Report: No expanded instant replay in 2012

David Phelps & Spring Training Buzz
ST Game Thread: An Old Friend

The new Collective Bargaining Agreement has garnered lots of negative attention mostly due to spending restrictions on amateur players, but one of the great things it’s done is expand instant replay. In addition to homers (“boundary calls,” technically), the replay system will be expanded to include fair-or-foul calls, trapped calls, and fan interference. Unfortunately, it won’t happen in 2012.

According to the AP, expanded replay will not be instituted this year because MLB and the two unions (players and umpires) were unable to come to an agreement on an acceptable set of rules. The umpires want something in return for agreeing to replay — like improved benefits or pensions — and there is also concern about different camera angles at different parks. I’m amazed they rushed to get the new playoff system put in place but not expanded replay. If I had to pick one or the other for this season, I know which one I would pick, and it isn’t the one they chose.

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David Phelps & Spring Training Buzz
ST Game Thread: An Old Friend
  • Jerkface

    Umpires: Help in doing our job? Fuck that pay me

    • Havok9120

      To be fair, that IS the job of a union. Especially if “Expanded Replay” may take employment opportunities in the future (why, exactly, do we have 2 extra umps in the postseason?).

  • Nick

    “The umpires want something in return for agreeing to replay — like improved benefits or pensions”

    Yeah, and I’d like you to do your jobs somewhere around “acceptable” but we can’t always get what we want.

  • Knoxvillain

    I can understand both sides of the replay vs. no replay argument. However, these umpires have been fucking terrible for a few years now. I’m not sure if I’m just starting to notice it now, or it has just started.

    If the umpires didn’t suck ass, I wouldn’t mind. Something needs to be done.

    • Ed

      You’re noticing it more because there’s more cameras around the stadium now than there were in the pre-YES days, and you’re probably watching the games in HD now. You’re getting better angles on the replays, and HD makes it much more obvious exactly what happened on the really close plays. The replays are a lot more definitive than they used to be.

      Also, things like RAB Game Threads with lots of people complaining about calls as they happen probably make the bad calls stand out more in your mind, or make you notice bad calls that you missed.

  • nedro

    Heard last night MLB is “asking” pitching coaches to jog out to the mound, rather than walk, to preserve the “pace of the game”. Struck me as a little bit, well, fucking stupid. I’m sure they won’t be calling on fucking Beckett to take less than ten fucking minutes between pitches…

  • Klemy

    “I know which one I would pick, and it isn’t the one they chose.”

    Yeah, agree 100%.

    As far as umpries wanting more? Haha, replaced with robots. (Only partly kidding.)

  • Klemy

    “I know which one I would pick, and it isn’t the one they chose.”

    Yeah, agree 100%.

    As far as umpires wanting more? Haha, replaced with robots. (Only partly kidding.)

    • Klemy

      Double post. :(

      • Havok9120

        Whoa. We have smilies?

        WHY DID I NOT KNOW?!

  • Ed

    Hmmm… the new thing that results in more money for everyone got approved faster than the one that doesn’t. Big shocker there.

    On a more serious note, they already agreed to most of the new playoff rules during the CBA negotiations. The only significant holdup was working out the scheduling conflicts.

    The CBA negotiations didn’t include anything about replay other than an agreement that they wanted to expand it. It’s easy to say “let’s use more replays!”, but it’s not that simple. The big elephant everyone ignores in the issue is how to resolve the problem after you determine the wrong call was made. That foul ball was really fair… That diving catch was really just trapped after a bounce… ok, now that we know that, how do we decide where the baserunners end up? The umpires also have a point with the camera angles – if you’re going to require plays to be reviewed on replay, shouldn’t there be some minimum requirements for the camera angles provided?

    • CP

      The big elephant everyone ignores in the issue is how to resolve the problem after you determine the wrong call was made.

      No one is ignoring that. In fact, that has been the single biggest excuse used to hold off instant replay, and I think it’s pretty ridiculous as an excuse. Give the umps some guidelines and let them use their judgement. The cases where there are real questions are just a fraction of the cases where a call will be over turned.

      if you’re going to require plays to be reviewed on replay, shouldn’t there be some minimum requirements for the camera angles provided?

      No. Use what you have. If there aren’t enough angles to see a given play, then it doesn’t get overturned.

      No matter what system you have, it won’t be perfect. People need to stop worrying about being perfect and just go with ‘better than we have now.’

      • Ed

        No one is ignoring that. In fact, that has been the single biggest excuse used to hold off instant replay, and I think it’s pretty ridiculous as an excuse. Give the umps some guidelines and let them use their judgement.

        I have never once seen that addressed by any remotely mainstream source. It’s always presented as issue of following tradition or adapting to the times and using modern technology. The issue has always been either ignored, or written off as a minor detail to be worked out later.

        The cases where there are real questions are just a fraction of the cases where a call will be over turned.

        We’re specifically talking about adding replay for fair or foul calls and trap vs catch. The play proceeds completely differently depending on the call made. There’s no obvious answer to the problem in all but the most trivial cases. These plays are a small fraction of the overall game, but they’re the majority of what they’re intending to cover in the new instant replay plan.

        No. Use what you have. If there aren’t enough angles to see a given play, then it doesn’t get overturned.

        If you’re not going to make an effort to provide the views that the umpires want, replay is just a waste of time.

        No matter what system you have, it won’t be perfect. People need to stop worrying about being perfect and just go with ‘better than we have now.’

        Of course it’ll never be perfect, but a rushed, ill-thought out system can be worse than what we have now.

        • CP

          I have never once seen that addressed by any remotely mainstream source.

          At a minimum, I know they’ve talked about it on Mike & Mike when they bring the issue up with Selig or Torre.

          These plays are a small fraction of the overall game, but they’re the majority of what they’re intending to cover in the new instant replay plan.

          Not every play that is reviewed will have a question of how to locate the runners. Thus, you’re going to get things ‘right’ more often by using instant replay – even if the process is flawed.

          If you’re not going to make an effort to provide the views that the umpires want, replay is just a waste of time.

          I never said don’t make an effort to improve camera angles. Of course they should make an effort, but they shouldn’t hold things up just because there won’t be the same camera angles at every ballpark for every game.

          Of course it’ll never be perfect, but a rushed, ill-thought out system can be worse than what we have now.

          I disagree. Obviously, the worst case scenario for a system would be bad (i.e. video review of every single play, or fan voting on close plays), but a small group of people could relatively quickly develop a system that is better than today. If you review plays, you’re going to get more of them right. Some will still be wrong, but in a different way (maybe the runners aren’t at the right spot, but they wouldn’t be at the right spot if the original call isn’t reviewed).

  • Robinson Tilapia

    …..but we can’t wait to fuck up the amateur market and playoff system.

    • Havok9120

      Think of teh monies!

  • MattG

    I’m not in a hurry for replay, because in my imagination, I am certain it will lead to more arguments. If traps/catches were debatable, it would pretty much mandate that a manager must demand the umpires review any call that is close. I don’t care to watch that.

    I’d like instant replay, but I want a rule to accompany it that forbids arguing any calls covered by replay.

  • http://jukeofurl.wordpress.com Juke Early

    The question of camera angles and where runners wind up if a play/call is reversed, actually makes a convincing argument to NOT have replay. Except on maybe a disputed walk off type situation ending a game.

  • Chad Gaudin the Friendly Ghost

    Maybe I’m in the minority, but outside of balls and strikes which seems far more subjective than it should be I always thought that the umps do a pretty decent job considering what they have to accomplish.

    That said, it seems silly not to have replay, and even sillier for umps to ask for something in return for making the game more accurately called (isn’t that your job?).

  • Jamey

    Heaven forbid they make a change that actually improved the product.

    • velocitee

      Oh they did, expanded playoffs. ::roll eyes::

      • Havok9120

        Well….yes. Yes they did. No need for the eye roll.

        *runs away*