Jul
09

Rumor: Lee deal ‘just about done’

By

I’m never sleeping in again….

Late last night Joel Sherman reported that the Yankees are “on the brink” of landing Cliff Lee. There aren’t many details other than the inclusion of Jesus Montero in the package. Sherman mentions David Adams, too and Tweeted that another prospect would be involved as well. We’ll save commentary until we get further word, but I will say that if this does happen: 1) Please let it happen before they face Lee tonight, and 2) This will not be the last major move the Yanks make this month.

Update by Ben (10:40 a.m.): AOL. FanHouse’s Ed Price has an update. According to his sources — an official from another team interested in Lee — the Mariners are now “negotiating exclusively” with the Yankees, and Buster Olney’s sources say the trade is “just about done.” We could be in for an interesting day indeed. For our analysis of this potential deal, be sure to check out Mike’s take on the rumors.

Update by Mike (11:07 a.m.): Olney says that the Yankees will not receive a window to negotiate and extension with Lee as part of the trade, but Ken Davidoff says they’re confident they’ll sign him long-term. Remember, the Yanks don’t negotiate with potential free agents until their contracts expire anyway. Olney also says that the Yanks informed the Mariners that their current offer is their final and best one.

Update by Mike (11:57 a.m.): Sherman says that the Yanks refused to include pitching prospects David Phelps, Ivan Nova, or Hector Noesi in the deal. He adds that it’s entirely possible that the deal is just Montero and Adams for Lee. I recommend giving Sherman’s piece a read, he explains why this trade would be different that one for Johan Santana way back when. Long story short: the Yanks’ believe their farm system is simply better now, and they’re dealing from positions of depth.

Update by Mike (1:49 p.m.): Ken Rosenthal hears that the third prospect might be Zach McAllister, who has become quite expendable this season with the emergence of Noesi, Phelps, and others.

Categories : Asides
  • http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec105

    Love this deal. This is why you build up a wealth of talent. They have 2 more stud prospects behind the dish, so this makes sense.

    I agree, get it done before the game.

    I’m more interested in Javy for Werth…does that work?

    • http://backyardbaseball.wordpress.com Aaron S.

      Ok but let’s say the Javy/Werth deal goes down. Who gets bumped to DH? And what does Joe do on the days where Jorge can’t catch? Still many questions to be answered with that one. I’d rather dump Javy for prospects (non-pitching ones) to restack the top of the farm system.

      • http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec105

        wouldn’t that be a good problem to have?

        I was however thinking the same thing. First reaction is Werth, but he’s a pretty solid defender. So Swish DH?

        Days Jorge DHs, granderson to the bench, gardy in CF, swish in LF.

        • Tom Zig

          Doesn’t Werth have bad knees? Wouldn’t you put him at DH for that reason?

          • Klemy

            I’ve never heard that. He’s major plus defender, so I’d be surprised if that’s actually true?

            • Tom Zig

              I’m at work, so I can’t confirm it with a link. But google Jayson Werth and Knee surgery and tell me what you find.

            • http://Yankees-news.webs.com Anthony

              Weth has knee problems from when he used 2 catch. Due 2 his knee problems he got moved to outfield

    • http://Yankees-news.webs.com Anthony

      Some r saying that it would take Romine and Javy 2 get Werth.if you trade Montero than at least u have Romine, but if u trade him for Werth then its 4 or 5 years 2 wait 4 Gary Sanchez

    • AndrewT

      Quick Question- If the Yankees are able to complete this deal before tonight’s game, then could Lee possible take Phil’s turn in the rotation tonight against Lee’s old team?

      If so, this could have an added benefit that it could give Hughes a long rest… Rest Hughes tonight, during the all star break, skip his start after the all star break (now have 6 good starters), then trade away Javy. That would probably enable Hughes to make every regular start for the rest of the season, and back in the bullpin for the playoffs.

      What do you all think?

  • C.Roy

    SAVE JESUS!

    • http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec105

      JESUS walks! haha

      • C.Roy

        Now we’ll only get to see him a couple of series a year! I think I’m taking this too hard but really for only 4 months of a player? UGH.

  • Brien Jackson

    If they trade Montero, it has to mean they don’t think he has much of a future as a catcher, or that they increased faith in Romine right?

    • C.Roy

      I hope so.

    • Pasqua

      Not sure it has to mean that Montero is deficient in some way. Maybe they just feel that Lee for Jesus is fair; an equal swap of talent. My question is: do they need Lee to win a championship right now? I don’t think so, so why not target him in the offseason at the cost of money alone?

      • john

        I will tell you why because Lee will go to a team that we will end up facing in the playoffs or world series, you remember what he did to us lasyt world series right? Lee could win 2 or 3 out of a 5 or 7 series in the post-season do we really want to sit back and let that happen? We have a chance here to go back to back!

        • Austin

          So they’re trading Jesus Montero just so they can C-block other teams from Lee? That’s just dumb.

          • Phil

            No! That’s baseball. Plus Lee is a BEAST!!! Imagine any combination of Sabathia, Pettitte, Hughes, and Lee in a 5 or 7 game series? The only problems I see are who to start and who get’s moved to the bullpen. That is a problem I want to have!!! Good to see the BOSS has left his mark on the new regime. Go YANKS!

        • http://www.yankeenumbers.com Mr. Sparkle

          If that’s so, Cashman should be fired immediately. You may sign free agents to block players from going to other teams, but you don’t rent a guy in a trade for four months to do so. You take your chance that you beat him the two or three times you face him. Look at it this way, if they think a guy is so good, the only way to beat him is to be sure they don’t face him by acquiring him, what does that say about the confidence you have in your lineup? Not much. If you think your lineup has a legitimate chance at beating anyone on any day or that your pitching staff can “outpitch” him, then you probably don’t have a championship team on your hands.

  • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

    Jeez, Montero AND Adams? Talk about an overpay…

    I hope it’s just bullshit leaked to Sherman to make the Rays or Rangers give up something of actual value.

    • Tampa Yankee

      I hope it is to just drive up the price.

    • http://www.teamnerdrage.com dr mrs the yankee

      Montero + 3 others including Adams seems like a desperation trade to me, which is weird since they don’t *need* Lee. Bizarre.

      • http://www.teamnerdrage.com dr mrs the yankee

        Okay apparently it’s 3 with Montero and Adams, no coffee yet. I still don’t like that or understand where this is coming from.

        • http://www.teamnerdrage.com dr mrs the yankee

          And nope it’s Adams, Montero, +3 no. way.

  • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

    Not as excited as I should be.

  • nsalem

    Could this “change of policy” be motivated by the prospect of facing the 1-2 lefty duo of Lee and Price in a ALCS matchup??

    • http://jukeofurl.wordpress.com Juke Early

      It better – NYY can’t have 2 guys in an opposing rotation v. them, who typically can just throw their caps out there & get the W.

    • john

      Yes exactly in that case we don’t go past round 2, you remember what happened last year, right???

  • Tampa Yankee

    I really hope this doesn’t happen. I understand the concern over AJ’s inconsistency and Phil’s innings limit but Javy has pitched well since the shaky start and there is always CC and Andy. I’m sure we can find 3 or 4 guys to make a run for #28. This is not just the way Cash$ works. So let’s say they get Lee, if they try and move Javy (he is more attractive than AJ since he’s got a 1-yr deal and is a type A), they will not get enough in return to make up for the loss of Montero. This is just weird.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      Javy for Dominic Brown.

      /not gonna happen’d

      • Brien Jackson

        Where there’s an Amaro, there’s a potentially stupid move just waiting to happen. Or something like that.

  • C.Roy

    Tell me if I’m wrong here but wouldn’t it make more sence to get Haren now and Cliff in the offseason if your gonna give up Montero? Then you have a full rotation next year of CC Lee Haren Hughes Burnett?

    • Rob

      Perhaps they’re looking at the draft picks in a deep draft. If they get both Lee and Werth now, they don’t have to give up picks.

  • theyankeewarrior

    I literally just checked the calendar to see if it was April 1st…

  • Pete

    noooooooooo.

    I love Lee, but I really don’t love the idea of getting rid of our only real moderately close offensive stud in the minors. In my mind, Montero is something of a keystone for the Yanks in the next 5-10 years; his bat, along with Cano’s, Swisher’s, and the aging A-Rod’s, will allow the team to field some cheaper two-way players whose offense probably won’t be as strong, like Romine, Heathcott, Granderson, Gardner, etc. Having those guys in the lineup means the team would be able to wither out the remainder of Jeter’s, A-Rod’s, CC’s, and AJ’s contracts through their decline years while still being able to sign guys like Lee.

    Don’t get me wrong, Cliff Lee makes this team much better. A rotation of Sabathia, Lee, Pettitte, Javy, AJ is almost unthinkably good. And moving Hughes to the bullpen makes the massive improvement two-fold. Or, if the Yankees go the route of trade for Lee and then swap Javy for Jayson Werth, then they improve both the lineup and the rotation (though the bullpen misses out), and get a player they can offer arbitration to.

    But fiscally, it’s irresponsible. The Yankees can’t keep maxing out their credit card on guys over thirty unless they do hold on to their blue-chippers.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      If the Yankees do this, then trade Javy for Werth, I’d be a little more accepting.

      • lardin

        I think it depends on Mo’s health. I think the Yankees may be concerned about MO, therefore they trade for Lee, and Put Hughes in the Bullpen just in case MO goes on the DL. Who would you rather have close at this point, Joba or Hughes?

    • Jeff

      My thoughts exactly. Why not just pick him up as a free agent at the end of the year.

      Do we really need Lee now? Seriously?

    • YankFanDave

      Another nooooo. Can’t honestly say I’d be unhappy to have Lee just don’t need him, particularly at the price. Three 10+ win starters, all current all stars and you trade for Lee who can be gotten via free agency after the season. The need is in the bullpen and on the bench. Just doesn’t make sense. I guess it’s to make up for not getting Lebron.

  • Anthony Murillo

    Love this deal.

  • Chris

    In a bizarre brain malfunction, when I saw “Yanks near landing Lee” in my RSS feed I assumed it was Derek Lee. Maybe my subconscious is more offense oriented.

    Wonder if they would get a window for an extension. I’m not crazy about losing Jesus, but unfortunately we no longer have Melky and IPK to swap for the big name talent.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      Lee and Felix for Wordekemper. Nothing less.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      David Lee actually. The Warriors are going to trade him to the Yanks.

  • Frank

    Great move as long as they can sign him which I believe they know they can do. Plus, they recoup some talent when they trade Vazquez, which will be the next move if this trade goes down.

    • dalelama

      Please trade AJ instead of Javy but I doubt anybody would be stupid enough to take AJ.

  • Teix is the man

    It was the Jesus Watch!
    Totally kidding’d

  • theyankeewarrior

    The Sanchez watch?

  • Joe

    BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PROSPECT WATCH!!!!!!!!!!

  • Carcillo

    Update (8:37 a.m.): I’m never sleeping in again….

    8:30′ish is sleeping in? Yikes.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

      Yeah. I mean, we’re not in college.

      • Rose

        LOL. IETC very much. I’ve said this line all too much to people.

      • jsbrendog (returns)

        fact. getting up for work everyday at 7 am means 8-9 on weekends is sleeping in

  • Jimmy

    JoelSherman1 Was able to confirm #Mariners would get at least 3 prospects and besides Montero, 2B David Adams is definitely in it for Lee #Yankees

    • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

      Unless the Rays were offering Upton AND Jennings, this makes no sense.

      Hell, even if they were offering that package, it STILL makes no sense. A top 10 prospect, and a guy who was on his way to being a top 100 guy before getting injured. I said before, it makes sense if the trade were based around Romine, but you can get so much more value out of these prospects it’s not even funny.

      • Jimmy

        Adams would be blocked by Cano.

        • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

          It’s not about the major league team, it’s about maximizing value.

          Reportedly, no one else in baseball was even coming close to matching a prospect as good as Montero. To throw in Adams just reeks of simple overpaying, and that is never smart.

          • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

            Word.

            And, like I said, paying twice for Lee is no good.

  • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

    Has any other writer been able to confirm this?

    • C.Roy

      Yup Olney and Heyman

      • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

        Sigh.

        This whole thing smacks of Georgeism.

        • C.Roy

          Agreed.

          • Tim

            It would if the Yankees didn’t lock up Lee immediately after the deal goes down. Otherwise, this is an excellent use of resources to greatly improve your team while preventing competitive teams from improving themselves. First, there is no guarantee that Cliff Lee would be available in the offseason, or that the Yankees would be able to sign him. I love how whenever a guy is a free agent, everyone assumes that the Yankees are a lock to get them. What happens if some other team packages young talent to trade for Lee, then locks him up to an extension? Then you are left holding the bag, while someone else got substantially better. The Sabathia risk only worked for Cashman because Cleveland traded him to Milwaukee; a team that was clearly in no position to sign him to an extension. What happens if Lee gets traded to St. Louis? Or LA? Or, heaven forbid, Boston? Then you’re likely screwed.

            Second, what guarantee do you have about Montero’s future ability in the majors? He is very young, and apparently a talented bat, but he has no defensive position with the Yankees in the future unless he dramatically improves as a catcher. And it isn’t like the Yankees aren’t staggeringly deep at catcher in the minor leagues. I agree with what was said earlier in this thread – Montero is essentially perfect trade bait.

            And last, but not least, I find it hysterical that anyone would say that the Yankees don’t “need” Lee because they have Javy and AJ and Hughes and Pettitte. These are the same people who were burning Javy in effigy six weeks ago, who curl up in the fetal position and rock back and forth when AJ pitches, who lament Hughes’ innings limits, and who wonder when the other shoe is going to fall on a 38 year old pitcher having a career year. The only given in the Yankee rotation is CC, after that, you have 4 question marks in September and October, because of performance or limits or health or age.

            Make the deal, Brian, but only after you get Lee to agree to an extension.

            • http://www.teamnerdrage.com dr mrs the yankee

              Lee isn’t signing any kind of extension during the season, so whoops there goes that.

              • http://jukeofurl.wordpress.com Juke Early

                Lee wants to be a NYY. If they got him now, the suits would have to really screw a deal up to lose him in 2011.

              • CG

                Yeah? He told you that?

            • Mike HC

              Agreed with almost all of this.

      • rbizzler

        Olney was citing Sherman in his twitter updates. Not sure about Heyman, but it could be that everyone is running with Sherman’s report.

        Talk about mixed emotions…

        • C.Roy

          Heyman said he checked his sources and mentioned Sherman as the first person to report.

  • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

    I am not excited about this(IF it even happens). It seems like a lot to give up for a rental. How much better does this make the Yanks for the rest of this season? Are those hand full of wins worth the talent given up?

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      /waits for countless responses of:

      “Anything is worth giving up for a World Series win.”

      • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

        We’re gonna need a bigger boat.

        • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

          Haha, best response ever.

    • DCBX

      Just sayin’: people griped a lot about renting Cone too. And he ended up staying.

  • ConcernedFan

    Im so disgusted, i cant believe Cashman is considering this when you have him this off season without having to give up nobody

    come ONNNNN we have built Montero to be our future for all these years and we are so close to have him up and so close to have Lee as a FA……… oh man Im more sick about this than all the knick fans not getting Lebron, this hurts me more than cavs fans losing lebron……..ahhhhhhhhhhhhh what a nightmare

    • Jimmy

      And this is why you don’t fall in love with prospects.

    • Doug

      “we have built Montero to be our future for all these years”

      and therein lies the problem here

    • Tim

      Are we really close to having Lee as a free agent? I didn’t realize we were in any better position than any other team that might be interested in his services.

      • Doug

        people just assumed we’re frontrunner b/c we’ll have a need in the rotation and we have the most $

      • http://www.teamnerdrage.com dr mrs the yankee

        The Yankees are always in the best position out of anyone to sign free agents that they want because they make so much more money than anyone else.

        Why do you think the team is so reviled by other fans?

  • Simon B.

    I’m not sure how I feel about this, but for all those who never want to trade Montero:

    Montero is the quintessential trade bait. He has no position on the Yankees with Teixeira occupying firstbase for the next 7 years. Can he be a catcher? Maybe, but maybe the Yankees have better information that it truly isn’t going to work out there. So, if that ends up being the case, he is worth a lot more to another team than the Yankees.

    I always hear fans refer to him as ‘untouchable’, but he might be the exact opposite. The old axiom in drafting is “draft for talent, you can always trade what you don’t need later.” This might very likely be one of those cases.

    • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

      “Montero is the quintessential trade bait.”

      Okay. So trade him for something more valuable than half a season of a guy you’re going to give $20 million to in the offseason anyway.

      • Simon B.

        I haven’t made up my mind on this particular trade, but it certainly isn’t as crazy as you put it.

        Lee might very well be the best overall pitcher in baseball over the last two and half years. It might not even be a matter of whether they sign him for further than this year. Having a pitcher like that can really help you with a fierce race in the AL East and the playoffs.

        If they hold onto Montero for too much longer, they may get burned.

        • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

          You mean the fierce AL East race where the third place team is 5 games behind and currently crippled with injuries?

        • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

          If they hold onto Montero for too much longer, they may get burned.

          How?

          • Tim

            You’re right. Because highly touted prospects never flame out and become busts.

            • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

              When did I say Montero’s guaranteed to succeed?

              • Tim

                You didn’t. You just asked how they could get burned for holding onto Montero for too long.

                • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

                  Nope, not what he asked. He asked how they would get burned for holding onto him any longer.

                  • Tim

                    That’s the thing. Hold on to him for what? A better trade? You are talking about one of the three best left-handed pitchers in all of baseball. And the difference is just semantics – you don’t want to sit on Montero as a prospect, but in reality the only thing that can happen to his value in the eyes of the rest of MLB is a decline. He is considered one of the top prospects in baseball. But he is struggling a bit in AAA offensively, and his defense is apparently a disaster. This always seems to be the case – the more people look at a prospect, the more flaws they find in him, and the less value he might have. Remember when Lastings Milledge was the “next coming”?

    • ConcernedFan

      im not against trading montero but do it for a young pitcher , josh johnson, matt cain type of pitchers, not someone you can get via FA and whos not that young my godddddddddddddd

      • Simon B.

        You overvalue Montero.

        I love him too, but he’s not landing anything close to Josh Johnson.

        • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

          No minor leaguer, or honestly any combination of minor leaguers could come close to landing Johnson. He’s not going anywhere.

      • Ross in Jersey

        There is zero chance that the Marlins would trade Josh Johnson. He’s the best pitcher in the NL right now and they just signed him to an extension at reasonable money.

        • CNight_UP

          Ubaldo says hi…

          • Chris

            Nice of Ubaldo to say hi. Johnson is still better.

            • andrew

              ietc.

              Ubaldo may have all the fanfare but JJ has the better numbers, look it up.

        • ConcernedFan

          I didnt mean literaly Josh Johnson, he was an example of the type of young pitcher to trade for

  • Gonzo

    I am not against trading Montero, but a team with the best record in baseball, with and an enviable starting 5 could probably make a better trade that Cliff Lee. Not that Lee is anything less than the best available in a trade, but pitching is not the problem. I don’t hate it, but I think it’s a knee-jerk trade.

  • PC

    They don’t want Tampa to get Lee. Which catcher would you prefer the Yanks to keep, Montero who’s a great hitter but below average defensively or Romine who is good but not a great hitter?

    • Doug

      you keep your catcher of the future. which, it looks like it’s been decided, is romine.

      • Tim

        That.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      Which catcher would you prefer the Yanks to keep, Montero who’s a great hitter but below average defensively or Romine who is good but not a great hitter?

      Both.

      • Rex Manning Day

        Maybe if Tex wasn’t locking up first base, and you didn’t have Posada, A-Rod, and Jeter taking up significant time at DH over the coming years, you could keep both. But with all those aging sluggers, the Yankees simply don’t need a permanent DH like that.

        Montero’s not a catcher, and the Yankees don’t really have a place to put him in the line-up if he can’t catch. They could keep him around, DH him when the old farts can play in the field, maybe plug him in at 1B on occasion, but that’s not a great use of a bat like Montero’s. That’s overkill for a fill-in DH. Which is nice and all, but it doesn’t maximize his value.

        Another team could get full value out of playing Montero, which means they would offer more for him. Like an elite starting pitcher. That means that Montero’s value to the Yanks is much, much higher as tradebait than as a player. Keeping him would not maximize his value to the team.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Then trade him for someone who’s not a three month rental.

  • Ross in Jersey

    This really just further proves my theory that when the Yankee organization raves about a prospect its solely because they want to showcase him for other teams. The guys they never talk about are the ones they really see as future stars for the team. Notice how they never talk about Romine? But it’s pretty clear he’s the guy they see as their catcher of the future. If they trade Montero they must have seen something that makes them believe he’s nothing more than a DH in the big leagues. If he can catch at all with his bat, he’s simply worth too much to trade for a 4 month rental.

    As for the trade itself, I think we have to withhold judgment because it simply doesn’t make any sense. They’d have 6 very capable starters. Like others have said, there would have to be another trade to go along with this.

    • http://www.yfsf.org AndrewYF

      Cashman raved about Hughes, and has absolutely refused to deal him at any point.

      They’ve also raved about Aceves, and are similarly raving about Noesi.

      Your theory is fatally flawed.

      • Ross in Jersey

        Just because they didn’t end up dealing Hughes doesn’t mean they weren’t trying to. I firmly believe that Hughes was supposed to be the centerpiece of a Santana trade, but then the Twins wanted the world so it never went through. Aceves, fine, you may have a point there though I never really considered him a major prospect.

      • Tim

        Aceves was never a prospect. They signed him out of the Mexican league when he was 25. And I think history has shown that teams’ takes on prospects should never be trusted as gospel. Remember, the Yankees were offering Robinson Cano to anyone who would listen in 2005. AZ could have had him in the Randy Johnson package, but they weren’t interested. How’d that work out?

        • http://www.teamnerdrage.com dr mrs the yankee

          Cano was not nearly a prospect the way Montero/Hughes/etc are. His production as an MLB player has been a nice surprise.

          I mean really, build your context, don’t just say things smugly.

          • Tim

            I never said he was. That’s the point. Cano right now is blossoming into one of the very best players in all of baseball on both sides of the ball, and a potential MVP. And the Yankees practically couldn’t give him away in 2005. At the end of the day, would anyone be surprised if Cano’s full career was far and away better than Montero’s, or Hughes’s, or Adam Jones’s, or Domonic Brown’s, or any of these other “surefire stud” prospects? It just seems so hard to grasp how so many experts can be so wrong about a guy, but it amazingly happens all the time. Which is why I am always willing to part with “top prospects” for proven MLB stars that are the right age, price, and personality.

            I don’t mean to be smug, and I’m sorry if it came off that way. I live in Cleveland – we are having a rough morning. Please forgive.

        • Ed

          Cano was also an option to be the second player in the A-Rod deal.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Baseball America ranked Aceves as the team’s 7th best prospect the one year he was eligible for their list.

          • Tim

            But he was already 25. I feel like that was probably more an indictment of the lack of depth in the farm system at that time.

  • http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec105

    Does this deal make everyone feel better if they can extend him?

    As much as I love Montero’s bat, was he ever really a #1 option behind the plate with Romine right behind him?

    I think they are selling high on Montero, and as for the 2B prospect, as someone mentioned, he’s blocked by Cano.

    • Tim

      This deal only gets done if they can extend him.

  • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

    I’m holding out hope it’s not Jesus. Prospects are usually the last part of these rumors that reporters figure out.

    • Joe

      its definitely montero

  • ChrisS

    Ugh … trading a potential elite bat for four months of a pitcher that has a striking split of being an average pitcher for six seasons and an elite pitcher for two and change. And he’s 31. And the Yankees have the best rotation in the AL anyway. And their catcher is 38, their DH is made of spun sugar, and their heir-to-be DH is still playing 3B.

    Don’t like it. Cliff Lee is heading for a massive correction. A 14.83 K:BB ratio is not sustainable. It’s a big reason for his success this year (his walk rate and K rate is line with his career stats, and his SO:BBratio is nearly 200% better than his career high).

    I just don’t see a soon-to-be FA starter that important to the Yankees chances to win the Serious in exchange for one of the best young hitters in baseball prospectland.

    • Ross in Jersey

      First of all there would clearly be another deal to accompany this, there’s no sense in having 6 front-line starters. Have to keep that in mind.

      I’m not sure your evaluation of Lee is fair. Yes, his K:BB ratio is not sustainable, but that’s just because he’s walked a ridiculously low number of batters. Even if he walks a bunch going forward, and his K:BB goes down to around 9 or 10, that’s still fracking amazing. He won’t suddenly become ineffective.

      And like I said above, assuming Montero is moved, I have to believe the Yankees feel he’s simply not cut out to be a catcher. In that case, he’s just a DH or maybe a 1B, and the Yankees simply don’t need that, do they?

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        And like I said above, assuming Montero is moved, I have to believe the Yankees feel he’s simply not cut out to be a catcher. In that case, he’s just a DH or maybe a 1B, and the Yankees simply don’t need that, do they?

        The Yankees need an elite young bat, which Montero is. Doesn’t matter if he’s only a 1B/DH.

        • andrew

          It sorta does matter a lot though if he’s only a 1B/DH.

          • ChrisS

            well, look to the future, Montero is a hotshot 1B/dh raking to the tune of a 1.050 OPS, Teixeira is 33, coming off a knee surgery and hasn’t hit over .900 in two years. It’d be a helluva lot easier to swallow trading teixeira and eating the remaining salary.

            Or, Montero is raking, Teixeira is raking, trade Teixeira and let another team eat his monstrous salary, opening room on the cap and signing the free agent pitcher du jour.

            Or Montero never hits all that well and the Yankees still have Teixeira who is.

    • Rob

      Sorry, but if the Rays were to get Lee, that’s one nasty rotation. Even the Twins with Lee and Liriano could beat the Yanks in a short series.

      I’m not in love with this trade, but like others are saying the Yanks know better than anyone if Montero can stick at catcher. If they’ve determined he can’t, then the proper move is to trade him. They can’t have a full-time DH, given the roster, and 1B is blocked. There’s just no place for him if not at catcher. Moreover, Romine is due for a promotion, and Montero is blocking him.

      Adams is a nice prospect too, but really no different than Co-Jo.

      Getting Lee, and perhaps Werth, means they’ve done all their free agent shopping in time for the stretch run and the playoffs and without giving up any draft picks. It’s not super easy to swallow, but I can get behind that strategy.

  • GermanYankee

    question: IF the trade is completed before today’s game would there be at least a theoretical chance that Lee starts AGAINST the M’s? Just curious because I’ve never heard about a pitcher being traded and starting against his former team on the same day.

    btw: I think that would be a great trade if the Yanks get a negotiation window and I think that’s the only way to accept the trade if ur the Yankees. Cliff Lee wouldn’t mind to sign an extension with the Yanks I guess.

    • Ross in Jersey

      Pretty sure Lee would have to pass a physical and the paperwork has to go through before he can pitch. The Ms obviously would be forced to pull him from starting, but there’s no way he’d end up starting against them.

    • Rose

      Sherman hears that the Mariners would get at least three prospects, including Montero and possibly second baseman David Adams. Lee is supposed to face the Yankees tonight, but that could change. If a trade is completed today, Lee will not face the Mariners tonight, or possibly for the entire weekend series.

      http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....f-lee.html (SAFE)

  • CountryClub

    I can see why they would trade Montero. He has a huge bat but if they really think he cant stick at catcher they have no way to play him for the immediate future. He obviously cant play 1st for thenext 5 years. And he cant really be a full time DH because they’ll need that for Posada, Arod and jeter over the next couple of years. I would be OK with them trading him for Lee (as long as they lock Lee up). I just wish he was a couple of years younger.

    The Werth deal I’m not as high on. Again, he’s 31 and will be looking for a new deal. Cash has done a good job at getting younger at most positions. I’d rather not see another aging contract come on board.

  • Rose

    I don’t understand the point of this. The Yankees have had the best record in baseball for a while now without a lot of things clicking and inconsistent hitting and pitching at times. The Yankees STILL have the best record in baseball and are on a 6 game winning streak (7 of last 8) and they’re seemingly making a panic move to grab Cliff Lee for highly touted prospects AND money they’ll have to fork over for an extension (or offseason deal). Why not do what they did with CC and wait?

    Is it perhaps because they’re worried about Phil Hughes innings limits more than we thought???

    • Rose

      why did “8″ get turned into a smiley face with sunglasses on?

      • Rob

        8 + ) = 8)

      • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

        It always happens- 8 )

    • Rob

      Don’t see how it’s a panic move. They’re doing their X-Mas shopping in July.

      If I were them, I’d be worried about my post-season rotation matching up against the Rays or Twins with Lee. Hughes may not have the bullets left. Burnett is as shaky as he’s ever been (including the 2009 playoffs). Vazquez is still Homerun Javy.

      • Rose

        True. And where the hell is Montero going to go in the future? They probably realize he’s not going to catch. Tex is at 1B for quite a while and Arod and Jeter are going to have a stranglehold on the DH spot for some time. He could maybe go in the OF? But I don’t think they’d do that…

        • Rob

          Yeah, I don’t know why they never tried him in RF or LF. Supposedly his arm is strong. I guess he’s just not especially quick.

          • claybeez

            Always wondered the same thing.

  • B-Rando

    I don’t have a clear feeling as to whether I like this deal or not, but it is funny to read some responses here.

    For some of the people trying to justify this trade, Montero went from “Teh Jesus!!!1!1″ to a guy that could never stick behind the plate, and may never be more than a DH.

    • Rose

      It is funny to see people on this site…people seem to agree (regardless) with whatever the Yankees do. While there is a sense of “well I guess we’re going to have to like it”…a lot of them spend a lot of time hyping up certain prospects and saying nothing but positive things about them…and once there’s a rumor of a deal or even the deal itself…it all comes out that the prospects they once boasted about…were nothing more than one dimensional “gambles” lol

      But it is entertaining to say the least.

      • B-Rando

        Yeah I totally agree.

        I guess its part of a “grieving” process or something over losing a prospect thats been celebrated around here for the past couple seasons.

    • Rob

      Not that he could never stick behind the plate. Just that if they’re trading him, that’s what the Yanks have obviously determined. They should know, right?

    • Mike Z From Sunny South Beach

      Montero went from “Teh Jesus!!!1!1? to a guy that could never stick behind the plate

      I was thinking the same thing.

    • Mike HC

      Its called being a fan.

  • Sam

    Let’s paint a picture, shall we?

    It’s October. The Tampa Bay Rays have just defeated the Yankees in the ALCS in 7 games behind Cliff Lee’s three victories. C.C. and Andy pitched beautifully, but Vazquez and Burnett got shelled, and Hughes pitched out of the pen because of the innings limit. Tampa goes on to win the whole thing. After the season, they offer Lee arbitration, and collect two high draft picks in next year’s loaded class to recoup the talent they gave up in the deal.

    The image of Evan Longoria and Cliff Lee raising the World Series trophy is burned into Yankee fans’ skulls. What will New Yorkers spend the entire offseason moaning about?

    “Brian Cashman should be fired because he didn’t have the balls to go out and get Cliff Lee in July.”

    Seems like the man can do no right. Ruben Amaro is the true idiot in this whole plotline.

    And speaking of Ruben: if Cash can somehow flip Javy and a decent spect for Werth, you now have your GM of the year.

    • AndrewYF

      I’d be fine with that. An epic ALCS that the Yankees just miss out on? And I kind of like the Rays, they definitely deserve their day in the sun.

      Then the Yankees get Cliff Lee and they’ll have both him AND Montero, a young, elite bat with whom they can win plenty more championships.

      Besides, they can certainly still win this year, even if the Rays do get Lee.

      Stop being silly, the Rays hoisting a championship will only get burned into the minds of NY sportswriters. I honestly think the only team Yankee fans truly do not want to hoist a championship trophy is the Red Sox.

      • andrew

        The Yankees signing Lee in the offseason is no given though. Plenty of teams will want him and there is no guarantee that the Yankees are his #1 choice. Not to mention that the bidding will drive the price up. In terms of money, we will probaly get him cheaper by signing him to an extension.

  • http://twitter.com/stophamm3rtime Dela G

    follow the words of andre 3000

    My partner yellin “Too soon! Dont do it! Reconsider!
    Read some litera – ture on the subject

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      (golf clap)

    • C.Roy

      Good song and reference :)

      • http://twitter.com/stophamm3rtime Dela G

        ha gotta rep that houston, tx sometimes :p

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Dump dump in the gut
          Raw from the giddy-up
          Better choose the right one or
          Pick pick the kiddies up

          • http://twitter.com/stophamm3rtime Dela G

            love love that song. The beat is off the hook

  • ChrisS

    Not to mention if the Yankees don’t see a ML roster spot for Montero, why trade him after a rough couple of months in AAA. Why not next year when he’s 21 and mashing with a 1.000 OPS in AAA? Surely they can get more than a 31 yo FA to be …

    • Doug

      and what if he’s not? his trade value drops

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        His trade value isn’t the issue if we don’t intend to trade him. Phil Hughes’s trade value rose and fell and rose again, but it was moot because we made up our minds to make him a part of our future.

        • Doug

          of course. guess it’s obvious then that they’ve decided romine, and not him, is the catcher of the future.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

            Still moot. If the Yankees made the decision that Montero simply had no future at all in this organization and absolutely had to be moved, they still shouldn’t trade him for the free-agent-to-be Cliff Lee.

            That’s not selling high, it’s selling low. It’s a panic move. We don’t need Lee and don’t need to move Montero now. We can wait for a better trade to materialize, which it will.

            • RL

              While from the outside this may appear a “panic move”, I’m quite sure much thought has gone into it. I’m not sure if I like the deal or not. I do feel it increases the team’s chances of winning this year, but by how much? And is that even necessary?

              Guess we’ll wait to see if it happens and have to wait a few years (if they then sign Lee longer term) to see how “bad” a deal it was to give up Montero at this point.

    • Mike HC

      I doubt it. I doubt Montero’s value has taken a hit, considering he has been scorching hot lately.

      Plus, Lee is about at good as it gets on the trade market, so I’m not sure what you would be waiting for.

    • Rob

      Problem is: At that point, they’ve either needed to move him out from behind the dish (dropping his value) or he’s still catching and blocking Romine.

  • emac2

    Wow!

    A depressing price to pay but I agree with the deal.

    Lee going to another team represented a 50% reduction in our chances of winning the world series. Going to Tampa could have been a nightmare for years.

    Not to mention we can’t go into the playoffs without a real number 2 starter.

    I think we can trade AJ and Vasquez for enough prospects to replace Montero – or Worth.

    • Teix is the man

      Burnett has a full NTC, not happening

      • C-Mac

        I’m pretty sure AJ’s is only partial for the record?

    • B-Rando

      Trade AJ and Vasquez?? Why oh why would they do that?

      And who is this “Worth” you speak of?

    • Mike HC

      Javy is the guy to be traded. Nobody wants AJ with that contract.

  • Mike HC

    Love Cashman as the GM. I trust in his moves.

    It seems like the Yanks are very honest with themselves when it comes to their own prospects. They saw AJax as a guy who will never develop power and thus made a move for a power hitting outfielder. With Montero, they obviously don’t see him as the catcher of the future, and he has no other spot on the team except DH, so why not get Cliff Lee for him (if the deal goes through). There are big hitting DH’s on the market every year.

    I’m on board with any decision he makes. That is the beauty of the Yanks. There is no two ways to skin a cat, but I like the way Cashman skins em.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      Love Cashman as the GM. I trust in his moves.

      Agreed in general. I hate this move, though. It’s an overpay based out of excessive and irrational fear.

      • Chris

        I agree that it’s an overpay, but I don’t think it’s done out of excessive and irrational fear. It seems to be more driven by excessive and irrational lust for Lee than a fear that someone else would get him.

      • http://twitter.com/stephen_mr Stephen R.

        Agreed. Which is why we have to wonder what in GODS NAME IS HAPPENING. ie Cashman doesnt overpay based on excessive and irrational fear.

    • Tim

      Amen, Mike. People forget, when Cashman talked about building up the farm system, it was for this very reason. It wasn’t just about developing your own talent, it is about using the promise of that talent to bring in top of the line major league stars to strengthen your team. Montero might become a great player, but on this team, unless he greatly improved behind the plate, he wasn’t going to have a place to play for a while. Right now, Cliff Lee is one of the three best pitchers in all of baseball. If you aren’t going to trade Montero for Lee, who are you going to trade him for?

      • Mike HC

        Exactly. And that does not even take into account the team has like three to four other highly touted catching prospects, so the future of the Yanks catching position basically stays the same. Meaning, bright.

        • Sheepmeister

          Keep in mind what happened to the Rangers a while back with all their loaded catching.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          And that does not even take into account the team has like three to four other highly touted catching prospects,

          Keep in mind that Montero’s star by himself shines brighter than all the other catching prospects do as a collective whole. If our minor league catching depth is rated as an A+, 60% of that grade is Montero and 40% of that grade is Romine/Murphy/Sanchez/Higashioka/etc. combined, who are all much further away and much less refined in the lower minors.

          • Doug

            the yanks must really not view him as a catching prospect anymore

            • Mike HC

              Right. They obviously did not want him playing catcher for their Major League team.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              It doesn’t matter. The Yankees need young bats. Put him at catcher and live with his horrible defense. Or teach him to be a horrible third baseman, or a horrible outfielder.

              Or if you’re legitimately concerned that he’s just never going to pan out as anything but a designated hitter, than trade him for someone NOT named Cliff Lee who’s NOT about to be a free agent. Trade him for Josh Johnson, which we probably could have done last year before the Fish extended him. Trade him for Matt Cain. Trade him for a young pitcher who you have no chance of getting without trading an elite blue chip prospect.

              Trading him for Cliff Lee is dumb. There’s no way around that fact, so I’m going to bold it: Blocked or not, catcher or not, trading a 20 year old top-5-in-the-game hitting prospect for a 32 year old pitcher who will be a free agent in 4 months is dumb.

              • Rose

                Blocked or not, catcher or not, trading a 20 year old top-5-in-the-game hitting prospect for a 32 year old pitcher who will be a free agent in 4 months is dumb.

                Perfect way to put it. I was trying to rationalize the situation but just can’t seem to find anything with any substance…

          • AndrewYF

            Shit, I’d argue Montero represents 60% of the Yankees’ minor league value. There aren’t three prospects in the Yankees’ system I would trade Montero for. Maybe not even 4.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        If you aren’t going to trade Montero for Lee, who are you going to trade him for?

        You’re going to trade him for a pitcher who isn’t over the age of 30 and isn’t going to be a free agent in a few months.

        I don’t want to trade Montero at all, because he fills an immediate and pressing need in this team’s short term and long term future, but if you do trade him, you trade him for a guy who you don’t have a very high likelihood of being able to acquire for nothing but cash later that winter. If we traded Montero as the headliner of a package for Felix Hernandez or Tim Lincecum or Josh Johnson or some under-30, under contract, hard to obtain pitcher, I could understand that.

        I cannot understand the logic in trading away one of the top 5 hitting prospects in all of baseball for a pitcher mere months away from unfettered free agency. We’re not selling high on Montero, we’re selling low on Montero. Three months of any player, even the best pitcher in baseball, is not enough for a 20 year old super-elite bat.

      • Ed

        If you aren’t going to trade Montero for Lee, who are you going to trade him for?

        It’s not really Montero for Lee that’s iffy. It’s 6 years of Montero for a few months of Lee that’s iffy.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          It’s not really Montero for Lee that’s iffy. It’s 6 years of Montero for a few months of Lee that’s iffy.

          Repeated for emphasis.

          • ANSKY

            THIS.

            • Rose

              Why didn’t Ed’s comment get a “THIS”??

              /nitpick’d lol

          • Tim

            I agree. That’s why signing Lee to an extension immediately is a must before completing this trade.

  • Hughesus Christo

    NO

    • http://twitter.com/stephen_mr Stephen R.

      I liked this comment.

  • Matty Ice

    So they offer Montero for Halladay straight up, but have to add in 3 other players for Lee?

    • Doug

      montero likely wouldn’t have been enough for halladay

      • Justin R

        Exactly…it wasn’t enough. Just because that is all they offered doesn’t mean it was enough for Halladay.

    • Mike HC

      Well, Montero alone was not enough to get Halladay, so if the Yanks want Lee badly, which they do, they had to add other guys in.

      • Zack

        Then you have to ask- if it took similar packages, would you want Halladay or Lee?

        • Mike HC

          good point. I don’t know why Cash’s stance has changed this year, but I am not going to bemoan the difference between Lee and Halladay. Lee is a Cy Young type pitcher.

          One thing I have learned, is that you can’t predict what Cash is going to do.

          • Zack

            Yeah, it was more of a rhetorical question. Like you said, what has changed between now and then.

    • B-Rando

      I don’t think theres anyway they wouldve gotten Halladay for Montero straight up. I’m sure there would be other prospects involved there as well.

  • Zack

    The MSM been saying for months that he’s a big time pitcher and who’s dominated the Yankees at times, then watch them turn on him after he walks like 4 guys in his first start or something.

  • Usty

    As long as they spin Javy into something productive, I think I’m on board with this. Sabathia-Lee 1-2 with AJ and Andy rounding out your playoff rotation is NASTY. If the Rays weren’t so close, I’d be a little more hesitant but gotta do what you gotta do to get a winner.

    Plus you also pick up Cliff Lee without giving up your 2011 first round pick in a loaded draft.

    • Ben

      This comment is so flawed. Trade our best prospect so we won’t have to lose a draft pick on an unproven player.

      • Usty

        You’re trading your best prospect for Lee. I’m just trying to look at some brightside of losing Montero and getting Lee 4 months early (besides the fact that he should be of great assistance in winning another WS)

    • Ed

      Plus you also pick up Cliff Lee without giving up your 2011 first round pick in a loaded draft.

      Montero >>> a late 1st round draft pick, even in a loaded draft

      Montero + good prospects >>>>>>>>> a late 1st round draft pick, even in a loaded draft

      • Klemy

        Trade aside, that’s not really the equation. You have to add Lee in there as well to make it real.

        • Ed

          Right, but we’ve already beaten to death that aspect of it already.

  • Sam

    I’m good with it if and only if they sign him to an extension. Even then, I don’t love it.

  • Operation Venditte

    I dont want this, I love the idea of having both Montero and Romine cause lets face it Frankie cant hit well enough to start and Jorge is gonna retire soon. Keep Montero, acquire a lesser starter and sign Lee after the season our rotation is good enough. I dont want Werth either he has looked horrible this year and I dont trust him.

    • Chris

      On Frankie…

      The average AL catcher is hitting .246/.317/.378/.695. Frankie is hitting .275/.327/.344/.671 for his career. Sure he’s never going to be a star, but he should be able to remain a league average catcher.

    • Tom Zig

      .376 wOBA/132 wRC+/132 OPS+

      Yup he definitely has looked horrible this year.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

    This is literally the dumbest shit the Yankees could have done since the Kei Igawa acquisition.

    • http://twitter.com/stophamm3rtime Dela G

      completely agree. this trade is moronic to me. I mean Javy has been pitching well, and in my mind, there isnt a need to trade for lee when we already have the best record in baseball. i can see if the red sox did this or the rays, but why rent him for the price of montero? The Yankees can get this guy in 5 months for the price of 2 draft picks and a guap. :(

      • Mikebk

        as of a few days ago, not sure right this second javy had the best era of all the starters in the last 10 starts. why make this panic move especially winning the first 4 of the road trip?

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        The Yankees can get this guy in 5 months for the price of 2 draft picks and a guap. :(

        Correction: The Yankees can get this guy in 5 months for the price of ONE draft pick and guap, since the other pick comes from the league. And that one draft pick will be offset by the TWO draft picks we’ll add when Javy leaves.

        • Mikebk

          agree. especially since javy is turning it around and has pitched very well the last 10 starts so he would get more than the 13 mil arb this offseason.

        • http://twitter.com/stophamm3rtime Dela G

          oh yeah i forgot about the javy thing

          thanks for correcting me

        • andrew

          Getting two picks for Javy is no guarantee. Yankees haven’t offered arbitration to anyone of that caliber in my recent memoery.

          • Ben

            And no draft player is a sure thing. Montero is about as close as you can be to a sure prospect. Giving up a draft pick to get Lee later is a lot better than giving up Montero to get him now

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              Giving up a draft pick to get Lee later is a lot better than giving up Montero to get him now

              That, again. The draft pick we’d give up to get Lee would be the 30th pick in the draft. You’re not finding a Jesus Montero level talent there, no matter how deep the draft class is.

          • Zack

            There was a thread on this issue yesterday.

            Abreu/Damon/Matsui were players who would have won a salary that was twice their market value.

    • Rose

      Agreed.

      But the more I think about it. Where is Montero going to play in the future (say he has a similar build and style to Miguel Cabrera and he couldn’t stick in the OF, 3B and can barely play 1B)? Will Andy Pettitte continue to be ridiculous in the 2nd half at age 38 (let alone stay healthy)? Will Phil Hughes “innings limit” game hurt him in the long run? Can AJ get somewhat consistent for a 2nd half or playoff run? Can Javy continue to be productive?

      I think it’s an overpay as well…but I think it speaks volumes of what management thinks of Hughes’ issue and everything else in the pitching staff come playoff time.

      • http://twitter.com/stophamm3rtime Dela G

        Montero can be the DH/C for dirt cheap for 6 years. Works fine for boston with V-mart (when healthy), why not for the yanks?

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Exactly.

          This idea that Montero has no place to play and thus we need to move him now for Lee is deeply flawed.

          We’re not the Mets trying to find a place to keep Mike Piazza’s bat in the lineup. We always have the DH spot as a fallback. Furthermore, Jesus Montero is only 20, he’s still in top physical shape and can stick behind the dish as a horrible defensive catcher or possibly even learn another position.

          • Rose

            I agree…but with Tex at 1B and Jeter and Arod into their 40′s on the team…along with who knows who else?

            I’m certainly not for this trade either…I’m just trying to rationalize it the best I can I guess.

        • Rose

          The Yanks are going to have Arod and Jeter into their 40′s…

          They can’t have either of them at 3B and SS that much longer…let alone both of them there for a while longer.

      • Mikebk

        wait your bringing up Miguel Cabrera’s career as a downside to Jesus. i would be there is not one person in here that wouldnt kill for Jesus to put up those numbers and we would all deal with figuring out where to stick him on the field.

    • kenthadley

      TSJC, you have about a half dozen comments on this thread, and I fully agree with each one. I usually don’t drink this early in the day, but I think I need one now.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        (cracks open a case of Pinstripe Lager™)

        • kenthadley

          I was hoping for a Rheingold Chug a Mug. That stuff would taste just as good today as it did when they made it 40 years ago. And it was lousy then.

        • Jose the Satirist

          Get that stuff on tap. We’re going to need a lot of it.

    • Ghost of Scott Brosius

      It comes down to talent evaluation and the team’s assessment of their best chances to win titles.
      Firstly, if the team is willing to trade Montero it means they have decided that he doesn’t have a great future with the organization- because of positional reasons or skills reasons. This evaluation could absolutely be incorrect, but an organization can only make judgements based on its own internal evaluations.
      Second, the Yankees are weighing their resources and opportunities. They know they can hit and score runs. For the last 10 years, the Yankees have hit and scored runs at an extremely high rate. On the current roster, they have two older offensive stars who they are committed to for the long term(Jeter, Alex). Even with decline, they assume they will continue to be very productive offensive players. They have a first baseman near the end of his prime who they believe will be an offensive force for another 4-5 years. They have an elite second baseman in his prime on his way to mega-stardom. They also have an emerging extremely productive right fielder in his prime. On the whole, a ton of offensive talent, not even mentioning players like Granderson and Gardner who are well above league average. Their one remaining offensive hole, will be catcher, where it has become eveident that they value defense over superb offense. And we have to assume that they will add other positional talent in the next few years.
      That leaves pitching. The Yankees believe they won the World Series last year because of an improvement in starting pitching. To win again this year, they believe they need another improvement in starting pitching. Cliff Lee, a top 5 pitcher in the AL if not all of MLB, represents that improvement, and a corresponding reduction in other teams chances to beat them by acquiring Lee.
      The Yankees thus know they have offense. They know they can get more of it if they need. What makes them nervous, despite their staff succeeding, is pitching, especially the risk of injury. If it takes sacrificing a potentially elite hitting chip oif the future to get an elite pitching chip now, they believe they have to make that move, to capitalize on their current roster and win championships while they can.
      Disagree with the evaluation if you will. But this is most assuredly not “dumb shit.”

  • Zack

    Lee is going to be sick in the 8th inning. no?

  • pollo

    i’m fine with this so long as we extend him.

  • Mike HC

    Now that I think about it again. I reeeeeeeaaaallllllly love Cash.

    AFter the stomach punch that LeBron gave NY, Cash lifts New Yorkers hopes with a Lee trade, and steals some of the ugly LeBron backlash away.

    There is hope in NY without LeBron!! ha

    • AndrewYF

      Sometimes, I really hate our fanbase.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        Most of the time, I really hate our fanbase.

      • jsbrendog (returns)

        i’m with ya.

      • Mike HC

        What about that comment annoyed you.

        I was pissed the Knicks lost out on LeBron, and happy the Yanks (might) add an ace to their rotation?

        • Jose the Satirist

          That fanbase comment seemed a bit unfair to you. People are just a bit touchy this morning.

  • AndrewYF

    You know what’s also dumb about this move? The Yankees could have easily, EASILY gotten Cliff Lee in the offseason for this same package, and forgone acquiring Javy.

    Now they have to unload Javy for much, much less than what they traded him for.

    It’s just a bunch of miscalculations that waste valuable resources. It’s fine when it’s just money, but the Yankee do not have an unlimited amount of promising young players.

    • Ross in Jersey

      How can you unload Javy for less than Melky Cabrera and a 19 year old with a elbow injury?

    • Chris

      The Yankees could have easily, EASILY gotten Cliff Lee in the offseason for this same package, and forgone acquiring Javy.

      Except they tried to get him, and the Phillies preferred the Mariners deal. In fact, if you believe the chatter, they offered Montero to the Phillies as the centerpiece to a deal for Lee and were turned down.

      • AndrewYF

        They offered him straight up. Now they’re offering even more.

        Just a dumb series of moves.

        • Jose the Satirist

          I don’t think the Yankees ever offered Montero straight up for Lee. Link?

        • Chris

          He was offered straight up for Halladay. I thought there was more to the offer for Lee, but I can’t find the link. Even if there are other prospects in the deal now, do they really make that big a difference? The chances of them having any impact on the Yankees (either by being traded for something useful or making the majors) are astronomically small.

          To me at least, the key part of this deal is Montero for Lee. The rest is basically window dressing. If the Yankees were willing to make the deal in the offseason, then why wouldn’t they be willing to make the deal now?

  • danny

    WOW, umm can you complain about getting such a great pitcher? i have to admit i’d be a little upset, i feel like Lee is a luxury not a necessity and to trade Montero for someone that we can just sign at the end of the year, I think, is a waste.

  • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

    This might be my homerism shining through, but I think David Adams and Jesus Montero + 2 prospects are better than Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Lou Marson and Jason Donald. How is half a season of Cliff Lee more valuable than a full season of Cliff Lee? We would be giving up more than Seattle gave up to get him in the first place.

    • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

      Not Seattle. Philadelphia. Sorry

      • Mikebk

        what are you talking about. that was the trade that got him to philly from cle. so it would have been 1 1/2 seasons.

    • Chris

      I think that there has been some doubt that he would be able to maintain his high level of performance. Through 2007 (when he was 28) he had a 4.64 ERA – not exactly the makings of a future ace. From 2008 through now, his ERA has been 2.79. It seems that GMs were skeptical that he would be able to maintain his improvement that started in 2008. Every game/month/season that goes by where he pitches well increases the odds that it’s not just a fluke.

  • Jose the Satirist

    If this happens it’ll be funny that some of the trolls who were ripped apart for suggesting it may have been right with their predictions. Blind squirrel, nut.

  • http://Yankees-news.webs.com Anthony

    Some r saying that it would take Romine and Javy 2 get Werth.if you trade Montero than at least u have Romine, but if u trade him for Werth then its 4 or 5 years 2 wait 4 Gary Sanchez.

  • http://fmylife.com JobaJr

    I’d love this to happen, but I’m still a little skeptical now with Olney saying no deal’s in place.

    • Mike HC

      Yea. We may be getting ahead of ourselves. Nothing is done yet.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      Update: No deal between the Mariners and Yankees is in place yet, and it may be that the news of the Lee talks could spur more talks with Twins, Rangers, Rays, Reds, etc. if one of those teams step up their offers.

      http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/18113049245
      http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/18113076415

      (crosses fingers that Minnesota, Texas, Tampa Bay, or Cincinnati steps up and saves us from ourselves)

      • danny

        hopefully.

  • mike c

    i’m going to go ahead and state the obvious, but if they are trading montero, they didn’t think he was going to be their catcher in the future

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      Irrelevant.

      • mike c

        suck a lemon, jerkoff

        • Jose the Satirist

          And now this thread goes downhill.

        • jsbrendog (returns)

          take off your internet tough guy hat

          • mike c

            i’m not the one picking a fight here bro, i’m just trying to have a discussion, not be insulted by professor smartypants

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              How is saying the word “irrelevant” equivalent to being “insulted”, and how does it make me “professor smartypants”?

            • Rivera Venue Blues

              He wasn’t calling anyone names though.

      • Mike HC

        Not that I’m saying you are wrong about thinking the trade is stupid, because you very well may end up right about that, but how do you think that is irrelevant.

        His future position on the Yanks directly affects his value.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          It’s irrelevant because whether or not you feel he’s a long term catcher, you don’t trade a top-5 minor league prospect for a 3 month rental that you are the odds on favorite to buy after that rental period expires.

      • Chris

        Not irrelevant. Maybe not the only piece of the deal, but what position they see for Montero in the future certainly plays a part in deciding his overall value and determining whether they will trade him.

        • mike c

          plus he’s a prospect, not a MLB star player– he may never be at all, so stop falling in love with the kid already

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

            It’s not about falling in love with the kid, it’s about pricing him appropriately. This deal is selling low on an elite 20 year old bat that scouts have compared to MVP candidates.

            Clearly, the Mariners have also fallen in love with him if they’re willing to sell their most valuable asset for a package fronted around him.

            • mike c

              well he’s absolutely the best prospect they’ve been offered in trade.. but the yankees probably know a thing or two about the kid they aren’t telling us, and if he’s not a C then his trade value will most definitely never be higher than it is now… i just don’t see a lot of other intriguing options right now– we’ve got an all-star at every position, plus a potentially better catching prospect to fall back on as well

        • Jose the Satirist

          This. His position isn’t the most important thing, but it is still important to his value. It just so happens his bat potential can make up for any position change. Although his value would still be lower than if he had the big bat and stayed at catcher.

    • Jose the Satirist

      His bat outweighs position.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        That.

    • Hello9

      Because we clearly thought arodys was never going to amount to anything as a pitcher. Or that Dioner would never cut it behind the plate. Additionally obviously Seattle thought Adam Jones + weren’t good enough to play for their club.

      Sometimes, you have to give up really really good prospects to get great players. If we started knocking every prospect who still had to work on something and only expected those guys to not be traded who were perfect then the list of guys who stayed with their team woudl start with Strasburg and end with Heyward.

      Either way, this would be an awful awful trade for the Yankees.

  • Capital T

    The last big trade I remember with Seattle was sending a young outfielder named Buhner for a veteran to help in the stretch named Phelps. Not saying Lee=Phelps

    The other thing about Montero on the team in the near future is that he would be cheap and help minimize the amount of $s the Yankees send to other teams

    • jsbrendog (returns)

      you are forgetting the tino martinez/jeff nelson trade my friend.

      jeff nelson, jim mecir, tino martinez for stirling hitchcock and russ davis.

      win and win

  • JohnC

    I honestly think the Mariners threw this out there to get other teams to ante up cause the last thing any team wants is to see Lee on the Yanks.

  • Mikebk

    might as well throw this out there, but is it possible it would be AJ and not Javy that is moved in a 2nd deal?

    • jsbrendog (returns)

      whio is gonna pay him for the next 3 years? no one.

      • Chris

        AJ has a limited no-trade so he can block deals to 10 teams. Not sure how it works and whether or not it would come into play, but it makes it harder to trade him – even if you don’t worry about the money.

    • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

      No.

    • Zack

      No

  • Hesh

    Too much. Great pitcher. Will be great pitcher next year on Yankees for massive contract we give him. 3 prospects for 2 months is just too much. Why wouldn’t we have made the same move in the offseason when he was on the Phillies. Wouldn’t a deal of Montero, Adams, and Vizcaino gotten Lee instead of Javy?

  • ANSKY

    I dont get this at all. Why trade Jesus, when you can just go after Lee in the offseason? Hasnt he already hinted that he’d go to the highest bidder? Its not like we really need him right now anyway. I thought we had the best record in baseball? I trust the FO but sometimes I feel like Cashman tries too hard to prove to everyone that he’s the smartest guy in the room.

    • AndrewYF

      “I feel like Cashman tries too hard to prove to everyone that he’s the smartest guy in the room.”

      If he makes this move, he’s not doing a very good job of it.

      • ANSKY

        Exactly. There is FAIL all over this potential deal.

        • Mike Z From Sunny South Beach

          Fail?

          I think Cashman is better at making trades then 99.9% of the posters on here.
          He actually watches Montero with his own eyes and not by reading about him on blogs.

          • ANSKY

            That may be true…but its not like he’s never made a mistake. Kei Igawa says hi.

            • Klemy

              Whole argument aside, I can’t equate Kei as the same mistake. They threw money at Igawa, not a highly regarded prospect package in a trade. That’s a big difference from a big prospect he watches for a known ace pitcher. Sure, he had to judge players somewhat, but I’m guessing scouts did a lot more watching of Igawa than Cashman did.

          • ANSKY

            Seriously though. I just dont see why you would want to give up a player for someone you can just throw money at later. In the offseason, all you’ll lose is money. Not a potential slugger who will be on the team at a very cheap price. Its too much for a rental.

  • feasor

    This price feels like Christmas shopping at Macy’s in mid-December.

  • daneptizl

    Jesus weeps.

  • Hughesus Christo

    This is stupid even if you think Montero isn’t going to be the Yankees’ solution at C longterm.

    They don’t need to waste that kind of asset on acquiring a 31 year old 5 months away from free agency (and then giving that guy a gigantic contract to boot). It’s asinine. Montero can be traded for something younger/better/cheaper in the future… or play for the Yankees.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      They don’t need to waste that kind of asset on acquiring a 31 year old 5 months away from free agency (and then giving that guy a gigantic contract to boot). It’s asinine. Montero can be traded for something younger/better/cheaper in the future… or play for the Yankees.

      Repeated for emphasis.

      • Klemy

        Do you really need to repeat his repeating of your previous posts though? :)

  • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

    The Yankees are really trading Montero? This is just stupid. This has less to do with “the Yankees winning this year.” But I would’ve appreciated him being here for the future, purely as a person that likes studying prospects.

    Arodys, and now Jesus. Ugh.

  • Hello9

    This is moronic. What about the yankees starting pitching has convinced the staff that we need to get Lee on rental in order to get to the series? As the team is currently built we have a pretty good shot at the WS and at that point its a crapshoot.

    Considering that our pursuit of Lee means we’ll probably throw money at him in the offseason this isn’t even an issue where we consider picks etc. This is simple a 2 month rental. A two month rental of a guy at a position where we are already stacked.

    Meanwhile we’ll be giving up a top 5 prospect specifically working on his catching ability who has top level hitting ability who will be under team control for years. These guys don’t grow on trees. Who’s the last plus plus hitting catcher prospect w/even mediocre defense? Even the great HOFWeiters hasn’t been able to give that. On top of that we’ll be a giving a solid hitting 2b and another prospect?

    I hope this is some type of sick joke.

    • Chris

      This is moronic. What about the yankees starting pitching has convinced the staff that we need to get Lee on rental in order to get to the series? As the team is currently built we have a pretty good shot at the WS and at that point its a crapshoot.

      Wouldn’t the odds in that crapshoot be much better if Games 1, 2, 5 and 6 were started by CC and Lee rather than CC and AJ?

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        Is the marginal upgrade on those odds worth giving up on a bat that’s been compared to Miguel Cabrera or Victor Martinez?

        I’ll answer for you: No, it’s not.

        • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

          This

        • Jose the Satirist

          But he can’t stay at catcher!!2!!!!

          • ANSKY

            Jesus to TEH 8TH!!?!?!

        • Chris

          There’s a huge gap between Miguel Cabrera and Victor Martinez. I would give up Victor Martinez for Lee without a second thought. Cabrera I’d at least have to think about.

          I know everyone is comparing this to the Steinbrenner era, but to me the difference is that George was famous for giving up prospects for a name that didn’t have the talent to back it up. Lee has proven that he has the talent, so it’s reasonable to give up a lot for him.

      • Hello9

        At this point youre talking CC and Andy with either AJ or Philly throwing in a start. Andy, not that anybody’s been noticing, has been brilliant this year. Additionally he’s a veteran who has a long track record in the playoffs.

        The odds would certainly be better but like the other reply said, are the marginal odds of winning those games better than having a guy like Montero under team control for the next 5/6 years as well as the possible upside of a 2b like Adams and another player?

        Even without considering the $ breakdown of such a potential trade (which considering we’ll be throwing money at Lee either way this offseason will obviously favor the mariners, and that there’s no chance we can even consider comp picks) we’re also talking about organizational philosophy. Having young cheap guys producing at an elite level has been as responsible for the Yanks success as any other factor. Despite our belief we have an unlimited payroll, we don’t, and guys who’ve been on mins/arby increase our ability to go after stars with big money.

        If we really care about winning so much and don’t care about money why don’t we throw a lesser package at say a Haren? A guy who’s not quite Lee but ups our marginal winning percentage, is younger, and has pitched well in the playoffs. A long term contract makes more sense with him and the only standing block is money which under that scenario wouldn’t be an issue for us. Maybe Haren isn’t the answer, but he’s illustrative of the fact that a return like Montero, Adams + can likely bring in a younger star player in the future, when we might actually have a real need on the team as opposed to just the desire for a marginal improvement.

  • Russell NY

    I literally pooped out my bagel as I was eating it when I read this.

  • AndrewYF

    We’ll know this move is pretty much final when Seattle replaces their starting pitcher tonight with someone else.

    Cashman wouldn’t burn a bridge with gamesmanship just to avoid having to face Cliff Lee one time in the regular season.

    • Chris

      The comments I heard this morning suggest that Seattle wants a deal done before the game tonight. It may be with a team other than the Yankees, so it’s not certain that changing the starter means that he’s a Yankee.

  • steve s

    It seems to me that the Yanks FO is not as enamored of Montero as the fans have been. This year he came into camp out of shape, has had a pedestrian year in Triple A so far, has been benched for discipline reasons and apparently the Yanks have been dangling him in other deals. Yanks must think they are selling high and that Montero’s value will be slipping and, quite frankly, they are in better position to make these “inside” type determinations than any of us civilians.

    • Mike HC

      Yea. I see it like that as well. They obviously don’t think he is the next Miggy Cabrera or Mike Piazza, because if they did, I really hope they would not make this deal.

    • Hello9

      Maybe, but I’d be very hesitant of a FO that’s making such a definitive assessment of a 20!!!!! year old in AAA. A guy who’s been heating up lately and has supposedly specifically be working on his defense.

      FO’s are fallible too. I trust them to make the right call but I’m not comfortable with giving them carte blanche. I’m a loud and opinionated ny’er. I’ll damn well tell them when I think they’re idiots (and then create a Cashman statue when Lee wins game 7 of the WS for us).

  • Ross in Jersey

    I’m surprised how much people overrate prospects. Is Austin Jackson still the next Willie Mays?

    • ANSKY

      No but Jesus could be the next John O’Dowd.

      • Rose

        Or just the next hispanic version of Jon Dowd, the slap-in-the-face Barry Bonds clone EA Sports made in Bonds’ absence for the game. I’m sure Bonds’ wasn’t thrilled when he saw his replacement was a hammerin’ monster white guy haha. But that’s neither here nor there.

        http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/....._image.jpg (SAFE)

        • ANSKY

          LOLZ. Thanks for the name correction. I couldnt remember it.

    • Hello9

      Do you watch baseball outside of the yankees?

      AJax is currently the 13 highest ranked OF in the AL in terms of WAR. He’d immediately be our best defensive outfielder. He’s already given a +1 WAR advantage to the Tigers over what Grandy has given to us. Even if you think his line is unsustainable, when you consider he’s 23 and Grandy is 29 going ahead there’s a high likelihood just AJax by himself will be worth more than Grandy.

      That’s not even considering Kennedy who was a useful trade piece and is now a serviceable pitcher in AAAA. Phil Coke also happens to be one of the better relievers in the AL this so far.

      • Ross in Jersey

        Do you?

        Ajax has been steadily dropping in every offensive category since his amazingly lucky April and May, so I don’t “think” his line is unsustainable, I know it is. He’s on pace to strike out near 200 times, and has zero power.

        Granderson, meanwhile, has been disappointing, yes. But he also was injured for the better part of a month, so the WAR comparisons are hardly fair. In fact its pretty amazing that Granderson still projects to be a 3.0-4.0 CF despite the injury and struggles.

        And wow, yeah, I’m absolutely crying myself to sleep because the Yankees don’t have Phil Joke and Ian Kennedy anymore. Please.

        • Hello9

          Wait so Granderson’s injuries are irrelevant to his projection as a player? Are you kidding?

          And even if you don’t think Ajax line is particularly sustainable half of his worth comes from his defense, which only project to get better. Additionally, thats not the main advantage Ajax has. He’s 23. Everything about him is projected to improve. Meanwhile, EVERY SINGLE THING about Grandy will likely deteriorate with age and his amazing ability resemble a platoon hitter at times (there’s a certain charm to complaining about a 23 yr old’s k numbers when discussing Granderson by the way). The post I put up was in response to the poster who put up the comment claimed that everyone had overrated Ajax. So far, if you even expect regression from his hitting line in teh future and don’t peg him to ever improve, he still looks like a 2-3 WAR player, which is really useful one and frankly is all anybody should feel comfortable project Grandy to be in the future. Couple that with the increased potential to improve and the $/team control issues and this debate becomes a joke.

          (By he way, Jackson’s actually rebounded since his awful beginning to June and has had a solid last month)

          If we want to talk regression though let’s talk about Grandy’s from his amazing ’07 season. His WAR has consistently dropped and even in last year all star season he was a 3 win player.

          And it’s hilarious that you’d poo poo useful guys like Kennedy and Coke. Especially Coke as we continue to throw out the carnival of mediocre reliever out there in Chan Ho and DRob. And we all know long men and 5th starters are so easy to find and not valuable at all. It’s why the Aceves injury has barely been a blip.

          Please, please tell me how the Grandy trade looks like rainbows and butterflies right now.

        • Hello9

          Never mind, I just realized you were the original poster/idiot who tried to create the AJax/Mays strawman.

  • ANSKY

    Add the whole trading Javy for Werth thing, and now I’m really sick to my stomach. Why do this? Javy has rebounded, Gardner has been playing very well. Why get Werth and his bad beard/knees when you can just throw money at him or Crawford in the offseason?? I hope this is some sick joke being played on NY by the MSM and Lebron James. The trade proposals reak of desperation…and we’re in first place.

  • Ben

    I have seen people make the cmment that we won’t have to give up a draft pick to get Lee if we trade for him now. This claim is ridiculous as Montero is more proven, and better, than anyone we would take with the 28-30 pick in next year’s draft.

    • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

      Yeah, honestly it’s just plain idiotic.

      If the Yankees don’t win the World Series this year, this would have been such a failed trade.

      • Hello9

        THIS.

        Under this scenario we would have traded the savior, a potential top 100 bubble prospect and something else for a couple WAR.

        Break out the bubbly.

    • Hello9

      It also ignores that we’re likely to a couple extra comp picks because we’ll finally have a few cases where we’ll be offering arbitration this offseason.

  • Januz

    I was just watching Sport Center, and Buster Olney said there the trade has not went down yet. Other teams have talent to offer (ex: Texas offering Justin Smoak and others). But assuming the trade goes down, there are a number of questions that need to be addressed before bashing or praising the trade. 1: Do they think that Montero will stick at catcher? If not his value declines. 1a: Do you think Romine is much better defensively? Catcher is a defense first position: Handling pitchers, throwing out runners, blocking balls in the dirt etc. 2: Will Lee put this team over the top, and bring Title 28? Self explanatory. 3a: Will he resign? Again self explanatory. 4: Assuming Vazquez is traded who do you get for him? 5: How good do they think will Gary Sanchez be? 6: Who gets traded along with Montero? 7: Who is added to the system from this draft? If they sign guys like Jordan and Williams, that would offset the loss of Montero (Particularly if you think he will not be a catcher), 8: By keeping next year’s 1st rounder, who do they get? These type of questions are the ones that Cashman and the staff have to ask themselves (Trust me, they have analyzed everything). There is one given……… Just like with Lebron, there will be a given time we will know one way or another: 9PM est.

    • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

      A couple of draft picks don’t offset losing a top 5-10 prospect in baseball. What the hell?

      Also it’s a not a fact that the Yankees are going to win the World Series, but now they absolutely better win the WS.

      • Ben

        Thank you Angelo for thinking sanely

  • B-Rando

    I’m not a huge fan of seeing Montero leave. However, I can see why Cash wants to make this trade. If he can turn Vasquez into Lee while adding Jason Werth to the line up, it makes much more sense.

  • Rose

    The fact that they’ve passed on this same thing before with Santana and waited for Sabathia – then realized it was the greatest decision they could have ever made with that scenario has to get you to wonder why the hell they’re considering doing the opposite right now…

    Their concern for the playoff starting rotation (and/or 2nd half starting rotation) must be pretty significant. There is no other rational explanation for doing the EXACT opposite of what they had done before which had been so successful. There has to be more to this…

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      The fact that they’ve passed on this same thing before with Santana and waited for Sabathia – then realized it was the greatest decision they could have ever made with that scenario has to get you to wonder why the hell they’re considering doing the opposite right now…

      Especially since both the Santana and Sabathia non-trades happened when we didn’t have 5 good pitchers in our rotation, and this potential Lee trade would happen when we DO have good 5 pitchers in our rotation.

      It’s nonsensical. Not only is it selling low on Montero, but it’s doing so to fill a position that isn’t a need in the first place.

    • Klemy

      This is where I keep landing as I toss this around in my head. You’ve pretty much said it right on with what I keep thinking.

  • mustang

    Great move.
    1- Can’t see this being a rental not for Montero.
    2- Montero is a great bat, but doesn’t look to be much of a catcher. Where are they going to put him DH?
    The development of Cervelli and the deepness at catcher in the minors makes Montero more expendable.
    3- They can turn over Javy for more prospects or other needs.
    4- Left-handed playoff proven starting pitching. THE END !!!!!!!

    Bonus- They keep him away from everyone else.

    • mustang

      Dear, Brian

      Thank you for making up for LeBron.

      Love you

      Mustang

    • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

      1) Cervelli is a back-up catcher and nothing more, so that doesn’t make sense.

      2) Even if Montero fakes it at catcher, he has a lot of value because of his bat.

      3) It doesn’t make sense to trade Montero to get 4 months of Lee.

      Negative- The Yankees could have kept Lee away from everyone else regardless. If Lee was coming for the money before, he would’ve joined next season.

      • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

        Also, this trade looks far worse if they don’t win the World Series this year.

        • mustang

          No disrespect, but who cares.
          I don’t think trade should or shouldn’t be made base on that.

          • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

            But that’s exactly why this trade is being made. It’s to win the World Series.

            Beyond that, this trade is pointless.

            • mustang

              What I meant is who cares what the trade “looks like” if the they happen not to win. They make this trade to make themselves stronger.

      • mustang

        1-Cervelli is batting .270 with 30 RBI’s with his D and Jorge still around that’s good enough until the other catching prospect develop.

        2- That Yankees line-up is full of great bats and if he is not going to be a catcher where do they put him?

        3- I don’t think Lee is going to be a rental if he is then they shouldn’t do it.

        Again I rather have him then face him
        .

        • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

          1) Cervelli has been hitting like crap for almost 2 months. Dig up the stats. He’s a back up catcher, everyone knows that. He’s not going to be a good everyday catcher. RBI’s are not very telling of a player’s talent. Use real statistics.

          2) Who said Montero wouldn’t be a catcher? He will probably be a C/DH, but that has a lot of value if the bat is a Miguel Cabrera.

          3) Lee is a rental no matter how you put it. He could have been acquired at the end of the season, so yes that’s a RENTAL. They were probably going to sign him in the off-season regardless.

          4) Anyone would rather have Lee, rather than face him. Who wouldn’t? I’d rather have any great player rather than face him.

          Nevertheless, the biggest point is, if the Yankees don’t win the World Series, this trade was just plain stupid.

          • Chris

            3) Lee is a rental no matter how you put it. He could have been acquired at the end of the season, so yes that’s a RENTAL. They were probably going to sign him in the off-season regardless.

            Every player is a rental. Once they got rid of the reserve clause, every player became a rental – the only question is for how long.

            • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

              Are you trying to be silly? Because you should understand what I meant.

              Half a season = rental.

              2 years+ = not rental.

              But if you want to continue go ahead.

    • Ben

      Even if we trade Javy for prospects that only offsets what we gave up to get him, not Montero so stop making this comment.

      • http://soxandpinstripes.net Angelo

        Exactly. Last time I checked, the Yankees gave up Arodys, Mike Dunn, and Melky. (the important prospect being Arodys)

      • mustang

        Ok good point and I made the comment once.

    • mustang

      BTW Montero was the same guy that the Yankees were willing to give up for Halladay. So no matter how much we like Mr. Montero it seems that the Yankees are willing to deal for top starting pitching.

  • Ben

    People need to stop being ridiculous. No draft pick can replace Montero or is as proven. And even if we trade Javy for prospects that only offsets what we gave up to get him, not Montero so stop making this comment.

  • Hello9

    One of the hilarious lines is that this will give the yankees a dominant rotation for years that can guarantee another dynasty. Not even considering that injuries happen all the time this would be true is the yankees went out and signed Lee this offseason!

    We are literally talking about a Montero/Adams/+ trade for one season/3months/marginal improvement at winning one title trade.

    • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

      Exactly.

  • mustang

    9:35am: The Lee-Yankees deal is “just about done,” an executive involved in the negotiations tells ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (Twitter link). An official with a team interested in Lee tells Ed Price of AOL FanHouse that the Mariners appear to be negotiating exclusively with the Yankees (Twitter link).

  • Rose

    Mariners are now “negotiating exclusively” with the Yankees.

    Bad Form…

  • Hello9

    Everytime I look at this trade, my opinion of Cashman continues to worsen.

    This is the type of reflexive, myopic crud that ny’er fans and front offices are sterotyped with all the time. If this goes through and considering that the knicks don’t have a 1st round pick until about 2050 I’ll begin to think that its true.

  • Frigidevil

    I hate this. Sure, we aren’t guaranteed Montero is going to be the stud we all think he is, but to trade away that for 3+ months of a pitcher!? I don’t care that it’s the best pitcher out there, why do we need him right now? We have 3 all stars starting, AJ will come around and Javy finally has come around. Sure, Lee would give us far and away the best rotation in baseabll, but don’t we ALREADY have the best rotation!?

    If it were to get Lee for say, 5 years, I’d be ok with it, but we’re probably going to get him this off season anyway!

  • ROBTEN

    After reading through the reports and all of the comments, my response is still fairly emotional:

    http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

  • A.D.

    I can understand trading Adams and the 3rd prospect (I’m going to guess pitching) but to trade Montero makes me feel the Yanks don’t believe he can be a catcher, as effectively they’re trading Lee for a first round pick (+ himself for the next few months), either the one they’ll acquire by offering arb, or the one that they would lose when signing him, and Montero is obviously greater than a first round pick.

    Am I opposed to trading for Lee, no, but somewhat morgaging the farm for a rental seems against what the org has been doing.

  • Zack

    So does this mean Jack Z won’t have an hour long special on ESPN to tell us where Lee will end up?

    • JM

      +1

  • Ben

    According to MLBTR the talks have hit a “snag”.

    • ROBTEN

      This, it seems to me, is the key part of that update:

      Davidoff and ESPN.com’s Buster Olney both note (via Twitter) that the Yankees will not get a negotiating window for a contract extension.

      http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....f-lee.html

      Perhaps this is the “snag,” but trading Montero and not getting a negotiating window for a contract extension as part of the deal? Really? If that’s what happens, then wow.

      • Jose the Satirist

        My thoughts exactly. I imagine Cashman would be extremely hesitant with no negotiating window promised.

      • Pudge

        depressing….just depressing!

  • The zack

    God this sucks.

  • Rivera Venue Blues

    I keep hoping that the Rays would just jump in and offer Wade Davis, Desmond Jennings, and Jeremy Hellickson and save us from this mistake.

  • GermanYankee

    wow, it would be so sick if the Yankees trade for him, he refuses to sign an extension and signs elsewhere as a FA. But I pretty sure he’ll be a Yankee for 4-5 years.

  • Tophitter

    At some point this team has to think about getting younger. And what about this talk about financial restraint. I am not saying that David Adams and whomever the other prospects are will be All-stars, but come on!! This team could end-up in 2013 looking like those Yankees teams of the mid-eighties old and out of it.
    Not crazy about this potential trade. Foolish move if it is done.

    • pat

      This team could end-up in 2013 looking like those Yankees teams of the mid-eighties old and out of it.

      Just to play devils advocate, we’ll probably have won every World Series from now until 2013.

  • Rose

    Just thinking. CC Sabathia’s decision must have something to do with this whole ordeal.

    Perhaps it entices him to stay and not opt out? Or perhaps it’s insurance in case he does? But the money given to Cliff Lee in any extension could trigger CC to opt out and request more as well and perhaps backfire if that had been the case…

    I don’t know…just trying to think of something here. Having a hard time understanding it.

    • Jose the Satirist

      If CC were to opt-out I don’t think he would come back.

      • Rose

        That’s true…but with Cliff Lee off the market…imagine what CC’s agent is going to tell him about what he could possibly get.

        No (very) good pitchers at all will be available. Literally.

      • 28 this year

        maybe CC wants to stay and win and not go for the money like LeBron and play with a good friend Cliff Lee.

        At least, I hope

        • Rose

          He won his championship and originally wanted to be on the west coast close to home and his family.

          Plus, could the Yankees afford all of this?

          Sabathia stayingg, Cliff Lee’s new deal, Derek Jeter’s new deal, Mariano Rivera’s new deal, and whoever else?

          • Pat D

            I’m of the opinion that CC would be foolish to opt out, no matter what the Yankees might give Lee in a contract.

            There’s obviously been a market correction in baseball in terms of these huge contracts. The Yankees are the only team handing out these mega-deals anymore. There’s no way that CC will get more money out of another team if he opts out.

            • Zack

              If he opts out he leaves 92m on the table, he’ll be 31 as a free agent. He can get 5years/100m.

  • JM

    SO is this pretty much done?

    • Rose

      Nope. Thankfully it hit a snag.

      • JM

        what is a “snag”, slow down?

        • Rose

          Yeah. A (brief?) stop in negotiations. A disagreement of sorts regarding something on either side.

        • phughesisgod(save Montero!)

          could mean a slow down or a deal that is dead. Im hoping that this deal is dead.

    • Jose the Satirist

      It has hit a “snag”. It probably will happen though. When they are exclusively negotiating with just the Yankees, they will most likely correct the “snag”.

      • ROBTEN

        Well, not that this can’t be an extended negotiating ploy, but Davidoff just posted this:

        #Mariners have told many interested teams that they’re out of the Lee sweepstakes. All signs point to #Yankees completing this deal.

        http://twitter.com/KenDavidoff/status/18125569731

        • Jose the Satirist

          I bet you it’s done. We just have to wait for the leak of the players involved.

  • phughesisgod(save Montero!)

    NO! NO! NO!

    What the fuck, Cash?!? What ever happened to the no trading for free agents to be in the off season, especially when you give up your top prospect? BOO! Please be false, please be false! Listen, I would love to have Lee, but for maybe not even a full season and at the cost of Montero, Arodys Vizcaino, Melky and more prospects? Fuck that! And yes, the Vazquez trade counts toward this one as well, because he would be turned around and traded. Sorry, this would not be a smart trade, and I would probably give Cashman an F in this one, unless, some how, someway, we can get the Mariners to take Vazquez, Adams, and a catching prospect not named Jesus Montero or Austin Romine.

  • pat

    Im hoping this is just a ruse to drive the price up for other players. Maybe Cash knows they won’t get a window, and has given Seattle a new asking price for other teams. I know it seems unlikely but it could be some ninja warfare type stuff.

    • Jose the Satirist

      Unlikely. Once you go to the exclusive negotiation stage, there is little “driving up price” business going on. You mean business.

  • JM

    Wow it looks done according to MLBTR

  • phughesisgod(save Montero!)

    Ill take Lee, at a price of Javier Vazquez, David Adams, and Gary Sanchez(the M’s want a catching prospect, and I am more willing to trade him than I am Montero or Romine).

    • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

      Javy is useless to the M’s.

  • Poopy Pants

    Cash is just trying to make up for his huge fail of a prediction about LeBron.

  • mustang

    James Yesterday and this today I”m going to need a vacation from sports.

  • Rose

    The Mariners initially had a ‘huge’ asking price for Lee, but lowered their demands yesterday. – MLBTR

    I think this is the most interesting part of it all. What the hell could they have been possibly asking for before when it was “huge”?

    • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

      They originally wanted A-Rod and $250 million. It has come down considerably since then.

    • Tom Zig

      Probably Montero + Romine + Manny B?

  • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

    Now we have to wait until 9:00 PM when ESPN will have a 1 hour special where Chris “Boomer” Berman will interview Cliff Lee to find out if he’s traded! Ugh!

    • Zack

      ‘So Cliff “the big red dog HAHA thats funny cause your name is Cliff” Lee, are you going back, back, back, back to the American League?’

      • Pat D

        And I could completely see him asking that, too.

        Berman’s become such a parody of himself.

        • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

          +1

    • mustang

      LMAO…. Think of the poor Seattle fans especially if they sweep them. ” We are the Yankees we will take 3 wins and your best pitcher thanks.

      • Hello9

        Yeah I’m sure fans of a 51 loss team will be crying into their cereal about that extra win they lost out on in exchange for a top 5 prospect in all of baseball, a +hitting 2b prospect and anotehr guy all under team control for a while.

        • mustang

          Oh please take it down a bit for all you know the prospects can turn out to be shit. That why they are called prospect.

          prospect thing= Taken too far.

          • Hello9

            No. A prospect at low A ball is different than a guy holding his own at AAA and AA. By your deluded logic guys like Heyward and others should be available because they are prospects.

            Additionally, a good prospect is under team control for below market salaries for about half a decade. I know, difficult stuff to understand for people impressed by the hr derby.

  • Mooks

    Believe it or not, Cashmen and the rest of the Yankees brass probably know a lot more about Montero/Romine/Sanchez than we do. Maybe they see Romine and Sanchez as the stud catchers of the future but they see Montero at the top of all these prospects lists today and they want to sell high. In Cash I trust, and so should all of you.

    • JM

      +28

    • Ben

      Why should we have blind faith in Cashman. He has made his fair share of bad moves. He is no Mike Tannenbaum

      • http://twitter.com/dpatrickg Dirty Pena

        You’ll rue the day you thought Cromartie and the RB solution were good ideas my friend.

      • mike c

        good point– but there’s no reason you should necessarily have blind faith in montero either

    • Zack

      I think what everyone is saying that, you’re not selling high because you’re getting him for less than half the season.

      • Mooks

        True, but who knows what that half season will be worth in terms of a WS ring in 2010. Like someone else said, if the Rays went and got Lee to go with Price, that would be a tough ALCS. Not only does this help the Yanks enormously this year, it also significantly weakens the competition.

        • Hello9

          so a marginal increase in our probability of winning the WS in 2010 (when we already probably had one of the highest probabilities to do so) is worth team control of a top 5 prospect 20 yr old catcher at AAA, a solid 2b prospect at AA and more?

    • Hello9

      This has been addressed above. FO’s are fallible. Cash’s record has been solid but nothing amazing. Additionally, if you want really great player sometimes you have to trade really really good prospects. This is the type of deluded argument that gets a team a starbury and stevie franchise and a bunch of idiot fans who are excited about only winning now.

    • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

      I am a Cashman supporter, but I am starting to get tired of the “The Yankee FO know a lot more about these guys than we do” line every time someone doesn’t like a move. I completely agree that Cash has infinitely more knowledge about the Yankees system than I do, but I can still dislike a move or think it’s incorrect.

      I do not like this trade. I might be wrong, but then again Brian Cashman just might be wrong.

  • feim

    Why not a three way deal? Javy to Minny, Wilson Ramos and Adams plus some one else to Seattle and Lee to tha Yanks?

  • Rose

    How are the Yankees going to pay for all of this?!?

    (MULTIPLE INTERROBANGS!?!?)

  • EvoLuTioN aka Jobamania

    I just do not believe cashman would trade away montero to get lee a few months earlier.

  • Tampa Yankee

    So.. if this goes through and the Yankees do flip Javy for Werth, do they try and resign him or offer him arb? Werth’s a type A so that means they’ll keep their pick for not signing Lee this offseason and one would imagine Werth wants a multi-year deal and would decline arb giving the Yankees 2 more draft picks next year. Three 1st rounds picks in total next year would ease the pain of losing Montero.

    • AndrewYF

      Any team acquiring Werth will offer him arbitration.

      I can’t see the Phillies trading him. That would be almost as stupid as trading Montero+ for 3 months of Cliff Lee.

      • Tampa Yankee

        The Yankees, Red Sox and Rays have told the Phillies that they would have interest in Jayson Werth if he is available, according to George A. King III of the New York Post. We heard yesterday that the Phillies, who would like to add a proven starter, are discussing possible Werth trades with ‘a lot of teams.’

        http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....werth.html

        • ROBTEN

          The Yankees have not asked for a window to negotiate an extension. They believe that they can outbid anyone in the offseason for Lee anyway, so why not see if he likes New York and the Yankees like him before investing the money.

          http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....Yu0usc68YP

          So, it looks like no negotiating window was not the “snag.”

          Wow.

          Montero/Adams for three months of Lee and the assumption that you will simply outbid everyone in the offseason anyway?

          Wow.

          /stun’d

          • ROBTEN

            So stunned that this was posted in the wrong place.

  • Joe

    Hopefully the third player included is not Hector Noesi. Really like this kid a lot. I’m one of the biggest Montero fans but it makes sense because Mo, Posada, and Pettite don’t have much left. Look at it this way, if Montero turns out to be what we had hoped then we can get him back in 5-6 years. It is only money.

    • Ben

      And we can get lee for only money in 5 months. Your logic is flawed.

      • Joe

        Ya, but Lee right now gives you a better chance to win NOW. Montero is still 20 and would not make an impact now when it matters becasue the veterans are getting old.

    • Pat D

      Yea, it is only money.

      Just listen to these guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBvnxxigrIM (safe)

    • Hello9

      Yeah, Buhner for Phelps won’t bite us in the ass.

      • Usty

        Cliff Lee is NOT KEN PHELPS.

  • Rose

    What if this was all just a big ploy to mess with Cliff Lee’s head and preparation for tonight’s match up?

    GENIUS!

  • pat

    We have to dump Javy.

  • feim

    If M’s get Montero… Would they call him to the show inmediatly?

    • Pat D

      That would be silly, I think. He’s only 20 and probably not yet ready to catch every day.

      • Hello9

        They could call him up to DH sporadically and then platoon with their homegrown prospect at catcher next year.

        • Pat D

          What homegrown catcher prospect? I thought that’s why they needed one from whoever they made this trade with?

          • Hello9

            Adam Moore. Defensive guy with a limited bat, but who should be league average for a long time.

            He’s the type of guy who they can obviously improve on if Montero stays at C, but who won’t hurt them too much if he’s their catcher. Its why theyve had more flexibility with just looking for a ready to contribute bat.

    • http://Yankees-news.webs.com Anthony

      Buster Olney said that both David Adams and Jesus Montero would be in the Mariners lineup in 2011

  • Rose

    Rosenthal puts a Javier Vazquez – Jayson Werth swap at 50-1 odds.

    Those are the same odds that were given to Team USA winning the World Cup…

    • Rose

      reply fail.

      should have gone with pat’s message above.

  • ANSKY

    Just read the update and now I hate the deal even more. So the Yankees dont get a window to sign an extension but Cashman is confident that he can sign him long-term? I just dont get this. Why is he not confident that he can sign him long-term in the offseason then? BOO all over this deal!

  • Hello9

    Cliff Lee’s career splits against AL teams:

    http://www.baseball-reference......r&t=p

    • Rose

      Interesting. The teams he’s faced over 100 IP – he has a pretty mediocre-to-bad ERA against. But whatever.

  • nsalem

    Would be fairly wild to see him in a Yankee uniform pitching tonight.

    • 28 this year

      i think physicals, etc. will prevent Lee from pitching in this series altogether.

    • http://Yankees-news.webs.com Anthony

      He could pitch this series, but the Yankees and Mariners will have an agreement that Lee can not pitch versus them in this series.

  • Russell NY

    From MLBTradeRumors:

    10:44: Catching prospect Jesus Montero and second base prospect David Adams will head to the Mariners, possibly with another prospect, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post, who broke the story.

  • mustang

    1044: Catching prospect Jesus Montero and second base prospect David Adams will head to the Mariners, possibly with another prospect, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post, who broke the story.

  • mike c

    hypothetical: tampa gets lee, wins WS. Lee resigns with rays, andy retires and CC opts out of his contract. the lebron thing i believe made cash push the red button and give up the jesus for arguably the best pitcher in the AL. i hope you guys like WS rings, because we just bought insurance for the next few

    • jsbrendog (returns)

      seriously can people stop bringing up lebonr? he has NOTHING to do with anything at all. not even remotely

      • Rose

        yeah, i’ll never understand it.

      • mike c

        he just single handedly ruined the knicks franchise for the next era, while making the heat the favorites to win the next 5– not necessarily related but definitely an interesting drama. now when you say “baseball needs a salary cap and the yankees are unfair” you can simply say “miami heat”

        • mike c

          sorry now when you mets fans say “baseball needs a salary cap and the yankees are unfair” you can simply say “miami heat”

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          he just single handedly ruined the knicks franchise for the next era,

          No, he didn’t.

          • Hello9

            The knicks management has ruined the knicks for the next era. Just like they ruined it for this one and for every ever post Ewing. The knicks management are the JP Riccardi of basketball.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              Wrong.

              The Knicks strategy was correct, and nothing has failed yet. If LeBron chose not to come here, this team is still positioned to get some other elite player in the future (Paul, Anthony, Williams, etc.).

              There’s no point in remaining in the middle in the NBA. You should either have multiple superstars and compete for the title or be a horrible team with no money committed to anyone. The Knicks of today are one of those two options; the past decade of disaster was being stuck in the middle (bad players with no cap room.)

              • mike c

                the knicks strategy was too quick, but they were too late… if you’re saying they can put together a team in the next 5 years that can beat miami– that’s a possibility although many things have to go perfectly right for that to happen, and they absolutely need to start drafting better because hedging bets on signing other teams’ players is far from a sure strategy to winning in this league

        • Rose

          Well look at the Celtics. They had a pretty dominant team the past few years and won once and nothing since…

        • ANSKY

          Lebron did not ruin the Knicks. Isaiah Thomas and the Dolans say hi.

    • Hello9

      If this trade had anything to do with Lebron, somebody gave Cashman a lobotomy in the recent past.

      No credible GM would have based anything off that.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      hypothetical: tampa gets lee, wins WS. Lee resigns with rays,

      That: not gonna happen.

      Odds of the Rays resigning Cliff Lee: -1000%

    • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

      Another hypothetical: Tampa gets Lee. The Yankees win the World Series anyway. Lee signs a 5 year $90 million deal with the Yankees in the off season. Jesus breaks camp with the Yankees as a C/DH. He wins ROY with a line of .300/.400/.600 and 40 HR. The Yankees proceed to recreate the dynasty.

      I like hypotheticals.

    • ROBTEN

      i hope you guys like WS rings, because we just bought insurance for the next few

      There are no guarantees in baseball. Does Lee make the Yankees better? Yes. Would Lee (in the offseason) + Montero make the Yankees even better than that? yes.

      I posted this in the wrong place above, but it’s important to this argument, so I hope it’s ok to summarize it again.

      The Yankees have not asked for a window to negotiate an extension. They believe that they can outbid anyone in the offseason for Lee anyway, so why not see if he likes New York and the Yankees like him before investing the money.

      http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/…..Yu0usc68YP

      Montero/Adams for three months of Lee and the assumption that you don’t need to negotiate a new contract now because you will simply outbid everyone in the offseason anyway (and could have thus saved Montero/Adams)?

      Wow.

      I’m sorry, that’s a bad deal.

  • http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-3/Mad-Max.jpg gxpanos

    FUCKING BOO, CASHMAN.

    What is this, a belated birthday gift for The Boss? I thought the Yankees were over this garbage.

    I guess RAB can leave a Gary Sanchez Watch up for like frickin’ five years and we can hope he becomes half the prospect The Jesus is…

  • Johan Iz My Brohan

    I am speechless right now. Not how I wanted to start my morning.

  • Jose the Satirist

    Welcome to the Yankees, Cliff. I’ll miss you Jesus. I really will.

  • EvoLuTioN aka Jobamania

    “The Mariners really liked pitcher David Phelps, who was recently promoted from Double- to Triple-A. But the Yanks refused to include Phelps or even a starter such as Ivan Nova or Hector Noesi. The Yanks offered a package, instead, that is no more than three prospects and possibly just Jesus Montero and David Adams.”

    At least some good news

    • pat

      A slight consolation. At least we didn’t get totally buttfucked.

      • RL

        Perhaps we did, but at least we’re getting a little kiss to go along with it!

  • mustang

    Well this makes up for yesterday i’m happy.
    I love being a Yankees fan.

  • pat

    I’m not gonna lie. I’ve been a loyal Cashman soldier, but unless there’s some information we don’t know about I fucking haaate this trade. We should have made this trade during the offseason while Montero’s value was still sky high. We would have had Lee for the whole year and prob would still have A-Viz.

    I’m even more fearful that if we make this trade and can’t find something suitable for Javy in return it pushes Hughes to the bullpen.

    • ROBTEN

      I’m even more fearful that if we make this trade and can’t find something suitable for Javy in return it pushes Hughes to the bullpen.

      Who thought at the beginning of the year that this scenario could play out:

      Joba to the eighth.
      Montero traded.
      Hughes to the…gulp…seventh.

      • Rose

        Rather have Hughes in the 8th and Joba in the 7th. But neither are going to happen thankfully.

    • Hello9

      +1

      Look at what the phillies got for him.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      That.

      If we were going to trade Montero for Lee, we could have done it in the winter (before he struggled in AAA and had even MORE value, if that’s possible) and not made the deal for Javy Vazquez.

      We’re picking the worst possible outcome here.

      Montero, Javy and no Lee >>>> Lee, no Montero, but Arodys Vizcaino >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lee and whatever prospect/player we get for Javy

      • ZZ

        Prospects with Montero’s track record don’t lose value in half a season.

        Scouts aren’t as fickle as fans. It’s not all about the numbers, but what they expect him to do.

      • Chris

        The Yankees tried to acquire Lee (and Halladay) during the offseason but were turned down. The Yankees then moved on to plan C for the rotation – Javy.

        • Chris

          Here’s the relevant quote:

          In the offseason, the Yankees tried to make a deal with Philadelphia and offered Montero as the key piece. But the Phillies decided to take the Mariners’ offer instead.

          From Sherman:
          http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....Vdd02uuU1I

    • http://leegrantphotography.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/madmax.jpg gxpanos

      It’s not that easy, though. Would the Phillies have traded Lee to the Yankees, even for Montero?

      I mean, they should’ve, but they may have thought they shouldn’t give him up to the team they just lost to in the WS.

      • Hello9

        Did we ever offer Montero? Do you think Amaro could have hung up the phone if we did?

        This move reeks of panic.

        • http://leegrantphotography.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/madmax.jpg gxpanos

          But what changed?Why would Cash trade Jesus now and not then? Because of a crappy 3/ in AAA? Also, we know Cash offered Montero for Halladay. Of course we don’t know what happened, but I think, knowing what we know now, if this deal was on the table with the Phils, Cashman would have done it.

          And I don’t agree that it’s panic; either a) poor philosophy/reasoning, or b) a final evaluation by Yankee people that Jesus will never stick at C.

        • Chris

          According to Joel Sherman, the Yankees offered Montero as part of a package to the Phillies for Lee and were turned down.

          http://www.nypost.com/p/sports…..Vdd02uuU1I

          • Hello9

            I’d love to see Phillies fans opinion of Amaro now.

    • ZZ

      The Yanks tried to trade Montero for Lee this offseason.

      Amaro refused to deal with the Yanks.

  • Johan Iz My Brohan

    Please don’t do it, go to the Twins Lee

    I don’t want to give up Jesus just yet!

  • Rose

    He adds that it’s entirely possible that the deal is just Montero and Adams for Lee.

    Even if it were just Montero for 3 months of Cliff Lee I wouldn’t understand it.

    Buster Olney seemed to focus on the fear of the Rays acquiring Cliff Lee and having a nasty rotation in the playoffs as almost the main reason the Yankees started throwing bad ideas around.

  • Sully

    I can’t read what’s been said above, but this talk about not being able to extend Lee. The only reason they are not requesting a window to negotiate is due to the team’s policy that it does not negotiate with free-agents-to-be during the season, and that is exactly what Lee is. To negotiate with Lee but to refuse to do so with Jeter or Rivera would be contradictory to a policy that clearly Cashman is a staunch proponent of. As KLaw typically says, one elite pitcher in the hand is better than two prospects in the bush; especially when that hand has a large wallet. I agree with that statement, and I’m a person that views DotF as the highlight of my day.

    • Hello9

      I’m fairly certain that Boras isn’t going to allow arguably the best pitcher in the league to not hit the open market this offseason, negotiating policy or not.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        Lee’s agent isn’t Boras, it’s Darek Braunecker.

        • pat

          Details details.

        • Hello9

          Where’s the RAB duncehat?

    • Will

      This situation is a little different, though. Jeter and Rivera are players they already have. The value of the trade would be substantially different if it were Cliff Lee for several seasons versus Cliff Lee for 3 months.

  • Sully

    “talk about not being able to extend Lee is misguided.”*

  • EvoLuTioN aka Jobamania

    If we resign lee after the season, we no longer lose a draft pick correct?

    • Rose

      Yeah why would we lose one?

    • Hello9

      We don’t have to give comp picks if we’re resigning him as opposed to getting him as an FA.

      comp picks are a bag of balls type consideration in this deal though

  • Dan

    Some of you prospect huggers are unreal

    • Hello9

      Prospect huggers? Enjoy the era of starbury and stevie franchise you home run derby infatuated twat.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        There’s no need for that kind of language.

        • Hello9

          Fair enough.

          I”m not a prospect hugger. I can live with trading Jesus. I have no problem with trading Adams.

          I think its idiotic to send both for a 4 month rental of pitcher.

          The other side of the token is of course the fans who don’t see anything but the names and the possibility of a great staff for one year and don’t realize how important team control of potentially great players (who are much more likely to be great than your avg player) is for forming a team, for flexibility in FA and for cogent organizational philosophy.

          If you want to see what happens to a team that ignores their ‘prospect huggers’ you only need to look across the city to Citi.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

            You: preaching.
            Me: the choir.

            (I just didn’t want you calling that other commenter a “twat” and misdirecting the conversation away from your good points.)

    • Rivera Venue Blues

      Prospect huggers. Good one.

    • http://leegrantphotography.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/madmax.jpg gxpanos

      Yeah, having team-controlled hitters with the potential to pop thirty bombs is SO overrated.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      I’m not a prospect hugger, I’m a strategic planning hugger.

      Trading prospects for great players is smart. Trading prospects for great players who are going to be free agents in a few months when you’re the Yankees and can and will outbid anyone… that is dumb.

      • ROBTEN

        Trading prospects for great players who are going to be free agents in a few months when you’re the Yankees and can and will outbid everyone and that’s basically your plan regardless of the trade because reports have you not looking to extend said free agent until after the season anyway…really dumb.

    • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

      I’m not sure if you knew this, but Cliff Lee was once a ~gasp~ prospect.

      Google it.

  • Yankeescribe

    Nothing wrong with this deal. The Yankees are loaded with catchers and Cano will be our starting second baseman for a long time

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      Montero and Lee in 2011 and beyond >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lee by himself starting today

      • Yankeescribe

        Montero may be a great player eventually but Romine may be a better fit for the Yankees

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Still irrelevant.

          Cliff Lee is a four month rental. That fact is more important than any other fact in this evaluation.

  • http://fmylife.com JobaJr

    I’m a little nervous that we haven’t heard anything about an extension. If we can’t extend him, it ain’t worth it.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      It ain’t worth it regardless.

      • Chris

        You’ve made it clear that that’s your opinion, but it’s not certain.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Nothing in life is certain.

          • http://fmylife.com JobaJr

            Honestly, how can you go against this move?

            The Yankees now have hands down, the best rotation in baseball. They have an aging team and are clearly in win now mode. We don’t know were this team will be in a few years…

            Our catching prospects are certainly in a surplus. Sanchez, Murphy, Romine… Losing Montero is definitely a big blow to the farm, but we’ll survive.

            If prospects is that big of a concern, Javy WILL be flipped before July 31st, so we can either use him to acquire prospects, or a bat for the bench, and so on…

            So yeah, just saying.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              Because it’s shortsighted, overkill, paranoid, and fearful.

  • pat

    Maybe we can trade Javy to the Mets for Mejia. Look Omar! Look how much we paid for Vasquez! Obey my dog!!

  • 12

    im iffy on this trade for cliffy

  • Dan

    First of all, all of you would be singing a different tune if Lee went to the Twins or Rangers and we would have to face them in the ALDS or ALCS. Imagine facing Lee in a best of five series? Do you think we’d stand a great chance of winning that series? I don’t.

    Secondly, I HIGHLY doubt any team will outbid the Yankees for him. The guy can help us win now and in the future.

    As much as we all have a hardon for Montero, he’s not helping the Yankees right now the way Lee will. To pass up on Lee because of what Montero MIGHT become is crazy, especially since we have such catching depth.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      First of all, all of you would be singing a different tune if Lee went to the Twins or Rangers and we would have to face them in the ALDS or ALCS. Imagine facing Lee in a best of five series? Do you think we’d stand a great chance of winning that series? I don’t.

      I do.

      Secondly, I HIGHLY doubt any team will outbid the Yankees for him. The guy can help us win now and in the future.

      All the more reason to wait for him to hit the market this November and buy him for nothing but cash.

      To pass up on Lee because of what Montero MIGHT become is crazy, especially since we have such catching depth.

      Not trading for Lee isn’t “passing on Lee”, it’s waiting for Lee. We can afford to wait, we’re in the catbird seat.

    • Hello9

      Whether anybody will outbid the Yanks for Lee is irrelevant. The idea that we can get him for the future would have happened REGARDLESS of this trade.

      You’re basically saying that you’re willing to trade these guys for the chance at having a better shot at beating a dominant one two punch in a series for just this year (by the way, Lee has had a grand total of two starts against AL teams in teh playoffs). And please tell me who is the other dominant starter that we couldn’t out hit enough to give CC or Andy a chance on the Twins or Rangers who have proven themselves?

      Additionally, you just don’t seem to understand the gradations in the prospect levels. Montero isn’t simply a prospect. He is a star prospect already at the highest level to the mlb at an obscenely young age at a premium position and who has impressed everywhere he’s gone. This isn’t a Casey Kelly/Hicks situation where you’re impressed about tools. Montero has proven everything and all that really waiting for him now that he’s hitting AAA is the show. Adams is a solid AA prospect who can be a contributor eventually.

      I understand your infatuation with Lee because he’s a hell of a pitcher and would be huge for this year. However, continuing to display your ignorance about Montero and Adams hurts your argument.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      As much as we all have a hardon for Montero, he’s not helping the Yankees right now the way Lee will. To pass up on Lee because of what Montero MIGHT become is crazy, especially since we have such catching depth.

      I wouldn’t disagree with you if it was 2008, or maybe even 2009, but the fact that it’s 2010 and he’s going to be an FA in four months makes me dislike this deal. A lot.

  • Alex S

    I blame Lebron

  • JoeC

    If its just Montero and Adams for Lee thats a pretty good deal. You can’t ecpect to get a Cy Young contender for nothing, even if its just a rental (which its not, its a mortal lock the Yankees resign him in the offseason). I LOVE Montero, but with Posada signed another year, Cervelli proving he’s at least a legit MLB backup, and with Romine and Sanchez meeting or exceeding expectations, he was expendable.

  • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

    What many people fail to understand is that there are essentialy two schools of thought here.

    1- People who favor the Yankees trading Jesus for Cliff Lee.
    2- People who favor having both in about 4 months.

    It’s not a matter of overvaluing prospects.

    • Johan Iz My Brohan

      The majority of us here are go to school #2 in my opinion, like me, that’s why I haven’t warmed up to this at all. I really don’t like this right now!

    • Rivera Venue Blues

      3-Prospect huggers.

      • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

        I must admit that I find that term amusing.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      Bingo.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      What many people fail to understand is that there are essentialy two schools of thought here.

      1- People who favor the Yankees trading Jesus for Cliff Lee.
      2- People who favor having both in about 4 months.

      It’s not a matter of overvaluing prospects.

      Repeated and bolded for emphasis.

      • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

        In addition, if the deal was set to be Romine+ for Lee, people would still be upset.

        • Hello9

          I would, but I wouldn’t be as livid.

          • http://www.retire21.org Mike R. – Retire 21

            Agreed

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              Thirded.

          • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

            Agreed. I’d be angry, not furious! ;)

    • Hello9

      Probably the most succinct explanation of the differences of views.

  • Dan

    People are getting worked up because of his potential. But there’s an equal chance Montero won’t live up to his hype. I’m sorry to see him go but Cliff Lee/CC Sabathia/AJ Burnett/Andy Pettitte/Phil Hughes >>>>>>>>> Sabathia/Burnett/Pettitte/Hughes/Vazquez

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      People are getting worked up because of his potential. But there’s an equal chance Montero won’t live up to his hype.

      That’s still not the point.

      Whatever Montero will or will not become is irrelevant. All that matters is the overwhelming likelihood that we can have Cliff Lee for nothing but cash this winter. We’re being needlessly impatient and giving up on highly valuable prospect for a four-month rental. Even if we don’t intend to keep that prospect because we’ve soured on him, or think he won’t have a place on this team in the future, we’re selling low on a blue chipper.

      I have no problem with us trading away a future prospect for a present stud. I do have a problem with trading a future prospect for a present stud who we can easily obtain in a much cheaper fashion buy just being patient.

      • http://leegrantphotography.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/madmax.jpg gxpanos

        Well, I’m against the deal too, but you haven’t talked about the increased chances of a WS title that occurs because of the 4 month rental.

        • Rose

          We won the World Series last year with less than we have now (Vazquez).

        • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

          Is the increase really that big, though?

          • http://leegrantphotography.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/madmax.jpg gxpanos

            Hey, you’re right. I hate the deal.

            But there IS an increase (how can anyone know how big?), and it’s disingenuous for us trade-haters not to at least mention that.

  • Vinny the Bull

    Get it done, Cash. This is Making a Statement at its finest.

    • Total Dominication

      Yeah, I’m an idiot.

  • Rose

    WHY?

    Can somebody help explain this a little better? The Yankees are currently the best team in baseball. They’re on a 6 game winning streak (won 7 of last 8) and throughout most of the year battled many injuries, inconsistencies, etc. Still the best team in baseball right now. And they’re perfectly content and anxious about tossing out their #1 prospect and another good prospect for 3 months of a player in a position they don’t need AND where the player at the position they don’t need is readily available after those 3 months anyway where we could actually use him and not give up our #1 prospect and other good prospect(s).

    Why? What’s the point? Anybody have any logical reasons? Keep Tampa from getting him (as Olney focussed on)?

    And how do you afford new deals for Lee, Jeter, Rivera, etc along with anything else you may need in the offseason anyway?

    • Chris

      Why? What’s the point? Anybody have any logical reasons? Keep Tampa from getting him (as Olney focussed on)?

      Lee has been worth 4 wins so far this season in 13 starts. He’ll probably get about that during the remainder of the season, so you’re looking at about 4 extra wins. Javy has been about a 4 win player in his career (worse this year mostly because of his slow start). Swapping those two gives an extra 2 wins in the second half. Not a huge boost, but it still could be significant with Boston and Tampa being in the same division.

      The bigger piece, I think, is the playoffs. The division series is basically a crap shoot since it’s best of 5. Having CC and Lee start 4 of those 5 games would be a huge advantage. You’d have a similar scenario in the LCS and WS, where you could start CC and Lee 5 times in a seven game series. With Hughes, Joba and Mo in the pen for the post season, that’s a stacked pitching staff. Add in the Yankees offense, and they’re now the far and away favorite to win the WS (as opposed to being slight favorites).

      As for losing Montero, you have to give up talent to get Lee. They offered Montero for Halladay and Lee in the offseason, so I don’t see why their thinking would have changed since then.

      And how do you afford new deals for Lee, Jeter, Rivera, etc along with anything else you may need in the offseason anyway?

      This one’s easy. There’s a big building in the Bronx that basically prints money. It’s called Yankee Stadium. I have no concerns about whether they will be able to afford all of those players. Especially since Jeter and Mo will likely not get significant raises over their current salaries (just more years).

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        As for losing Montero, you have to give up talent to get Lee.

        No, you don’t. That’s the entire point of why we object to this trade.

        You don’t have to give up talent to get Lee. He’ll be a free agent in 4 months.

        • Chris

          Conveniently, that would be right after the World Series.

        • andrew

          This assumes that nobody else trades for him and signs him to an extension though…

    • rek4gehrig

      Because the Twins and Rays have both offered very good packages for Lee.

      Do you wanna deal with Liraino, Lee and Scott Baker in a first round playoff series with the Twins?

      Or a rotation of Price, Shields, Lee, Niemann and Garza in the 2nd half for Tampa?

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        Do you wanna deal with Liraino, Lee and Scott Baker in a first round playoff series with the Twins?

        Yes.

        Whether we win or lose, that scenario is good for us long term.

  • http://leegrantphotography.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/madmax.jpg gxpanos

    Ugh. At least the Yanks have a better shot at winning tonight.

  • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

    I’ve been thinking about this for a few hours and I am still so insanely conflicted. That is all.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      Of course; we’re all conflicted. Lee being added to the Yankees makes them incredibly tough, but this process is something of which we’re not fans.

      • YankeesJunkie

        To get an elite player, the trade is going to hurt which is said by people much smarter than me. T

    • Tom Zig

      Samesies

  • ZZ

    No one should be surprised here.

    This is a long time coming.

    The Yankees have been trying to get a hold of first Halladay and then Lee with Montero as the centerpiece for a year now.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      I’m not surprised, I’m saddened at our impatience and paranoia.

  • slappy white

    while I agree that JESUS is a high price to pay< maybe it means the Yankees brass has seen something in him that makes them uneasy, ala Tabata…. I dont know, Im just wondering

  • YankeesJunkie

    I think there are a couple reasons that Cashman is willing to trade Montero for Lee.

    1. Lee gives the Yankees a much better shot at winning the WS. If either Tampa or the Twins get Lee they become a huge pain in a short series with Price/Lee and Liriano/Lee both series that the Yankees could easily lose because those pitchers are so good.

    2. Montero is a top 10 prospects, but he still does not have a position. Montero has not made the strides to be a catcher full time, the IF is full, so the logical choice is DH which hurts his trade value.

    3. I would love to see Montero and Lee both as Yankees next and for the years to come, but I’d rather see the Yankees win the WS this year than miss it because the Yanks got beat by two top pitchers in a short series.

    • Hello9

      1. It’d be nice if we could see an estimate of what that increased probability is. If the acquisition of lee means we’re going from a 40-75% chance of winning the WS then that’s pretty impressive. If, like I think, with all the variability in the playoffs we’re going from like 20-30% then not so much.

      2. He’s 20 years old and is at AAA. He’s just now focusing on catcher. He has tons of time to become a passable catcher/OF. If his bat stays the way it has it also becomes irrelevant. A miggy bat on a poor OF or on a DH has tons of value. Do you really want to give a Miggy type bat away because it might be blocked at the DH position by a aging an declining Tex?

      3. So you’d take 1 WS this year over Montero + a fair chance at the WS? In reality its even closer than that as the WS isn’t guaranteed even with Lee.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        All of that.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      1. Lee gives the Yankees a much better shot at winning the WS. If either Tampa or the Twins get Lee they become a huge pain in a short series with Price/Lee and Liriano/Lee both series that the Yankees could easily lose because those pitchers are so good.

      Doing something only because your competition might do it–or to attempt to compensate for it–is bad business. The Yankees shouldn’t be sacrificing a part of the future because two teams MIGHT trade for Lee.

      2. Montero is a top 10 prospects, but he still does not have a position. Montero has not made the strides to be a catcher full time, the IF is full, so the logical choice is DH which hurts his trade value.

      Trade value, shmrade value. Even as a DH, Montero projects to be a 3.0 WAR player. Only two full time DHs reached that last year, and that’s if we sober up his projection:

      http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010.....tero-15559

      3. I would love to see Montero and Lee both as Yankees next and for the years to come, but I’d rather see the Yankees win the WS this year than miss it because the Yanks got beat by two top pitchers in a short series.

      The Yankees already have a very good shot at winning the World Series. They can be patient and have a super awesome chance at winning more WS titles in the future with a stud pitcher and a stud hitting prospect if they’re just patient.

    • ROBTEN

      1. Lee gives the Yankees a much better shot at winning the WS. If either Tampa or the Twins get Lee they become a huge pain in a short series with Price/Lee and Liriano/Lee both series that the Yankees could easily lose because those pitchers are so good.

      True, but the Yankees could just as easily win in both scenarios, too. It’s the inherent nature of a short series that an “underdog”–and I’m still not convinced that the Yankees would be underdogs in either case–can win. So, being able to throw CC and Lee in a short series helps, but similarly doesn’t guarantee anything. Anyone can have a bad start.

      Further, both teams would be hurt going forward because of what they would need to acquire Lee.

      2. Montero is a top 10 prospects, but he still does not have a position. Montero has not made the strides to be a catcher full time, the IF is full, so the logical choice is DH which hurts his trade value.

      Montero’s status was certainly helped by being a catcher, but what made him a top 10 was his bat. As others have said, regardless if he plays a bad C or OF or 3B, you’d find a way to get his bat into the lineup.

      3. I would love to see Montero and Lee both as Yankees next and for the years to come, but I’d rather see the Yankees win the WS this year than miss it because the Yanks got beat by two top pitchers in a short series.

      Again, Lee helps, but still doesn’t guarantee anything. Making deals because of fear of what someone else might do is not conductive to running a successful franchise. It means making emotional, short-term decisions over practical–and sometimes painful–long term thinking.

      Before the trade the Yankees had the best record in baseball, the top offense and a top 5 pitching staff. How much better does this make them than keeping Montero and signing Lee in the off-season?

  • Total Dominication

    Fuck.

  • http://uclabruins.playitusa.com/ Luca10

    Hate this trade. Give up Montero’s bat for a three month rental (even of Cliff Lee) is just absurd.

    • rek4gehrig

      So you would rather Lee went to the Twins or Rays.

      Note that the Twins and Rays have both offered very good packages for Lee.

      Do you wanna deal with Liraino, Lee and Scott Baker in a first round playoff series with the Twins?

      Or a rotation of Price, Shields, Lee, Niemann and Garza in the 2nd half for Tampa?

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        So you would rather Lee went to the Twins or Rays.

        Abso-fuckin-lutely.

        Because one of two things would happen in that scenario:

        1.) Lee goes to the Twins or Rays, weakening their farm system, and proceeds to help them beat us and we don’t win the 2010 World Series. We then sign Lee in the offseason and have both Lee and Montero, with a weakened Twins/Rays franchise, and we win more World Series titles in 2011-2015.

        2.) Lee goes to the Twins or Rays, weakening their farm system, but we beat them anyway like we beat the Cliff Lee Phillies last year win the 2010 World Series. We then sign Lee in the offseason and have both Lee and Montero, with a weakened Twins/Rays franchise, and we win more World Series titles in 2011-2015.

        Either scenario is good for us.

        • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

          Your newsletter is something to which I’d like to subscribe.

        • mike c

          beating a lee/price/shields/garza rotations is a very difficult thing to do– much much harder than 2009 phillies

          • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

            Yep, but the Yankees can still do it. If they don’t? Well, they don’t. It happens; it’s baseball; only one team can win the WS every year. The Yankees may have one of the best shots to do so every year, but it doesn’t mean they will. As TSJC has said, the Yankees are a win now AND later team. This move would make sense for a win now team, think 2008 Brewers, but it doesn’t make sense for a team like the Yankees who are concerned with the short AND long term.

            In the short term, the Yankees are already in a good position to win the World Series. Obviously, it’s not guaranteed, but they’ve probably got the best shot of anyone. If they wait a few months and attempt to sign Lee while keeping their best prospect, they’re still set up to win in the long term.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              Furthermore:

              The 2009 Phillies offense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The 2010 Rays offense

          • ROBTEN

            Guess what’s still going to be difficult: beating a Price, Niemann, Garza rotation.

            There’s no guarantees in baseball, not even with Lee.

        • YankeesJunkie

          Cliff Lee beat the Yankees twice.

      • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

        If it means probably getting Lee in a few months and being able to keep the team’s best hitting prospect, yep. That’s a risk I’m willing to take.

  • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

    Hey, so, what happens if this trade goes down then the very unlikely happens: Lee walks.

    • Hello9

      Brian Cashman becomes GM of the mets in 2011.

    • jon

      the yankees get 2 draft picks from the team that signs him

      • Klemy

        Wouldn’t it be one from the team who signs him and one from the league?

    • AndrewYF

      The Yankees join the ranks of the Phillies in ‘incredibly dumb trades of the past 5 years’.

      They might even be there already.

    • http://leegrantphotography.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/madmax.jpg gxpanos

      I get in the fetal position.

  • Alex S

    I can’t imagine Red Sox blogs right now

    • Hello9

      If Theo offered Kelly, Reddick + for 4 months of Lee I guarantee you SOSH would be asking for his head.

      • AndrewYF

        And that package wouldn’t come close to the value of what the Yankees offered.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Montero >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kelly
          Adams >> Reddick

    • AndrewYF

      If I were a Red Sox fan, I’d be leaping with joy at the fact that the Yankees needlessly and foolishly wasted their resources, and would be looking forward to another decade of bloated, old Yankee teams.

      The Red Sox were going to have a very tough time competing this year anyway. This trade (and the philosophy that goes along with it) simply makes it a lot more likely that the Yankees disappear in 5 years, while the Red Sox remain strong.

      • Will

        Yes, the trading of two prospects certainly indicates this will happen.

    • Will

      I tried checking Bill Simmons’s Twitter for some schadenfreude, but no dice yet. I think he’ll be the next Red Sox employee to go on the DL.

    • Hello9
  • Hello9

    All right, this has destroyed my productivity so far today so I have to get off RAB.

    Either way, if this deal has been done (which I think is an awful, awful one) I will welcome Cliff Lee with open arms and will at least enjoy his (hopefully) dominance as we win the WS again this year.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      Yeah, that second part. I’ll be glad that the Yankees have Lee, but I’ll always be upset with the cost.

  • NYQ

    Why would the Yankees trade for a starting pitcher when that has been there strength all year…it’s just overkill. They need offense and relievers. So why would Cash do this if in recent years he has gone against trading top prospects for players they could get in free agency? The Yankees don’t need more starting pitching…just keep the farm system in tack.

    • Chris

      Why would the Yankees trade for a starting pitcher when that has been there strength all year…it’s just overkill.

      Because starting pitching wins.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        And we already have starting pitching, which is why NYQ rightly called the move “overkill”.

  • phughesisgod(Save Jesus!)

    The only way I like this trade is if the Yankees can turn around and deal Vazquez to Seattle in return for re-acquires Jesus Montero. Otherwise, way to totally shun a philosophy that has worked for a while, Cash. You have failed me!

  • AndrewYF

    Maybe I can just pretend that Montero signed with the Mariners for less money back in 2006, just like Felix did…and the Yankees got Cliff Lee for David Adams and some random guy.

  • Rick in Boston

    I’m torn about it. Maybe Cashman knows something that we don’t and is wanting to sell high. On the other hand, Montero’s the best hitting prospect the Yankees have had in the RAB era and we’ve followed his rise.

    But, when it comes down to it, I’ll happily cheer Cliff Lee as he helps the Yankees towards a second consecutive title. And I’ll cheer on Montero from afar.

  • http://twitter.com/j_sprouse2213 (The Real) James

    CC Sabathia – Cliff Lee – Andy Pettitte – AJ Burnett – Phil Hughes.

    The End.

    • Ellis

      If we could just wait a few more months, we can have that in 2011 and have Montero for years to come.

    • AndrewYF

      Any rotation that doesn’t include Josh Beckett, the gutsiest, clutchiest pitcher who ever clutched, isn’t good enough to win.

      • Klemy

        hahaha. TCWA. Good show sir!

  • JM

    Is this official yet? Are the terms agreed to? Whats happening with Lee today with his start?

  • yankwin

    I have just been sitting back and observing so far but why not throw in my 2 cents. Altough I think the move is unnecessary. There seems to be a gross overreaction to the deal. I like Jesus as much as the next guy but this is Cliff Lee for 2 prospects in no way does this deal hurt this team even a little. IMO people get way to attached to unproven kids and way overreact.

  • NYQ

    Now what happens to Javy?

    • http://twitter.com/j_sprouse2213 (The Real) James

      have to believe Javy is trade chip now. and a fairly large one. He now becomes the best trade option for teams out there…when you take into account the fact he is on a 1yr deal.

      A lot of NL teams will be dying to get their hands on Javy…maybe some AL teams too.

      • YankeesJunkie

        I can’t see Javy being traded inside the AL unless the offer is just too good.

  • http://fmylife.com JobaJr

    One FINAL question:

    Is it definite Lee is pitching for the Yankees tonight assuming they get it done in time?

    I got work and don’t want to miss it.

    • Apollo22237

      He won’t pitch for the Yanks tonight, and Joel Sherman said that the two teams would have a “Gentlemen’s agreement” to not pitch Cliff Lee for the rest of the series.

      • http://fmylife.com JobaJr

        Very funny.

        • theyankeewarrior

          No, that’s serious

  • http://edenbaum2663@yahoo.com aa yankees

    Can’t believe all you Yankee fans that don’t LOVE this trade. Jesus Montero ? Yea, the next Johnny Bench.hahahaha. Yea, Lee is 31. OMG, an old man. hahahaha.

    • Klemy

      I can’t even tell which side of the argument you’re one with the amount of sarcasm and laughter in that post.

  • ZZ

    The amount the Yankees value Montero seems to be very different than the perceived value towards winning “many” WS in the future that is being discussed on here.

    You have to look at this through a Yankee mindset, particularly how much money the Yankee franchise brings in from WS victories. Also, look at the team as currently constructed. And finally, the positional uncertainty of Montero and the need to DH Alex, Tex, Jeter in the future.

    The Yankees have never and will never operate under some sort of fangraphs total WAR value in terms of the upgrade from Javy to Lee for example.

    The Yankees will always have the most valuable asset in the game.

    Money.

    The won’t miss a beat trading Montero, especially when the return is Cliff Lee.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      The Yankees will always have the most valuable asset in the game.

      Money.

      And they should be patient and use that advantage while keeping another valuable asset: the best player in their minor league system whose floor is an average ML hitter, whose probability is an above average ML hitter, and whose ceiling is an offensive superstar.

      • ZZ

        Don’t lose sight of the financial aspect of winning a WS.

        The Yankees pulled in a little more than $70 million last year just on ticket sales during their WS run.

        That is just a slice of the financial pie of winning a WS.

        • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

          And they could do that this year again without the help of Lee and still keep rolling out WS titles with Lee AND Montero in years to come.

          • ZZ

            Yes, but Lee greatly enhances their chances of doing it this year.

            The benefit of winning the 2010 WS is enormous to the Yankees right now.

            Passing on Lee and the opportunity to greatly enhance winning the WS and all that comes along with it by betting on Montero (a player with no clear position) to be key cog in future WS victories is an extremely risky proposition for a team like the Yankees.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              Passing on Lee and the opportunity to greatly enhance winning the WS and all that comes along with it by betting on Montero (a player with no clear position) to be key cog in future WS victories is an extremely risky proposition for a team like the Yankees.

              A.) Not trading for Cliff Lee is not equivalent to passing on Lee. We still intend to add him this winter. It’s simply adding him a little later than “immediately”, that’s all.

              B.) Refusing to trade Montero for Lee is not the same as betting on Montero being a key cog in future WS victories. You can trade Montero to improve our club if you don’t want him here, but do it in a way that makes a larger impact than trading him for a four month rental of an impending free agent.

              • ZZ

                It is not about not wanting Montero here.

                It is all about Cliff Lee and it is all about this year.

                I am talking about passing on acquiring Lee for the next 4 months is risky.

                This is not a panic move or a scared move.

                This is a well calculated move that Cashman has been trying to pull off for a year now.

                It is very easy for people on a blog to blast this move when you don’t have the numbers if front of you for how a WS victory in 2010 will benefit this franchise.

                The Yankees will be fine in the long run. They have money, a great parent club, and a farm system that gets better every year.

                • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

                  This is a well calculated move that Cashman has been trying to pull off for a year now.

                  And you know this how?

                  I don’t think it’s a panic move or a scared move either – and yes, I think the people who are clearly 1000000% against this are trying to make it seem that way – because that’s not how Cashman works.

                  But you act like you have some sort of insider information and I don’t think you do.

                  • ZZ

                    I have said on this board several times that Montero and Joba have been offered in trades over the past year.

                    I said he was on the table for Halladay and that was confirmed.

                    I also said he was offered for Lee this past offseason and that was confirmed by Sherman today.

            • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

              Yes, but Lee greatly enhances their chances of doing it this year.

              Does it really? I’d say their chances are pretty good right now and nothing can increase them all that greatly.

              Passing on Lee and the opportunity to greatly enhance winning the WS and all that comes along with it by betting on Montero (a player with no clear position) to be key cog in future WS victories is an extremely risky proposition for a team like the Yankees.

              It’s not passing on Lee; it’s waiting for him. I’m not anti-getting Cliff Lee. I’m anti-getting Cliff Lee NOW.

              Because of what you said above, the money, I don’t think it’s a risky proposition for the Yankees at all. If the Yankees were like the ’08 Brewers (/broken record’d), then, yeah, sure do it. They’re likely not going to be championship contenders for the next five years or so. But, the Yankees are about short AND long term winning. A strategy of patience could allow them to do both.

  • JoeC

    Ok, Now I just want to know Deal or No Deal. If they drag this out until the 930 pregame show I’ll be pissed.

    • YankeesJunkie

      Romine playing so well this year is what I believe a major contributing factor to Montero being traded. The another one is the Yankees core of aging players in Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera, Posada, and Rodriguez.

      • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

        So, with an aging core of players, the Yankees should trade their best young player? Does not compute.

  • Ellis

    Let’s just go all out and sign Brandon Duckworth.

  • AndrewYF

    Time to trade Hughes for Prince Fielder.

    Hey, after all, the Yankees have no set DH, and Prince Fielder is a Proven Commodity. Who knows what Phil Hughes can offer the Yankees, have you seen his last 5 starts? It’s more likely that Hughes burns out this year than Fielder hits the skids. Trading for Prince Fielder makes the Yankees a better team Right Now. All you prospect-huggers need to get a grip, I only care about the team in front of me, not some mythical team three years from now. Sorry, stats nerds, this is how real baseball works.

  • NYQ

    So the Yankees now have 9 players in the All-Star Game.

    • AndrewYF

      He should still represent the Mariners. That’s where he did all his work.

      • Klemy

        Screw them. The price tag attached to him dictates that he wears a Yankee hat!

  • Riddle

    I guess this may put an end to the Montero Watch this year…bummer…

  • YankeesJunkie

    Another factor in the deal, assuming the Yankees sign Lee after the season.

    Lee+1st round prospect for Montero and Adams.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      So this magical first round pick comes from where?

      • YankeesJunkie

        If the Yankees sign Lee in the off season as planned they keep their first round pick rather than lose it. If the Yankees don’t sign Lee they get a first round pick and a first round supplemental pick.

        • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

          Oh. Right. I’m an idiot.

          But, still, there’s a way to keep a first round pick, not give up Montero, a first round talent.

          • YankeesJunkie

            Agreed, just throwing it out there.

          • Mike HC

            Why are you so sure Montero is going to pan out so well. Is it just based on his minor league numbers? Have you seen him play a large enough amount of times that you think he will translate to the Majors? Why do you personally think Monero is going to turn into one of the best hitters in baseball for the next 7-8 years or so? Because as of this second, his triple slash in AAA is .253/.331/.408

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              Because as of this second, his triple slash in AAA is .253/.331/.408

              That’d be pretty meh… if he was 24.

              He’s 20.

              • Rose

                Exactly.

              • Mike HC

                So are you saying that is a good line for a 20 year old in AAA?

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

                  I’m saying being in AAA as a 20 year old is amazing in and of itself.

                • Mike HC

                  His career minor league slg % is .486. And other than last year, in 2007, 2008 and this year, he has slugged under .500, this year far under.

                  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

                    I’d be impressed with a 16 year old kid going to Harvard and getting a C- average.

                    Because he’s a 16 year old kid holding his own in Harvard.

                  • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

                    His IsoP is .177. That’s good.

                    His K% is also nice at just below 15%.

                    An .059 IsoD isn’t super, but it’s solid, and his walk rate is about 8%.

                    Those are good numbers. I’ll take them from a catcher, and from a guy who’s been young in every league in which he’s played.

                    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

                      The catcher part doesn’t even matter. I’ll take Montero’s bat over pretty much any other bat in the minors. It’s legit.

                    • Mike HC

                      Except, using all the same scouting reports that you used to come to the conclusion he is great hitter, he is not a catcher. He is a DH. So as a DH, the Yanks could sign a guy in free agency every year to reasonably mimic his production.

                    • Mike HC

                      I guess I just see him as replaceable for a team like the Yanks.

                    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

                      Even if he’s replaceable, you’re still selling low on him.

                    • Mike HC

                      But realistically, what could we have actually gotten for Montero. I don’t see teams willingly trading their top young Aces for one top hitting prospect. I just don’t see that.

                      I do see teams trading their top hitting prospect for one year of a Cy Young type pitcher around 30 though. I just see that as the market price.

              • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

                He’s not a man. He’s 20.

            • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

              Why are you so sure Montero is going to pan out so well.

              I’m not, and I’ve never said he’s a sure thing. But I’m willing to take the risk because the Yankees can afford to.

              Is it just based on his minor league numbers? Have you seen him play a large enough amount of times that you think he will translate to the Majors?

              Numbers and scouting reports; it’s impossible for me to travel and see him play. And, even if I did, I’m not well trained enough to know exactly how he’ll do. Sure, I can tell if a guy’s really good or really bad, but my eye isn’t that good to catch the nuances and what not.

              Why do you personally think Monero is going to turn into one of the best hitters in baseball for the next 7-8 years or so?

              I don’t think he necessarily will but he has the chance to do so. If the Yankees can hold onto him AND get Cliff Lee, that’s just awesomeness. They can do that by exercising patience.

              Because as of this second, his triple slash in AAA is .253/.331/.408

              Nope, not that good. But, he’s also incredibly young for the league (one of the, if not THE youngest player in the IL, right?). I have faith, based on what he’s done at other levels, that he can improve. Even if he has to spend part of next year seasoning himself in AAA, so be it. A little extra developmental time never hurt anyone.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

                I’m not, and I’ve never said he’s a sure thing. But I’m willing to take the risk because the Yankees can afford to.

                That.

              • Mike HC

                thanks for the answer by the way. I definitely see what you are saying. Just wanted to see your take on the actual player.

  • Andrew Brotherton

    I don’t think the Yankees would trade for Werth, I think it would be Vazquez for prospects from the Phillies. I think along the lines of Singleton, Cosart, and Gillies. Prospects to replace the value of Montero.

  • J

    This trade wasn’t about the regular season, but the postseason. I don’t really feel comfortable going into the postseason with our rotation. CC and Andy are great, but needing to start Vazquez and Burnett would really hurt our WS chances.
    People are too focused on losing Montero, which sucks. But having two of the best five pitchers in baseball makes us the runaway favorites for the WS. And thats before we flip Javy for a bat. Six years of Montero for four months of Lee? If those four months include a WS championship, I’d do that in a heartbeat.

    • C-Mac

      Word up. Cash money just went all in for the WS. It’s awesome

    • ROBTEN

      Six years of Montero for four months of Lee? If those four months include a WS championship, I’d do that in a heartbeat.

      Ok, then let’s just go all out:

      Romine + Banuelos for Werth
      Bentances + Melancon + Laird for Dunn
      Melky + Kennedy for Santana

      Cash, get it done!

    • Klemy

      “Six years of Montero for four months of Lee? If those four months include a WS championship, I’d do that in a heartbeat.”

      Not I, sir.

  • J

    As for trading Javy for a bat, to me thats stupid. The only position we really need to upgrade is DH. Theres are easier way to do that, Carlos Delgado, even platooning Thames/Miranda. I’d be more comfortable trading him for prospects. If we can get Singleton and Cosart for him, I’d be ecstatic.

    • http://www.yankeenumbers.com Mr. Sparkle

      Are you kidding? Carlos Delgado? He’s pretty much washed up. Add to that the fact that he hasn’t faced live pitching since last season. By the time he was ready to at the very least step up to the plate in a game, it would be September.

      If the Yanks were to acquire Werth for Javy and have already secured Cliff Lee, I’d go for it. The offense has been awful for about a month. Sticking Werth in the middle of the lineup should be a boost…especially if this is the best we’re going to get from Granderson and Posada.

      I wouldn’t give up Javy unless they secure another starter though. Keep in mind the innings limit on Hughes, so they’re losing him by late August. Also, Burnett is too inconsistent to count on. If they give up Javy without a replacement, that leaves them with two reliable starters and three question marks.

  • craig

    Via Ken rosenthal twitter zachmcallister in deal as well

  • Poppycock

    Isn’t it fun to play the season knowing there’s a small chance we actually MAY NOT WIN THE WORLD SERIES!?!?!?!

    I say man up, and play with the F*ing team you have.

    Having an entire team of all-stars, HOFers, isn’t baseball, Suzyn.

    Sign Lee in the offseason — he ain’t signing anywhere w/o the opp to have the Yanks raising his salary — and keep Jesus.

    • Big Juan

      Yes because giving your team the best chance to win a World Series is clearly not a GM’s goal. You’re right. Maybe the Yankees should donate Cano or Sabathia to a less fortunate team.

      I understand not wanting to give up Montero — it’s disappointing. But this mindset is dumbfounding to me.

      • Poppycock

        gluttony is dumbfounding to me

        • http://www.yankeenumbers.com Mr. Sparkle

          Did they keep score when you played little league? Didn’t think so. Was it one of those leagues where “everyone wins” and gets only a “participation award,” no championship trophies? Well, major league baseball doesn’t quite work that way.

          • Poppycock

            Let’s back off the nastiness a little, perhaps?

            I don’t give an F about the other teams, money, what other teams’ fans think about the Yanks’ spending, etc.

            From this fan’s pt of view, I was saying, I like it when there’s actually a chance they can lose.

            • http://www.yankeenumbers.com Mr. Sparkle

              There really wasn’t anything nasty there, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. Maybe a little bit of “the truth hurts” is in play? I just can’t understand how you can claim to be a fan of a team, but don’t want to give them the best chance at winning.

              Also, it doesn’t make any sense. First of all, the Yanks are going to lose Hughes down the stretch. That’s self-imposed (so maybe that makes you happy?) Burnett is not reliable, neither is Javy. That leaves them with two starters with two big question marks. So how exactly would acquiring Cliff Lee leave them with an embarrassment of riches? The way I see it, it’s solidifying a third starter for the playoffs and playoff run. As it stands now, the Red Sox already have three reliable starters…as do the Rays. Why shouldn’t the Yankees try to establish the same?

              • Poppycock

                No, not nasty, you’re right…Condescending.

                (And I played 2 sports in college, but I don’t see why that’s relevant here. Nor do I feel the need to question if anyone I’m talking to here is a fan, or question their past.)

                Anyway, Lee’s here, do you honestly think there’s any chance they don’t repeat?

                As a fan just watching the games (nothing to do w/other teams, $, FO, whatever), I just like seeing a season that’s got some suspense.

    • http://www.yankeenumbers.com Mr. Sparkle

      Please spare everyone the “leveling the playing field” crap. It doesn’t work in government, capitalism or baseball. If the GM can improve his team by dealing for Lee, Oswalt, Werth AND anyone else, then he should go ahead and do it. The only way that’s going to happen is if he has the chips to get all those deals done. They can’t be bought mid-season…only traded for. That would mean the GM has done his job cultivating a robust farm system with enough prospects to pull off enough deadline deals to improve the team.

      If other contenders cannot match the Yankees offers, then either they haven’t done their jobs or they used their chips in other deals that may not have worked out as well. Too bad. You play with the rules you’re dealt, like it or not.

      Put it this way…what if Cashman were to hold a press conference tomorrow announcing that he wasn’t going to attempt to acquire anyone for the stretch run? Then announced the reason was because he thought it would only be “fair” to allow other teams to try to improve and that he’s willing to sacrifice his own team’s possibility of success so other teams can catch up. What if he announced, “This is in the best interest of baseball to try and make the playoff run and playoffs more enjoyable for everyone?”

      I’m sure by the end of the conference, his new title would be “former” Yankees GM.

  • http://fmylife.com JobaJr

    “But the fact that the Mariners liked Banuelos and McAllister could be a clue who a third person in a deal for Lee would be behind Montero and Adams.”

    -Joel Sherman.

    (…Begins to feel sick…)

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      If one of them gets thrown in, I’ll straight up murder someone’s ass.

      /Pritchard’d

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        /Pritchard’d

        /Vitchard’d

        • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

          Nobody makes me bleed my own blood. NOBODY!

          • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

            /different movie’d
            //Bo bait’d

  • pat

    Just don’t take my Romulo.

  • JM

    It just gets better and better!

  • http://leegrantphotography.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/madmax.jpg gxpanos

    Z-Mac isnt great, but giving him up makes this a MASSIVE overpay rather than just a big overpay.

    • Tampa Yankee

      Hopefully Seattle is throwing in another piece, maybe a RP like League who Mike brought up in his post.

      • http://fmylife.com JobaJr

        This.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Still not enough.

          The only way this makes any sense is if Lee makes a statement saying, “I don’t want to be a free agent, I hate the publicity. I intend to not file for free agency at all and instead sign a drastically below market deal with whatever team I play with at the conclusion of 2010. So whomever’s jersey is on my back on the final night of the season will get me for the next 5 years at 13M per.”

          • ROBTEN

            The only way this makes any sense is if Lee makes a statement signs a contract saying, “I don’t want to be a free agent, I hate the publicity. I intend to not file for free agency at all and instead sign a drastically below market deal with whatever team I play with at the conclusion of 2010. So whomever’s jersey is on my back on the final night of the season will get me for the next 5 years at 13M per.”

            FTFY

          • Rose

            There’s a better chance that Frank Sinatra comes back from the dead and sings “New York, New York” tonight, in Seattle.

            • Klemy

              Shit. How much are tickets to this event?!? lol

              • Rose

                JERRY: So, how was it?
                GEORGE: I was in there for two minutes. He didn’t do anything. (Imitating doctor) Touch this, feel that. Seventy-five bucks.
                JERRY: Well, it’s a first visit.
                GEORGE: What’s seventy-five bucks? What, am I seeing Sinatra in there?! Amd I being entertained? I don’t understand this. I’m only paying half.

    • Will

      Not Captain McAllister! I had years worth of Simpsons quotes to use!

      “Arr, matee, narry a warning light to be seen. Clear sailin’ ahead for our precious cargo.”
      “Uh, would that be the hot pants, sir?”
      “Aye, the hot pants.”

      • Rose

        lol.

        Mr. Burns: Oh, you all talk big. But who here has the guts to stop me! Mm-hm, very well. One last question. Have you ever seen the sun set at 3 p.m!
        Captain McAllister: Arr, once. When I was sailin’ round the artic…
        Mr. Burns: [interrupts] Shut up, you! Take one last look at the sun, Springfield!

    • pat

      My thoughts exactly. Just because he doesn’t have great value to our organization doesn’t mean he should be treated as a throw in. If we get League too I’ll be estatic.

  • Meat Loaf

    There goes my good mood.

  • phughesisgod(Save Jesus!)

    Wow. Brian Cashman, you fail miserably here. Please dont do this, come on. This isnt even an overpay, this is just an absolute robbery. What the Mariners are doing to us should be considered illegal. Please dont be an idiot, please dont. I beg of you!

  • Mac

    If they don’t get to sign him to a long term deal after giving up all of these young guys this is a mistake.

    • Jose the Satirist

      If the Yankees trade for Lee and then he becomes a free agent at the end of the year and goes somewhere else I will cry.

  • Philthy65

    bye bye montero watch….sanchez watch???

  • Rose

    Scene from RAB (The Movie – coming August 2010)

    [Rose and another anonymous man are on a bench]

    RAB [via text]: Update, Z-Mac is now in the deal that already includes Montero and Adams.
    Rose: But why is all of this happening?? Why isn’t the media asking this question?
    X: Well that’s the real question, isn’t it? Why? The how and the who is just scenery for the public. Cashman, Lee, Yankees, the Mariners. Keeps ‘em guessing like some kind of parlor game, prevents ‘em from asking the most important question, why? Why are they making this move so soon? Who benefited? Who has the power to cover it up? Who?

  • JoeC

    Montero, Adams, McAlister for Lee really isn’t an over pay. I thinks its pretty much in line with what it took for the Brewers to get CC and what the Astros paid to get Randy Johnson 10 years ago. The M’s needed two prospects the equivilent of 1st round picks, AND a prospect worth 15 starts from Lee. Otherwise it makes no sense to trade him

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      We’re not the Brewers or the Astros. They had no chance at all to ever get CC or Randy (respectively) to pitch for them other than paying for them dearly with prospects.

      We can buy shit. We shouldn’t trade for shit we can buy.

    • Chops

      Montero has such a bigger ceiling and projects as such a better player than LaPorta, its not even close.

  • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

    Since it won’t nest:

    Except, using all the same scouting reports that you used to come to the conclusion he is great hitter, he is not a catcher. He is a DH. So as a DH, the Yanks could sign a guy in free agency every year to reasonably mimic his production.

    Even if he can fake catcher, he’s incredibly valuable. And, like I linked earlier, even if he has to DH, he can still end up as being pretty valuable:

    http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010.....tero-15559

    • Mike HC

      Nice little article. Thanks for the link.

      They obviously don’t see him as a catcher, and again, you can’t cherry pick the things you like and don’t like out of the same scouting reports you claim to rely on. Every single one has said he is masquerading as a catcher, so what makes you personally think he even has the ability to “fake” being a Major League catcher?

      And looking at the most likely case the article laid out as him as a DH slg .500 (and that is really not most likely, that is a pretty good scenario) I don’t see why that would stop us from trading for Cliff Lee. I guess I value 4 month of Lee, plus the advantage of signing him to a long term deal, way more than you do.

  • Brad

    “Lee leads his league in ERA (2.34), WHIP (0.95), complete games (five), quality-start percentage (85.0), opponent on-base percentage (.240), opponent OPS (.572) and most starts of eight innings or more (nine of 13). He’s beaten five first-place teams (Yankees, Tigers, Rangers, Padres, Reds), plus the Angels. And then there’s that strikeout-walk ratio, currently resting at an incomprehensible 89-to-6. That 14.83 K/BB ratio wouldn’t be just the greatest in history if he keeps it up.” via ESPN http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=5364813

  • Jax

    I realize we’re losing a great prospect in this trade but thats all he is right now a PROSPECT. Doesn’t everyone realize how many “sure thing prospects” there have been? Sometimes they just dont pan out. No one truly knows how great Montero will be, he could even be a dud. Lee is a proven winner period. And to get proven talent you have to give up talent. I just dont understand how everyone can just safely assume Montero is gonna be the next Miguel Cabrera. He could be but we’re taking a sure thing. I think its a great move.

    • ROBTEN

      The point is:

      Montero, even as a prospect, is worth more than four months of Lee.

      If you add Adams and McAllister, it becomes a robbery.

      No one is saying that prospects are untouchable, just that a trade of a top MLB prospect should be smarter than this and get you more in return.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        All kinds of that.

      • Jax

        Elaborate on how a Prospect is worth more than a pitcher who has been lights out for the past few years? Barring injury he is likely to provide similar results int he years coming. They will resign him to a long term deal and if they dont they get a supplimental pick in this years stacked draft class. If they do sign him they wont lose their first round pick next year unless they sign another A. I just think that there are way more benefits than downfalls.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Elaborate on how a Prospect is worth more than a pitcher who has been lights out for the past few years?

          A prospect isn’t worth more than a pitcher who has been lights out for the past few years. A prospect, is, however, worth more than FOUR MONTHS OF a pitcher who has been lights out for the past few years.

          There’s a titanic difference. Cliff Lee is only under contract for four more months. After that, he’s free to be bought by anyone. Including us.

        • ROBTEN

          Elaborate on how a Prospect is worth more than a pitcher who has been lights out for the past few years?

          The issue is that these decisions are not made in a vacuum. Whether Lee is a great pitcher or not is only part of the equation. The question is whether this trade increases value in the short term to the point that it over-rides all decreases in value for the long term. We are talking about a team with the top offense, a top-5 pitching staff, and the best record in baseball trading for a player that they will not seek to extend during the regular season and could have had for (just) money after the season is over.

          My opinion right now is that this trade does not make sense from a long term outlook. To be clear, I am not opposed to trading prospects, just trading low on prospects that could get you more if you made it your mission to trade them. If Lee was cost controlled and under contract for several years, this is an entirely different question, but he’s not. He’s a free agent next year, regardless of whether we think Lee will “definitely” sign with the team. Plus, even if the Yankees are “guaranteed” to sign Lee because they can outbid everyone, they could have done it anyway in a few months and not given up Montero. Plus, knowing that the Yankees gave up their top hitting prospect in the trade, you’ve now given Lee even more leverage to drive up his cost to the Yankees.

          Barring injury he is likely to provide similar results int he years coming.

          Yes, and he would have done so next year too, when they could have just signed him as a free agent.

          They will resign him to a long term deal and if they dont they get a supplimental pick in this years stacked draft class.

          It’s a fairly safe bet to say that no one the Yankees draft will be a better prospect than Montero. Or, Montero >>>>>> a supplemental pick.

          If they do sign him they wont lose their first round pick next year unless they sign another A.

          Which could have been made up by offering arbitration to Javy. So many things could happen between now and then than signing or not signing Lee in regards to the draft–as well as the random nature of the draft to begin with–doesn’t make this a significant part of the deal for me.

  • JoeC

    Lee will resign with the Yankees in the offseason. Its a total lock. Have the Yankees EVER lost a FA on their team they WANTED to keep? Maybe Andy Pettite in 03, but he had elbow problems at the time and wanted to pitch at home. Theres no team in Arkansas.

  • Philthy65

    any chance they do this so when they WILL resign him this off season they dont lose a pick in the draft and now with lee they go out and trade javy for werth and get picks there??

  • Rose

    Well this deal for Seattle will certainly make up for their initial deal for Bedard anyway.

  • Donna L.

    If Montero is as special as you say he is, 20 isn’t all that young. Look what Alex Rodriguez, Miguel Cabrera, and Albert Pujols all did in the majors (never mind AAA) at 21. Do you really believe that Montero has any chance of accomplishing anything close to that in the majors by next year? If not, how can you say you believe that he’s an equivalent prospect? A *truly* great young player, a prospect at the level of the names I mentioned, should be dominating in the minor leagues, even at 20.

    How many of you have even seen him play?

    Your assumption that Cashman is acting from panic, paranoia, etc., or that he somehow doesn’t have access to every bit of the information that you self-appointed experts do, is absurd. To assume that acquiring Lee is just a rental, and that they would have just as good a chance of signing him long term if they waiting until the winter, is equally absurd. They obviously believe that they will have a better chance of signing him this winter if he’s already on the team (and, they hope, has already had the experience of winning a championship as a Yankee) than they will if some other team has had him for that time — especially if that other team (like the Rays or Twins) has succeeded with him, and has taken advantage of the exclusive window to negotiate with him once he becomes a free agent. How in the world can you assume that the Yankees’ chances are precisely identical in both cases, or that Cashman isn’t intelligent enough to recognize that they aren’t.

    And, yes, increasing the chance of winning the World Series again this year makes this worth it. That chance of winning now, as improved — even marginally — with the addition of Lee, is worth taking advantage of. And, I think, is worth far more than the possibility that Montero might help win one or more World Series in four or five years, when Jeter and Rivera and Posada and Pettite are all gone. It makes no sense to rely on an assumption that there will be such future opportunities. Who among you, when Rivera blew the chance of winning a championship in the 9th innning of the 7th game in 2001, that it would be another 8 years before he stood on the mound in the same position?

    • Mike HC

      Agree with all of this. Except that last part about 2001 and Mo. Not sure what you are implying there other than you can’t predict the future.

      Anyway, well done. Agree completely (almost)

      • Poopy Pants

        I agree. Mo saved that game and the Yankees won the series.

    • Rose

      Despite Montero’s setback in AAA (production wise), Baseball America still ranked Montero 5th overall in their Top Prospects category through the mid-season (released today actually).

      http://www.baseballamerica.com.....10314.html (SAFE)

      They don’t just rank players based on hear-say and whims. They study them individually (just like scouts, etc) and rank them accordingly.

      • ZZ

        They study them individually (just like scouts, etc) and rank them accordingly.

        ha. You don’t really believe this, do you?

        • Rose

          Well not as extensively, obviously. But they don’t just go around the conference table and list an order based on the amount of hands raised either lol

  • Donna L.

    I meant only that one should grab opportunities like this when one has them, and not assume that the same opportunity will be available again anytime soon. Whether it’s acquiring a pitcher like Cliff Lee, or having an opportunity to close out a World Series. I remember a lot of people, after 2001, saying things along the lines of “oh well, we’ll do it next year.” Next year took 8 years.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      One of the main reasons it took 8 years is because we didn’t nurture our farm system appropriately to replenish aging talent.

    • ROBTEN

      Next year took 8 years.

      Yes, because it’s hard to win the WS.

      Also, Lee guarantees nothing. It’s not like every other team will simply give up now.

    • Mike HC

      I don’t think anyone was voluntarily passing up that 2001 WS. That was a sickening loss. I’m sure Mo was trying as hard as possible. I’m just messing around a little.

      I agree with all of your posts here. You are on the money. Except for the idea that we somehow “didn’t grab the opportunity of 2001. We tried, ha.

  • Rose

    Don’t quote me on this one…but I heard Seattle will be including this guy in the deal along with Cliff…

    http://skeptisys.files.wordpre.....3large.jpg (SAFE – kinda)

  • Donna L.

    5th best prospect in an admittedly non-stellar group, and comments that “scouts are confident his bat will still be strong,” despite the fact that he “hasn’t improved this year,” doesn’t make him Miguel Cabrera. Or even Jason Heyward. Even the story you quote makes clear that there’s “a bit of a vacuum of talent in the minors. As one National League pro scout put it, ‘Everybody that I’ve talked to is disappointed with the position players in the minors right now, as a whole.’”

    • Rose

      First, please utilize the “Reply” button below when responding.

      Secondly, I beg to differ. 5th best prospect in all of baseball is prety stellar.

      Regardless of what one National League scout has said…that doesn’t represent everybody else’s feelings on the subject.

      And Montero is frowned upon being a position player so in some eyes, he doesn’t even fit that statement at all.

      • ROBTEN

        The problem is that your argument also goes the other way. The Mariners don’t trade Lee for a marginal prospect.

        The point is, Montero is one of the strongest prospects available and why the Mariners took the Yankees’ deal over the other offers.

        • Donna L.

          Sorry for not using the reply button — I’ve never posted here before.

          I’m not saying Montero isn’t good. I’m sure he is one of the strongest prospects available. But to hear the way some people are going into hysterics (and people accuse women of being over-emotional and irrational!), one would think that he’s the second coming of Willie Mays. He isn’t.

          Being good enough to be outstanding at the major league level at 20 or 21 may not be common, but quite a few have done it. And it seems unlikely that Montero is *that* good.

          See this:

          http://www.baseball-reference......hives/7127

          • Rose

            A simple query via Play Index – All-Stars age 21 or younger…through 2009, there’s only been 40 players to pull this trick (albeit some of them did it more than once).

            This quote is from the site you linked above. What is the “trick” they are talking about? Didn’t see it anywhere.

            • Rose

              Is it actual “All Stars” as in the All Star Game?

              If so, I don’t see how this is relevant.

            • Donna L.

              The “trick” is simply what the heading says — being an All Star at 21 or younger. The table came up in a quick Google search; I was looking for a list of players who succeeded in the majors at 20 or 21, and this was the closest I found in the few minutes I look.

              Of course, being an All Star at 20 or 21 is no guarantee of a Hall of Fame career, either. As much as I loved Butch Wynegar!

              • Donna L.

                few minutes I looked.

          • ROBTEN

            This will be my last post on this.

            The argument that is being made by people opposed to the deal is not that we are opposed to trading prospects or acquiring Cliff Lee.

            The argument is that Montero, ranked a top 5 prospect, is worth more than a four month rental of Lee, which is all this is regardless of whether or not they sign him to an extension because they could have signed him next year anyway without the cost in prospects.

            If it were announced that the Yankees had traded Montero for Johnson or Felix or Cain, many people here might have been surprised and initially upset, but I would expect most probably would be in favor of this kind of deal.

            The point is maximizing your value.

            Yes, the Yankees upgraded their rotation by dealing from a position of relative strength, but the arguments against the trade are that they didn’t use their strength to the maximum possible advantage. In other words, the argument is that the upgrade in short term value actually undercuts your position from a long term perspective. Not only is Montero no longer available to help your team directly, but you’ve also sold low on his value to the team as the central piece in a future trade with a more balanced long-term/short-term value than I believe the Lee trade to have.

            In other words, trading Montero is not the problem. Trading Montero for a four month rental of Lee is the problem.

            And, since this is my last post on this point, I will also say before someone says it–well, what if that “better” trade never comes along? If this is your motivation, then I refer back to my earlier post:

            http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....ent-960172

            • Donna L.

              “The argument is that Montero, ranked a top 5 prospect, is worth more than a four month rental of Lee, which is all this is regardless of whether or not they sign him to an extension because they could have signed him next year anyway without the cost in prospects.”

              The “could have signed him next year anyway part” is the precise assumption that I already pointed out is unfounded. You can’t assume that if they sign him after trading for him, they “could have signed him anyway.” The two situations are not the same. You’re making an a priori argument.

            • Mike HC

              To say we could trade Montero for literally the most valuable assets on a Major League baseball team, young Aces, is just wrong. It is the same as saying we should offer IPK and Melky for Halladay and get it done Cashman. It just does not work that way. The current market value for a top hitting prospect is about a half year rental of a Cy Youngish around 30 pitcher. That is the market.

              • Mike HC

                And he is ranked anywhere from 5-10 as minor leaguers go. It is not like he is a number one head and shoulders above everyone else type prospect with no flaws. He has flaws.

                • http://twitter.com/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

                  This whole deal is flawed. Paying for someone twice expensively is not ea good idea.

              • Chris

                I agree. Considering that the Phillies and Blue Jays have already turned down offers centered on Montero for Lee/Halladay, why is it assumed that the Yankees aren’t maximizing his trade value?

  • http://twitter.com/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

    Anyone absolutely hate this move? I LOVE Cliff Lee. I hate getting him now. Sorry but this move sucked when starting pitching isn’t a god damn need.

    I’m overreacting but damn. I don’t know why people think Romine is our future catcher, when he hits AAA he’ll be fucking traded too.

    • Poopy Pants

      They’ll just buy a catcher.

      • http://twitter.com/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

        Mauer is out of the market. VMart probably will be too. Who’s left?

    • Poppycock

      I hate it, and people here are saying i’m a socialist.

      what do our starting pichers have…40, 50 wins, already? (i know, wins = BS stat).

      I’d like to see them in the WS again; but would like it to be somewhat of a contest to win it…

      • For Lack of a More Creative Name… Alex

        Mike Fancessa? Is that you?
        I don’t understand the argument that the Yankees will be too good and that is somehow a bad thing.

        • Chris

          Exactly. There are reasons to dislike the deal. The idea that the Yankees will be “too good” is not one of them.

        • Poppycock

          Funny, ha! But I’ve been saying this here before Fatcessa got on-air ….

          It’s not an argument, though – just how I feel about watching the games at home.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvg7Empjfg Captain Jack

    Ms are backing off offer according to Joel Sherman’s twitter.

    • Doug

      if true, color me happy

  • Apollo22237

    “To repeat the #Yankees aren’t getting Cliff Lee, #Mariners concerned about David Adams ankle plus apparently another team has jumped in hard”

    We’ve been arguing all day for nothing haha.

  • http://twitter.com/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

    YESSSSSSS JESUS MIGHT BE SAVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Doug

    sherman tweet: “#Mariners have turned in a different direction and #Yankees do not believe they are in it now (more to come)”

  • For Lack of a More Creative Name… Alex

    Wow. I wonder what this other team is.

    • http://cid-e3a022289d65b5c0.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Assorted/foul.jpg Andy in NYC aka the Other Oofys

      Apparently it’s the Rangers.

  • http://Twitter.com/marcos_aguirre Marcos

    Oh please let the deal break apart! NOT MONTERO! Please save Teh Jesus! If we trade him at least make it for Felix who is young and fairly priced rather than to rent Cliff Lee for 3 months before he reaches free agency. I get the whole idea about taking Lee to block him from going to a playoff contender, but it’s not worth a huge part of your young future talent. Monteros bat is a given I think, even with his struggles in AAA at the beginning of the year. The guy is very likely the next Miggy Cabrera!

    If this goes down I’m going to start loosing a BIT of faith in Cash and the FO.

    /rant

  • Rick

    Trade is off… OMG

  • Poppycock

    Saved: Jesus!!!!

  • Philthy65

    Teh Jesus LIVESSS

  • dan

    yankees are making a huge mistake giving up zach mcallister in this trade? would rather give up dave phelps, hector noesi. Plus Noesi tested positive for steroids basically! Could have given up betances even, dude had tommy john surgery.With exception of betances both those guys are 24 or older and are not even in triple a. Lee is a free agent at end of year man!!!!. Rotation after this year would have been sabathia,when burnett loses it and pettitte retires,hughes at 2 in rotation, cliff lee at number three, could have had zach mcallister as number four starter vazquez fifth starter. Plus we spent all this time developing mcallister in the minor leagues to watch seattle reap his benefits. We don’t need lee to win it all this year. This is a wasted trade. It’s not only going to cost us prospects now but major prospects down the line like chris cabrera, bryan mitchell, and jose ramirez if we have to make a trade again!