Dec
04

Expect Gardner in the 2014 outfield

By

For years we’ve seen comparisons drawn between new Yankee Jacoby Ellsbury and entrenched Yankee Brett Gardner. Naturally, people speculated that the Yankees might trade the latter, given their $153 million commitment to the former. “Absolutely not,” according to an ESPN NY source. The source further speculated that both will bat atop the order, which might mean an ego hit for Derek Jeter (though Jeter could presumably hit second against lefties). It’s certainly an interesting approach, both atop of the order and in the outfield. Much of the success, I imagine, rests on the power that Mark Teixeira, Brian McCann, Alfonso Soriano, and hopefully Robinson Cano, generate behind these guys.

Categories : Asides
  • Baked McBride

    Ellsbury has more rings than any yankee except Jeter?

    • RetroRob

      Ellsbury has two rings, so it’s possible now that Rivera and Pettitte have retired. Haven’t gone through the roster to see if there are other players who have won on other teams.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      He does great impressions.

  • TWTR

    OTOH, one way to gain leverage in a potential trade is to claim that you won’t trade a player.

    • MartinRanger

      I really hope this is the case. And with Cashman’s history it very well might be. They certainly did not admit to shopping Montero before the Pineda deal.

      • qwerty

        Actually the complete opposite has been true. Montero was just the exception.

  • MartinRanger

    I’m really not sure about this. With Ellsbury Gardner becomes expendable and easily the Yankees’ best trade chip. They could definitely get a good, youngish starter with a package of Gardner and Murphy, as opposed to one year of Gardner and an uncertain future for Murphy.

    • Chris H

      Depends on what you mean by “good”, I don’t think an about to be free agent center fielder and backup catcher net much more back end guy a team just doesn’t want/need.

  • Baked McBride

    Did Pettitte getting run out of town to Houston after the ’03 season create a massive butterfly effect that has hurt the team ever since?

    • Garyward

      run out of town?

      • tmoney

        don’t feed the fish

  • hogsmog

    So, where does Gardner play? I feel like Ellsbury gets center; he’s the big name here and I’m sure he signed this deal expecting to keep his position. Gardner’s speed would be wasted in Yankee Stadium right, and I don’t think he has the arm for it, but at the same time I’m not comfortable putting Soriano out there.

    • *

      For the 957th time, ICHIRO IS PLAYING RIGHT FIELD. JESUS FREAKING CHRIST PEOPLE.

      • hogsmog

        Do you actually know that? I mean, it could be true, but Soriano might be their best right-handed hitter next year, and I would assume they want to work him into the lineup as often as possible. With Jeter and McCann as rotating DH probables, not to mention whoever else needs rest, I’d be surprised if he didn’t make a significant number of starts.

        • *

          Good grief, man..

          McCann is not a “rotating DH” he might DH one day a week. Jeter or Tex on one other and Soriano, for the most part, is the primary DH. Soriano in RF over Ichiro is just absurd and tremendous defensive downgrade.

          • hogsmog

            I don’t know why you have to be so damn aggressive. It’s December and you’re acting like I’m a moron because the fake bullshit I made up isn’t the same as the fake bullshit you made up.

            Sure it’s a massive defensive downgrade; that’s why I asked the fucking question in the first place. Ichiro is a massive offensive downgrade.

            Looks like we have a tradeoff, and I want to have a discussion about said tradeoff on a message board! WHAT AN IDIOT I MUST BE.

          • Fin

            Eh, I have no problem with Soriano and his MLB quality bat playing RF. I cant see Ichiro getting regular playing time, barring injury. I think Ichiro will be a 4th outfielder, late inning defensive replacement.

            • *

              I give up. Let’s take a world wide super star who is someone who actually sells jerseys and tickets plays a mean defense and put him on the bench — just because he might hit .220. We don’t need someone to hit .330 at every position and people are entirely discounting the business appeal of Ichiro in New York.

              • Need Pitching & Hitting

                Winning has a big business appeal in NY.
                Starting a bench player who barely hits anymore doesn’t.

                • *

                  Fine. We’ll do it the way everyone wants. We’ll put a DH in RF and put the right fielder on the bench.

                  Fixed. Problem solved and let’s move on to the next topic of why we can’t have Verlander or whatever else people want.

                  • hogsmog

                    Did you know:

                    It is possible to express an opinion different from someone else’s opinion without being a total asshole about it?

                  • LK

                    You’re clearly too entrenched in your position to change now, but I figured I’d point out that Soriano’s defense is actually just fine. Ichiro’s better, sure, but when you don’t walk, don’t hit for power, and don’t hit for average anymore, teams might be willing to sacrifice a little D to keep your noodle out of the lineup.

                    • Kevin G.

                      Especially when you have two gold-glove caliber outfielders next to him

                    • http://www.twitter.com/thewallbreakers Scully

                      Seriously. You could probably have Ellsbury play shaded to Right-Center like 85% of the time with the amount of ground he and Gardner could cover to help take away some of Soriano’s issues. The only unfortunate thing is that there isn’t an above-average arm in the outfield, so teams will be taking the extra base regularly unless Ichiro is out there… and i’m not advocating him being out there. He’s dunzo.

                  • Need Pitching & Hitting

                    No. Ideally they’ll put the starting caliber MLB player in the lineup and put the non-starting caliber MLB player off the bench.
                    They still need to add some starting caliber pieces to be able to do that though.

                    With the current roster, Ichiro may still be the starting RF (depending on how much SS Jeter can play).
                    Right now it’s a choice of:
                    1)good defense/no-hit SS at SS, OK OF in RF, and Jeter primarily at DH

                    OR

                    2)Bad defense/hopefully hit SS, good defense/no-hit in RF, and OK OF at DH

                    Given that defense at SS is much more important than RF defense, I’d take option 1.

                  • jsbrendog

                    ichiro is no longer an mlb caliber offensive player. when it comes to total package soriano>>>>>ichiro regardless of fielding.

              • Fin

                Lol, I give up when you think Ichiro’s only problem at the plate is his .220 average. Maybe the Yankees should go get Yogi Berra as their catcher no one bigger in NY than Berra.

              • I’m One

                Or maybe, they can use someone that has a history in NY and has recently returned, played acceptable defense and provided a large offensive spark when it was really needed and then use Ichiro where he fits best; 4th OF/late inning defensive replacement.

                • *

                  So the better option is to go out and sign who? Beltran at 37 for $50mm to cover a position where we already have a very capable player? People entirely fail to see the value of Ichiro and its something that has bothered me for a while now. The guy is the gold coin of marketing and the guy is highly durable and can still play a very good D, so what I ask, can the Yanks do to make everyone happier? We release him, well that’s a waste of $6.5mm. It’s not like we’ll trade him. I’m frustrated because people aren’t being logical about this and the best answer has been to put a defensively inferior player in Soriano in RF? When he easily slots in the DH 5 days a week.

                  • I’m One

                    I think it makes more sense to sacrifice some D in RF (the easiest of the 3 OF positions to play in YS III) and gain a lot of offense by useing Soriano, who may be nearly as popular in NY as Ichiro. Ichiro can come in to replace him late in close games or as a pinch runner. And Soriano will need a game off here and there. Ichiro may also be pressed into action should Ellsbury or Gardner get injured. Plenty of uses for him, I just don’t feel he’s the best starting RF currently on the Yankees roster.

                  • Need Pitching & Hitting

                    “I’m frustrated because people aren’t being logical about this and the best answer has been to put a defensively inferior player in Soriano in RF? When he easily slots in the DH 5 days a week.”

                    aka

                    I’m frustrated because people aren’t being logical about this and the best answer has been to put a defensively inferior player in Jeter at SS ? When he easily slots in the DH 5 days a week.

                    There’s a perfectly good reason to prefer Ichiro on the bench even with the current roster.
                    They can live with Ichiro as primary RF IF Jeter can play SS acceptably well, and they can add some offense at 2B and 3B.
                    Otherwise, he belongs on the bench.
                    Soriano should be at least average overall as a RF.
                    Ichiro clearly doesn’t do that.

                  • LK

                    If you think that 2014 Ichiro is a “very capable player”, we have nothing left to discuss. He’s marketable, yes; that has nothing to do with his capabilities as a player though. He’s durable, and he plays good defense. This makes him worthy of a roster spot. But he can’t hit anymore, at all, and this makes him unworthy of a starting position. It doesn’t mean he’s worthless, or wasn’t a great player, or that the sky will fall if he has to play RF everyday with a good enough lineup around him, but if starting him is Plan A the front office has erred.

                  • jsbrendog

                    http://www.baseball-reference......ic01.shtml

                    75 ops+
                    1.4 bWar in 150 games
                    1.1 fWar
                    17.8 uzr/150

                    soriano:
                    http://www.baseball-reference......al01.shtml

                    112 total ops+ (129 with yankees)
                    1.6 bwar with yankees in 58 games (2.4 total)
                    2.9 fwar (doesnt split between teams)
                    7.3 uzr/150

                    Where is the value for ichiro, again?

                    oh right, a bench platoon player and even then his splits aren’t very good against righties. so he is a late inning defensive replacement, bench sub base stealer, platoon player who plays vs lefties. give it up man. unless, i dunno, you don’t like facts and science.

                    • jim p

                      One flaw: for some reason Girardi hasn’t noticed that Ichiro has hit lefties somewhat better through his career, and 100 or so points better in 2013. I still can’t figure out why that has escaped him.

                  • Robinson Tilapia

                    D*h Inn*ngs *******

                    ******

                  • rly dude?

                    “The guy is the gold coin of marketing and the guy is highly durable and can still play a very good D, so what I ask, can the Yanks do to make everyone happier?”

                    What can they do to make everyone happier? IDK, maybe aim to have the good player playing instead of the marketable one?
                    Last I checked the goal is to win games, not sell jerseys.

                  • Dave M

                    Are you related to Ichiro or something? Or just pulling our legs?

              • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod

                Why would a fan give any sort of fuck (flying or otherwise) about the business appeal of a player?

                Sports fans in general are interested in performance and in their rooting interests competing in meaningful games in pursuit of a championship.

                If you’re that keen on analyzing why the business appeal of an inferior player should result in a superior player riding the bench, then perhaps you should take your opinions over to a Wall Street Journal message board.

                • CS Yankee

                  This, all this!

                  If everyone in America bought an Ichiro shirt and he batted .225 it would only equate to us Americans flying flags while our government buys $800 toilet seats…A patroitic, loyal devotion but with ill-logic that is full of waste.

                  I don’t give a crap if Ichiro is our 4th OFer or the Phillies 4th OF, but to expect him to start is just silly at best; batshit insane at worst.

              • Silvio

                Everything in this post is misguided, including the punctuation marks. You need a tranquilizer.

              • Spaceman Spiff

                Dude what are you talking about? Your points make absolutely no sense. Play Ichiro because he sells jerseys and plays a mean defense but hits .220? Stop smoking meth. We will not be playing 3 light light hitting left handed outfielders on a regular basis. 2 elite fielding outfielders will more than make up for what Soriano may lack in RF.

                “we dont need someone to hit .330 at every position” was the line that really got me to laugh. Of course we dont need it but why not try to?

                • LK

                  That line had me amused as well. Mostly because right now we don’t have a .330 hitter at any position and offense was the primary problem for the team in 2013. But I hear you get extra runs if you lead the league in jersey sales, so you can’t fault the guy’s logic.

                  • jsbrendog

                    haha yeah did anyone on the team last year even hit over 300? or close to 300? 330 at one position and id be aroused….

                    • I’m One

                      Cano (over .300). That’s it. No one in the OF, that’s for sure.

              • W.B. Mason Williams

                FINALLY!

                Someone else who understands my argument for Michael Jordan winning the MVP this season!

                Ichiro will on the Yankees.

                On the bench.

                On the Yankees’ bench.

                • jsbrendog

                  ietc

                  • Robinson Tilapia

                    +1

              • Chris H

                He doesn’t need to hit .220 his .262/.297/.342 slash line from last year is already so below average in RF that even Soriano is the overall more valuable player.

      • Fin

        Yea, some guy who is posting on the net has told u people for the 97th time that Ichiro is playing right field so it has to be a fact.

      • Mr. Roth

        y u mad bro?

    • *

      2014 outfield with be made up of: Gardner LF, Ellsbury C, Ichiro RF
      or Soriano/Almonte LF, Ellsbury C, Ichiro RF

      Let’s keep in mind Wells is in the fold too, which is fine.

      • hogsmog

        I guess this makes sense, but I’d be really surprised if Ichiro didn’t end up as a platoon partner with somebody by years end.

        • MartinRanger

          If it’s a platoon, it needs to be another lefty, because Ichiro is useless against righthanders and looks more than deceased against lefties.

      • Mr. Roth

        Yeah, well thats just like, your opinion, man.

  • Toki

    Lord Jeter could have a .280 OBP and his majesty will still be batting 1st or 2nd in the lineup.

  • *

    If that’s the case, then the Yanks must have some significant intel that Cano will sign or is likely to sign elsewhere. If they intend on keeping both Gardner and now Ellsbury, which I like, then it’s really hard for me to see Cano in their plans at this point. Let’s be serious and logical folks. There would be debate of Jeter hitting 3rd, but that’s extremely unlikely. What I could happen is Ellsbury, Jeter, Tex, Soriano, McCann, (new player – another righty), Ichiro, (new player – another righty) and Gardner batting 9th.

    There are few different directions this can go, but I’m putting Cano returning at less than 20% right now. Frankly, I love Cano and cost aside, I just don’t know if I would want him in an already lefty heavy line-up. Perhaps Tex will exclusively bat from the right side going forward? It wouldn’t be that far-fetch in order to reduce resistance on his wrist.

    I’m telling you, all it takes is one more move (someone with power, like Cashman likes, that bats right and can play 3rd). I’m thinking Cashman is working on 3rd right now.

    I could total see the Yanks going with Johnson and telling Nunez (I know, I know, people here will freak out), 2nd base is his job and for him to learn it, fast. I’m ok with that.

    As for pitching, there seems to be a surprising wealth of options and I’m not that concerned, frankly.

    • Toki

      Please tell what these “surprising wealth of options” are in the rotation. Aging CC, Inconsistant Nova, the AAAA All-Stars in Phelps, Huff, Warren. 40 year old Kuroda while there’s nothing on the farm?

      • *

        Man, you yo-yo’s are a hard group to please these last few weeks. Perhaps its all the selfies or something, but we are my fans, Geez.

        There are a lot of options on the market place and it seems several viable trade options.

        • Toki

          What are these surprising wealth of options, you should be able to rattle off a few names.

          • *

            Garza, Feldman, Jimenez, Kuroda, Tanaka, Santana (both Irvin and Yohan), Arroyo, Mahlom, Hammel, Roy Halliday, plus the several kids that weren’t tendered, like the Hanson kid in Arizona, plus several possibly trade options, such as Smarjazia, Anderson, and probably half a dozen other names we’re not even considering.

            The Yanks need just one to augment their rotation. Does it make them the best rotation in the league, no, not by far, but what else do you want?

            Get your head out of your ass. The Yanks are getting a Verlander or Hernandez, etc. So in terms of picking up a pitcher or two, outside of Tanaka, there are a wealth of middle of the pack options.

            • *

              “aren’t” getting a Verlander or Hernandez.

            • hogsmog

              These are ‘options’, but I wouldn’t particularly call them a ‘surprising wealth’.

              And I don’t know why you keep accusing everybody of wanting Verlander. News to me.

              • *

                People just need to get out their video game mentality which has been rampant on here the last few days. People might think I’m being an A hole or harsh and oh, I definitely am, but the Yanks can easily field a highly competitive team next season, easily be under the $189mm threshold, but my feeling is that 99% will still be unhappy about it and without Cano. This is why in business it’s not good to be nice. You give someone 2 inches of rope and they’ll take 2 feet. Then we have the grammar nazis come out when no further argument can be made.

                All in all, the Yanks could make two or three more moves and not sign Cano and they will have a terrific team going into 2014. What else do people want? Years of fantasy baseball, video games, etc have people completely washed out. On my team, since he is under contract, Ichiro plays RF. End of story.

                • jsbrendog

                  your team sucks.

                  • Robinson Tilapia

                    By tomorrow, his screen name may just be a big blank as well.

                • Mr. Roth

                  So you’re saying that if Gardner doesn’t get traded that we only have a 20% chance to sign Cano?

                  And you’re saying that you’d prefer to just tell Nunez that 2B is his, and he better learn 2B “FAST” because he’s right handed and Cano is left handed?

                  And you’re saying that we only need to sign one more starter?

                  You’re a fucking moron.

                • hogsmog

                  I called an average free agent pool average.

                  Apparently this means that I don’t think the Yankees can field a competitive team under $189m, will be pissed if Cano isn’t signed, and have a video game mentality?

                  Go home.

            • jsbrendog

              so, i will give you garza. feldman is league average, so whatever. you realize that feldman, ubaldo are unknowns. you dont know what youll get because they havent shown any consistency.

              feldman has been alternating league average years a far below league average years for 5 years now.

              ubaldo, while he did experience a career renaissance, had been terrible the 2 years prior.

              kuroda might want to retire. plus they already offered him a deal. nothing they can do now.

              tanaka is not available.

              johan santana is coming off extremely serious surgery and is an absolute unknown and might not even play ever again.

              ervin santana hasnt been that good since 2008 and has had 2 terrible atrocious years, one league average year, and one slightly above league average year prior to last year and will want max years and money. not only does he prob not fit into the budget but he also could just as easily suck. he will want to get paid off last yr which i pray the yankees do not do.

              arroyo is 37 and has been league average in the nl for 8 years.

              maholm has never pitched in the american league and was pretty terrible last year when he was healthy. double red flag.

              hammel has been turrble other than that one year in 2012 and has been hurt both of the last 2 years.

              halladay is coming off serious shoulder injury and didnt exactly light it up for the phillies after he came back and is also old as dirt

              i believe you mean hudson from arizona who hasnt pitched in two yrs cause of two tjs. not gonna play this year.

              tommy hanson is hurt as well and sucks as well.

              yankees in no way shape or form have enough to get samardja

              they could possibly get anderson cause who knows wtf billy bean is thinking.

              garza is an option but prob costs too much

              other than him id take ubaldo if he is willing to only do 1-3/4 yrs at a reasonable price but if vargas and hughes are getting $8 mil how much would ubaldo want?

              • *

                Did I say I like these options? No, I didn’t, but I’ve accepted the reality of things and look at this from a logical standpoint of signing or acquiring what is available. That’s the point I am making. I made a statement, someone responded saying “what wealth of options” and I made the point that there are over a dozen pitchers that Yanks could pick from right now. It’s not my fault none of them are the caliber of Hernandez. You make the best with what you have. Your responses have been about the “quality” of these options, which I don’t disagree, they’re not great, but you and I are in two totally different worlds right now. I’m in reality and you’re in MLB2K 2016 or something. Sorry, bro..

                • jsbrendog

                  O:S

                  • Robinson Tilapia

                    You were a patient man. Almost mac-like.

                    • jsbrendog

                      benefit of the doubt. one day i’ll learn.

                      won’t have any hair left, which is saying soemthing for someone as hairy as me….but i’ll learn

              • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                You spent way too much time responding to him when you know he’s not going to read any of it.

                • jsbrendog

                  it’s cool though cause even if the people i write this shit to don’t read it it gives me a reason and motivation to think about it/look up facts and by doing so could actually influence my opinion one way or the other. like i didnt even think of halladay but hey, if he is willing to take a 1 yr deal or an Milb deal as what would be a 6th or 7th option in the rotation im all in and when someone gets hurt of replacing phelps he comes in….

                  nah mean?

            • Robinson Tilapia

              Yohan Santana, the Latin-Swedish sensation. Pickled pernil for everyone.

        • jsbrendog

          name one viable trade option that the yankees have anywhere near enough talent to land.

          go ahead, we’ll wait.

          ::waits::

    • Cool Lester Smooth

      Or they could bat Cano third, you know, since he’s the best hitter on the team.

      • jsbrendog

        nitpick:

        he is not the best hitter on the team cause he is nto on the team…

  • MartinRanger

    This whole thing with Cano not coming back is really dependent on someone else actually bidding for him. And right now the only team on record is the Mariners, and that’s based on some industry scuttlebutt, and no actual offer.

    I’ll believe the Yankees will be outbid for Cano when I see it. Not before.

  • Fin

    Gardner might be a wait and see type of thing. If the Yankees are betting that Arod gets suspended for the year and they can still get under $189, Gardner has to be a big part of that, being a good player for a cheap price. Maybe if Arod isn’t suspended as long as the Yankees need, Gardner is moved for a more expensive piece, since that would seemingly blow up any $189 plan.

  • http://www.draftstreet.com/register.aspx?r=Jedile Jedile

    LF – Gardner
    CF – Ellsbury
    RF – Soriano/Ichiro (DFA Wells).
    3B – Arod/Johnson/Reynolds (Hope for a resign)
    SS – Jeter/Ryan
    2nd – Cano/Johnson (Hope for a resign)
    1st – Teix/Johnson/Reynolds/
    C – McCann/Cerv

    Bench:
    Ichiro, Reynolds, Cerv, Ryan, Johnson maybe?

    Rotation:
    CC
    Kuroda (Hope for a resign)
    Nova
    Tanaka/Anderson/Phelpsy/Nuno
    Phelpsy/Nuno

    The rest to the Pen!!!

    • OldYanksFan

      How much as we paying this Hope for a resign guy who plays 3 positions?

      • W.B. Mason Williams

        ietc

  • MartinRanger

    One other thing with Ellsbury is that I wonder if, as he ages and losing bat speed and foot speed, if he might not transition to a player more like Johnny Damon when he was here – a pesky hitter who sacrifices batting average to whack 20 homers a year. He clearly -has- some power potential, as shown by 2011 – it’s just highly unlikely he can sustain his other stats while also being a power hitter (he’s not going to hit 30 – that was a ridiculous HR/FB rate). Admittedly, Damon hit more homers in his age-20 seasons. But I don’t think it’s out of the question.

    Another possible point of comparison would be Marquis Grissom in his late career form. Again, a bit more power previously, but definitely a player who reinvented himself into something quite useful in his years in San Francisco.

    Frankly I would’t mind having Johnny Damon in Ellsbury’s 34-37 seasons. He’d be overpaid, but still quite useful. So I wonder if the Yankees have that in mind.

    • I’m One

      I’d accept that. 3-4 years of 2011 Ellsbury and 3-4 years of Damon-typ production. We can dream ….

    • qwerty

      It would be nice if that is the kind of player he turned into, but it’s highly speculative and not very likely, imo. Outside of that one season ellsbury has shown absolutely no power potential. It actually makes me wonder if he might have been on PEDs that one year.

      • Fin

        Gota hope its the shoulder surgery that sapped his power after 2011 and his power surge late last year, portends things to come as he becomes further removed from the surgery. PEDs is certainly not out of the question though.

        • MartinRanger

          They aren’t, but if we assume for a moment he isn’t on PEDs, if he avoids freak shoulder injuries for a while he should display a bit of pop. I am encouraged by the majority of his homers coming in the second half.

  • MartinRanger

    Oh, another bit of news – there is no eighth-year option – it’s a flat seven-year contract.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      Source?

      —–
      Tim Brown
      ?@TBrownYahoo
      Ellsbury contract, according to source: 7 yrs, $148 million. 8th-year option that would take contract to $169m. Buyout is $5m. No-trade.

      • Cool Lester Smooth

        MLBTR had it earlier, but it looks like they’ve changed it.

        • jsbrendog

          Yankees Agree To Sign Jacoby Ellsbury
          By Zach Links [December 4, 2013 at 1:03pm CST]

          WEDNESDAY: Ellsbury is guaranteed $148MM over the first seven years of the contract, and there is a $21MM option for an eighth year that comes with a $5MM buyout, according to Yahoo’s Tim Brown (on Twitter).

          • MartinRanger

            https://twitter.com/jaysonst/status/408291016366505984

            Jayson Stark:
            Source familiar with Ellsbury talks says there is NO option for 8th year in deal, despite reports to contrary.

            Sounds like there is some confusion then.

            • MartinRanger

              In any case, 5 mil buyout is peanuts in Yankee terms. Not by any means prohibitive.

              So it’s a seven-year deal unless he outperforms expectations, in which case the Yankees get him another year. As options go, it doesn’t get much better.

  • hey now

    The thought of Ellsbury and Gardner on the bases simultaneously does induce a sort of Homer Simpson drool.

    The catcher won’t be calling many breaking balls in the dirt, leaving some potential meatballs for the lucky 3 and 4 hitters.

    • TWTR

      Ellsbury could make Gardner a better base stealer because he will always be in front of him, and opposing teams could worry about him more, except when Gardner’s run means more.

    • I’m One

      It would be a nice addition to the offense. Maybe Ellsbury can get Gardner running a bit more as well. While I’m pretty sure Gardner is faster, one of the things I love about Nunez is his fearlessness on the bases. If Ellsbury can teach Gardner something, maybe they Yankees have 2 guys approaching 50 stolen bases for the next couple of seasons (provided Gardner is retained past the 2014 season).

  • Cool Lester Smooth

    I gotta say, it’s good to have you back, Joe.

    • Havok9120

      Very much so.

      • Robinson Tilapia

        Seriously. This.

  • Dalek Jeter

    LF Gardner L
    CF Ellsbury L
    1B Teixeira S
    2B Cano L
    RF Soriano R
    C McCann L
    DH Jeter R
    3B Johnson/Reynolds L/R
    SS Ryan R

    If Robby doesn’t resign(god I really hope he does), maybe sign Infante and bat him 6th/7th and bump everybody else up a spot?

  • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod

    …and once again, foiled by ancient IE. I fail.

  • D

    An ego hit for Jeter? Too bad if he doesn’t like it.

  • Kosmo

    Ellsbury CF
    Jeter SS
    Beltran RF
    Headley 3B
    Tex 1B
    Soriano LF
    McCann C
    Infante 2B
    Revolving DH

    if Cano signs elsewhere. Yanks trade Gardner for Headley.

    • jsbrendog

      why would san diego want a player who is 30 and is a free agent after this season? your trade proposal sucks.

      • Kosmo

        My trade proposal probably does “Suck“ as you say but Headley is also a FA after this season. Trading Headley for Gardner would allow SD to shed about 5-6 million. SD could then shift Gyorko to 3B where he´ll probably end up if SD doesn´t extend Headley. Yanks could offer up a prospect or 2 to make it happen.

        Who in your estimation plays 3B for NY in 2014 ?

        • jsbrendog

          i don’t know honestly, but i doubt gardner gets you headley. esp with gardner’s injury history and age. padres, if they are looking to shed salary, would most likely be looking for young cost controlled mlb ready ish talent. they also have maybin, quentin and venable. while gardner would probably be nice to have to either give quentin a rest and play cf for the mostly atrocious maybin he costs more, is much older, and i just don’t see it. nor do i see the ml ready talent the yanks have that sd would want…they already have a catching duo in hundley and grandal….i just don’t see it.

          doesnt mean it wont happen but i stand by my feeling that gardner for headley or even gardner+ lands headley.

          • MartinRanger

            I think Johnson plays the most games at 3rd next year. And if they get Cano back, I’m more than okay with that. The Yankees have to save somewhere if they have a prayer of getting under 189, as unlikely as it looks right now.

            • Robinson Tilapia

              I think someone not currently on the team plays the most games at third next season.

  • Rick

    Really warming up to this Ellsbury deal as more details come out. Essentially it’s 7/153 with a $16M option for the last year after you factor in the $5M buyout for the eight year. Ellsbury will be 31 when the season starts, I believe. If Beltran, at 37, is really seeking 3/48, I’d rather pay an extra couple of million dollars per year for the guy who is six years younger and better. Doesn’t matter how you slice it, Ellsbury can flat out play. Hated him while he was on Boston, but those reasons are self explanatory.

    • RetroRob

      Ellsbury just completed his age-29 season. He will be 30 next season, so basically this deal is for his age 30-36 seasons. If the Yankees actually pick up his age-37 season it will be for good reasons, meaning he is still performing.

  • MartinRanger

    If he can change his game to adjust to losing speed, and avoid crashing into teammates (he does at the least seem to be a slow healer), this could actually work out pretty well. It’s not a risk I’m really inclined to take, but there it is. He’s our problem now. Enjoy the next couple seasons, and then see what happens.

    Now, get pitching, pronto. They can’t win with their current rotation, Cano or no Cano.

    • Havok9120

      We could add Garza, Tanaka, and Kuroda and not have the offense we need to make the pitching work. Too many question marks.

      Cano remains my number one priority. Then Kuroda.

      • MartinRanger

        I mean, I suppose that’s true, but Cano could break his leg in spring training just as easily as Teix could.

        Right now, even assuming C.C. rebounds and manages a 3.70-3.80 ERA, which I think he will, the second best pitcher under contract is Ivan Nova. That’s…not good. Even if Pineda gives us 100 great innings, and Phelps recaptures his 2012 form, and Warren contributes, and even Banuelos pops up in the second half, that’s a bottom 5 rotation.

        Re-signing Kuroda would help, and frankly I think that Phelps and Warren both have a chance to be better than Phil was last year, but they need Tanaka or Garza at least.

        • Havok9120

          If it comes down to just Cano or Kuroda/Garza and another piece….I think I’ve gotta take Cano.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            Again, I have no clue how giving another guy 7/153 has made me feel more like this all goes to shit without Robbie, but here we are.

      • JGYank

        Agreed. We need pitching badly, but Cano can provide more value than any other player available.

  • Rick

    Reports starting to filter out that a deal with Cano and the Yanks may be done by tonight.

    • jsbrendog

      source? cause if no source then ron burgundy could be new anchor on nbc nightly news permanently by tonight…

      • Fin

        That. would be. awesome!

    • Havok9120

      You got me very, very excited there. And then MLBTR and the beat writers had nothing on this.

      Bah, I say to you.

      • Rick

        It’s on twitter from the same guys that broke the Ellsbury deal yesterday.

        • Kosmo

          the plot thickens !

          • Rick

            Obviously taken with a grain of salt, but where there’s smoke, there’s fire. He was just in Seattle yesterday. Wouldn’t surprise me to find out Seattle is capping at a certain amount and he wants to spend the rest of his career in his NY because it’s not worth taking only a couple million extra elsewhere.

            • Kosmo

              especially trading the Broadway glow of Gotham for grey overcast skies of Seattle.

            • Robinson Tilapia

              Talks with Seattle were said to “have gone well,” although I don’t know who on earth would expect a different leaked answer than that right now. If this is the leverage play it is, there’s probably a tweetpic of Robbie getting blown by a hairy-legged Seattle stripper right now somewhere.

              Link or you’re talking out yo ass. Only fair.

        • Havok9120

          Feinsand more than anyone broke Ellsbury. He’s not said a thing. None of the big beat writers have said anything.

          • Rick

            You can thank me later when he re-signs I will take a hat tip.

            • jsbrendog

              is that you rick cerone?

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              You don’t get a hat tip with no source.

            • RetroRobbie

              Just post the Twitter link.

            • Havok9120

              I will do so should that happen. I WANT you to be correct.

              But you could quite easily provide a link and have not done so. You could predict this every day until it happens and you will eventually be correct. Doesn’t mean you should get any credit for it.

        • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

          Link / twitter handle or it didn’t happen.

    • Pat D

      Yea, unless you provide a direct source, I say you’re trolling.

      Without a specific source, you’re essentially posting false breaking news, which can get you banned.

  • Dicka24

    I’ll believe Jeter is batting 7th when I see it. Not that he shouldn’t or anything, but the last year he truly played, he hit over .300 (2012). While the majority would say he isn’t likely to do that at age 40, we also didn’t think he’d do it at age 38. I think Jeter starts out in his customary top of the line-up slot ( 1 or 2), until he shows that he doesn’t belong there. Also, assuming Cano resigns, would the Yankees really stack 3 straight lefties at the top, in Ellsbury, Gardner, and Cano? In late game situations, you’d hate to pinch hit for say Gardner, for a righty, since he’s an elite defender in the OF. I’d have to imagine that they’d look to slot a RH hitter in there somewhere. Be it by moving Cano to 4th, and say Soriano to 3rd in the line-up. That might play into keeping Jeter in the top of the order, if he shows he can still handle the bat.

    • Fin

      I think people forget just how great Jeter is against lefties. I forgot and someone reminded me in another post. I definitely think Jeter will start off the year in the 2 spot and maybe move down in the order against righties as the season goes on.

      Also really cant compare the pleasant surprise Jeter was in 2012 to the shock it would be if he could do that again at the age of 40 coming off his ankle trouble.

    • Fin

      If Ichiro is on the bench as a 4th outfielder, pinch hitting for Gardner late in the game is no big deal as you don’t loose much by then subbing in Ichiro on D.

  • Dan

    They need two SPs. Trading Gardy is the way to do it. The only other way would be by not signing Cano. I’m onboard with Ellsbury, and willing to say it’s a 1 year over pay in this market (if it was 6/$125m no one would be complaining). But it is all based on getting Cano back. If this was the Cano money, I’m not on board.

    • Kosmo

      I like the idea of trading Gardner for a SP, so realistically who would be on the list of possibilities ?

      • MartinRanger

        The A’s have more outfielders than you can swing a bat at, so they probably won’t want him. Wonder if the Cardinals might take him for a Lance Lynn type?

        • Kosmo

          I was thinking Homer Bailey but the Reds have Hamilton waiting in the wings.

          • MartinRanger

            It might still be worth a try. Hamilton is fast as hell but he’s never hit much in the minors. The Reds have to wonder if throwing him out there as a regular is actually a good idea.

          • Fin

            I’ve seen a couple reports that Hamilton is not ready for MLB, and possibly will be a 4th OF type as he cannot hit. He runs like Mays but hits like shit.

          • Dan

            I was wondering about Bailey too. Both are FAs after next year. Reds need a leadoff hitter. Gardy and one of Phelps/Warren/Nuno could be enough to get him [maybe another prospect too]. He’s a young pitcher who will be pretty cheap this year and would get a QO next year.

            He’s the guy to get.

            • *

              which further proves my point above, there are “options”.

              Thanks for putting Bailey’s name out there. Seriously, well done.

            • *

              ..and someone will inevitably respond saying the Yanks can’t offer enough, the Yanks farm sucks. They have no prospects, they have no money, they have no idea what they’re doing.

              SIGN CANO AT ALL COSTS. I’m just trying to follow the narrative of this group on here…Thanks again for shooting out Bailey’s name.

              • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                You Americans have BEEG PEENIS! Garganutan Penis! MASTADONIAN PENIS!

                • Robinson Tilapia

                  Jim’s lost it.

                  Damn you, D*h *nn*ngs.

                  • Pat D

                    Wait just a second!

                    That partially deleted handle name looks vaguely familiar!

                    • Robinson Tilapia

                      I’m telling you: Tomorrow it’s just going to a blank, or “___ ________.”

  • Neil

    LF Gardner
    SS Jeter
    CF Ellsbury
    DH Soriano
    -C McCann
    1B Texiera

    Top 6 spots in lineup. Thoughts?

    • Kosmo

      as it stands now NY still needs to add 1 or 2 power hitters like Cano and Beltran. If NY keeps Gardner I could see Soriano becoming the near fulltime DH. Still to early, let´s see what Santa brings.

      • Fin

        If NY keeps Gardner I still don’t see how Soriano is a full time DH. I just cant see the Yankees playing Ichiro in RF full time. LOL, not to mention the odds of Gardner and Ells staying healthy all year are pretty slim so Ichiro has a very good chance of getting significant playing time filling in for injuries.

    • TCMiller30

      I’d move Jeter down to 7.

      LF Gardner
      CF Ellsbury
      RF Soriano
      2B Cano (hopefully)
      1B Tex
      C McCann
      DH/SS Jeter
      3B Johnson/Reynolds (hopefully) with the other DHing when Jeters at SS
      SS Ryan when Jeter is DHing

      • Kosmo

        Not that I´m fond of projections BUT Steamer has Jeter hitting about .285 for 2014 and IMHO that´s probably not too far off the mark. career wise he´s proven to be a more consistent hitter than Gardner so until proven otherwise I think Jeter remains in the 2 hole. Gardner down in the lineup.

        • TCMiller30

          I’d be fine with Jeter hitting near the top against lefties.. Not so much against righties

    • JGYank

      Swap Tex and Sori and I’m not a fan of putting Ellsbury 3rd. I would put him at leadoff and find a spot for Gardy towards the bottom of the lineup and hope we add Cano to add some power and to lengthen the lineup. Not sure Sori, McCann, and Tex can supply enough power by themselves. Against righties, it would be a good move to drop Jeter down but I don’t think that’s happening and it would become harder to split the lefties.

  • RetroRob

    What is said and what is done are two different things. They should certainly shop Gardner about to see what they can get. The Yankees seem to strike in silence, so I would be shocked to flip on my computer later to see Gardner on another team!

  • chris

    Now We Gotta Sign Infante!!! over .300 hitter who gets on base. potential for boosted power in yankee stadium. Plays 3B, 2B, SS and corner outfield. Great insurance for A-Rod. The list goes on.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      I’d take him as a third baseman on a short-term deal until the Jageliomeister loks like he’s big-league ready.

  • Farewell Mo

    Outfield of Gardner, Ellsbury and Ichiro could be the best ever defensively but severely lacking in power.

    I guess Soriano could move to RF but does he have the arm to play out there? They’d probably go 1st-3rd on him all day long.

    • JGYank

      We lived with Swisher’s arm there. How bad could it be?

      Besides with the range we have in center and left, the need for right handed power in the lineup, and Ichiro ready on the bench, things can work with him there. We can also DH him and play Ichiro in right when Sori needs a rest.

  • JGYank

    I think the whole point of signing Ellsbury was to get Ichiro/Wells out of the lineup as much as possible so trading Gardy who is cheap wouldn’t make much sense since that would give them guaranteed playing time. That and not having to worry about future thin FA/trade markets for outfielders. So it’s hard to see Gardy get traded when he’s one of the few guys worth his contract and they still need him if they want some production/value from all 3 outfield spots. Also an outfield defense of Gardy, Ells, and Ichiro (put in as a defensive replacement for Sori or a pinch runner) would be amazing and an excellent baserunning trio as well. Having Gardy and Ells on the bases at the same time would give pitchers serious issues.

    I still think the lineup lacks some power but Cano would help some of that. Not sure if he stays or lowers his price but I would love to have him back. Besides getting a solid 3b which is somewhat unrealistic considering the other holes we still need to fill, signing Cano would give us the best lineup we could of possibly assembled coming off of 2013 but we also need to start focusing on pitching. Choo and Beltran would have been just as good or even slightly better offensively, but the point is we would have filled every hole that isn’t affected by Arod’s arb case (3b) or is needed to give guys days off (DH). If that happens, I can’t wait to see our offense even if there’s a weak spot at 3rd and Ryan has to bat when Jeter is the DH. Not the perfect lineup but a huge upgrade from last year if healthy.

    The JE deal was an overpay and the back end could be rough, but I’m glad we’re going to be better next year and that we’re going all in. Just hope JE holds up. He doesn’t have to repeat 2011, but if he repeats 2013 without any DL stints and plays more games I would happily take that even if that’s still not worth $20+M. Great addition but very risky signing.

  • JustCallMe ELmoney

    I’m excited to see Jacoby in pinstripes irrespective of what happens with Cano, and having a CF/LF of JE and BG will be awesome defensively.

    FWIW MLBTR is reporting that the Mariners have topped the Yankees offer:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/new_york_yankees/

    • MartinRanger

      “making the pitch to Cano that he can either be a Yankee legend or be a baseball legend by helping the Mariners win their first World Series.”

      I got a bit of a laugh out of that. The Mariners have a lot of talented pitching, but they are a long way off.

      It’s a game of chicken now. I do believe that if they loose Cano they might go out and sign Choo and trade Gardner for pitching. I’m not sure that’s the best approach to take, but it seems plausible. Or platoon him with Soriano. while Sori gets his abs against righthanders at DH.

  • Chris H

    As far as I’m concerned Jeter should hit no higher than 7th in the lineup against RHP going forwardm he can keep hitting second vs LHP. Sure it’s an ego check, but at this point he should have to prove himself like anyone elss. He’s too conscious of his image to pull a Posada, he’ll be mad but he’d do it.

  • http://franklance godfather

    keep gardner, best reason being they need him on that wall; ells is always a dl waiting to happen, but when both are healthy, they can mess up the basebaths; see no need for the philips fascination; he’s gotten superstar coverage for a career that’s been less than that; adding kelly johnson was a good move…i like the speed motif, particularly because i’d run the hell out of ells, whose pact is about halfway short of his relevance…just sign cano, whydoncha…it’s all very dumb, but i’m 80 and won’t be awaiting development anyway…but I did see most of the greats — from joe to mo, so let’s give no. 28 a shot, shall we?