Pavano loses for the first time in 1174 days


Carl Pavano last lost a game three years, two months and 17 days ago. I guess he was bound to lose one at some point. That’s about the only nice — albeit sarcastic — thing I can say about tonight’s embarrassing 12-1 loss in Anaheim. And as I’ve always learned, if it’s 1:15 a.m. and you don’t have anything nice to say, just go to bed. So feel free to vent away, just as Pudge did when he attempted to but failed to egg on Vladimir Guerrero.

Categories : Asides, Game Stories


  1. “I’ve always learned, if it’s 1:15 a.m. and you don’t have anything nice to say, just go to bed.”….

    Cricket….cricket…… :)


  2. BigBlueAL says:

    I posted a similar post earlier tonight but I wanted to post again to sort of set the record straight for people who probably get tired/annoyed about me bringing up Torre and his championship teams.

    Its sad that I was enjoying listening to the YES announcers (btw it wasnt just Michael Kay) ripping these Yankees. Its just that I mean Im only 28 but to me those championship Torre teams are special to me since they occured when I was 16-20 yo’s, or my “glory” years.

    Now I look at this team and its like I dont recognize these Yankees. They are so different and in no way resemble those championship Yankees its sad. It doesnt help that Torre, who is like a grandfather to me (LOL) is now with the Dodgers and yeah I know they play in the worse division in baseball and their record is actually worse than the Yankees (although I dont know for how much longer that will last) but they too got off to a pretty bad start but are right there with a chance to make the playoffs.

    I know its stupid to keep going back to the good old days and stuff, making me sound like a bitter old man, and I have to move on but hey what can I say its tough for me. I dont at all advocate firing Girardi, although to be honest I couldnt care less either way, but I do think your damn right there better be pressure put on him. Plus screw all the injury talk cause you know what the last 3 years there were plenty of injuries, hell just look at the pitching staff in 2005, and yet Torre always found a way to make the playoffs. Hell not only is this team not making the playoffs, they most likely will finish in 4th place and who knows if they even wind up over .500.

    Sorry as a little kid I couldnt wait for the day the Yankees made the playoffs, and granted the streak was bound to end, but not in a season with a 209 million payroll and when they re-signed 3 players to contracts that will have them in their 40′s when they expire. This isnt no re-building year. It doesnt help that my beloved Knicks dont give me an alternative anymore like they did in the 90′s. But at least this upcoming season with a new coach and no expectations anytime they win it will be exciting and there can be moral victories in some losses. Seeing these Yankees lose like they do just brings frustration and a built-in anger towards alot of these players/coaches. At least Girardi isnt as bad as Isiah, or is he………

    • Hybrid Moments says:

      You do realize that you’re knocking the Yankees for possibly not finishing .500 yet the Dodgers are sporting a winning percentage of .507 right? Lets also forget how Joe Torre, not the Yankees, decided not to come back to New York. He had the nerve to turn down a lucrative one year deal from the Yankees after orchestrating the biggest collapse in history (2004) and then not being able to make it out of the first round in 2005, 2006, and 2007. Forget about Torre, this team would probably be worse if he were here.

      • BigBlueAL says:

        Worse if he were here??? Are you fucking serious. WOW. Thats all I got to say to that….

        • usty says:

          I agree with hybrid moments. Our bullpen would be in shambles right now too with Torre. There’s a reason guys like Bruney didn’t like him.

        • steve (different one) says:

          Worse if he were here??? Are you fucking serious. WOW. Thats all I got to say to that….

          well, you have absolutely no proof otherwise.

          i’d guess they’d be in about the same spot.

          the season was lost when Posada, Wang, and Joba went down.

          that’s the story.

          there just isn’t that much a manager can do, good or bad.

          maybe they’d be a game or 2 better b/c some of the vets would be more “comfortable” with Torre, but they certainly wouldn’t be NINE games better and sitting in a playoff spot.

          • True. We can wax poetic about Joe Torre, who did lots and lots of things right during his tenure, but based on his track record, we’d probably be doing the same or possibly worse.

            Torre had a habit of overtaxing his bullpen and not trusting young or inexperienced players. If he were here, we probably wouldn’t have had the good contributions that we did receive in 2008 from a host of players, like Edwar, Veras, Bruney, Farnsworth, Robertson, and Giese… and I fail to see how any manager other than Jesus or Muhammad could have prevented the crippling injuries to Wang, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Albaladejo, ARod, Posada, Matsui, Damon, or Jeter.

            • Andy In Sunny Daytona says:

              Saint Joe had the power of healing. He could lay his hands on the players, and a warm, healing light would envelop the injury and instantly cure the malady. Only problem it was very awkward on groin injuries.

  3. cult of basebaal says:

    things end badly, else they wouldn’t end …

  4. Hitman says:

    Bring up Kennedy and Hughes. Get Pavano and Ponson out of the rotation already.

  5. BigYank1 says:

    This team plays like a bunch of pansies. There is no fire or willingness to go out there and fight to win.

    They sleepwalk through the games and go collect their paychecks. I hope there are a BUNCH of changes to this roster next season.

    They are an embarrassment to the Pinstripes.

    • pat says:

      wasnt there a bench clearing fight last night?

    • Ugh, STFU with that bullshit line of thought already. Players who get hurt and struggle or have a slump and struggle are not “lacking fire” or “sleepwalking through games” or “playing like pansies” or any of the rest of that counterintellectual, uncritical John-Krukian claptrap.

      It’s just a bad year. A lot of our players either had bad years or got hurt… it happens. The 2006 Red Sox had a bunch of their best players either get hurt or hit a slump all at once, and they missed the playoffs. The next year, they won the World Series with basically the exact same team.

      They’re not an embarrassment to the pinstripes, you are. The Yankees are the best and most successful organization in baseball, and they deserve the best fans, fans with perspective and insight, not knee-jerk boneheads who clutch at every hackneyed cliche to try and spin anthropomorphic narrative into what is simply random chance and circumstance.

  6. Hybrid Moments says:

    Why bother wasting emotion? It doesn’t matter if they win or lose anymore. It hasn’t for quite sometime now. Stop getting bent out of shape and just look forward to the exciting off season we have to look forward to.

  7. mustang says:

    What a sad way for Yankees Stadium to close the gates not with a bang but a whimper.

  8. RollingWave says:

    Cy Young hasn’t lost a game in like 100 years!

  9. BigBlueAL says:

    Since apparently this team would be worse if Torre were still manager according to someone here, and others in the past have actually said “Fuck Torre” (although Jamal you did apologize and said it came out the wrong way so I forgive you, plus your a good kid) Ive gotta say this is hilarious. After tonights game you had Girardi smiling and laughing when talking about the “fight”, yet you had all the players saying it was embarrassing considering the score and that they got their ass whooped.

    So apparently the players hold themselves more accountable than the manager. Im sorry but I know what you say to the media and how you handle the media shouldnt really matter in terms of how you should be evaluated as a manager, but this is getting laughable. You guys can rip Pete Abe all you want for his stupid shots at Girardi, and he is an asshole most of the times, but guess what he aint the only person who has said the same things.

    Everyone here before the season was all excited to have a manager who will now be “firey” and tough unlike Torre. Well I tell you one thing, Torre used to be pissed ass fuck ALOT of times after horrible Yankees games. Ill never forget his post-game press conference after Game 4 of the 2003 ALCS, Ive never seen a manager as angry, but calm in the same time, as he was then. Even the players used to always say that Torre isnt always as nice as he seems, he lays into them in private when he has to.

    Girardi always looks tough and pissed during the game but afterward he constantly gives alibi’s and excuses, plus as even Mike made fun of him earlier tonight contradicts what his players say all the time and makes everything seem like its OK. Hmm I wander why then the team plays with absolutely no sense of urgency. Again I wouldnt be so pissed if it werent for people to have the audacity to rip Torre. My God you can tell alot of you guys are pretty young cause you dont remember when the Yankees used to change managers during the season almost yearly.

    If Torre sucks and would apparently be doing a worse job than Girardi this year, man I cant believe what some of you guys would be saying if the Yankees still had guys like Dallas Green, Bucky Dent and Stump Merrill managing……

    • Mark B says:

      Amen to that…….we didn’t know how good we had it until he was gone

      Here’s to Torre and the Dodgers…’s hoping they upset the Cubbies in the playoffs!

      • steve (different one) says:

        Ill never forget his post-game press conference after Game 4 of the 2003 ALCS, Ive never seen a manager as angry, but calm in the same time, as he was then.

        holy shit.

        only here could someone use one of the WORST managing decision in baseball history as an argument in FAVOR of Joe Torre.


        Torre loses the pivotal game of the World Series without ever bringing THE GREATEST RELIEVER OF ALL TIME into the game, and you are PRAISING him for his POST-GAME press conference?

        am i taking crazy pills??????

        do you not remember Jeff Weaver giving up a walk off HR??? in the WORLD SERIES???

        Jeff Weaver???

        there are a lot of good things to say about Torre. he was a fine manager and a great Yankee.

        but you happened to pick the single worst example you possible could.


        • Nady Nation says:

          Wasn’t the 2003 ALCS the Don Zimmer game? I think you’re mixing up Game 4′s of the LCS nad WS

            -Shut up, he’s on a roll…

            • steve (different one) says:

              Wasn’t the 2003 ALCS the Don Zimmer game? I think you’re mixing up Game 4’s of the LCS nad WS

              holy shit.

              only here could someone use the WRONG example as an argument AGAINST Joe Torre.


              Torre wins a pivotal game of the ALCS after THE GREATEST INSTANCE OF A 75 YEAR OLD MAN GETTING SHOVED TO THE GROUND OF ALL TIME, and you are PRAISING him for his POST-GAME press conference?

              am i taking crazy pills??????

              do you not remember ROGER CLEMENS throwing a high STRIKE to Manny Ramirez and Manny spazzing out??? in the ALCS???

              Roger Clemens???

              there are a lot of good things to say about Torre. he was a fine manager and a great Yankee.

              but you happened to pick a completely different example than the one i wanted to talk about.


              i am an idiot. apologies to BigBlueAL.

              but seriously, i still can’t believe he let Weaver give up that HR.

    • Hybrid Moments says:

      Joe Torre is currently managing a baseball team in the weakest division of baseball to the tune of a .507 winning percentage. You have yet to address this. How is Torre going to do anything about Wang and Posada being out for the year? How is Torre going to keep Jeter, A-Rod, Damon, and Matsui from missing significant time? Hes not going to. Nobody was bringing up this Torre bullshit when they were within three or four games of the wild card. Now that guys like Rasner and Ponson have reverted back to the norm and the bullpen has stopped overachieving people act as if Torre would’ve done anything to help this team. He really did a great job motivating them against Cleveland and Detroit the past two years! He did a great job wearing out every reliable reliever we had! Anyone else remember the article printed back in the winter about how Torre was vehemently against bringing in Morgan Ensberg and Milton Bradley last season? Give it a rest already. This team is no better with Torre at the helm and when the Dodgers don’t make the playoffs I will laugh.

      Fuck Joe Torre.

  10. MD says:

    this used to be Paulie’s team….and reflected that personality….now it’s Arod’s team, and consequently reflects that personality……it will improve when we get enough grinders to carry Arod….he’ll get his 35/120 and then we’ll need the pitching, defense and clutch hitting (think of all the non-superstars who performed during the 96-00 run) to carry it through….I think Cashmen gets this….he calls it becoming more athletic, but ultimately it is getting real baseball players instead of HR heroes……….

    • usty says:

      I would love a team of 9 A-Rod’s. Always hustling, always playing the game the right way. And Carry A-Rod?? Really? Like last year when all those grinders carried him to one of the greatest seasons in baseball history? I like how you glanced over his 35/120. You do realize what a luxury it is to be able to almost guarantee that every year at one position on the field right? But i’m sure most of those 35 and 120 will come when we’re down 7 or up 5 and not really count.

      Injuries and underperformance at 2nd base and CF all year have killed this team in a division that is absolutely stacked now. Losing 3/5th’s of your starting rotation, despite 2 of them drastically underperforming, Joba right when he was becoming an ace, and having to start Sidney Ponson, Darrell Rasner, and Dan Giese most of the year killed this team.

      If A-rod isn’t the definition of a “real baseball player” to you, then who is?

      • pat says:

        Was doin a little research and found this to be a little too funny to pass up.

        RE: Arod not carrying the team;type=reg

        • Yes, sure, pat, but look at his smug smile… clearly, he’s got no passion or fire for the game. We should hire Larry Bowa back to move in with ARod and Cano and whip those two lazy, shiftless Dominicans into shape.

      • MD says:

        Jeter, O’neill, Bernie, Piniella, Brosius, Tino, Munson, Roy White, Posada, and Arod when he’s not squeezing the sawdust out of the bat…..

        • “it will improve when we get enough grinders to carry Arod…” “think of all the non-superstars who performed during the 96-00 run…” “ultimately it is getting real baseball players instead of HR heroes…”


          Goddamnit, I can tell already that we’re all about to be up to our collective eyeballs with statement after statement of mind-paralyzing stupidity and misguided, inept, mythical bullshit fantasy this offseason.


          The 1996-2000 Yankees were a tremendously, outrageously, ricidulously talented succession of teams that won because they were really, really good, not because they were gritty or grindy or egdey or woke up in the morning and pissed excellence and applied some championship brand moisturizing fairy dust cologne. They were really, really talented and also really, really, really lucky in that they never suffered through any significant injury woes and were able to benefit from market dynamics that fostered the consistent acquisition of premium talent during a period where none of their economic peers had figured out how to effectively take the same advantages we were taking.

          It’s not that we are acquiring the wrong players or that we’ve lost some cultural dynamic in the clubhouse or front office, it’s that we were totally benevolently fortuitous to have a bunch of premium young talent all reach maturity at the same time that a bunch of premium veteran talent became readily available through free agency or trade and none of our competitors were in the same situation, either financially, organizationally, or in levels of technical expertise. Shit like that doesn’t happen on a constant basis simply because you want it to or work hard for it, all the cards have to fall your way, and eventually, that luck runs out and the changing realities of your own team and your competitors forces your window to close.

          1996-2000 was a unique perfect storm of success that is so unpredictable and rare that it’s utterly pointless to draw any parallels between it and now. Our competitors have gotten stronger and smarter, mainly by learning from us, and we won’t likely ever have opportunity to be that consistently good ever again, no matter how many great and lucky decisions and results we accumulate. STOP ROMANTICIZING THE PAST TO BE SOMETHING MORE ORGANIC OR CULTURAL THAN IT REALLY WAS: we were really, really fortunate on many levels, and good fortune like that is always fleeting, which is why true dynasties are few and far between.

          GIVE IT A REST.

          • pat says:

            We also had some really good pitcher-type players too.

          • MD says:

            from the length of this diatribe, maybe you need to GIVE IT A REST….or at least get down off the soapbox…

            “Goddamnit, I can tell already that we’re all about to be up to our collective eyeballs with statement after statement of mind-paralyzing stupidity and misguided, inept, mythical bullshit fantasy this offseason.”

            I guess the Yankee fans aren’t as intelligent as made up to be…..I’ve only followed them since 1957, so I’ll just read your comments from now on to educate myself as to what this game is all about.

            • Ah, yes, nothing quite as patronizingly trite as the old “Why, I’ve watched my beloved _______ since back in 19-aught-6, when men were men and women were silent! In my day, I paid a nickel to sit on my grandad’s lap to watch Ol’ Ross Hadbourn dazzle the Philadelphia Americans with his curve-ball that was as slippery as Doc Johnson’s pomade on a whale-bone corset, by gum, and those were some fine lads who played the game the right way, I tells ya!”

              I don’t really care that you’ve followed the Yanks since 1957. I’m happy for you, though, you’ve clearly lived a long and fulfilling life.

              Don’t see what that has to do with the fact that your blather about ARod’s “personality” infecting the team is insipidly fantastical, that your claim that the championship teams were marked by performances of non-superstars is patently false and smacks of a revisionist agenda, and that your calls for more “grinderism” and more “real baseball players” are the simplistic euphemistic crutches of the small-minded uncritical reactionary baseball bigot.

              But please, I’m just a young, wet-behind the ears thirtysomething fan who’s only followed the Yankees since 1988 (i’m guesstimating, sorry that I didn’t write the exact date down like I’m apparently supposed to), so clearly I must be an idiot and everything you say is more right than everything I say. Enlighten us, O great sage of baseball wisdom from 1957! We beseech you, come down from on high and tell us what lessons of Johnny Keane and Stan Bahnsen we have foolishly failed to heed in assembling this current incantation of Yankee baseball so slackabout and offensive that they are not fit to kiss your feet! We Young Turks shall tar and feather ourselves for our shameful audacity as we await your beneficence, oh M.D.!

              • MD says:

                it took you long enough, but you finally got it right with the last paragraph…..and dont hide behind “we” when making an arguement…… Yankee fans can disagree, but you dont need to do your Jimmy Swaggert impersonation to verbalize it…..”Enlighten me, O(h) great sage…..I beseech you……tell me what lessons…..I, Young Turk….for my shameful audacity as I await…..”

                you are too much….but I do enjoy following your comments, along with most of the other regulars to this site.

  11. Stryker says:

    can we call this season dead yet?! i’ve been waiting to do it since joba went down. come on already!

  12. Geno says:

    Darkness washed over the Dude. Darker than a black steer’s tuckus on a moonless prairie night – there was no bottom…

  13. TurnTwo says:

    for those keeping track, the Yankees need to let the Dodgers, Marlins, and DBacks pass them in the standings in order to get down to the 15th, and protected, pick in the first round.

    • JohnnyC says:

      Would it surprise you if that’s exactly what they’re trying to do? Looks bad right now but we’ll be glad we have the protected pick after we’ve signed CC and/or Tex.

  14. Oh, and FWIW, for all those who were predicting Derek Jeter’s untimely demise:
    In August and September, Jete’s tripleslash is .338/.404/.430, raising his totals on the year to .295/.359/.404. Here’s where Jeter ranks among ML shortstops for 2008:

    Hits: 4th (162, 4 hits away from 2nd)
    Runs: 6th (80)
    RBI: 4th (67, 3 RBI away from 3rd)
    Walks: 6th (49)
    BA: 5th (.295, .005 away from 3rd)
    OBP: 4th (.359, .004 away from 3rd)
    SLG: 9th (.407)
    OPS: 8th (.763) [of the 7 in front of him, only Jhonny Peralta is in the AL]

    hmm, I wonder how good his year would have been if he hadn’t been hit on the hand on May 20th and gone .198/.293/.267 over his next 22 games?

    • JohnnyC says:

      It’s obvious Derek would have hit better after getting hit on the hand if only Torre were still managing.

      • If Torre were managing, Derek would have never gotten hit in the hand, because Joe had a sixth sense about when players are about to get injured. He would have sat Derek that day against Daniel Cabrera, and Alberto Gonzales would have been hit by that pitch instead.

        Joe Torre = The Oracle from the Matrix.

    • Nady Nation says:

      I actually was sitting in the RF bleachers with the “real fans” at one of the Sawx games a couple of weeks ago and some guy next to me was going on about how we’re “stuck with Jeter” for the next few years. I hate being stuck with players who are in the top 5-6 of their respective positions in almost every category.

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