Mailbag: Franklin, Soriano, Anna, Lineups, Rule 5

2013 Winter Meetings Day Four Open Thread
Bullpen exodus: Joba to Tigers, Logan to Rockies

Only five questions this week, and some of the answers are kinda short. We must have received about a dozen different variations of the first two questions. Great minds think alike, I hear. The Submit A Tip box in the sidebar is the best way to send us anything.

(Ed Zurga/Getty)
(Ed Zurga/Getty)

Many people asked: What about Nick Franklin?

Now that Robinson Cano is locked in at second base for the next decade, the Mariners don’t have an obvious spot for the 22-year-old Franklin. He hit .225/.303/.382 (90 wRC+) with 12 homeruns and six stolen bases in 412 plate appearances this past season, his first taste of the show. Franklin is a switch-hitter who has always struggled against lefties, so much so that there’s been talk of making him hit exclusively left-handed. He’s the anti-Derek Jeter on defense — good amount of range but makes a lot of errors because he boots grounders and makes bad throws — and the total package is more solid regular than future All-Star.

Franklin has understandably been getting talked up as a trade chip since the Cano signing and the hype has surpassed reality, kinda like Mike Olt a year or so ago. He’s good but not truly great. The Yankees can use a young second baseman now and Franklin would certainly fit, though I don’t think the Mariners are ready to move him. They could always send him back to Triple-A and have him work at other positions or wait for a better offer. There’s no need to rush into a decision. I’m more intrigued by Dustin Ackley to be honest, because at least there’s All-Star caliber talent hiding in their somewhere. I’d rather see New York buy super low on him and hand him over to Kevin Long than pay market rate for Franklin. Franklin fits a need, no doubt, but I feel like there’s a disconnect between what he actually is and how he’s being valued.

Many people asked: What about moving Alfonso Soriano to second base?

This ain’t happening. Soriano hasn’t played second base at all since 2009 or regularly since 2005, and, in case you forgot, he was pretty terrible there. We saw it firsthand from 2001-2003. He wasn’t Eduardo Nunez bad, but he misplayed a lot of balls on the infield during his time there. Soriano is going to be 38 next month and he’s played 3.2 innings at second base over the last eight years. This isn’t even something the Yankees can seriously consider.

Andrew asks: Will Dean Anna be competing for a MLB roster spot in Spring Training or was he added purely for depth in the minors? I have not heard any discussion about him being a potential 2B option for the Yanks.

Can’t it be both, compete for a job in camp and be added for depth? The Yankees have an open position player spot right now — could be two if they cut one of Vernon Wells and Ichiro Suzuki — and that figures to go to whatever infielder they acquire in the coming weeks. If they don’t add an infielder, Anna probably has to beat out Nunez for a roster spot. For some reason the incumbent always seems to have up in these competitions. I’m intrigued by Anna’s on-base skills and like him as an up-and-down depth player, but if he makes the team out of camp as even a semi-regular at second, something probably went wrong somewhere.

(Thearon W. Henderson/Getty)
(Thearon W. Henderson/Getty)

Andy asks: Can you make up what a potential Yankees line-up would look like now? Against both lefties and righties.

Given the roster as it sits today, meaning no obvious second/third baseman, here are the lineups I would run out there:

                  vs. RHP                   vs. LHP
1.   CF Jacoby Ellsbury 1.   CF Jacoby Ellsbury
2.   LF Brett Gardner 2.   SS Derek Jeter
3.   RF Carlos Beltran 3.   1B Mark Teixeira
4.   C Brian McCann 4.   DH Alfonso Soriano
5.   DH Alfonso Soriano 5.   RF Carlos Beltran
6.   1B Mark Teixeira 6.   C Frankie Cervelli
7.   3B Kelly Johnson 7.   3B Kelly Johnson
8.   SS Derek Jeter 8.   2B Brendan Ryan
9.   2B Brendan Ryan 9.   LF Brett Gardner

You and I both know Jeter will bat second against righties and lefties as long as he’s healthy. That’s just the way it is. I would bat him lower in the order against righties until he shows he can hit them, however. The Cap’n had a 99 wRC+ against same-side pitchers even during his big bounceback 2012 season, so I’m skeptical about what he can do at his age and following what amounts to a lost season.

Ellsbury and Gardner had almost identical batting averages (.246 vs. 247) and on-base percentages (.317 vs. .323) against lefties last season, but Gardner hit for much more power (.071 vs. .180 ISO). That doesn’t really jibe with the rest of his career though. Ellsbury and Gardner have identical career 96 wRC+ against southpaws, so the tiebreaker goes to the guy who will steal 40+ bases no questions asked (who also happens to have a $153M contract). Batting Gardner ninth instead of eighth against lefties allows him to serve as a second leadoff man, so to speak.

The rest is pretty straight forward, right? Soriano was awesome last year but McCann is the (much) better hitter against right-handers, which is why I have him batting cleanup against righties. I’d use a straight splatoon at catcher as a way to give McCann regular time off as well. He’s going to need the rest, it comes with the territory, so you might as well rest him against southpaws and get Frankie in there. Jeter and Teixeira still mash left-handers (or at least they did the last time they were healthy), making them a natural fit for the two-three spots against southpaws.

Laying the lineup out like this makes it easy to see how much the team needs a second or third baseman, preferably a righty bat. Those lineups would look so much better if they moved Ryan to the bench, shifted Johnson to second, and had someone like Mark Reynolds to bat seventh or eighth, no?

Jon asks: Explain the minor league Rule 5 Draft. How could you just lose players for $12,000? How many could you protect? Could the Yankees have chosen players from other minor league teams for $12,000 or did their lack of room on the 40-man roster prevent it?

The lack of 40-man space has nothing to do with the ability to make picks in the minor league portion of the Rule 5 Draft. The minor league phase is pretty complicated, so I’ll direct you to this J.J. Cooper explanation. I don’t even fully understand it. All I know is that if you take a player in the minor league phase, he’s yours to keep. Those guys do not have to go through the same roster hoops as the players drafted in the Major League portion. The Rule 5 Draft exists as a way to give players an opportunity with a new organization if they’re buried or overlooked by their current team, and, for the most part, it accomplishes that goal.

email
2013 Winter Meetings Day Four Open Thread
Bullpen exodus: Joba to Tigers, Logan to Rockies
  • http://www.twitter.com/_swarlesbarkley Mark Teixeira – Ghostbuster (formerly Drew)

    I don’t care about match ups, you are really going to bench McCann for Cervelli? Come on Mike…

    • Gardners third leg

      Unless McCann is playing 162 games a year, I don’t see why not.

      • http://www.twitter.com/_swarlesbarkley Mark Teixeira – Ghostbuster (formerly Drew)

        So you would give $85 million for a platoon player?

        • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

          Oh please. You know that’s an oversimplification.

          We gave $85 million to a player who needs a day off every so often, and if he’s better against one type of pitcher, why not choose those days off for the kind he’s worse against?

          He’s not catching 162 games, and there’s not enough room at DH for him to play 162 games. He’s going to have days off.

        • gardners third leg

          Hes gonna hit against some lefties. The point is Cervelli has hit lefties well in the past. Again he can’t play 162 games for the next 5 years and stay healthy. This is a way to manage his workload.

        • hogsmog

          Because opening day lineups are the only lineups ever used throughout the entire season.

    • Junior

      What he means is, if he needs 1 out of 7 days off for rest, might as well rest him when we face a lefty. That way it won’t hurt as much. If we face 3 lefties in a week, obviously he will not get all 3 days off.

    • I’m One

      McCann won’t play 162 games. Keeping him fresh may help him stay healthy. Since (in a SSS) Cervelli has hit lefties well, why not stick with a straight platoon for the most part? Should give McCann ~5 of 7 starts or somewhere around 110+ games. Sounds good to me.

  • DERP

    I don’t see why the team needs Suzuki and Wells. Hopefully they go into the season with only one of them.

    • mitch

      I think there’s a better chance neither of them are on the roster than both of them.

      • I’m One

        Even if it meant Almonte is the 4th OF, I’d be fine with that.

        • mitch

          It’s really the 5th OF spot. If they were to add something like Infante and Reynolds that would free up Kelly Johnson to act as the 5th OF.

        • The Great Gonzo

          Doubt it. I think you are stuck with at least one of these in Almonte’s roster spot in 2014. 2015, however, I could see him making a move to the 4OF role.

  • camilo

    I know a Yankee fan has no right to cry, but ravel wasn’t buried; he broke his leg or something. I wouldn’t be surprised if nyy filed a grievance, as they spent much more than 12k for him…

    on the bright side, can’t say the yanks don’t have a farm system

    • Rick

      What would the grievance say? Dear MLB Labor Guy, We are sad that the Astros took a player we invested a lot of money in, despite being well within their rights under the CBA. Anyway you want to look up some BS excuse for us to get him? Sincerely, Yankees Labor Guy.

      • The Great Gonzo

        Nailed it. I might include an ‘it not fair!!!’ in there though.

        There is a much better chance that Ravel becomes nothing than of him becoming the one that got away because of ‘its not fair’.

        • camilo

          I’m talking for the good of baseball, not just nyy. Imagine the same thing happening to an Astros bonus babe in low A…

          obviously, nothing happens before the cba expires. You just have to do your due D so that the powers that be will take note

          • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

            Due-d? doody? I like it.

    • pat

      What he hell?

  • cashjr

    I apologize for being off topic a bit, but now that our initial frustration should be over (and no one at this point should be blaming Cano for leaving – any blame should go to the yanks, or obviously to the M’s), how about some over/under wagers for Cano next year? Given the larger ballpark, extra pressure of trying to live up to a big contract and lack of protection I’m thinking over/under’s could be as follows:

    Avg – 300
    HR’s – 25
    RBI – 100

    I’d be willing to bet (but not a real lot) on the under on all three.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

      I’d certainly take the under on the RBI, which should be particularly disappointing to Jack Z who apparently still values RBI and makes decisions based on them.

    • mitch

      over/under/under

      • The Great Gonzo

        If i had to put some #s down, its this. and I bet his OBP is through the roof.

        Any chance of @KabakHatWatch coming back? He’s gonna get those 80 walks this year.

        • Chris in Maine

          I don’t know about that, while some of the signings Seattle has made might be ill advised, I don’t think that they suck too much more than what the Yankee’s sent out there last season.

        • WhittakerWalt

          I wouldn’t bet the ranch on that if I were you. Robbie had PLENTY of opportunity to rack up walks this past season, but didn’t do it. He was surrounded by crappy hitters all year long. He’s his own worst enemy at times, and goes into long stretches where he gets himself out, even when it’s clear that he’s getting pitched around.

    • I’m One

      I’ll bite.

      Over
      Under
      Over

      Bigger ball park will rob him of HRs, but shouldn’t hurt (and could help) his average. Hitting in the 3rd or 4th hole should help his RBIs.

      • Kosmo

        .257
        20
        67

        he misses 1 month with a pulled hammy caused from running hard down the 1st base line. He hits .189 with RISP.

      • The Great Gonzo

        The shitty lineup around him (no, I am not sold on Morrison and Hart as the modern day Bash Brothers) will hurt his RBIs

        • Kosmo

          he had a shitty lineup around him in 2013 ?

          • The Great Gonzo

            Duly noted. However, what the Yankees had (even in short spurts) is better than what Seattle is going to trot out there, unless they make another move or 2.

          • Havok9120

            And we spent all year trying to figure out why they were pitching to him. I don’t see teams making that mistake two years straight. ESPECIALLY if Seattle doesn’t make a few more moves.

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              I think you underestimate either the stupidity of MLB Managers, or their bravado. Most of them are very, very good at making the same mistake year after year.

        • I’m One

          Yeah, I thought about that, but hitting 3rd or 4th all season should offset the shittier line up. At least that was my initial thought.

          • Havok9120

            I just don’t see it. Maybe the first couple times through the division they’ll pitch to him, but unless a couple guys get really hot for a few months, I can’t see how they’ll make the same mistake they made for so much of last season AGAIN.

            We at least had guys playing out of their minds in April that kept other teams honest in April/May. In June, when all that was done, was when his walk rate skyrocketed until reinforcements arrived. Seattle has no reinforcements forthcoming.

    • Nick

      I reckon he’ll hit .300 +/-5 points. I’ll take the over on the homers and under on the RBIs.

  • gageagainstthemachine

    Makes no sense to me that the Yankees didn’t participate in the MiLB Rule V Draft. They lost 4 guys for good and took no players in return. I’m sure it is complicated as Mike stated, but for a farm system that gets knocked around so much as being mediocre at best, why wouldn’t you take a shot at something in the draft?

    • nycsportzfan

      because they have a full 40man roster.

      • the tenth inning stretch

        Doesn’t matter in the minor league portion of the draft, apparently.

    • The Great Gonzo

      They didn’t want to ruin any more development of young players, amirite?

      • camilo

        I laughed, almost out loud.

    • Caballo Sin Nombre

      Having a “mediocre” farm system has nothing to do with the relative quality of your 90th best guy. Other than Kahnle, that’s what we’re talking about. Kahnle was more like their 15th-20th best guy. But systems are judged against each other based on their top propsects, not their marginal ones.

      • Caballo Sin Nombre

        Sorry, I meant Kahnle was their 15-20th best prospect, which is more like their 50-60th “best guy” overall.

  • UncleArgyle

    I would vomit if that was the vs RHP lineup. Moving the All Glove No Bat ShortStop to second to accommodate the Ego of the All Bat No Glove of Jeter is not something you do if the goal is to win baseball games. If you simply move Jeter to third, Ryan to SS, and Johnson to second, at least you have something that looks like a major league infield defense. Honestly Jeter probably can play short about as well as Miguel Cabrera can play 3rd at this point in his career. Not his fault, but he’s 39 with a bad ankle!! Real question, if Jeter plays 150 games at Short this year what will his Ultimate Zone Rating be? Negative 50 UZR? Anyway, I’m sure your right. At this point it wouldn’t surprise me if Jeter was still playing shortstop for the Yankees 10 years from now.

    • Cliff

      Honestly when Jeter turned down his option they should have said “Adios”

    • Jimmy

      Sounds like someone had a bad apple in their fruit basket.

    • OldYanksFan

      By ST, it will be a full year and a half since Jeter broke his ankle. And his ankle wasn’t the problem last year, it was his legs… which did NOT get enough time to work out because he was in a boot.

      Jeets will never be a good SS, probably not even near average, but his ankle shouldn’t be an issue.

  • dars

    This is Jeter’s last hurrah…. He can’t play defense anymore and he does not have enough of a bat to be a full time DH and he has too much pride to understand that it is time to take a secondary role…

    By the way, we just lost Boone Logan. A bullpen of Claiborne, Phelps, Cabral, Betances, Kelley and Robertson is a recipe for a lot of losses in the late innings….

    • Rick

      To think opening day will be here before the start of the new year too

      • Havok9120

        Dars has disliked every signing they’ve made and disliked each non-signing EVEN MORE, as if that were possible.

    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

      A bullpen of tomato sauce, noodles, oregano, basil, a little garlic, and a pot of boiling water is a recipe for a lot of delicious pasta in the late innings.

    • Caballo Sin Nombre

      Obviously we should have given Booney a QO… ok, I’m just kidding.

  • Mark L.

    Between his defense, his baserunning, and his bat, Nunez may actually be a respectable option to split time at 3B. He was actually non-terrible for the last 3 months of the season.

    • The Great Gonzo

      Id rather him at second. His range would play better there IMO, and maybe he won’t rush a throw and send it into the stands…

      • Vern Sneaker

        I wish we’d finally get rid of Nunez if only not to have to read all the hate-Nunez comments on RAB all year. He’s only to going to disappoint us all season no matter what position or how often he plays.

        • The Great Gonzo

          I solely look forward to the Nunez helmet flying any time he’s at bat or on base. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO he never disappoints me.

          • nycsportzfan

            I’m with ya. I stuck up for him many times on these boards, personally, mostly reffering to his bat and speed as the reasons why. Also, he did get better defensivley, if not only alittle, the last few months of the season. But his versatility, speed, and bat, and the fact hes right handed with a nice line drive stroke, makes me think he can be a super sub for many yrs to come. Shoot, i think he can be a 280ish 10-15hr 60-75rbi 30sb type guy if given a real shot. Nuny can play if you ask me.

            • Kosmo

              he has been given a real shot but each time he is DLed. I think .265 8 HR and 50 RBI is closer to what his talent thus far has indicated but I´d be very happy with an uptick in production provided he remains a Yank.

    • OldYanksFan

      He will be there against LHP.

    • WhittakerWalt

      “his bat”

      LOL

    • WhittakerWalt

      “his defense”

      LOLOLOLOL

  • lou

    Jeter was showing no signs of slowing down with the bat last year. Ask yourself this who would you rather have up as of today in a playoff spot with runners one 1st and 3rd or any play off spot fot that matter? Jeter or Gardner? They will not bat Jeter any lower then #2 even if he gets off to a bad start they will wait for him to come around. I agree with this because they sent up Ben Fransciso, Boesch, Wells waiting for these guys to come around. There is no chance they let the captain hit any lower.

    Trade Gardner and get something for him before you pull another Cano and let him walk. There is no chance this team signs Gardner after 2014 so instead of waiting for him to get hunt “once” again or Ells, Sori, Beltran to get hurt turn him around for something worth while. Teams are looking now so go pull something off. Gardner is a #9 hitter which easily can be replaced.

    • lou

      P.S some of you are replying that Jeter is going to DH a lot and he can’t play SS. So the Yankees have a good outfield right? So what’s going on with their infield is seems they don’t have one. 2b, SS, 3b, are pretty much all question marks. Use Gardner turn him around for something now before he breaks a finger nail.

  • Kosmo

    I´d like to see NY trade for Ackley and Gregorius. IF Arizona lands Garza, NY could then take Cahill off their hands, he´s owed 20 million over the next 2 years. Arizona will need a fleet footed CF to take the pressure off Trumbo. So Gardner + for Gregorius and Cahill.

    Ackley for Ramirez and ?

    • lou

      Would be a good move you sure up your infield a little bit and maybe up your offer to Infante? You now landed a SS and 2b. Yankees cannot sit and go into the season with a cycle of players playing the infield. Move GARDNER!!

    • The Great Gonzo

      Remember, your trade proposal sucks

      • Kosmo

        always !

      • lou

        In your opinion.

        • Kosmo

          FWIW I was referring to myself.

        • Havok9120

          Whoooosh.

        • Jorge Steinbrenner

          Maybe we need to schedule staff orientation.

          • I’m a looser and a trader baby so why don’t you kill me?

            Must remember to invite Wasted Trip and his son. Sounds right up his alley.

  • lou

    Yankees need to do something at 2b because 2015 free agent 2b’s are

    Emilio Bonifacio (30)
    Rafael Furcal (37)
    Kelly Johnson (33)
    Nick Punto (37) – club/vesting option
    Rickie Weeks (32) – $11.5MM vesting option
    Ben Zobrist (34) – $7.5MM club option ($500k buyout)

  • KennyH123

    I really think Kelly Johnson was a very good pickup and solid option at either 3B or 2B… he’s only a couple years removed from a .284, 26 HR season. But he doesn’t seem to hit as well platooning as he does playing every day… He hits lefthanders much better than righties anyway (.276 career vs. .244), so if he’s at 3B, I think I’d rather see him there full time instead of platooning with Reynolds or Nunez or someone.

    • mitch

      I disagree. I think a big part of his value is the ability to play multiple positions. I’d rather see him get 400 ABs switching between 3rd, 2nd, and OF than 500 at one position. Leaving him as a super utility guy makes the team much more flexible.

  • Dan

    I’m so pissed the Yanks missed out on Russell Wilson in the Rule 5. He’d be perfect to start at second.

  • lou

    I can live with a platoon at one position but going into the season with no 2b a SS ? up in the air and the same at 3b. I’m willing to platoon one but they Yankees cannot platoon all three.

    • OldYanksFan

      We have a SS named Derek Ryan, and he will put up at least 2 WAR.

  • joeyA

    MLBTR had a note that DET discussed a Jackson for Gardner swap.

    thoughts?

    • The Great Gonzo

      meh. I am still holding hope that they make the hot 3-way action work in the Gardner/Gregorius/Masterson scenario mentioned by Mike yesterday…

      • Kosmo

        which makes no sense, given what Cashman has said that they´ll only trade Gardner for a pitcher. Francona called Masterson to assure him he won´t be traded.
        Just trade Gardner + for Cahill and Gregorius.

        • Wm

          Ok. Now I get it. All of you folks on here are labeling Gardner like Ken fucking Griffy Junior.

          Seriously, dude. Gardner for Cahill and Gregorius. I’d like to think that Cashman has a great level of respect for a friend and associate to even make that proposal.

          Now I get it, you people are drunk from the last few days of MLBTR and think Gardner is worth the moon and above. If you can get a Paxton or Cahill type straight up (incredibly unlikely) you do that deal on the spot.

          Gardner is a dymanic player and holds a great deal of value to a team for 2014 only. Let’s remember this.

          • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

            You’re good at making friends, I see.

            • Jorge Steinbrenner

              Outside chance that we’ve just switched letters of the alphabet and forgot how to spell “_uh Innings.”

    • lou

      Gardner foe SP or infield help. Jackson Granderson #2?

      • Kosmo

        I´d be fine with a Gardner-Jackson swap.
        Gardner for Bailey
        gardner + for gregorius and Cahill
        Gardner + for Ackley and Paxton
        Infante on a 3 year deal with a 4th year option with a 3 million buyout.

        • Wm

          see my proposal below. Ackley and Paxton too much. This will go three ways.

          The M’s absolutely need an outfielder since they are rating the worst in the league right now. Jackson makes far more sense for the M’s since he has 2 years of control.

  • HulkHeyman

    Sadly, I believe Arod will be back at some point this season, MLB did some very shady things to obtain the information from Biogenesis. It will probably be reduced to 50-65 games like the rest of the group, 211 games was a reach.

    • Wm

      He will be suspended 100 games minimum. I still think the entire season is definitely in play. 100 games sets a precedent for future offenders. Alex is a repeat offender and while MLB might have a gray area concerning this case, Alex has done far more lying and overall damage to the game. 100 games at the lowest and I’m betting the full season. 211 probably isn’t happening, however.

      • Jorge Steinbrenner

        I think we don’t see him until 2015. Agreed. I think that, at worst, they throw out the part of the 212 that had him sitting out the rest of 2013.

      • OldYanksFan

        No… a repeat offender is someone who is caught and suspended TWICE, like Manny. Doing PEDs multiple years is not a repeat offense.

        I say the minimum is 85 games… still the largest 1st offense punishment. I think the max is 125 games… 2 first offenses +. 150 games is the season, and maybe ARod’s career, and then probably an ugly lawsuit MLB doesn’t need. I think the arbitrator will arrive at a compromise… which should be less than the season.

        • I’m a looser and a trader baby so why don’t you kill me?

          I agree. I think either 81 or 100 at this point.

  • FLYER7

    Ellsbury was just issued #22…does that mean Wells 40 man spot is going to Beltran???

  • Wm

    Austin Jackson + JR Murphy to the Mariners – Gardner + Ackley to the Tigers – James Paxton to the Yankees

    The M’s then trade Zunino + Franklin + Smoak/Montero + 1 additional good prospect for David Price

    • Kosmo

      Tigers don´t need Ackley seeing that they just landed a 2B in a trade.
      Yanks end up with a promising pitcher. Not buying it.
      Your trade proposal ….

      • Wm

        Wait, what?

        • Kosmo

          I´m not sure what you are saying. I would never make that trade if NY ends up with just Paxton Ackley is not worth as much as gardner.

          • Wm

            What? Dude, what the hell is wrong with you? You don’t trade an expendable outfield who will not be resigned nor receive a qualifying offer for a 24 year old left handed pitcher?

            • Havok9120

              You have no idea what their plans for extending Gardner are. And if he plays like he did this past season, a QO is by no means out of the question.

              In the meantime, you’ll have traded our only two legitimate chips for another question mark starter, of which we already have two. Such a trade would either need to be for someone closer to a sure thing or fill multiple holes. Your trade does neither. AND we lose one of our better players. Calling Gardner “expendable” does not make him so; Beltran/Soriano are not everyday OFs anymore.

              • Wm

                The Yankees probably aren;t going to resign Gardner due to cost and hopefully progress with their young players. In addition, there is an incredibly low chance that Gardner, now with Ellsbury in the line-up will have the type of season (offensively) to justify a QO .

                Beltran/Soriano are not everyday OF’rs. Sigh. Beltran RF/Ellsbury CF/Ichiro LF
                Almonte/Wells reserve

                James Paxton is a question mark? Kid looks like a pretty good gamble to me considering the price could be Gardner and Muprhy or Romine.

                • Havok9120

                  The price in your three team trade which we have absolutely no evidence anyone is considering.

                  You’re starting Ichiro in RF? Wut? AND keeping both Ichiro and Wells on the roster? No. No, no, no. Even if you dump Wells in and use Soriano in the OF (I’m assuming you forgot about him), why are you so eager to give Ichiro ABs? Gardner to any combination of Ichiro/Wells/Almonte is a huge downgrade.

                  The second sentence of your first paragraph makes no sense. There’s no reason Ellsbury coming into the fold would reduce Gardner’s offense. If might reduce his ABs some, especially with Beltran/Sori in the fold, but why would it impact his production in any way except to possibly increase it since a deeper lineup tends to get everyone better pitches to hit?

                  As for Paxton, this will be his fourth total season. He has 24 innings in the Show. The quality of his ~350 innings in the minors varied pretty heavily. I’m not saying I wouldn’t love to have him, but lets not pretend he’s any kind of sure thing, let alone in any way proven. Gardner and Murphy are our best trade chips at the moment, with Sanchez right behind them and, again, Gardner is one of our better MLB players. I’m just not sure you give him up for an unknown when our lineup has so many question marks and our other OFs have the injury/age questions that they do.

                  • Wm

                    “There’s no reason Ellsbury coming into the fold would reduce Gardner’s offense. If might reduce his ABs some, especially with Beltran/Sori in the fold, but why would it impact his production in any way except to possibly increase it since a deeper lineup tends to get everyone better pitches to hit?”

                    Interesting contradiction. Last I checked, fewer abs effects overall #’s.

                    For the 4,598,521 time: ICHIRO WILL BE SUITING UP COME OPENING DAY. ICHIRO WILL BE PLAYING IN THE OUTFIELD IN 2014 FOR MORE GAMES THAN ANYONE ON THIS FORUM WOULD LIKE TO ADMIT. MOVE ON FROM THIS..

                    Gardner is a free agent who has probably less than a 10% chance of playing with the Yanks going past 2014. I take a young left handed pitcher tomorrow for that.

                    • Havok9120

                      Ah. You’re talking about counting stats. RBIs, HR, etc. I was talking about his triple slash; I find OBP and BA more important indicators of offensive production. I’m also one of those people who think his defense is a major plus and deserves to be part of the discussion, especially when not all of his potential replacements are any good at it and one of the others is pushing 40.

                      Ichiro will get more playing time than I’d like, yes. Why are you assuming he’s a starter, though? Especially when starting him consistently means reducing playing time to the shiny new players ownership just acquired?

                      Your arguments about Gardner keep ignoring any value he has this season. Why is it unreasonable to want more for a guy (and Murphy) who can be as good as he is on both sides of the ball? Especially when the team has so many holes.

                • Jorge Steinbrenner

                  Perhaps he’s got a decent shot of becoming something, but I’d rather fire the Gardner bullet on someone who can slot in, and be a farily solid piece, behind the front two. That front two presents with enough question marks as is.

                  There is big value to keeping Gardner for 2014, even if, yes, he walks at the end of the year and doesn’t get a QO. If the team feels that he is part of a championship run, then that certainly is something.

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              Ok, I know I’ll have to say this a few more times but.

              WE ARE NOT THE TAMPA BAY RAYS, RAB.

              • Wm

                Umm, was there a point in there or just more crazy people responses?

                If you’re responding to the initial post with a secondary trade for Price, the reason I posted that is to provide contrast for the inevitable “why the hell would you trade Murphy to Seattle when they have a top prospect at catcher” yadayadya BS. Am I right? I know most of you folks can’t even tie your own shoes, so hopefully this clears up why a secondary proposal was made.

                Pretty soon I’ll be writing my comments in brail. Somehow, I have feeling that will be easier for most people to comprehend.

                • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                  Teehee

                • Havok9120

                  I think he’s more asking why you’re downgrading the roster for this coming season.

                • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                  Gardner has nearly guaranteed value, or however close you can get to guaranteed given injury risk/etc, for 2014.

                  Paxton has none of that. The Yankees, in general, are not in the habit of trading sure things for lottery tickets, especially if saving money is one of the motivations.

                  This iteration of the Yankees? Maybe they’re more likely to do something like that. But Gardner isn’t expensive this year, in fact, he’s probably one of the most valuable guys on the team, WAR/$.

                  My point is, the Rays have to trade established assets for cheap lottery tickets because they can’t afford to hold on to talent.

                  The Yankees do not have that restriction. They have the luxury of being able to afford ludicrous or wasted contracts like Pavano, most of Randy Johnson, ARod, Jeter, Tex, etc. Money allows them to, if they need a pitcher next year, overpay for someone rather than go cheap on an unknown. As evidenced by the signing of McCann rather than rolling with Murphy/Romine/Cervelli.

                  Could they trade Gardner for a young, unestablished pitcher? Sure. Is that their first choice? From all evidence so far this offseason, no.

                  • Sweet Dick Willie

                    Notice how logical posts generate no replies.

      • Wm

        Didn’t you propose something almost identical above?

        What’s wrong with you people on this forum? It’s actually a serious question that needs to be asked at this point. Some of you folks are absolutely out of your mind. We make almost similar proposals and you tell me my trade proposal sucks. Nice. Loser.

        • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

          You’re obviously new here.

          http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....son-19809/

        • Mr. Roth

          Your trade proposal sucks.

          And who the hell are you calling you people?

          • Jorge Steinbrenner

            Which sucks, since Jim IS black.

            #irresponsiblerumormongering

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              …scared to say anything…

              • Havok9120

                RACIST.

          • Jimmy

            I think he means the Irish.

        • Jorge Steinbrenner

          Oh boy.

          I’ll be peacemaker here.

          It is not that YOUR trade proposal sucks. It’s nothing about you. It’s a long standing meme on here, probably created by Joe/Ben/Mike, stemming from the fact that the average fan takes into account about 1/1000th of what goes on behind closed doors when throwing out fantasy trade proposals. It is not meant as in insult. My trade proposal sucks. Jim’s trade proposal sucks. nycsportzfan’s trade proposal sucks. Hell, Mike Axisa’s trade proposal sucks.

          I spent about a year and half completely lurking on here because I realized there was some sort of established internet culture on here which I didn’t want to step on. No one’s asking you be quiet, but understand that, sometimes, blogs like these do tend to have their little insidey things that can come off as mighty annoying to someone new at first. It happens.

          • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

            Mine are probably even worse than sucks.

          • Wm

            Thank you for a rational, fairly intelligent response. I run businesses and I comment once in a while and when I do, I make well thought out comments and they are generally met with the type of resistance the rivals swimming in shark infested waters. The trade proposal above was rather brilliant, but I agree like you said, the average fan takes into account 1/1000th of how or what to run a business. This is the extreme byproduct of too much MLB2013 video game playing, far too much fantasy baseball. Truth is, most fans couldn’t operate a lemonade stand and turn a profit, let alone understand the concept of valuing players.

            Thanks for saying this “It is not that YOUR trade proposal sucks.” I knew that, but just need to hear it. I encourage healthy debate. What I don’t like it to make a proposal, similar to one that some else made and then tell me mine sucks. From there it’s all downhill and there seems to be a certain pile of effect on this forum specifically when that happens.

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              It also helps to have a thick skin, and saying things like “The trade proposal above was rather brilliant” doesn’t ingratiate you anywhere, especially when you haven’t used any numbers to back up anything you’ve said.

              Is Paxton even available? Why would the Mariners want to trade a young, cost-controlled LHP who’s likely going to compete for a rotation spot this year for a 1 year OF rental?

            • Jorge Steinbrenner

              It’s all in fun.

              There are very intelligent fans on here and, yes, some of them are going to go right up to you and challenge you a bit. Roll with it.

            • Havok9120

              Oh wow.

              Your proposal is brilliant, and no possible counter argument is rational or takes reality into account. And the fact that you run a business (I’m naive and tend to take people at their word on the internet), something no one else on here might do, makes you a naturally better judge of baseball matters than the rest of the proles on here. After all, I’m sure your business is intricately connected with the baseball world and you have oodles of real-world experience with how franchises value their players, experience no one else on here could possibly have.

              You encourage healthy debate, except for all the times here your response to any kind of negative feedback has been frustrated ranting. And that time with all caps yelling about something you have no more evidence for than anyone who might disagree with you. And those other times when you’ve simply called the entire board irrational morons. Yeah. Healthy debate.

              And perhaps you got piled on for your trade proposal because several people don’t like your trade proposal.

            • I’m a looser and a trader baby so why don’t you kill me?

              Your trade proposal still sucks.

      • Wm

        and Ackley could play LF also for the Tigers or be a utility guy, whatever.

        • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

          Ackley’s bat can’t even play at 2B. And you want him in LF?

          • Wm

            Ugh. Forget it. You people on this forum are impossible.

            You guys are even more maddening than the ultra liberals commenting on politics on the NYTimes, and that’s one hell of a prize to take.

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              Thanks, Obama

            • Mr. Roth

              Perhaps the problem is you?

              Sometimes the asshole is the guy staring at you when you look in the mirror.

            • Havok9120

              So because we fail to see the wisdom of your proposal and immediately agree with you and everything you’ve said we are “impossible.”

              It’s a forum. Debates occur. You want us to agree with you? Convince us. Preferably with some sort of statistical evidence backing your argument. Just throwing things at the wall and proclaiming “this will work, and you’re all annoying” ain’t gonna get it done.

              • Wm

                Right. Debate occurs, indeed. By when two people say “hey, here is an idea/proposal” and the other guy says “yours sucks” when they are somewhat similar, that’s not debate.

                Also people seem to lack logic in most cases. People are casting off people like Wells and Ichiro. People talk like Ichiro is the worst player in baseball, when actually, he’s still one of the best defensive players in the game. People are like “cut him, send him to Yemen” “whatever, get him off this team now” and I wonder where in the hell this type of mentality is coming from?

                Ichiro will not be released. Probably less than a 5% chance he is traded and even then, the cost savings versus his defensive value, revenue generation is not worth it. Wells is free and until another option, while budgeting comes available that is also free or near the league minimum, consider Wells part of the team.

                Logically, you trade a player who has medium value, that likely will not resign and will certainly not receive a QO.

                Jeter is not moving to LF or 3rd base.

                • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                  Ichiro was the 26th best defensive outfielder in the game last year, according to fangraphs DRS. He was 27th in 2012.

                  That took me 15 seconds.

                  No one here is saying Ichiro is going to be traded or released. But none of us, and that has to include the Yankees, want him starting full time in either RF or LF.

                  • OldYanksFan

                    Can I please respond for Wm?
                    “People talk like Ichiro is the worst player in baseball, when actually, HE’S STILL ONE OF THE BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYERS IN THE GAME!”

                    So take that!

                    • Jorge Steinbrener

                      Jim just pulled a stat that says otherwise, and you’re still disagreeing?

                • Havok9120

                  I haven’t called for Ichiro’s release. I still think he’s a valuable player, if massively overpaid for what he is now. I’ve said this many times in the past. You’ve yet to say why you think he’s going to get a ton of playing time, however. People don’t like him because he’s not a starting caliber player anymore and the team used him as one last season.

                  People dismiss Wells because he looked cooked in all facets of the game last season, and his record indicates that that was not an isolated incident.

                  No one brought up Jeter, but keep producing straw men and I’m sure one will eventually be on-point.

                  You’re assuming no QO without providing any reasoning, let alone evidence. Assuming no resign I can get behind a little more.

  • camilo

    Remember, the TPSux

    revisiting the reds

    Gardner, ramirez/banuelos, +, $man magic for Phillips, Bailey, cash
    when Phillips waives ntc for opening negotiations, offer him either: 5mil + x to test FA (2013 payroll tax), 2yrs 34 mil, or no change to contract.
    cinc has room to offer, better P, latos long term ext. And save face with fans after bailey is traded.
    nyy: sori to the field, sign Morales to mash, esp at ys3. Lineup set, rotation shored(sp?) up

    disclaimer; no idea what Cincinnati can/not afford, assume cashman is the man, assume not having dusty baker makes them want to unload Phillips to the detriment of having a proven, solid pitcher

    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

      No no no no no no no no no

      No banuelos. Manny’s OUUURSS. He’s OURS! Our own…my…precious…

      • Jorge Steinbrenner

        NO PECKERHEAD OH DEE SWEET PRECCCCCIOUS

        *grabs Manny away*

        • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

          *Bites Manny off of Jorge’s finger*

          *Makes sure to avoid slippery precipices above enormous pools of lava*

          • Havok9120

            Surely there’s something going on at work that you two should be doing.

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              You’d think, wouldn’t you.

            • Jorge Steinbrenner

              It’s weird seeing that first name written on here. Not gon lie.

  • nycsportzfan

    What is going on with David Huff? I forgot all about him. He was really good to end the yr for us and always had potential. Is he gonna be back this yr? I hope so.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      Could wind up a victim of a numbers crunch depending on what other moves are coming. Could survive the cut. Who knows at this point.

    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

      He’s a nice “break glass in case of emergency” rotation guy, but I won’t lose a lot of sleep if he’s not back.