2013 Winter Meetings Day Four Open Thread

Thursday Night Open Thread
Mailbag: Franklin, Soriano, Anna, Lineups, Rule 5
(Thearon W. Henderson/Getty)
(Thearon W. Henderson/Getty)

The final day of the lamest Winter Meetings I can remember is upon us. The Rule 5 Draft starts the day — J.J. Cooper has a preview, including notes on several Yankees farmhands who figure to be selected — but the Yankees do not have an open 40-man roster, so they won’t be able to make a pick. Clubs and their executives tend to leave around midday Thursday, so don’t expect there to be many rumors or transactions in the afternoon. For shame.

Here are Monday’s, Tuesday’s, and Wednesday’s rumors. Late last night we learned the Yankees rejected a Brett Gardner-for-Brandon Phillips trade offer from the Reds, who are looking to unload their second baseman and the $50M left on his contract. We’re going to keep track of Thursday’s worthwhile rumors right here. All times are ET.

  • 9:26pm: The Yankees were involved in trade talks for Brett Anderson before he was dealt to the Rockies. [Susan Slusser]
  • 5:31pm: While talking to Johan Santana’s agent, Brian Cashman showed some interest in hard-throwing but not-always-strike-throwing reliever Henry Rodriguez. [David Waldstein]
  • 5:28pm: The Yankees made their offer to Infante after Robinson Cano agreed to sign with the Mariners and before the Winter Meetings, which basically means last weekend. [Olney]
  • 2:49pm: Apparently there was a three way trade being discussed involving Gardner, Justin Masterson, and Didi Gregorius. Gardner would have wound up with the Indians, Masterson with the Diamondbacks, and Gregorius with the Yankees. Huh. [Sweeny Murti]
  • 1:10pm: Mark Ellis is “on the radar” as an Infante alternative for the Yankees. I looked at him as a possible target yesterday. [Ken Rosenthal]
  • 12:20pm: The team’s offer to Infante is in the three-year, $24M range. He’s seeking four years and $40M. [Sherman]
  • 12:09pm: The Yankees have offered Omar Infante a three-year contract. He is still holding out for a fourth year. The Royals are in the mix as well. [Jon Heyman]
  • 9:00am: Future talks about Gardner and Phillips could be expanded to include other players, but the Yankees have essentially told teams they will only trade Gardner for a starting pitcher. They listened on Phillips out of due diligence. [C. Trent Rosecrans & Joel Sherman]
  • Masahiro Tanaka remains the team’s top pitching priority. The new posting system is expected to be ratified soon but it’ll probably be another week or so before we find out whether Tanaka will actually be posted. Maybe longer. [George King]
  • The Yankees are one of Joaquin Benoit’s likeliest destinations along with the Indians, Padres, Mariners, and Cubs. He’s seeking $7-10M annually across multiple years. Matt looked at Benoit as a free agent target earlier this week. [Jeff Passan & Buster Olney]
  • While talking to reporters yesterday, Brian Cashman said the pool of available of second baseman is “deeper” than it is at third. He also said he has not spoken to a bullpen candidate who demanded the closer’s job. [Chad Jennings]

Reminder: Your trade proposal sucks.

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Thursday Night Open Thread
Mailbag: Franklin, Soriano, Anna, Lineups, Rule 5
  • Joe R

    Tommy Kahnle just drafted by the Rockies in the Rule 5 draft with the 5th pick.

    • Preston

      I’d bet that he comes back, 6.8 BB/9 at AA last year doesn’t scream ready to stick at MLB for a full year, especially at Coors.

  • DERP

    Burawa not getting picked is nice

  • TWTR

    Jesus! Montero is available; Smoak too. I like the odds that at least one reaches his potential once they escape that park.

    • I’m a looser and a trader baby so why don’t you kill me?

      For realz?

      • TWTR

        I have been wrong before, but yeah, I would take the over.

      • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

        Man…I wish NY had cut Wells and picked up either one of those just cause…

  • DERP

    Ravel Santana went first overall in the AAA portion of the draft.

    • Rick

      He was Rule 5 eligible?

  • DERP

    Mikey O’Brien gone as well

    • The Great Gonzo

      DAMMIT. I was looking forward to him winning the JoVa award in 2016. Here’s to hoping he gets sent back or something.

  • DERP

    Felipe Gonzalez of the GCL team and Kelvin Castro of Charleston also gone.

  • Nick

    This is carnage! Five (FIVE) players gone. Will be a long shot if any of them last (apart from Ravel who I understand is gone for good now) but still – FIVE!

    • John C

      Kahnle only one of significance lost.

    • Rick

      I don’t understand why Ravel is gone though. Does he have to stick at AAA all year?

    • Jimmy

      Doesn’t make much sense for a farm system with no big-league ready talent, does it?

  • I’m a looser and a trader baby so why don’t you kill me?

    Fear of the Day (FotD)™: we lose someone in the Rule 5 draft who actually sticks in the bigs this year.

    • The Great Gonzo

      Kahnle is the only one who has to stick. And I am doubting it. I mean, maybe… but I doubt it.

  • KennyH123

    5 guys lost in the Rule 5.. gotta be some kind of record.

    • I’m a looser and a trader baby so why don’t you kill me?

      But but but we have a terrible farm with no prospects!!!

      • TWTR

        I think the issue is development not drafting.

  • John C

    Suprised Whitley didn’t get picked. Fred Lewis either. Good chance we get Kahnle back at some point

    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

      Good chance will get the majority of them back at some point.

      • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

        Ignore me.

  • nycsportzfan

    7-10mill per yr for Benoit! Thats crazy! At any point middle relievers with his kinda stuff(nothing spectacular) can have yrs that are terrible outta the blue. There has got to be better bargains then that out there.

    • Bavarian Yankee

      ???

      you know he’s been closing for the Tigers last year and has been one of the very best set-up men around the majors for years? His demands aren’t crazy at all and (I guess) nobody ever said he’s going to be a bargain. Every decent middle reliever gets 5+ million a year these days.

      • nycsportzfan

        SO what. Hes been in the league since 2001 and just started saving games last yr and is 35yrs old. He has nothing special and is anything but worth 7-10million per. Thats just silly. Hes not even a established closer.

    • Preston

      I mean they’re the ones writing the checks, as long as they don’t cheap out later in the off-season you could do worse than getting Benoit as your setup man.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      New rule: No one advocating for Brandon Phillips can complain about any other contract left available out there.

      #halfkidding

      • nycsportzfan

        Ya, but at least phillips plays the main positon of need left on our roster and is Right handed with some pop. He also just won a GG at the positon last yr. But i didn’t realize he had a no trade clause and would probably want more money. I woulden’t advocate for it if that is true. Otherwise, i like the idea. We got speed still in Ellsbury , ichiro, and Sori. I would rather have a positon like 2nd base filled with a consistent right handed hitter, who has pop.

  • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

    If a Rule 5 player comes back, do we have to give the money back? That’s kind of a crap deal…

    • Bob Buttons

      We get 50k and get to buy them back for 25k, if they go through waivers unclaimed.

      The waiver claim team would have to offer us back to 25k if they don’t keep him in the majors either.

  • The Great Gonzo

    So the door is NOT closed on a Bailey for Gardy swap, right? That just makes too much goddam sense.

    I am going to go on a limb and say that ifr I was in the Yankees shoes, I would eat that entire Phillips contract if we got Bailey for Gardner and not much more (like, Warren?). He could be a game-changer for the Yankees.

    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

      I wish I would stop thinking about Andrew Bailey every time anyone says Gardner for Bailey.

      • Bavarian Yankee

        lol. Same here :D

        • camilo

          Is that the good a’s reliever?

          • Bob Buttons

            Formerly good formerly A’s closer.

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              Most recently the always injured Boston reliever.

  • MartinRanger

    What a bore of a Winter Meetings though: there was the Trumbo trade, but that’s pretty much the only thing of any significance that happened. Not at all what you would expect.

  • TWTR

    As Cashman has said, he wants a player they can keep for multiple years for Gardner, and that makes sense.

  • Josh S.

    File this under “your trade proposal sucks”:

    Three-way deal

    NYY gets Cliff Lee or Cole Hamels
    Sea gets Brett Gardner
    Phillies get Jesus Montero and Michael Pineda

    • RetroRob

      Phillies trade away a great pitcher and get nothing of note back. Two failed prospects. Yet they are giving up the most.

    • Mr. Roth

      Pass whatever it is that you’re smoking my way.

    • Steve

      The Yankees get one of the 5 best lefties in baseball for their 4th outfielder with one year left on his contract and a pitcher who hasn’t thrown a pitch in the majors in 2 years. Seems fair.

    • UncleArgyle

      I think you meant Cliff Lee AND Cole Hamels.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      How quick do we hit “force trade?”

    • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

      I don’t mean to be a dick, but that would be filed under “your trade proposal sucks so hard that it makes Ruben Amaro’s other transactions look like Brock-for-Broglio.”

  • Mike

    Pineda and Montero have tremendous promise. Good trade for them.

    • TWTR

      That promise has faded. As of now, they are long shots.

  • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

    “I’m berry happy that ownershit showed me love.”

    Freudian slip?

  • UncleArgyle

    Gardner for Gregorius? I actually like that idea. Jeter to DH or 3rd?

    • Mr. Roth

      Do you think a move from SS to 2B, or a move from SS to 3B would be easier for Jeter (not that I actually think it would happen)?

      Personally I think he’d do better at 2B. He has a hard enough time making the throws to 1B from SS. I don’t think he’d do any better having to make the throw from 3B.

      • UncleArgyle

        I’m thinking third would be easier. It’s not Jeters arm strength that’s diminished, it’s his lateral quickness. That’s much easier to hide at 3rd.

        • RkyMtnYank

          I agree completely, plus Jeter has always and probably still should charge the ball very well too.

          • 461deep

            Would love to see Jesus Montero back with the Yankees but do not see it happening. He had a decent first year in Seattle but poor second year. Still very young so should get another chance and may be a good one year trial fit in Toronto or Baltimore as a back-up catcher and DH against lefties. Be great if he could lean how to play first base. Cannot replace Cano but if age does not hurt them too much the lineup looks good for next year with newcomers.

  • RetroRob

    While I’d like to have Didi Gregorius on the team since he could play second then shift over to SS when Jeter heads out, fact is it will weaken the Yankees in 2014. Gregorius will deliver less value that Gardner in 2014, and the Yankees are trying to increase their wins.

    Perhaps those were the key players discussed, but other ones would have been involved.

    • TWTR

      You’re right, Gardner is a over a 3 WAR player. He contributes a lot to this team and he would be missed if they don’t get a comparably valuable replacement.

    • Preston

      It’s not just the players involved though, yes Gregorius is probably only around a 2 win player, maybe less playing at 2b instead of SS, and Gardner is probably a 3 or better. But you also free up Gardner’s salary, probably going to be around 4 million and the salary we would have spent on a 2b, weather that’s 8-10 million for Infante or 12.5 million to Phillips, or somebody else. Gregorius and 12-16 million for other things is probably more valuable to the 2014 club than Gardner, and then obviously 4 more cost controlled years of Gregorius on top of that. I don’t advocate for trading Gardner, I don’t like the idea of Beltran and Soriano both being counted on for 150 games in the OF (and really don’t like the idea of Ichiro playing a significant role) but if they’re going to trade him, this is the type of deal that they should do.

  • Mykey

    I just suddenly got SHOCKED that Cano signed with the Mariners. I mean, obviously I knew about it, but I guess I didn’t really internalize it until just now. This is so weird.

    • camilo

      fahck, i know, right; it’s like: pause The Mariners.. really?

  • lightSABR

    Joba to Tigers. Farewell, future ace – I mean, future heir to Rivera – I mean, well… Whatever I mean, farewell. May you have a long and outstanding career against every team but us.

  • Ryan

    Cano:
    “I don’t think about the money”

    “I didn’t feel any respect… I was hoping they would come up with a better offer. My goal was to stay there.”

    • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

      So by his rationale, respect = money and respect =/= money.

      • mustang

        THIS!!!

        Well said and in this case the term “rationale” should be used loosely.

        • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

          Yea, that was kind of the point.

  • gbyanks

    if the royals sign infante does anyone think they would make Bonifacio available? They need a more legit backup catcher, and a utility man maybe cervelli and nunez. id throw in one of the young pitchers(phelps, warren, nuno) to sweeten the deal. at that point it would be an overpay but id like bonifaio a lot more then Ellis at second or Young or Reynolds at third

    • RkyMtnYank

      I think I’d rather sweeten the Infante deal to 3/30 if it’s doable rather than all the other options. Think he would take that over 4/40 from the Royals to be a Yankee?

      • Mr. Roth

        I doubt he’d take 1 less year for the same AAV just to play in New York.

  • http://www.favrestnyc.com Favrest

    Here’s my trade proposal:

    Gardner and Teixeira for Howard, Papelbon and Lee. Philly eats half of Howard’s contract and a portion of Lee’s.

    • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

      Your trade proposal sucks.

    • RkyMtnYank

      Papelbon will never and should never be a Yankee!

      • TWTR

        I don’t even like having to read his name.

    • jjyank

      Wow. And Tex waives his NTC to go to Philly…why, exactly? And why not just keep Howard if they’re going to pay half his salary and take on all of Tex’s? Let’s just assume that Howard and Tex are a wash. Gardner for one year for some salary relief and the loss of their closer and an elite pitcher? Just, wow.

      This trade proposal really does suck.

  • dennyneagleshooker

    terrible. take a lap.

    I would be interested in seeing if Colorado would part with Jhoulys Chacin or Jorge De La Rosa. Not sure if they would be interested in dumping pitching, but maybe a package of Gardner & Phelps/JR Murphy would get them to talking. Same goes with Lubke of San Diego. Haven’t heard anything on these guys though, so most likely not even available.

  • http://None Favrest

    I admit that I have never liked Papelbon, the guy. He’s been less than stellar in Philly, but truth be told, I didn’t like Wade Boggs or Roger Clemens either, and they made fine Yankees. You gotta give to get. Yanks never want to make the big trade. With my proposal, of course, it is a fantasy, the Yankees would not absorb more than half of Howard, Lee and Papelbon’s contract.

    I think Lee is the type of pitcher who can pitch well late into his career. His control is amazing. Both Teix and Howard have been banged up, but w Teix’s wrist injury, we don’t know when we’ll get him back, if ever. Howard is no dream either. As far as Papelbon and Gardner go, I think Gardner’s speed will drop soon, and who knows, maybe Papelbon will bounce back?

    No one in their right would have predicted that Jon Lester and John Lackey would lead the Sox to a WS, but a new manager meant a new invironment and it changed everything.

    Bottom line, no one is going to hand us an all star pitcher for nothing, so Cash got to be creative – something he’s not very good at.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      We don’t need to go nuts in order to land an aging all-star pitcher. We need someone who can comfortably slot in the middle of the rotation with some flashes of being more than that.

      We also need a separate pot of gold tucked away for Tanaka.

      No thanks on Howard. No thanks on Pap Smear.

      • http://None Favrest

        I agree w you in that I don’t want Howard or Papelbon. But tell me this, with CC throwing 93, Kuroda’s arm falling off by August and a half a season worth of a great Ivan Nova, who will carry this staff? We have a bunch of average guys already, but unless we somehow see dramatic improvement in CC, we have no ace.

        Cashman, and Yankee management have held into their prospects so long that now, guys like Hughes and Joba have proved to be completely worthless. David Adams was the player who Cashman wouldn’t give up for Cliff Lee. WTF, Cash, you just cut that guy.

        If my choice is sign Matt Garza for $125 million or Ervin Santana for 80, I’d rather roll the dice on a team shake up. I don’t want to lose Gardner, and I love Teix’s glove, but what will land us a legit MLB pitcher? We offered Gardner for Bailey. They said no. I’m impressed w Cashman’s restraint in rejecting the Phillips offer, but that is the kind of deal we’re being offered. We eat salary, and we have to absorb yet another crippling salary.

        We’re now faced w a situation that requires Cashman to be creative. Outside of a salary dump, when was the last time he added a REAL star?

        • BFDeal

          When are you guys going to give up the myth that Cashman wouldn’t give up Adams in the Cliff Lee trade? It’s getting ridiculous. Adams was injured and the M’s said no. http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....-1.1345516

          • jjyank

            +1

            It’s annoying to hear seemingly every day.

        • Get Phelps Up

          “Outside of a salary dump, when was the last time he added a REAL star?”

          Ellsbury, Beltran and McCann?

          • jjyank

            Yeah, and nevermind CC, Tex, and AJ in 2009. And Swisher, who was far closer to being a star than most Yankee fans give him credit for.

            It was 5 years ago. But let’s not act like such actions are foreign to this FO.

        • Jorge Steinbrenner

          Please just stop. Everything. Just stop.

        • Jorge Steinbrenner

          In all seriousness, though:

          1. I’m concerned about the rotation as well. If that’s your expectation before the season even starts, though, I don’t know what to say. Not everything will go straight off a cliff.

          2. Speaking of Cliffs, get over it already.

          3. There are zero reports anywhere as to either Garza or Santana getting anywhere near those numbers. Even the teams linked to Garza are supposedly balking at four years.

          4. jjyank said the obvious, but let’s pretend you meant pitchers. If young pitchers haven’t panned out, what do you want the organization to do, hand out mega contracts to potential aces every two seasons? That’ll go over well on here. It’s going to hurt somewhere when things don’t all go as planned.

  • Wayne

    What are realistically our chances of getting Didi Gregorious from diamondbacks? Who would we have to give up besides Gardner?

    • jjyank

      Hopefully just Gardner, if that? Consider me not in the pro-Didi camp. Good defender, below average bat? Yeah he’s young, but I’d much rather try to get pitching out of Gardner. And good pitching. I’d much rather keep Gardner unless I’m blown away.

  • Wayne

    Is getting hit in the head a concern though?

  • Wayne

    Does Jose Ramirez either get a shot as starter in the majors this year or put in the bullpen due to our lack of depth or forced to do both and possibly ala joba get hurt? what could we get for him realistically, if we don’t know what to do with the guy?

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      Ramirez goes to AAA unless he has the most amazing spring in the history of springs.

  • Dr. Grenaldine

    MLBTR has the Yankees and Tigers toying with the idea of a Brett Gardner for Austin Jackson swap. First of all, why? And secondly, why is Austin Jackson set to get more in arbitration than Brett Gardner at this point?

    • mitch

      It’s definitely a weird trade, but I think i’d do it. Two years of Jackson is better than one year of Gardner. One year of Jackson might even be better than one year of Gardner.

      • TWTR

        If they can’t trade Gardner for a young starter with upside, I would do it too.

      • Kosmo

        The only thing I can come up with is a swap of a righty for a lefty. Right now Avila and Dirks are the only LHH in the lineup which isn´t saying much. The Tigers traded Fielder a LHH. The Yanks are a LHH oriented right now.
        Unless there are more players involved it remains something of a head scratcher.
        I´d take Jackson on 2 years. More power, great OF.

  • TWTR

    Logan is reportedly going to the Rockies. He had his highs and lows here but was never a reliable LOOGY. They can do better and likely will as building bullpen depth has been their biggest strength since Girardi replaced Torre.

    • The Great Gonzo

      He was a streaky player. He went on runs where he could not get out of an AB without plunking a LHB, and went on runs where he could handle batters on both sides of the plate. Another enigma coming out of the pen…

      I like the deal overall for Colorado (3/$12m is great value when he’s on), but for the Yankees I think there are better values out there for a strict LOOGY. Hell, one could argue we have better LOOGYs (strict LOOGYs) on the roster already.

      • Bavarian Yankee

        actually it’s 3/16.5.

    • mitch

      Logan was a step up from a LOOGY because he wasn’t awful against righties. 3/15 is definitely a lot though. I’m fine with Cabral, et al for that role.