Dec
03

Passan: Yankees will not offer Robinson Cano $200M

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Via Jeff Passan: The Yankees are taking a hard line with Robinson Cano and will not push their contract offer up to $200M. The two sides met face-to-face several times last week and Robbie’s camp asked for a nine-year, $250-260M deal. “They are not going to go to $200M, period,” said a source to Passan while Mark Feinsand hears they remain “oceans apart.”

The offseason is still relatively young and Cano has yet to receive an offer from another team, at least as far as we know. That could change in an instant. The Nationals could make a push and I won’t believe the Dodgers are out of it until Cano signs his next contract. For now, the Yankees and their second baseman are locked in a high stakes game of hot stove chicken. At some point someone will cave — either the team will raise their offer or Cano will lower his demands. I don’t think either of those things will happen anytime soon.

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League
  • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

    I will go from a 4 to a 5 simply on the basis of 7/165ish if it happens.

    Not bidding against ourselves FTW.

  • Greg

    What this depends on in part is the Yankees’ sense of fans’ commitment to Cano. Yankees caved with Arod because of the new stadium. If the Yankees don’t believe that losing Cano will have any kind of a backlash (tickets, TV, etc). then stay firm at 7/161.

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      Well it’s not clear that he helped attendance or ratings in 2013, and yes I understand it’s obvious that he may have prevented both from being even worse than they were; I don’t happen to buy that. I don’t believe people go to watch Cano play.

      • jjyank

        *glances at Cano jersey hanging in the room*

        Speak for yourself. I sure do.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        They don’t go to watch him play but ppl are seriously under estimating his impact on the team.

        • Chris Z.

          I do.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            I’m sure ppl go to the stadium to watch him but I think when it gets compared to guys like Jeter and A-rod it gives fans the opportunity to say “Cano doesn’t put butts in the seats”

            Would it be fair to say he’s the third most popular player on the team now??

            • jjyank

              A-Rod is more popular than Cano is right now? I don’t buy that for a second.

              Comparing Cano to the Captain/face of the franchise/first ballot hall of famer and (once upon a time) a once in a generation type talent doesn’t mean that Cano can’t put butts in the seats.

              Some people may feel that way, but I sure don’t. My butt gets put in the seats so I can watch Cano’s gorgeous swing.

              • Ed

                Can is a great player. However, He is no Jeter. Jeter didn’t get that kind of money so why should Cano? He lacks hustle. He has great natural ability, but no heart. ARod or Pujois in their primes didn’t deserve their money and he is not at the same level as they were.

                • Need Pitching & Hitting

                  Jeter’s big contract started over a decade ago.

                  Inflation happens. What Jeter got over a decade ago has no relevance to what Cano is worth today.

                • jjyank

                  This stuff always amuses me. He has no heart? Why, because he doesn’t bust it down the line on a routine grounder? Stop pretending like you know what’s going on in the guy’s head.

                  And stop comparing him to Jeter. “He’s no Jeter” doesn’t mean that Cano isn’t a draw. Oh my goodness, he’s not as big of a draw as the team’s captain, 5 time world champion, first ballot hall of famer. What a bust.

                  • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                    Then stop assuming that he puts butts in seats – in general – because you claim that’s what he does for you. For some, the perceived lack of hustle matters.

                    Put another way, when I’m there with my kids, he’s not the first guy I tell my kids to watch. And likely never will be.

                    Also, if the FO agreed with you then wouldn’t they pay up?

                    • jjyank

                      Reading comprehension is fun.

                      I never, at any point, actually claimed that he DOES put butts in the seats. I did take issue with those that explicitly said that he doesn’t, because he puts my butt in the seats, and I know a ton of other people that feel the same way. So that statement is just straight up bullshit.

                      That’s great that you don’t tell your kids to watch the best player on the team. I would, if I had kids. Good for you.

                      And how do we know the FO won’t pay up? The winter meetings haven’t even happened yet. It’s almost as if this is your first offseason. Patience.

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      looser baby, you’re the one with reading comprehension issues.

                      “The obvious point is obvious, except to you perhaps.”

                      And to everyone else, which makes it not obvious.

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      Lulz. The obvious point is obvious, except to you perhaps. So I guess reading comp isn’t very fun for you.

                      Putting butts in seats is a broad term. Yours and some indeterminable handful of others butts doesn’t rate in a conversation about paying up for ticket sales and TV ratings, which is the context under discussion here. In case you missed it.

                    • jjyank

                      Lulz yourself. The Yankees had a ton of problems in 2013 that had nothing to do with Cano. People are pissed about the budget, injuries ravaged the team. How do you know Cano wasn’t the only thing keeping things afloat? Just because the stadium didn’t sell out every night to watch a team that, overall, plenty of people just found unlikeable, means very little. You have no evidence of the extent to which Cano does or does not “put butts in the seats”. Stop claiming otherwise.

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      I never said I had proof of any kind and have always posited it as my opinion.

                      Here are facts:
                      - ratings and attendance were down dramatically year over year (the only years that matter in this context)
                      - the team stunk, for many reasons
                      - Cano was by far the best player on the team (short of a brief stint wherein Soriano turned into a video game guy)

                      Add all those things up, I see nothing especially clear that tells me that he puts butts in seats. And so I believe he does not.

                      Add to that the fact that his perceived lack of hustle is something that is widely discussed in mainstream sports/news sites, and I think it’s clear that if the FO thought he’d pay for himself in tickets and ratings by going to $200mm, they would do so now.

                    • jjyank

                      ” I think it’s clear that if the FO thought he’d pay for himself in tickets and ratings by going to $200mm, they would do so now.”

                      It. Is. December. Third.

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      An opinion without evidence is baseless and has no reason for anyone to take it seriously.

                      “- ratings and attendance were down dramatically year over year (the only years that matter in this context)”

                      For the entire league.

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      If I think a hamburger is worth 8$, and I’m in a barter system, wouldn’t it be better if I could negotiate the hamburger down to $6 and have 2$ for fries?

                  • jsbrendog

                    but how are his post coitus gift baskets?

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      Not worth 8/200, apparently.

                    • Robinson Tilapia

                      Greasier and plantain-based.

                • The Big City of Dreams

                  For a player to go from unknown to best second baseball in baseball playing every game he has to have some kind of heart.

                • WhittakerWalt

                  Cano has a pretty fair chance of having a better career than Jeter.
                  TRUE STORY.

                  • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                    When the stats are all added up, sure. But the broad perception will never equal that reality. Ever. And *that* is why he doesn’t now and likely never will put butts in seats and eyes on televisions. May not be fair or logical, but it is what it is.

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      Too bad they don’t also love watching him run out the ground balls.

                    • Havok9120

                      Because you say so?

                    • jjyank

                      Oh stop. Cano does those things. Maybe not to you, and not to the extent that Jeter does, but he does on some level. I know too many Yankee fans that love watching Cano hit baseballs to accept your statement.

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      Good, lets start using YES and ESPN talking points. That’s a recipe for intelligent conversation.

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      No, not because I say so, but because it (Cano not busting it on every ball he hits – including hits btw, not just ground balls) is something that is widely discussed everywhere from this blog to espn to yes to radio to ….

                    • jjyank

                      And some of us realize that maybe that’s exactly the reason he plays in 159+ games a year.

                      If you don’t like it, fine. That’s your opinion. But it’s far from a fact. Cano draws plenty. Just not you, apparently.

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      What a preposterous statement. Just as I have no proof he doesn’t draw, you lack any meaningful proof that he does. Your jersey doesn’t count.

                      Frankly, even if his jersey were say, the second seller behind Jeter’s, which it may be, it wouldn’t change my opinion here, as really, who else’s is anyone going to buy? ARod’s? Maybe Mo, but no longer.

                      In any case, it’s foolish to get all huffy at my opinion yet act as if yours is something other than an opinion.

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      Except we’re using numbers and facts, which you are dismissing out of hand. You aren’t even using numbers. You’re just making shit up.

                    • jjyank

                      Well, like I said, I have a ton of friends who are Yankee fans. And they all love to watch Cano. I know a guy who drove up to NYC over the summer (I live in DC) specifically to try to seem Mo one more time AND because it might be the last time he could see Robbie as well.

                      Yes, this is all anecdotal, and yes, this is the internet so nobody will believe me, but these are the facts that I’m surrounded with. People who love to watch Cano hit baseballs. You telling me that you wouldn’t tell your kids to watch Cano at a game holds a lot less weight.

                  • RetroRob

                    I hope he does because that will be good for the Yankees (assuming he signs), but not sure how to quantify “pretty fair chance.” The road is going to get tougher for him now in his 30s, and that’s the part of the road where the greats are defined. He will have to continue to perform at a high level over the next eight/nine seasons.

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      It’ll almost assuredly require a move to 3B or RF as 2B is not a position that traditionally ages gracefully. He may be the exception that proves the rule. I certainly hope so as it’d be amazing to see him go out as a 2B eventually.

              • chris

                i think it was proven last year he can’t put butts in the seats or high ratings…attendance was down and so was YES ratings during a year where they were in the playoff hunt all year up until the final week and Cano was the main star/player on the team.

                • Need Pitching & Hitting

                  If Jeter or ARod were the star on a team surrounded by the likes of Vernon Wells, Chris Stewart, Lyle Overbay, Jayson Nix, Eduardo Nunez, etc, do you think the ratings and attendance wouldn’t also decline?
                  Not saying Cano’s as big a draw as them, but the attendance/ratings decline had little to do with Cano being the star instead of Jeter or ARod.

                  • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                    Bingo.

                  • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                    We’ll never know. What we do know is that by himself Cano couldn’t do it.

                    • Need Pitching & Hitting

                      And we know Derek Jeter in his prime, in the dynasty years, couldn’t do it.
                      Check out the Yankees attendance numbers pre-ARod and compare them to post-ARod.
                      The 2000 Yankees, coming off back to back WS wins, starring Derek Jeter (and many others) had a lower attendance than the 2013 Yankees, despite substantially lower ticket prices and a higher capacity stadium.

                    • Havok9120

                      Go look at the attendance in and just after the dynasty years and then come back and peddle this BS.

                      They drew THREE MILLION PEOPLE this season. With a lineup that, for much of the summer, was Cano and a bunch of nobodies. Top 5 attendance with that is pretty great, and you have no way of knowing how much credit to assign to Cano and how much to assign to Mo/Pettitte/anyone else.

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      What we have here is looser baby thinking “The only meaningful comp is the comp where I’m right”

                      Good way to debate, right there. Top notch, sir.

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      The only meaningful comp is year over year. And both attendance and ratings were down dramatically in that context. That our attendance was higher than anyone else’s doesn’t matter in that context.

                      And for the record, I was not the one who brought Jeter or any other single player into the conversation, nor have I commented on Jeter’s or any other player’s ability to put butts in seats. I merely contend that Cano by himself cannot.

                    • Havok9120

                      That’s crap. Year to year attendance and ratings are not the only meaningful point of discussion when talking about attendance. But hey, fine, I’ll play along with your cherry-picking and retort that attendance was down league wide this season and, who would have thunk it, they still drew three million with a poorly built team.

                    • jjyank

                      “I merely contend that Cano by himself cannot.”

                      Most players on this planet can’t do that. But people to go to see Cano. Maybe they don’t spend money on overpriced tickets to watch Cano and a band of nobodies, but that really doesn’t mean jack shit. He draws.

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      The Yanks drop in attendance and ratings outpaced the league wide rate drops.

                      Next.

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      Show your work.

                    • Robinson Tilapia

                      *starts “show your work!” chant*

                • jjyank

                  Now that’s a reach.

                • Havok9120

                  So, what, you blame the decline on him but the fact that we still broke three million in home attendance, top 5 in the MLB, despite the horrible state of the roster nets him no credit?

                  • The Big City of Dreams

                    Exactly.

                    He was one of the few players on the team all yr so he had to have been some kind of draw last season.

                  • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                    The only comp that matters is our attendance and ratings year over year. They were both down dramatically.

                    And to the extent that you want to point to the 3MM and say “hooray!” I’d sooner chalk it up to people wanting one last look at Mo and/or Andy than I would that they were there with any conviction for Cano.

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      The only comp that matters says you. Without any sort of evidence. mmmmkay.

                    • Havok9120

                      You have absolutely no way of knowing which had an impact. NONE. Trying to say that as if it is objective, quantifiable fact is nonsense, and if you’re unable to see to see that then it’s pretty clear that you’re just as incapable of being objective on this topic as a die hard Cano fanboy would be.

                      I’m done with this.

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      Nooooo don’t be done!

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      It’s obviously opinion. As is yours and as I’ve states repeatedly.

                      The Yanks drops in attendance and ratings outpaced the drops league wide.

                      3MM is lovely, but a disappointment and relatively weak in context.

                    • Havok9120

                      Fine, not done.

                      You aren’t stating an opinion. Your entire argument is “Cano does not put meat in the seats.” That is not opinion. You’re stating a fact. You have no evidence for this beyond your own view of Cano. Numerous people here have said that, for them, Cano is a draw. Some have said that this is true for their friends. That he is a draw for them makes your “fact” a false one.

                      And it’s disappointing in context? In the context of an offseason that saw us downgrade at several positions? In the context of a Spring Training that saw several of our stars get hurt? In the context of our ace completely sucking for the entire season? In the context of our two most well known players being hurt for most of the year? In the context of a bunch of guys nobody particularly liked getting a ton of playing time? In the context of the fanbase being pissed at ownership for very ostentatiously cutting payroll at a time when the League has more money than ever?

                      You honestly think, in THAT context, that #4 attendance in the MLB was DISAPPOINTING? Wut?

                    • Robinson Tilapia

                      Is this a preview of tomorrow’s FOTD?

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead
                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      Havok dear would you feel better if I began every sentence from here on out with “I believe” or “I am of the opinion that”?

              • The Big City of Dreams

                . My butt gets put in the seats so I can watch Cano’s gorgeous swing.

                ————–

                I hope many fans share the same belief you have. I feel like Cano’s status/impact has been taken for granted.

                • WhittakerWalt

                  It absolutely has. Yankee fans really don’t realize what we’ve got in Cano. He’s got the chance to be a legend, yet they act like he’s a dog.

                  • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                    Disagreeing (or questioning) that he puts butts in seats >< not appreciating his contributions on the field, let alone that he's a dog. Come on. That's a ridiculous leap.

                    I appreciate him for exactly what he is. I also recognize what he is not.

                    • WhittakerWalt

                      I didn’t say it was you. Fact is a lot of Yankee fans just don’t get the fact that Cano is a GREAT player.

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      I agree he is a great player. Maybe even once in a generation by the time he is done.

            • qwerty

              I think this has more to due with the lack of popular players on the team then it does with Cano. Joba was more popular in 2007 and 2008 than Cano ever was.

              • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                He was more popular in the way a seasonal beer is more popular than a longstanding favorite. Sure, it’s great a few times, and when it pops up you make sure to go buy a 12 pack, and everyone talks about it for a little while, but when push comes to shove, what’s the beer that ends up in your fridge on a regular basis?

                Actual beers not named to avoid beer debate.

                Which actually might be more fun than a “CANO DUZNT HUSLE!” debate.

                • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                  I’d really like to have a beer debate.

                  • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                    Anyone who mentions Natty Light in a positive light gets banned immediately.

                    • jjyank

                      +1

                    • Robinson Tilapia

                      Anyone who mentions it needs to go back to sucking on the titty.

                      #liveinmymomsbasement

                • Robinson Tilapia

                  Hey man, I like the Shiner Bock Christmas Beer, and Peak Organic Maple Collaboration is the greatest beer of all goddamn time. SEASONAL BEERZ FTW.

                  • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                    I actually had the Peak Organic Maple this year. It wasn’t my favorite, but I can appreciate it for what it was, and I’d try it again.

                    Never had the Shiner Bock Christmas.

                    The Sam Adams Cherry and Chocolate Bock is a whole lot of delicious, to stay mainstream.

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      Also, Troegs Mad Elf Ale is delicious.

                    • jjyank

                      It’s Decemeber (3rd, just in case Looser still doesn’t have a calander), so I’ll roll seasonal. Magic Hat Howl.

                    • Robinson Tilapia

                      As a maple syrup lover, Peak Organic Maple is the most authentically maple-tasting beer I’ve ever had.

                      I’m also a huge fan of the very heavy Southern Tier Creme Brulee Stout. Another one out this season.

                      Haven’t had a Sam Adams in years. Worth a shot.

                    • MannyGeee

                      Allagash Curieux.

                      Allagash Curieux, and its not particularly close.

                      Also, Fullers London Pride. An I’m out.

                      #dropsmic

                • qwerty

                  Nevertheless, everyone was always excited to see him pitch. How many are running to their televisions to see Cano AB?

        • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

          I did.

      • Havok9120

        You are incorrect. Even setting aside that he’s popular with the (huge) Latin American fanbase, he’s probably the second or third most popular player on the Yankees right now depending on where you stack CC.

        Is he a draw like Jeter? No. Jeter is Derek freaking Jeter. There isn’t a player in the game today that can draw like Jeter did at his height. That doesn’t mean Cano isn’t a draw…especially since the mood of pretty much the entire fanbase is that if we don’t resign him, we’re not going to be all that competitive next season. You think losing our single best player won’t affect attendance?

        • jjyank

          A thousand times, this.

          Why are we comparing him to Jeter anyway? What purpose does that have?

          • The Big City of Dreams

            Because when it comes to money some fans feel he doesn’t have the right to ask for what he wants. There are sections of the fan base that feel the Yankee first offer is too much lol.

            • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

              Well knowing what we know, it’s not hard to argue that the 7th year is too much. That’s for any player at his current age, let alone one who plays 2B, durable though he’s been.

              • Havok9120

                The market these last few years does not agree with you. Maybe that’s finally changed, but I won’t put any money on that.

                • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                  I’m not talking about what the market is. I was simply commenting on the idea that some feel the initial Yanks offer was too much. I think in years it is. He’ll get it obviously, if not more. But that doesn’t make it wise. The market, and whether it’s wise, are two extremely different things. The market for ARod was 10/$275 last time around.

                  • Havok9120

                    Fair enough. Didn’t catch your distinction.

          • RetroRob

            They’re comparing him to Jeter because that’s what they need to build their straw man.

            • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

              Who are they? Not me.

              • Havok9120

                It should be noted that, by your rationale, no dynasty Yankee has ever been a draw because they “couldn’t do it alone.”

                • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                  Huh? Never said that. Thanks for playing though.

                • bpdelia

                  Actually most research implies that no player is a draw. There is some that implies very very special starting pitchers can be. But teams are draws and more importantly winning or great teams. Most people don’t go to see a player. They go to see a team.

                  In basketball they may go to see a player because single NBA players can have huge impacts and usage rates around 20% and higher..

                  Nobody pays 100 bucks to see one guy bay four times and get a single and a walk.

                  Baseball doesn’t have a superstar effect. Teams draw not players.

                  Don mattingly was a massive star who for a few years was (wrongly) considered the best player in the American league. And the stadium was a ghost Town because the team wasn’t very good.

                  So cano, like all baseball players outside power strikeout starting pitchers are demonstrably and probably not significant factors on attendance or ratings.

        • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

          * and for the record I am okay with 7 years if it’s in the $165mm zone.

        • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

          I think it depends on what we do instead. If we sign the right mix of other FAs, make trades, get contributions from the farm, and, mostly, WIN, then no, I don’t think losing Cano will cause a drop in attendance.

          In an absolute vacuum? Perhaps. But if the FO agreed they’d pay up, wouldn’t they?

          • jjyank

            Again, because the FO hasn’t “paid up” on December 3rd means absolutely nothing.

          • Havok9120

            It’s the beginning of December.

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              Didn’t you hear? MLB moved opening day up to 12/4/2013 for the 2014 season.

              • MannyGeee

                Well, they wont have to play the World Series in the snow… so that’s something

            • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

              If they believed that signing him for say 8/200 – which they almost certainly could do at this point IMO – because doing so would pay for itself in ticket sales and ratings, they would.

              They have not.

              • jjyank

                You don’t know that. This is all baseless speculation on your part. They have a significant offer out to him, maybe for exactly the reason you just stated. Maybe Cano wants the market to develop more first. You’re pulling to much out of your ass right now.

              • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                The oversimplification going on with this line of thinking is just…my God. It’s full of stars!

              • Havok9120

                You’re assigning motive to actions without any corroborating evidence. It’s all speculation. It could just as easily be the case that they’re lowballing him in their own minds just to see if Cano would be dumb enough to jump at the first offer.

                You’re seeing what you want to see.

              • Robinson Tilapia

                I don’t agree. At all.

                They gain nothing right now from instantly going to 8/200.

                For one, there are no games on right now, and there is no one sitting at Yankee Stadium. What butts are in seats and why will matter when there’s an actual reason for butts to sit in seats.

                Two, I actually do feel the team holds the leverage right now. I think the Yanks have to raise their price right now a lot less than Robbie needs to lower his to get him. Playing their full hand doesn’t help that at all.

                This is why I hate contract negotiations. No one ever looks good while you’re going through the mud, and it’s all just going to be forgotten if and when he’s hittting cleanup next season.

                • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                  I think an awful lot of people are getting an awful lot of panties in an awful lot of bunches over nothing.

                  All this began when I responded to Greg, who wrote:

                  “What this depends on in part is the Yankees’ sense of fans’ commitment to Cano. Yankees caved with Arod because of the new stadium. If the Yankees don’t believe that losing Cano will have any kind of a backlash (tickets, TV, etc). then stay firm at 7/161.”

                  I extrapolated from that that going higher than 7/161 for the purposes of selling tickets and generating ratings was not a smart thing to do based upon my supposition that he does not, by himself, obviously do either of those two things IMO. He may. I don’t believe he does. Others disagree. That’s cool.

                  And btw I do believe that there may be other, actually valid reasons to go higher (preferably in dollars, not years) like winning, which by extension puts butts in seats. Moreso if plan $189mm is scrapped.

                  • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                    “I extrapolated from that that going higher than 7/161 for the purposes of selling tickets and generating ratings was not a smart thing to do based upon my supposition that he does not, by himself, obviously do either of those two things IMO. ”

                    But that’s not even true. If it were the end of free agency, then yes, we’d have to make the fairest offer that we had. But it’s not; so why should they offer what they think is fair if there’s a slight chance of getting him for cheaper?

                    I mean, Greg was wrong too. There are plenty of reasons to go above 7/161. None of us know what effect on tickets/ratings Cano’s salary will have. But it’s December 3rd, there’s still plenty of time to negotiate.

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      The offer we made (7/165ish apparently) is what the FO thinks he is worth in baseball and off field (tickets, ratings) performance, absent another bidder.

                      If another bidder becomes a reality then we will see both whether the Yanks see it differently, and/or whether they scrap $189mm.

                  • Robinson Tilapia

                    If you get through it, jjyank will give you an “I survived an RAB smackdown” t-shirt. They’re nice. They show off the pecs quite nicely.

                    • jjyank

                      You got the acronym wrong :P

                      But yes, I do have the shirt.

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      Lulz. You’d have to know me much better than assume I’m remotely affected by commenters in a place like this.

                    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                      Wow that had so many auto correct fails I can’t even remember what I tried to type. It wasn’t that! It was more…this doesn’t bother me in the least.

      • Mykey

        Who the hell else were you going to watch play in 2013?

  • your mom

    8 years/$200 million. Final offer.

    • Pinstriped Pinto

      I’ve always figured that this is about where’d they’d settle. The extra year is worth it to secure the player.

      And while Cano might not have tons of star power, he’s still a major draw in the sense that he’s providing 6+ wins on his own each year. People come to watch a good team that wins and contends. Cano will help more than any other player out there in this department.

  • mitch

    Saying they won’t go to $200mil isn’t exactly drawing a line in the sand. Even if some mystery team jumps in and makes a huge offer, is it really going to exceed that number?

  • Pseudoyanks

    Mmmmmm, Hot Stove Chicken.

    • MannyGeee

      Try it with the Green (Billy) Beane Casserole… its the way to go

      • MannyGeee

        Also, obligatory Austin Romaine comment…

  • Vern Sneaker

    I don’t see how this can go on into January. If we sign Beltran, Kuroda, and Tanaka, for example, where are the Cano $$? If we don’t sign one or more of them, then big holes still exist that require $$ to fill, particularly for SP that has gotten very expensive. Somebody’s got to blink soon.

  • MartinRanger

    Vern, as I think was mentioned earlier on this site, the Yankees must be betting on Rodriguez being suspended the entire year. That would free up more than enough salary to reel in Cano.

    It’s a tad risky, but I cannot see A-Rod playing a game in the majors next season. The commissioner’s office smells blood, and they are not going to let up on this one. And the player’s union sure as hell won’t put up much of a fight to save A-Rod’s skin.

    If he’s not suspended, I expect the Yankees to scrap plan 189 and try again next year.

  • Dr. TJ Eckelberg

    Good for the Yankees. People watch the Yankees to watch them win, and less and less for one player (Mo and Jeter not withstanding). Now, are the Yankees more likely to win with Cano? For the next few years, yes. However, it’s not like if they use that money to put a competitive team on the field in other ways that people aren’t going to watch.

    As for someone else coming in to bid, I have a hard time believing anyone thinks Cano is a ‘bargain’ at $200mm, and the only way a team is going to deviate from its own off season plan to sign Cano is if they see him as a bargain. Hell, I don’t even think he’s that much of a bargain at the Yankees stated price.

    • Eselquetodolosabe

      Finally, the good doctor has spoken ! I agree 100%. Anybody who’d argue that Cano is worth more than 23mm AAV over 7 years is insane (right good doctor ?). Let’s see; low 300′s hitter, high 20′s hr’s, and low 100′s rbi guy who’s a slick, above average fielder is worth north of 23mm AAV ? And I’m not even going to delve into base-running. Pass. Use the money else where. 7, 161mm is more than generous. As a fan, I tune-in to watch “good baseball”. I think NY can achieve that without Cano.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        I think NY can achieve that without Cano.

        ——————

        Until his replacement puts up inferior numbers and the bitching starts.

        • Pat D

          Immensely this.

    • RetroRob

      His value to teams will increase as more players come off the board.

    • Dan

      I agree. I’d rather see them work it out around the Yanks offer. But if they miss out on him, the may be able to lock up Choo, Infante, and Beltran for the same money (especially if he ultimately signs for $200m) and less years ($189m not withstanding).

      That would make the Yanks better and deeper this year. And would make them more flexible for years to come.

  • Scott

    “Sorta 200” remains likely – a deal that gives Cano his money but lets Hal say he didn’t go to 200, either: (1) $192m (i.e., 24m for 8 yrs) plus reachable incentives, and/or (b) having the 8th yr (the one that raises the value above $200m) depend on a reachable trigger (e.g., 300 games played in yrs 6-7).

    OR maybe the Yanks overlearned the A-Rod lesson as “never ever hit 200 again,” which would be a mistake. I’d rather spend $25m on Robby than on a combo of (a) $17m for McCann (likely a 2-WAR as a 30something catcher, not likely much better than whichever of Cervy/Romine/Murphy pans out best), (b) $6m for a mediocrity like Omar Infante, and (c) $2m for Brendan Ryan (whom I like, but if the Yankees-Cano gap is $2m/yr, I’d rather give that extra $2m for Ryan).

    Several mildly above/below-average talents is nowhere near as valuable as Cano, who gives you 6-8 wins singlehandedly.

  • http://none Ton Lon ton

    His ridiculous demands are not playing well. He’s a good player but maybe his ego is too big. He knows the 2007 Arod deal was a disaster. The team isn’t going there again.

  • TWTR

    They shouldn’t increase their current offer.

  • neaks

    this allows Jay Z et al to save a little face if they agree to something like $210-220M, while still being WAY below the $310M they initially talked about

    • TWTR

      It would probably enable them to achieve their original goal, since it’s probable that they knew that $300m was never going to happen.

      For a player entering his age 31 year old season, and with the experience of players of a similar age getting mega contracts, $200m is still too much.

  • Tom Merritt

    Lower the offer and just let him walk to whoever will take him!!!! Ridiculously over rated!!! Can not forget the pic of him in playoff year before last when NY was getting their brains beaten out by the Tigers, sitting in a lounge chair in the dugout with his feet kicked up and smiling. I don’t care what anyone says this guy does not have it upstairs, is not a competitor, and is not anyone to try to rebuild a ball club around. Just let him go!!!

    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

      Yeah! Teams can’t win world series with guys like him on the team! What a loser, he doesn’t care at all about the team! He’s lazy and has no baseball IQ!

      Oh wait, we’re not talking about ARod circa 2008?

    • jjyank

      Ugh, you are like, the worst kind of fan.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        There are many out there like him. The things I have read about Cano in the past few months has me thinking are we watching the same player.

        • jjyank

          Oh, I know he’s not alone. Doesn’t mean that I don’t think he’s a shitty fan though. There are unfortunately plenty of shitty fans out there.

          • Robinson Tilapia

            It’s an old-school mentality I just don’t subscribe to. He’s entitled it. It just adds nothing to the conversation. This is what we have the FAN for.

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              I don’t like the “he’s entitled to his opinion” line of thinking. Idiotic, closed-minded, racially-based opinions should be shouted down.

              Sure he can have his opinion, he also has the right to get yelled at for it.

              • Robinson Tilapia

                Of course. Everyone has the right to be a jackass.

                • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                  Or a Peckerhead, as it were.

              • Darren

                Where do you see anything race based in his comment?

                • Robinson Tilapia

                  Not saying there is, but I think most of us would agree that there’s a bigger tendency to portray atheletes of color in a certain manner.

    • TWTR

      If Cano is not a competitor, in order achieve what he has, he would have to be the most talented player in the history of sports, and he is not.

      He is really good. The only issue is the length of contract.

    • Mykey

      How can people have this point of view? Use him smiling or not running out every ground ball as evidence to conclude that Cano is not a competitor but totally ignore his development as a player as evidence to the contrary.

      If Cano weren’t competitive would he be one of the best players in the league? Would anybody? Ever?

  • Dicka24

    I’m happy to hear this, and hope the Yankees are serious about holding firm. As a business owner, it’s complete foolishness to bid against yourself. Call Cano’s bluff. I’d never go 8 years, and in all honesty, I wouldn’t even go 7 years. When a player is publically shooting for the highest dollar amount he can get, then his team has (and should) every right to negotiate in kind, and seek to pay as little it has to, for as short a term as is possible.

  • D

    Ok so the Yanks have reportedly initially offered Cano 7 years and $161M and have now stated they will not pay him $200M or more for a $39M gap between $161M and $200M.

    This tells me the Yanks might be willing to go halfway between 161 and 199 at $180.5M for 7 years or maybe a little more (7 years x $26M a year = $182M / $1.5M more.) $182M would be more than fair considering he’d have the highest annual salary of any MLB position player for the next three years and be tied with Pujols for it in 2017. He would be second in annual salary only to Verlander 2015-19 as Verlander makes $28M a year then. The contract would take him through age 39, guarantee that he’s a 16-year Yankee, and be the second biggest for a homegrown Yankee in years and money (7 years $180.5M or $182M vs. Jeter’s 10 year $189M deal.) It would also be bigger than the Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder contracts as well as the Teixiera contract. It’d be only $2M shy of Mauer’s extension ($184M) but with one less year.

    If I were the Yanks I’d hold at 7 years $161M though. Good enough for prime Sabathia initially (as I know he got $25M more tacked on for $186M total) who was a bigger reason why the 2009 Yankees won the World Series than you despite your great 2009, good enough for you. No sense in going over $161M if someone else isn’t and if someone goes to $175M is he really that money-hungry that he’ll sign elsewhere for $14M more when he could EASILY make $14M plus more than that in endorsements vs. what he’d make playing for Seattle, Texas, or whoever? I doubt it.

    What the Yanks should do is sign Infante for 3 years $8M a year $24M total then drop their offer to Cano from 7 years and $161M to 7 years and $140M, this way he AND Infante cost only $3M more than the initial offer to Cano and an average $12M a year each over the next 7 years.
    Either Infante is the new 2B and Cano signs elsewhere or Infante is the new 3B/insurance 2B (SS too assuming the Yanks keep Ryan a backup) and Cano remains a Yankee.

  • mitch

    In other news, Beltran reportedly has a 3/48 deal on the table. Really hope it’s not from the Yanks and they’re able to walk away at that cost.

    • D

      This is Beltran’s agent trying to drive up the price on Beltran to get that from the Yankees which they won’t.

      I bet that offer is from the Royals and if it is he can re-sign with a team who has finished over .500 only four seasons after the ’80s who is James Shields sucking or missing 10-15 starts to injury from sucking again. I don’t believe their 86-76 2013 for a second anymore than I believe the Yanks will finish 85-77 again. Their best record after the ’80s was only one win better than the Yanks worse record after 1992, think about that. That’s how bad the Royals have sucked overall.

      Two years $15M a year $15M mutual option $2M buyout so he makes $32M for two years and $45M for three is more than reasonable for a 36-year old who still doesn’t have a World Series ring. Why would Boston overpay for him when they just won a World Series and will definitely keep Ortiz after 2014? Does Beltran honestly think KC are World Series contenders with Shields a free agent after 2014? What if he signs elsewhere like the Yanks? I doubt it.

  • http://www.draftstreet.com/register.aspx?r=Jedile Jedile

    199m/8yrs final offer!!!11

    I am thinking 175/8yrs is good. Anyone else around this number?

    • mitch

      I think the AAV is too low. I think 7/175 is more likely.

    • D

      7 years $175M tops, but I think the Yanks are gonna hold at 7 and 161.

      I think that offer is the Yanks saying Cano is worth as much as Sabathia initially was but no more.

      I could see them offering Cano the EXACT same contract where he has an opt out clause after the third year which could benefit him in that if he has three typical Cano seasons 2014-16 he could get more money tacked on to his existing contract like Sabathia did or get more money than he’d make if he remained a Yankee for a shorter amount of time elsewhere.

  • Bubba

    Hooray for sanity!

  • Old Kinderhook

    If they blow past the $189M threshold this year, can they do the luxury tax reset next year instead? Or is this a one-time use-it-or-lose-it proposition?

    • jjyank

      There’s nothing preventing them from trying it another year, as far as I know.

      • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

        Iirc there’s a window (3 years?) but am not sure.

  • http://riveravenueblues Mississippi doc

    I love Cano. He is terrific player. Saying he is no Jeter makes about as much sense as saying Glavine was no Maddux. But these big contracts to 30+ players that last many years are not working out. Look at Pujols, Hamilton, Fielder, Gonzalez, Crawford, Santana, Reyes, Howard, Mauer, Wells, Rios, Rodriguez, Sabbathia, and Texiera. It is just very hard to maintain that level of excellence for a long time. How many of us think Cano will be a star 5 years from now?

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Five? Not outlandish at all to think he will be. Will he be at his peak? Probably not, but he certainly could still be a more than useful piece.

      Yes, he could have fallen off a cliff as well, but I don’t think one way or the other is completely certain. At all.

      • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

        Yeah I’d say Year 5 is likely the inflection point for meaningful decline and not at all the year I’m worried about! Year 7 could be pretty bad, and anything beyond that is that much more likely to be dreadful.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          I’ll take five very productive years out of eight, honestly.

          • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

            As would I, though is be (much) happier paying more per year for a total of 7 year. That may be an issue bc of plan $189mm of course.

            Speaking of which, how would you feel in retrospect about 2013 if $189mm was now scrapped? It sure seemed like we hamstrung ourselves last off season because of it.

            • Robinson Tilapia

              It’d have no bearing on 2013 for me. What worked then doesn’t necessarily have to work now. I expect them to re-evaluate the plan based on what the market for every player they want to bring in looks like.

              Actually, I’d feel WORSE if the rationale for continuing with the plan now was because it was what they set out to do.

              • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

                Fair. But I have to believe that 2013 would’ve gone differently, which is to say better, had it not been the plan from the start. For me, it would also send a not so good signal about the focus of ownership and the FO. Maybe focus isn’t the right word, but there’s something that wouldn’t sit well with me.

                Yes, smart organizations change course all the time. But I’d use your rationale – that they should constantly re-evaluate the market on an ongoing basis – to note that they probably should’ve abandoned the plan before it even started.

                • Robinson Tilapia

                  I don’t think this was the time of the course of this team’s history to even try this. No. Not when half that 189 is tied into some very big contracts, one likely to bring you nothing in return from here on out.

                  I also think it’s a bunch of bullshit for the richest franchise in sports to be worried about a luxury tax, but I won’t waste my breath on it.

  • Dan

    I agree with not going to $200m, but I don’t agree with not going to 8 years under any circumstances. They’re at 7/$160m, they should be willing to go to 8/$180 if it means locking this up and doing it with a lower contract AAV. They can also frontload the deal, which would have no bearing on the luxury tax, but would ensure Cano is making a ton of money in the next few years.

    So at 8/$180, the AAV is $22.5m (compared to 22.85m or more once they give him more money as part of the negotioation and try to stay at 7 years, say 7/$170m). They could have the contract pay an average of $30m per for the first 4 years. That makes Cano the highest paid player in baseball over that time on a per year basis (what he wants. Then have the contract average $15m per over the last 4 years. The Yanks get salary relief in his decline. And it’s all for a lower AAV then any 7 year contract.

  • BFDeal

    According to Wally at espn, the Mariners are willing to go 8/$200 on Cano. Of course, it’s Matthews, so take it for what it’s worth.

    • Bavarian Yankee

      I’m not sure if Cano would sign with a team like the Mariners. Sure, he’d get more money but I think they won’t be contenders for another 2-3 years. At least.

  • bkight13

    You would think that this is a Red Sox page with the amount of vitriol for Cano. He is an amazingly consistent, above average, offensive and defensive player. You don’t have to put him down because the owners have decided to come up with a ridiculous budget plan while still paying CC, Tex, ARod and Jeter.

    We may not agree on the number of years or the AAV, but Cano is worth a huge contract. He may not live up to the final couple years, but that is the cost you pay in today’s game. I do not want to lose him but I realize you can’t pay him anything he wants.

  • Pat D

    So we have all seen the report that the Mariners are about to jump into the Cano talks?

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Seattle knew.

      I’m going to punch Jack Z in the ovary one day.

      • mike

        Dear Jack….Please sign him to $200m, and watch him hit 18/82/.288 with no protection in the order…..look at Cano mid-summer when he was an island in the lineup and how pathetic his approach became. add a big ballpark, zero Latin culture and crappy weather….its a recipe for a fiasco

        He is a bully-hitter…when the team surrounds him he is a monster….when he is alone he is a pussy cat.

    • Havok9120

      Yup. I don’t quite know what to make of that.

      • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

        The comments section on mlbtr is somewhat interesting. A lot of debate about how much more $ it’d take for Cano to go to Seattle. I think if the difference is 7/175 vs 8/200 I could see him staying here. But if 8/200 is somewhere like LA then I think he’d leave.

        • Robinson Tilapia

          Never liked that comment section. A bunch of guys pulling for their own team, and everyone hates the same teams…..including mine.

          There used to be a guy there names YankFanSince78, or something like that, who tried to fight the good fight, but he was pretty much wasting his time.

  • LarryM Fl

    I read quickly most of the comments about Cano putting butts in the seats to years and salary. IMHO 7/175 should be the top number. I could care less if his pride will swell with being the top player or just below. It is a ton of money anyway you slice it.

    How about the Yankees holding firm on years and pay for once. Cano is in the top five of players in the game. There is no doubt. He hits and fields with the best of them in this era and as far back as I can remember. So he deserves to be paid. The Yankees have made a great strategic offer to Cano. Will some team venture past 200 and steal Cano. Who knows?

    Its not all about Cano being paid and happy. It is also about the Yankees getting their worth from the contract. At the end Cano will be rolled out their just like every other over paid and old player the Yankees have had over the years. Be smart Yankees.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    I can’t scroll through this anymore.

    *waves white flag*

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      RAB: you’re welcome for the page views ;)

  • PAOL

    GOOD RIDDANCE! Just wish they would have moved him back in July. Did anyone really think the 2013 team was built for a championship after the abysmal start to the Summer?

    The right trade could have set us up nicely and given us some really young pieces.

    His play will certainly be missed the next few years, but I’m not sweating the loss here. Years 5-8 would have been atrocious and we’ve seen the worst of these deals first hand.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Same ol’ shit.

    • jjyank

      What you say isn’t rational in the real world. Cano wasn’t getting traded in July. Nobdoy trades their best player 3 games out of a playoff spot, no matter how nice it sounds on an internet forum.

      • PAOL

        Can you honestly make a case that the Organization would not be in a better position now than if he was moved?

        You’re saying that if Tampa is 3-5 games out in July they still wouldn’t look to move Price?

        What would the Mets look like now if they pulled the trigger on Reyes a couple years back at the deadline?

        The assumption all along has been that Cano is chasing the dollar sign. The budget plan has been a topic of discussion for 2 years now and we were given no inclination this would change. Shortsightedness is why things are stale in the Bronx and I’d certainly feel better about the future with a Tex-esq haul. Too many holes to fill on this roster.

        How were you expecting to field a better team under $189M?

        • Robinson Tilapia

          This is the stupidest bunch of bullshit I’ve read in the…..past ten minutes or so.

          No, I do not expect that any team within striking distance of a playoff spot is/was/will going to/will/etc. trade their best player and, if that team does, I pray to God almighty that I am not a fan of that team.

          I’m not expecting to field a better team under $189M. I’m expecting to field a better team. BOOM SHACKALACKA YOU ARE DONE.

          • PAOL

            Strike a nerve? You sound Butt hurt crying over all these posts that do not share your similar sentiment.

            Although it may be the “stupidest bunch of bullshit” (nice use of stupidest!) to you, it appears judging by your astronomical amount of posts “you can’t deal with” that many Yankee fans will be happy to watch him go.

            Run along now child, go play outside.

            • Robinson Tilapia

              You sound like you’ve responded under about three other screen names…..today.

        • Pat D

          They weren’t going to get as great a package for Cano as you seem to think they would, mostly because the acquiring team wouldn’t be able to get a draft pick for not re-signing him this offseason. They weren’t going to get a massive haul for him under those circumstances.

          Nor will the Rays if they trade Price under those circumstances. They need to trade him sooner.

  • Pat D

    Further on the Mariners/Cano shit, here’s Andrew Marchand’s fairly rational take on the matter.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo.....-be-robbie

    The original story on ESPN cited “an industry source with knowledge of the negotiations” (which to me means someone taking a wild stab in the dark) as the Yankees having a less than 50-50 chance of re-signing Cano.

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Pretty much.

      I can’t deal with this shit.

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      Less than 50/50. Hmm. Well, we’ll soon see just how high the Yanks are willing to go, assuming the Seattle story is real or someone else comes out of the woodwork. I still fear Texas btw… Trade Profar for a pitching haul, and sign Cano.

  • Kevin

    What nobody is considering is that right now, every team has it’s own offseason plans; I think nobody really expected Robbie to be on the board in a big way. So the Yankees have all the leverage, in that their offer is high enough that I doubt anyone is just going to splurge on Cano on an impulse buy, and moreover I think everyone suspects that if they bid against the yankees the yankees will snap like a cheap umbrella in a windstorm. So why even bother figuring the numbers and making a bid when you know you won’t get him?

  • fin

    I laugh when I hear people say Cano has no heart. I’d like to see them try to play 160 MLB games year after year. He has plenty of heart. Still doesn’t change the fact that a contract between $170-200m for a 31yr old second baseman most likely ends up bad, just like a very large majority of those contracts do. At least the odds of it being bad immediately like Puljos and Hamilton are small. Should have a couple years of top production as he isn’t showing signs of decline yet, like those 2 were.

  • Ken

    Trade for Brandon Phillips (4years at $50 Million) and let Robbie walk. Use the extra money to field a competitive team……..

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joe Pawlikowski

      Phillips is a horrible choice. He’s had one pretty good year at the plate, and has been the definition of average every other year of his career. He’s 33 next year and is owed $50 mil through age 36.

      • Pat D

        But his contract wouldn’t last as long as Cano’s and that’s all that matters!

        • Robinson Tilapia

          This is all playing into my trap.

          Love,
          Jayson Nix

          • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

            It’s a tarp!