Would the Yanks dare start Molina in the playoffs?

Joba Joba Joba
Cashman: No Robertson for Red Sox weekend

Jose Molina has caught A.J. Burnett‘s last four starts. Granted, each of those starts was either a day game after a night game or half of a doubleheader. Still, after a rough August throwing to Posada, the pair hasn’t worked together all month. The off days in the playoffs allow teams to use their starting catchers exclusively, so Posada would have to catch A.J. Given the recent trend, would the Yankees dare start Molina in a playoff game?

I don’t think so, and if they lose Game 1 it’s out of the question. But if they win Game 1, would Girardi write Molina’s name in the No. 9 lineup spot? Again, I’d have to think he wouldn’t, but you never know. I’m interested to see if anyone else thinks this is a possibility.

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Joba Joba Joba
Cashman: No Robertson for Red Sox weekend
  • jsbrendog

    no way. to take matsui or posada’s bat out of the lineup in the playoffs is unforgiveable….tis unpossible!

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Yeah this.

  • currambayankees

    Not happening. Joe would be nuts to do that. AJ just needs to pitch to his potential no matter who the backstop is and it’s not like AJ has pitched any better with Molina giving him the signs. He’s had issues no matter who’s back there.

  • Mike bk

    and the reason we are assuming that AJ definitely gets the ball game 2 is?

    • raymagnetic

      Well if the Yanks were to go down 0-2 in the playoffs who would you rather have pitching game 3, AJ or Pettitte?

      • Mike bk

        and with that busted logic who would u rather have down 0-1?

        • whozat

          0-1 isn’t an elimination game. 0-2 is.

          • andrew

            so then wouldn’t we rather save CC for our elimination game? This makes no sense.

            • whozat

              I’m not saying I agree with it. I’m saying that it’s not “busted logic”

    • http://twitter.com/JamalG_BB Jamal G.

      Because if A.J. Burnett is as good as he has been his past four starts, sans one inning in the Bronx versus the Orioles, he is easily the second-best starting pitcher on the Yankees.

      • Mike bk

        i dont disagree with that but if they lose game 1 i think it is more likely it would be andy not AJ on the hill.

  • raymagnetic

    Joe would be nuts to do it, but something tells me that he would do it, especially if the Yankees win game one.

    Wouldn’t be the first time Joe did something nutty.

  • Guest

    There are not enough capital letters and exclamation points in the world to express my extreme displeasure with the very idea of starting Jose Molina in the playoffs.

    I am a mild-mannered man. My wife and I spoke about this in an off-handed fashion a few weeks ago. I flew into a fit of barely contained rage where I spewed obscenities at Usain Boltian speeds.

    If Jorge is healthy: This. Can. Not. Happen.

  • Michael

    I don’t think this is all that nutty actually. I am sure there is some statistical data that can support this, but just shooting from the hip, I would rather have AJ with 100 percent confidence in his catcher and his ability to throw a good game than whatever difference 2-3 at bats of Matsui > Molina gives us.

    Do I think that AJ should have learned to suck it up by now—yes.
    Do I want to win the game more than I care about that fact—-yes.

    I think getting 6-7 innings of good-great AJ is of paramount importance in a postseason game where runs are at a premium. Quality pitching > good hitting most any day and even if this is psychological, I’m fine with running with it.

    Also, we won in ’96 with a defensive catcher who had a pretty big triple in the world series if I remember correctly.

    • AndrewYF

      The only way Jose Molina gets a triple is if every defensive player passes out for two minutes ala Flash Forward.

      • Michael

        That is not to say that Molina would get a triple like Girardi did, just that then guy who got the triple is filling out the lineup card. He may be of the thought that defense and pitching are what matters most in the postseason and I dont know how wrong he would be.

        I dont have access to the stats but lets just say that AJ gives up x more runs a game throwing to Posada than Molina for whatever reason. If you accept that fact, then by starting Posada at catcher, you are essentially saying that Matsui will provide x+1 runs above what Molina could and I dont know if thats accurate.

        Again, we are most likely talking about 3 at-bats tops….if its more we have nothing to worry about because we would be up big enough to not worry about it.

        This is the same logic that made us all nervous with our “c” lineup a few days ago against the Angels. How did we win that game? Pitching and defense.

        Im conflicted myself about Molina vs Matsui (I dont think you take Posdas bat out), I just dont think its as nutty as it seems at first glance.

        • Lefty

          “I dont have access to the stats but lets just say that AJ gives up x more runs a game throwing to Posada than Molina for whatever reason. If you accept that fact, then by starting Posada at catcher, you are essentially saying that Matsui will provide x+1 runs above what Molina could and I dont know if thats accurate.”

          I agree completely with this statement, but that’s why we should look it up, also, there is the fact that we might be looking too much into a SSS, but we cannot ignore the fact that Burnett has publicly questioned Posada’s playcalling abilities…

          • Nigel Incubator-Jones

            Posada: 3, 22, 19, hut hut

            • Lefty

              haha… Sorry about that, PITCH-calling…

              • Lefty

                or game calling, whatever floats your boat…

                • Nigel Incubator-Jones

                  I knew what you meant.. Just playing around..

          • http://www.newyorkjets.com/image_assets/8997/052109_coach_rex_ryan_presser_320.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            Hold on… We don’t KNOW that Burnett will throw a better game to Molina than he will to Posada. All we KNOW is that Posada is worth more runs/game than Molina is. I posted this below but please… Take a look at these numbers:

            Jorge Posada:
            130 OPS+, .283/.360/.529/.889, 22 HR, 79 RBI, Switch-Hitter
            Jose Molina:
            51 OPS+, .221/.294/.270/.565, 1 HR, 11 RBI, RH Hitter

            Seriously… There is a much better chance that AJ Burnett will throw a good game to Jorge Posada than there is that Jose Molina will become as good a hitter as Jorge Posada. This isn’t even close.

            This entire conversation is based on a ridiculous, unproven narrative. Burnett has thrown good games and bad games to Molina, and he’s thrown good games and bad games to Posada. The only thing we KNOW in this conversation is that Jorge Posada is a MUCH better baseball player than Jose Molina, and that Jorge Posada helps the Yankees win much more than Jose Molina does. That is a FACT.

            • http://www.newyorkjets.com/image_assets/8997/052109_coach_rex_ryan_presser_320.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              PS: See Popavero’s comment below regarding whether Burnett can throw good games to Posada.

              The entire argument against Posada starting is based on unsubstantiated speculation.

              • Mike Pop

                Glad somebody appreciated that. Probably the most effort I’ve ever put into 1 comment.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Again, we are most likely talking about 3 at-bats tops

          That’s a lot in one game, especially a playoff game. I know Edwin Jackson hasn’t been strong of late, but who do you want facing him in game two: Molina or Posada? A.J. has thrown some incredible games to Jorge (see: June and July) and Jorge’s bat is much, much better. The choice is clear, unless Jorge is hurt.

    • Duog

      “I think getting 6-7 innings of good-great AJ is of paramount importance in a postseason game where runs are at a premium.”

      agree with this, but no guarantee you’re getting this with molina instead of posada behind the plate. what you are guaranteed of is a much better bat in posada or matsui over molina.

    • http://www.newyorkjets.com/image_assets/8997/052109_coach_rex_ryan_presser_320.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      “Also, we won in ‘96 with a defensive catcher who had a pretty big triple in the world series if I remember correctly.”

      Irrelevant and misleading. If 130 OPS+ Jorge Posada was there in 1996, Joe Girardi wouldn’t have even sniffed playing time in game 6 of the World Series. Joe Girardi was also a much better hitter in 1996 than Jose Molina is in 2009.

      • JMK

        Different era (you know the rest).

  • Paul O’neill

    i would start molina, starting pitcher pitching well in the playoffs is more important than posadas bat.

    • raymagnetic

      Until you have bases loaded, down two runs in the 3rd inning and Jose Molina at the plate.

      • C Bleak

        Pinch hit for Molina in that situation and AJ has to suck it up the rest of the game.

    • Bill R

      I would think Posada would DH over Matsui considering he’s a switch hitter.

      • Bill R

        But i’m not saying that they should play molina either. I think Jorge should start no matter what!

  • http://www.ominousred.com/blog/0901/090112_busey06.jpg Gary Busey’s Face

    Well, let’s assume we’re facing Detroit in the first round, and lets assume we beat Verlander in Game 1. So we’re up 1-0, at home, going into Game 2.

    That means we’re probably facing Edwin Jackson in Game 2, a RHP. So in order to start Molina, you’d have to bench Matsui or Posada, and thus lose out on the advantage a LHB would have v. a RHP.

    I’m going to have to say no.

    • vin

      That’s waaaaaay too logical.

  • Don

    Will never happen but Id rather Cervelli on the roster. He brings more to the table, in that he can actually run a little and get down a bunt.

  • Paul O’neill

    i would dh matsui and sit posada, burnett is a totally diffrernt pitcher with molina. pitching wins in the playoffs. i understand molina is a horrible offensive player, but we cant afford to have aj struggle

    • Duog

      there’s no guarantee you’re getting a well-pitched game out of AJ with molina behind the plate. he’s had his share of clunkers with him, case in point the 9/12 game vs. the o’s

      • Mike Pop

        Plus, there IS a guarantee that Posada makes your lineup that much better than Molina does.

        This idea is just silly, if the Yanks are up 2-0 and Pettitte started game 2, maybe I would consider this but still I’d rather Posada back there.

        • Doug

          “Plus, there IS a guarantee that Posada makes your lineup that much better than Molina does.”

          yup, said this earlier

          • Mike Pop

            My bad, yo.

  • Paul O’neill

    i understand there is no guarantee, but the odds of him pitching well with molina are better similar to molina last year

    • Doug

      maybe, but the sample size with molina is still a bit small.

      you get 27 outs in a game. tough to go into a playoff game knowing you’re only getting 23.

      • vin

        Great point.

  • S

    If Posada has good numbers against Edwin Jackson in the past, then I go with Posada. Otherwise Its a no brainer, Molina.

    • Doug

      3 for 10, with a double and 2 walks. molina’s 1 for 9 with a couple of Ks.

  • Displaced Yanks Fan

    For God’s sake start Molina! Trends are trends for a reason and good pitching beats good hitting in the playoffs any day.

    • Doug

      can you guarantee me that AJ will pitch a good game with molina? if yes, then sign me up.

  • vin

    Since runs are always at a premium in the playoffs, I think Posada’s hitting vs. Molina’s catching cancels each other out. But the fact that AJ has thrown some great games with Posada behind the plate makes it a no-brainer… Posada will be catching and hitting 6th.

    For example:
    http://www.baseball-reference......8070.shtml

    • Doug

      people conveniently forget this game

      • vin

        Yeah, and they only got .1 innings from Hughes, and 2 innings from Good Bruney. Insane.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        It’s not just that. Through June and July when A.J. was on fire, Jorge caught almost all of those games (Cervelli caught two or three, I think).

    • Bill R

      GAME, SET, MATCH!

  • ADam

    IF they are up 1-0… and maybe joe feels a little better about molina behind the plate, I say go for it.. I’m not saying it will happen.. but if it does and If the Yanks Fall behind early, you put Jorge in after the 3rd or 4th… However the yanks have to win game 1 to worry about this this scenario ever happening… Lets worry about CC dominating first…

  • Lefty

    that’s why you trot Posada out there for his remaining starts, the hell with the day game after a night game, because if that is the case, then rest Posada during the night game, but we need Posada to get on the same page as Burnett, and if he can’t by the time the season ends, then yes, imho, we start Molina and DH Posada or Matsui (whoever is the best option at the time, but then that’ll bring up another conflict, which is what do we do about Burnett? Is he truly struggling or is it the fact that he’s being a baby and can’t get on the same page as his catcher? then, we’ll be faced with the conflict of whether we start A.J. on game 2 or 3? and if we choose to start him on game 3 and we’re down 0-2, then one would think to start Posada at C risking the fact that A.J. will continue his struggles with Posada
    Wow… with all that said, I guess I really don’t paint a pretty picture…

  • http://www.newyorkjets.com/image_assets/8997/052109_coach_rex_ryan_presser_320.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

    Jorge Posada:
    130 OPS+, .283/.360/.529/.889, 22 HR, 79 RBI, Switch-Hitter

    Jose Molina:
    51 OPS+, .221/.294/.270/.565, 1 HR, 11 RBI, RH Hitter

    I can’t imagine an argument strong enough that I’d give up 79 POINTS OF OPS+ (!!!!!!!!!!) and start Jose Molina over Jorge Posada in a playoff game. There is no evidence that AJ Burnett will throw a better game to Molina than he will to Posada, but there’s a TON of evidence that Jorge Posada is a better baseball player than Jose Molina.

    • Doug

      “There is no evidence that AJ Burnett will throw a better game to Molina than he will to Posada, but there’s a TON of evidence that Jorge Posada is a better baseball player than Jose Molina.”

      that

    • Doug

      btw, a guy with a 51 OPS+ shouldn’t even be in the league, I don’t care how great his defense is

  • Sweet Dick Willie

    and if they lose Game 1 it’s out of the question.

    If this is true, then you are insinuating that the Yanks have a better chance winning w/ Posada catching.

    If that is true, why would you want to give the Yanks a smaller chance of winning just because you’re up 1-0?

  • Frank

    IF he pitches Game 3 and IF they’re up 2-0, then MAYBE.

    • Joe R

      This is what I was thinking. But the problem is then if you’re going to do it for one of his starts, then you’d probably have to do it for all of his starts. If you wont, then you might as well have Posada in there every game for his bat. Besides it’s not like he can’t pitch a good game with Posada.

  • Stryker

    not sure if it’s been said yet – but i think there’s NO WAY molina gets the start with AJ. think of it this way: if the ALDS is a warm up to the ALCS and the ALCS is just a warm up to the world series, do you think molina should start in the world series? i don’t think so. yes, good pitching and good defense win games but with molina and his anemic bat in the lineup, you’re potentially GIVING the opposing team outs.

    regardless of AJ’s track record with posada vs. molina, posada is going to be on this team much longer than molina will be – might as well continue to develop the relationship between the two of them. AJ, as a pitcher, shouldn’t have a different mindset in a game depending on who’s behind the plate. throw to posada the same way you’d throw to molina. is that too hard, especially for someone with 11 seasons of experience?

    • Kiersten

      Imagine Molina batting 8th in an NL park. Oyyyyyy.

  • mryankee

    I actually would prefer Cervelli to Molina. Cervelli is a better hitter and not much worse a defensive catcher. Of course Posada has to play everyday and using Molina unless absolutely neccesary is crazy. Is there a worse hitting cather in the league than Molina?

  • e mills

    just the fact that fans need to have this conversation, and others about playoff rotation, makes me feel as if there is going to be an off-season SP acquisition.

    • mryankee

      I wondered if aquiring say a starting pitcher such as Jon Lackey would be wise. Or maybe aquire a Hraden type and then go after King Felix when he is a f/a.

      • Mike Pop

        Harden for the bridge to Mo. Yes, I’m serious.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Signing John Lackey would not be wise. He wants A.J.-type money and definitely isn’t good enough for it. If I had to put something important on the line for it, I’d say the Yankees will roll with CC/A.J./Andy/Joba/Phil for next season. If not that, maybe someone gets brought in on a one or two year deal, Andy’s gone, and Phil’s still the fifth starter.

        • mryankee

          Then go after King Felix when he an f/a. I would be good with that rotation for next year.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            I’m nto assuming Felix is going to be available. The M’s have a good amount of money coming off the books in the next two seasons so they’d be wise to lock Felix up, and I think they will.

            • mryankee

              Your prbably right-I imagine they would be able to pay him what he wants-if he were on the market your talking about a lot more than what cc got. I would think he would want al leats 200 mill for 8-10 years.

              • Lefty

                well… I’ve read that Felix wants to test the free agent waters… so we’ll see if he changes his mind or if something else happens… but IF he does head into free agency, we know the yankees can bid like hell if it’s a player they want and need… in fact, no one can keep up with them in that department…

        • e mills

          that’s my initial inclination as well, however, Andy’s is going to be one year older and who knows what is going to happen with Joba (I think he’ll eventually be a 1 or 2 type pitcher). If they work out great, but if not a stop gap until Felix arrives (christmas present?) wouldn’t be so bad

          • mryankee

            If it can be done I would do that-However unlikely as Seattle would have to know he is thier franchise player so they would retain him. But CC AJ FELIX JOBA HUGHES would work for me.

    • Nigel Incubator-Jones

      just the fact that fans need to have this conversation, and others about playoff rotation, makes me feel as if there is going to be an off-season SP acquisition not much at all to talk about.

      fixed.

  • Mike Pop

    Games caught by Posada that A.J. has pitched well:

    June 2nd against Rangers – 7 innings, 3 runs
    June 20th against Marlins – 6.1 innings, 2 runs, 1 earned
    June 27th against Mets – 7 innings, 1 hit, 10 ks! 0 runs
    July 8th at Minny – 6.1 innings, 2 runs
    July 17th against Tigers – 6 innings, 3 runs (I’ll take that game 2)
    July 22ns against Balt – 7 innings, 2 runs
    July 27th against Tampa – 7 innings, 1 run
    August 7th against Boston – I think we know how that turned out
    August 12th against Toronto – 6 innings, 3 runs. 10 hits though, got lucky
    August 17th in Oak – 8 innings, 3 runs. CG loss

    That’s 10 solid outings. According to B-Ref, Molina has caught 9 of his starts. So, there ya go. Burnett can pitch to Posada, therefore Posada starts in the playoffs.

    • http://www.newyorkjets.com/image_assets/8997/052109_coach_rex_ryan_presser_320.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      Do you ever feel like this guy around here? It’s incredible… Every time an unsubstantiated theory/narrative and gets knocked down, another one pops up. It never ends.

      • Mike Pop

        Feels like amateur hour.

      • Bob Stone

        Best comment of the week.

  • Accent Shallow

    All sorts of wackiness here. The only way Molina should start a playoff game is if Posada’s banged up. Alternatively, if Girardi is pulling a Black Sox.

  • Lefty

    Also, with all of this said, this is my problem with Posada, which is why I’m not much of a fan of his, is the fact that his defense is questionable at best. (Also, not to mention the fact that I am a pitcher so I fall in the category of a pitching and defense nut lol) Because since taking over as full time Catcher with the Yanks, pitchers have constantly questioned his playcalling skills, for whatever reason, which is why even last year for example, before Posada went down, Mussina and Pettite had both made it clear that they wanted their catcher to be Molina instead of Posada. Because having a strong catcher at defense infinately improves your chances of winning day in and day out for the following reasons (and I speak from experience):

    When you are pitching, you are more confident in every pitch you throw that was the catcher’s cal although you might not agree with it because you have confidence that you’re catcher knows something that even you might not know, so you throw that pitch with more conviction, which is key.

    Also, you are a pitcher, and you have a speedy runner on first base like Ellsbury(for arguement’s sake), you tend to not get distracted worrying too much about whether the runner is going to steal the base, which dramatically lessens the chances of you throwing a bad pitch because you are confident that if that runner decides to take off, there is a very good chance that your catcher will gun down the runner, thus potentially eliminating a possible RISP situation, because either the runner will get gunned down or he won’t even attempt to go in order not to make an out. And like I said before, since your pitcher is not distracted with the runner, your pitcher will focus more on making a good/great pitch and will in fact make that good/great pitch, and in most cases, resulting in an out, instead of possibly giving up a run. There are many other cases where a strong defensive catcher improves your chances of winning, but because I don’t want to keep on typing as I’ve rambled enough… lol…

    By the way, I’m not advocating for Molina to start over Posada or vice versa, just needed to rant a little bit. And also, just wanted to present some facts from the other side as all/most of you guys are posting the pro’s of Posada starting over Molina, just thought I’d play devil’s advocate… ;)

    • Doug

      this has GOT to be the lefty i know and love….signed roto

      • Lefty

        lol… you bet your ass it is…

        • Doug

          lol….how goes it, my friend

          • Lefty

            everything’s well on my fronts, how’s everything over there?

            • Doug

              very busy at work, so have been MIA on the boards. have you been over with the magpies at all?

              • Lefty

                actually, no… the few times that I come online and check things out, it’s been over here…

    • Lefty

      sorry, insert GAME calling everywhere you see a playcalling instead… lol… Football is starting to take its toll on me… lol…

    • Nigel Incubator-Jones

      Also, with all of this said, this is my problem with Posada, which is why I’m not much of a fan of his, is the fact that his defense is questionable at best. (Also, not to mention the fact that I am a pitcher so I fall in the category of a pitching and defense nut lol) Because since taking over as full time Catcher with the Yanks have won 3 World Series.

      fixed.

      • Nigel Incubator-Jones

        *,they have won….

        • Lefty

          Yea, but to be fair, the teams we had in 1998-2000 were just insane… Personally, we could’ve won with almost anyone else at catcher…

          • Nigel Incubator-Jones

            Maybe true, but many say the strength of those WS teams was their starting pitching.

            • Nigel Incubator-Jones

              Just thinking out louad and to counter myself, but Posada was a young catcher maybe more apt to do whatever a pitcher wanted. As he got older, maybe he thinks he knows better than the pitchers what to call.

              /just thoughts

              • Nigel Incubator-Jones

                *loud

              • Lefty

                maybe, that’s a good theory perhaps…

          • Mike Pop

            2000 Yankees were kind of wack.

            Last year the Yanks had a better team.

            • Mike Pop

              Well based on W/L and as we know, that’s what mattrs.

  • Russell NY

    Here’s what I would like: Verlander goes down for the season, Angels beat Red Sox, we play the Angels and half their team gains 40 lbs and is twice as slow. Then Joe torre burns out broxton before the playoffs and goes into the WS without a closer.

    Very likely to happen!

    • Mike Pop

      I want to see the Sox in the ALCS and sweep them, while outscoring them 60-4.

    • vin

      Nah, they still have George Sherrill.

  • Lefty

    Also, let’s take a look at that past World Series winners’ catchers since we last won in 2000:
    2008 – Phillies – Ruiz- defensive
    2007 – Red Sox – Tek – defensive
    2006 – Cardinals – Yadier – defensive
    2005 – white Sox – Pierz… – defensive
    2004 – Red Sox – Tek – defensive
    2003 – Marlins – Pudge – both,
    2002 – Angels – Bengie – defensive
    2001 – D’Backs – Combo of Rod Barajas, Chad Moeller and Damien Miller – all defensive

    • Mike Pop

      Erroneous. Erroneous on all accounts.

      They were the best catchers they had, they weren’t sitting a better player in order to play them.

      • Lefty

        How is that erroneous? It doesn’t matter if they had better catching options or not. point is they had defensive catchers to anchor the pitching staff. and btw, I never said I was in favor of playing Molina over Posada, I am just simply stating facts…

        • Mike Pop

          I just like using the word erroneous. Like Vince Vaughn did in that movie.

          I just don’t think this has anything to do with whether Posada should start or sit in favor of Molina. My bad cause you didn’t say something like ‘this is why Molina should start”, I jumped the gun.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          It’s erroneous because if any of those teams had a catcher who hit like Jorge, he would’ve been starting. Those teams had no offensive upgrade/alternative at catcher.

          Also, in ’04, Varitek OPS+’d 121 while throwing out only 23% of runners. Calling him a defense first catcher in that year is dishonest.

          • whozat

            And in 2007, he still put up a 103 OPS+.

          • vin

            +1

            I think, more than anything, it shows just how difficult it is to get a good bat at that position.

          • Lefty

            “Also, in ‘04, Varitek OPS+’d 121 while throwing out only 23% of runners. Calling him a defense first catcher in that year is dishonest.”

            Well, idk about it being “dishonest” per say, because I really didn’t look up their stats, I just looked at the names…

            Also, yes, while they didn’t have a catcher who hit like Jorge, who’s to say that they would’ve won the WS with catcher who can hit like Jorge, or even Jorge himself for that matter?

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              My point is that a bat like Jorge’s gives the team a better chance to win than a bat like Jose Molina’s (or any of those guys).

              This is semi related but why are people always so quick to give credit to the catchers for the success of pitchers? I’d say that the 2001 D-Backs won the WS much more because Johnson and Schilling were out of their freaking minds more so than their catchers, and the same goes for the ’05 White Sox whose pitchers were just unbelievable in the playoffs.

              • Mike Pop

                No, no, no. Chad Moeller, Barajas, and Damien Miller made Schilling and Johnson better pitchers!

                If Piazza was the catcher, Yanks win that series.

              • Lefty

                Yea I hear ya…

              • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

                Don’t forget too that the guy catching the White Sox pitchers in 2005 is hardly the paragon of a good defensive catcher.

        • whozat

          Varitek in 2004 had a 121 OPS+. Pierzynski in 2005 had 90, which isn’t great, but is a far cry from a Molina-type.

        • http://www.myspace.com/bayside Thirty5Thirty6

          Facts that are irrelevant, but yes, facts nevertheless.

        • http://www.newyorkjets.com/image_assets/8997/052109_coach_rex_ryan_presser_320.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          “How is that erroneous? It doesn’t matter if they had better catching options or not. point is they had defensive catchers to anchor the pitching staff.”

          It’s erroneous because you’re arguing that the Yankees should sit the INCREDIBLY SUPERIOR offensive catcher for the guy who you perceive to be better defensively.

          “and btw, I never said I was in favor of playing Molina over Posada, I am just simply stating facts…”

          That’s so weak. You’re all over this thread giving reasons why you don’t like Posada. But, what the hey, let’s play your game. Show your cards. Do you think Jose Molina should be the Yankees’ starting catcher when AJ Burnett starts in the playoffs? Make a call.

          • Lefty

            No, I said no, or at least I believe I did… and I’m not saying that Molina should start over Posada, I’m pretty much just stating my dislike of Posada, rather than saying Molina should start over him… Relax…

            • http://www.newyorkjets.com/image_assets/8997/052109_coach_rex_ryan_presser_320.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              I’m cool and collected, brother. Just because someone argues with you doesn’t mean they’re upset, no need to be so sensitive to criticism.

              So then you think Jorge Posada, NOT Jose Molina, should be the Yankees’ starting catcher for every postseason game? Let’s just get it on the record, clearly.

              • Lefty

                Oh, yes, of course… I was just, like I said earlier, venting a bit about Posada’s defense… or lack thereof…

                • http://www.newyorkjets.com/image_assets/8997/052109_coach_rex_ryan_presser_320.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  Ok. Well, every time you feel like you’re unhappy with Posada, take a look at the following:

                  Jorge Posada:
                  130 OPS+, .283/.360/.529/.889, 22 HR, 79 RBI, Switch-Hitter
                  Jose Molina:
                  51 OPS+, .221/.294/.270/.565, 1 HR, 11 RBI, RH Hitter

                  … In fact, go to b-ref and look at his career stats. They’re ridiculously good.

                  Then when you worry about Posada catching Burnett, look at the following:
                  (h/t to Mike Pop)

                  Games caught by Posada that A.J. has pitched well:
                  June 2nd against Rangers – 7 innings, 3 runs
                  June 20th against Marlins – 6.1 innings, 2 runs, 1 earned
                  June 27th against Mets – 7 innings, 1 hit, 10 ks! 0 runs
                  July 8th at Minny – 6.1 innings, 2 runs
                  July 17th against Tigers – 6 innings, 3 runs (I’ll take that game 2)
                  July 22ns against Balt – 7 innings, 2 runs
                  July 27th against Tampa – 7 innings, 1 run
                  August 7th against Boston – I think we know how that turned out
                  August 12th against Toronto – 6 innings, 3 runs. 10 hits though, got lucky
                  August 17th in Oak – 8 innings, 3 runs. CG loss

                  The Yankees have won 3 World Series with Jorge Posada as their starting catcher, and have the best record in baseball during his career. Even his detractors have to concede that at this point in his career Jorge Posada is, at the very least, a borderline HALL OF FAME candidate at the catcher position.

                  All the unsubstantiated narratives in the world cannot argue with the OVERWHELMING evidence that Jorge Posada is an amazing baseball player.

                  Good grief… Honestly, I’m not even that big a Posada fan, it’s not like he’s ever been my favorite player or anything. But all the bashing and all the false narratives about his defense are just asinine.

                • Lefty

                  I hear you… On everything that you’re saying… believe me, I do… But what turns me off about him is the fact that his own pitchers have come out and criticized him on his defense, and they’re not false narratives… Like Randy Johnson, say whatever you want about him, David wells has come out and criticized him, even andy Pettite, who’s been with him just about both of their careers, like last year, when he and Mussina both had designated Molina as their personal catchers before Posada had gone down with his injury… Idk if there are any more, these are just the ones that I know and the ones that have come out puiblicaly, so there should and probably are more complaints than that if these are only the ones that I’ve heard of and read about, because I’m nothing more than a fan…

                • http://www.newyorkjets.com/image_assets/8997/052109_coach_rex_ryan_presser_320.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  Honestly… I don’t remember Wells or Pettitte having a problem with Posada (and Posada currently catches Pettitte, and Pettitte is a longtime Posada guy, so I think any one-time issue with Pettitte is a moot point). Mussina and Johnson… I don’t know, man, I think it’s a stretch to get too worked up with Posada just because two of the quirkiest personalities in baseball didn’t mesh with him. So even if I just assume Wells said something about Posada, I really think the group of guys you’re talking about here who didn’t like throwing to Posada is Mike Mussina, Randy Johnson and David Wells. There’s another common thread between those three guys, in addition to not loving Posada – they’re all weird, unique personalities.

                  Look… Nobody’s saying Posada is Bob Boone back there. But all these narratives out there about his defense are built, for the most part, on a lot of unsubstantiated and irrelevant BS. When a guy is the starting catcher for a team for over a decade it’s not surprising for a few pitchers during that time to have clashes with him. Jorge Posada is a perfectly adequate defensive catcher, and an amazing offensive catcher. He has been the catcher during a lot of very good pitching performances over a very long period of time. The evidence we have points to him being very good, the only negatives we have about him are based on purely anecdotal narratives.

    • Nigel Incubator-Jones

      This is actually pretty interesting list, however if you continue:

      2000 – Posada
      1999 – Posada
      1998 – Posada (Girardi did catch 1 game)

      • Lefty

        Of course, which is why I said after the yanks last won it, in 2000… but then, if you keep going beyond 1998, then you have 1997- Charles Johnson, who was a stud defensively, 1996 – Girardi, 1995 – Indians – combo of Sandy Alomar and Tony Pena… etc, etc…

        • Nigel Incubator-Jones

          Yeah, I actually was going to go further but saw Charles Johnson was next so I stopped there.

          /only good things for my argument’d

          But Braves won in 1995 with Javy Lopez.

  • Eddy Southwick

    Think about it, you want to do everything to make your starting pitcher better.. remember monila 1)stops a running game, 2)if aj goes 7, you put posada in, 3)he just makes AJ better, if you have to sacrifice one bat i would do it.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      3)he just makes AJ better,

      Yeah, not so much. A.J. has thrown more good games (10, see Pop’s comment above) to Jorge than he’s thrown games in total to Molina (9). Burnett has just as much chance to pitch well to Posada as he does to pitch well to Molina. Jorge’s bat far, far outweighs Molina’s defense.

    • http://www.newyorkjets.com/image_assets/8997/052109_coach_rex_ryan_presser_320.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      “1)stops a running game”

      2009 CS%:

      Jose Molina: 30%
      Jorge Posada: 29%

      And one more time, for good measure:

      2009 OPS+:

      Jose Molina: 51
      Jorge Posada: 130

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        2009 CS%:

        Jose Molina: 30%
        Jorge Posada: 29%

        Awwwww shit.

      • Tom Zig

        Wow, I didn’t know the CS% was so close. Everyday a new meme is put out to pasture

        • http://www.newyorkjets.com/image_assets/8997/052109_coach_rex_ryan_presser_320.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          To be fair, Molina historically has a higher CS% than Posada, but yeah, the numbers don’t show that he’s been so much better this year (though I remember his % being pretty low early in the season and I think it’s been rising since).

          But the point is really just that it’s not like Posada has a noodle for an arm and allows teams to run all over him.

          Check this out:
          (from: http://stats.nj.com/mlb/getlea.....8;btnGo=Go)

          Rank Player Team Stats
          1 Gerald Laird Det 42.4 ( 39/92 )
          2 Rod Barajas Tor 35.1 ( 26/74 )
          3 Jorge Posada NYY 29.4 ( 30/102 )
          4 Miguel Olivo KC 27.0 ( 20/74 )
          5 Joe Mauer Min 26.8 ( 19/71 )
          6 Matt Wieters Bal 26.3 ( 21/80 )
          7 Kurt Suzuki Oak 26.2 ( 27/103 )
          8 Dioner Navarro TB 24.7 ( 18/73 )
          9 Jarrod Saltalamacchia Tex 23.8 ( 19/80 )
          10 A.J. Pierzynski CWS 23.3 ( 30/129 )
          11 Mike Napoli LAA 21.7 ( 20/92 )
          12 Jason Varitek Bos 13.0 ( 15/115 )

  • matthaggs

    Greg Maddux just about always used a scrub catcher instead of Javy Lopez, so there is precedent.

    I wouldn’t do it, but the only way Girardi would do it is if a)Cervelli was also on the roster, b) they were facing a running team like the Angels c)they were facing a tough left-handed starter. (Matsui cranks lefties but Girardi somehow isn’t aware of this).

    There’s a small chance that even two of those three things will happen, so Molina will sit the bench, which is where he belongs.

    Also, it’s not just the caught stealing factor with Burnett. He has thrown a ton of wild pitches this year. I’d be curious to see the wild pitch numbers with Jorge as opposed to Molina and/or Cervelli. But not curious enough to look them up myself.

  • Pingback: The A.J. and Jose show | River Avenue Blues

  • Michael

    Hate to say I told you so but……