On the matter of roster depth
ByAs the first month of baseball nears its close, the Yankees have suffered through their fair share of injuries. The team has lost its Opening Day right fielder, its third baseman, its back-up third baseman, its second starter and its setup man.
The injuries don’t stop there though. The team’s DH is playing with balky knees and has already had fluid drained once this season, and the All Star catcher is suffering through a period of sore hamstrings. Johnny Damon, meanwhile, refuses to go for an MRI on his left shoulder because he’s afraid of what he might find. (That is, by the way, the reason why Damon was far less effective in 2007 than in 2006 or 2008. He should just get his injury diagnosed and get better.)
Moving deeper through the system, the Yankees are dealing with even more injuries. On a serious note, Ian Kennedy left his start on Monday with numbness in one of his fingers. He underwent tests on Tuesday and is having more done today. That’s certainly a cause for concern. Numbness in a pitcher’s hand could indicate anything from never damage to muscle and ligament damage to an aneurysm. It’s generally never just nothing.
Furthermore, Jason Johnson is out with a partially torn labrum. He will attempt to rehab the injury and doesn’t need surgery. He says his arm has been sore since Spring Training and probably hurt it after attempting a speedy comeback from his eye surgery.
For the most part, Kennedy and Johnson haven’t really been on Yankee fans’ collective radar. Kennedy is less than popular in the Bronx after displaying poor results and what many perceived as an undeservedly arrogant attitude last year. While some bloggers have noted his strong start this season, the Yanks clearly viewed Kennedy as 7th on the starting pitching depth chart.
Johnson, 35 and a veteran of eight Major League teams, was a pure and simple insurance policy. The Yanks signed him to hold down a rotation spot and be that eighth starter. With his injury, either Al Aceves would have to step up and step in or the unimaginable would happen: Kei Igawa would be called in to pitch in the Bronx if another starter goes down.
This medical report, then, is just my way of arriving a baseball truism: There is no such thing as too much depth. When everyone is healthy, the Yankees have a solid Major League bench, a stacked pitching rotation and some promising young kids and cagey veterans waiting in the wings. When people start to go down, the team looks thin indeed.
With Xavier Nady shelved, Ramiro Peña starting at third, with Phil Hughes thrust into the rotation by April’s end, with two empty rotation spots in Scranton, the back end of the Yankees’ depth chart is looking weak indeed. How the Yankees cope with these absences and how the team fills in holes at the bottom of the depth chart may actually speak louder to Brian Cashman‘s ability as a GM than the obvious signings of A.J. Burnett, CC Sabathia and Mark Teixeira.
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Spring Training Countdown
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So perhaps Kontos comes up to AAA, and WDLR or Bliech get the call to AA
Horne is also supposed to start on Saturday, but we don’t know at which level just yet. He could go right to AAA, or Kontos could move up and Horne could go to AA for a bit.
The point isn’t really who is next in line. The point is that the line looks a lot shorter after one or two guys go down.
Cashman is such an idiot for not having Roy Halladay and Jake Peavey as his 9th and 10th starters. What a moron! Fire him NOW!!!
If Theo had 200 mill to burn…..
Theo doesn’t need 200 mill to put together championship teams.
He only needs 150 mil.
Yeah, his off season acquisitions look great early. Penny has an 8.66 ERA, Saito has a 5.14 ERA, Baldelli is on the DL and Smoltz hasn’t thrown a pitch.
If Cashman had made those moves, he’d have been burned in effigy, but Theo made them, so they must be good. NOT!!
Theo doesn’t need 200 mill to put together championship teams.
Nope. He just needs the good fortune of winning the American League during the years that the shitty Cardinals and shitty Rockies won the National League.
People seem to forget sometimes that not only did we win 4 titles in 5 years (which is friggin amazing) but we almost won two more (vs. Arizona in ’01 and Florida in ’03) and we would have similarly slaughtered the Cardinals in ’04 if Jeff Weaver hadn’t been such a shitty pitcher…
What does Weaver have to do with the ’04 Yankees?
Sorry, brainfart. Typing Weaver, thinking Kevin Brown.
Kei Igawa would now be next in line to pitch in the Bronx if another starter goes down.
I’m guessing they go with Hacker or Aceves (despite his struggles) since they are both on the 40 man.
Yeah. You’re right. It’s Aceves. I corrected the post. I keep forgetting about him. After his showing in Spring Training, I’m not sure how comfortable I am with that idea either.
Yankees current starting pitching depth chart (with CMW, IPK, and Johnson out):
1-CC
2-Burnett
3-Joba
4-Pettitte
5-Hughes
————
6-Al Aceves
7-Eric Hacker
8-Christian Garcia?
9-Brett Tomko (would require a 40-man move)
10-Kei Igawa (would require a 40-man move)
I’d say (just my speculation) we may give Garcia a call in a super-emergency before going to Tomko or Igawa, since Garcia’s already on the 40-man. I mean, he is healthy at this moment…
Thoughts?
From a 40-man perspective, that’s probably right. Eric Hacker has just one start above AA though.
They could dump Steven Jackson soon. He’s 27, and Girardi seemingly made a point not to use him this week.
Probably true. I was hoping that we’d be able to spin this glut of bullpen arms into something of value, but it looks like they’re destined to be sacrificed to the vagary of roster crunches.
And while neither Garcia nor Hacker have established themselves at the AAA level yet, they certainly wouldn’t be the first kids jumped up for an emergency spot start at the big league.
But, all this is probably moot. We still have Aceves, and CMW is likely to be back in the depth chart soon. He’s not hurt and unavailable, just screwed up and out of whack.
Yeah, I think it’s pretty clear the Mexican Gangster would be the next SP in line, assuming he continues to have better outings at SWB …
That’s the negative scary thing about this team for us fans. Only 20 games in Wang is hurting, X is out, I just hope Arod comes back completely healthy. If A.J. goes down(WHICH HE WON’T CUZ I SAYS SO) it could be scary putting IPK back in the rotation. I still have faith in him but we could be put in a bad spot. Hopefully Wang is back in a couple of weeks and we won’t have that problem in the rotation. Main thing Cash needs to do here – trade for a viable CF who won’t cost too much talent. Obv Mike Cameron has been tossed around. Shoulda signed teh O-Dog to play CF!!11!!!
The question becomes what depth can you afford to trade for Cameron? Tommie finally sold me on the idea of adding him, but my thought was that the Yanks would deal from the pitching surplus. With Kennedy, Johnson, and Wang all down, that seriously depreciates the depth/surplus that they would have to deal from. They obviously want to protect themselves from further injuries in the pitching rotation (nervously looking at AJ).
My envisioned Cameron deal was always a Melky for Cameron swap with a reliever or two thrown in. It never really included starting pitching.
I figured that the Brewers would be interested in Melky for Cameron straight up since Melky’s much cheaper but can immediately fill the CF void created in Cameron’s absence (and they can live with the diminished production since they’re not going anywhere anyway.)
If they need Veras or Edwar or SteJax or something like that throw in to sweeten the pot, I’m 100% okay with that. Our reliever logjam us probably worse than our starter logjam, as evidenced by the fact that we just released Hungry Hungry Humberto. In fact, the fact that Melky’s on a mini-tear right now makes this deal a tick more possible… we could sell high on him now.
Melky and Veras for Cameron and a non-40-man relief arm (I’m thinking of like a Kanekoa Texeira Pt. II).
Win-win.
I wonder if the Yankees will consider converting Brett Tomko back to being a starter, he’s been decent in relief and had a few good outings in spring training.
In regard to Nady, I’m not sure why they dont bring in Jim Edmonds. I know, he is a lefty, but that is really not such a big deal considering that they play in a park that caters to lefties. Worst case, he stinks and you cut him. Best case, he starts in CF until A-Jax is ready. I would look at Jenkins and Catalanatto for the bench as well.
Both Edmonds and Catalanotta are dredful against left handed pitching, which is what we need. Bringing in two guys who can’t hit lefties would be pointless. Plus pinstripes don’t match Edmonds’ walker.
plus he is tool old to be mobile enough to play a good defensive cf on a full time or even large parttime basis i would bet
Its not pointless when you dont have anyone on the bench who can hit anybody. When Nady comes back, then you would have one lefty and one right bat on the bench.
Edmonds’ defense in center was dreadful last year, so I’m not sure that’s a good solution. Though I do like that left-handed swing off the bench a lot better than Melky/Gardner.
Question would be, can Edmonds still play CF.
Answer would be, no.
Age is a shame. Loved watching him on the Cardinals.
At this point, with Damon’s shoulder already barking (they need to force him to get checked out, for chrissake), they could use some corner OF depth too. Ideally someone that can hit lefties, tho. Maybe you bring in Edmonds to give you leverage while you go look at someone from the Rockies? With Fowler lighting it up, it shouldn’t be hard to convince them they’ve got extra depth there.
No, but when he’s in. Swish can play CF once a week, no?
Maybe. But not very well. I mean…who do we drop from the roster to get Jim Edmonds in there? Gardner? Melky? Go with a 6-man bullpen? Up to now, that 7th pitcher has been more needed than Jim Edmonds, I feel.
At this point, I’d probably keep Melky over Gardner.
I’d certainly look into offering him a minor league deal, make Damon get the MRI, and then consider DLing him if it’ll help him get healthier after heading into the scoreboard at Fenway. I mean, Johnny…repeating your 2007 wouldn’t help anyone.
Once either Hideki or Damon goes down with an injury, that’s when I’ll endorse bringing Edmonds or F-Cat on board. Right now, they’re both just superfluous.
They’re the wrong kind of depth: the kind that only does the things we already do and wouldn’t fill in at the holes we need filling.
Ok, but if they’d take a minor league deal, I’m not going to sweat Todd Linden getting fewer reps in the OF to get Edmonds playing time in the AAA OF.
While this is true, I imagine if Jim Edmonds was willing to take a minor league deal he probably would have already.
He’s waiting for a team to lose a corner outfielder to injury and have a hole he can fill from day one. Jim Edmonds is 39. He doesn’t want to have to take a road trip to play the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs.
Would Brett slip through waivers?
Gardner has options, he doesn’t have to be passed through waivers.
Doubtful, Some team out of contention can afford to try him out for a bit and see what they can get.
That’s what I thought. I got confused if taking him off the 40 man would mean he has to get through waivers. Not too good with that stuff yet. I mean, I’d rather have Jim Edmonds on the team than Brett. Melky or Swish can play CF when you have Edmonds playing left or right.
I know defense is a ugge part of the game, but I don’t know how much more of BG I can take.
Wait, when did we start talking about taking Gardner off the 40-man? Getting him off the 40-man would require passing him through waivers. Someone’d probably take him.
I was talking about sending him to AAA to make room on the 25-man roster for a hypothetical Edmonds acquisition.
Also, “Defense is a uuuge part of the game,” but it’s not clear that Gardner is actually providing plus defense. People assumed he could because he’s fast, but that has not been borne out by his performance. Sure, he made that really great looking catch on Giambi’s ball, but it’s not clear that his D is a plus in the general case. In fact, the early numbers this season suggest he’s NOT doing so well out there.
Once again, I’m not too good with that. My bad, yo. I got confused for a sec, cause Edmonds has to get on the 40 is he was signed. Also, by saying Gardner isn’t as good on defense out there, isn’t that even more of a case to bring in Edmonds?
You keep making this argument, but who do we have who does what Edmonds does? We dont have a left handed bat off the bench. No one is arguing that he should start.
We have lefties that play average-or-worse D and struggle a bit (or more than a bit) against lefties. Adding another one to the bench doesn’t strengthen an area of need.
Meh, to be frank, I may take my chances with Juan Miranda over Jim Edmonds.
Yeah, Miranda can’t play the OF, but… neither can Edmonds.
http://www.instantrimshot.com
But let’s walk through it, sure. Let’s send Gardner down and DFA, oh, SteJax to add Edmonds right onto the 25-man. 12-man pitching staff, 4 man bench.
Starters (before Nady returns)
C-Posada (S)
1B-Tex (S)
2B-Cano (L)
3B-ARod (R)
SS-Jeter (R)
LF-Damon (L)
CF-Melky (S)
RF-Swisher (S)
DH-Matsui (L)
Backup C-Molina (R)
UTI-Pena (R)
UTI-Berroa (R)
4th OF-Edmonds (L)
And, when Nady comes back, he takes Berroa’s spot.
Yeah, I guess. I could be talked into it. You broke, me, Moshe. But here’s the thing: it’s all dependent on Melky being serviceable at CF as a switch hitter. Putting him in there instead of the lefty Gardner makes the lineup slightly less lefty heavy and thus, more amenable to adding Edmonds.
Of course, if we trade Melky for Cameron, we can do this:
Scenario B:
Starters (before Nady returns)
C-Posada (S)
1B-Tex (S)
2B-Cano (L)
3B-ARod (R)
SS-Jeter (R)
LF-Damon (L)
CF-Cameron (R)
RF-Swisher (S)
DH-Matsui (L)
Backup C-Molina (R)
UTI-Pena (R)
4th OF/pinchrunner/late inning Damon replacement- Gardner (L)
PH-Miranda (L)
We still get a good lefty bat off the bench but also get a basestealing pinchrunner and have 4 good defensive outfielders (Damon/Cammy/Swish/Gardner) instead of just 3 in the other scenario. And, when Nady comes back, we can send Miranda down and have a righty/lefty DH/PH platoon in Nady/Matsui.
Scenario B >>> Scenario A
Listen, if we could get Cameron, I would do it in a second. I think with the current options, we have to deal with Melky in Cf and Edmonds would be our best choice off the bench.
Why not have Edmonds or Cat for depth on the bench?
This past weekend proved that there bench is really limited.
Bo, I love how you come in after the issue is debated and agreed upon and ask a rhetorical question to nobody that adds nothing to the conversation.
Bravo.
I’ve had Cash’s back more than not on previous issues, but pitching rostering is not one of those. Does he require film of Ramiro Mendoza or — on a definitely lesse level — Aaron Small to realize what a “pitcher” can be if they hide his category away in a safe place. Wasn’t Tomko indicating he could rate consideration in this, er, non-category. This and the fact that the roster is clumsy in other ways (no smooth sub slots on the bases whenever hideki/jorge/jose are theron lodged) is an asspain. As for pitching, how about considering arms that can last more innings, perhaps freeing up another position slot in the process?
Just a little note: Hideki Matsui’s knee was not drained, he was given a cortisone shot.
http://tinyurl.com/c2krff
Huh. Weird. I was going on the Cashman/Girardi report. I didn’t realize Matsui had ever disputed it.
Yeah, it turned my head the other day as well. It seems odd that whoever delivered the message to Cashman and Girardi could have made such an error.
Might’ve been a change the doctors made after looking at the knee on the day of. He goes in with the intention of getting the swelling down by draining, and the doctors are like “hey, you know…looking at it now, I think it would respond well to a cortisone shot, and that’d be less invasive,” so he chats with the trainers and they decide to do it. But Cash and Girardi are reporting the last thing they heard, which was that he went in to have the fluid drained.
As in, I’m sure they know NOW what Matsui had done, but has anyone had cause to ask them since they talked to them on the day he went in for treatment?
I don’t believe so. The report of the Cashman-Girardi duo saying it was a knee drainage came out April 20th, and the report of Matsui disputing such claim and saying it was a cortisone shot came out the 22nd. According to my knowledge, there has not been a report on the matter since.
Why does Girardi refuse to tell the truth about injuries?
Because telling the truth about injuries to the press or the fans doesn’t help the Yankees win ballgames. He doesn’t give a crap if we know the truth about how hurt Hideki is, and I don’t blame him… we don’t really matter in this instance.
I used to pitch and suffered through a summer of numbness in my pitching hand, turned out to be just a slipped disk in my upper back that was restricting blood flow. I quick trip to the chiro is all that was needed. Lets hope Kennedy is the same.
Also, whatever Matsui had done is working, he looks balanced at the plate, and looks to have his legs back for now.
Indeed.
IETC
Anybody have any word on Teix’s hand. Is that completely healed, or is he dealing with some pain? Are the Yanks being hush, hush about this, or is it really not an issue? Do you guys have info on this.
From what I see, I think it could be effecting him. But, I like long fly balls rather than his weak pop-ups earlier in the year. Maybe it’s good and he’s starting to come out of his April funk.
The armchair webmd docs come out of the woodwork now.
dude, do you go into every post asking yourself how cna i be the most obnoxious guy on these boards?
we could always sign Sheets to a rehab deal, or vote for pedro
I won’t vote for Pedro.
not unless its time machine pedro from mid-late 90s
Heh.
Backlash was pretty badass, no?
whatd i miss? its hard to watch the ppv esp since theres no where near me that shows em. on staten there’s a bar called sharkys that has them on all these big screens for 10 bucks but alas, no such utopia where i am now
OH, IF ONLY WE’D SIGNED BRAD PENNY!!!!
But we didn’t because Cashman isn’t as smart as Theo.
/sarcasm
Wang and IPK notwithstanding, I’m far less concerned right now about pitching depth than I am about position player depth.
Given that the team has chosen to go with a 13 man pen, it’s a 3 man bench. The roster features 2 guys who are close to offensive zeros (Pena and Molina), one guy who is an all-around zero (Berroa), three aged veterans who are either coming off injuries, battling current injuries, or both (Damon, Matsui, Posada), and 2 CFers who may or may not contribute at anything better than replacement level.
That’s 75% of the position players on the roster, and that’s without even addressing the 35 year old Jeter, the slow-starting Tex, and the maybe-slumping Swisher.
The A-Rod and Nady injuries have exposed the lack of position player depth at the upper levels of the minors. Even with his lack of power, I thought Russo could be a good utility guy, but I haven’t seen him back in the box scores since he got hurt a few weeks back.
Why not leverage some of the bullpen depth to swing a deal for a more reliable utility player, or a spare outfielder who can hit. This could create more permanent spots for the likes of Melancon and Robertson in the pen, perhaps give more 40 man flexibility if it’s a 2 for 1 type swap, and even give the pen more flexibility if they can flip an optionless pitcher like Veras.
The lack of position players in the minors is a pretty big problem. We need a 3b and we come up with Berroa and Ransom. There is one only real talent at AAA. Maybe they’ll give him the CF shot soon.
I really like the position player depth at the lower levels and the pitching depth at all levels. How much of that ever pans out remains to be seen.
I don’t think that Ransom and Berroa would have been as much of a problem had the roster been constructed with a more viable back-up IFer to begin with. Then you’d be looking at that guy at 3B and Ransom or Berroa as the utility guy while Pena is given the time he needs to develop at AAA. Maybe EDunc would be a good option had he not been rushed along.
I’m not for rushing AJax. He’s moved pretty quickly the last couple of years. Give him a full year at AAA. Give Melky and Gardner more than 20 games to prove they can’t do the job.
Should signed have signed manny and traded nady when we had the chance…
Shouda signed have signed manny and traded nady when we had the chance..
What offers were there for Nady?
I’ll throw this out as food for thought…
2010
1B – Teixera
2B – Cano
SS – Jeter/?
3B – Rodriguez
C – Posada
DH –
RF – Swisher
CF – Jackson
LF – Jeter/?
SP – Sabathia
SP – Chamberlain
SP – Wang
SP – Burnett
SP – Hughes
2011
SP1 Sabathia
SP2 Chamberlain
SP3 Hughes
SP4 Burnett
SP5 FA/Kennedy/Betances/Brackman
1B Teixera
2B Cano
SS Pena/FA/?
3B Rodriguez
C Posada/Romine
DH Montero/Posada
RF Swisher
CF Jackson
LF Jeter
LINEUP
1. Jackson CF
2. Swisher RF
3. Teixera 1B
4. Rodriguez 3B
5. Cano 2B
6. Montero DH
7. Jeter LF
8. Posada/Romine C
9. Pena SS
To me the key is Montero and Romine getting to AA by the end of the season. We need to know what AJax can do this year to plan for next year too. This way they don’t waste money on Holliday (product of Coors) plus they need to keep an OF spot open for Jeter in either 2010 or 2011 (when he’ll sign his next contract). Pitching options will be there to ease the losses of Pettitte and Wang. But they will have to get younger. Also in another two months or so – we need a decision on what Gardner and Melky’s future is. I like Gardner as a 4th OF, PR (Dave Roberts/Homer Bush type). Melky to me is a rising stock right now – and the Yanks should sell high and maybe turn him into a bullpen arm.
Thoughts???
Is Sergio Mitre in extended Spring Training yet?
[...] be treated with with some good old fashioned drugs. PeteAbe has the news (3:50pm update). Kennedy left Monday’s start with numbess in one of his fingers on his pitching hand, and was sent to New York for tests. The wiki entry [...]
You can watch on demand.
They archive all the games shortly after they have been played and watch them at any time. The DVR allows you to pause the game while it is live. Also, I found that if you are watching a game and the connection goes bad, it will pause the game at the point for you and restart it when the connection comes back.