stable part of the team. I think the Generation Trey thing really set them back. If one ends up as a 3 and the other an ace the screams wouldn’t be as loud. Their failure kinda started the whole “can’t develop starters” thing.
I’ll take a 2nd starter from 3 “aces of the future” any day of the week. I’m a semi apologist most of the time but for pete’s sake I think they’ve gone the longest without having developed a legit ace in the AL. (not sure about pirates.)
T=Yes the have had a hard time developing a ace. If you think about it they have had a difficult time developing reliable starters. I like Nova but he has to show he can do this yr after yr.
Can’t think of a reason that’s not just purely symbolic for putting this on his head right now. No one here has that sort of info.
Do you guys think Pineda will be in our starting rotation to start the season? And if not, when do you see him joining the big league club?
I’d say he has a legit chance if he does well in ST. If he stink it up he still might have a chance before June starts. CC and Nova is going nowhere. I’ll assume we have two FAs from the group of Tanaka, the two Korean guys, Kuroda and some lesser known names. Phelps and Pineda probably will do camp battle along with some NRI. Might be the Hughes-Chamberlain type battle though.
I just don’t see them trading for an arm when their batting is so full of question marks.
Don’t forget Paul Maholm’s name has also popped up as a possible target of the yanks.
If Pineda does in fact start in the rotation outta ST, and pitches well, we could have a really solid rotation. Hes a for sure, sleeper this yr.
Between Tanaka, Nova, and Pineda, there is alot of upside, but also some risk as well. But boy, if those 3 pitch like they can or are supposed 2, were in good shape.
Am I the only one that thinks the sox, once again, kind of back handed Mo? The day he was given the achievement award they had the 2004 team throw out first pitches? I mean c’mon!
Yes they have secretly thrown little shots here and there.
Everything there is done with a touch of Red Sox class. Why do you expect more?
The Orioles should present Papi with a new bullpen phone on his farewell tour. Or was it the Rays? I forget.
The Yankees should give him the services of a the world’s best private investigator for his going away party.
To find the real killers?
It’s possible, but it also could be a coincidence. I mean, they certainly are going to call out the 2004 team here one of the two games.
Plus, Mo really could have said he would prefer the ceremony not be in Boston, but in St. Louis. Yet he’s not the kind of person to care about such things.
Am I the only one who wishes Mo was raising up a different finger to the Boston crowd?
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