Coco Crisp traded to Royals

November 19, 2008 by Michael Axisa 65 Comments

Via MLBTR, the Boy Genius has reportedly traded Coco Crisp – perhaps the best available center fielder on the trade market – to the Royals for middle reliever Ramon Ramirez. Ramirez, as you may recall, was one of the two minor leaguers the Yanks shipped to Colorado for Shawn Chacon back in the day. He had a nice year in 2008, but really? It doesn’t seem like enough return.

http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

So Jacoby Ellsbury lost his starting job prior to the playoffs, and the Red Sox have reportedly sent a starting center fielder to the Royals for a middle reliever? That seems rather fishy.
- DonnieBaseballHallofFame
  
  I think this is a great deal for Boston under the following circumstances:
  
  Because of getting rid of Crisp and his million he is due (not a lot compared to most these days but still much more money than Ellsbury is due)
  
  The savings there, plus the savings they get from not having to sign a reliever to a deal like Marte (12 mill or more over 3 years, and I think they would be paying more in this market), and getting the cheap reliever they got from the Royals.
  
  They also save money if they can trade Bucholtz (spelling?) and some parts for one of the Rangers cheaper young catchers (cheaper much cheaper in more than just money) instead of giving the washed up Jason “Captin” V a Brinks truck full of money.
  
  All that savings allows them to get AJ Burnett very very cheaply. Or they save all the money and put whats his face Masterson (spelling?) in the starting rotation.
  
  Thats just my two cents on this deal. Another possibly smart move by the Sox, but there is much work to do for it to mean something I think. They also better hope that Jacoby Ells can get back to his 2007 numbers over a full season which might be wishful thinking on their part.
  - rbizzler
    
    Are the Red Sox trying to cut payroll? A fourth OF the quality of Crisp is a nice luxury to have for a contender.
    
    We’ll see if the cost-controlled reliever ends up being worth the price though.
    - DonnieBaseballHallofFame
      
      I think they are trying to cut payroll so they can make a run at Tex and or AJ Burnett. They would also have to try to find a way to get rid of Lowell as well which I would assume to be eating 90 percent of his salary and getting nothing in return.
      
      “We’ll see if the cost-controlled reliever ends up being worth the price though.”
      
      Agreed, and I hope it backfires on them.
nolan

So it looks like the Royals have an outfield surplus and are a bit short when it comes to relievers? The yanks could probably put together a deal with the royals for david dejesus. He would be an upgrade in CF.
- http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones
  
  The Royals are not trading us David DeJesus for a reliever.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

wierd. that doesn’t seem like a good trade.
Brian

Huh, yeah that’s weird.

So what’s KC’s plan with DeJesus?
pat

interesting. watch we acquire dejesus then package ajax hughes and ipk for peavy.
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.
  
  From Rosenthal: “The Padres told the Yankees a Jake Peavy deal is possible even without Phil Hughes. They’ve scouted Hughes anyway, but he’s off-limits.”
  - http://www.freewebs.com/ps3tf2/ Double-J
    
    I’m definitely intrigued (who wouldn’t be). Even though Hughes’ stock is down, getting Peavy without dealing him is a big plus. But I’m wondering what kind of package the Pads would want sans Hughes…any ideas, Mike?
    - http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.
      
      If the Braves don’t have to give up Heyward and Hanson, then the Yanks shouldn’t have to give up Hughes and Jackson. Maybe something around Gardner and Kennedy with some other middling guys, like Ramiro Pena and Frankie Cervelli?
      
      After my Damon for Swisher episode, I’m not qualified to throw out trade ideas.
      - AndrewYF
        
        You have to think Jackson would have to be in any kind of deal. Jackson, or Montero (although the Yankees probably consider him just as untouchable as Hughes).
        
        I’m thinking Kennedy, Jackson and one of the Yankees’ better relievers could get it done.
        
        DonnieBaseballHallofFame
        
        I see NO way this could happen for this sort of package. Pads need to dump his salary but they would be better off waiting until some of these free agents sign for STUPID money and then and only then trade Peavy for a haul.
        
        Yes they have less leverage because everybody knows they need to dump salary, but there will always be more teams in need of elite pitching than there is elite or even good pitching.
      - http://www.freewebs.com/ps3tf2/ Double-J
        
        Meh, I don’t think anyone could have guessed we’ve have to give up uber-stud Betemit for Swisher. Don’t feel too badly.
        
        With that sort of package, I’m wondering why this isn’t a no-brainer for the Yankee FO. A legitimate NL ace for Kennedy, Gardner, and a couple of spare parts? I hope that if Cashman could land Peavy for that sort of package, he’d jump on it.
        
        http://www.freewebs.com/ps3tf2/ Double-J
        
        Hmm, now that I’ve had a few minutes to think about it, does the non-inclusion of Hughes mean a package for Peavy would have to be centered around Cano?
        
        http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.
        
        I don’t think the Pads could afford Cano. They’re looking at a $40M payroll next year, and they already have one of their top prospects ready to step in at 2B.
        
        Ivan
        
        Antonelli had a brutal year in Triple A right?
        
        http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.
        
        Yeah, but that’s not going to stop them from plugging him in.
        
        http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)
        
        rain on the parade from Sherman:
        
        The Yankees were told the good news and bad news by the Padres weeks ago in their inquiries into Jake Peavy. Yes, you have the prospects to get the ace righty, possibly even in packages that did not have to include Phil Hughes. But, no, he has no interest in pitching for the Yankees.
      - Ivan
        
        Totally agree.
  - Andy In Sunny Daytona
    
    Sorry Mike, but Hall-of Famer Peter Gammons said yesterday, “The Yankees are not in the running at all.”
    Metatron has spoken.
    - http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones
      
      He also thinks we’re not going to get CC, so take both of those things with a gigantic boulder of salt.
  - p
    
    wow peavy without hughes. if we could get away with ipk jackson and a decent bat in cervelli i think you have to go after him. could dejesus be had for big deuce mcallister and robertson? or even just zmac? id almost rather give hughes and ipk straight keep jackson and let dellin and brackmizzle develop for a few yrs until the guys we acquire this offseason begin to decline in 3 or 4 yrs.
radnom

lol
what would it take to get coco from KC?
- http://www.freewebs.com/ps3tf2/ Double-J
  
  A bag of baseballs?
  - radnom
    
    He is certainly an upgrade over Gardner.
    - http://www.freewebs.com/ps3tf2/ Double-J
      
      I’d rather see them go after DeJesus, if they’re going to try and deal with KC for a CF.
      - radnom
        
        I agree actually.
- http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones
  
  what would it take to get coco from KC?
  
  Considering that they just traded for Mike Jacobs despite already having like, five 1B’s on their roster, maybe Juan Miranda?
CLT_JR

Would it be possible that KC flips him? Basically, do we have anything that KC might want in exchange for Crisp?
- CLT_JR
  
  Sorry, issues with my page loading….
Chris

I can’t believe that Cashman let the Red Sox get Ramirez!!1!!!1!1 He’s teh idiot!!!11!
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.
  
  Just wait until Ramirez has a 1-2-3 against the Yanks this year. ZOMG why did Cashman trade him for Chacon!111!!! He’s teh next Mo!111
  - http://www.freewebs.com/ps3tf2/ Double-J
    
    ROFLCOPTER CURSE OF THE RAMIREZES! FIRST MANNY NOW RAMON!1!!
Shamus

I don’t know. This deal seems in favor of KC. Which I hate to say, but you rarely see when Boy Wonder is at the other end of the deal. Theo has made some good deals.

(minus, in my opinion, the Pena/Arroyo deal, the Gagne deal, and now this)

They gave up alot for Crisp a few years back. Kelly Shoppach and Andy Marte if I remember. Bet they regret that deal right now.

Makes me wonder if:

a) We could try to pry Crisp or DeJesus from KC for a decent package excluding any of the top 5 ‘untouchables’ from the farm (Hughes, Melancon, Montero, Jackson and Betances). Obviously, I don’t include Joba or Cano in the ‘from the farm category’. They both have full time roles on the mlb roster, imo, at this point.

and

b) Theo is up to something. I wasn’t getting the idea during the second half of last year that they were sold on Jacoby Ellsbury as their full time starting CF. I still think (or at least until Crisp was traded today) that he could go in the right deal. That team, after losing Manny, seems to have lost its offensive punch.

This move surprises me.

I still think the Sox are more preoccupied with making longterm decisions with their catcher position and maybe adding a starter (a Lowe or Burnett). I don’t think they’ll weigh in too heavy on Teixeira.

But Ive been wrong before.
A.D.

Guess they just really wanted Crisp out of town
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.
  
  No safety blanket for Ellsbury now.
  - A.D.
    
    nope & with trading Brandon Moss, they’re a bit thin in the OF when JD Drew gets hurt
- http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones
  
  Guess they just really wanted Crisp out of town
  
  What’s the over/under on the “Crisp was a clubhouse cancer” stories coming out of the Boston media and RSPN? 10 hours?
  - Mike Pop
    
    Lol.. “He was just a bad influence in the clubhouse and he threatened Ellisbury with a knife, yes I said it a knife.. Boston had no choice but to trade him”—For Diamondcutters …….etc ..Thas ur line I cant steal it
    - http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones
      
      My sources tell me that Crisp, in addition to getting into a shoving match with the Red Sox special assistant to the traveling secretary, was fond of making cancer jokes to Jon Lester, masturbated in team meetings (often to the point of ejaculation) while describing sexual fantasies about other players wives, and repeatedly undermined the confidence of once-promising prospect Craig Hansen until he eventually became a shell of the dominant lights-out closer he was destined to become. When he was caught stealing a gorilla mask from GM Theo Epstein’s office, Ruben Rivera-style, John Henry finally decided enough was enough.
      
      For Diamond Cutters, I’m Peter Gammons, RSPN.
      - Mike Pop
        
        Your funny as hell dude
        
        Whitey14
        
        Dude, I can’t laugh that hard at work, my employees will know I’m hardly working instead of working hard.
radnom

I’m going to play the devil’s advocate a little bit here and defend this deal on behalf of the Sox.

They traded for perhaps their biggest weakness right now (bullpen) while managing to cut payroll.
They got a very solid late inning guy out of the pen who is not arb. eligible yet and is under their control for 4 more years.
This also gives them a little extra roster flexibility to make a FA run.

I don’t think its as bad of a trade as most people seem to think. I’m not sure how much more they really could have asked for Crisp this off season.
- http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)
  
  in that respect, i don’t disagree.
  
  but here is where i think it was an odd trade:
  
  there are ZERO attractive options on the market for CF. none. nada. zilch. there is the 100 year old Jim Edmonds…after that?
  
  Crisp would probably be the most attractive CFer on the market (unless i am missing someone).
  
  and you just traded him for a reliever.
  - radnom
    
    This is obviously an incredibly difficult question to answer, but what do you think they could have dealt with for?
    
    He would not have fetched a starter that would be good enough to make their rotation.
    
    The only hole they really have in terms of position players is at catcher (you could now argue they are thin in OF but it wouldn’t have made much sense to try to trade him for a different OF).
    
    So really, he could have been traded for
    -Catcher
    -Prospects (middling at best)
    -Not traded, held on to for next season
    
    I’m guessing whatever teams they are considering trading for a catcher from (Texas?) were not interested in Coco, and then out of the other two options, they found Ramirez to be more valuable.
    Personally, I would be a little concerned about Ellsbury taking CF for a whole year, but thats me.
    - Count Zero
      
      I gotta agree with you radnom — we’re talking about Coco Crisp here. The guy who has posted OPS+ of 77, 83, and 93 in a Red Sox uniform, has a career OBP of .331 and steals about as many bases as Bobby Abreu. He almost makes Juan Pierre look attractive.
      
      I would have traded him for a 30 pack of Nattie Light and been happy with the deal. ;-)
- rbizzler
  
  Peter, is that you? j/k
  - radnom
    
    Sorry, my bad, let me correct that.
    
    omfgggggggggggg teh sox are idiotsssssssssssss
    
    How could they trade Crisp for a RELIEVER?!?!?!?!
    
    better?
    - rbizzler
      
      Works for me.
      
      I am personally waiting for the Gammons Spin Machine to paint this as a major coup for Theo and co.
      
      Something along the lines of “The Red Sox see Ramirez as a power arm with closer-type stuff who could eventually take over closer duties should the Sox fail to extend Papelbon.”
      - radnom
        
        “The next Mariano Rivera”
        
        http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones
        
        “The Next Oil Can Boyd”
        
        Shamus
        
        So true.
        
        Can’t wait for ol’ Yellow teeth to come spitting and stammering on Sports Center Lauding and Heralding Theo for making such a ‘Shrewd Deal for the Future’ and blah blah blah.
        
        Lets not forget, they gave up Andy Marte AND Kelly Shoppach (a 3b and MLB C) for Crisp after Damon went exile. I love it. This is almost as bad as the Arroyo/Pena deal.
        
        HA!
        
        http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones
        
        Maybe he thought he was trading for “Nomar” Ramirez.
Ivan

Barring something interesting, really the chances of Gardner or even Melky starting CF is relatively high. I mean there’s not alot in the trade market and gettin a CF might take a couple nice pieces.

Can somebody please tell Francesa that you win with players like Melky and Gardner at CF. Sure they ain’t stars but still you win with them no?
- The Honorable Congressman Mondesi
  
  I think you win despite Melky in CF, and with Gardner it’s yet to be determined.
A.D.

Eh, the Sox bullpen had some real issues last year and this provides them with a solid arm to eat innings out of that pen… and the alternative of a decent mid to back of the rotation prospect may not have been appealing when they have needs now.
Mike Pop

Maybe they have a deal set up with Baldelli already or another outfielder of some kind.. Possibility eh…
- http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)
  
  i thought of this. it’s certainly possible.
RollingWave

according to most of the defensive metrics, DeJesus is horrible CF with the glove, which would explain this move.

I think it’s actually a reasonable move on the Royal’s part too, Ramirez is a generic reliever, while with the way ELIAS crazy player rankings there is a reasonable chance that Coco ends up a B guy or more. plus, the Royal’s closer to contention then most people realize. espically in that division where everyone seem to be having rollercoaster ups and downs from year to year. if they can even improve some more and hopefully catch a good break…
Andy

As you all predicted, Red Sox lovin’ Gammons made it sound as if the Sox pulled of the heist of the century…

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....mons_peter
- http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones
  
  My favorite Gammons spin:
  
  “Crisp had a .392 on-base percentage after the All-Star break this past season and played very well in a season in which he and Jacoby Ellsbury exchanged the roles of starter and extra man because of injuries to J.D. Drew and Manny Ramirez. “
  
  *cough*bullshit*cough*
  *cough*bullshit*cough*
Upstate Dude

This is a good move for the Red Sox. Crisp was a distraction from the point he declared himself not to be a backup. As inconsistent as Ellbury was in his ROOKIE year, the Sox have decided that the CF job is his. Period. Freeing Crisp gives the Sox $5M a year extra to throw at a F/A. Sox have quality 4th outfielders in Carter and Van Every in AAA, but look for them to sign Rhode Island Rocco anyhow. I look at the signing of Ramierez as more of a replacment for Timlin than one for Masterson, whom could easily return to the starting lineup and make an immediate impact. That could depend on if they sign Burnett or not.

In a nutshell, the Sox fixed a weakness in the bullpen and took the wrench out of their engine in Crisp. Screw value in return. All the parts have to work together and Crisp was a spare part that didn’t fit in. Honestly, he just isn’t a clutch guy.

Kudos to him for charging Tampa’s Shields. Even though he made a fool out of himself. it was entertaining.
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