Oct
20

Sunday Night Open Thread

By

I was talking to a friend about all the awesome pitching we’ve seen in the playoffs this year, and eventually that led to a conversation about the best pitched postseason games in history and blah blah blah. By Game Score (98), Roger Clemens’ 15-strikeout, one-hit shutout of the Mariners in the Game Four of the 2000 ALCS is the best start in postseason history. Better than Don Larsen’s perfect game, better than Roy Halladay’s no-hitter, better than Bob Gibson’s 17-strikeout game. That blows my mind. I remember watching that game and thinking holy crap, but I didn’t realize just how historic that was. The video’s above.

Here is your open thread for the evening. There is no baseball until the World Series starts on Wednesday, which kinda sucks. I guess consider this preparation for the offseason. The late NFL game is the Broncos and the Colts, and that’s it for the night in sports. Talk about that game or anything else right here. Enjoy.

Categories : Open Thread

18 Comments»

  1. hogsmog says:

    “3.70 ERA, the second lowest in the American League”

    …What a wacky time the early 2000s were stats-wise. A 131 ERA+ back then, where Pettitte’s 3.74 in 2013 rolls in at 108.

  2. I think the most remarkable thing on that list is the fact that the 4th and 5th best starts in Postseason history occurred on back-to-back days.

  3. Kosmo says:

    In 2000 Clemens finished 2nd to Pedro in ERA . Pedro┬┤s ERA for the season was 1.74, Clemens 3.70. When in the history of the game has the runnerup for the ERA title posted an ERA nearly 2 ER more ? Bizarre.

  4. Kosmo says:

    and of course the Babe hurls a 14 inning CG victory in the WS.

  5. Need Pitching & Hitting says:

    Just noticed that there is only one current homegrown Yankee position player who debuted after 2008 that had a positive WAR this year.
    Melky Mesa: 0.1 bWAR in 14 PA’s

    That seems … bad.

  6. jim p says:

    About that ‘awesome pitching’ this postseason: I’m looking at that and realizing that we didn’t stand a chance if we had made it. Okay, you can’t predict baseball, and breaks and bad hops and all.

    But we would have just been completely overwhelmed by any other team. Even if Gardner was back at full.

    Next year: I have a feeling that CC finds how to pitch with less velocity, and has an outstanding year. He’s smart, he’s no slacker, and he’s that much further from surgery and his new frame. I think he’ll put it together.

    Beyond that… say we have Tanaka, Kuroda (doubtful, imo), and Pineda: I don’t think any of them could, or should, give us more than 160 innings/25 starts. We’ll have to have a couple of arms to take up the difference, give those guys a skipped turn here and there as the season progresses.

    And when I’m GM and owner of the Yankees, my bullpen is going to be exclusively guys who can pitch three innings. No more of this current fashion of Reliever Roulette where you drag out every guy every day or two, counting on everyone of them to have a good day.

    • Farewell Mo says:

      I think I’d sign up for a rotation of CC, Tanaka, Kuroda, Nova, Pineda backed up by Phelps, Warren and Nuno. Don’t see how they’re gonna pull off something better than that.

  7. Chelo says:

    What I remenber about that clemes game is that he was throwing 98mph in the 9th…..Dont ever recall seing him throw that hard as a yankee before nor after….

  8. sevrox says:

    Must have been the icy hot Geno was rubbing on Roger’s testicles during the 7th inning stretch?

  9. Darren says:

    Someone please explain to me how Clemens’s start is better than Larsen’s, even though Roger Clemens walked two guys, let up a double, and needed 138 pitches (including 50 balls) to get through his game, while Larsen was perfect and needed only 97 pitches.

    It’s obvious that GameScore is inherently flawed if something imperfect can be deemed better than perfect. That’s just illogical. I’m surprised with Mike didn’t at least qualify the comparison. Some advanced metrics just don’t pass the smell test, and this is one of them.

    • jim p says:

      Obviously. There’s cleverness and there’s common sense. And cleverness doesn’t always trump common sense.

      A pitcher went through a game, a World Series game, and not one batter reached base. There is nothing possible that a pitcher can do better than that.

      Now if Clemens had thrown a perfect game AND, say struck out 8 (Larsen had 7); or, threw 96 pitches, then you can say that was better pitched.

  10. 461deep says:

    Larsen PERFECTO Trumps all just ask Yogi. There are statistical innovations in baseball today that aim to claim objectivity but are false. They are merely a person or groups subjective view. Clemens’ game was wonderful but joins many many other such games. OOOO FOR 27 batters can never be topped by 1 hit and 1 or 2 walks. You take away the aim of the pitcher by saying 1 beats 0.

  11. WhittakerWalt says:

    Perfect games and no-nos can be pretty overrated. I think that’s what a lot of you are missing. You can get every hitter out and still not really be dominant. It’s very, very rare obviously, but it can and does happen. Philip Humber, for example. A nothing pitcher, has a perfecto to his credit.

    • forensic says:

      Completely agree.

      Was Larsen better because Mantle made an incredible catch deep in the 457 ft. death valley LCF gap on a line drive? Was Clemens worse because Tino didn’t grab a groundball double that tipped off his glove? That’s the whole difference between the 1 hit and 0 hits.

      Yes, Clemens walked two more guys than Larsen but he also struck out eight(!) more guys, which takes the defense out of plays, such as those mentioned above.

      • WhittakerWalt says:

        Right. The only hit Clemens gave up was a catchable ball (though it was well struck) that Tino could have snagged. The difference between a 1- and a no-hitter is that slight sometimes.

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