Jul
10

Thoughts following Masahiro Tanaka’s injury

By
(Jason Miller/Getty)

(Jason Miller/Getty)

The Yankees were dealt a pretty significant blow yesterday, when what they called elbow inflammation landed Masahiro Tanaka on the 15-day disabled list. He returned to New York for an MRI and will soon travel to see team doctor Dr. Ahmad, who is currently in Seattle for a conference. Even though the team does not have a full diagnosis, Joe Girardi indicated to reporters the situation was serious enough to warrant a DL stint with or without the upcoming All-Star break. Argh. Here are some scattered thoughts.

1. Everyone is thinking it, so let’s just come out and say it: the prospect of losing Tanaka to Tommy John surgery is terrifying. (There have been so many Tommy John surgeries this year that I don’t know how someone could not think about it.) The timing of the procedure would especially suck — Tanaka would miss the rest of the season and at least the first half of next season. Considering how prone the Yankees are to setbacks the Yankees would likely be conservative during his rehab, he might not return until next August or September. I’m getting way ahead of myself here, but like I said, it’s hard not to fear the worst whenever a pitcher goes down with an elbow injury these days. My fingers are crossed and I am really hoping for the best. Things will be a little tense until Ahmad gets a chance to look at Tanaka.

2. The Yankees have not yet announced who will start in place of Tanaka on Sunday — the 15-day DL stint means he will also miss at least one start after the All-Star break, but they can figure that during the break next week — and it seems like Chase Whitley will be the guy unless he is needed out of the bullpen again at some point between now and then. The Yankees can’t recall Bruce Billings because of the ten-day rule — they used Tanaka’s injury to call up Zoilo Almonte, so they can’t use that to bring Billings back early — and right now Triple-A Scranton’s scheduled starter for Sunday is TBA due to a recent rainout and subsequent doubleheader. It might just be a bullpen game the day before the All-Star break. Two or three innings from Whitley, two or three innings from David Huff, two innings from Adam Warren, etc. Yikes. This team needs the four-day break in the worst way right now.

3. If Tanaka does have to miss an extended period of time for whatever reason, the Yankees will have to consider selling at the trade deadline more seriously than at any point in the last, I dunno, 20 years or so. Or at least consider not buying. That might be the Yankees’ version of selling — not doing anything and standing pat. They are 13-5 in games started by Tanaka and 33-39 in games started by everyone else, and at some point the injuries become too much to overcome. That’s what happened last year. They’ve lost four-fifths of their Opening Day rotation to injury (at least three to long-term injury) and there are too many underperforming everyday players in the lineup to compensate. The Yankees are not a move or two away from serious contention even with Tanaka. Remove him from the equation and it’s damn near impossible. Make another small Brandon McCarthy for nothing to soak up some innings and save the bullpen trade, but give up something of value? No way. The organization prides itself on contending every single year and I can’t imagine throwing in the towel on 2014 would be easy after spending all that money over the winter, but losing Tanaka for an extended period of time would be the straw that breaks the 2014 Yankees camel’s back.

(Hannah Foslien/Getty)

(Hannah Foslien/Getty)2.32

4. Now, in the unprecedented event that the Yankees do decide to sell before the deadline, who exactly can they market? David Robertson for certain since he’s due to become a free agent and literally every team could use another shutdown reliever. The Tigers, Dodgers, Angels, Braves, Giants, and possibly the Athletics would all have interest in Robertson, at the very least. I’m sure they would have no trouble finding a team willing to take Shawn Kelley off their hands too. Hiroki Kuroda has a full no-trade clause but might be willing to waive it for one of the two Los Angeles teams since his family still lives there. Brett Gardner would fetch a nice return but his contract makes him worth keeping around. Hard to see a team giving up enough to make trading him worth it. Other than those three, there’s not much to offer. Brian Roberts and Ichiro Suzuki have no trade value, same with Brendan Ryan. Maybe a team would be willing to give up a Grade-C prospect for Kelly Johnson or Frankie Cervelli, but I doubt it. Point is, even if the Yankees do decide to sell at the deadline, their most marketable pieces are a rental reliever and a rental starter. The cupboard is pretty bare.

5. Without Tanaka, these Yankees are about a two out of ten on the watchability scale. That is true regardless of whether he misses the minimum 15 days or something longer. His starts along with Robertson and Dellin Betances innings are pretty much the only time I get excited to watch this team. That’s just my opinion. I mean, yeah both Gardner and Jacoby Ellsbury have been awesome, but they aren’t must-see television. The Yankees in general are a very boring bunch, mostly because they struggle to score and have no exciting young position players in the lineup everyday. Remember when we were trying to convince ourselves Yangervis Solarte was a guy? Yikes. You’re welcome to feel differently and I hope you do, but man, to me this is the most boring and uninteresting Yankees team of the last 20 years or so. Maybe I’m just a grouch.

Categories : Open Thread
  • Rob L

    last year’s team was even more boring. Vernon Wells and Chris Stewart anyone? unless you count all the A-Rod related “distractions” as interesting and not boring ;-)

    So I’d say second most boring over the past 20 years.

    • Now Batting

      There were points where I loved last years team. Being so bad on paper but actually playing half-decent has its novelty. This year’s team has (had?) higher expectations and is performing worse.

      • lightSABR

        You said it better than I did. Last year was an awful team outperforming expectations, and that’s fun in its own way. This year doesn’t have the low expectations that made that possible. (Although after the Yanks signed Ellsbury, I said that we still needed Cano to make the playoffs. So I guess my expectations were low.)

        And maybe another part of it is just that the injuries are getting really old. Last year I could just shake my head when Granderson got hit the second time. This year, I’m sick of it all.

    • lightSABR

      Last season, the way they managed to stay in the race despite everything was pretty exciting to me. Somehow, this year I don’t find that exciting. Probably because of the expensive, underperforming veterans. And the crappy infield defense. It seems like there’s nothing that will make a game unwatchable quicker than errors on routine groundballs.

      Plus, last year I still had Mo and Andy to watch, and both of them were still really good – it wasn’t like trying to cheer for Jeter’s last hurrah, which involves holding my nose and ignoring his woeful underperformance in pretty much every aspect of the game.

      So… acknowledging that you had a point, I still had more fun last year than this year.

    • Dr. Baseball

      I have to be honest… as a die-hard Yankees fan since 1977… the last few years have been very boring teams. There has been no spark.

      From a guy who used to count down the hours and minutes until each game, I now rarely even put a game on. I read all the posts on RAB and a few other sites, I listen to games on radio or watch on TV when I can, but it is no longer “must see” for me.

      The Yankees of the last few years just have not been enjoyable – at all.

      I had high hopes for this year after last year’s team, but this is just more of the same.

      Sad.

      • Ken

        Hard to consider yourself a Yankee fan if you won’t even watch them play.

      • ChuckIt

        I’ve been a die hard Yankee fan since 1968,and let me tell you,there have been a LOT of worse teams in this time span !

    • JLC 776

      I thought last year’s was much worse, too, but only up to a point.

      Just before this year started, I stated that I was really only excited for Tanaka, CC trying to rebuild himself, Pineda, seeing of Nova would finally be consistent, and the Jeter retirement (could he bounce back after two years of no real baseball to even a shadow of his 2012 .316 BA?).

      At this point, all of my reasons for being excited for this team are gone with the exception of hoping Jeter can keep getting better and keep his head up (and off the DL). So at this point, I’m starting to think 2014 is more boring than 2013.

    • dalelama

      Where do you get your acid? This year’s team make last year’s as exciting as a London whorehouse.

  • JoeyA

    If they become sellers or decide to “stand pat” if TANAK goes down for any length of time, i will lose my shit if they don’t cut ties with Roberts and let Refsnyder play 2B.

    He has proven everything, from an offensive standpoint, and if this team was willing to use Kelly johnson as a 1B and run Eduardo Nunez out there for 2+ years, we can deal with Refsnyder’s defesnive struggles.

    • The Great Gonzo

      Yeah, because bringing up a guy through the org quick and putting him in the MLB lineup as soon as fans call for it Because Future has worked out so well for Boston this season. It works with the Trouts and Harpers of the world because they are exceptions to the rule.

      Burritos and baked bread, man. Burritos and baked bread.

      • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

        I can’t imagine who would eat burritos and baked bread at the same meal. Gross.

        • The Great Gonzo

          Jim is a (foodie) Peckerhead

      • JoeyA

        On a team that isnt going anywhere, give me one benefit to playing roberts for the rest of the seaon and not Ref.

        At worst, Ref sucks and looks terrible, but at least we know what we have. At best, he starts next yr as the starting 2B and it’s one less position to worry about over the winter. I’m not seeing any downside to playing him in the 2nd half if TANAK is down for a long time.

        The guy has done nothing but hit since being promoted to AA.
        Just because he isnt a Harper or Trout type doesnt mean he cant cut it in ML. And even if he can’t only way to know is if they play him, which they won’t do while they contend.

        Obviously NYY feel the same, i simply disagree with them using him as a RF and not a 2B, but, either way, his abilities surpass AAA and the team should use the 2nd half to find out what they have on their hands.

        Bottom line: this team refuses to use younger guys and prefers to get the “veteran” or “sure-thing” route almost every year. Well, if theres a half year where expectations are low and they arent expected to contend, what better time to give some kids who deserve a chance a call-up

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          “this team refuses to use younger guys ”

          Almonte just replaced Soriano.
          Adams got quite a bit of time last year.
          Romine and Murphy got chances.
          Several pitchers have gotten chances.

          A big part of the issue has been not having kids worthy of playing.
          Ref might be, but he’s still relatively new to AAA, and apparently has a long way to go on his 2B defense (which the move to RF certainly won’t help). What’s wrong with letting him develop at his own pace until he’s ready?
          It’s entirely possible making him the MLB 2B now turns into a defensive disaster that could be a setback to his overall development.

          • JoeyA

            1. Yes, Almonte was JUST called up for Soriano. that’s not exactly team “going with youth”. Girardi jerked Zoilo around all year last year, they re-signed Ichiro to a 2 year deal instead of letting Zoilo play as a back-up OF and only now do they call him up after we let our RF slash 165/165 for over a month

            2. Adams got time bc Cashman basically didnt plan on needing a back-up for Youkilis & Co., a poor planning decision but hardly a vote for youth.

            3. Murphy should still be a back-up C, but isn’t. He and Romine were basically used as fill-ins for injuries, it’s not like either was given some sort of extended chance to prove themselves (one could make arguement JRM actually did, but they sent him down anyway YAY Youth!)

            4. SP have been given opportunities, ill give you that

            But the bottom line is, i fail to understand why defense is the reason a guy who has destroyed the ball all year in AA/AAA is not called up, all while we ran out Nunez for 2 years and has Chris Stewart behind the plate last yr and have Kelly Johnson this year at 1B as a back-up.Not to mention, OUR PROBLEM IS SCORING RUNS.

            If this organization was more consistent in choosing guys who profiled to play their positions, i’d agree, but we’ve given up D for O plenty of times in the past, so it’s hard to understand why now there is a hard line against letting a guy play a position he isn’t great at fielding.

            In addition, Roberts isnt exactly Brendan Ryan @ 2B anyway. He has his defensive warts as well

        • The Great Gonzo

          “On a team that isnt going anywhere, give me one benefit to playing roberts for the rest of the seaon and not Ref”

          Oh, this one is easy. If he is not ready, bringing him up could not only ruin some of the progress he’s making, but wouls unnecessarily start his clock. IN response I ask: ”

          if this team is going nowhere, why would you start the clock on a young guy who everyone buy JoeyA thinks is not quite ready instead of just trotting Roberts out there to earn his $2M on a sinking ship?”

          “Bottom line: this team refuses to use younger guys ”

          Solarte
          Wheeler
          Anna
          (A 3 of which ahead of Scott Sizemore, a veteran)
          Whitley
          Pineda
          Phelps
          Nuno
          Almonte
          Warren
          Ramirez

          And its only July 10

      • ChuckIt

        If you look at Harpers stats,you may want to remove his name from this conversation.(1 HR)

  • Yankee$

    Yeah, I’ve seen less baseball this year than I’ve seen in about 12 years. But, I was never excited about Solarte.

  • JohnC

    Most likely would stand pat, or make a couple of minor trades, but nothing that would cost them any of their top prospects

  • Vinny

    When the Mets traded Beltran as a rental player, they got Zach Wheeler in return. Who’s to say that Kuroda or Robertson wouldn’t fetch an impact prospect from the right team?

    • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

      Beltran was a quality bat in a weak trade market that year, and that was still a nice haul. They’re not getting that for a RP or 3-4 SP.

    • ChuckIt

      What’s wrong with Robertson?He’s one of the better closers in the league,& his age is a plus.do you want to replace him with an over the hill,or worse yet,a dead arm ,just off of surgery has been ,or never was?

  • PoopChute

    Too bad they didn’t sell Cano when they had the chance. It was obvious last years team wasn’t going anywhere and if the Yankees already knew they weren’t going to give Robbie a $200M+ deal then he certainly should have been moved. Losing him for a draft pick that we lost anyway was the height of stupidity. If Tanaka is out long term and the Yanks do sell, Kuroda and Drob should bring back an OK return but nothing like Robbie would have brought back. I also wouldn’t trade Gardner because he’s likely a good thing at a good price going forward.

    • The Great Gonzo

      Hindsight.

      You might be one of 3 people in the world that thought a 30 year old second baseman was ACTUALLY going to get a $200M contract. The other two were Jay Z and Jack Z. I would have bet that Cano would sign for $170M, and even that wold have been an overpay.

      With that said, you roll the dice on him coming back and not going to the highest bidder, especially since he didn’t have many suiters lining up to pay him that kind of money.

      • PoopChute

        BS Hindsight.

        If you’re going to give Ellsbury 7 years – $153M then you might as well give Cano 10 years – $235M… Why? Because Cano is a MUCH better player. I’m not an Ellsbury hater, he’s a dynamic player and I’m glad to have him but Cano is on another level.

        Yanks should have either

        1.Extended Cano when he and Boras approached them
        2. Traded Cano at the TD last year
        3. Signed him

        Losing him for nothing was a disgrace.

        • The Great Gonzo

          I need to know… What was your thoughts on the A-Rod extension back in 2007? Because it was QUITE LITERALLY the same situation. A guy with Cooperstown numbers and talent, with no legit health concerns, and no REAL suitors out there at his asking price (which was astronomical).

          You can’t be OK with one and not the other. Are you saying the only move was to trade him while you are in the thick of a playoff run? Or did you KNOW they would not make a run (which is obviously not hindsight)…

          • The Guns of Navarone

            I understand your viewpoint but the landscape in 2007 was nothing like it is today. A-Rod was also older and a MUCH better player at the time. That being said, it would’ve been nice to grab at least one top prospect in a trade for Cano, but you can’t really kill the Yankees for thinking they could re-sign him for $170M+ It just didn’t work out.

            • The Great Gonzo

              And even at 8/$170M, that was a MASSIVE overpay. But maybe you don’t sign Beltran. And then maybe Beltran goes to Boston, doesn’t fall over that wall and get hurt and fucking MURDERS us this season…

              Again, we are playing a dangerous game of hindsight and hypotheticals. What matters now is Tanaka’s elbow and what it means to the future of the franchise.

              • LK

                I think Yankees’ decisions with regard to Cano were defensible.

                That said, in the year 2014, 8/$170M for Cano is simply not an overpay, much less a “MASSIVE” one. Ellsbury is an inferior player and got 7/$153M. Cabrera got a contract close to $300M when he was 30 and not even a free agent. Homer Bailey got $100M when he’s had one season in his career with more than 3 WAR. Shin-Soo Choo is half the player Cano is, is the same age, and got $130M.

                Now, is Cano for 8/$170M a good idea? That’s debatable. But it’s not an overpay in today’s market; if anything, it’s less than market value.

                • Chris in Maine

                  That is comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. Outfielders typically last longer than middle infielders. Cano, realistically is only 2/3 years away from decline. If you insist on comparing Cano anc Choo, look at Choo’s production. Also, remember that these players signed AFTER the Cano deal. Do you think Ellesbury would have gotten the same deal somewhere if Cano had signed for 170/8? Choo?

                  • LK

                    You’ll notice that my list of contracts included a center fielder, a corner outfielder, a corner infielder, and a pitcher. More contracts could certainly be added to the list if desired, though I can’t imagine why that would be necessary. This is not a case of middle infield vs. outfield. Contract values have exploded throughout baseball; this is a point that really isn’t up for debate.

                    I have looked at Choo’s production, so I’m not entirely sure what you mean by that. He’s a mediocre defensive corner outfielder with decent power who gets on base. He’s also clearly an inferior player to Cano.

                    As to your last point, I don’t think it makes any sense to think that Cano’s contract from the Mariners caused the other contracts I listed, as well as the many others I didn’t. The trend of increasing player salaries started long before Cano signed his deal and has continued afterward.

                • The Great Gonzo

                  Show me another 31 year middle infielder not named Derek Jeter worth that kind of money. Cano is great (not was, IS…) and I still love his game, but if we are bored we can go back to the RAB well and see how many people thought he was worth throwing that kind of money at him. That said, as it is not my money, I woulda paid it.

                  As a matter of fact, if I recall there were a strong contingent of you all that said “we offer him what we offer him and if he doesn’t like it he can piss off!” Again, I think that tone was pretty strong when we thought the Yankees were the only ones at the table. Little did we know…

            • Jorge Steinbrenner

              Exactly. Thank you.

          • PoopChute

            Like I said above… If the Yankees knew they are not willing to give a massive contract to stay in pinstripes then they should have traded at the TD last year when it was obvious the team was going nowhere.

            You think 7 years for $153M for a lifetime .296/.350/.435/.785 (and that slash is boosted by 1 crazy year he’s never again) CF is better value then a 10 year – $235M contract for a lifetime .310/.357/.501/.858 2B (who has been upper .800 OPS+ for 6 straight years)? Not too mention Cano playing every day while Ells has battled injury through out his career. Give me the choice of those 2 players with their respective current contracts and I’ll take Robbie every time.

            If you’re going to give Ellsbury that deal you might as well bring back Cano who is clearly the superior player, it’s not even close.

            If you’re not willing to give Cano that contract then you trade him. Even if they traded him and got a blue chip prospect for him they could have tried to sign him back n FA. Losing him for nothing was a disgrace.

            • BigDavey88

              It would be fun to look at this comment in hindsight four years down the road when Cano isn’t the player your making him out to be and isn’t playing 162 games a year.

              Works both ways, bud.

            • The Great Gonzo

              OK, let me throw THIS at you…

              1. Do you NOT think the proposed 8/170M is a massive contract? Betcha everyone except Cano/A-Rod/Pujols thinks thats massive, including the Yankees FO. Not to mention, no one expected him to get 10 years except him. There was ONE bidder until the last minute. ONE. The Yankees. For all the talk around here about “Bidding against yourself” (A-ROD), it seemed like going up to $235 when no one else was in the room would have been insane. But again, hindsight.

              2. How confident are you that anyone was going to trade the Yankees a TOP PROSPECT for a rental of a player (admittedly a VERY SPECIAL player) who has all the makings of a guy that would be testing free agency? If you’re Texas, were you trading Profar for a rental of Cano? How about Oscar Tavares in St Louis? Flip it a little bit… Are you trading our Lord and Savior Rob Refsnyder or Flavor of Last Month John Ryan Murphy for a rental of Hanley Ramirez? Your fucking head would spin.

              Lets not assume the Yankees are smarter than the rest of the league. Everyone knew Cano was going to test the market, and most people assumed the Yankees were going to make the best offer at a little under $200M.

              All hypotheticals lead us to believe things were easier than they really were.

              • Wolfgang’s Fault

                The Cardinals were in the hunt for a world championship. If they felt Cano gave them their best chance to win it, they may have seriously considered dealing Tavaras or at least given it some lengthy thought. If they were unwilling to deal Taveras, perhaps Cano would have gotten them two middle to top of their farm system prospects instead. At least the Yankees would have known what value Cano commanded under those circumstances. Maybe some talks along these lines took place & nothing was leaked because they never got serious enough. Conjecture at this point. We don’t probably won’t know what if any phone calls Cashman had w/the Cards or anyone else besides those he had w/ Theo & the Cubs to acquire Soriano. As far as we know, the Yankees never put out a For Sale sign last year even to find out what if anything Cano or any of their other players might have gotten back in return.

                Fast forward one year and instead of a guy like Cano who theoretically was available to deal to a contending team as a rental, they have a quality leadoff hitting outfielder locked up in a team friendly contract for the next 4 years in Gardner. What if anything might he command from a contending team in need of his skill set? It would be malpractice if the Yankees didn’t do their due diligence & find out. IMO, they can’t go into 2015 w/both Gardner & Ellsbury in their starting outfield & expect to seriously compete for a W/S. I prefer Ellsbury in CF flanked by two other outfielders, but if they can get another team to bid on Ellsbury & take his contract, I’d be happy to deal him & return Gardner to CF, & the bonus w/Gardner is he’s more durable but not as good a base stealer as Ells. Just my opinion, I’d like to get more power production out of the corner outfield spots. Going into 2015, they have to commit to one leadoff hitter/CF, either Gardner or Ellsbury, surround that guy w/potential power & competent fielders, & rebuild the infield & starting pitching staff. Dealing one of these two begins what I believe to be the inevitable. W/so many teams still in the hunt, they probably get their best return for one of them before the trade deadline.

                • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

                  The Cardinals were not giving up Taveras for a Cano rental. Absolutely zero chance of that.

                  That is a given even BEFORE you consider the prospect-hugging tendencies of the Cards.

                • ChuckIt

                  Gardner & Ellsbury are Not part of the problem this year.They’ve produced wherever they bat in the line up.

            • Jorge Steinbrenner

              This is all hindsight, but you’re at least giving the right hindsight argument.

              I wish we’d just stop talking about Cano. I hate constant talk about people’s exes, especially when you’re both seeing other people already.

              • PoopChute

                Of course no one is willing to say they prefer Ellsbury on a 7 years – $153M deal than Cano on a 10 year – $240M deal. Cano and his deal is the obvious choice. There is no hindsight at all involved with that statement. We already had Ellsbury light in Gardner but we didn’t have anyone to step in at 2nd or in the #3 spot in the line up. Both Ellsbury and Cano got overpaid, I’d rather overpay for the elite player and not the very good player. And while of course I can’t prove it on here I called for the Yankees to be sellers at the TD last year at the time.

                There were plenty of potential landing spots for Cano:

                Texas inquired about him.

                Oakland had the immortal Eric Sogard playing 2nd… I doubt they would have traded Russell for 1/2 a year of Cano but maybe… Worth asking. Sonny Gray would have been just fine also.

                And of course the Dodgers with Mark Ellis at 2B… Joc Pederson certainly would have been on my radar also, especially considering the log jam of OF the Dodgers had/have.

                Amazing the Yankees couldn’t admit that last years team had no chance. Of course the almighty $$$ had priority over build. At lead the Yankees have gotten with the time and forgotten about the ridiculous no extension policy moving forward.

                • I’m One

                  We also have no idea what may have been offered for Cano. Maybe the Yankees wanted players with the skills/upside those you proposed had, but they weren’t offered. Believe it or not, we don’t actually know everything that occurs in the back offices of MLB teams.

                  • PoopChute

                    “Earlier this year, the Rangers called the Yankees inquiring about trading for Robinson Cano, a source with knowledge of the conversation told ESPNNewYork.com. The Yankees said Cano was unavailable and the talks ended before they began.

                    Yankees GM Brian Cashman declined to discuss the phone call, while the Rangers’ Jon Daniels did not return a call seeking comment.”

                    Can’t say with absolute certainty that that report is true but I have no reason to believe that it’s not. Silly that the Yankees wouldn’t consider selling in a year that they did not have a chance to compete for a WS title.

                    • The Great Gonzo

                      You have ZERO proof that anyone besides the Rangers had any interest, even passing, in trading for Cano.

                      What you DO have, however, is a raging hard-on about being right about something that is, AT BEST, hindsight and hypotheticals.

                      Would you have traded an elite prospect for a pure rental of Cano?

                    • PoopChute

                      It appears that you have a ‘raging hard-on’ to overlook the fact that we gave Ellsbury a worse contract than Cano got based on their respective skills… Is it hind sight to have wanted to sign Cano to his deal instead of Ellsbury to his? You’re ridiculous… The Yankees could have extended Cano, traded him for value at the TD, or signed him instead of Ellsbury… All 3 would have made me happier than losing him for NOTHING!

                      Also, if you need ‘proof that other teams were interested in Cano’ then you are absolutely clueless. Of course teams were interested in him, not saying all or any would have given up blue chip prospects for a rental, but it’s likely at least one would have given you something. The Giants gave up Wheeler for Beltran who was not nearly the player Cano was and he wasn’t far removed from a bad injury. Even the A’s trade this year, A’s gave up a top 5 prospect in all of baseball and their #2 prospect for 1-1/2 years of a #2 starter and a guy who is having a good year but has typically been a mid to back end starter in Hammel. Not at all far fetched to think that a team like the Dodgers would have given up Pederson for 1/2 year of Cano or the A’s giving up Sonny Gray for the Cano rental.

                  • perfect double taper

                    Unless it’s the Astros.

    • BustinUpTheGatoradeBucket

      I’ll give you one better that few will agree with. They could have moved one player last year at the trade deadline and received at least 1 major league ready prospect. Maybe nothing more, especially considering Cashman isn’t like Beane, but at least 1 big prospect. Think of how many teams always seem to be a closer short of contending or more. There may have even been a team out there to give up more. He’s the only player on the Yankees that had big trade value and I for one would have made the unpopular and hard choice to send him to Pittsburgh or somewhere and gotten something to help restock what is a poorly run, poorly developed, poorly planned, and poorly executed farm system they should have dealt Mariano.

      As an aside I am a Yankee fan. I am 33 and my first memory that I knew I rooted for the Yankees when Mattingly hit 6 GS’s in ’87. I have not had to endure too many lean years as compared to say my father watching the mid/late 60′s and early to mid 70′s plus some bad late 80′s to 92 teams. This year has been my favorite year though to watch since 2001. It’s finally coming apart. Do I feel bad that Tanaka is hurt? Definitely, he was fun to watch. I’ve watched all but 3 or 4 games this season and his were the only ones I anticipated the way I used to anticipate a Cone start or Pettitte. I root for every “kid” that comes up from Scranton or Trenton. I root for Gardner, Jeter, Elsbury, and lastly Ichiro. I root for them because they are Yankees that to me would fit into the team during any era good or bad. But I am sick and tired of these mercenaries. I’d give up all the playoff games from 2002 on when the Giambi years started, the 2003 WS loss and the 2009 WS win if it meant never seeing Rodriguez, Sabbathia, Brown, Johnson, Sheffield, Texiera, McCann, Giambi, and countless others never become Yankees. I am so sick of these guys. I just want our Yankees back. Not entitled guys who refuse to hit the other way because it’s “not their game.” I want grinders, hustlers, leaders, sacrificers. It used to be a place where guys would give up their left leg to be on this team. Now they have to pay hacks to play here and they do half of them under perform waiting like entitled brats. You know what I really want? I want a guy like Mariano Duncan. “We play today, We win today. That’s it!”
      That is what a Yankee should be. For far too long having players with that mindset coming to and being developed by this organization has been pathetic at best.

  • http://twitter.com/CallUpRefsnyder Matt :: Sec109

    Yeah, if Tanaka is gone for more than 30 days, you gotta sell. I agree that Robertson is the most valuable piece, but I disagree with your view on Ichiro. I gotta think he’s valuable to a contending team, so to say ‘zero trade value’ is a bit harsh. He’s been average with the bat and is still pretty good defensively.

    It’s not surprising though, you guys have hated on Ichiro for a while now.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      He hasn’t been average with the bat though.
      2014: 90 wRC+
      2013: 71 wRC+
      2012: 90 wRC+
      2011: 79 wRC+

      The last time he’s been at least average with the bat was 2010.
      Factor in that he’s essentially a non-run producing corner OF, who fell off dramatically in the second half last season, and who has a .602 OPS since becoming the primary RF on May 23, and you have a highly paid 4th OF.
      Not sure 4th OF’s fetch a lot in trade. Maybe more than a bag of balls if they are willing to eat some salary, but really can’t imagine he’d fetch much.

      • Wolfgang’s Fault

        In an environment where a team is desperate to either get into the post season or in need of one or two guys they think gives them a chance to actually make a serious run, a player such as Ichiro, Roberts, K. Johnson, could command more than if it was November and they were retooling their team for the following year. If Tanaka’s down for any length of time, the For Sale sign would have to go out & the Yanks would be fools not to try & maximize whatever value can be gotten from these & other players on their 40 man & even start culling some players in their system who may have value but are blocking other more potentially upside prospects from developing.

    • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

      The Yanks tried to trade him for a C-level prospect AND eat half the contract.

      Pierzynski just got DFA’d by the Sawx. And he’s a catcher, that can hit a tiny bit.

      Saying that Ichiro has zero trade value isn’t harsh – it’s accurate.

      • Get Phelps Up

        Pierzynski can’t hit, period, not even a little bit. And he’s a terrible defender and a Grade A douche.

  • Bronx_Boy

    No, you’re right, they are boring, and a lot of my friends are saying the same thing.

    I try to watch every Yankee game. I’m an older guy, so I’ve seen some pretty boring teams over the years, but this one is vying of Most Boring Ever. It’s just hard to believe in this team.

    The rotation is flat, especially minus Tanaka, and the line-up has got no build to it, it just ain’t got the heft we’re used to seeing.

    Let’s be real – losing Cano sucked the guts out of this team, broke the continuum, the magic, the vibe, the thread, whatever, it just was a really bad idea letting Cano walk, a really crappy idea on so many levels.

    Whatsdoneisdone, sure, but the team needs to start again. We’ve got to be at least 5 years away at this point. The Yanks have deep pockets, but actually, you can’t just buy a team, you need to grow some parts too.

    • Scott

      BB,
      I disagree the rotation is flat, I like watching Whitley and Greene, and Kuroda is still fun to watch. Granted Tanaka is the most fun, but the rotation isn’t boring.

      The line up sucks, I’ll give you that.

      But losing Cano did not suck the life out of this team. Not winning sucked the life out of the team. It wasn’t a bad idea to let him walk. Look if Beltran and McCann were hitting like they can (and should), and Tex had a few more HRs and Ells a little better BA, this team would be better. They would be more fun to watch and no one would give a shit about Cano. Also, if CC, Nova and Pineda were still pitching, again you would have no problems. Now Tanaka is hurt, 4/5ths of the rotation is on the DL, Beltran flipped over the wall and hasn’t been the same, McCann is still finding himself in the AL, Tex has been okay, but no one is on base when he hits HRs, and Jeter’s decline at the plate and in the field has been epic.

      It was a perfect storm. But winning cures everything including losing Cano. At the time of Cano signing with Seattle and the Yanks signing McCann, Belt, and Ells people were talking about how the Yanks were smart for letting him walk and signing 3 players in his place. Now because they are losing, people act like losing Cano in FA is like the Sox trading Babe Ruth to the Yanks back in the day. Cano ain’t Babe.

      The cure for all ills is winning…just freakin win.

  • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

    “Remember when we were trying to convince ourselves Yangervis Solarte was a guy?”

    Sorry Mike, that was you and Eddard.

    • The Great Gonzo

      BOOM

    • LK

      Would it be a bad idea to mention Scott Sizemore here?

      • I’m One

        It’s NEVER a bad idea to mention Scott Sizemore!

        #Teamsizemorerevisited

      • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

        *whistles nonchalantly*

    • Wolfgang’s Fault

      The team & fans gave up on Solarte (if they ever believed in him to begin with) more than that Solarte turned back into a pumpkin. Solarte hit his first speed bump, Girardi quickly wavered in his playing time allotment, Solarte began to press, & the usual script was played out & off he went to Scranton. The guy carried them for the first 7 weeks of the year, & still, he didn’t have a chance here beyond his first real struggles. I’d be surprised if Yangervis ever sees playing time as a Yankee again, and if he does, lasts longer than his first Oh-fer. A team like the Cardinals or Royals would be a better fit for him. He needs a place where he can play a full year, probably at 2B, without being jerked around by bi-polar fans or management. His career will probably be as a utility guy, but imo, he’s a quality ballplayer, & would give you respectable #’s if called on to play every day somewhere.

  • Tyrone Sharpton

    Yankees should look at their roster and see they’re in a decline phase. Instead of trying to throw cash and shit at the wall to see what sticks for the next couple months, it might make sense to think about the future and prospects. Because (especially with the way operations have been going) right now, for the first time in a while, it’s a future that’s murky to say the least.

  • https://twitter.com/KramerIndustry Dr. Martin van Nostrand

    (Un?)fortunately, I’m not really sure the Yankees can do their sell/not buy act when the division is still this much in flux. They’re only three games out of first place and 2.5 out of a wild card position, and none of the teams that stand in the way are particularly invincible. A win tonight and the Yankees would actually move ahead of Toronto, as ridiculous as that should sound given the Yankees year-long mediocrity and that the Jays had a 25-7 stretch at one point. If things broke just right, there’s even a chance this team could be in first place going into the ASB. This isn’t really a testament to this team; they’re an old, mediocre bunch that has been hammered by injuries. Outside of Oakland, Anaheim, and Detroit, the American League is a sad, sad league right now.

    It’s hilarious to think that the NL is still worse in spite of all that.

    • Wolfgang’s Fault

      That means there are plenty of teams throughout baseball who are still very much in the hunt & willing to trade some things of value to improve their chances. There’s possibly/probably some opportunity here if the Yankees are open to it.

  • TWTR

    As I have said, I am staying optimistic on Tanaka until or unless that becomes unreasonable, but this is one more reason why I would prioritize an awesome offense in building a team. Pitchers are too fragile. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have signed Tanaka or draft pitchers high. It means that I wouldn’t overpay in trades for a pitcher or allocate a disproportionate percentage of a budget for them. The Yankees became the Bronx Bombers for a reason, but in recent years, it sems that mindset has been supplanted by pitching-centric view, and I think that has been a mistake that should be rectified.

    • n0exit

      You think its a mistake that the Yankees have acquired pitching and focused on it instead of home runs? Have you been watching the last half decade? The front office doesn’t live in fantasy land or strive to recreate past glory. Offense is down, is continuig to go down, will continue to go down therefore the best pitching will provide a greater marginal advantage the the best hitting. Welcome to the new world order which is actually the old world order.

      • TWTR

        Who said HR? Complete hitters AVG/OBP/SLG. If that’s a fantasy, reality must suck.

        The front office doesn’t maximize its payroll or financial advantage either.

        • TWTR

          And btw, that offense is down is even more reason to focus on acquiring offense, even though scarcity increases price.

          • JohnnyC

            This. Power and offense are the market inefficiencies right now. It’s the mistake the Mets are making: thinking piling on pitching prospects gets them to elite level in this era of diminished offense. When everyone possesses average or better pitching, having run scoring superiority separates you from the pack.

            • Wolfgang’s Fault

              In an offense scarce environment, creative small ball along w/pitching and defense can win. One size doesn’t fit all teams or all eras. If you’ve got great pitching and defense, you’re in each ballgame. Find a way to consistently manufacture runs, & you’ve got a contending or better team. For such a team, skills such as grinding out walks, bunting successfully for hits or to move runners over, stealing bases & hitting & running, squeeze plays & sacrifice flys can be the different between watching and playing in October. It can also can be entertaining to watch. If such a team qualifies for the October tournament, great pitching has in the past & can in the future take the whole shebang.

      • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

        This comment makes no sense.

        If offense is scarcer, you try your damnedest to…..,ACQUIRE OFFENSE, because it’s a rarer commodity.

    • The Great Gonzo

      This time last year, our entire lineup(save for Cano) had been in some sort of body cast or wheelchair. And the pitchers, however ineffective, were healthy. Just saying, YCPBB…

      • TWTR

        What does that have to do with longer term roster construction?

    • Rick

      I’ve actually researched this heavily and there is a very strong correlation between allocating over 40% of your payroll to pitching and making the playoffs.

      • TWTR

        I would like to see it.

  • pinedamaybegreata (formerly Monterowasdinero)

    It all makes for the best selling point the 2014 Yankees have. The Derek Jeter farewell tour. Watch the Captain have a healthy 40 year old season, lead off the ASG and break as many individual records as possible.

    That’s if there are no more Tanaka Tuesdays or Thursdays this year…..

  • n0exit

    Nothing they sell is going to fetch anything of value. Even Robertson has limited value as a rental and a long term cost at not being able to re-sign him. So why the hell would they sell? Just for shots and giggles? May as well just watch and pray.

    • n0exit

      *shits

    • The Great Gonzo

      God damn, do I agree with this. No one worht selling on this team is going to net you the Owings/Gregorius/Tavares lottery ticket. Why sell if all you are getting back is mediocrity?

      • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

        Gregorius IS mediocrity.

        • The Great Gonzo

          Yet still unattainable. But I get your point. Redacted. Replace with Polanco.

  • I’m One

    Or at least consider not buying. That might be the Yankees’ version of selling — not doing anything and standing pat.

    Definitely agree with that, but if they do actually sell, you left out Betances. I’d hate to see him go, since he’s still got many years of control left, but he could bring back a nice return. Personally, I’m against trading him, but since the Yankees haven’t been in this position during Cashman’s tenure, who know’s what they’d do? And you have to consider what type of return they’d get before you just say No!

    • Colonel

      I don’t know that Betances would bring back as much as you think. He’s young and under team control, but relievers definitely have less value than starters. I think I’d rather hang onto him as the future closer (as much as I hate the whole idea of a closer), but you get my gist.

      • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod

        I’d be willing to bet there are teams out there who would trade for Dellin with the thought of converting him back to a starter. I know the Yanks tried that for a long time with lousy results, but someone will see the 98 mph heat and vicious curve and won’t be able to resist the idea of him harnessing the stuff in the rotation.

        • Jorge Steinbrenner

          I agree. It’s intellectual exercise, though.

          There’s a bigger picture here, and I’m not quite sure selling sellable parts brings back the haul that makes you feel better about the future than a bit of patience, and a lot of cash, does.

      • I’m One

        Yes, I do get your point and fully agree. It’s not that he wouldn’t bring back as much as I think so much as he wouldn’t bring back as much as I’d want. Any moves the team makes need to be carefully evaluated. They don’t need to dump salary. They need to bring in pieces that can assist long term if they decide to sell. Giving up Betances doesn’t seem that it would be worth it, unless someone decided to blow them away with an offer they couldn’t refuse.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

      Trading him would be idiotic. He’s young and inexpensive and if the thought would be to sell and contend in a couple of years he’ll still be here, unlike Kuroda and potentially DRob.

  • Colonel

    Totally agree if this team loses Tanaka they need to go into sell mode. Move Robertson since they could actually get something decent for him. Would be a huge mistake to trade the farm for this stinker of a club.

  • Nando

    The bigger question – with ALL these pitchers down but relatively little coming off the books, and ARod coming back on, will the Yankees actually spend for Scherzer AND another stud next year (Lester? Shields or Masterson) or will they take the cheaper route and go for stop gaps like Peavy, Hammels et al? Even with Jeter, Kuroda and Soriano’s money coming off the books, buying Scherzer or Lester will take them so far over the Tax that two good starters may be just too much with their other needs – SS and 2nd being paramount.

    • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

      Hard to see them going after another $22M/ year pitcher at this point. They need to stabilize their offense and address SS, 2B and RF with at least one (probably two) power bat.

  • Rob S.

    You would think this season would seem exciting. Every game seems like a white knuckle affair. Instead it’s just been painful to watch. I felt like things would get better in the second half but everything hinges now on Tanaka’s diagnosis and prognosis. If it’s tendinitis or something minor, Cashman should keep looking for upgrades. If it’s a long term issue, Cashman should definitely be a seller at the deadline. The Yankees are toast without Tanaka.

  • n0exit

    I think some people are slightly overstating the situation. I would be amazed of the FO truly believed they are 5 years away from contending. More like 2. They just signed some good players who don’t become bad overnight. They’re certainly not in a decline phase, perhaps in the midst of a bad season but not decline. I would think that casan will just see this season as bad luck and sign some good free agents again next season and carry on. No need to trade Robertson/betances while feigning contention.

    • Colonel

      Definitely no reason to trade Betances, but there is no reason NOT to trade Robertson. He’s a FA at the end of the year. Get something for him and if you want him back you can always try and resign him at the end of the year.

      • n0exit

        See Sox and lester situation as to why this doesn’t happen. Players hate it. It’s a genuine concern. Especially when drob is a yankee farmhand who has seen nothing but winning and been nothing but successful and still is very successful and would very much still feel like they’re in contention even though everyone but the players know better.

  • Rahul

    Completely agree. I might just give up on the season if the Hiro is done for the year. I’m a die hard fan and will still watch the games but I’ll be hopeless for sure

  • Ghost of Aaron Small

    Come on you guys! Look at the standings! They are 3 games out at the half way point in a division where no team is gonna blow you away. They have done that with minimal power, 2/5th of a starting rotation and (most days) two 40 year old singles hitters as their more consistent hitters.

    Look at the Sox last year, they won the freaking World Series with smoke, mirrors and EVERYONE having career years. If they could get a couple of guys to maybe come around and hit (Roberts, Johnson, Beltran) just close to their career stats, find one scrap heap pitcher (AJ, Kennedy, Colon) to give them innings an win 7 or 8 games, continue to work their bullpen magic and occasionally hit with runners in scoring position, and they could win the division.

    I am not saying they are going deep into the playoffs, but the division is def within reach without mortgaging the future. No need to sell or buy heavy, just play ever so slightly better and they will be in the hunt.

    • Colonel

      Over half of the season has gone by, what makes you think any of that is going to happen?

  • OldYanksFan

    The Yankees will always have high some highly paid/overpaid, hopefully elite, players. Looking past our 3 current bad contracts….

    Tanaka heads the list of True Yankess.
    And I think DRob needs to be there too. After the Great Rivera, I don’t want this team to spend the next decade playing Musical Closers. I can take any one position being a revolving door, but I could not watch this team at all with a shitty closer.

    Question: Can we trade DRob and simply sign him back as an FA in 2015? This would cost a few million/year more (than signing him now). Would it be worth it for what they get in trade?

    As said, Gritner must stay. His contract is a good one.

    There is no easy answer here. We will ne hampered by ARod/CC/Teix the next few years, and our best farmhands are a few years away.

    ————————————————————

    Luck and random fate play a BIG part in Baseball.
    The Red Sox and missing Ellsbury this year, but and average team won the WS last year, and a similar team is 10 games under .500.

    If the Yanks become sellers, it will kill this years attendance.
    They must build for the future, yet give fans some hope for this year.

    If we don’t lose both of Pineda and Nova, and Beltran and McCann simply have ‘slightly below average’ years, we probably have 5 more Wins.

    Cashman is simply going to have to be very smart.
    We are in Rock and Hard Place territory.
    Let’s see if Cashman can pull a rabbit out of his hat.

    • n0exit

      Players who get faded from a team usually don’t like to sign there again, espcoally when they’re in “contention” to win the division. That’s why the Sox won’t trade lester.

      • n0exit

        Dammit traded not faded.

        • Wolfgang’s Fault

          Yup, that’s what they did to Kei Igawa, they faded him. You stumbled upon the right nomenclature there.

  • Jorge Steinbrenner

    So something is undeniably true on a “watchability scale” you developed and scored yourself. Have a drink.

    Selling is a nice dream and all but, citing the pieces you cited, how does the return on that sound like something you can actually build off of? You’re not getting enough back to justify it. Sorry.

    Losing Tanaka for a year plus would be a historically disastrous event for this franchise, but it doesn’t kill things dead.

    • n0exit

      Historically disastrous? Maybe unfortunate or a blow but not disistarous. His contract will be insured freeing up the money and cc might end up in medicle retirement freeing up that money and a-rod may find a doctor who medically retires him or just another “weight loss clinic” and the Yankees will sign a couple of mid level starters expecting pineda, nova and maybe Tanaka to contribute and then contend realistically in 2016.

      I know I sound like NYC, but nothing I’m saying is unrealistic. Heck some might says its likely.

      • Jorge Steinbrenner

        I think signing a guy to a contract of that nature, with his hype, and potentially losing him to serious surgery a half year in would be something our grandkids talk about. Yes. That just doesn’t happen often.

        That’s not a comment, however, on the franchise’s ability to overcome it. The work doesn’t stop happening, and you don’t set yourself so far backwards that it’ll be that much harder upon his return because of it. Selling off a couple of parts for non-elite guys is dumbassery.

        That’s also not to say that you don’t listen on the right deal if things are trending south on 7/30. You look at the standings, not your roster.

        • n0exit

          Our grandkids will talk about it? I doubt it. Unless Tanaka never pitches again, the conversation around him and this deal will be defined by his performance over many years not him missing 1.5 seasons to a common injury. It seems like the end of the world right now but history will barely mark this down.

          As for the right deal, there isn’t one. No one in their right minds would offer anything that comes close to the opportunity cost of selling at the end of this month. Unless this team doesn’t win a single game from here.

          • Jorge Steinbrenner

            If this team were to find itself in this quandary, who would you rather have, a couple of B minor leaguers you got for David Robertson……or David Robertson? I choose option B there.

          • LK

            Keep in mind that Tanaka has an opt-out after year 4 of that contract. If he has surgery and returns to full effectiveness, he’ll opt out and the Yankees will have paid ~$108M for 2.5, maybe 3 seasons of pitching. That’s pretty much a disaster.

            And if he doesn’t return to full effectiveness, then it likely ends up an even worse situation.

            Tanaka needing surgery is really, really bad for this organization; there’s no doubt about it.

    • Wolfgang’s Fault

      Just for the sake of argument, if the 2015 season were here, & you went around the horn w/the players below, IF you had a solid pitching staff, this team could compete.

      1B – Tex
      2B – Solarte
      SS – Ryan or (newly acquired shortstop)
      3b – A-Rod or (Wheeler/Sizemore/K. Johnson/someone else)
      lF – Almonte/A. Garcia or another (RH hitter platoon)
      CF – Gardner or Ellsbury
      RF – Refsnyder
      C – any two of McCann/Cervelli/Murphy/Romine/Sanchez/someone else
      D/H – Beltran(?)

      You could have variables based on their present 40-man roster such as playing Refsnyder at 2B instead of Solarte & playing someone such as Pirela in RF, perhaps platooning w/a left-handed hitter. With no significant upgrade to their present 40-man, IF they had deeper starting pitching, a case could be made they’d be at least competitive. Just saying.

  • http://www.twitter.com/_swarlesbarkley Mark Teixeira – Ghostbuster (formerly Drew) RIP Egon

    Wow everything is so damn depressing over here. You would think the Yankees are in last place or something, not 2.5 games from the playoffs…..

    • FREDDY ‘SEZ’ SCHUMAN (in memory of)

      “HANG IN THERE YANKEES”

  • Andrew

    I say don’t give up anyone but don’t go out and get anyone either. We are stuck with this team. Let the chips fall where they may and if they do fall badly, then we get a top draft pick next year. Let the kids develop and see what happens. I know it’s not a surefire thing but its better than the business model that they have been following.

  • Robert

    14 ininngs a win very proud of the team last nite.

    Between Phelps,Greene,Whitley,McCartny and even Adam Warren lets see if we can find some keepers for 2015 Rotation.

  • Dan

    Maybe they can move McCann if they eat like $10-20m. If there’s any truth to what his former hitting coach said, he may be up for waiving his no trade clause. He should fetch back at least a solid return at that money.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

      Lol.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      Yup. Let’s trade everyone for lesser prospects and pay half their salaries while we watch them beat us. There’s a sound strategy.

      • Dan

        $10-20 would be 1 year off the deal. Catchers are valuable, they actually were able to get not nothing for Chris Stewart. Remember that.

        • Wolfgang’s Fault

          If they think McCann’s shot or just can’t make it work here in NY, it’s something they have to seriously consider.

  • http://twitter.com/CallUpRefsnyder Matt :: Sec109

    If, big if, but if Tanaka is done for the year, the next meaningful Yankee game will be 9/25, Jeter’s last home game.

  • Jacoby Eddardsbury

    1. If it’s TJS then this year is lost and next year is lost. It could be a blessing in disguise if it forces them to develop these kids and see what they can do at the MLB level. That’s how the 90s dynasty was built.

    2. Chase starts and throws 3, Huff throws 3 and then it’ll be the pen. They probably won’t have much of a chance to win anyway.

    3. They should sell if Tanaka is lost but they won’t. Too much money invested in contending.

    4. Nobody wants these albatross contracts. The Yankees are stuck with them. Robertson and Kuroda are only tradeable because they’re in their last years. Gardner is cost controlled for a few years.

    5. And that’s got to be a hit to ratings and attendance. Jeter is the only thing keeping it afloat, like Mariano did last year. People tune in and attend the game to watch Jeter. Yanks always used to be fun to watch because they could put up so many home runs and score a lot of runs. This team is dreadful.

    • Wolfgang’s Fault

      They’ve got a bunch of similar Gardner type players throughout their farm system. If Tanaka’s down for the count, either Gardner’s gotta go or they have to try & deal Ellsbury over the winter. The two of them — at least on this team — is just too one dimensional. Due to Gardner’s contract, figures he’d be the easier of the two to deal. I think they could get back at least one quality pitching prospect if not two for him.

  • Frank

    Losing Tanaka hurts, but it’s not like this was good team with him. He just gave them a better chance of winning when he pitched every 5th-6th day. But the rest of the pitching staff (starters), inept offense and pourous defense were/are still major issues for this team. Hell, I don’t mind at all if they tank. At least they’ll get a protected draft pick they can’t forfeit when they dish out a ton of $$$ for another FA past his prime.

  • The Guns of Navarone

    Totally agree on point #5. I’m much less excited to watch this team than I have been at any point in the past. They don’t walk and they don’t hit homers. A staple of every Yankees team in recent memory before last season. It’s a product of poor roster construction and I think that’s reflected in how poorly they play at home. Whether this team makes the postseason or not, I hope they have some long term plan in place instead of trying to patch it together year after year

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      So is that a two, or a four, on the watchability scale? Does someone have the answer key for the watchability scale?

      Just busting Mike’s chops here, in case that disclaimer was needed.

      • The Great Gonzo

        I asked Eddards dad. HE agreed its an ABSOLUTE 0.

  • Darren

    NO SELL. NO SELL. NO SELL.

    BUY BUY BUY.

    Yes, the team is fucking boring right now because Beltran isn’t hitting, McCann just started to hit, and we lost three starters to injury. But if they sell, it could easily precipitate a REAL tailspin, like, early 90′s horror show. This division sucks and we should make some bold moves. Fuck the future. To quote Janis, there’s no such thing as tomorrow, man.

    Cashman and Hal should work feverishly behind the scenes to get ARod’s suspension reduced so he can come back August 15th. We need some excitement and a good clubhouse leader like Alex.

    Trade Murphy, Sanchez, Dellin and Judge for Tulowtiski, he can play third this year, second if Alex comes back. Get Cliff Lee for a bag of balls right now, he’ll be healthy soon. Bring up Refsnyder and see what he can do – he doesn’t have to be the savior. Trade O’Brien, Gatoh and cash for Dillon Gee.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      You suggested trading Jeter to the Dodgers yesterday.

      • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

        Darren is the new Eddard.

        • Darren

          Well, I can only say that I’m not trolling by suggesting we don’t hold on to prospects merely for the sake of doing so. I think it’s a totally reasonable course of action to try and get as many quality major league players now – especially those under team control for more than this year – to try and rebuild the team — rather than HOPE that young players develop.

          • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

            My comment was completely tongue in cheek.

          • Wolfgang’s Fault

            HS, Jim, you continue down this road any further, were all gonna have to wear hazmat suits to read your comments. What the hell gives, man?

      • Darren

        That was pretty much a joke. The only non-joking element of it was if it was like August 20th and we were 18 games out of the wild card, would we even consider trading Jeter? I mean, of course, the answer is no, although it would be worth thinking about for a second. But Jeter would probably rather go down with the ship for image purposes only. It’s not like he’s Ray Borque chasing his first ring.

        • Jorge Steinbrenner

          Image purposes?

          Suggesting a trade to him would probably be the most classless thing I could imagine the team doing, other than pissing in a gift basket without his knowledge.

          • Darren

            Huh? If the Yankees were totally out of it in mid August, why would it be insulting to say, “Het Jeets, look, we think you want to stay a Yankee and don’t want to tarnish your image by becoming a Dodger for the last 2 months of career, but if you’re burning for one last taste of the playoffs, we will be happy to accommodate you, and then sign you to a one day contract so you can retire as a Yankee.”

            • I’m One

              I actually agree that the approach you’re suggesting is not classless or insulting. You offer it to him behind closed doors and if he’s not interested, you never speak of it again.

              • Wolfgang’s Fault

                You only bring it to his attention IF the Dodgers or some other seriously contending team inquires. If he wants a chance at that ring one more time, yeah, no insult at all. Plenty of guys over the years would have been down w/that no question had the circumstances availed themselves.

          • Chip Rodriguez

            This. Jeter has 5 rings, so it’s not that he’ll retire with that goal unfulfilled. For someone like Ichiro or Beltran in the last year of their contract, it may be different.

            • http://Riveravenueblues Marty l

              You do know that Beltran signed for 3 years , yes?

    • Wolfgang’s Fault

      “To quote Janis, there’s no such thing as tomorrow, man.”

      I don’t know, Darren, Janis doesn’t quite seem to be the exact model we’re looking to emulate here. I really loved her work w/BB though, & kudos for the out-of-the-box brainstorming here. Perhaps some Jim Morrison input could open some constructive doors for this franchise?

  • Mel Hall

    You guys are spoiled from winning for 20 years, We could go back to the days when Kevin Maas and I were the go to guys and Chuck Cary was our ace

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      Chuck Cary night was my favorite night of the week. It was kinda sorta like ‘Naka Night.

  • CapitalT

    Ownership needs to learn that signing players to bad contracts doesn’t make the team watchable. They need to use their financial might more judiciously. Beltran’s 3 years was a bad idea as they are stuck with him. They would be better off to way over pay for1 year than add the years. Elsbury will be the same. The only thing that contradicts this is if ownership will be willing to eat the last years on the deal and get rid of the player ala Soriano or Burnett which is like giving a one year over paid deal with deferred payments and a free option to keep the player on the roster but really no obligation.

  • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod

    Jesus Christ, I seriously wonder why some of you even follow the team or watch the games. Go follow NBA free agency or pursue other interests if the Yankees are that much of an emotional downer for you.

    Yeah, the team is full of holes. They just lost their ace for what will hopefully only be 2 starts. Most of the rest of the rotation is already on the DL. The bats are sporadic at best. Big free agent signings are underperforming. People like Kelly Johnson are getting significant playing time at positions like 1B. But despite all of that, the Yankees are still hanging around.

    We all get frustrated by aspects of this team, myself included. But if you’re willing to give up on the season (and 2015 before it even starts) then why not just stop watching instead of constant hand wringing and doom-and-glooming? Ultimately everyone can express their fandom in their own way, and if incessant whining is your manifestation of that then so be it. I guess I prefer to just react to the bad and keep cheering on the team through it all; even though they have no business being there, the 2014 Yankees are still in the mix.

    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

      Kelly Johnson has absolutely not been getting significant playing time.

      I wish he were, he’s one of the very few options on this team with any actual power in his bat, even if you’re sacrificing average.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        Meh, he’s started 17 of the last 25 games, hit 204/333/315 in that span, and played some rather shaky defense.

        He has been playing more lately. He hasn’t showed anything to say he should play more.

        Not that the current alternatives at 3B are very appealing.

        • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod

          This is more or less what I’m saying. He barely played while Yangervis was hot, but has played pretty regularly recently. Definitely not making a case for himself to play more, but it’s not like anyone else on the roster is making a case for his playing time.

          • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

            17/25 isn’t what I call regularly.

            He has a history that others don’t. Without 5-6 starts a week, I wouldn’t expect him to be able to find any sort of groove.

            I’m just saying, if everyone else has had a chance, give him 2 weeks without a day off. You have a better chance of getting a few HR out of him than most of the other IF on our roster.

            • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod

              I’d say 17/25 is regular enough given his performance, but I can’t argue that there’s anyone else demanding his reps.

              • I’m One

                17/25 is well above 50% of the games, making him the primary third baseman at this time. And agree, while he’s not performing well, who are the current alternatives that are pushing him out of the way?

            • Wolfgang’s Fault

              Wheeler’s got pop in his bat, he’s hit RH pitching in the minor leagues, he’s a solid defensive 3B, & he’s got all of 15 PA’s since being called up. Just saying.

        • Wolfgang’s Fault

          You don’t know anything about Wheeler yet to conclude that. Well, maybe you do, but me & a lot of other people don’t. I think Wheeler’s going to be a very good player. If he gets the chance to actually play, we’ll find out.

      • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod

        I would say he definitely has been getting significant playing time lately (not the beginning of the season) but I suppose that’s a matter of different perspectives.

        And I completely disagree that he should be playing more. I think KJ’s “pop” is way overstated. 16 HRs playing near full time his last two years is nothing special. That’s another Gardner this year (yeah I know it’s been a career year) without the AVG and OBP. Plus he’s a butcher at first and meh at third. I can’t really argue that the Yanks have anyone better at the moment, but I’m definitely of the “make a move to try and get more production and cut KJ” camp as opposed to “play KJ more”

        • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

          But in lieu of other moves, I don’t know why he isn’t getting more playing time. Yes of course, if we make a move, I don’t care whether KJ stays or goes. I have no real connection to him.

          I just see more potential in him than in Wheeler, Solarte, Roberts, et al. Even if “more potential” is C+ infielder.

          • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod

            I think, for all the hate he gets, Roberts has been way more valuable to the team than KJ (not that he’s an All-Star or anything). I don’t think making that swap provides any measurable improvement. A couple more HR’s? Probably, along with way more K’s, shorter AB’s and about the same defense? I’m just spitballing here.

            Yeah, he’s probably gonna be better than Wheeler and Solarte, although even with his abrupt fall from the sky Solo had more doubles, HR’s and a way higher OBP in only 2 more games played. Wheeler seems to have a better glove but who knows how his bat plays in MLB. I wouldn’t scream about giving KJ a couple weeks as the sole third-baseman. I’d say the same about Wheeler, for what it’s worth. I don’t think swapping them every 2 days provides much measurable benefit. To answer your question, I can only guess he isn’t getting more playing time because he isn’t hitting and is playing suspect defense (not all that different from others, granted). If they decide to play him full time I won’t complain, like I’ve said it’s not like they have another obviously superior option.

            Anyways, the point of my original post wasn’t to hate on Kelly Johnson, just to say that despite less than ideal circumstances (inlcuding KJ playing first, which is an abomination and shouldn’t happen anymore) than Yanks still have a chance.

            • Wolfgang’s Fault

              I’d play Wheeler every day at 3B & spot Johnson in at 3B against a tough, hard throwing RH unless & until Wheeler shows me he can’t produce at 3B against righties, can’t produce against anybody, or shows me he’s fine there against everyone.

              • Jorge Steinbrenner

                You’d play Wheeler every day? I’m shocked. SHOCKED, I SAY.

                • Wolfgang’s Fault

                  Ha! Didn’t mean to startle you, Jorge.

  • Jorge Steinbrenner

    Is it break time at Dr. Ahmad’s conference yet? Usually there’s a break between the start of the day and lunch.

    • The Great Gonzo

      West Coast, son… They barely got their coffees and danishes on their plates yet, let alone wrote their names on the tri-fold disposable name plates… Breakfast break will come after our lunch time.

      • Jorge Steinbrenner

        He can skip the Continental. Really.

  • Kosmo

    I really want NY to buy. 1 SP and a RF and/or 3B. Yanks can do it.

  • Fernando

    Sure, Selig’s parity/mediocrity makes this team look like a playoff contender. But that is just a mirage. This teams stinks. Too many mediocre pieces that are long in the teeth or short on health. They must sell, if only to open up spots to develop some more young players.

    I don’t care for a playoff spot and first round exit. They need to rid themselves of guys like Roberts (Refsnyder), Cervelli (Murphy), Johnson (Solarte), Suzuki (Pirela), Kelly/Thornton (Claiborne/Ramirez/Montgomery) and Kuroda (Greene/Tracy). Sure those guys in parenthesis are not going to win in 2014 but they do open up spots to see what those guys can do. And the guys traded won’t bring back much, but opening up opportunity and clearing cap space are still beneficial.

    The team was wise to spend a lot of money in this year’s international draft, but those guys are about 6 years away. There has to be a flow of young guys to keep this team fresh. Spending on free agents isn’t a viable strategy anymore. There is a dearth of useful players available as teams are locking up their young talent much sooner.

    I’m not trying to be pessimistic, but you have to be willing to make bold moves to change the fortunes. Just plugging in mediocre guys may keep you in contention, but isn’t it about winning championships? You have to know when to just knock down the wall with a sledgehammer rather than hitting your head against it.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      I care about a playoff spot and a first round exit. Do you know how many fans of other teams would kill for that?

      • http://www.twitter.com/_swarlesbarkley Mark Teixeira – Ghostbuster (formerly Drew) RIP Egon

        Yes I will take getting to the playoffs no matter where they exit to not making the playoffs 100/100 times and 3 times on Sunday.

        Any Yankee fan who wants the team to not make the playoffs so they can have the “kids” play is a fucking idiot. They aren’t winning the way you want to win? That might be the stupidest thing most people on this site are harping on.

        As a fan, (especially a team like the Yankees) you should care if the team wins or loses. Period. I could care less if they have payroll flexibility or are doing with guys they mostly brought in or mostly are from within the organization, as long as they WIN.

        • Joe C

          As a fan, do I want them to get into the playoff’s yes. Do i think they’ll get there this year? No! I think that it is a bit unrealiztic. I really don’t think that they should try to push hard to get in at the expense of the team’s future. I really don’t. I would much rather miss the playoffs from time to time and and win five titles in a row than make the playoffs every year and get knocked out in the first round the way they’ve been doing. The point is that the time has come to blow this thing up and start again. I think that it was obvious last season when they should have unloaded guys like Phil Hughes, Joba and Cano. That way they could have gotten something. They could have been a contender, instead of bums, which is what they are.

        • Scott

          JUst win!! Then all these losers would stop whining about wanting to lose.

          Like you and Jorge, I would always rather make the playoffs where anything can happen.

      • Wolfgang’s Fault

        Don’t care for a playoff spot at all costs and w/a no or very little chance to advance team. The Yanks can acquire value for players like Ichiro precisely because of your latter point.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      Not sure why you’d want to rid them of Kelley. He has anther year of team control left, is a solid reliever, and is much better than Claiborne.
      All indications are Montgomery isn’t ready. Ramirez didn’t exactly look ready either. And I think Claiborne and Ramirez are currently dealing with injuries anyways.

      • Fernando

        I like Kelly. Just think that he can bring back something and the bullpen is the one area where the team has successfully incorporated new players.

        • Old Man Time

          “just think he can bring back something…”

          I really don’t understand this line of thinking. That’s trading him just to be trading him. You guys bitch about the Yankees grabbing “junk” off the waiver wire, yet that’s around the same quality return you’ll get for a guy like Kelley.

          • FIPster Doofus

            Yep. The Yankees got him a year ago for Abraham Almonte, who is awful. The return now wouldn’t be much different. Kelley’s fine to have around as a third or fourth setup option, but guys like that are of the dime-a-dozen variety and don’t have much of any trade value. Might as well keep him.

        • Jorge Steinbrenner

          Something that will help the team more than Shawn Kelley will?

          Let’s sell for the sake of selling. It’s so much fun.

  • Ander

    Would you trade Betances for Jorge Soler?

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      No.

      • I’m One

        I’d think about it. Haven’t scouted Soler (not that my scouting skills would really tell anyone anything) or followed his play, other than knowing he’s still in the Burrito/bread-baking phase.

    • FIPster Doofus

      Regardless, I can’t imagine the Cubs would trade Soler for Betances.

  • http://www.bennardolevine.com Boca Pinstripes

    Agree with everything said. Except for Ellsbury and Gardner being “awesome”. They are having “solid” seasons. Nothing special. George Springer is awesome. Mike Trout is awesome. Tulo is awesome. Closest thing Yankees have to awesome at this point with Tanaka is Bettances. It’s pretty sad….

  • dasani

    Yankee and Red Sox fans finally have something in common, we’re both thinking of next season already.

    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

      I prefer aquafina.

    • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod

      Speaketh for thineself, good sir.

  • mt

    I think they need to probe what Robertson would bring back but they probably prefer to give him a QO next year (if they keep him) and get a draft pick if he leaves as a free agent. I do think it matters to them that he is a home grown Yankee (like Cano was) – if player leaves at end of year, they tried to keep him but not sure they want to trade him during season and lose QO possibility (and the player may love their new team/manager making the new team the actual favorites to re-sign.)

    Now Ichiro or Johnson are another story (but they will get little return, as you said).

    I think the issues that make Yankees unwatchable for a Yankee fan like me are:

    1) their offense does not flow very well and is frustrating to watch- bad hitting in general or getting bat on ball in RISP situations; if they score they tend to score early and shut down (remember the 15 games in a row or so earlier this year when Yankees only scored in three innings in the game and never past the fifth inning); their games have such a predictable pattern – we don’t score or we score some runs early and then shut down and other team chips away so we have to see overworked Warren/Betances/Robertson way too much. For me who wants Yankees to win, a blow-out now and then would help ease general frustrationof watching team.
    2) There is the sinking feeling that every single offensive player is past his prime, some substantially so . So watching a Jeter and Ichiro even hit OK for average is alright but with absolutely no power (and Ichiro is horrendous in RISP situations). It is sort of sad. The lack of power on the team is stunning. Having a young player or two would do miracles (even if Refsnyder sucks as a 2B defensivley) to make them more watchable. To a Boston fan (for example, who has had a worse year than Yanks and admittedly are further out than Yanks) may be more watchable because they may see some exciting young players like Holt (performing well), Vazquez and Boagerts/Bradley/Betts (performing poorly but they are young.) All these players are under 22-26. Every single critical offensive player for Yanks is over 30 (and even Wheeler and Solarte are not considered prospects and are older than 27.)
    3) Also the feeling that McCann and Beltran are overpaid busts with a feeling that Beltran may be a possible injury wash-out over a substantial portion of next three years.
    4) Except for Tanaka, feeling that most of the starters should be in the bullpen or at best a 4 or 5 starter (and McCarthy trade does not change this).

    I still do not see Yankees selling because there have been instances where mediocre teams (like the Cardinals a few years back right before Pujols left) made the playoffs and won. We all want to definitiveley assert today that based on today’s eye test that there is no way Yanks can win playoffs but it does not work that way so much in baseball (basketball seems to be different recently where one of the three top regular season teams does win championship.)

    • Wolfgang’s Fault

      If Tanaka is down for the count, no way this team has a chance of winning & only slightly better chance to make the postseason. Tanaka’s out for extended time, they have to sell every part they can wring value out of & is replaceable or doesn’t fit in w/their future. I’d resign D-Rob though & wouldn’t deal Betances (unless on either/or was given the Vito Corleone option).

  • mustang

    1- Being sellers. Are you guys high?!
    They have nothing that would make selling worth it.
    They would lose fans not only this year, but also probably next year to.
    They are 3 back in the division and could even be in first by the all-star break.

    2-This team being boring.
    NEWS FLASH: They are boring with or without Tanaka the guy pitches once every 5 days the over 4 days the Yankees are a hard watch as any .500 team would be. Regardless who gives a shit since when did “watchability scale” become part of sabermetrics.

    3- Move on.
    Do they even have a choice?
    For the “let the kids play” crowd if you haven’t notice the AAA shuttle has been burning its wheel the last 2 years. There is really nothing to bring up.

    Losing Tanaka is devastating, but they still have the same needs a #1 or #2 starter and a HR bat.

    • Chip Rodriguez

      This, this, this.

      1. But selling Brendan Ryan or Brian Roberts is going to net such a HUGE haul! I mean, all the contending teams like the Reds, Cards and Angels absolutely need a backup shortstop or an old, injury prone second baseman!

      2. The Red Sox were utterly boring to watch last year, despite what ESPN says. (Beards do not make dull baseball exciting.) The Rays were boring as shit in 2008. The White Sox were just as dull in 2005. Yet people seem to forget that because of where those teams ended up. The Orioles were great fun to watch last year, but I don’t recall them making the postseason either.

      If the Yankees bore their way into the ALDS or even to the wildcard playoff, I will be delighted.

      3. Exactly – with or without Tanaka, the team still had glaring needs. Losing Tanaka for any length of time really hurts, but the division is deeply flawed to the point that a couple of good trade acquisitions could still make a difference.

      • mustang

        If the Yankees win tonight and the O’s lose what true Yankees fan wouldn’t be watching this weekend’s 3 game set with the division on line for the all-star break? Boring or not.

    • Improbable Island’s Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR)

      Bingo.

  • Marc

    I think that I would actually start crying if the Yankees traded Brett Gardner. Besides that, if Tanaka goes down, I’d love to see the Yankees ship off some extraneous veterans, even for C or D level prospects. Maybe ship off Robertson, maybe Betances if he’ll net a solid prospect. Without Tanaka the Yankees are flat out screwed, so why not.

  • Bobby lucarelli

    Lol..yanks are not trading d-rob..they’re gonna give him an extension.

    Trade gardner? More lulz…all these blogs with this trade ideas fail to realize the Yankees have never traded an established home grown talent….and they never will.

    My god what an awful read

    • Bobby lucarelli

      My apologies…Soriano a decade ago….for the best player in baseball at the time

  • Get Phelps Up

    Sorry, but last year was way less likeable of a team than this year, at least to me. I’d much rather watch underperforming McCann than Chris Stewart and underperforming Beltran than Wells. Also while we complain all the time about the IF this year, we may be forgetting how much fun it was to have 3/4 of the IF be Nix, Brignac, Adams, Overbay, Nunez, TRAVIS ISHIKAWA, etc.

    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

      It was especially fun not seeing Jeter on the field all year.

      • Get Phelps Up

        And Tex, and not seeing Granderson and ARod until August.

  • Martin L

    Pitching injuries seem to epidemic across the majors. And yes, a long term injury to Tanaka pretty much wipes out the season. Unfortunately, injuries are part of baseball. As adults, we will all just have to deal with it. Hand wringing and moaning about it accomplishes nothing.

  • Leila

    Is anyone else wondering why the Yankees have been so injury-prone over the last few years? This is something I wish would be explored further. What kind of training/warm-up/cool-down/cross-training are they doing or not doing? Are the pitchers being over-worked? Nutrition? (please tell me they aren’t eating stadium food…)

    Ichiro is the only one who I see continuously stretching throughout the game and he is also the only player that comes to my mind at least who hasn’t been seriously hurt apart from one short stint. Some of the injuries are clearly accidents but others seem to be caused by overuse or other factors. I used to work in a physical therapist’s office and was told that the doctors and PT’s that the Yankees use are much older and on super-cushy contracts…and are not current on practices and methods being used today. Sometimes I wish there was a segment during the game broadcast where a PT or sports medicine specialist would do the injury-update spot to give further insight.

    • Chip Rodriguez

      The Yankees have more old players than most, so it’s not exactly a shock they see so many more injuries.

      Guys in their 30s like Jeter, Beltran, Tex, etc are always going to be a little more at risk with more wear and tear on them, compared to a George Springer or Mike Trout.

      And it’s not that they’ve been exceptionally bad compared to other teams. The Rangers have had it much worse this year. The Angels suffered a lot last year.

      There are a LOT of pitchers around the league in many teams who’ve had injuries too. The Cardinals have lost 3/5s of their rotation to the DL too. This is not an exclusively Yankee problem, it’s something around baseball.

    • Darren

      I think the Yankees are probably as injury prone as any team – you probably got used to the Yankees being so durable for so many years, with the likes of Cano, Posada, Matsui, Jeter (until last year), Bernie, Pettitte. It was bound to average out over time.

      • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

        That’s not how averages work. Being lucky for 10 years doesn’t mean the next 10 years will be unlucky.

        • Darren

          Eh, wrong choice of words. The point was that Yanks had a lot of very durable star players for years.* In contrast, it only SEEMS like they’re injury prone now, when in fact, they may be as injury prone as the average MLB team. Better?

  • Chip Rodriguez

    Let’s also note that the Yankees are not just a sports franchise, but a business.

    The moment they sell and fold up hopes of playing in the postseason this year, revenues are going to take a huge hit. The opportunity cost of not going to the postseason for them is huge in terms of $, so it’s (again) a situation where they need to stay in the hunt, otherwise it’ll be expensive.

    This is why the Steinbrenners keep indicating that they may take on more salary if needed in a trade. Selling may seem like a sensible decision for Yankees the baseball team, but it will only hurt the marketability and profits of Yankees the franchise.

    • Wolfgang’s Fault

      Not necessarily so. Watching a young team full of prospects but not contending for the 2nd half has it’s charms, and there are plenty of people who’ll come out to the BP to see them play. Yanks are already getting whatever TV money regardless of what happens on the field. As to adding payroll, they can do that BUT should only if they acquire a foundation type player(s) already on (a) big contract(s), & they can get rid of some of the other dead money they’re committed to. If fans see a young team anchored perhaps by a few big contracts but that team has promise for the future, they’ll continue to show up to support them.

  • Leila

    Since the injuries have been spread out pretty evenly regardless of age and Ichiro, as one of the older players…has not been seriously injured and clearly has a strict training regimen…I guess I’m just thinking it may be partially be age but it could also be attributed to something in their training/technique. The injured pitchers are all relatively young. I may be wrong but it is something that strikes me as a possibility…not just with the Yankees but across baseball.

    • JLC 776

      Pitching-wise, it’s happening across the league. I don’t know what it means, but the number of TJS victims this year is unbelievable.

      http://www.mlbdailydish.com/20.....-list-2014

    • Wolfgang’s Fault

      Over the past couple of decades, baseball pitchers have adopted different techniques to increase velocity and movement on their pitches. Along w/that, the training & development procedures of pitchers has evolved which has effectively lowered the amount of innings and actual pitches thrown by pitchers throughout their development years. It wasn’t unheard of years ago in the big leagues to have your 1 & 2 top starting pitchers throw 250+ innings in a year. Even 300+ innings weren’t unheard of. Today, pitchers are on strict inning & pitch counts throughout the game.

      Despite all this, as you point out, injuries are at a pandemic level. is that due to the newer pitches that require the arm to do things they’re incapable of doing for long without injury, due to generally rapid increase in velocity throughout the game for all pitchers on average? Perhaps the strict pitch & inning counts actually inhibit a pitchers ability to fully adapt to their full potential & ability? Your guess is as good as anyones. I don’t think you can scientifically pinpoint it to any one thing, & all of these are probably valid explanations. Along w/that, I add that hitters now can watch video of all their previous A/B’s during a game thus making themselves capable of adjusting quicker to what a given pitcher is doing to get them out. Generally, hitters are just better trained now about the strike zone & more difficult to get out (though decreased offense in the game would argue otherwise) so pitchers, pitching coaches, etc., are constantly trying to stay ahead of the curve by giving their guys new ways of attacking hitters. That usually means finding ways to increase velocity or movement. Changing speeds is likewise another way to get hitters out, but fewer guys are able to master this. In a nutshell, imo, that’s a general overview that’s lead to the alarming rise in pitching injuries.

  • Jorge Steinbrenner

    Play all the kids…..except Chase Whitley.

    #trollingjim

    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

      Screw it. I’m going down with the ship. #MOARWHITLEY

  • JLC 776

    The greatest irony of all, to me, is that the only uninjured pitcher is the 39-year-old.

    Kuroda and Jeter have yet to hit the DL on a team that is more ravaged by injury than a Civil War brigade. That’s amazing.

  • qwerty

    I recall being ridiculed because I suggested that Tanaka may be more prone to an injury because of all the innings he threw. This was a few weeks ago. Logic and common sense always wins out in the end over ignorance.

    • Leila

      I think the change in his activity and length of innings has to factor into this injury. No question.

      • Wolfgang’s Fault

        The size of the baseball in MLB is larger than the one he was familiar with using in Japan. Just saying.

    • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

      Knowing whether he was more prone is not the debate.

      You didn’t guarantee he got hurt. It’s possible he only had a 10% chance of getting hurt, and that 10% happened. Your estimate of his “likelihood” is never going to be proven one way or another.

      • qwerty

        Prone means he has a high degree of future arm problems. With the abuse he suffered in japan it doesn’t take a genius to put 2 and 2 together after the paper James Andrews came out with, which stated that pitchers who are abused when they are younger have a much higher chance for elbow problems later on.

  • John Cee

    The timing of the injury/poor performance is scary: two poor starts plus an injury following a 116 pitch gem. The fact the Yanks promptly DL’d him makes it even scarier.

    I don’t think the Yanks should buy, regardless, but that is not their way. At least with Tanaka, if they could net another top starter (eg Hamels, Price), they could be dangerous in a short series. With no Tanaka, pretty much forget it.

    The problem with the way the league is now set up and given the Yanks current state of affairs, they are mired in mediocrity that is difficult to impossible to buy their way out of. Essentially, despite a couple of decent prospects who may be able to help them now, their farm cannot help them too much, either. Thankfully, they went on the recent International spending spree.

    It seems the best avenue to get good talent is to scout, scout, scout, suck for a season or two and then draft well…hopefully in the top 10. I don’t see the Yanks taking this path. Barring some amazing trade(s), I see the Yanks stuck in mediocrity for awhile.

    • Nathan

      Yup, before you could count on other team’s best players hitting FA but that’s not the case anymore. The Yankees could bolster their roster by trading prospects but the farm is so bare, what do the Yankees have to offer?

      I think we’re due for a new GM, a few down years to regroup and wait. This could never happen while Jeter was here, so maybe it’ll happen after this season. Start fresh.

  • Nathan

    These last two years have been tough to watch. I think this year is worse because, due to the signings (namely Tanaka), I had a little more hope for this year. Replace Chris Stewart with McCann, add Ellsbury to Gardner, Beltran finally a Yankee and Tanaka, the biggest pitcher in a while, in pinstripes? I ignored the obvious team flaws and had some real hope.

    I have to force myself to watch now just because it’s Jeter’s last year and I’m trying to watch every game I can (did the same for Mo & Andy last year) but wow, it’s tough. Poor offense, poor defense and patchwork pitching.

    Seeing as how the farm system lacks any stars and FAs get locked up, I think we’re in for a serious rough patch.

  • notsosmart

    effff this and everything else too

  • ProfB

    Guys. It’s gonna be Tommy John. It has to be. Because the worst thing that can happen is what happens. Always.

  • mustang

    I vote for Jorge Steinbrenner to be the watchability scale director with The Great Gonzo as his assistant.

    I will also like to research a leverage innings and watchability scale combo to maximize the fan experience.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      You can’t just spring that on me. I can’t just pull a validated instrument out of my ass.

      First meeting of the “Watchability Scale” project set for Monday at 10:00 AM. Donuts and cofee provided.

  • Chris in Durham

    Yep. This team is boring as hell to watch. I almost don’t get unhappy anymore when they lose. What else could you expect from this group?

    Six happy thoughts I had the first half:
    1. Wow, this Tanaka guy is great!
    2. Pineda is also great… woo-hoo!!
    3. We plucked a gem from nowhere! Maybe this Solarte guy can be a infield regular!
    4. Wow, this Betances kid is awesome.
    5. Teixeira can still hit. Thank goodness!
    6. Chase Whitley is a stud. Maybe he can be a #3 for the rotation next year!

    My happiest (Yankees) thought from the past two weeks: All Star Break!

  • Improbable Island’s Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR)

    We are three games back right now.

    If you think the Yankees are sellers, especially if they win tonight, you’re out of your gourd.

  • jgibs

    What can you say about this team that hasn’t already been said about dog shit? But seriously, you know you’re team is in trouble when you need guys like Nuno, Phelps, Whitley, Greene and the rest of your pitching staff to all pitch like the second coming of Old Hoss Radbourn just to win a game cuz your offense is that bad. For the past 20 years, since I was old enough to understand and truly FOLLOW baseball I’ve had good Yankees teams to watch and even when they’ve sucked I’ve always had Jeter to watch cuz you never knew what special thing he would do next. Next year is shaping up to potentially be one of the saddest summers of baseball I’ve ever experienced.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      If you were ten years older, you’d have watched a lot more bad Yankee teams.

  • Jorge Steinbrenner

    How are the tuna wraps, Dr. Ahmad? Are the chocolate chip cookies to your satisfaction?

  • Derek Jeter

    SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL

  • Derek Jeter

    HERE LIES THE PROBLEM: Baseball in general has been extremely boring this year. Lets face it, all this mediocrity across baseball is no fun. Teams “somehow”(PED removal) cant score anymore, then combine that with my favorite team shitting the bed and you have, more time to do summer things.

    • Darren

      It’s not just the PEDs, it’s the removal of amphetamines.
      To compensate, every player should be allowed one eight ball a week to use as and when they see fit.

  • RetroRob

    That’s a tough choice between last year’s team or this year’s team being the most boring. As I was out of the country for large periods last season, I may not have the full flavor for last year, but I do remember thinking it really was boring. I think it was worse than this year’s.

    As for Tanaka, while my initial reaction was to be positive and to assume it was a precaution, I’m concern level has raised much more over the past 24 hours based on the sequence of things:

    First, he was just going for a precautionary MRI. Then, after the MRI, there are somehow no doctors to review it. I don’t believe that. Somehow has already reviewed them. Next, after the MRI, he’s put on the DL and next we hear he’s flying off to Seattle to meet with Dr. Amhad. With the All-Star break upcoming, they could have simply elected to rest him and wait for the Dr. to return. These actions strike me more as one of escalating concern on the part of the Yankees once he had the MRI, which I believe has already been reviewed by doctors, but not the main doctor, Amhad. And, oh yeah, Girardi seemed bummed all day, even after the Yankees win.

    So maybe I’ve now fallen victim to RAB paranoia, but my concern level has moved up quite a bit.

  • Ken

    Fair weather fans posting here equals little to listen to.

  • ChuckIt

    What is with all these trade scenarios being posted? What do you guys want,an entirely new roster?Your suggested scenarios sound a lot like Met fans’famous fantasy trades-their BUMS for top flite talent.Get real.

  • ChuckIt

    Just one for the road:Pre-season strengths-starting rotation,revamped offense.At the ASB-both weaknesses.What now?