Open Thread: A look at Runs For vs. Runs Against


2008-rf-vs-ra(click image for a larger view)

At BlueSeat Blogs the other day I posted a graph showing the Rangers’ goals for and goals against during the course of the season, which explained why they weren’t able maintain their hot start (their defense came back down to Earth). I thought it would be interesting to see how the Yanks’ season last year shaped up in terms of runs scored and allowed, so click on the above graph and take a closer look. There’s some interesting stuff in there.

The blue is runs the Yanks scored, red the runs they allowed. Note how the offense suffered when A-Rod was on the DL, and how the run prevention improved when Joba was in the rotation. Otherwise here’s your open thread, so talk about the graph or anything else you want. Just don’t be mean.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Manimal says:

    Wow, seems like Arod’s injury and Joba’s transition to the rotation really hurt the yankees.

  2. Brian Cashman is watching says:

    Wow, excellent chart. But how were the runs figured? Average over three days or just each game? If it were each game, I would expect more volatility.

  3. Anthony says:

    To be fair, run prevention also improved dramatically after Wang got hurt.

    • Hobs says:

      Joba owned.

    • 27 this year says:

      i think that is when the offense heated up so there was less pressure on the pitching staff who weren’t expected to be good after losing Wang. Plus, Moose was really heating up at that time. When your offense hits, pitchers don’t have to try and throw a shutout. Anyway, the beginning of the season is not what the Yankees should play like based on their roster. They had a slow start.

      • whozat says:

        “i think that is when the offense heated up so there was less pressure on the pitching staff who weren’t expected to be good after losing Wang.”

        They also replaced Wang with Rasner/Ponson. It’s more likely that Moose really settled in by that point in the season, Joba was throwing full starts, and they found a bullpen mix that worked really well.

  4. Anthony says:

    …but it is pretty interesting.

  5. UWS says:

    Runs against went down when ARod went on DL. Therefore, clearly the pitchers’ suckiness must have been due to ARod’s presence. Ergo, ARod sucks and must go!

  6. Paulie says:

    I have a xbox-360, I can get a PS3 for 339.99 (only for a little while). Should I pull the trigger?

  7. *would love to see a chart for Devils goals for and goals against*


  8. Manimal says:

    I played MLBFOM till midnight yesturday. Lets just say things aren’t going to well in 2009 for the yanks. Where do I begin. Tex, Burnett, Lowe and Manny all signed elsewhere before I get a chance to make any offers, I ended up signing CC and sheets. I traded Nady to the Rangers for some good people. Season starts, and CC, Wang, and Arod all go down with injuries. CC had backspasms, Arod strained his Hammy and Wang strained his oblique. Sheets, Joba, IPK, Hughes and Aceves are NOT doing good (Sheets and Joba have an ERA over 5) and the yankees are in last place, behind the Orioles(who also, got Dice-K in a trade….). Oh did I mention Moose went to the Rockies?

    • Jamal G. says:

      Trying playing with the A’s and their $64M budget, and Eric Chavez’s $11M yearly salary* taking up about 17% of my damn payroll. Do that, then come talk to me about hardships.

      *God damn, I really hate Chavez’s contract.*

      • Manimal says:

        lmao. How long did it take you to actually get things right? It took me like an hour to find out how to do thing

        What sort of online stuff is there, I haven’t really checked it out yet. Would you be in for a RAB league?

        • Jamal G. says:

          Not long. Since the dates were true to life, I pretty much knew what to do.

          I don’t think there’s enough of us to do a league. I think we should just save that for The Show.

          • Do you guys have PS3s or 360s.

            • Manimal says:

              Both. But I got the game for PS3.

              • Ah. I’m getting xbox live for my birthday but which is supposed to be better, the 360 or PS3 version?

                • The Evil Empire says:

                  Especially the online gameplay, PS3 is includes free online gameplay though, but trust me, the Xbox experience is much better

                • The Evil Empire says:

                  PS3 includes*

                • Manimal says:

                  Yeah I agree. Everyone has a headset on Xbox Live, barely anyone on PSN has a headset. Its just better on Xbox live.

                • Jay CT says:

                  I got the game today. I put a solid amount of time in with the Yanks. CC, Tex, Burnett, etc… all signed elsewhere. Lackey was available- signed elsewhere. Chipper signed a 8 year, 27 million per year deal with Toronto. Adam Dunn fot 19 over 5 with Arizona, and then hit .345, 45 homers and 140 RBI’s. Yes, thats crazy. HOWEVER, not as crazy as Ortiz in Boston- try .318, 59 (yes 5-9) hrs, 155 RBI’s. I settled for Penny on a one year deal, he sucked. I let Abreu and Giambi walk. I tried to resign Mussina for a 2 year deal, he left for a 5 year 21 million a year deal with Detroit. After nonteders came out, I signed Either, JJ Hardy and Corey Hart to 4 and 5 year deals, played Nady at first. My lineup was

                  Damon -CF
                  Jeter -SS
                  Hart -RF
                  Arod -3B
                  Posada -C
                  Cano -2B
                  Nady -1B
                  Matsui -DH
                  Either -LF

                  Wang, Penny, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes

                  Record- 47-114

                  Result- Fired

                • Kevin G. says:

                  Wow, those signings don’t sound very realistic.

                • kSturnz says:

                  even worse, there is no Ajax!!

                  I said screw it after chipper and manny signed 7yr deals and i let erryone go; edit a roster, save it and load it through a “fantasy.” will probably try the A’s or Nats after i familiarize myself with it. or marlins

                • kSturnz says:

                  oh yea, xbox reigns supreme

                • SF Yanks says:

                  I have to disagree with you two. The online experience for both the xbox and ps3 are pretty much identical, given the same game, except for the fact that the PS3′s online is free. In my experience, plenty of people have mics. I’ve since sold my xbox to buy a ps triple. I’d take PS3 over xbox any day of the week. But just like you guys had your opinion, this is mine.

  9. Kevin G. says:

    That is interesting. If the everybody stays healthy, the Yankees will do pretty good.

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      If the Cubs get Peavy (which I think will happen soon) its a Yanks-Cubs WS for me. Cubs rotation goes from good to ridiculous with the addition of Peavy. Harden could spend 2 months on the DL and they’d still run away with it. Marmol’s a beast, the lineup gets better with the switch hitting Bradley. That’s just a damn good team.

      BTW-We win, of course. Mostly due to Pinella’s inexplicable decisions. But it goes at least 6, maybe 7 games. One for the ages.

      • Kevin G. says:

        The funny thing is that the team that finishes 3rd in the AL East will probably be better than 1 or 2 of the teams in the playoffs in the NL.

      • Ryan S. says:

        There would be some amazing pitching duels in that world series…

        Sabathia vs. Zambrano
        Chamberlain vs. Peavy
        Wang vs. Harden
        Burnett vs. Dempster

        Yeah, I know Chamberlain pitching the 2nd game is a longshot, but a man can dream dammit.

        • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

          Even with Bradley, they still have a heavily right handed lineup. That’s in part what did them in last year. So I don’t think Andy gets a start. They could def give Joba one start in that series.

          I think the match ups would be:
          Sabathia-Big Z

          Damn, that’s a good series.

          • Ryan S. says:

            I’m curious how Burnett does in October … I’m not sure if he’s ever played before (he was on the DL during the Marlins 2003 run). When Burnett was locked in, he really was one of the best pitchers in the game in 2008. There’s a reason why all the players wanted Cashman to get AJ.

          • Kevin G. says:

            I hated when the Yankees would make a left handed pitcher with an ERA over 5 and make him look like Sandy Koufax last year. But now that the Yankees got rid of Abreu and Giambi (two left handed hitters) and replaced them with Swish and Tex (two switch hitters) it is a much more balanced lineup. The lineup order could possibly go:
            L (or S)

  10. Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

    Narcissist appears on Larry King


    KING: We’re back with Joe Torre. The book is The Yankee Years. You have had some tough stuff to say about Steinbrenner. Here’s a couple quotes: “He would be a tyrant who would second-guess a lot of stuff” that you did. “He was resentful of the credit I got.” “He wanted to scare you in front of other people.” “It drove him nuts when it made sense when I talked to him”. That doesn’t sound like the best –

    TORRE: That’s not saying bad things about him.

    KING: That’s not?

    TORRE: That’s not.

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      NoMaas is just brutal when it comes to Joe. Can’t say he doesn’t deserve it, though.

  11. Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

    Here’s a good question (I stole from another board) for a cold winter’s night.

    Who’s your FAVORITE player on a rival team? One that you like, either as a player or as a person, or both.

  12. Corey says:

    Any ideas on what Sterlings homerun call will be for Teixeira? Swisher?

  13. Ryan S. says:

    Its amazing how much of an impact A-Rod has on this offense. If he stays healthy, this guy will put up another 120/120 season. Tex is good for another 110/110. I mean…if Abreu can score 100 RBIs on the Yankees, Tex can do better, right?

  14. Manimal says:

    WOW, finally.
    iPhone/iPod touch browsers are getting Flash Player.

  15. pat says:

    Question for the people who have the new 2k8 FOM- Is there a way to edit rosters before you start your franchise? Can you start your season with cc, tex, and burnett already on the yankees. Usually sports games have an option from the front menu where you can release and sign guys and force trades and then upload those rosters to use in franchise or dynasty mode.

  16. The Evil Empire says:

    Since this is an open thread, here’s my view on the whole Manny thing:
    I know everyone on this blog hates to see “CASHMAN WHY ARE WE NOT SIGNING MANNY OMFG”
    But let’s look at this from the owner’s perspective, if you spent $400+ Million this off season, would another 75M hurt? I think Manny can be acquired for 3 years, 25M per. After all baseball is a business, face it, our goal is to win the world series in 2009. Anything short of a championship can then be deemed a failure, and if number twenty-seven isn’t acquired in 2009 then we can consider Teixeira’s, CC’s and Burnett’s salaries for 2009 a waste. No?
    The longer Manny stays unemployed, the more attractive he becomes.
    You have to look at this as an investment, we don’t have to pay him 60 of the 75M the first year, because after the first year is when he becomes the most valuable to US. In 2010, we lose Nady, Damon and Matsui. With Manny in the lineup, none of those players become a necessity. Manny can patrol LF and Swisher can be the Right-fielder, CF is open to whoever can perform better than the next man.
    After 2009, the Yankee payroll will shed:
    Matsui___13 Million
    Damon___13 Million
    Nady_____6.5 Million
    Pettite____5.5 Million
    Wang_____5 Million
    Molina____2 Million
    Melky_____1.4 Million
    That’s 46.4 Million, chances are we’ll pick some of these guys back up.
    But you get the point.

    In the end you have to also look at revenues, with Manny in the Bronx ticket sales will sky-rocket, merchandise sales of #99 are going to be huge, and your chances of winning will also increase.

    If we can get him in this bull market for only 3 years then I say “WHY NOT!?”
    2009 line up:
    Damon OF
    A Rod
    Manny OF
    Matsui DH
    Brett OF

    Brett* OF
    A Rod
    Manny OF
    Swisher OF

    I’m home sick this saturday, i guess you can tell

    • Ryan S. says:

      Manny is the type of player you can do crazy things in order to get, and he’s worth it. I’ll leave it at that.

      • kSturnz says:

        i say sure, only if nady is traded. ramirez would have to split LF with sui on the road and take RF at YSIII, If we would attain manuel without trading nady, someone is out of alot of at bats, and for the amt of money we would be paying that some1, that is not good business. even worse business than giving manny a 3/70 deal

        then come ’10, he would have to assume DH role until retirement.

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      “After 2009, the Yankee payroll will shed:
      Matsui___13 Million
      Damon___13 Million
      Nady_____6.5 Million
      Pettite____5.5 Million
      Wang_____5 Million
      Molina____2 Million
      Melky_____1.4 Million”

      Yes, but somebody has to play the OF. If we resign Nady, he’ll cost 10-12 per. Plus, Melky can hang around as a cheap 4th OF type. There’s no guarantee A-Jax is ready next year.

      Wang’s not going anywhere, if anything his pay only increases in Arb. Figure he gets 6-8 next year.

      Maybe Cervelli’s ready to take over for Molina, I’ll give you that one.

      So let’s total this up

      -46.4 coming off
      +19.4 Nady/Wang/Melky
      = -27 mil for next year

      If were done for this year at 198 mil (we are) but you want to backload a deal. Figure he gets a 10 mil signing bonus, 5 mil base pay for 2009. You’d still need about 35 mil for the last 2 seasons of the deal. Which isn’t there.

      Plus, there are always other needs that come up and trades that can be made during the season, which require some payroll space. Manny would eliminate that flexibility.

      • Mike Pop says:

        Agreed. Honestly at this point I think the only way that Manny would fit is if we deal both Nady and Matsui. That is hard to do with Hideki but all in all it would probably be worth it. It doesn’t seem realistic though.

      • Old Ranger says:

        I don’t know guys, his bat is very tempting but, let me tell you about a guy I knew in school.
        This is football but it will dovetail with Manny. We played against one of the best running backs I have ever seen, he had everything; speed, footwork, eyes, anticipation, the big package but, you hit him hard—one time, just once—and he quit on the team. This guy was better then his younger brother (the younger one became an All Star RB in the NFL).
        Everyone (on his team) disliked this guy. After the 2nd year, it seemed like the team would go to sleep when ever he played…in other words…the team quit on him.
        Manny is nothing more then an over payed baby, granted…a very talented one. Do you really want a quitter on your team when things get tough? I have been in a lot of tough sports in my career, I can’t imagine going into a game with a guy that may quit any day, any time.
        Anyhow, that is my reasoning for NO Manny, at any price. I know some of you have written all sorts of excuses for Manny (I’ve read them) but, it is all superfluous rhetoric. The guy quit on his team…with the game on the line…not in any way, is that acceptable!

        • toad says:


          All the stats in the world don’t matter if the guy quits when he feels insulted or something.

          Manny-lovers should ask themselves how they’ll like it when he decides to sit out a series with the Red Sox because of an imaginary injury. How would you feel about that $20-$25 mil a year contract?

        • awayish says:

          how quickly some people judge players by the last 30 seconds. obviously manny is mentally deranged and will randomly assault his new manager in the first 10 days of spring training.

          did i mention he hates puppies too?

      • The Evil Empire says:

        Payroll tends to expand, new sources of revenue, especially if we take it all in 09. There will be money to spend in New York

  17. [...] Ave. Blues posts an interesting graph showing the ups and downs of the Yankees offense and pitching in [...]

  18. David says:

    I guess this graph shows inception to date averages. Ity’s very interresting. I think it would be even better to show running average of say, 5 or 10, games.

  19. [...] Mike showed, the Yankees runs scored vs. runs against was about even for the first half. They made some [...]

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