Nov
24

Update: No traction in talks with Cano, Yankees have other offers out

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3:56pm: According to Jon Heyman, the Yankees are “currently engaged” in talks with Beltran, Drew, Kuroda, Jacoby Ellsbury, Shin-Soo Choo, and various unnamed mid-rotation starters. Matt Garza and Ubaldo Jimenez are not in the mix at the moment.

1:12pm: Via Buster Olney: The Yankees still have offers out to various free agents even after agreeing to sign Brian McCann last night. He says there is currently no traction in talks with Robinson Cano and the team doesn’t want to sit around and wait. I dig it. In addition to Cano, I’m guessing they have offers out to … Carlos Beltran, Stephen Drew, Grant Balfour, and Hiroki Kuroda. Whaddya think?

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League
  • Bavarian Yankee

    maybe even Garza or Haren.

    • TWTR

      Yeah, given their past preferences and current needs, they are probably in on SP.

    • Tisha

      Jay Z is going to learn the hard way. Window of opportunity is starting to close.

  • Bobby

    Why this obsession with Drew? Based on his refusal of Boston’s offer he is going to cost quite a bit and he can’t hit at all. I don’t think his pros outweigh his cost and the pick that will go to Boston.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Can’t hit at all?

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      Drew is an above average hitter for his position.
      He can hit a little bit. Pretty well against RHP actually, just not so much vs. LHP.
      As for why the interest, he’s probably the last remaining left side of the IF player who is a legitimate starter, which happens to be a current need for the Yankees.

      I would be wary of the cost and his injury history and past inconsistency though.

      Like McCann, he’s probably the best available, but comes with long-term concerns and probably a big cost.

  • MB923

    I agree with all except Drew. Already have 2 shortstops on the roster (3 actually if you count Nunez). Plus even if they did, he’d likely decline. Other one I may see coming is Nathan instead of Balfour.

    Let’s say they sign 2 more players with QO (say Beltran and Drew) Is that a 2nd and 3rd round draft pick loss?

    • Bavarian Yankee

      yes, 2nd and 3rd round OR supplemental picks (if they get one or more). Say Kuroda and Granderson sign elsewhere then the supplemental picks are gone if they sign 2 more players that rejected a QO.

    • Dave

      Drew wouldn’t be terrible as we can move people around — just because you played SS before doesn’t mean you can’t move to 2B. Easy transition actually.

      For the draft picks, Yanks lose then next best pick so that could be 2nd/3rd rounders, but if we get compensation from Grandy or someone else, that would be the first to go.

      • Zach Pepp

        Drew doesn’t want to play anywhere but shortstop that’s why he signed with the Red Sox last year for less money then what the yankees offered him

        • Dave

          He wasn’t the one I was suggesting we move actually. Watching Jeter play SS at age 87 is getting more and more painful. If the decision had to be made, I’d say Jeter to 3B (if no AROD), Drew at SS and Nunez (or Ryan) at 2B.

          • Nick Social

            Listening to people complain about how painful it is to watch Derek Jeter play shortstop is WAY more painful than actually watching Derek Jeter play shortstop.

            • Dave

              Either you’re 12 and never got to see how Derek use to be able to get to balls or you just ignore his range now. His range is below average at best — SS is not a typical position to retire from so I’m not sure why there is such a push to keep him there until his last day. He can hopefully still hit, but asking him to do what he used to be able to do at SS is too much now — his range and his classic jump throw is gone…

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          If he still insists on that, he won’t be coming to the Yankees.
          He might be more flexible in that demand if he came with a long-term contract. I think part of his SS insistence last season may have been because he was taking a one-year contract and trying to rebuild his value, which he’d have a better chance of maximizing as a starting SS than as a part-time 3B/SS.
          I doubt he comes to NYY though.

          • BamBamMusings

            Drew does not seem like a good fit at all. Neither from his standpoint, or ours. A contract north of 4 years 60 mil is lunacy when you consider all of the holes the Yanks have to fill. I’d rather go Nathan + Balfour + Choo and Tanaka and call it a day..

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      They’d lose their 3 highest picks.
      If they got compensation picks for Cano, Granderson, and/or Kuroda signing elsewhere, those picks would be included in determining their 3 highest picks.

      • MB923

        Wow. I had no idea compensation picks would be lost. I thought they were protected. Better hope Yanks finish all their QO signings possible first before Granderson signs elsewhere

        • Dave

          Unfortunately, that changed with the new system. Would have liked protection 1:1 for players lost like their was in the older system, but that didn’t stay.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          The timing doesn’t really matter. The top 3 picks don’t have to be determined as soon as the player is signed. They wouldn’t be spared just because Granderson signed later.

  • http://twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110

    I’m hoping all of the above have offers in hand from the Yanks…as well as the Yankees.

    Knowing this, I think the Yankees strongly believe that ARod will get at least a full year ban…thus saving them a lot of cash.

    Would it be crazy to think that a team without Cano, but adding McCann, Beltran, Balfour, Drew, Kuroda and Tanaka would be better than giving Cano $25+ million a season?

    I think initially, it’s a scary thing to think of, but Beltran/Balfour/Drew/Kuroda would all command no more than 3 years. Tanaka would, but he’s what, 25?

    Gardner
    Jeter
    Beltran
    Tex
    McCann
    Soriano
    Reynolds (DH)
    Drew (3B)
    Nunez (2B)

    CC
    Kuroda
    Tanaka
    Nova
    FA/Phelps/Warren

    Balfour and Robertson anchor the pen with Kelley and a few more pieces?

    Bench comprising of Romine/Cervelli, Ichiro/Wells, Ryan.

    Again, I think this could be…after the initial shell shock, a wiser plan than giving Cano a mega deal.

    • Dave

      A lot of moving pieces would need to come together to compensate for losing Cano. Still think that is a plan B, but would take it if we can’t get Cano on something realistic.

      • http://twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110

        yeah, this is basically if Cano get’s above $200M or 8 or more years.

    • zs190

      Why would Drew take <=3 when Jhonny Peralta, a slightly inferior player, just signed for 4/52?

    • Bob Buttons

      Is it just that I can’t read or you used to go by 10 and not 110?

      • http://twitter.com/matt__harris Matt ::Sec110

        outside of a type, I’ve been ‘110’ for a few years now…was ‘105’ in 2009/10.

    • lou

      Matt Gardner is not a lead off hitter. Yankees need Choo!!

      • SaeWhat??

        Who da fuq is Matt Gardner?

  • Dave

    Personally I think these are Yankee spread rumors to get Cano back to reality. The Yanks are his only leverage with any other team so if they start sending rumors of signing others, that may get him running back to get a deal done.

    As much as I want Cano, I would hate to see up pass up every other FA taking his negotiations into January and then lose him and have nothing. Smart business move (although I still think we’re bluffing)…

  • JoeyA

    Gotta give them shit when they deserve it, but you have to give them credit when it’s due as well.

    They learned they can’t just wait around for choice A, they have to be flexible & have a multi-faceted strategy. They especially can’t wait when your choice A is asking for 10/300, which is absurd. I think he’ll come down, but you can’t wait for him to realize that while everyone is signing everywhere else.

    Also, nothing more than a shot in the dark here, but I think the org doesn’t believe Alex will be suspended for less than a year, especially after his latest antics.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    Yanks are doing such a better job on the leverage end than Cano’s people are. Jay Z’s been terrible for Robbie this far. All these demands have gotten him are eye rolls throughout baseball. Meanwhile, the Yankees are actually keeping to their word, making moves, and putting pressure on Robbie and making him believe there’s only a finite pool of money available. Now, I don’t believe it to be true, and I think good enough money for Robbie shows up at the end, from the Yanks, regardless of how much they’ve spent, but it’s still a great tactic on their part.

    Being big and bold works better on rhymes than it does in agent work.

    • Dalek Jeter

      I agree across the board, I’m just nervous that at the end of the day Cano comes back to the table with New York to seriously negotiate only to have NY say, you know the contract we offered you was just a starting point. Here’s an extra year and 30 mil for being out in the cold for so long!

    • Wicomico Pinstripes

      Agreed. Cano’s camp can’t be happy with how things are going so far. But with that said, it’s only November. There’s plenty of time for suitors to come calling.

    • MC

      Jay Z is a buffoon. I’ve never liked the guy, really. That’s MY New York state of mind. Cano’s made the wrong choice latching on to him. Herein lies the major issue with Cano, that he is so caught up in the fame of thinks, his mind is out of whack and that concerns me, a lot.

      We don’t need a $180mm player huffing and puffing on the team. Food for thought.

      • LiterallyFigurative

        If it’s Boras making these claims, meeting with other teams and holding out their clients until January, we just accept it, but since it’s Jay-Z, we think it’s insane?

        I’m not saying the tactic will work, but don’t we see this every year?

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I think Jay Z shot higher with the salary demands than I think Boras even would have. The trick would have been to make the demands believable and ask for, say Alex/Pujols’s deals. I think $300 million for Robbie is beyond what’s believable for any team in baseball.

          • Ed

            When A-Rod opted out, Boras asked for $350 million. At the time, everyone thought he was crazy – no way does 32 year old A-Rod match the contract he signed at 25, let alone top it. We all know how that ended.

            • Robinson Tilapia

              I’d actually forgotten about that number, probably for the best.

              • fin

                Cant forget that someone gave Prince Fielder over 200m. I don’t think any one would make the argument that Prince is a better player than Cano. So, who knows where Cano’s biggest offer will come from.

  • Chris

    I don’t really know how the FA contract talks really work, but I would guess a lot of these offers are more like potential parameters for a deal which let the players and agents know the team is interested more than anything.

    So, I would think most of these offers are really there to keep them in discussions as the players talk to different teams. It would seem to me that when a team is really serious they make an offer indicating it and more in depth discussions proceed from that point.

    I didn’t hear anything about the McCann contract until it was done which leads me to believe the team told his agent they were interested but nothing went further until they stepped up with an offer somewhere in the realm of what they wound up agreeing to.

  • Kosmo

    If Jeter is content being the DH for most of 2014 then signing Drew makes sense, if Jeter is not on board moving to the full-time DH role then a Drew signing makes little sense.
    I´d prefer NY deal with the hole at 3B. NY will need offense at 3B.
    Chavez, Headley, Uribe, Prado, Ramirez just to name a few. Prado I like a lot for his versatility, Ramirez because it would be a 1 year deal. Uribe wouldn´t cost alot. Chavez would require a platoon partner. I see Jagielo in the 3B picture come 2015 so NY doesn´t need a longterm answer just a 1 or 2 year stopgap.
    I´m beginning to think Beltran will be a Yankee within the next 2 weeks.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      I think the idea would be that Drew (or I suppose Jeter) would get some time at 3B.
      Prado is signed through 2016.

  • Delbert Grady

    At this point, the Yankees gave up their first round pick so they should sign everyone. If they’re serious about building a classic Yankee team, being strong up the middle is key. Cano needs to be retained. Choo or Ellsbury would be very nice. I prefer Choo to return to the on base percentage patient ways of the past but wouldn’t mind seeing Ellsbury out there. He plays hard and makes things happen. I also would strongly consider Drew at SS/3b. A season of Brendan Ryan at bats if Jeter DH’s is like letting the pitcher hit while having a DH with little power. It doesn’t make sense. Drew will show some power at SS that can cover for Jeter if he DH’s. I’d also grab Garza and I’d make Nathan a strong offer. At this point, we’ve given up the pick for McCann so you might as well fill in as many cracks with free agents as possible as the prospects are just not ready to come fill in these major holes. And if Heathcott or Mason Williams progress, Gardner will be a free agent soon and Soriano will be off the roster after next season as well (along with Ichiro/Wells). No prospects are being blocked since none are ready and there will be openings in the roster going forward. Reloading this year makes a lot of sense.

    • http://twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110

      what’s wrong with Gardner as a part of the up the middle team you’re trying to build?

      If they are sticking to the 189 (with or without ARod’s suspension) I don’t think Ellsbury or Choo…Ellsbury more than Choo.

      • Delbert Grady

        There’s nothing wrong with Gardner. An OF of Choo or Ellsbury, Gardner and Soriano would be fine with me. My up the middle comment is add another high impact bat to the OF.

    • Wicomico Pinstripes

      What does giving up their first round pick have to do with any other signings? Just because they lost their pick they have to go all in? Draft picks have become more and more overvalued.

      • Jimmy

        You realize that Mike Trout was a 1st round draft pick once? Draft picks can be overvalued but they are very far from worthless in the 1st round/1st supplemental round.

        • Wicomico Pinstripes

          Do you realize Brien Taylor was once the first overall pick? The draft is a crapshoot. And who said they were worthless? I just said they’ve become overvalued. The average career WAR for the number 18 pick is less than 10. McCann will easily eclipse that during the length of his contract.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            Thank you.

      • Delbert Grady

        I don’t think you understand how the system works right now. When you sign a guy like McCann, you forfeit your 1st round pick. If you keep signing top free agents this off season with draft pick compensation attached to them, you can’t lose more 1st round picks or future ones. You lose your 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder and so on. If you’re going to forfeit your pick to sign free agents, it makes sense to sign them all in the same off season. I’d trade a 2nd round, 3rd round pick and so on for Choo, Ellsbury, Beltran and basically any free agent with draft pick compensation attached this off season.

        • Wicomico Pinstripes

          I understand the system perfectly. You make a valid point in saying you’d rather give up a second round pick for Choo. But just because the Yankees lost their first pick is not the reason to go all in. The reason for signing players of this caliber is to address areas of need. That’s all I was trying to say.

          • Vincent Vega

            That’s a stupid argument because it isn’t made if we aren’t addressing needs in those additional positions.

  • Nicknowsky

    Per David Waldstein Cano and the Yankees are set to meet next week…he’s not gonna be signed or announced till the winter meetings begin

  • Dalek Jeter

    Mike is apparently not taking any shit today…also sorry I called you out for bashing the team the past 16 months or so Mike! Love ya! Don’t ban me please!

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      No, it’s not that. That pain in the ass Meet Me At The Bat or whatever keeps coming back under new handles. I have to get rid of the replies too, otherwise it breaks the thread.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        Thank you for taking care of that, even though we lost some zinger replies along the way.

  • Minka Kelky

    Forget about Drew. Until Derek Jeter says he’s not playing shortstop he’s going to play full time at SS. They are going to go pitching first then bring back a guy like Reynolds who can play 3rd and 1st and bats right.

    I think they will position themselves to be under $189m IF Arod is suspended, otherwise they will bite the bullet and pay the tax.

    • Dalek Jeter

      Wasn’t there an article here a couple weeks ago about Levine talking to Derek about stepping back and playing a lot of DH this coming season?

  • JGYank

    With a bunch of offers out it’s possible we end up going over 189 even if we don’t intend to if a bunch a guys accept, but that’s unlikely. Cano might actually be the odd man out if they decide they have signed enough guys at a certain point and want to stay under the tax limit.

    This will probably put us over 189, but I would be fine with resigning Cano, Kuroda, Granderson, and adding Tanaka. Fills two rotation spots, 2b, and the last outfield spot. Might only be able to sign 2 or 3 of them though. Problem is we’re still without a 3b, infield depth, and pen help. Plus we will be stuck with one of Phelps/Pineda/Warren/Nuno as a 5th starter and all of them are question marks but that would probably happen no matter what.

    I would be ok with going after a different outfielder, but Ellsbury will be really expensive and misses a lot games, Choo has huge platoon splits and isn’t great defensively, and Beltran is old, has shown signs of decline, and isn’t great defensively. Don’t signing these guys also cost us our next highest draft pick? That’s why I’d prefer just sticking with Grandy and live with the Ks and low BA but I’d live with Ellsbury’s speed, great leadoff hitting, and defense, Choo’s monster OBP, or the solid switching hitting Beltran for the right deal. We can leave the dh spot open so guys can rest. We may have to punt 3b if Arod is suspended. Maybe we can sign Reynolds or Chavez cheap. Don’t want Nunie starting. We can find pen help as we go along incase something pops up but that’s not a priority right now. A couple positions will still need to be upgraded by the end of the offseason.

    I like the McCann deal and think he’s a great fit but I would have been ok with a Cervelli/Romine combo if we improved elsewhere and just waited for Murphy or Sanchez to develop. As long as Stewart doesn’t get a significant amount of playing time at all I’m happy. Martin probably would have been a better value and would have also helped us in 2013 but McCann is a better fit for our park and is the better hitter so he takes away one of the black holes in the lineup by replacing Stewart.

    But the Arod hearing, Cano’s free agency, and the 189 plan are really throwing a wrench into this offseason. If the Arod case gets resolved quickly and Cano signs soon, things will become much easier and we’ll start to get a clearer picture of the 2014 team.

  • lightSABR

    This offseason sure beats the crap out of last offseason, eh? Sounds like declining attendance might just have lit a fire under Hal, suggested to him that you need to spend money to make it.

    • qwerty

      Declining attendance has been going on for years. That’s what happens when you price out the fans.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        Can’t disagree with that.

      • Jimmy

        Well said.

  • MC

    Omar Infante 3 years $36mm
    Cano 8 years and $200mm

    Hmm. Hmmm. HMMMM…

    If I were the Yanks I’d save the cash now and player for Harper, Stanton, Trout, and the many other players coming to market in the next 2-3 years.

    • Dalek Jeter

      Cano all day everyday. Even at 8 years. Just because we WANT those guys to hit free agency doesn’t mean they’re going to. If I was the Nationals, Marlins, or Angels I’d be already trying to convince those guys to sign extensions.

      • Bob Buttons

        Bryce Harper comes across as a guy who is all about the money. Scott Boras, yaddi yaddi yadda, under armor/Nike incident… Boras signed extensions before but I really doubt he’d do so with a guy like Harper, young kid who’s ready to get 100 mil or more.

        Other than that I agree. Either the Marlins or his new team (no way Marlins let him walk) will extend Stanton for a long time and I can see LA being the same with Trout. Plus, even if we offer the most money they don’t necessarily take it, like Maddux and company. (Not Lee. He took more AAV. I don’t count that as taking less money.)

    • Wicomico Pinstripes

      Who said we can’t have Cano along with one of Harper/Trout/Stanton? There’s a lot of money coming off the books in a few years. Also there’s no way to tell if those guys will still be available/ productive when the time comes.

      • MC

        We’ll see. I guess the point I was really trying to make is that there will be better options, at least in my opinion, in the next 2-3 years. I agree with most people that yes, we SHOULD resign Cano if the terms are right, but btw his attitude or interest in hanging around Jay Z (fame) and the contract demands, I’m souring on the guy a lot. It’s a combination of things. He’s never really been much of a hustler and that worries me, since his head is in the clouds right now. I don’t know really. I wonder if the Yanks could amend their offer. I rather they offer 6 years at $140mm with a 7th year option. Frankly, I’ve long wondered about some of these players and their self center mindset (see AROD) and that they want these 8,9,10 year deals when there is mounting evidence that these deals always backfire for a team, putting the team collectively risky positions and therefore, hampering the teams ability to possibly remain competitive (not being able to sign other players). I don’t know, but seems to me all Cano cares about is getting paid and I don’t like that at all. I like how Pedroia handled it, personally.

        • Wicomico Pinstripes

          It’s nice to have your golden boys( Jeter, Mo, etc.). The guys who can do no wrong off the field. But for me what it comes down to is on-field performance. If Cano’s producing I don’t really care about that other stuff.

          By the way, he’s never done anything that really irritated me. The man is trying to get paid. Simlple as that.

        • Nick Social

          Cano is a good dude.

          JayZ is a good dude.

          Let’s all just settle down.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            Cano went from a player that fans rarely criticized to a player they overly critique no matter how small it is. I’ve heard fans even pick apart or down play his durability. Fans overreact in situation like this and show their true colors. How many times in Sep I read on boards offer Cano a contract now and tell him he has a week to accept if he doesn’t pull the offer.

            WTFFFFFFFFFFFFF

          • Hornets686

            Jay Z is a horrible person and a punk!

    • qwerty

      Stanton will never, ever make it to free agency. There’s a chance Trout might, because the Angels still have not attempted to lock him up with extension, and with the possibility of them contending within the next 4 years it’s possible they’ll keep him until he’s a free agent.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      I’d take the field over any of those guys making free agency. Take care of your own guy now.

  • Tom

    What about Infante?

  • Hornets686

    Cano needs to be a Yankee for life! Get him, Chavez and Choo as well as Tanaka and Garza and a RP and call it an off-season…

  • iYankees

    The Yankees always talk tough and then blow it in the end. Whenever they have leverage, they end up finding a way to dilute it. I’m being negative, obviously. Looking forward to seeing how the Cano talks pan out. In the meanwhile, check out this Cafardo article and gag on the Cano vs Pedroia stuff.

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/spo.....story.html

    • qwerty

      The yankees will never give in to Cano’s demands for 300 million. The yankees will lowball him and get him to accept 275. Hank will take charge of negotiations.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        You cannot possibly believe a word of that.

      • Captain Turbo

        Hank would negotiate him up to 330 million for 11 years.

        • qwerty

          Cano can take it or leave it.

  • lou curcio

    I believe they have offers for infante to play third, beltran, kuroda, balfour, and colon. I know it crazy but think of who performed better like infante with average and beltran. Colon and kuroda would be one year deals. Plus waiting on tanaka.

  • TJF

    I like Cano but I don’t think he’s worth a long contract or big money. I’m thinking let him walk and fill his spot and other holes on the team with lower priced alternatives. 7 years at 20 a year take it or leave it, and I still think that’s too long and too much.

  • JGYank

    Just can’t see Drew signing here. No guarantee of playing time at all. Unless we outbid everyone else and he just cares about the $. If we sign Cano, I like the top of our order, so maybe we can afford to punt one or both of 3b and a corner outfielder spot. I’d take my chances with Jeter staying healthy since there is a chance he does and produces while there is almost no chance we get solid production from a Wells/Ichiro platoon so I’d focus on the other positions.

    • JGYank

      Also glad to see the Yanks looking at a several outfielders and starters especially Kuroda. I think it would be a good move to keep him on a 1 year deal otherwise we might have to sign worse starters on multiyear deals. I wonder if they are talking with Grandy. It seems like they are going to let him walk and gain a pick.

    • BamBamMusings

      I dont see the Drew appeal. North of 4 years 15 mil per? That just doesnt make sense. Might as well bring Reynolds or Chaves back and roll the dice with Nunez/Ryan at SS to back up Jeter.

      • JGYank

        Agree. I think Ryan and Reynolds/Chavez should be enough. No point in giving a big contract to a guy who might not even get much playing time. Especially when we have plenty of other holes to fill. If there is a chance we get production from Jeter/Arod I’ll take that risk and improve other spots on the roster.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    So mid-rotation starters OTHER than Garza and Jimenez. HMMMM. Some interesting options there. Some potential landmines to avoid.

    • Kvothe

      Sign AJ Burnett! ;)

      • Robinson Tilapia

        They actually considered a Pavano reunion once. I think it’s safe to say they won’t consider an AJ reunion.

        • BigLoving

          Don’t forget about last year when Cash said he was contemplating bringing back Javier Vazquez for a 3rd tour……

  • Captain Turbo

    Cano’s starting to look like a walk-away situation for the Yanks. If he won’t sign for something in the 7/160 neighborhood, they need to quickly move on and find another 2B. Hate to see him go but that’s what they have to do.

  • FLYER7

    Mark Ellis or Omar Infante at 2B and sign Beltran, a starter and another IF with money targeted for Cano

  • Chas131

    I really think Granderson is a better fit then Ells. Ells will go 7+ years and be paid like a cf. Granderson will get 3-4 years and be paid like a corner. If you can get choo for 4 years he would be perfect but he probably gets 5-6. Bring back grandy and focus on 3b and pitching. Beltran wants 3 years, that’s nuts.

    • CashmanNinja

      Actually, I believe Beltran wants 4 years. 3 years I’d do. 2 years is the best since he’s older, but if it takes 3 years to get him then so be it. But 4 years? Eh. That’s risky and we already will need the DH slot in a few years. I like Choo a lot, he’s an OBP monster, but I just don’t think he’s *that* good — enough to warrant anything close to $100 mil. To me he’s like a Nick Swisher type with a little less power, hits for average, steals some more bases, and plays a little better defense. Is that *really* worth like $30-50 mil more than Swisher got? Eh… I view him as a $70-80 mil player, not a $100 mil guy which Boras is going to market him as.

      And wtf is with the love for Ellsbury. He has 1 great year and then the rest are just meh. He’s got nice speed, but he’s basically Brett Gardner with a little more power. That’s really it. I’d rather re-sign Granderson for 3 years than go after Ellsbury or give Choo $100 mil.

      • Wicomico Pinstripes

        “To me he’s like a Nick Swisher with a little less power, hits for average, steals some more bases, and plays a little better defense.”

        So you’re saying he’s a better player but not worth $30m more? Swish got 4/56. Choo is expected to get somewhere in the range of 5/90. Comparing 2013 WAR Swish was 2.9 while Choo was at 5.2. By my calculations Choo at that contract is a worthwhile investment. As long as you’re saying the contract Swish received was fair.

        • fin

          Wcomico, so you want choo? Or making an argument? I personaly don’t buy into is war at all. I don’t want him.

          • Wicomico Pinstripes

            Simply making an argument. I would prefer Beltran given the constraints on current payroll.

            • fin

              Say, there are no payroll, constrainsts? You really want Beltran, Choo, Granderson? Or put money into pitching, and fill out the roster next year?

              • fin

                I don’t know the answer my self, just looking for opinions… I have lots of thought as shit happens, but its hard to look into the future. I didn’t want Swish or Martin signed. Seems the Yanks, looked ahead and bit the bullet for a year.

                While, Martin may be a better value, hes not a better player than Mcann, no matter what war says. Martine was horrendous for his last year with the Yankees, batting under .180 for most of the year. I didn’t want him at 17m for 2yrs. Nor did anyone else but the pirates, they will get the real russel this year.

                I’m not in the habbit of defending the Yankees, as I thought they were without a plan, but they got McCann, on a fair contract. Can only hope it continues.

              • Wicomico Pinstripes

                If there was no budget I would sign Choo and Beltran. I would also sign Drew having Jeter only start against LHP being lifted for Ryan after the 6th inning. There’s just one problem with all that… There’s a budget.

                In all actuality I’m hoping the FO can sign Beltran to a two year deal, add Kuroda, Tanaka, and Feldman. Feldman with the Rodriguez suspension money. They’ll also need a 3B( Reynolds) and a reliever or two. Possibly three. This scenario is difficult but certainly possible.

                • Wicomico Pinstripes

                  Also, in this scenario Cano is obviously being brought back.

                  Another thought, if Kuroda retires/ signs elsewhere/ goes back to Japan Garza is my second option with Feldman behind him signing only if Rodriguez is suspended. If the Yankees don’t land Tanaka I have no idea what they’re plan might be.

  • Chris

    Looks like Haren is going to the Dodgers. I wonder if they still will be in on Tanaka. I agree with some opinions on Drew, I really don’t see the appeal. I think he is an average hitter and plays great D. but 4 years at over 50 million? That is crazy talk there. And for those suggesting to get him to play SS, 2nd and 3rd, he spurned the Yankees last year for less money as he only wanted to play SS. So probably not happening. Grab Reynolds on the cheap and see if we can get Chavy to fill in for A-Rod while he is out.

    I see no need for someone like Ellsbury at the reported 120 million or so. I also don’t know what the love affair some have with Beltran. This board has been complaining about the Yankees signing older players and if he is looking for 15 million a year for 3 or 4 years, forget it.

    If Cano takes 7 years 160-170 I can live with that. Any more than that then let him go. If they are serious about the 189, then they really can’t do much after that if he signs. I really want to see what Tanaka can do and it would be awesome to see Kuroda mentor him for a year. SP’s: CC, Kuroda, Tanaka, Nova, then take your pick. Not a bad rotation.

    I also find it funny how up in arms everyone has been about the Yankees lack of activity, and then they fire the first major bullet. If they can manage Tanaka, they will have gotten the best hitter ad pitcher available through free agency. But of course, the writers are already writing off the last 2 years of the McCann deal. I like it and hopefully Murphy or Sanchez, can step it up in the next few years and seamlessly slide into the catcher position.

    • fin

      If Ellsbury gets more than McCann, I have no idea what the fuck is going in the world of baseball. Outside of 1 yr, Ells has been Gardner, injuries and all.

      • Paco Dooley

        Agreed – seems like people place way too much emphasis on the one good season and ignore the longer track record.

  • fin

    OPS+ second best in his career, going into his 31yr season. Ill pass, bad risk.

  • Paco Dooley

    On the topic of the Hot Stove, I am also amazed that PED users are not seeing a huge penalty in value. People either think that they will find a way to continue to use, or that the PEDs are not responsible for their success.