Domingo German needs Tommy John surgery, apparently

A trip through the MLBTR archives: March 2008
Monday Night Open Thread
(Presswire)
(Presswire)

According to a post on his Instagram account (journalism!), right-handed pitching prospect Domingo German needs Tommy John surgery. He was in New York recently to get checked out. It’s unclear if he’s already had the procedure or will have it soon. The Yankees have not confirmed anything.

German, 22, was acquired from the Marlins in the Martin Prado/Nathan Eovaldi trade in December. I ranked him as the club’s 11th best prospect last month. German is on the 40-man roster and was in big league camp, though he only pitched in one Grapefruit League game (March 17th). It’s not unusual for a young prospect yet to pitch above Low-A to see limited action in big league camp though.

While with the Marlins last year, German threw 123.1 innings after throwing only 67 innings in 2014. The huge innings jump could be to blame for his elbow woes, though it’s impossible to know how many innings German threw in Instructional League in the first half of 2013 before joining Miami’s rookie ball affiliate when the season started in late-June.

German had a 2.48 ERA (3.26 FIP) with good strikeout (22.4%) and walk (5.0%) rates in those 123.1 innings last year, all in Low Class-A. He was the Marlins’ lone representative in the 2014 Futures Game. German was slated to open the 2015 season in the High-A Tampa rotation.

Minor league option rules are complicated, so I don’t know if German will qualify for the fourth option when the time comes. He was just added to the 40-man roster this offseason, so that’s a long ways away. See you in 2016, Domingo.

A trip through the MLBTR archives: March 2008
Monday Night Open Thread
  • Kvothe

    Cue the “MARLINS WIN THE TRADE” posts.

    • dave_8

      Not so fast. The way Phelps throws his breaking pitches, I expect him to visit Dr Andrews in the near future.

    • blake

      Except that Eovaldi has been pretty incredible all spring

      • Giuseppe Franco

        He and his fellow young rotation mates is the primary reason I’m interested in watching this team.

  • König Lothbrok

    Aside for the 40-man roster thing (which I don’t understand at all, why would you put a A-ball player on it?) It’s not that big of a bummer for me. I’m much more interested in Eovaldi, like I was much more interested in Big Mike than in that Campos(?) guy..

    • Moncada’s Codpiece

      The Marlins had him on the 40-man because he was subject to the Rule 5 draft, having been in the minors for so long already. Rather than risk losing him (decent prospect after all), they added him. The Yankees apparently did not seem it was fit to DFA him for similar reasons, I imagine, so he was on their 40-man when he was traded.

      • König Lothbrok

        Oh, that I didn’t know. Thanks for the clarification.

        • Moncada’s Codpiece

          I seem to remember that being the reason. He started in rookie ball at the age 17 season, so he’s got a fair amount of minors service time while still being young.

          • König Lothbrok

            Yeah, the Marlins are crazy in that regard. A lot of youth. Eovaldi is also very young and what does he have? Like 400+ MLB innings behind his belt?, also Stanton and Yelich.

            • Moncada’s Codpiece

              If they’re ready, they’re ready. Eovaldi was a Dodgers farm piece; he was the haul for when the Marlins surrendered Hanley Ramirez. That’s what losing and selling off pieces can get you.

              • König Lothbrok

                Yup, like the Cubs. They’re packed! Bryant, Baez, Soler, Russell. Obviously not all are gonna become All-Star but man, those bats are powerful.

              • König Lothbrok

                Yup, like the Cubs. Baez, Bryant, Soler, Russell. Not saying all of them are gonna become the Cubs core four but man, those are some powerful bats.
                Can’t wait to watch how Bryant does when he gets to the Majors.

  • RetroRob

    I won’t believe any of this until I read an article from him on the Player’s Tribune.

  • Dick M

    Message from Hal and the Cash-man, “Give us your tired, your poor, your sore-armed pitchers yearning for Tommy John”.

    • Reggie C.

      this made me laugh

    • Jorge Steinbrenner

      The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, unless it’s the Cuban shore….

      • Dick M

        Well played Jorge.

        #asleeponthecubans

  • DeutschlandNY

    I just want to know who is to blame and start pointing fingers. Then to be kewl in twitter and whine about Cashman.

  • Mark Siciliano

    They knew he needed Tommy John so they put him on the 40 man to avoid losing him due to options issues.

    • ropeadope1

      The Marlins knew he needed TJS, so they traded him to us.

      • Moncada’s Codpiece

        All part of the Pineda racket.

        • ropeadope1

          Canarsie, I sent an email earlier today to the addy you have on file in the fantasy league. Had you received it?

          • Moncada’s Codpiece

            I did receive it and was looking over your roster. I’ve got a player in mind that I might want, but am thinking about whether I want to part with one of your targets.

            • ropeadope1

              Cool. First time I sent email, so just wanted to check that it went through. If you don’t want to part with one of those guys, please let me know who is available, and who you want from my roster.

            • Jorge Steinbrenner

              If he offers you Darren Sproles, run.

  • blake

    Bummer

  • YankeeFan™

    That sucks was really interested in seen how he was gonna do this season.

  • Looser Trader FotD™

    Well crap

  • Pete22

    What do Pineda, Campos and Gemran all have in common. All were young pitchers acquired in trades with great fastballs or potential. All went under the knife in short order. Teams know the players they are trading, as they should.

    I pointed out a link showing some teams, specifically the Nats, believe TJ Surgery has a shelf life of 8 years. Eovaldi is in his 8th year removed from TJ Surgery, and like Pineda had a poor 2nd half last year. Might explain why the Marlins traded an arm like this with 3 years of team control. Something to watch anyways.

    • Still Stucky

      I’m somewhat skeptical of that study unless they took the time to distinguish the TJS pitchers from the general population.

      I can’t imagine the average ML pitcher has a shelf-life of 8 years, much less a subset of one.

      How’d the study differeniate between pitchers who were out of the game after surgery and pitchers out of the game for any other reason?

      • LazerTown

        The number he threw out yesterday was 400-600 innings I thought.

        • Still Stucky

          okay, but again, i gotta imagine the avg career of ALL ML pitchers is relatively short.

          • LazerTown

            Yes, but a big part of it is ineffectiveness. Every year a team will bring up someone who pitches once and then never returns.

    • Farewell Mo and Jeet

      That’s 3 pitchers obtained in the last few years that soon needed surgery so while it can be chalked up to some bad luck as pitchers are dropping like flies all over baseball, if I’m in the Yankees front office the question I’m asking is are we doing everything we can reviewing medicals before trading for these guys.

      • LazerTown

        Who really knows though. 3 pitchers is an incredibly small sample size. If we talking about 20 players dumped on us then yes, but it is not inconceivable to have 3 need surgery.

        • Farewell Mo and Jeet

          I agree it’s SSS though I still think the question needs to be asked and the process of verifying the players health reviewed. The answer very well may be just some bad luck.

    • SweetSpot

      Oh bull crap.

      • Farewell Mo and Jeet

        Tell us how you really feel

        • SweetSpot

          I’m not one for inane conspiracy theories of any kind; especially ones which cite 3 examples suggesting professional GM’s intentionally deal players they know have a serious injury issue. While not mentioning the hundreds of others that don’t. And how do you think the GM’s know? Are the doctors betraying client privilege and ethics by telling the team and not the player?

          • Still Stucky

            Ummmmm, the thing people also need to consider if maybe GM’s KNOW they’re trading for high-risk players….

    • thunderdan162

      pineda’s 1.91 era in the second half was horrendous

      • LazerTown

        assume he is talking about Pineda’s 2nd half with the Mariners.

        • Dalek Jeter

          Still, apart from a little bit more contact, his second half wasn’t all that bad. He still struck out a batter an inning, still walked under 3 per 9, his WHIP was right around 1.2…people act like he fell off a cliff in the second half, but one look at some peripheral numbers show that his ERA increase was probably no more than some bad luck.

    • LazerTown

      And the veteran CC is sucking. You simply do not know, there isn’t really something you can conclude.

    • Ewing33

      I saw you post this the other day and it was very interesting. Clearly there was more to that Eovaldi trade than met the eye. Seems like predicting injuries, especially with pitchers, is a way to gain an advantage over opponents. So little is out there in the public realm regarding it, but you can be sure with millions of dollars on the line, clubs have accumulated tons of information on it that they are not sharing.

      Tommy John surgery has an approximate 8 year shelf life and Eovaldi had Tommy John 8 years ago. Coincidence? I think not.

      • LazerTown

        If it was a determinant I would think they trade him earlier. It’s not like you get to year 8 and it just rips apart. It’s simply an average.

        • Ewing33

          It is a factor to take into account. Who knows what anybody was willing to offer to them. It is not like getting Prado and Phelps for Eovaldi and Jones was such a great offer either. In fact, it looked like robbery from the Yanks end, but with this new information, maybe not so much. The trade seems much fairer now.

        • Now Batting

          Plus I’d imagine the median is much higher since lots of guys might throw a few innings then never again. Pitching in MLB for 8+ years is in itself a feat.

          • Ewing33

            All fair points. But I think it is clear that the Marlins viewed Eovaldi as a high injury risk, and maybe the Yanks had the same exact feeling about him. But as a fan, who didn’t know about this 8 year thing, it shines new light on the deal.

            • Now Batting

              Every starting pitcher that throws in the high 90s is an injury risk. I don’t think the 8 year average really has any application. Also in all my years reading these comments I’ve never seen anyone give Cashman credit for trading Arodyz Vizciano before he needed TJ.

              • Ewing33

                Not sure why this new information is getting such backlash and immediately dismissed. Seems like there could be something to this, in my opinion. Doesn’t mean I think after exactly 8 years a guy who had Tommy John will have his arm spontaneously explode on the spot, ha.

              • Now Batting

                Sorry if I’m wrong but it seems you are inferring that the Marlins somehow have something “on” Eovaldi that they suckered Cashman with. That thing being this 8 year average. That just seems really off-base to me. Shane Greene is 7 years removed and I’m not thinking phew we dodged a bullet.

                • Ewing33

                  You are wrong. I am saying the trade seemed like highway robbery to me for the Yanks, but now that I have this new information, it seems like a fair trade to me.

                  Only referring to myself … maybe you and others had a completely different opinion and this information changed nothing for you.

                • Ewing33

                  And regarding Greene, maybe you should be. I loved that trade, and now that you just informed me Greene already had Tommy John 7 years ago, it looks even better.

              • Literally Figurative

                What? Giving cashman credit for something? Surely you jest

  • pat

    Made no sense to me that he was included in that trade anyway. He was just the icing on top. I won’t say the Marlins hoodwinked us until something else bad happens. And then I’ll be crying somewhere so I won’t even see your post about it.

    • RetroRob

      A team most likely doesn’t trade a prospect or not trade for a prospect because of TJS. It adds an element of risk so it changes the equation related to cost. Who knows, maybe the Yankees were even aware there was an increased risk German needed TJS but still looked upon it as an opportunity to get a decent prospect by throwing in some money.

      The surgery for Torrens and now German is pretty common. More coming for all teams in 2015 and beyond.

  • Farewell Mo and Jeet

    At least he can keep Luis Torrens company during their rehab

  • Still Stucky

    Hate to be Derek Downer, but there’s going to be more players that miss most of the season. Be prepared.

    • dkidd

      tommy john surgery is the number one killer of domestic cats

      • Still Stucky

        and Aaron Judge can’t have children…

  • Dalek Jeter

    Eh, I considered that trade in 3 separate parts:
    Prado for Eovaldi
    Phelps for Jones
    Money for German.

    Sucks, but prospects be prospects, and prospects will break your heart.

    • Farewell Mo and Jeet

      Are you sure it wasn’t:
      Prado for German
      Phelps for Eovaldi
      Money for Jones

      Seriously, I think you have to take the trade a whole

      • LazerTown

        If you can I think it helps to break it down.

        • Farewell Mo and Jeet

          German is a pretty good prospect. I think it would have taken more than just some money to obtain him.

          • Dalek Jeter

            Not when that money goes to not having to increase payroll but obtaining a guy like Prado.

  • SweetSpot

    I believe that teenagers pitching too much before they are fully developed and not enough when they are adults playing pro-ball along with poor mechanics leads to much of the TJ surgery we have been seeing. I believe pros need to build arm strength and stamina and focus on their mechanics. When did Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton or Nolan Ryan get shut down for elbow surgery? Or many other starters back then? These guys threw hard and often topped 200 innings. If they has small tears they took a break and it healed. I’m no doctor or expert but that’s my considered opinion.

    • LazerTown

      But how many players completely washed out simply because they didn’t have the medical procedures? There are more surgeries, but is it because there are more injuries, or is it because now they can actually resolve the injuries? Quoting some of the GOAT does not really lead you to conclusions. You need much bigger ss.

      • SweetSpot

        I mention them because their opinions on pitching have more credibility than most. Because they threw hard and because they pitched a lot of innings building arm strength and stamina and they were not coddled. They are well known – but in their day starters in general just did not go down in great numbers needing elbow surgery. Ryan had a small tear one year I know, the doctor said take some time off, he did and it healed and never bothered him again. In 1975 there were 65 pitchers who threw over 200 innings. In 2012 just 31 which was the lowest since 1958.

        • LazerTown

          I’m not sure they do though. Some people are just genetically superior, and I don’t mean that in an offensive way. Some people work there ass off and are smart players, some are just made like machines and are naturally gifted. My point is that in their day instead of the starters going down and needing surgery they just got injured and never pitched again.

          • SweetSpot

            But starters didn’t go down in anywhere close to the numbers of today with UCL tears and they pitched more innings on 4 days rest; that’s been reported often and can’t be genetics which doesn’t manifest itself by generation . The question is why. Lots of contradictions. Many say Darvish pitched too much – others say not enough. Who knows.

        • http://fakediesel.com Isaac F.D. Yankem

          I’ll admit it, I coddle my children. If they want something, I buy it for them. If their arm hurts, I don’t tell them to tough it out, I just drive them to the hospital for another TJS. Kids today….what can you do.

          • SweetSpot

            Nailed it!

    • chicken_stanley

      Koufax isn’t the best example. His elbow shut him down at 30.
      I agree that Kids are throwing more nowadays… could definitely be a contributing factor in the rash of TJS we’ve seen the past several years

      • SweetSpot

        Good point mentioning Koufax – but from what I understand he retired prematurely because of a progressive arthritic deterioration of his left elbow not ulnar collateral ligament damage. I’m not sure there is a conclusive opinion on whether his type of arthritis was influenced by genetics or not – but pitching of course didn’t help.

        • chicken_stanley

          Yeah. Wasn’t trying to be petty… I probably shouldn’t have even mentioned it. At the time, it was deemed arthritis (and generally still is). I’ve read/seen speculation that it was more (no links – this was years ago)
          Back to the kids… I think travel ball is simultaneously the best and the worst thing that’s happened to organized baseball in the past 20 years

          • SweetSpot

            Didn’t even think of travel ball, excellent point. As far as young arms and health are concerned, I think one of the worst.

    • Still Stucky

      What Lazer said and also you’re never going to police it, not when graduating high school seniors can get 7 and 8-figure signing bonus.

      There is no governing body with the authority to change anything, nor the incentive.

      Aiken just had TJS and he’ll still be a rich man in a couple of months.

      The fixation on the cause of TJS is a solution in search of a problem.

      • Ewing33

        And the Yanks will probably pay him 300 million in 8 years, ha

      • SweetSpot

        No idea why you wrote this. I said not a word about doing anything about it – only why.

    • Still Stucky

      And not for nothing and Lazer’s point STILL stands, but if Sandy Koufax could have had TJS, he might well have done just that, and maybe be an even greater all time great.

      • SweetSpot

        I have no idea if TJS eliminates progressive arthritis.

    • http://fakediesel.com Isaac F.D. Yankem

      “I’m no doctor or expert”

      Yep.

      • SweetSpot

        But some of those who are agree.

    • BearNJ

      I agree. It’s laughable when its accepted across baseball that ” German threw 123.1 innings after throwing only 67 innings in 2014. The huge innings jump could be to blame” is considered valid. The babying of pitchers hasn’t worked. The way pitchers throw with limited pitch counts has seemed to increased arm injuries not lessened them. I think the Leo Mazzone approach is a better one.

      • SweetSpot

        I think that makes a great deal of sense.

    • Coach Taylor

      If you’re trying to make a point, it doesn’t really make sense to use five of the best pitchers of all time as your example. These guys are the exception, not the rule.

      • SweetSpot

        I don’t think that’s the case.

  • Jorge Steinbrenner

    Seattle knew.

  • PunkPitch

    This is, without a doubt, all Gary Denbos fault. And Gil Patterson. And Mike Axisa for being an overly optimistic pollyanna.