When Pedro wanted to be a Yankee

The upcoming apprenticeship of John Ryan Murphy
Wednesday Night Open Thread
(Photo via @SI_Vault)
(Photo via @SI_Vault)

Yesterday afternoon four players were elected to the Hall of Fame, including ex-Yankee Randy Johnson and longtime Yankees rival Pedro Martinez. Johnson eventually arrived in New York in 2005 after the Yankees — and George Steinbrenner in particular — had wanted him in pinstripes for years, dating back to his time with the Mariners.

Aside from the whole “he’s one of the best pitchers in the game and would be great on our team” thing, I don’t remember the Yankees longing for Pedro the way they did Johnson all those years. As it turns out though, Martinez wanted to be a Yankee, and the club was close to acquiring him a few times over the years. Here’s what Pedro told Christian Red earlier this week:

“I was almost traded to New York more than once. A lot of people don’t know that. I wanted the trade to happen. I wanted out of Montreal. I wanted to go to the best team out there,” Martinez told the Daily News during a December interview in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic, when he attended David Ortiz’s charity golf event. “I saw John Wetteland, Marquis Grissom, Larry Walker go to different teams. But the one that ended up winning most of the time was the Yankees.”

“I saw Wetteland become a champion right away. I wanted a team like that. I was in trade talks every year. Every year it seemed like the Yankees were in it,” said Martinez. “So I wanted to go to one of those teams that would give me a legit chance to win.”

Back during the mid-to-late-1990s, the Yankees always seemed to be seeking an ace-caliber starter even though the team was very successful and had solid veterans around a young Andy Pettitte. That search led them to Roger Clemens in 1999 — Clemens had just won back-to-back Cy Youngs with the Blue Jays — but they always seemed to be after guys like Johnson and Chuck Finley. Apparently they were after Pedro too.

The Expos traded Martinez during the 1997-98 offseason because he was a year away from free agency and they wouldn’t be able to afford him, so off to Boston he went for Carl Pavano and Tony Armas (who the Yankees traded to the Sox for Mike Stanley). You laugh now, but Baseball America ranked Pavano as the ninth best prospect in baseball before the 1998 season and Armas was a year away from jumping on top 100 prospects lists as well. They were a big deal back then.

Pedro wanted to come to New York and was disappointed to go to the Red Sox, who were swept in three games by the Indians in the 1995 ALDS, their only postseason appearance from 1991-97. Here’s more from Martinez, via Red:

“When I was traded to Boston, I was shocked. Boston had finished in (fourth) place (in ’97), just like (Montreal). I had asked (Expos manager) Felipe (Alou) and Jim Beattie, the (Expos’) GM at that time, to at least give me the honor to trade me to a team where I would have a legit chance to win, to contend,” said Martinez. “It was the total opposite.”

You folks all know what happened after that. Martinez put together one of the most dominant stretches in baseball history, the Red Sox contended and eventually won their first World Series in nearly a century, thanks in large part to Pedro. He was the centerpiece of those late-1990/early-2000 Red Sox teams and always seemed to be in the middle of something whenever he faced the Yankees.

But imagine if Pedro was on the other side and doing all of that in pinstripes. The Yankees didn’t have the prospect power to match the Pavano/Armas package — according to Baseball America, their top prospects heading into 1998 were Rickey Ledee (ranked 46th in baseball), Mike Lowell (71st), and Jackson Melian (91st), and the Expos didn’t need Lowell because they had a young Shane Andrews — especially since Montreal seemed to focus on pitching, so it wasn’t necessarily a case of not wanting to surrender the prospects. They simply didn’t have them.

Had the Yankees been able to land Martinez though, man everything would be different. He was a true difference-maker, the kind of player who shifts the balance of power within a division, but the Yankees were already atop the AL East anyway. Would the 1998 Yankees have actually been better with had Pedro instead of, say, Hideki Irabu, who they picked up that offseason? Or does it mean they still would have acquired Irabu but passed up Orlando Hernandez in Spring Training?

Trading for Pedro almost certainly means no Clemens during the 1998-99 offseason, which opens another can of worms. As Buster Olney wrote at the time, Clemens had a full no-trade clause and was using it to control his market, with the Yankees or one of the two Texas teams his preferred destinations. Martinez in pinstripes could have meant Clemens with the Rangers, and, in case you forgot, the Yankees and Rangers met in the 1999 ALDS.

And, of course, what in the world happens in 2003 and 2004? There’s no Pedro to blow Game Seven for the Red Sox in 2003 and no Pedro to help the Red Sox come back from down three games to none in 2004. Are the Sox even relevant those years without Martinez? He helped turn that whole franchise around. No Pedro could mean no Manny Ramirez in 2001 because Boston would have been a less desirable destination for trade targets, and geez, no Manny in Boston means a lot more wins for the Yankees from 2001-08. He crushed the Yanks.

In the end, this is all a guessing game. A trade to the Yankees would have changed Pedro’s entire career path — he would have worked with different coaches, with different trainers, with different teammates, in a different ballpark and city, it would have changed everything. And, considering what he turned into, it’s likely he would have been a worse pitcher with the Yankees than he was with the Red Sox. Me? I think Pedro would have been a boss in pinstripes and the team would have been even better in the late-90s/early-00s, winning another World Series or two. But that’s just me.

Pedro getting his wish and coming to New York would have changed everything for everyone, and that’s why it’s so fun to think about. Endless hypotheticals.

The upcoming apprenticeship of John Ryan Murphy
Wednesday Night Open Thread
  • blake

    There was a rumor of a Rivera for Pedro trade that almost happened that was floating around a couple of years ago…..

    I know it’s blasphemy to say but if everything else was equal the yanks probably win more titles with Pedro than Mo

    • SweetSpot

      I am sculpting an effigy of you right now and scouring the house for pins and needles.

      • blake

        I hate myself for saying it but it probably true

        • RetroRob

          It’s hard to say. Many thought the difference between the Yankees and other teams back then during their dynasty run was Mo in the postseason. Look how often closers fail in the postseason. Rivera on the Braves? They probably win a couple more titles. The Yankees also had an exceptional starting staff that performed well in the postseason. I wouldn’t change it, but I can see the argument.

          • blake

            I love Mo…..but I’ve always felt like they won all those titles mostly because of the rotation and having 3 HOF caliber players and 2 or 3 more very good ones in the lineup. Having Mo was certainly great……but they had a lot of leads to protect that he had nothing to do with making.

            Not trying to take anything away from Mo at all…..it’s the position he played

            • RetroRob

              I understand closers are overrated, but you’re underestimating the impact Mo had in the postseason. Think about that streak he put up, the close games, Torre bringing him in during the 8th inning. And we saw when he would have the occasional hiccup in later years how damaging it would be. Bye-bye 2001 World Series. There is no room for error.

              The Yankees were making the postseason, and basically winning their division every year. How is Pedro helping there? They had big-game pitchers. The Yankees could be down two games in a five game series, but they had Cone and Wells and El Duque and then Clemens and Andy to take the hill. I really don’t think Pedro would have made a difference. Not having Mo ’96-00 in the postseason? Big difference. I recognize what you’re saying, but as I’ve thought it through, no way I would trade Mo.

            • RetroRob

              I understand closers are overrated, but you’re underestimating the impact Mo had in the postseason. Think about that streak he put up, the close games, Torre bringing him in during the 8th inning. And we saw when he would have the occasional hiccup in later years how damaging it would be. Bye-bye 2001 World Series. There is no room for error.

              The Yankees were making the postseason, and basically winning their division every year. How is Pedro helping there? They had big-game pitchers. The Yankees could be down two games in a five game series, but they had Cone and Wells and El Duque and then Clemens and Andy to take the hill. I really don’t think Pedro would have made a difference. Not having Mo ’96-00 in the postseason? Big difference. I recognize what you’re saying, but as I’ve thought it through, no way I would trade Mo.

            • yclept

              Exactly. Mo cannot become Mo if the rest of the team doesn’t do their job. What makes Mo great is that when the rest of the team did do their jobs, he secured it like no other closer in history…especially in postseason play.

              • RetroRob

                Then how is having Pedro going to better the Yankees since they’re already making the postseason? They’d still make the postseason, but there is no Mo to give the ball to.

                • blake

                  You may not have needed to hand the ball to Mo as often with prime Pedro dominating the other team 2 or 3 of the 7 games.

                  For example…..do the Giants win the WS this year if you take away Bumgardner and add Rivera to that club? No way……a closer cannot have that level of impact…..they pitch like 3 or 4 innings a series

                  • Mayan Brickann

                    See also: Hershiser, Orel circa 1988

              • RetroRob

                Then how is having Pedro going to better the Yankees since they’re already making the postseason? They’d still make the postseason, but there is no Mo to give the ball to.

              • Mayan Brickann

                This is true. Mo was Mo because of the teams he was on much moreso than the Yankees were the Yankees because they had Mo.

                • blake

                  Again I love Mo but when writers act like he was the most important player on the dynasty clubs it’s pretty silly IMO

                  • Mayan Brickann

                    His brilliant postseason record aside, I honestly doubt the Yankees have any fewer titles than they have today if someone other than Mo is their closer.

                    • RetroRob

                      I guess you haven’t been watching the postseason over the years.

                    • Mayan Brickann

                      I have, actually. I also know that the position/job of closer is massively overrated. I don’t doubt for a second that any decent closer other than Mo would have the same 4 rings Mo does were he on the Yankees from 1998-2009. Might have required an extra game or so per postseason to get it done, but I believe it would have gotten done anyway.

                    • blake

                      I don’t know…..that’s a really tough question to answer. He was very valuable and got a lot of big outs. The margin for winning and losing in a 7 games series can be super thin sometimes

                    • whileaway

                      8-1 0.70 ERA 42 Saves in 146 innings

                    • blake

                      Just remember though that the rest of the team had to get 42 leads for him to save……that’s 8 innings of work vs 1 inning of work every game. Again I don’t want to take away from mo…..he’s the greatest ever at what he did….

                    • Mayan Brickann

                      I can be super thin, but it wasn’t for the Yankees. 1998-2000 Yankees were 33-8 in the postseason. Rivera had 17 saves in that stretch, but only 4 were of the “protect a 1 run lead” variety. Let’s say for the sake of argument it’s a closer lesser than Mo. The Yankees go what, 33-12 instead? You want to make the argument they miss the 2000 playoffs w/o Rivera, I guess you could make it, but they were still far superior to a then weak AL East that the Yankees led by 9 games in mid-September before going 3-15 down the stretch.

            • yclept

              Exactly. Mo cannot become Mo if the rest of the team doesn’t do their job. What makes Mo great is that when the rest of the team did do their jobs, he secured it like no other closer in history…especially in postseason play.

          • blake

            I love Mo…..but I’ve always felt like they won all those titles mostly because of the rotation and having 3 HOF caliber players and 2 or 3 more very good ones in the lineup. Having Mo was certainly great……but they had a lot of leads to protect that he had nothing to do with making.

            Not trying to take anything away from Mo at all…..it’s the position he played

          • Canarsie Yankee

            Especially over folks like Mark Wohlers and John Rocker. Though it’d be interesting to know what would have happened to Smoltz if Rivera were Rivera but on the Braves.

          • Canarsie Yankee

            Especially over folks like Mark Wohlers and John Rocker. Though it’d be interesting to know what would have happened to Smoltz if Rivera were Rivera but on the Braves.

            • RetroRob

              Oh, yeah. The Braves said it themselves. If they had Mo, they would have been the Yankees of the last 90s, and they’re right.

              • Canarsie Yankee

                A hell of a team. Just had bad luck in drawing opponents that decade.

                • RetroRob

                  They were a dynasty that ran across another dynasty. One that had Mo. In reality, though, their bullpen was their weakness that prevented them from getting back to the World Series. It wasn’t their starting pitching, it was their bullpen, which gets back to why Mo was so valuable.

        • RetroRob

          It’s hard to say. Many thought the difference between the Yankees and other teams back then during their dynasty run was Mo in the postseason. Look how often closers fail in the postseason. Rivera on the Braves? They probably win a couple more titles. The Yankees also had an exceptional starting staff that performed well in the postseason. I wouldn’t change it, but I can see the argument.

      • blake

        I hate myself for saying it but it probably true

    • SweetSpot

      I am sculpting an effigy of you right now and scouring the house for pins and needles.

    • Preston

      Sure the trade proposal wasn’t Ruben Rivera? That would have been a great trade.

  • whileaway

    I guess it depends on how you look at it. I always thought all praise be to Grady Little for leaving Pedro in to long .
    Aaron Boone deserves his two HOF votes

    • RetroRob

      Love to know which two reporters voted for Boone for the HOF. It had to be based on that one swing of the bat.

    • RetroRob

      Love to know which two reporters voted for Boone for the HOF. It had to be based on that one swing of the bat.

  • whileaway

    I guess it depends on how you look at it. I always thought all praise be to Grady Little for leaving Pedro in to long .
    Aaron Boone deserves his two HOF votes

  • whileaway

    for a stretch of 7-8 years Pedro was arguably the best RHSP that MLB has ever seen. Unit not to far behind as a LHSP.

  • whileaway

    for a stretch of 7-8 years Pedro was arguably the best RHSP that MLB has ever seen. Unit not to far behind as a LHSP.

  • Canarsie Yankee

    It would have been great to have had Martinez in pinstripes at any point in his career, but he was an awesome rival that made those years even more fun, even though the Yankees blew it in 2004.

  • Canarsie Yankee

    It would have been great to have had Martinez in pinstripes at any point in his career, but he was an awesome rival that made those years even more fun, even though the Yankees blew it in 2004.

    • whileaway

      Yanks held their own vs. Pedro. 11W- 11L lifetime. I think they nailed him for a loss in the 2009 WS didn´t they ?

      • Canarsie Yankee

        Mike posted ’09 Game 6 clips on the HoF post yesterday. Martinez was tagged for two losses in that series.

        • whileaway

          that´s right. I forgot. Yanks were 4-1 vs. Pedro in postseason.

      • blake

        He was a shell of himself in 2009…..the yanks figured Pedro out later on in Boston but he killed them for a good while before that

        • whileaway

          yes I know.

    • whileaway

      Yanks held their own vs. Pedro. 11W- 11L lifetime. I think they nailed him for a loss in the 2009 WS didn´t they ?

    • dickylarue

      He was one of the great sports villains for me hands down.

      • Jorge Steinbrenner

        Perfectly put. He was a great villains; but I still have crazy respect for him.

        That’s what made the trip of Pedro, Manny, and Papi so hard to watch. Such great foils, but I respected each one as a player greatly.

  • dickylarue

    I always lusted after the Expos players. That team was exciting. I would’ve lost my mind if we got Vlad, Pedro, Larry Walker and Moises Alou when the Expos were letting them go. I had a weird Mike Lansing crush for awhile there too. We eventually got Cliff Floyd and Rondell White but they lost their Canadian mystique in pinstripes.

  • Mayan Brickann

    Pretty sure Armas was once Yankees property, but was sent to Boston for Mike Stanley or someone like that.

    • dickylarue

      Yes, he was traded to Boston for the return of Mike Stanley in 1997.

  • pfoj

    I currently have Pedro in 1997 in my OOTP franchise. I’m a legit WS contender, but he has to be dealt soon. I’ll try my best to send him to New York for everyone.

    • Canarsie Yankee

      Hey, yeah, I have OOTP 15 on my laptop. Could be fun.

  • blake

    Would love to do the 2001 WS over with Pedro in the rotation…..

    • tom ballaro

      Or he would have need TJ surgery in 2001 and would have been out for the whole post season. Maybe they don’t even make the post season in 2001. They may have only won the 1996 WS if they made that trade. Minds…Blown…

  • http://batman-news.com nyyankfan7

    “A trade to the Yankees would have changed Pedro’s entire career path — he would have worked with different coaches, with different trainers, with different teammates, in a different ballpark and city, it would have changed everything.”

    Everyone remember this when you complain about the Yankees trading Melky Cabrera or anyone else for that matter who excelled elsewhere.

  • JLC 776

    I’m happy with history being the way it is with regards to 98-00, but boy would it have been fun to have had Pedro in 2001 and 2002.

  • dickylarue

    If we had gotten Pedro when the Red Sox did I believe NY would’ve shut down for a few hours on days he pitched. He had a lot more magnetism than a guy like Clemens and he loved the big stage. He would’ve been an event.

    That said, I’m glad he went to Boston; There was physical visceral feeling I’d get as a fan when the Yankees would outlast Pedro or finally spank him. It was like watching Rocky knock out Clubber Lang. The game is so boring these days and the players don’t play with the same ego and animosity they used to. I loved how the Red Sox would storm in here with a chip on their shoulder and the Yankees would defend the gates until they didn’t in 2004.

    • RetroRob

      I agree. He was the best pitcher going against the best team. He would have their way with them at times, but then they would also wear him down at others. Great battles.

      • dickylarue

        You could literally see the sawdust dripping from Jorge’s bat because he was holding it so tight when he faced him. And then you knew Pedro would hit Jeter just to amp up the insanity. He liked pitching when things were off the chain.

    • blake

      I mean I wouldn’t change a thing about what happened during that time period…..it happened as it should have happened.

  • blake

    Said this below but if you took Bumgardner off the 2014 Giants and added Rivera in his place then do the Giants still win? I think given the way the rest of their rotation pitched they might have lost in 4 or 5 games…….a closer simply can’t have the same level of impact as a dominant starter can …..in a playoff series or in the regular season

    • RetroRob

      Bad analogy. The Giants were a mediocre team that had no other pitching besides Bumgarner. The Yankees had starting pitching. We’re talking about the value of Mo to those teams. Don’t compare the 2014 Giants to the Yankees of the late 90s.

      • blake

        It’s not really though…..it’s about the impact that a player can possibly have. A closer can’t have the same sort of impact that Bumbgardner or a prime aged Pedro could habe

        • RetroRob

          You’ve entered straw man territory.

          • blake

            I don’t think so because my point is about value…..a closer cannot impact the same way that a starter can.

            I dominant starter can literally almost win a game by themselves……the very best closer still needs 8 innings of help before they can even do their job

      • Preston

        The upgrade in the regular season would have been clear. Handing the ball to Pedro instead of Irabu or Mendoza or literally anybody on the planet would have been better. But those teams were great, and in the post-season that 9th inning is magnified. Pettitte, Clemens, Cone, Wells, El Duque are all inferior pitchers. But I’ll take any of them in a PS game over Martinez if I get Mo to close it out. Now that’s not factoring in the fact that the Yankees wouldn’t have sat on their hands, they would have found a solid replacement. But in the post-season, nobody was Rivera.

        • blake

          Gimmi the dominant starter 3 times in a 7 game series over any closer……the Yankees were a much better team than the 2001 Dbacks……the Dbacks beat them with 2 starting pitchers more or less.

          • TripleShortOfACycle

            But to your point the Yanks never sniff a game 7 with Kim blowing chunks and also without Mo blowing game 7 the Yanks win. Might be the wrong series to try and prove your point

        • RetroRob

          Yup.

    • dickylarue

      The problem with debating whether we’d win with a great starter over Mo in the past is Mo still had to get those outs – most starters were gone by then in the game. If Mo wasn’t here, it wouldn’t have been Pedro or Randy Johnson throwing multiple innings to end a game. It would’ve been a closer/reliever who wasn’t as great as Mo.

      I don’t think we’d win more titles with Pedro vs. Mo if that’s the trade off. Because you still needed a guy with ice water in his veins to end the games and not fall apart. Mo was the equivalent of having a healthy rested ace to pitch the last few innings of a game. That’s rare.

      • RetroRob

        Something that happens ALL THE TIME during the postseason. I’m not entirely dismissive of what Blake is trying to say. I just don’t think he understands the value that Mo brought to those teams in the postseason. Those Yankee teams had hitting and they had starting pitching. Removing Mo makes them weaker.

        • blake

          Oh I understand it…..of course removing Mo would make them weaker in the bullpen…..adding Pedro would have made them stronger in the rotation though.

          I mean it’s all hypothetical and it’s hard to argue with 4 titles in 5 years……as I said…..even though I’m having this discussion I wouldn’t change a thing about what actually happened

          • RetroRob

            No, I get it. As I said, I’m not dismissive of your point. Pedro is just about the only pitcher who would make me hesitate. I’ve had a similar type discussion with friends. I believe that Mo would have been a great starting pitcher. He just never got the chance once he pulled it all together. He never had that cutter when he was a starter. So the question is if Mo would have been a front-line starter, would the Yankees have been better off? Normally I would always say yes. A starter is more valuable than a closer. Yet in Mo’s case I’d leave him right where he was, in the bullpen. All what-ifs. We’ll never know.

            We should enjoy the four titles in five years and three in a row because we’ll never see a team do that again is my guess. That’s also why Mo blowing the save in the 2001 World Series remains the one I want back. Four in a row would have been more impressive in today’s playoff situation than the five in a row two Yankee teams did in the past. I’m still not sure if the four out of five is not as impressive.

            Anyway, I’m moving out of this conversation for now!

            • blake

              The 2001 WS will haunt us all forever…..they should have won…..they still did win on my book.

              • Mayan Brickann

                Truth is, they should have lost in 5 games. Raw emotion of that October/November was like nothing else and Games 5&6 were straight nuts. It was crushing, but I think the right team won.

                • RetroRob

                  Best World Series of the last 20 years from a strictly baseball point of view. Exciting as hell. As a Yankee fan, less so, but I will still watch the replay of those games at Yankee Stadium, even though I know the ending.

                • blake

                  Randy and Curt at the height of their powers would have beaten most teams……those 3 games in NY were probably the most intense and greatest games I’ve watched in my lifetime …..

                  • Rick

                    Certainly some of the more meaningful games in baseball history from a societal standpoint.

                • Ninja0980

                  Indeed they should have.
                  The reality the Yankess couldn’t even hit the pitchers not named Johnson and Schilling as shown in game 5.
                  Only Brenly bringing inym made it go 7 games.

              • sadieprincess

                yanks scored 14 runs in the series. they were very fortunate to go 7. still my fav ws.

            • Mayan Brickann

              Assumes some facts not in evidence, but mighta been 5 in a row if not for that Alomar bomb in Game 4 of the ALDS in 1997.

      • blake

        Yea but how any games did they lose because a lesser pitcher started? We will never know

    • whileaway

      I remember the 1988 and 1990 WS . Eckersley blew 2 crucial save opportunities. I´m sure if the A´s win each of those 2 games the series outcome would have been quite different.

      • Mayan Brickann

        Eckersley didn’t blow a save in 1990, though he did come into the 10th inning of Game 2 and lose to the Reds. They got drilled in that series anyway. 1988 was a biggie though. Left the A’s down 1-0 and facing Hershiser, who was untouchable at that point. But those things happen even to the great ones.

      • blake

        Maybe if Pedro had started those games they would have had bigger leads

        • Sai H

          Maybe Pedro gets shelled in those games, it goes both ways.

          We’ll never know for certain and the pitchers who pitched in these games weren’t bad either.

  • Leftballer

    Pedro pitching in Nyc for the NYY during his prime would’ve been a weekly event bar none.

  • twenty1miles

    I was going to mailbag a similar question. Very prescient of you Mike.

  • dave_8

    At least he didn’t bring up the mango tree this time. But I’m sure we’ll hear about it in his Cooperstown speech.

    • RetroRob

      Maybe he’ll bring the midget to the HOF ceremony. No, I don’t mean Pedroia.

      • Christopher Tracy

        Clap, clap, clap. Lol

      • Mayan Brickann

        I believe the midget has been filed under D

    • Canarsie Yankee

      I heard that at one time he was sitting under a mango tree without bus fare.

  • novymir

    Throwing Zimmer to the ground made Martinez a thug in my book. Drilling Jeter and Soriano back to back, sending them to the hospital in a game should have suspended.

  • calripyankee

    Pedro wouldn’t have been the media darling he was, if he had played for the Yankees..

  • blake

    Next lets debate if Jeter and Nomar were switched at birth

    • Canarsie Yankee

      That’s not as much fun to think about. Though I was surprised Garciaparra played until 2009. He fell off the face of the earth to me after he left Boston.

      • vicki

        i actually own a garciaparra dodgers jersey.

        • Mayan Brickann

          Use it to wash your car?

          • vicki

            it was a gift, a gag one. but i couldn’t hate him after he left boston. fans turned their backs on him, my enemies’ enemies, and that kind of thing.

    • tbone1570

      Doubtful, from behind Jeter looks like every man in his mother’s side and no in the family had a beak like Nomar.

  • YankeeFan™

    he also wanted to be a yankee as a free agent right before he went to the mets. i heard that rumor when i was in dr that winter, he was a huge fan of Steinbrenner.

  • Christopher Tracy

    It was must see tv for me when Pedro pitched against the Yankees, it always seemed like the Yanks would hang around and build up his pitch count and get him out of the game. He played the role of villain well but I would have loved to see him wearing the pinstripes, wouldn’t have to worry about the batters getting hit then lol. Very worthy of the HOF, he and Maddux for me were the best of the era.

  • vicki

    he would have to have kept his hair tidy, which would’ve been better for everybody. i can appreciate a sweet fro, but he looks like he’s growing black broccoli from under his hat.

    • Stevie Sacs

      His hairdo was more of a Pascual Perez like jerry curl than a fro.

    • Canarsie Yankee

      Broccoli is good for you and tasty.

      • Mayan Brickann

        Looked more chia pet than broccoli to me, but yeah, broccoli is good.

    • The Great Gonzo
      • Canarsie Yankee

        Jheri curls 4 lyfe, yo.

        • The Great Gonzo

          Most of you are too young to know where this is from or too old to have ever seen it. But I know Tilapia and the Macho Man know.

          • Canarsie Yankee

            Wonder if it’s on Netflix; it’s been a while and I love that movie.
            Just let your so-o-oul glo baby.

            • The Great Gonzo

              Its been ALL over Comedy Central for some reason over the past few weeks…

              • Canarsie Yankee

                Happy Christmas and Merry New Year, possibly. I did cut cable, so I haven’t had the chance to stumble upon it.

          • Mayan Brickann

            Coming to America, right?

            • The Great Gonzo

              Bingo. Mayan Brickann is between the ages of 30 and 40.

          • cashmoney

            Coen Bro’s kentucky fried movie? that’s my guess.

            • The Great Gonzo

              false

  • Stevie Sacs

    To dream. Ahh to dream. It’s weird to not picture him as a red sox though. He really was a big part of the personality that team took on.

  • Rick

    The f’ing brim on that hat. Holy moly.

  • http://markfrancobaseball.blogspot.com/ Mark Franco

    I still wanna know why he was allowed to cut the bottoms of his sleeves….seems like a uniform violation of some kind to me.

    • http://markfrancobaseball.blogspot.com/ Mark Franco

      To the Internet! articles.courant.com/2001-05-03/sports/0105030180_1_sleeve-pedro-martinez-picked

  • cashmoney

    That was the theory I believe, Armas and Ruben Rivera would have gotten it done, we will never know. from 97-03 there was no one more dominant imo. Those era+ and whip were simply absurd, eye test wise he was Maddux like except he throw 96 and has a wilder repertoire.

  • bgardnerfanclub

    In the HOF press conference he still sounded like he liked the Yankees more than the Red Sox. I am sure Sox Nation loved that. He told Randy Johnson he was “lucky” to have been a Yankee.

    • blake

      I think he’s still pretty bitter about how things ended in boston

  • Jrock1974

    Pedro in Pinstripes would have meant no “Who’s Your Daddy” chant which happens to be one of my favorite parts of the rivalry

  • sadieprincess

    IF the yanks had signed mays….

    • RetroRob

      The Yankees could have signed Mays, Aaron and Robinson. They could have had their pick.

      • sadieprincess

        signing one could mean they win in ’60 and ’64. no?

        • RetroRob

          I guess you can never figure out what will happen in one series, but if they embraced signing black players earlier, and especially if they signed those three, the collapse of ’65 never happens.

          • sadieprincess

            signing all 3 made my head spin. easy.

  • Hankflorida

    Pedro like Whitey Ford had just over 200 wins and 100 losses and an ERA of under 3 and these stats show the dominance of these pitchers deserving to be in the HOF. Jim Katt has over 280 wins but does not make it to the Hall like Early Winn who just reached that 300 wins with a similar amount of losses of close to 240 as Kaat and a similar ERA of 3.5. Why is Wynn deserving and not Kaat if longevity is considered a mark of excellence?

    • Canarsie Yankee

      You could definitely make that argument. I’m not old enough to see either pitch, but their career stats (ERA+, bWAR, plus the HoF metrics shown on bRef) show a remarkable similarity. I’d probably have to chalk it up to differences in the voting populations that evaluated those two. Plus, Wynn got the magic round number.

      • Hankflorida

        The same argument can be made for Posada to get into the HOF as a catcher with all his championships as he had a higher BA then Fisk and Bench but had a 100 less homers and 300 less RBI’s but had about 1700 less at bats.

    • Mayan Brickann

      Tough to explain. I do think there are a lot better arguments for Wynn not being in the HOF than there are for Kaat being in.

  • sadieprincess

    was peak garciaparra better than peak jeter?

    • Rick

      You may be able to make the argument about their max performance, but Jeter’s peak lasted much longer.

      • sadieprincess

        can’t keep up with the newest lingo. i thought peak was max. anywho back in the day it was alex, nomar then jeter. how things changed!

      • Mayan Brickann

        Garciaparra was pretty much all peak. From 1997-2003 he had six 6+ WAR seasons (he was out almost all of 2001). After that he was invisible. 3 WAR combined over 6 seasons from 2004-2009.

      • vicki

        i was looking for a different arod quote, but came across this one, from a march 2000 piece on alex, nomar and jeter. it was the golden age of shortstops.

        “After 15 or 20 years then you can sit back and say he can do this better and he can do that better. But our careers are way too young to do that now. You have to wait until we’re all in Cooperstown.”

        http://articles.latimes.com/2000/mar/26/sports/sp-13004

    • RetroRob

      Yes.

      He was also on steroids.*

      *Unsupported claim because, well, he was a Red Sox player.

      • sadieprincess

        don’t say that. i’m a jeter nut but lusted after the mcfarlane jeter/nomar toy thing.

    • HoopDreams

      Nomars problem was he was best friends with the trainers table.

    • Mayan Brickann

      Definitely the former, but one has to wonder whether he owed it all to clean living.

      • sadieprincess

        fenway helped. but how much? and if jeter was in kc for instance he bats 3rd with more rbi.

        • Mayan Brickann

          Aside from 2003, not a great deal. From 1997-2000 he was killing it everywhere.

          • sadieprincess

            u got his road numbers? please.

            • Mayan Brickann

              Best I can do is year to year splits:

              1997: Home 11 hrs, 49 RBI, .819 OPS Road 19 hrs, 49 RBI, .976 OPS
              1998: Home 17 hrs, 61 RBI, .976 OPS Road 18 hrs, 61 RBI, .920 OPS
              1999: Home 14 hrs, 67 RBI 1.061 OPS Road 13 hrs, 37 RBI, .973 OPS
              2000: Home 7 hrs, 51 RBI 1.020 OPS Road 14 hrs, 45 RBI. 1.045 OPS
              2001: only played 20 games
              2002: Home 10 hrs, 55 RBI, .884 OPS Road 14 hrs, 65 RBI, .875 OPS
              2003: Home 18 hrs, 68 RBI, 1.050 OPS Road 10 hrs, 37 RBI, .687 OPS

              • sadieprincess

                wow. thank you sir.

  • HoopDreams

    Pedro trolling Boston, next up Ted Williams has a Yankee hat in his grave

    • sadieprincess

      on the road – joe d .333, ted .328. just sayin

      • Hankflorida

        At a bar and after many drinks, Yawkey and Topping agreed to trade Joe for Ted. It never came to pass when they sobered up, but Joe in Fenway and Ted at the Stadium could have shattered many more records.

        • sadieprincess

          yeah. sox wanted a young berra too.

        • The Great Gonzo

          Could you imagine Cashman and Cherington at a bar boozing it up? They might try and trade Stephen Drew amongst eachother or some shit, amirite??

          • Hankflorida

            You are right as I could never see Hal buying Babe Ruth from Harry Frazee as Colonel Ruppert did. If he owed The Yankees in 1919, Hal would never shell out a 100 grand as he is more the accountant then the gambler.

            • jjyank

              Why? He gambled $155 mil (really $175 mil with the posting fee) on a guy who had never thrown an MLB pitch just a year ago. Where is the evidence that he wouldn’t have bought Babe Ruth back in the day?

          • Canarsie Yankee

            Drew for JBJ. Gardner for Drew. One wicked hangover.

      • Preston

        .328/.467/.615 is still better than .333/.405/.610, just sayin. And there are a lot of reasons why a player would play better at home than the road that have nothing to do with the park dimensions.

        • sadieprincess

          ur right. but the point might be that joe hit .315 with lower hrs at yankee stadium which hurt him as much if not more than anyone ever. ted hit i think 361 at fenway. maybe he’d hit 380 at yankee stadium. but yankee stadium hurt joe.

    • Canarsie Yankee

      The hat was frozen.

  • Farewell Mo and Jeet

    So Pedro wanted to be a Yankee
    Just another example of Cashman failed.

    • UnKnown

      We’re still going to trot this out again in 2015 huh? RAB’s version of waterboarding is having to read this attempt at humor on every thread.

      • Canarsie Yankee

        RAB’s version of waterboarding is having to read this attempt at humor folks seriously argue this on every thread.

        FIFY.

      • pfoj

        Would you say the RAB commentariat failed?

  • Guest

    yeah i made this awhile ago. will cause a shitstorm.

    http://youtu.be/VCJAmG7NZ_4

    • pfoj

      I like how you say he hit “only .328” on the road in his career. The bum, Ted Williams, hit a measly .328/.467/.615 in his career in road games. I wonder if it’s too late to remove him from Cooperstown .

      • sadieprincess

        maybe if he swung at more pitches with men on base than protecting his numbers with walks. i don’t know cause i heard things!

        • pfoj

          They say that stuff about Joey Votto. It’s bullshit now and it was bullshit then.

          • sadieprincess

            i bow to you ur majesty

    • Preston

      What childish nonsense. Did all of Babe Ruth’s negative qualities stop his team from winning? Was Mickey Mantle a great leader of men? No, they were both drunk, self centered, ass-holes. They still won because great play wins baseball games, intangibles don’t put the bat on the ball, or the ball over the wall. And did Paul O’Neill practicing his swing in the OF cause the 98 Yankees to not be all they could be? Ted Williams was bitter because he played for an awful baseball team, with awful unappreciative fans. And going to fight in two wars for your country instead of being a professional baseball player makes you about as selfless as it gets and it also means you have all the leadership qualities a baseball player is ever going to need. The fact that the media of the time didn’t like him means less than nothing.

      • sadieprincess

        ahhh, ruth fuked up more than he should have, suspensions, the hot dog crap, trouble with gehrig, gaining weight and becoming a def liability later on. yanks could have won more. mantle’s teammates won’t agree with you, that’s for sure. the man played in pain. ted tried to avoind ww2 and saw no action.

        • pfoj

          Don’t believe any major league players saw real action on World War Two. It was thought that if someone like Joe D died in battle it would really hurt morale, so the players mostly hung around state side selling war bonds and such. Teddy only saw action in Korea because he was literally too good of a fighter pilot to be held back.

          I’ve never seen anything about Williams trying to draft dodge WWII and find it hard to believe, but either way the man could hit a god damn baseball.

          • tomingeorgia

            Jerry Coleman was a decoratesdMarine pilot, flew 57 missions and won a DFC. Bob Feller served on the USS Alabama in both the Atlantic and Pacific. Monte Irvin was an Army Engineer in France and Germany. Yogi Berra was in the Navy off Normandy on D Day. And there were many more in harm’s way.

            • pfoj

              Well, Yogi and Coleman didn’t debut until after the war. Irvin wasn’t a major leaguer, and from what I just read it sounds like Feller had to practically force his way into combat.
              I could be wrong, and I don’t mean to demean anyone’s military service, but the impression I was under was that the established major leaguers were kept out of combat as much a possible.

    • Canarsie Yankee

      LOL

      • sadieprincess

        lol. yes but lord bill james, i think, called teddy the albert belle of his day. still funny?

        • Canarsie Yankee

          It’s no secret that Teddy Ballgame was an asshole of a higher order. How does that make him overrated as a baseball player?

          • sadieprincess

            ’46, ’48 & ’49. not hitting when it counted. the absurdity of reg season numbers. just like aroid, a reg season wonder and playoff jerkoff. and teddycakes was a 2 tool player. nuff said.

            • Canarsie Yankee

              ROFL. That didn’t actually answer the question of what him being an asshole had to do with his baseball abilities, which, if there were only two tools, he sure used them to his advantage.

              I am curious why you’re attempting to spread the gospel of Williams being less than one of the finest players to have played the game at that level. It seems downright personal.

              • sadieprincess

                rofl? really? ted was hated for half his career in boston by all. a selfish player, like cobb. good for the team? like belle, aroid and rocker. get it now or still rofl? selfish as in not swinging at more pitches with men on base as was reported. ted in my opinion was not all that. all the number nerds need him to be great. like aroid and cobb.

                • vicki

                  it’s probably not worth replying to a fool, but a third of ted’s walks with runners in scoring position were of the IBB variety. a third. and when he wasn’t being walked intentionally how many good pitches to hit do you think the greatest hitter of all time got? still he ops’d 1.141 with risp good for a 106 tOPS+ (basically meaning he was a better player with risp than not). he had just about the same batting average (.331 to .332 for his career) and slugged .032 better with men on than without. you are just plain wrong.

                  • sadieprincess

                    tag teaming me? lol you 2 proved that you need ted to be this god to satisy your sabermetric needs. namecalling is so silly. what are u, 12? why does this vicki character have to resort to name calling if someone does not agree with her? and to answer ur question canarsie…bill james called teddycakes the albert belle of his day. he was hated for many reasons; trying to avoid ww2, spitting on fans, lousy with teamates and press.

                • Canarsie Yankee

                  Vicki addressed many of the stats in response, but I will have to add that even if Williams was completely selfish, he clearly improved the team with his performace, whatever the motivation. Sure, he didn’t do well in his one series, but I find it odd that you apparently expected him to carry the team singlehandedly in those few games yet bash him for being selfish for the rest of his 20+ years.
                  By the way, Belle was famously caught with a corked bat and apparently had barrels full of them. How does this equate to Williams possibly not swinging at bad pitches?

  • Guest

    yeah, i made this awhile ago. it will cause a shitstorm
    http://youtu.be/VCJAmG7NZ_4

  • The Great Gonzo

    I agree with most that Pedro as a villain was almost picture perfect. Loved to watch him pitch, he was the best pitcher of my lifetime so far. HOWEVER, someone has to say it so I suppose it should be me:

    If he was in Pinstripes, I have ZERO doubt in my mind he would have been indicted in the Mitchell Report. He threw 116 innings in 2001 with a rotator cuff injury and came back to pitch his best two professional seasons. No surgery, just some treatment… Also, his links to Angel Presinal, who is a suspected PED pusher, are suspect.

    Where there’s smoke, and no cap with a “B” on it…..

    • TB

      Well his connection to Angel Presinal would have locked him being in the Mitchell report if he was a yankee

    • Canarsie Yankee

      Excellent, I await the fireworks. /grabs life-killing snack of choice

      • The Great Gonzo

        It literally elicited no response. I am terribly disappointed. Imma go throw this over on OTM, THAT will start a shit storm.

        FOR THE RECORD, it is a theory I am pinching directly from Boston’s own Felger and Mazz (Boston’s EXCELLENT afternoon drivetime sports radio show). Also for the record, I am a fan. They’re goddam funny.

        • Canarsie Yankee

          That’s too bad, but I’m all for exploding that dirty bomb at OTM.

    • Mayan Brickann

      He two best professional seasons, and quite likely anybody’s two best professional seasons were 1999 and 2000

      • blake

        Yup

  • Mattycakes

    This will sound sort of strange I suppose, but I am glad that didn’t happen. He was one of the greatest parts of the NY/Red Sox rivalry; he was the Han Solo to our Evil Empire. And beating him when he was on the Phillies in 09 during the series? Classic stuff (even if he was just a shell of his former self).

  • Hankflorida

    Ted playing in Yankee Stadium and not being so patriotic to serve both in WW2 or the Korean War may have had the record for most home runs. Stan Musial was my favorite player in the National League and would go to Ebbets Field or the Polo Grounds to see him play. Stan the Man was a great great player but he was no Ted Williams when it came to hitting. Nobody was!

    • sadieprincess

      hmmmm. supposedly he tried to use his mom as an excuse to avoid enlisting in ww2. he was pressured by the press and management to finally go. he saw no action in ww2. ted was thought to be a very sefish player by trying to protect his stats. read that he could have swung at more pitches with men on base rather than walk. it was reported. give me stan the man in left every time. a winner and class act.

      • Hankflorida

        Williams joined the “Willing Lovers” (a nom de guerre taken from the squadron’s “WU tail letters) of VMF-311 at Pohang on Korea’s eastern coast in early 1953. Captain Williams flew 39 combat missions, his plane was hit by enemy gunfire on at least three occasions, and he was awarded three Air Medals before being sent home with a severe ear infection and recurring viruses in June. Williams was formally discharged from active duty on 28 July 1953, the day after a cease-fire in Korea went into effect.

        • vicki

          thanks, hank.

        • Canarsie Yankee

          He also chewed gunpowder and spit bullets at the enemy. Tetanus once contracted him.

          I’ll never talk smack about his war record. It speaks for itself.

      • vicki

        i’d love links to back any of this up, because to me it looks like a bad misreading of history. ted was kind of an asshole, but in a way i can respect. and his choosing to play the final day of the season with a .3996 batting average was nothing short of manly.

        • sadieprincess

          research it. it’s there.

          • vicki

            no, it isn’t. the boston media back-paged him a la alex. there’s nothing to support rumors about his draft dodging. the man served his country, twice. you should be ashamed of yourself with these vicious slanders.

            • sadieprincess

              now now vicki. its even there in wikapedia for starters. ask ur boy bill james about teddycakes. and stop being so high and mighty.

    • Preston

      It’s a long way to 714, but he had 36 in 1942 and 38 in 1946. I think 100 home runs for 43-45 would be pretty a pretty conservative estimate. Tack on an extra 40 or so for when he was gone for Korea. That would take him up past Mays (although Mays missed time for the Korean War too).

      • blake

        He said if he played in YS though…..if he playeed there and hadn’t went to war I think Ruth may have fell

      • Hankflorida

        You are right but I was thinking more about Williams playing in Yankee Stadium if Yawkee and Topping were not drunk when they made that deal. It would also have helped Joe D as he also lost a great deal of four baggers playing in the old Stadium. The Green Monster would have paradise for him as Joe could pull those outside pitches and DiMaggio playing half his games there could have meant a .400 season. If the trade was made, the Yankee pitchers would not be happy as Joe took a great many hits away from the opposition. Best fielder that I ever saw as he would make the most difficult catches look easy. I would sit in the bleachers and at the crack of the bat, I would see DiMaggio moving to the exact spot that the ball came down. You just had to be there to see it as stats do not tell the whole story.

        • sadieprincess

          joe’s ’39 .381 was his .400 year.

        • pfoj

          I’m insanely jealous of you for some of the players you must have seen live.

          • Hankflorida

            I did not see those rash of .400 hitters that came before Williams, and I may have said the same thing you said especially to those who saw Ruth, Speaker and even Ty Cobb.

            • blake

              Only MTU saw those guys play

  • sadieprincess

    ted or joe? mr baseball also made a vid picking joe over ted….here is a comment

    Richard Zachary 6 months ago

    MrBaseball is right on the money. Refreshing in a day and age of egalitarian imbecility to come upon a sensible summation of the relative virtues of two keynote players from baseball’s golden era. Teddy Ballgame was a persnickety DH who couldn’t run, throw or field worth a fart in a high wind. A much-ballyhooed student of the art of hitting, hunkering down in a cozy little ballpark that fattened averages across the board, Williams focused solely on his performance at the plate. The Kid tended to get his hits when they didn’t matter, banging out doubles or home runs in one-sided slugfests while reliably choking in the clutch. Williams emanated a solipsistic selfishness that tainted the clubhouse atmosphere and helped keep Boston among the also-rans for the duration of his career.

    Joe DiMaggio was not just “better” than Ted Wlliams — he played the game on a different level entirely. Joe D was probably the best outfielder in either league, in every year that he suited up. Williams was one of the worst. DiMaggio didn’t give a shit about his own batting statistics, doing what the situation called for regardless of the potential impact upon his batting average or slugging pct. With a rather motley crew of supporting players — Williams’ Bosox teams were far deeper in talent and performance, position by position, than those of the Bronx Bombers over the same era — DiMaggio helped his team to a string of pennants and world championships unmatched by any Yankee squad before or since.

    And here’s the clincher (as if one was necessary). Playing in a ballpark designed to favor the lefty Yankee sluggers of the 20’s and 30’s, offering a short right field porch that Bucky Dent could clear with a checked swing with cavernous 450 foot plus dimensions to center and left, DiMaggio put up statistics every bit as impressive as Williams’. No, strike that — more impressive. DiMaggio put up annual power numbers that outflanked those of Teddy Ballgame, while playing in a home park designed to be next to impossible for right-handed hitters. In neutral ball parks, DiMaggio consistently outhit Ted Williams, maintaining a higher batting average as well as bigger power totals.

    In my book, it’s a slam dunk. DiMaggio was simply better than Ted Williams, at the plate as well as in the field.

    • blake

      Ted because he wouldn’t have caused mick to destroy his knee…..and because he was the best hitter ever (non bonds edition )

      • sadieprincess

        ’46, ’48 & ’49. teddy had his shots. no excuses.

      • http://riveraveblues.com/ Mick

        my knee is fine

        • blake

          I meant the Mick knee we care about :)

          • Preston

            I care about Mick’s knees. I’m glad he’s in fine health.

    • Mayan Brickann

      DiMaggio put up statistics every bit as impressive as Williams’. No, strike that — more impressive.

      ===========================

      Interesting point insomuch as it’s total horseshit.

      • sadieprincess

        reg season numbers are bullshit. see teddyboy for ’46, ’48 & ’49. he had his shot.

    • Preston

      The argument for Joe Dimaggio is this and only this. He was a plus defender in CF instead of an average defender in the corner OF. That is it. Ted was the better hitter and had more longevity. The easiest of this drivel to dismiss is the idea that Williams had better teams. Joe came up playing with Lou Gehrig, who was the best hitter on the WS teams in 36 and 37 and a close 2nd to Joe in 38 before succumbing to ALS (looking back he was already suffering from the disease when he hit .295/.410/.523. For the entirety of the time he played he had either HOF catcher Bill Dickey or Yogi Berra on his team. Charlie Keller, Joe Gordon, Tommy Heinrich and Phil Rizutto were all great players that played on most of those WS teams. It wasn’t Joe D carrying around a bunch of slouches.

      • sadieprincess

        ted choked in ’46, ’48 and ’49. there is NO argument. teddyboy was the aroid of his day. we don’t agree. it’s ok.

        • vicki

          yay, the arod chokes in the playoffs chestnut. yay.

  • SweetSpot

    Mike please! Four hours of this Red Sox piece of blank staring at us is enough! :

  • Guest
  • sadieprincess
    • Canarsie Yankee

      Did Williams pee in your cereal in 1974 or something? This is quite a bit of effort.

      • sadieprincess

        no but teddycakes came up short in ’46, ’48 & ’49. how could the “greatest hitter of all time” fail? lmfao

      • pfoj

        We should all stop feeding the troll by now.

        • Canarsie Yankee

          It’s the last. I was just curious, vis a vis the cereal and pee thing. Clearly I either have too much time on my hands or not enough.

        • sadieprincess

          now now pfoj. trolls don’t go to the trouble of making 44 videos with great graphics to upset namecallers like you. calm down.

        • blake

          It’s weird that on a Yankee blog….a troll is defending a Yankee against a bunch of Yankee fans defending a red sock

          • sadieprincess

            more namecalling. not nice. it’s funny but i made the videos (44 of them) and it was a labor of love being a graphic designer.

        • Jorge Steinbrenner

          Older guy slightly obsessed with older players? Sure. Troll? No way, man.

          • vicki

            read on.

          • sadieprincess

            if that was sincere i thank u.

      • vicki

        blind homerism is not a new phenomenon.

  • Hankflorida

    Given the choice, I would choose DiMaggio over Williams because he was better all around player and the best center fielder that I have ever seen, but Ted Williams was a better hitter then any one that I ever saw. I started with Gehrig so I have seen many come and go but it is still hard to judge hitters of different eras. The later Bonds was the closest to Williams if I had to compare.

    • sadieprincess

      ted had his chances in’46, ’48 and ’49. hitting when it counts.

      • Preston

        Yes, keep boiling down Ted Williams career to 9 games. Obviously the best way to do it.

        • sadieprincess

          when a selfish big mouth proclaims to be “the greatest hitter that ever lived” he is held to a higher standard. reg season fodder is for sabermetric nerds.

          • vicki

            and idees fixes are for mental patients.

            • sadieprincess

              again with the childish comebacks. make your own video. stop being a hater. play nice.

              • vicki

                i’m not trash-talking you; i’m telling you you sound unstable.

                • sadieprincess

                  well thank you. feel better? wtf

        • sadieprincess

          u take teddy to start a team and i’ll take joe d. no prob. nice talking to u.

    • blake

      What if trading Joe for Ted meant joe wasn’t there to call mick off at the last minute and he never hurts his knee? Oh the dominoes that fall …

      • sadieprincess

        sox wanted berra also in the trade

    • sadieprincess

      joe was way over .400 in late ’39 but the mngr forced him to play through an eye injury. his .381 was great but could have hit wll over .400

    • blake

      Gehrig has one of my favorite swings ever……his swing was way ahead of it’s time. If you watch him hit on tape against most of the other guys of the era it was just so much more functional…..so much less wasted movement…..he kept the bat in the zone forever.

  • Dude

    I said it last night they could’ve had pedro

    • Sir Didi Odell Nakamura Jr

      congrats, too bad that’s when we all found out that the Yankees could’ve had Pedro.

      • Preston

        But he actually read it, comprehended it, and then correctly typed out a comment conveying that information. It’s a big accomplishment, don’t downplay it.

        • Canarsie Yankee

          So this is what being a father is like…hmm…

        • Sir Didi Odell Nakamura Jr

          Sometimes you have to be happy when the miracles happen and not dismiss them.

    • MikhelB

      I also said it a few years ago but i was looked at like I was crazy, stuff like that info rarely gets to the US while in hispanoamerica sometimes the players talk openly about it… like the whole backstabbing piece of s… Pedroia is, when he used Adrián González’s phone to send a SMS to the Red Sox owner asking for a meeting because they were not happy about something, Pedroia never attended and the only ones who were there were those who later were traded.

      Adrián said in an interview in México: that day I learnt to never lent my phone. Pedroia after that meeting said he respected the manager, the front office and their decisions, he threw people under the bus and those players never saw it coming.

      When that will be confirmed? Maybe never, when González said it he was really angry and in México talking to a journalist friend of him and his dad. while on mazatlan

  • Canarsie Yankee

    Here’s a question: If Martinez became a Yankee during his prime, would we have been spared the Roger in Steinbrenner’s box moment?

    • vicki

      no way. that was destiny.

  • I talked to Barzini

    Arguably the greatest pitcher of his generation. An undeniably unique player who was amazing to watch. But I will never forget what he did to Don Zimmer. That is the single most sick and disgusting act I’ve ever seen on a baseball field, without doubt. I have a high tolerance for character issues but maybe it’s better this prick was never on the Yankees roster.

    • Preston

      At the time this is how I felt. He entered a different level of hated athlete for me after that. But honestly what was he supposed to do? Zimmer came at him. He admitted in his apology that when the brawl started he was intentionally going after Pedro, he ran (using the word loosely) straight for him, and was apparently screaming at him as he went. I think he probably didn’t need to grab him by the neck and throw him down like that. I think Pedro could have have kept a frail old man at bay in much less violent fashion. But in the heat of the moment and an old man making a bee line for you, you react. I still think he’s a smug little prick. But the hatred has subsided a little.

      • vicki

        yes, all of this. he reacted, poorly, but out of instinct. the head-pointing gesture to jorgie – a tacit threat to thow at his head – wasn’t heat-of-the-moment, though.

        • blake

          Pedro and Jorge were both fiery and they helped fuel the rivalry back then…..it hasn’t been the same in a long time……In part because the two teams haven’t both been good at the same time as often…..but also because the players just aren’t as interesting

        • MikhelB

          To Karim, not Jorge. The whole issue of Pedro was against García and Jorge and others went out to face Pedro who was hiding behind other players… the worst yet was how two players held one of the Yankees in the ground while Ortíz took swings at that player, can not rememeber who it was, maybe Sturtze.

          • vicki

            i’m talking about the head-pointing gesture to the dugout. it was posada. he actually did nick karim’s helmet, right before the brawl.

            ps. i loved “karim garcia: regulator.”

      • dave_8

        That incident never bothered me at all. It’s the usual silly bravado. He half ole’d Zim; and Pedro isn’t a big dude. I think all that stuff is nonsense. What makes it worse is Michael Kay’s reaction to these bean ball wars. He gets all excited like a middle-school girl running down the hall telling everyone about the fight after school.

    • blake

      Yea that was bad…..Zimm shouldn’t have been out there but Pedro handled it really poorly

    • Dude

      2004 says hi

    • Jeremy

      if you don’t want to be involved in a brawl, don’t charge the field, pretty simple. Pedro didn’t seek about Zimm, it was the other way around.

      as for most disgusting acts on the baseball field, how about this one:

      http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/big-league-stew/10-years-since-william-ligue-son-attacked-tom-172223277–mlb.html

      • I talked to Barzini

        Zimm shouldn’t have been out there, and he was rightly embarrassed by the whole thing. Doesn’t change the fact that a professional athlete grabbed a 75 year old man by the temples and threw him to the ground. Maybe if Zimm was wielding a knife or a bat or something it would be justifiable, but he could have killed the guy! The whole thing was shameful and I didn’t even originally mention the fact that Pedro was yelling at our dugout in the middle of the game telling Posada he was going to hit him the dome. The guy has zero class.

        • MikhelB

          He was yelling to Karim García, not Posada. Posada happened to be near Karim but that’s it.

          • I talked to Barzini

            I got Posada from Verducci’s (and by extension, Torre’s) account of the incident. I don’t know if it’s right or not, but it changes nothing. Whether it was Garcia or Jorge, it was a fucking bush league move that warranted a firm response.

      • Oscar Agressott

        Thats what I was thinking.Hands down the worse.

  • Linden Walker

    I’m pretty sure this article is factually incorrect.

    Now, please correct me if I’m wrong but I recall this story differently. Pedro demanded a trade and his first choice was the Yankees. So, Montreal offered him to the Yankees first BUT for an inflated package of 4 players centered around Posada who they insisted was the key to any trade. The Yankees turned them down, so Montreal turned around and sent him to Boston for far less than what they asked the Yankees for. Afterwards, the buzz around the trade was that Montreal was sticking it to us because of long standing heat between their GM, Jim Beattie and George. Beattie was getting revenge for the disrespectful and well, abusive, to be honest, way he was treated by George in 1978. He was either going to force the Yankees to pay a ton for Pedro or trade him elsewhere and as such Pedro was a pawn in his quest for vengeance on the Boss

    I’m pretty sure that’s how it went down.

    • MikhelB

      Yes but no, Pedro did not demand to be traded, the Yankees approached the Expos who asked Armas+somebody else, the Yankees agreed but later the Expos upped their request and the Yankees did not follow, alas the Expos balked. The very next season Pedro was in the middle of a marvelous season and the Red Sox approached the Expos, they demanded Pavano+Armas in a possible 3 team trade, do not know what happened but the Red Sox were able to obtain Armas from the Yankees and their trade talks resumed after the season, still the Sox were upset that the Expos began to ask for more but in the end settled for Pavano+Armas Jr.

      As for Beatie, he had just traded Wetteland to the Yankees that 1996 when the Yankees looked to obtain Pedro, there did not seem to be any animosity but he liked to ask for more just as he was close to finishing a transaction.

      • Linden Walker

        The Wetteland deal impacted the Pedro talks. When the strike ended, the Expos ownership demanded that they trade off those guys before the season started (since that’s when they start getting paid) to anyone willing to take their contracts immediately. As a result of that, Beattie was supposedly bitter and determined to not give George a second star as a gift, and therefore held the Yankees up on the Pedro talks as a “make good” on Wetteland. That’s why he was asking for Posada in return plus like 3 other pieces.

        The animosity from Beattie towards George over 1978 was a big time part of the narrative at the time. I distinctly remember Mike & the Mad Dog talking about it for days and Gammons and others coming on WFAN with them and confirming it. There was a lot of “Beattie not wanting to hand George a new toy, he’s got to pay” stuff.

  • The Shanesaw

    Off-topic, I know, sorry (SHHHH) but today is Alfonso Soriano’s birthday. One of my favorites.

  • Dude

    As much as Pedro hurt the Yankees I think Manny would have been the better sign.

    • Sir Didi Odell Nakamura Jr

      Nah, Pedro when he was good > Manny. Both were incredible, but a starter is more valuable in my eyes.

  • LazerTown

    OMG MIKE.

    This is troll bait to the extreme.

    • vicki

      we’ve been surprisingly (and pleasantly) short on steinbrenner myth.

  • Hankflorida

    Pedro was not afraid to drive you off the plate like Bob Gibson as they both owned the inside corner. Give me a pitcher like Randy Johnson who like Koufax threw it in the middle of plate and dared you to hit it.

  • MikhelB

    I do remember when Pedro said he wanted to play for the Yankees and the Yankees were on the verge of acquiring him for Tony Armas Jr. and 2 other prospects but the Expos balked and at the last minute they demanded somebody else. After that happened the Yankees were approached by the Sox regarding Mike Stanley, the Yankees sent Armas to the Sox… little did they know that the Expos had asked for Tony but the Sox would not be either willing to make a 3 team trade or was never discussed.

    In the end the Expos got Armas because reportedly Felipe Alou wanted him as a piece in a trade, Alou was (is) friend with Tony’s dad (also called Tony) and had knew about Armas’s potential for a few years now.

    That’s at least what was known in México and other spanish speaking countries when word got out that Pedro had said he liked he Yankees and wanted to get out of Montreal.

    Also take in mind that the yankees talked to the Expos before Pedro had his Cy Young season in 1997, when he was in the middle of that season the value of Armas was not enough to get Pedro, but Pavano+Armas was, and the Yankees were not willing to part with Rubén Rivera + Armas in 1996 nor… I think it was Ford or somebody like that, a pitcher who was later traded to the Tigers.

    AND in part it is why the Yankees were willing to overpay for Javier Vázquez after they missed on Pedro (Choate+N. Johnson+ J. Rivera).

  • Bertin Lefkovic

    Imagine if the Yankees had sent Eric Milton, Christian Guzman, et al to the Expos for Pedro instead of the Blauch-head. What might have been indeed.

    • Canarsie Yankee

      Knoblauch was a stud, though. Few could have predicted it turning to shit that quickly.

      • Bertin Lefkovic

        He had a significant production dropoff from 1996 to 1997. Should have been seen as the red flag that it was.

  • CasanovaWong

    WHYYYYYYYYY