Open Thread: 2/27 Camp Notes



For the second straight day, the Pirates rode a late-inning homer to a Grapefruit League win over the Yankees. Here’s the box score for the 8-2 loss. The big story of the day was Derek Jeter, who went 0-for-2 with two ground ball outs and played five innings at shortstop, though slapping a tag on a base-stealer at second was the only defensive player he had to make. He did run down the line well, far better than he did at any time in MLB last season.

Brett Gardner singled and walked while Kelly Johnson clobbered a double off the wall in right-center field. I thought it was gone off the bat. John Ryan Murphy singled as well. David Phelps was the only no-doubt big leaguer to pitch and he allowed a solo homer to top prospect Gregory Polanco in two otherwise scoreless innings. He struck out four, all looking. Robert Coello let things get out of hand late and now owns a 135.00 ERA thanks to five runs in one-third of an inning. Yikes. Here’s the rest from Tampa.

  • The new expanded replay system will be available to the Yankees for their games on March 6th, 8th, 12th, 13th, 17th, 22nd, and 29th. Joe Girardi said he intends to practice as much as possible. [Sweeny Murti]
  • There was a very light workout before the game. Vidal Nuno and Matt Thornton threw bullpen sessions and just about everyone took batting practice. That’s it. [Chad Jennings]
  • Eduardo Nunez is already back with the team. Turns out he was scratched from yesterday’s game because of food poisoning, not the flu. He’s slated to play in tomorrow’s game. [Erik Boland]
  • Francisco Rondon will miss a few weeks with a shoulder problem. Jose Ramirez had two MRIs (back and oblique) but results aren’t available yet. Still no update on Tyler Austin‘s wrist. [Jennings]
  • Brian McCann, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Carlos Beltran are all on the travel roster for tomorrow’s game. New guys drew the short straw, I guess. [Mark Feinsand]
  • Non-Player Injury Update: During the broadcast of today’s game, Meredith Marakovits said she had a plate and six screws put in her ankle after an ice skating mishap over the winter. Ouch.

Here is your open thread for the night. This afternoon’s game will be replayed on both YES (7pm ET) and MLB Network (9pm ET), if you missed it. All five of the local hockey and basketball teams are playing as well, so lots of sports on the ol’ idiot box tonight. Talk about anything and everything right here.

  • Darren

    Angel George is PISSED! 0-2? To the Pirates??!!!!

    Fire Billy!

    • KeithK

      We are DOOMED!!!!

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      Please don’t remind me as to how he’d actually take exhibition records seriously. :)

    • Bats

      LOL…he probably did up there. *points to sky*

  • This Year

    Anyone know why M Montgomery did not pitch as scheduled today?

  • forensic

    So, Robert Coello, you could probably hold off on house hunting in NY…

  • BigLoving

    Tried to listen to the game today during work…I couldn’t even make it half an inning. Someone please tell me how Sterling and Waldman are the voice of the greatest franchise in America?

    • Tanakapalooza Floozy

      Nails on a chalkboard. Preposterously bad.

  • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

    Another reason why ice skating is stupid.

  • CONservative governMENt

    I did a Google search for ‘Meredith Markovits’, ‘screws’ and ‘put in her’ and that update came up.

    • CONservative governMENt

      Yesterday it got a completely different top result.

    • vicki


  • Wicomico Pinstripes

    Has anybody else read DC’s: Another Way of Explaining Mike Trout’s $50 Million Evaluation?

    It’s quite interesting. I’m not sure I’m ready to believe one player is worth that much, but if somebody is going to be valued that highly, it’s certainly Mr. Trout.

    • Mister D

      I don’t think you need to accept the number itself, just that baseball is more of a bell curve than the actual salaries would indicate. The best players are worth even more than they get and a lot of veterans get paid too much for what they actually provide without people noticing.

      Also, its a lot of fun to speculate on what Trout declared a UFA tomorrow would get. Half a billion isn’t out of the question if he’s looking for term.

      • I’m One

        “The best players are worth even more than they get and a lot of veterans get paid too much for what they actually provide without people noticing.”

        If you’re looking at value strictly in terms of on-field production, then yes, I agree. However, certain players are worth more than just what they provide on the field. Trout isn’t there yet, but can certainly get there if he maintains a good image and continues to produce.

        While veterans like Jeter and (formerly) A-Rod won’t live up to what they’re being paid in their declining years, they can still bring in a lot of money to the team towards the end of their careers.

        • I’m One

          I will always look at baseball (all professional sports, really) as entertainment. While winning is important, there’s a lot more to the value of a player than his on-field production.

    • lightSABR

      I think you’re right to be skeptical. I think even if he’s worth that much healthy, that’s a lot of money to sink into an asset that’s always just one bad injury away from worthless.

    • nycsportzfan

      Your right, NO ones worth that much $$$. Its stupid. Then again, in a day and age, guys like Phil Hughes who completely sucks, gets 24million, its excepted. It’ll never end.

      • nycsportzfan

        Speaking of Phil Hughes, I watched his introduction to the Twins, and it really didn’t sound like GM Terry Ryan was behind the signing. He went outta his way to mention “all the work was done by so and so” and not himself, and then mentioned Hughes struggles more then once. Obviously he said good things as well, but I just got the vibe Terry Ryan was against this deal.

      • lightSABR

        I haven’t beat this dead horse in a while, so… time to quote my research from an earlier post:

        Here are Phil’s home/away splits for 2013.

        Home: 6.32 ERA, 4.82 FIP.
        Away: 3.88 ERA, 4.12 FIP.

        Here are his career home/away splits.

        Home: 4.96 ERA, 4.80 FIP.
        Away: 4.10 ERA, 3.78 FIP.

        The message of these numbers is not “loser who has no business pitching in the big leagues.” It’s “guy who desperately needs a change of scenery.” If you were some team other than the Yankees, wouldn’t you pay $24 million over three years for a pitcher who’s going to give you a 4.1 FIP during the 97% of his starts that aren’t at Yankee Stadium?

        • vicki

          not only will he kill it for minny, but i’ll be happy for him when he does.

          • lightSABR

            Me, too, during almost all of his starts. :) I’m definitely looking forward to his fly ball tendencies in Yankee Stadium being on our side once a season or so.

        • Tom

          wouldn’t you pay $24 million over three years for a pitcher who’s going to give you a 4.1 FIP during the 97% of his starts that aren’t at Yankee Stadium?

          Nope, though that’s mainly because that 4.1 FIP is being misunderstood and misapplied. Road stats are not a proxy for talent level.

          1) 2013 is a poor sample size (less than 70 innings) and if you drill even deeper he had two interleague starts at Citi and at SD (no DH + great parks), he had a bunch of road starts in fairly extreme pitcher parks – SEA, Oak, TB, Min. And at the end of the year he was doing the tandem thing with a couple of road starts.

          2) The career #’s you are quoting include his relief work.

          3) If you want to isolate park effects, you need to either look at an adjusted FIP or look at xFIP

          Career xFIP on the road 4.35. Career xFIP at home 4.28 (since this is looking at FB rate and not HRs, they should be roughly the same). This however also includes relief work. His career xFIP as a starter is 4.36 (and it’s 4.46 over the last 3 years so it’s not like he’s trending one way or the other).

          So the question is not whether you would pay 24mil to a a guy you incorrectly paint as a 4.1ish ERA starter, it’s would you pay that much for a 4.4ish ERA stater. When you couple that with a pitcher who has never thrown 200 innings in his career and has only passed the 150inning mark twice? No I wouldn’t make that deal.

          It might be time to stop quoting that research, or at the very least update it.

          • J-S

            But why will it be different this year ? Hughes won’t pitch in Seatle, Oakland, Minnesota and TB ? He won’t be pitching in interleague gameswith no DH ?

            The Twins signed a 3,88 ERA pitcher with a 4,1 FIP, and they will clearly get the same thing they signed for, because he will clearly pitch under the same conditions he pitched for those stats…

            • nycsportzfan

              You don’t know how hes gonna pitch in Minny with a full seasons innings there. You can’t gauge how hes gonna pitch in Minny based on what, 5or6 starts hes made there in his career? I’d be shocked if he has one good yr in that 3yr deal. Hes not a good pitcher. I don’t think he has the desire to be consistently good to be honest.

        • nycsportzfan

          I don’t trust em. Sure, hes had his moments, but hes never been anyone you can really rely on. He just so happened to pitch at Yankee Stadium more then other stadiums. I’d be willing to bet, even in spite of his so called being a fly ball pitcher, that he gets rocked at Minny, through the course of this deal. The guy barley has a secondary pitch. His fastball is a freaking straight line. Thats why he gets hit hard.

          No way would I pay 24million for anyone and try and convince myself it was a stadium or just keep digging till I find the stat I wanna see. He was 4-14 with a ERA over 5!!lol I repeat, 4-14 with ERA over 5 in the prime of his career.lol

          His avg season over 162games is 12-11 4.54ERA 10.4hits per 9

          I can’t wait till the Yanks get to finally take aim at that straight fastball!

          • nycsportzfan

            Speaking of his secondary stuff. Whatever happened to Hughes Curveball? The guy had the makings of a great Curve coming up the ladder, now hes got nothing for a arsenal.

          • Tanakapalooza Floozy

            I love barley.

    • Jarrod

      When you consider other premium players salaries, their age and their production, I think Trout is definitely “worth” somewhere close to $50mil.

      In saying that, I think it is clear that most of the other premium players are overpaid.

  • Bobby

    Some “Mets community” website named Amazin’ Avenue made the NYT crossword today. I think it’s high time RAB makes an appearance.

    • vicki

      that would delight me. but shortz knows his audience are national, and many more people are familiar with the mets’ nickname and could infer “amazin” than would know river avenue runs alongside the stadium.

    • Cool Lester Smooth

      They’re SB Nation!

      That’s where I go for my Eagles and MiLB fix.

  • nycsportzfan

    Is Matt Thornton hurt or has he just not pitched yet? I also ask because I haven’t heard much. Thornton was a guy I wanted early on in FA’cy.

    • forensic

      He just hasn’t pitched yet. He’s an old, veteran LOOGY. He’ll probably be ready for the season after only about 7 batters in ST.

      • nycsportzfan


  • nycsportzfan

    I’m glad that the 1-10 grading scale for the Yank Org that is on this site is starting to trend upwards. I’ve voted 8 a bunch of times in a row, and I feel like its gradually getting a higher pct of people voting that way.

    This team lost Cano, no doubt, but has added Brian Roberts, Matt Thornton, Carlos Beltran, Tanaka, Jacoby Ellsbury, Brian McCann,Kelly Johnson, and resigned Hiroki Kuroda. Think about that for a second.

    This was also a team that battled almost into the postseason with a terrible CC Sabathia(can only be better for him), no Mark Texiera, no Derek Jeter, no Frankie Cervelli, and pretty much no chance of Michael Pineda pitching in bigs. This teams gonna make the postseason, i’ll gurantee that.

    • nycsportzfan

      Sorry for the rant, just got thinking about this season and got a over whelming feeling of happiness, and needed to express it.lol

    • lightSABR

      Depending on the formula you use, last year’s Yankees should have won between 71 and 79 games, with the better formulas saying it’s closer to 71. See http://www.baseballprospectus......_2013.html

      Unless they get lucky again, we’re probably looking at a team that is much better than last year’s but won’t win many more games.

      But what the heck. It’s spring training. World Series, here we come! Sizemore, lead the way.

      • stuckey

        The ‘better’ formula was the furthest away from aligning with the actual result?

        How are we defining ‘better’ in this case?

      • nycsportzfan

        Thanks for the info. But, I have no clue what i’m looking at.lol Sorry. But anyhow, I woulden’t call having are most expensive pitcher and ACE of the staff having his worst season ever, probably or at least for a very long time, lucky. I can easily see him alone accounting for a few more wins himself this yr. Also, I believe Nova’s the real deal, and is gonna have a big yr. The guy has 3pitches and throws in the upper 90′s and looks the part with big strong frame. He could easily win 15games this yr. I don’t think that would be luck either, just development. I also am a believer in Tanakas talents. What if hes a 15game winner? Kuroda can easily win 12-16 games, and you got Pineda, with any “luck” could be a impact pitcher..etc My point is, this team has a ton of upside and a few are bound to hit on it. Add in the other guys who if healthy are good, end of story, and you got a beastly team.

        Obviously, if injuries start piling up again , were screwed. I’m trying to stay optomistic that we paid a dear price with injuries last yr, we’ll be spared alittle this yr.lol

    • Wheels

      Wish I could be as optimistic as your ‘can only be better for CC’ musing. The weight loss regimen has the smell of desperation to it. We shall see…

      • nycsportzfan

        Well, hes done enough in his career to earn my optimism. Hes only 33yrs old, and coming off about 10 straight solid to great seasons in a row. Even in his worst season last yr, he won 15games. Hes in tremendous shape as well. If you can’t be optimistic about CC, then who can you be?

    • Tanakapalooza Floozy

      Sorry, but no one changes their vote based on yours, mine, or anyone else’s.

  • forensic

    I know there’s still plenty of time left in ST, so it’s not that big a deal, but it just seems weird to me that they didn’t try to line up McCann to play on Saturday. Just seems very convenient that they could’ve had him start and catch all of the big three starters in one 5-inning appearance, just to get together with them early on. Now, it’ll be almost another week before seeing any of them again.

    • vicki

      surely he’s catching their bullpens and live bp, but selfishly i want to start to scout his relationships. handling a staff is supposed to be one of his intangibles.

      • Cool Lester Smooth

        Then there’s his other biggest intangible:

        Trying to get into fistfights with 20 year old boys who take too long rounding the bases after their first career HR.

        • vicki

          think of it as a pendulum swing away from the equilibrium point of extreme passiveness we’ve rested at recently.

        • Tanakapalooza Floozy

          Now we’re cookin with fire!

    • lightSABR

      Yeah. Seems like maybe Rothschild and Long didn’t talk to each other on that one.

      But what do I know. Maybe Rothschild thinks the pitchers aren’t in good enough form yet for it to matter whether McCann catches them.

      On an unrelated note, I’m really looking forward to seeing Sabathia pitch. Well, and Tanaka, of course. But fingers crossed that CC can put it all back together.

  • 461deep

    Team could win 88 games this year tops due to age, lack of depth, & so so defense. Pitching looks good with closer a ? but Robertson should do well. Offense will improve. AL East may be more competitive with Jays & Orioles seemingly improved. Rays always good & Red Sox may slip a little but still be good. If they stay healthy, Bautista, Reyes & 3rd BSM (name lost @ moment) with a little better pitching the Jays should avoid being doormats for the Yankees and to a lessor extent Red Sox again this year. With improved pitching & added power, smart manager, Orioles could win division in a dog fight with other teams.

    • TWTR

      I’ll take the over.

      • Tanakapalooza Floozy

        Under, all day long.

    • vicki

      “3rd BSM (name lost @ moment)”

      i wish i could forget. there is noone i want to fail more than that psycho redneck brett lawrie.

      • forensic

        Agreed with you on hating Lawrie. For some reason, I thought he might’ve been thinking of Encarnacion though, as he’s a much better player than Lawrie at this point.

        • vicki

          i bet you’re right, and edwin is terrifying. he’s just not a third baseman anymore.

    • forensic

      You can’t really use ‘lack of depth’ against the Yankees and then use ‘if they stay healthy’ for the Jays. Both teams are in the same boat so it should really be the same rationale for both, depending on which way you choose to lean.

      And the Yankees IF defense will likely be bad, but at least they should be very good in the OF.

      And personally, I don’t really see the improvements for the Jays and O’s, but I guess some of that is debateable.

    • nycsportzfan

      I think they’ll win more then that just based on the starting staff. They also got a better bench with Ichiro, Cervelli, and Br Ryan all being there. Ichiro might not be good fulltimer anymore, but I think he’ll make a great spot starter, pinch runner, pinch hitter, defense replacement.etc Ryan is as good as it gets defensively and Cervelli can both hit and has gotten better at defense in my opinion, and has speed for a catcher. The lineup 1-9 dosen’t have a auto out in there. Robertson’s a beast. Thorntons a proven loogy, and Kelleys a solid vet. The bullpen might not be a major strength, but there is some potential with guys like Cabral and Betances. The only weakness is if we are injury prone like last yr, which was ridiculous. If this team stays fairly healthy, they are a 90plus win team all day.

      • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

        The starting staphph is definitely an improvement on last year. I definitely agree, Ichiro is going to be a great late inning dephensive replacement on this team.

    • jjyank

      “Team could win 88 games this year tops”

      Nice crystal ball you got there. Seasons over guys, we can go home. Yanks only won 88.

      • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

        People have the shortest of short term memories. Would love to see how many people predicted 90+ for boston last year.

        • jjyank

          I just hate it when people talk in absolutes before the season even starts. They play the games for a reason. You can’t say a team will or will not win a certain amount of games (unless maybe we’re talking about the Astros or something). You’re just pulling a number out of your ass and claiming they won’t pass that ass-number. There are a shit ton of variables with this team.

          Baseball is back. Let’s just try to enjoy that and see how many games they can win instead of proclaiming for all the internet to see that there’s no way they can surpass your ass-number.

          • Jorge Steinbrenner

            Enjoyment?! This isn’t about enjoyment. It’s about being right and analysis and whose analysis is right. Did you know that I was wrong about something in February 2012, and that Mike was wrong at 3:47 PM on 3/15/11? You can’t trust our analysis. Always go with the guy predicting doom.


            • NYY

              Realists got it right last year while you and your (unicorns and butterflies) buddies got it DEAD WRONG!!


              • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                Feeding the trolls, but…how, exactly?

                We were in contention with 13 games left. The “realists” never, ever, at all, in any context, predicted that.

                And congratulations! I hope you’re happy that you were right about us missing the playoffs.

              • Jorge Steinbrenner

                If we want to talk “right” and “wrong,” read the archives, since I fucking nailed it.

          • Jorge Steinbrenner

            I want them to do well. I understand they may not and am more than open to that. If given the choice, and thank god I have it, I’m going to enjoy talking about how to make this work more than how it’s going to fall apart.

            If it falls apart, like with everything, I will try to focus on something I can enjoy. I am a Yankee fan. There is no other choice for me.

            • Tanakapalooza Floozy

              Pollyanna as usual!

              • Tanakapalooza Floozy

                But at least you own it!

                For the record, I root, and I root hard (TWSS), revel in the success and glory, and am anywhere from bummed to devastated by the failures.

                But this team has 85-88 wins written all over it.

                • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                  There’s a huge difference between “This team will probably win 85-88 games”, which is a good discussion point, and “this team can’t win more than 88 games”, which I think you would agree is silly to say.

                  • jjyank

                    Yup. That’s my point. Personally, I don’t bother assigning a win total to a team in February, just because there are so many variables that you are likely to be wrong no matter what number you settle with.

                    I don’t have a problem with people to think this team can win a certain amount of games. That’s your opinion, and you’re entitled to think that.

                    I do have a problem with those who speak in absolutes. The people who come on here and start yelling about how there’s no way this team can win X amount of games. That’s silly. There are plenty of real world scenarios in which the Yankees can win more than 88 games. Will they? Well, that’s why they actually take the field. We’ll see.

                    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

                      I mean, even at the extreme edges, it counts out the possibility that the other 4 AL East teams are incredibly unlucky with injuries this year, and the Yankees get a bunch of 2nd half cakewalk games. Is that likely? Of course not. But impossible? Also of course not.

                    • jjyank

                      Also, how many of the teams in our division really improved? Toronto, Baltimore (unless Ubaldo is really good), and Tampa Bay pretty much just held even, unless I’m forgetting something. Boston got weaker.

                    • Tanakapalooza Floozy

                      The funny thing about the AL East is that you could convince me that the division winner this year will have an astonishingly low number of wins.

                  • Tanakapalooza Floozy

                    Yes I agree that is silly to say. I definitely don’t subscribe to absolutes. How’s that for paradoxical?

            • NYY

              Actually you’re a Marlins fan, so save the ride or die bullshit.

        • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod


          Bingo to everything jjyank says above also.

          This is why I hate things like Pythagorean record. I understand the idea behind it, but YCPBS. There’s so many variables and weird things that can and will happen throughout the course of the season I just find it silly to say, “well, they only should have won 71 games.” They play the games for a reason, dammit!

          *I know Pythag. is just another tool of trying to quantify how lucky a team gets and the math is sound, I’m just not a fan and don’t think it conveys much real value

          • jjyank

            Agreed regarding Pythagorean records. It’s a fun tool for discussing how lucky/unlucky a team was in the past, but it means absolutely nothing for the future. I’ve seen people say things like “well they weren’t really an 85 win team last year, so they probably didn’t improve much for this year”. I don’t buy that. The Yanks out performed their Pythag record last year, yes, but that means nothing for 2014.

            Just play the games and see what happens. I don’t even understand how someone who says that there’s just no way they crack 88 wins can enjoy the season. If you really believe that, why bother watching?

            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              Pythag literally accounts for zero part of roster turnover. Anyone think this year’s team looks like last years? Anyone?

              Plus, using it as one piece of the puzzle is fine. But there is always, always going to be a percentage of unpredictability to baseball, which makes “Peak” and “Valley” win predictions either so wide as to be meaningless, or flat out wrong.

              • Tanakapalooza Floozy

                Well, there are plenty of other stats to (try to) account for roster turnover, WAR among them.

                I get your point, but it’s pretty clear that in 2013 we outperformed our peripherals.

            • Tanakapalooza Floozy

              That’s an odd pov. If they outperform (low) expectations, that’s good. If they perform to (low) expectations that’s also “good” in that it’s not overly disappointing.

              *Hoping* they win more than 88 – as I do – is an entirely different matter than expecting that they can or will do so.

              • jjyank

                Well first of all, I never said what I expected. I don’t expect anything, really.

                And the comment you replied to was in reference to the original poster, who said “Team could win 88 games this year tops”. That’s assigning an absolute ceiling to the team’s win total, and that’s just stupid.

                Thinking the team could win 88 games and hoping for more is fine. I have no issue with that. It’s the people who are just a bunch of negative nancys and put a ceiling on the win total that bother me.

                And to be clear, I’m speaking generally here. 461deep’s comment is just one of many I’ve read on here over the last few months.

                • Tanakapalooza Floozy

                  Copy that. I’d not traced it back to the absolute nature of the comment.

  • Tanakapalooza Floozy

    Food poisoning! Wow! I guess that new cafeteria is really working out! Good thing we made all those really substantive changes to the system!

    Also, more !!!!!

  • 461deep

    88 wins is a good but not great year. Okay I’ll apologize for being blunt and using an absolute. But I gave my reasons right or wrong. Team will be better this year but age is a serious problem when no starter is under 30 and 3 are past 37. This is a sports board where we offer pro & cons based on our personal analysis. It is not Sesame Street. I know many predictions turn out wrong and I’ve had my share of them. Just like the Yankees who made acquisitions that should improve them, so have the Jays and Orioles it seems to me. Thank you Vicky for Bret Lawrie note.