Thursday Night Open Thread

Staff Notes: Rothschild, Thomson, Mackanin
O'Brien homers in first AzFL game

Here is my spoiled Yankees fan admission: I remember almost nothing about the 1999 World Series. Most fans will remember pretty much everything about a recent World Series win — I could give you a game-by-game recap of the 1996 and 2009 World Series no problem, 1998 and 2001 would be a bit more difficult but still doable — but nothing about that 1999 series sticks out to me. Apparently Chuck Knoblauch hit a game-tying homer off Tom Glavine in the eighth inning at some point. That’s … neat. I’m embarrassed.

Anyway, here is tonight’s open thread. The Tigers and Athletics are wrapping up their ALDS with Game 5, which starts at 8pm ET and can be seen on TBS (Justin Verlander vs. Sonny Gray). Giants-Bears is the Thursday night NFL game while the Rangers are the only hockey local in action. Lots of fun stuff tonight. Talk about all of it and more here.

Staff Notes: Rothschild, Thomson, Mackanin
O'Brien homers in first AzFL game
  • Nick

    Bruins v AVS!

  • WhittakerWalt

    I remember that Chad Curtis hit a game-winner off of Mike Remlinger, then when Jim Gray came to interview him Curtis gave the cold shoulder. What a war of assholes that was.
    I also remember that Bobby Cox and Chipper Jones complained that the Yankees had hit a bunch of YS “cheapie” home runs. Somehow they seemed to forget they were also playing in Yankee Stadium, and could just as easily have hit some of those “cheapies” themselves.

    • Pat D

      Yea, Curtis did that because of how Gray “mistreated” Pete Rose in an interview where they unveiled the ridiculous All-Century Team.

      • WhittakerWalt

        I know. Even at the time I thought to myself “Jim Gray is a self-aggrandizing prick, but I hate seeing the way these players close ranks around Pete Rose.”
        Chad Curtis has always been an asshole. Even before his, ahem, legal trouble.

    • Wheels
      • RetroRob

        BTW Does anyone else find the sentence Curtis received a little surprising? Up to 15 years for inappropriately “touching” teenage girls? Touching? Not sex. Not rape. Touching. It all sounds quite creepy and wrong, but the few times I’ve read the story when it was first reported and then when he was sentenced, I keep looking for page two of the article, because it feels like there is something missing.

        In one state, a teacher has sex and in charged with the rape of a 14-year-old, who then goes on to commit suicide at 17. He gets 30 days. Chad Curtis does creepy touching and is send about for 15 years. Something here is just missing.

        • Robinson Tilapia


        • Wheels

          Maybe he had a terrible lawyer.

  • Eddard

    Yesterday I said the decision to pitch Garrit Cole over AJ Burnett would be the death blow to the Pirates and it was. Similarly, Bob Melvin is going with Sonny Gray over Bartolo Colon and it’s going to cost him. Ain’t no way ain’t no how the As beat Verlander tonight, as much as I want them to. You always go with experience in the postseason. Experience prevails.

    • FDSC

      Down the stretch Girardi put in Zoilo Almonte to run for A Rod on third base in a key Late and close spot. ZA was promptly thrown out at the plate after hesitating to run on a ground ball he had no business running on.

      After that guys like Betances never got a shot.

      Rookies make mistakes that are more glaring and frequent than those of vets.

    • I’m One

      Of course, it’s also possible that Burnett would have sucked last night as well. Or maybe he only would have given up 2 runs. Either way, they still lose. Cole did an outstanding job. There’s no way to know if AJ could have done enough to win and it’s highly likely he wouldn’t have.

    • WhittakerWalt

      AJ Burnett gave up 7 runs in his previous start. The guy is not exactly nails in pressure situations.

  • KEN

    The Cardnials have 5 players on their roster from the 2009 draft.Here is the Yankees pick nd the Cardnials picks. The yankees had a chance to get them all except Miller.The Cardnials drafted all of them after the Yankees picked!
    19. St. Louis Cardinals — Shelby Miller, RHP, Brownwood (Texas) HS
    29. New York Yankees — Slade Heathcott, CF, Texas HS, Texarkana, Texas
    76. New York Yankees — J.R. Murphy, C, Pendleton HS, Bradenton, Fla.
    98. St. Louis Cardinals — Joseph Kelly, RHP, UC Riverside
    135. New York Yankees — Adam Warren, RHP, Univ. of North Carolina
    375. New York Yankees — Brett Gerritse, RHP, Pacifica HS, Cypress, Calif
    399. St. Louis Cardinals — Matt Carpenter, 3B, Texas Christian
    615. New York Yankees — Thomas Keeling, LHP, Oklahoma St
    639. St. Louis Cardinals — Trevor Rosenthal, RHP, Cowley County CC
    675. New York Yankees — Richard Soignier, SS, Louisiana-Monroe
    699. St. Louis Cardinals — Matthew Adams, C, Slippery Rock
    Who is to blame scouting,drafting or both?

    • Billy W

      Also 2000 the Braves drafted Wainwright one pick after the Yankees

    • A Dead Horse




  • Mick taylor

    1996-2000was sublime time to be yank fan. Should yanks try to sign kershaw and schwerzer after2014 like when they signed cc and Aj. Hope they stay under189 next year to sign them .

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      It’s very unlikely both Kershaw and Scherzer make it to free agency.

      And getting under $189M next year will likely have little to do with whether or not they tried to or were able to sign either or both of them.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Schwerzer would come pretty cheap.

      I’ll show myself out.

  • Billy W

    Somewhere in my house is the 1999 world series tape and I remember Chad Curtis hit the walk off homer.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    Mike, it’s OK. That’s not called being spoiled. It just called that you now have enough life behind you that the years are starting to bleed into one another.

    Soon, that teenage Yankee fan you want to talk baseball with so badly will just think of you as “that old guy.” Can’t fight it. Just hit the gym a lot.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    There’s something psychiatrically wrong with Steve Mariucci. I don’t normally watch the NFL Network, so this may be old hat.

    • Wheels

      He’s fucking crazy.

    • Steinbrenner’s Ghost

      What did he do?

      • Robinson Tilapia

        Adderall, from the looks of it.

  • JGYank

    BABIP, wRC, wRC+, wOBA, WAR, FIP, xFIP, OBP, SLG, ISO, OPS, OPS+, WRAA, BB %, K %, BB/9, K/9, HR/9, H/9, HR/FB, UZR, Total Zone, and other stats

    • WhittakerWalt

      I don’t get it.

      • JGYank

        Not here, too… This guy has been stealing my username everywhere I post. Just ban him now before he causes a problem.

      • JGYank

        I told him Ichiro sucks offensively now and he hasn’t left me alone ever since while making fun of the fact that I use advanced stats and making other stupid insults. He always makes stupid comments using my username so others think it’s me when it’s really not. He really needs a life…

        • WhittakerWalt

          Some people are just afraid of information, I guess. Can’t imagine why anyone would want to broadcast their ignorance for all the world to see. Maybe that’s why he’s afraid of using his own handle.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            They develop the narrative first, then resist any actual information that fucks with it.

            I really like Ichiro. I’m glad I’ve gotten to watch him play closely these past two seasons. I’m not going to make an argument for him to play every day and ignore actual statistical reality, though.

        • Your Worst Nightmare

          There’s my real handle. You can cry and lie all you want about your version. You attempted an illogical argument w/ “Steve” back in Aug, same as with me. When you start to lose you cry. You have no logical basis and only spew stats in an attempt to portray some kind of knowledge of the sport. When you got schooled, you ran, but not before becoming crass. You got stomped by a faster, smarter, more intellectual opponent. Don’t lie to the people here. You can’t pretend anymore. Next time you get into a debate, here or in person, remember this and perhaps you’ll be better because of it.

          • Mr. Roth

            Is this post real?

            • Robinson Tilapia

              This is like “alternate universe” me on a bad day.

          • JGYank

            I didn’t belittle you because of the debate, I belittle you because you’re ass that’s incredibly immature. You have shown you have nothing better to do than to insult me and try to ruin my rep among others and get them to support you by making fun of me. Regardless of the debate you proved you’re just out to get anyone who disagrees with you. You haven’t made a single comment after I first replied to you that wasn’t meant to get back at me. You continually use my handle to insult me anyway you can and wrote comments pretending you were me to make me look worse. You actually called yourself homo while pretending to me so I would look bad. I’m not going to play your stupid little game. And no I didn’t leave because of the debate, I left because posting there is a waste of my time especially with you and your stupid followers stealing my name and insulting me. Why bother with you guys and waste my time? You’ll just continue to try to make me look bad. I’ve been posting on here for a while now, anyway. People realize I’m not a troll. I never had a problem with any commenter before you. I have told you leave me alone and you still continue to follow me and bother me, which is pathetic.

            As for the debate, I tried to explain to you several times my points which make perfect sense. Batting average doesn’t show a complete picture of a hitter at all and a .262 Ba is only average anyway. Hits are a bad way to show a player’s skill since the number of hits you have is influenced by the number of ABs you have. As I have said many times, Ichiro doesn’t get on base, doesn’t hit for power, doesn’t hit the ball hard, doesn’t walk, swings out of the zone and so on. He can put the ball in play, make contact, and bunt but that’s about it when he’s in the batter’s box. I never said he wasn’t fast, I said he is declining (including his speed) and relies on infield hits instead of driving the ball. Ichiro is only good on the basepaths and defensively. Can’t hit anymore. I would use more in depth stats but you obviously don’t accept them and wouldn’t understand them anyway. Call me what you want. Don’t care. I will admit when I’m wrong, but in this case I’m not wrong at all. You haven’t even shown me 1 good piece of evidence saying how Ichiro is good or why the stats I use aren’t as good as BA. All you talk about is BA and hits. I’m not afraid of you but you’re really need to just get a life and go away. You obviously feel like you’re right but you and that guy Steve are the only two people in the Ichiro’s offense fanclub. I can’t comprehend how you still think he’s good offensively but whatever. I don’t give a shit anymore. And when I made the ABs influence the number of hits a player has argument you said no shit which baffled me after calling me a moron for saying that. You make no sense and you’re goal is just to be a pain in my ass any way you can. Now leave me alone, for good.

            • We Apologize!

              We’re sorry that you don’t admit when you’re wrong. We’re also sorry that your defense on this last post is so off base its crazy. We’ve suggested you read your own posts to review the bizarre things you’ve posted. We’re also sorry that you can say things like “Ichiro Sucks” and not provide one stat to prove such a claim. OBP? Using walks? IF YOU KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT THE PLAYERS ON THE TEAM YOU MIGHT BENEFIT. We’ll leave you alone… sure, you’ve bored us from “go”. But in leaving you to your sorry, stat laden existence we say this: 1. Check the stats since first record of the AVERAGE in MLB. See how many times Ichiro’s SUCKY BA falls below that. But to you, oh wizard of all that is statistical, Average must = Suck. 2. (and we’ve been saving this for a while you clown) If you knew even one thing about Ichiro… just ONE, you’d know the man DOESNT WANT TO WALK. He never has. He also has the power to hit HRs and CHOOSES NOT TO USE IT (both FACTS, look it up). He only wants to hit. Even when he set the record for hits (2004) he only walked 49 times. So you want to use a stat (OBP) that utilizes bb/hpb to examine a player that doesn’t even WANT TO WALK? As we’ve mentioned several times, know what you’re talking about before you claim omnipotence. Talk about statistical manipulation.

              Yes, we’ll leave you alone alright. But you might want to stop regurgitating stats you find on the internet (and NO “using advanced stats”… sabermetrics, by the way… does not mean reading and repeating.) You need to know how to apply the stats. You’ve mistakenly assumed we had no knowledge sabermetrics quite the contrary… all along we just allowed you to make that assumption and show us just how much of a narcissistic fool you really are. And THAT is why you will forever just be a lowly person trying to prove their worth in a post forum. C’ya clown…

              • JGYank

                It doesn’t matter what the player wants or chooses to do. I’m sure Jeter WANTS to bat 1.000. It’s all about what they do and what value they provide. Getting on base and hitting for power has value and Ichiro doesn’t provide value in those ways. BA treats every hit the same whether it’s a homer or single and ignores park effects, power, getting on base besides hits, etc. Everything a hitter does involves skill. And bringing up what Ichiro did in 2004 isn’t relevant to how good he is now. And for a guy that wants to hit .262 isn’t high at all. So tell me, if his extremely important BA is only .262 and his OBP, SLG, OPS, and other batting numbers are bad, how is he good at hitting?

                “You’ve mistakenly assumed we had no knowledge sabermetrics quite the contrary… all along we just allowed you to make that assumption and show us just how much of a narcissistic fool you really are.”

                Sure you know sabermetrics. That’s why you continue to use BA right? I know how to apply the stats. When you are looking for stats that show how good hitters are, you use stats like wOBA and wRC+ which include all aspects of hitting and wRC+ also throws in park effects and is league adjusted. I haven’t even used sabermetrics in my argument since I’m trying to use simple stats you know. I consider OBP to be a pretty simple stat.

                You make no sense. Not only does BA give you limited info, your arguments about what Ichiro wants to do and how good he was in the past have nothing to do with how good he is at hitting right now. I don’t have to prove my worth to anyone. I come here to talk about baseball because I enjoy. Stop trying to insult me because I don’t give a shit what you say and it only backfires on you. I’m interested to see how you respond to this. Will you continue with your illogical argument or will you revert back to the insults? Although you seem to have done both in your last post… But hopefully you were honest when you said you would leave me alone.

              • JGYank

                Just stop already. You didn’t even have the balls to post under your own name so you hid under mine. And your definition of a narcissist must be someone who uses sabermetrics and defends their argument. If I thought your posts proved me wrong, I will admit it.

                And stop with bs and changing stories. Their site may use sabermetrics but you definitely don’t. I’d like to see you contribute one meaningful post that makes sense and doesn’t involve a cheap shot at me. You wasted a lot of my time and you are clearly just insulted that I won’t back down like you want me to. All you know how to do is insult people. You’ll just hide behind your computer screen and change names as usual. I stand by everything I said.

        • Any Time, Always Ready

          Lying to others is no way to go through life son. I know you don’t want to tell all your “friends” here how when you don’t debate well you become crass and attempt to belittle people. Only this time, you met someone far superior got schooled and you ran. But go ahead, fantasize… you NEED to.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            Robert Plant once said “you’re nobody until you’ve been trolled.” Welcome to the big time, JGYANK.

            I paraphrased some of that.

            • Just Observing

              That’s a funny comment! Taking into account the Wikipedia internet slang definition of “troll”, then considering that JGYank actually was the one who initially began (and continued)several arguments by using methods described on the Wiki page, It sure makes your comical post quite ironic.

              Ability (or INABILITY)to utilize the correct tools for a valid argument can be common common within people of the same ilk.

              As merely an observer, your posted “quote” may have been just fine (and more accurate) sans 3 words and a contraction.

  • Jonathan C.

    Joe Girardi was still on the team in 99? DVDs were around in 99?

    • Robinson Tilapia

      I’m fairly positive I was already buying DVDs in ’99.

      • Pat D

        That’s when I got my first player. Spent $300 for something that might retail for $20 today.

        I even remember the first 5 titles I went out and bought that day.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I remember “The Replacement Killers” and “Dark City” being my first two.

          • Pat D

            Lethal Weapon 4, The Mask of Zorro, The Negotiator, The Truman Show and US Marshals.

            Followed soon thereafter by The Good the Bad and the Ugly, A Hard Day’s Night and Help!

            At least half of those have been replaced with upgrades of one sort.

      • D$1184

        I think that’s when the big fight between HD DVD and Blu-Ray was going on. Obviously, Blu-Ray won out. Thankfully, I only wasted money on 1 HD DVD.

        • Pat D

          No, that wasn’t till the mid-2000’s.

          In ’99 DVD was still gaining steam, but it hadn’t yet pushed VHS completely aside.

          • RetroRob

            Should I get rid of my 8-track player and cartridges?

            Fact: Some bands still release 8-track tapes. Don’t know why.

            • Robinson Tilapia

              Dump the 8-track player. Keep the quad receiver.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Neither of those were even on the horizon in ’99.

          I wisely resisted until one won out. Knowing me, and my luck with video game systems throughout the years, I’d have been an early HD-DVD adopter if I hadn’t shown restraint.

          • Pat D

            Yea, I resisted that for a good long while. Mostly because I thought the war would continue longer than it did, and neither would take off. I’m glad Blu Ray won, because the reviews I read told me it was a better format.

  • forensic

    So, does someone need to explain to Eli what color uniforms the Giants are wearing?

    • Robinson Tilapia

      I feel minimal emotional connection to the modern day Giants except for postseason “because I’m a New Yorker”/bandwagon fandom. Still, this is pretty hard to understand.

      • forensic

        I’m just listening on the radio right now (dreading watching it DVR’d later) and they sound absolutely baffled about what he’s thinking and doing. They said the last one wasn’t even close or explainable.

        • Pat D

          It was another case where he and the receiver weren’t even on the same book, let alone the same page.

          Whose fault that was is anybody’s guess.

    • Pat D

      Are you suggesting he’s Vinny Testaverde-like color blind?

      Because he just frankly sucks right now.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    This is the most hilarious NFL game ever.

  • Lukaszek

    I wonder if I can ever recap 2009 anymore. I kinda get the games mixed up

    Game 1: Cliff Lee owns the Yankees by pitching a complete game and striking out ten. CC Sabathia sucks and gives up two homeruns to Chase Utley. The Yankees get a garbage run in the ninth inning off a throwing error by Pedro Feliz.

    Game 2: Phillies get on board first on a scorching RBI single by Matt Stairs, but Teixeira launches a 415 foot blast into the bullpen to tie it, and then MVP Matsui hits a go ahead homerun down the line to give the Yankees a lead. The Yankees get another run on a Posada single, but Posada gets thrown out tagging up in a controversial double play.

    Game 3: A-Rod hits a camera that is just over the fence in right field, and there is a shitload of reviews before it is called a homerun. Swisher and Matsui both hit homeruns to left field. Andy Pettitte adds a memorable RBI single. A bunch of Phillies scrubs then hit solo homeruns homeruns, but the Yanks hold on to win 8-5.

    Game 4: Ryan Howard slides home, never touches home plate, yet the Phillies get a late run to tie the game. In the ninth the first two Yankees go down in order, and there is an 0-2 count on Johnny Damon, but he manages to fight off like 7 pitches until he lines one to left for a hit. He then goes from first to third on a glorious double steal. Posada then hits a single to score Damon. In the bottom of the ninth Mo throws a perfect inning.

    Game 5: AJ throws a clunker while Cliff Lee dominates again. Chase Utley hits more homeruns.

    Game 6: Matsui fouls off several pitches off Pedro Martinez, then finally hits a homerun into the Bronx night. You could really tell that it was gonna happen one way or another, the foul balls were really hard hit. He then added a two run single and a two run double off the top of the wall, the latter of which would’ve been a grand slam if it wasn’t knocked down by the wind. Ryan Howard hit a two run opposite field homerun, but it was too late to ‘pologize by now. Shane Victorino grounded out to Cano for the final out of the Word Series

    • Tom Q

      MAJOR omission in the Game 4 recap: it was ARod, not Posada, who drove in Damon with a double off the left field wall — Alex later said it was the biggest hit of his career. Posada drove in Texeira (who’d walked prior to ARod’s at-bat) and Alex with a single that put the game out of Mo-reach at 7-4.

  • gc

    1998 had the feeling of the inevitable. A steamroller that simply couldn’t be stopped. 1999 felt (to me anyway) like a victory lap. They were as dominant as any of those Yankee teams. In many ways, it was my favorite of those seasons. And they had the best post-season record of any of those dynasty teams with only one loss. You could tell after game 1 of the World Series when they knocked Maddux out of the game in the 8th inning and took the lead to win the game that the Braves knew they had no shot in that series. I loved that team!

    • Joel

      I don’t remember the quote, but Smoltz said that the Yankees played the best series he’d ever seen, and they just rolled over the Braves. He was bewildered and contrite.

      • mike

        I was at the game and there was no juice in the park even when the Yanks were losing, as it just seemed foretold the Yanks would win the series going away and no one really gave the Braves a chance anyway. we had all seen the lesser Yankee team beat the Braves in their prime a few years earlier..

        Plus, the Mets and Braves had that great series, so the Braves /Yanks was kind of anticlamactic …and the media was trying to play up “who would be the team of the 90’s” to draw attention to the series because everyone knew the Yanks would cut right thru the Braves

  • Get Phelps Up

    Are you guys really going to let this day go by and not mention the 1 year anniversary of this?

    • Robinson Tilapia


  • Ivan

    I think with that 99 team was that it so freaking good by that point it was sooooo inevitable that they was going to win. They were 11-1 in the playoffs and the one lost came by the hands of super human Pedro Martinez. There wasn’t much of dat stand out in 99. They were so freakin good it was basically whoopy doo by the time they won.

    96-First WS since 78, beating the favorite Atlanta Braves, DJ was a rookie. Rivera breaks out. All da heroics in da WS.

    98-Set the record for most total wins, avenge the lost in 97 to the Indians (who were probably the only team that stood a chance against em) the birth El Duke, Martinez slam.

    2000-u got the subway series

    99-blank. By dat point, Jeter has arguably his best season ever, Rivera is a monster, they got two rings, just came off one of the most dominate seasons by a team ever, they beaten the braves already, the Indians got knocked off. By dat point, it was almost like “yawn”, we get it u guys are good.

  • forensic

    I get emails from the NFL (why? I don’t know), but today’s email was titled “NFC Powerhouses Collide in Week 6 Showdown”.

    Um, which ‘powerhouses’ would those be???

  • Pat D

    Well, baseball is pretty much dead to me now. Two teams I fucking despise in the ALCS, and two teams I just don’t like because of their histories with the Yankees in the NLCS.

    At least I have football to fall back on! Oh, the Giants are 0-6.

    At least I have hockey and basketball to fall back on! Oh, the Rangers will find a way to be disappointing and the Knicks are mediocre.

    When does college basketball season start? Go Tar Heels!

    • Betty Lizard

      Cleveland. They lost.
      Tampa. They lost.
      Pittsburgh. They lost.
      Oakland. They lost.

      I’m done. Unless a team wants to pay me to root for them.

      • Lukaszek

        Pretty much same here. When the most likeable team in the playoffs is the fucking LA Dodgers, you know it’s gonna be a shitty October

        • Betty Lizard

          Hee. I hate the Dodgers. And you know who.

          I meant to write “unless a team wants to pay me to root for the other team.”

          But no one could pay me enough to root for Boston. Among other reasons, the aesthetics of the game are important to me and that team takes ugly to depths even I couldn’t have imagined.

          • ropeadope

            I hate the Dodgers. And you know who.

            Not Mattingly, right? Beckett, sure. A-Gon, of course. But not Mattingly. Say it ain’t so.

            • Betty Lizard

              No, Boston. :-)

              • ropeadope

                (Breathes sigh of relief) lol, guess my reading comprehension skills need a tune-up. I couldn’t have been further off from your intended meaning. Okay, everything is good with the world once again.

  • mustang

    Another early exit for Mr. Billy Beane 0 for 7 at least he has something to share with Nick Swisher.

  • mt

    Swisher, Burnett, Martin, Colon – no World Series for you. (Tabata and Gerrit Cole too but I have no strong feelings there – I really wanted no part of the mugs of especially Swisher or Burnett in any championship series.)

    Now we just need the Boston Red Sox to lose – I am no major fan of the Tigers but I prefer them to win over the hairy monsters from Fenway.

    Also I have a feeling if Tigers can go to World Series or win World Series they would be less likely to go absolutely berserk with their Cano offer. However, I also felt if Tigers lost in first round they definitely outbid the Yankees substantially for Cano.

    Now having made ALCS where Tigers still may lose there is more of a question mark as to what they will do with Cano.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      That Cano offer is quite an assumption on your part. I don’t see it. They’ve got, and are going to have to give out, some very big deals.

  • Comrade Al

    Paul O’Neill’s gritty at-bat in the 9th against John Rocker culminating in an RBI single to tie (?) Game 1.

    You know there and then.

    • Comrade Al


  • Mandy Stankiewicz

    2001’s loss in Arizona was so brutal, I could never forget that series. Personally, it’s tied to so many awful things that were happening at the time, but strictly as a baseball event, such an awful loss.