Yanks make the Pirates look good
ByTonight’s embarrassing 12-5 loss at the hands of the Pittsburgh Pirates took a turn for the worse approximately eight pitches into the game. Tom Gorzelanny had started the game off with a strike but then issued four straight balls to Melky Cabrera. Derek Jeter saw two more balls go by, and then, as any good hitter would do, he took a pitch until he saw a strike and then unleashed a bullet into right field on the next pitch.
If only.
Rather, Jeter swung at a 2-0 pitch and hit into an inning-changing double play. This would come to represent, for the Yankees at least, the drive of the game, but Jeter wouldn’t be taking home a prize from Chevy for it.
Nearly three hours later, when the game mercifully ended, the Yankees found themselves at the wrong end of a 12-5 drubbing by a team that hadn’t seen its offense explode as it did for weeks. This was truly one of the lower points in the season, and as Joe Girardi said during the post-game interviews, “The whole game bothered me. We stunk is the bottom line. We stunk.”
While the pitching was terrible — and we’ll get to that in a second — the more infuriating part of this game was the Yankee offense. The Yanks’ bottom third — Robinson Cano, Justin Christian and the pitcher’s spot — went a combined 5 for 10 with two walks. Had the top of the lineup not gone 0 for 16 prior to a 9th-inning outburst by Jeter and Bobby Abreu, the Yanks could have slugged it out with the Pirates. But it was not to be.
On the mound, the story of the night was Darrell Rasner. The righty lasted just 5 innings, giving up 7 earned runs on 10 hits. He didn’t issue a walk, but does it really matter? For the month of June, Rasner finds himself 1-4 with a 7.00 ERA. He’s allowed 39 hits in 27 hits and isn’t confusing anyone anymore. After a stellar May — 3-1, 1.80 ERA — Rasner is crashing back to reality rather quickly.
Right now, the Yankees don’t have options behind Rasner. Either Sidney Ponson or Jeff Karstens will get the ball on Friday, and if either of them pitch well enough, they may get a chance to make a few spot starts in Rasner’s place. Alan Horne and Al Aceves aren’t quite yet ready to jump from AAA to the Bronx; Ian Kennedy is still a few weeks away; Phil Hughes and Carl Pavano — don’t laugh — could be ready at around the same time but not until August.
So what’s a team to do? (Other than dump LaTroy Hawkins, that is.)
For now, the Yankees will have to ride it out. It would help if the top of the lineup would produce against the Pirates though. But, hey, in a 12-5 game, there’s enough blame for everyone.
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Hypothetical question… if there was a fly keeping you awake at night, and you had finally killed it… would you make that accomplishment (the killing) your new facebook status?
My answer: probably not.
Sorry Ben… I just open facebook and that was the first thing I saw.
Grrr
It wasn’t actually keeping me awake, but it was pissing me off. The thing was buzzing all over the place.
You could have traded it for McClouth…
who has better offensive #’s this yr at SS Tony Pena Jr or Derek? Just kidding but that is not to far off….
why or how is Derek so bad…It is true our middle of the diamond offensively this yr. is scary bad… cano, derek, melky, and catcher may be the worst combined in the league.. thank god for KC offensively..
Yeah you are right Jeters 270 with absolutely no power and limited extra base hits is better then pena’s 150 or so…My bad.. But hey let’s talk about Melky for a few more weeks…SInce no one is watching Abreu is hitting 275, hideki has 7 HR’s, Giambi about 180 with RISP, and Cano has 8 less RBI’s then Melky but hey blame the 9th hitter…
I think Jeter’s hand injury is way worse then he is leading on.
The amazing thing is that he’s pretty much inline offensively with the other shortstops in the AL. It’s one thing for someone to be having a bad year, but it seems like every AL shortstop is having a bad year.
I love how everyone ignores your last paragraph…..like it doesn’t exist.
i think at this point, i’m just ignoring him in general.
but A.D. has a beat on it. with Melky, you have another viable option… the fans can see it, beat writers can report on the farm.
with guys like Jeter and Abreu and Giambi, etc, you dont have any other options. you have to hope they just fight thru it and start to produce. thats what they are getting paid for.
but the fact is, even without Cano and Melky, if you cant score with a lineup 1-6 that includes Damon, Jeter, Abreu, Arod, Giambi, and Posada, it doesnt matter who’s batting 8th or 9th, you’re screwed.
but that doesnt mean you should forget about who’s batting 8th or 9th altogether, or upgrading there at all.
stuart, who are you arguing with? are you hearing voices?
The issue is Melky has a legit replacement the others don’t.
Matsui’s power slump is probably due to his knee(s) and that he’s hitting for good average.
Abreu, is essentially a .280 – .290 hitter who’s been in a terrible, documented slump, so figure he’s at the bottom of his avg.
If Gardner ceiling is so high, how come you never hear of another team clamoring to get him? Why isn’t his name ever brought up in trade rumors? If he is such a patient hitter and a walk machine, why isn’t every moneyball team trying to get him? Are the New York papers just not publishing trade rumors about him because he is such a “legit replacement”?
actually, if i recall correctly, Brett Gardner’s name came up when Cashman and Billy Beane were reportedly discussion the Yankees interest in Dan Johnson, and was told he was unavailable.
I would have told Beane that YOU were unavailable for Dan Johnson. (I would never trade you by the way, you are untouchable in my book)
Actually, Giambi’s at .150 with RISP. Don’t give him more credit than he deserves, Stuart!
I am not going to live and die by this but I ran Robertson through a spreadsheet I downloaded off Baseball Think Factory and his MLE was the following:
2.40 ERA, 30IP, 23H, 0HR, 15BB, 33K
Its time for Hawkins to go.
1.26-WHIP and a 4.50-BB/9 is not too shabby for the fifth option in the bullpen (MO, Farns, Veras, Edwar).
Let Hawkins go? But this has always been one of Cashman’s weak points. He hates to admit he’s made a bad investment. I really hope he proves me wrong this time. Memo to Cash: sunk costs don’t count. Cut your losses.
Of course, that is only tinkering at the margins. The offense has been decent of late, though the team is in too many low-scoring games and that highlights the pitching vulnerability.
I wish someone could figure out what is wrong with Cano. Not in last night’s game, but there is no reason why someone with his pure hitting talent should struggle so mightily.
last night was just painful to watch. how is it that every single person watching at home knew to take strike one, and maybe even strike two, before you pick the bat off your shoulder, you had veterans and hall of fame players goin up and swinging at the first and second pitches on their ABs… they totally let Gorzelanny off the hook.
but its very important to remember at this point in the season, while its nice and sexy to sweep, its more funamentally important to win the series.
they’ve got Joba tonight, and Moose tomorrow.
you are only as good as your next day’s starting pitcher, and we’ve got two good ones going the next two days.
if only this offense would show up against LHP.
PeteAbe is reporting that Matsui has now come down with a stiff neck to go along with his knee issues. At this point, dont you simply DL him? what value does he have on the roster if he cant pinch hit, and is absolutely unable to play the OF?
And please remind me who the general manager who put this team together is again?
The General Manager who has gotten this team five AL pennants, three World Series rings, ten straight playoff appearances and in the last three years turned this farm system from a bottom five crop to a top five crop.
thats all?
You know what’s sad, that is actually the sentiment of more than a few Yankee fans.
Bill Bavasi is available.
Damn Straight! I expect my Yankee GM to give me 10 world series titles every nine years, 10 AL MVP’s, 10 Cy Youngs, 10 Rookies of the Year, and to come over to my house and fluff my pillows and dust my bookshelves full of free Yankee memorabilia he’s personally delivered to me.
And to personally call me to check before he makes any trades or roster moves.
I don’t get the rampant obsession with taking a strike.
If you’re Daryl Rasner or in Little League yes, but if you’re a major league hitter facing a major league pitcher, and the count isn’t 3 and 0, and the ball comes right down the middle of the plate, you swing at it.
Jeter just hit the ball in exactly the wrong place. It happens.
Melky had two walks, and came up with the bases loaded after Rasner walked. The first pitch to him was a meatball, and he missed a grand slam by a few feet. I’m sure most of the blogosphere would say swinging at that pitch was a bad idea, yet doing very nearly netted four runs.
As long as they swing at a pitch that’s clearly going to be a strike anyway, what’s the big deal????
Melky is very good at almost hitting home runs.
one could argue that was probably the best almost grand slam theyve ever seen.
Haters.
Brett Gardner would have hit the Granny. (I don’t mean grand slam, I mean the old women sitting just behind the third base dugout)
fantastic.
Rasner was terrible from the very first batter. you could tell he had bad stuff.
it’s very hard to win a game when you can’t put up a zero.
the offense was annoying, but you aren’t going to win many games with a start like that.
come back and win tonight. that’s all you can do.
Thank you. Games like these happen, you just go back to your hotel, get some rest and come back tomorrow night.
Well look on the bright side yesterday, it was Phil Hughes B-Day.
also, everyone here knows Hawkins days are numbered. he’s gone as soon as the organization says the young guys are ready.
that time is not quite here yet. soon, but not yet.
i don’t see the point in bitching about Hawkins pitching mop up work.
you guys don’t think Cashman is aware of Robertson? he is. once Contreras says “GO”, he’ll be up.
Hey Steve, no one has time for your “voice of reason”. If you are not going to panic and scream for every player in the minors to get called up immediately, give up on every young proven player the Yankees have and complain about painfully obvious bullpen problems, then may God forgive you.
C’mon, dude. You don’t have to take your lust for Melky Cabrera so seriously.
Melky filled a need for 2 years but his usefulness has reached the end. We’re not talking about a rookie here.
He’s been in the majors for two years and his production is getting worse, not better.
Most people on this board think it’s time to make a change and give Melky a kick in the ass because they have other options. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
Melky benefited from being at the right place at the right time when he got the opportunity to play every day because of Matsui and Sheffield going down.
Now, it’s someone else’s turn to get an opportunity.
Spare me the “patience” stuff. Melky is what he is – a fourth outfielder who happens to start.
I understand that most of you are wearing Brett-colored glasses, but do you really think that HE is anything more than a 4th outfielder?
I understand that Gardner runs like a deer, hits nothing but line drives to the gap, and has the most discerning eye since Ted Williams, but where was he when Melky got his big break? Why didn’t he get the call up? I can’t remember all the way back to 2006, but what was Melky doing in AAA when he got called up?
I hope Gardner succeeds, I really do. After all, he is a Yankee. But I am not ready to give up on Melky.
in 2005, Gardner was still playing with the College of Charleston when Melky made his MLB debut, and when Melky got the call for good in 2006, Brett was an All-Star OF playing single-A ball in the Florida State League.
Gardner was less than a year removed from the draft when Melky got the call-up. Melky was an international signing who had been with the organization for three full seasons before 2006. That’s a ridiculous comparison.
Take a look at Gardner’s MiLB numbers and Melky’s MiLB numbers. Gardner has been better at nearly every single level than Melky was. Sure, age matters, but all we’re asking for is to give Gardner a chance so we don’t have to watch Melky and his sub-.700 make any more outs than he already has.
Wow, I wish I was on this site when Melky got called up in 2006. BA of .385? OPS of .996? Wow. Only 9 strikeouts?
I know it a small sample, and I’m just kidding about his stats, but to give up on a 23 year old is stupid.
i completely agree. there is no way you give up on Melky, but that doesnt mean you cant explore other options and try other things while he’s struggling, either.
Jeez. No one is saying to give up on him. They’re saying explore other options. There’s a difference as a few commenters now have tried to tell you this morning.
Ben, there are a lot of people clamoring to get rid of him, a lot.
Ok. Let me clarify a bit.
I would “get rid of” Melky right trade offer came along. But as I said yesterday, I don’t think now is the time to trade him.
I would also look into giving Gardner a shot to show whether or not he would produce at a level greater than Melky’s. I don’t care if Melky’s only the 9 hitter. He’s producing at a level well below league average and were it not for an outstanding April, he would be having a terrible, terrible season.
The same people who criticize the Yankees for putting together a crappy bullpen with their $200 million payroll sure are willing to cut Melky way too much slack.
Man I hope that ya’ll give Gardner some time to struggle, or Ajax or Tabata or any other young player.
You make it sound like Melky’s struggles are abnormal. Looking at his career numbers on a season-to-season basis, he has 1) gotten worse; and 2) never been better than below average. Those are facts that you can’t escape no matter how much you love Melky.
Just call up Apple Pie and get this over with already.
What is the league average for a #9 hittting center fielder?
We’ve had two years of Melky playing CF – not two weeks or two months.
Give Gardner his shot and see what he can do. If he gets two years like Melky did to show his stuff, I bet he becomes a more productive player.
Just because Melky had a very good 2006 when the team needed him doesn’t give him an automatic bid to stay in the every day lineup for the next 5 years when he’s stinking up the joint.
The beauty of having a good farm system is competition and the means to make a change when it’s necessary.
To answer your question, Melky has the 10th worst OPS among AL CFers, and among all ALers with 75 or more plate appearances out of the 9 hole, he has the 5th highest OPS putting him behind such All Stars as Yunieksy Betancourt and Erick Aybar.
Melky Cabrera’s “usefulness has reached the end” at 23-years-old? Ok then.
yeah, i wouldnt say he’s finished.
but it looks like the league has made adjustments to him, and so far he’s failed to make the adjustments he needs to back.
i think Melky can still remain useful, and play a role on this team… but its starting to look like he’s settling into more of a bench player who happens to start right now because they arent quite ready to make a move on a replacement yet more than he’s played his way into a starter who you cant take out of the lineup.
His usefulness isn’t over at 23, he hasn’t progressed as one has hoped, so give a guy who is progressing time, you can still play Melk as a 4th OF get him in games, get him time, or have him play some more in AAA, and see if he tears that up.
I think Melk’s upside is still Bernie Williams type production in his prime, with maybe less average so we’re talking .290 & 25HR or essentially what Paul O’Neill gave us (minus some avg).
I think they should give Brett some time this year, see if he produces, and barring some trade falling in our laps go with Damon, Gardner & Melk in the OF next year. If they struggle they can look to bring AJAX up or then make a trade
Bernie Williams in his prime was one of the best players in baseball. There’s absolutely no way Melky reaches that plateau.
It’s #s production, not how the player would be perceived in the game, Melky could put up .290 & 25 HR, with the way he started he was def on pace for that.
Bernie’s prime was .330 and 25 -30 HR, I don’t think Melk will be the perennial AS that Bernie was, more like Raul Ibanez solid OF puts up quiet numbers.
Basically I didn’t say Melk would be Bernie, I said he could put up similar numbers as Bernie has as a crude point of comparison for fans reading the post. Bernie had some great seasons, and his stature in the game was obviously helped by being in the middle of the line-up for a championship team in NYC
I hope nobody shoots me for saying so, but do we have anything to lose by calling up Igawa and give him another try? He’s been pitching well in AAA, he might be AAAA player so far but we are paying him truckloads of money, might as well give him more chances to prove himself.
I can’t imagine him being much worse than the Rasner we’ve seen the last month or so.
do we have anything to lose by calling up Igawa and give him another try?
You mean, besides more baseball games?
Zing!
He’s making $4M a year, where is this misconception coming from that the Yankees are paying him “truckloads of money”?
well, i guess truckloads of money for a AAA guy.
A) He’s proven himself already. No need for more chances. He is what we thought he was.
B) I don’t ever want “we’re paying him truckloads of money” to ever be justification for giving a demonstrably inferior player more playing time.
C) I certainly can imagine him being much worse than the Rasner we’ve seen for the past month. The Rasner of the past month is probably Rasner’s floor. It’s Igawa’s ceiling. Rasner is a 4-A pitcher who, when he finds his groove, is good enough to be a 5th starter. Igawa is a 3-A pitcher who, when he finds his groove, still sucks balls.
D) I don’t want to shoot you for saying so… but I do want to shake you pretty hard…
Well, I counted the posting fee too. I guess maybe that money didn’t go to him but we paid it, and it averages out to just over $9 million a year, so essentially we are paying him as much as Pavano, and getting the same amount from the investment, except he’s healthy.
Darrell Rasner = Aaron Small. We all knew eventually that he’d come back to earth. He’s a 6th starter.
I mentioned IPK in another thread, and IPK and Melky have a lot in common, IMO. They’re both good, quality youngsters who both probably have a league-average floor, and a quality ML player ceiling. I think most (but certainly not all) of the “Anti-Melky” crowd don’t want to actively move or demote Melky, they just don’t want him turned into an “untouchable” until he demonstrates growth (as opposed to regression). Since there is a high-quality player at Scranton who has succeeded at multiple levels who has a shot to do what Melky does a little better, we want to see him in the bigs. And, if another team is interested in giving us a piece that we need, Melky must be considered as tradeable (provided the other team has interest.)
For me, IPK should be severed from the other “Big Three”. Kennedy does not have the ceiling that Joba and Hughes do, so if he was the centerpiece (or part of a two or three headed centerpiece) of a deal to bring back a quality bat or pitcher, I’m okay dealing him too.
For the umpteenth time, the Aaron Small comparison simply doesn’t work. Rasner has ALWAYS shown the ability to pitch, Small never did save that one half season. Rasner is younger, with a better track record, and not completely out of the blue.
Yes, he is regressing, but he’s also probably not as bad as his last few starts…
Im starting to hate eiland as a pitching coach.
Why is it that every single one of our “Young Stars” stink this year? Not a single one is doing good. I mean is this a coincidence?? Meanwhile, Pedroia is doing great, Ellsbury has a million steals and is doing fine, Lester throws a no-hitter and is doing good…why? Can’t we have at least ONE of our youngsters do well?!?? We have Cano battling the Mendoza Line, we have Hughes and IPK adding up to 0 wins and an over 10.00 ERA while both going on the DL (actually a blessing…) and Melky is an automatic out now. Joba Chamberlain doesn’t even know what he is anymore…bullpen? starter? Is he going to get injured too because of this unorthodox routine of going from bullpen to starter? And he still doesn’t have a win as a starter either…even after some decent starts.
I mean what is going on with this team? Is it really just the NYC overhype?!? Or is it a curse? I don’t understand. Our pitcher walks twice last night…and our leadoff hitter also walks twice…and at the time after this happened…we still only had ONE run scored.
The fact we’re only 5.5 out right now is amazing. We’re playing like garbage. We literally are missing a bunch of decent starters…our bullpen is the embarrassing and terrible and we barely score runs when needed. I think we have like 2 come from behind wins after the 7th inning this season only? And I think they were both during the same series.
Something needs to happen.
From 2001 to now there have been 15 pitchers to make a mid-season transition from bullpen to starter like Joba is now. I can’t find the article now (it was ESPN), but some of those 15 include Schilling, Tom Gordon, Johan Sanata, Billingsley, Carlos Zambrano, and Kelvim Escobar.
You are right in saying that almost every young player is performing below expectations, but that means we should have a good second half to look forward to.
In the past 4 games the Yankees are 1-3 and have scored a total of 11 runs…but they’ve given up 23 runs though! And they’re team batting average in these 4 games is a stellar .194. I’m excited about tonight…what about you!!!!
If it’s not the 25 games over .500 second half we had last year than we might be in trouble…
Even so, regardless…if we get to the playoffs we’ll lose in the first round again. We refuse to get pitching. I don’t think we ‘ve had a decent bullpen this century.
Yes something needs to happen, you need to see…not react, meaning no disrespect. Joba is doing good, if he isn’t the ace you wanted right now…sorry ’bout that. Nothing unorthodox about starting the season in the BP, many aces have done the same. Our BP is not embarrassing, the 1 thru 6 hitters are (also Melky). IPK and Phil were injured, and (maybe) rushed a bit, so be it…we’ll live with it, until someone steps up.
Cano and Melky suck this year, no getting around that. They are still very young and the harder they try, the worse it will be for them. We have a few answers for Cano/Melky, sit them down for a few games. Let them get their sh@!# together, play AG and Brett…one righty, one lefty.
Let’s not get to worked up over a couple of (dozen) loses. Help is on the way; Robertson, Horn, Brett and a few more, give them time. On another note…boy, is that stuff true? It sounds good! 27/08?
The unorthodox isn’t starting in the bullpen and becoming a starter….it’s the transition. It’s extremely unorthodox to make the transition this way.
Many, many pitchers have done it and had a stellar record. One must remember, he knew in ST that he was going to go from BP to starter, that’s why his ST was set as a starter. His problem this year (as a starter) has more to do with pitch count rather then starting. After all, he has been a starter his entire life, the transition…no biggie. 27/08?
The unorthodox isn’t starting in the bullpen and becoming a starter….it’s the transition. It’s extremely unorthodox to make the transition this way.
dude, you are totally full of shit on this point.
how is Joba doing? pretty well.
you are complaining for the sake of complaining.
in fact, i would point to Joba’s transition and shove it in everyone’s face who complained about it beforehand, b/c i really don’t see how it was anything other than a huge success.
Yeah because a sample size of a few weeks is how I rank everything that goes on in this world.
And I’m full of shit??
cmon buddy…
You comment that all of our young stars stink is baseless…
1. Joba has been far from a disappointment
2. Hughes and Kennedy have been on the DL for weeks now, making it impossible to make a meaningful asssessment of either.
3. Edwar, Alberto and Giese all have looked pretty good
4. Cano has been a disappointment, though seems to finally breaking out of his slump
5. The jury seems divided on Melky, though I can’t see how his ’08 performance “stinks”
I recommend you clairfy your comment….
Easy there killer… before you get all worked up with talk of “curses” or other defeatist Bostonian garbage.
“Can’t we have at least ONE of our youngsters do well?!??”
Joba since conversion to starter
17.2 IP, 2.62 ERA, 19 SO, 12 BB
The walks are a bit high but I wouldn’t say that he “stinks” and I’m not ready to give up on Hughes or IPK, much less Cano.
What’s the worst case scenario? I’d rather miss the playoffs and take this as a rebuilding year than sell low-buy high by trading young talent for a mediocre player like Brandon Arroyo or decimating the farm system for high end talent like CC. If it comes down to us still stinking up the joint at the trading deadline, I’d sooner deal some of our aging but productive talent like Giambi or Damon to a contender.
I’m as disappointed as you are, but I think it needs to be kept in perspective.
his name starts with a J, ends with an A, with an OB in the middle.
frankly, since he was called up, he’s been MORE than we could’ve hoped for.
didn’t see the game last night. how did christian look at the plate? what was his error?
He did good, a little bobble in the outfield. Other then that, he did good. Maybe more good stuff on the way, with Mat/Johnny hurting. We’ll see! 27/08?
More ESPN RedSox love/Yankee hate:
Best Top of the Order:
1) Ian Kinsler and Michael Young
2) Alfonso Soriano and Michael Theriot
3) Jacoby Ellsbury and Dustin Pedroia
Not mentioned: Johnny Damon and Derek Jeter
Best 3-4 Lineup Combination
1) Milton Bradley and Josh Hamilton
2) Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez
3) Ryan Braun and Prince Fielder
4) Chipper Jones and Mark Teixeira
5) Albert Pujols and Ryan Ludwick
6) J.D. Drew and Manny Ramirez
7) Chase Utley and Ryan Howard
8) Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau
Not mentioned: Alex Rodriguez and Jason Giambi