Cashman on Pettitte and Pineda

2012 Season Preview: Speed Demons
Open Thread: 3/21 Camp Notes

A few days ago Brian Cashman talked to Ian O’Connor on ESPN Radio, mainly about Andy Pettitte and Michael Pineda. You can listen to the whole thing here (the Pineda bit starts at around five minutes). Cashman said that it’s “a great thing for him to experience right now” in regards to Pineda and the New York media scrutiny he’s faced this spring. He called Pineda’s missing velocity “a curiosity,” noting that he “has more velo in the tank.” The most interesting line, however, comes when Cashman discusses Pineda’s work habits this past off-season. “I bet, the way — you know, he showed up 20 pounds heavier than he was with Seattle at the same time last year. I betcha it’s the first time he picked up a ball and started working out, and he’s probably using — it doesn’t make it right, if it’s the case, but I can’t tell you it’s the case — but he’s probably using spring training to get himself in shape.” He then goes on to praise Pineda’s secondary stuff, saying that hitters are getting poor swings. “We have a really good pitcher as is right, and and he’ll be a great pitcher when that velo comes back.” Comme si, comme sa.

Update: I’ve been told, in certain and unfriendly terms, that the term “v-lo” is unacceptable. Velo it is, you authoritarians.

2012 Season Preview: Speed Demons
Open Thread: 3/21 Camp Notes
  • Mike Axisa

    Die v-lo die.

    • Zanath

      I never understood why velocity needed an abbreviation.

      • Jennifer Lopez

        I do.

    • Havok9120

      Mike is using his Imperial Editor-in-Chief powers to strike V-Lo from RAB posts, one post at a time.

  • Andrew GM

    What did he say about Pettitte?

    • Havok9120

      Something, something, can’t say no, something, something, True Yankee, something something, had the itch.

      Basically the same as everyone else.

      • Andrew GM


  • Please.

    How about just ‘velocity’?

    I mean, that is what this ‘v-lo’ stands for, right? It’s gotten to the point where I don’t actually know what ‘v-lo’ means. I assume it’s supposed to mean velocity.

    If that’s the case, how about…


    • Preston

      arm speed, arm strength, gas, velocity, quickness, rapidity, celerity, briskness… Anything but velo or v-lo. I don’t know where this came from, but it’s horrid.

    • Slugger27

      im fine with velo, just not v-lo. v-lo makes me think its 2 diff words… or a celebraty named lopez whose first name starts with a V.

    • Joe Pawlikowski

      Hey, it’s not me saying it. Cashman said it. Don’t kill the transcriber.

      • Mickey Mantle’s Outstanding Experience

        “has more [velocity] in the tank”

  • Nickel

    When I read, “…and he’s probably using-” followed by a dash, I thought to myself, “Using what? Did Cashman just admit on the air that Pineda was using steroids?”

    It’s been a long day and I’m tired.

    • MannyGeee


  • Brandon

    if he has more velocity in the tank, he’ll be an anomaly. no one loses 10 mph on his fastball and regains it all back. i think pineda’s 97-100 days are behind him. im only expecting 94-96 with maybe occasionally reaching 97 in the summer. now sure, thats kinda like CC, but CC can hit 98 and his secondary pitches are beyond deadly. lets wait till pineda shows off his secondary pitches against ML lineups before we get too carried away with how theyve looked against aaa – aaaa lineups. theres a reason those guys are still in the minors.

    • Manny’s BanWagon

      Unless you’re a psychic, how can you say his days of 97-100 are gone?

      The guy is 23 years old, has never had a major arm injury as far as I know and has been in spring training for all of 3 weeks.

      I think he just came into camp somewhat out of shape and probably didn’t throw much over the winter as Cashman stated.

      If he’s “only” hitting 93-94 on June 1st, I’ll admit there’s a problem but not on March 21st.

      • forensic

        He had a serious elbow injury in 2009.

        • The Guns of Navarone

          Serious? They shut him down for precautionary reasons. It required no surgery or rehab.

    • Tom

      I’m pretty sure his 100mph days are behind him since he’s never hit 100mph

      He hit 99 in 3 games last year, but generally topped out at 97-98. If he’s been topping out at 93-94 in Spring Training so far I don’t see how that is 10mph lost. Is their a hysteria multiplication factor of 2 or 3 that I’m not aware of?

      • MannyGeee

        oh, you didnt know? March is all about hysteria… and v-lo, as it turns out

        • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

          Wait I thought march was about madness.

    • Geo

      People were saying the same thing about guys like Verlander in the past. Makes no sense today, a couple of weeks into ST to say his days of 97-100 are over.

    • Havok9120

      I’ll miss those 100MPH days. Since, you know, they never happened. He sat around 96 with consistent 97s from what I’ve read. Last start he sat 92 with consistent 93s. His first start he was sitting 89-90. He never lost 10, and he’s been making progress each time out. Its not totally unreasonable to say he may have permanently lost a MPH or two but…Lord. Lets not increase his past performance just to fit the current narrative.

      As for your crack about AAA-AAAA lineups….you’re absolutely right. That’s why its nice we can look back at all last season to get numbers against MLB players.

    • The Guns of Navarone

      lets wait till pineda shows off his secondary pitches against ML lineups before we get too carried away with how theyve looked against aaa – aaaa lineups. theres a reason those guys are still in the minors.

      I guess you’re not aware of this, but Pineda did pitch in the majors last season and his slider (secondary pitch) was one of the best in all of baseball.

  • Gonzo

    I guess someone could be concerned that Pineda will be throwing in stressful/meaningful games without being 100% pitching form. I wonder if that could lead to injury.

    Just curious.

    • MannyGeee

      guaran-damn-tee you he shows up next March in shape…

  • Yanks4life

    I watched Verlander pitch two days ago and was sitting at 93 does that mean anything? No just like it doesn’t mean anything for Pineda!

    • Havok9120

      You can’t compare the two. Verlander is probably just pacing himself. There’s no way Pineda could have the maturity and control to have figured out how to do that so early in his career.

      Or something to that effect.

      • FIn

        Eh, I dont buy they are throwing the same velocity for different reasons. I think the reasons are the same, its too early in the year to air your arm out like that, it wouldnt feel natural or good. They need time to loosen up the arm and build strength so when they throw that hard, it feels right.
        I also think you are selling Pineda short. He seems to me to have a very high acumen for pitching, evidenced by his low walk rate for such a large, young, power pitcher. He also lived with his pitching coach in Seattle. I think its very possible the guy knows exactly what hes doing.

        • Havok9120

          Parody successful.

          I agree with everything you said there. I was just repeating what I’ve heard said by Angry Internet Men over the last week or two.

        • Bo Knows

          He was being sarcastic, Pineda has actually been following the “pace yourself” route since last year. I think the only reason why he was throwing the quoted “93-96” last year was because he wanted to make the team. This year he’s been devoted more towards refining (especially the change), than trying to impress someone.

          Long story short, Pineda has an insanely high Baseball IQ for someone his age, or any age for that matter.

  • FIn

    Heh, still talking about Pineda velocity. Guy hit 94 last game, seems like any concern should be gone with alot of 93s. Seems clear hes on pace to be throwing hard by the time the season starts. I dont understand what Cashmans obsession is with throwing the guy under the buss? He has to develop a third pitch or we made a mistake, he didnt work out during the offseason, he gained 20lbs, he doesnt have a gauranteed spot in the rotation. Its Cashman that has caused all this media crap. Its like Cashman has lost his internal governor. He managed media expectations so well, that poor Pineda has now has 3x the pressure than if Cash would have just shut the hell up.

    • Ted Nelson

      What are you talking about? Cashman is the one who traded his top prospect for him.

      He’s saying that if he doesn’t develop into a front end starter they made a mistake, paying Jesus and Noesi a complement. If Pineda did show up out of shape, how exactly is telling the truth throwing him under te bus? If you don’t want people talking about how out of shape you are… Don’t show up out of shape.

      • The Guns of Navarone

        Adding fuel to a topic that is already out of control throws his young pitcher under the bus. Plain and simple. Pineda admitted he was a measly (by my estimation) 10lbs overweight to start camp. Now Cashman says he’s 20lbs overweight. He also stated it’s “probably” the first time he’s picking up a baseball. So… is that the truth or is he speculating?

        If that’s not throwing Pineda under the bus, please explain to me what is. The media is practically foaming at the mouth to spin a negative story about this kid and Brian Cashman himself gave them more ammunition. A very stupid move.

        In my opinion, Cashman needs to shut the fuck up and do his job.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    Of course, that changeup does nothing to change how the rest of his arsenal is perceived, right?

    Sometimes we’ve got a bit of v-lo fever in the head here.

    • Havok9120

      Way too often. I imagine much of it is due to it being ST with a team with no real question marks.

  • Ted Nelson

    People have been saying velo for a long while…

    • Bo Knows

      but not v-lo, which is where the ridicule is coming from. Everyone who says it is using it ironically….except for possibly Marchand

      • Ted Nelson

        Several of the comments are directed at any sort of abbreviation, saying everyone should only say the full word. Those are more who I’m talking to.

  • Mister D

    Obie Pee.

  • RetroRob

    I just did a Google news search. The only time V-Lo pops up is if it’s in relation to Pineda. So if years from people are still referring to and writing the term “V-Lo,” we can say we were there at its birth.

    Hopefully that will not be Pineda’s legacy.

    • Havok9120

      That’s good stuff.

  • Midland TX

    I can understand “v-lo” in a tweet, where the writer is trying to conserve characters. Anywhere else, it’s pretty douchebaggerous.

    • RetroRob

      …but v-lo and velo are the same number of characters!

      It was started by Marchand, meaning you were right, it’s douchebaggerous.

  • Davor

    Pineda said Mariners asked him to completely shut down and rest this winter. That’s why he is out of shape and why he needs time to reach 95+.

    • DM

      I threw out that possibility a few days ago. He wasn’t on a Yankee off-season plan; an idea completely ignored here when assessing what shape he should’ve been in. This isn’t like Joba or Hughes if he was following Seattle instructions.

      • Suffocating D

        So why wasn’t he put on a program after we traded for him? That would be management’s fault, no?

        • DM

          I don’t know. But the Yankee M.O. is to be warm and fuzzy with new acquisitions — initially — since they might be overwhelmed already by coming to NY. I’m sure they just spoke with him here and there pre/post-physical — then told him when/where to report for ST. I doubt they would’ve instructed him to do anything different in between.

  • Crosetti32

    Velo? Give me a break. I sort of miss the days when the Boss would bitch slap Cashman and ban him from speaking to the media.

    • DM

      Then he’d fly to Mexico and sign Fernando Valenzuela out of retirement for $5mil without telling Cashman.