Apr
22

Mattingly training to succeed Joe, but which one?

By

Seeing Don Mattingly — and Joe Torre too, for that matter — in a Dodgers uniform is still rather jarring. I grew up watching and idolizing Mattingly in the Yankee pinstripes, and he just looks wrong in another uniform.

For now, though, all we can do is sit back and protest silently. When the Yankees opted for Joe Girardi over Don Mattingly in the fall of 2007, they picked their man and stuck with it. Mattingly went west with Joe Torre, and he continues to train for a managerial position. Which one, though, remains a mystery.

In a ridiculously platitude- and green tea-laden article about how relaxed and appreciated Torre is with the Dodgers, L.A. Times scribe Bill Shaikin tackles that very issue. Number 23′s return to the Bronx isn’t quite as far-fetched as it may seem. Shaikin writes:

Torre and the Dodgers have a mutual interest in grooming hitting coach Don Mattingly as his successor. Mattingly coached for Torre in New York, then followed him to L.A. “When it’s time for Joe not to manage the club, we would like his replacement to be on our staff,” General Manager Ned Colletti said.

If the Yankees do not return to the playoffs — after spending $423 million on Mark Teixeira, CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett — we cannot imagine Manager Joe Girardi will be invited back. The Yankees selected Girardi over Mattingly as the replacement for Torre, and perhaps they’ll ask their beloved first baseman for a do-over.

Mattingly, who has no managerial experience, said Torre has promised him nothing. “I feel like he’s helping me prepare,” Mattingly said, “but I don’t know if that’s necessarily for here. I liked it in New York. I like it here. I like the game.”

Every the diplomat, Mattingly refused in that last quote to say where he would want to manage, but it’s not hard to read between the lines. There’s little doubt in my mind that if he had his druthers, Mattingly would be sitting on that bench in new Yankee Stadium right now trying to lead the Yanks to World Series Championship number 27.

Maybe he should have been hired after all last year as the symbolic choice to lead the Yankees into the new stadium, but the Yanks went a different path. Shaikin is right though in leaving that question of Mattingly’s future open-ended. Joe Girardi is under contract for this year and next. Missing October with this team could very well mean his job, and Mattingly would be a logical candidate.

So from 3000 miles away, I hope Joe Torre is doing a good job training Mattingly. As long as he leaves the bullpen management lessons up to someone else, one of baseball’s’ potential managers-in-waiting couldn’t have a better teacher.

Categories : Front Office
  • jsbrendog

    one of my biggest fears is that torre teaches him everything he knows and in a yr, 2 yrs, whenever mattingly becomes the manager i have to come here to a game recap thread and write:

    /torre’d about a bullpen arm….nightmares…

    • jsbrendog

      and by biggest fear i mean not really a fear at all

      • http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00mwbIM15ofMv/340x.jpg Mike Pop

        Next thing ya know, Melancon is the next Scott Proctor.

        • jsbrendog

          shut yo mouf!

        • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          Dude, I just barfed in my mouth a little.

  • pete c.

    The worst part about Mattingly in a dodger uni, is he’s wearing #8. In “honor” of Yogi, I wonder if he even asked Yogi if that’s ok? I gotta think somewhere Jackie Robinsons’ laughing his ass off. all I can think of is Berra going balistic when the ump called Robinson safe after he stole home.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      Well, Robinson was probably tagged out but Yogi stepped into the batters box before the ball crossed the plate so Jackie was safe. I just read that passage in Allen Barra’s so-far excellent bio of Yogi (which I’ll review when I’m done).

    • Andy In Sunny Daytona

      I think that it’s stupid that managers and coaches even wear numbers.

      • http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00mwbIM15ofMv/340x.jpg Mike Pop

        If Donnie comes back, will he wear 23?

        • Chris C.

          Was Mattingly even invited to the closing of the old Stadium, and this year’s opening day?

          • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

            He’s the hitting coach of a MLB team on the opposite coast of NY. Scheduling conflicts say “Hi!”

            • Chris C.

              That wasn’t the question…….the question was, “Was he invited?”

              Let Donnie turn the invite down due to a scheduling conflict. It’s April, and he’s the hitting coach…….I’m pretty sure the Dodgers would have let him attend, so “scheduling conflict” is horsecrap. He should at least have been invited.

              • Jack

                I’m pretty sure the Dodgers would have let him attend

                Why?

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                The answer to your question of

                “Was he invited?”

                is

                “We don’t know, likely won’t ever know, don’t care, and shouldn’t care, because this isn’t an issue for anybody but you, Chris C.”

                ———–

                Is Donnie calling up Buster Olney saying “Oh, I would have loved to have come but the bastard Yankee front office snubbed me and told me I wasn’t welcome!” No, he’s not. The invite issue is moot, because nobody is raising a stink about it. If Donnie wasn’t “invited”, he probably isn’t slighted by it because he knows the invitation would have been a moot invitation because he has a conflict.

                THIS IS A NON-ISSUE. NOBODY CARES. NOBODY IS COMPLAINING. DONNIE’S NOT OFFENDED. THE YANKEES ARE NOT OFFENDED. THE ONLY PERSON OFFENDED IS YOU, BECAUSE YOU GET OFFENDED AT THE SHIT YOU MAKE UP IN YOUR HEAD.

                • jsbrendog

                  +1

                • Chris C.

                  Listen, jackass…….I brought it up because the thread is about whether Mattingly would manage the Yankees in the future if given the opportunity. I didn’t make a big deal about it…..I just raised the question. And I didn’t pull it out of the air……it was brought up by several people on talk radio, and it is certainly valid.

                  And if he wasn’t invited to the Stadium closing or opening, when other former players were, that may be an indication that the Yankees have moved on from including Mattingly in the Yankee family, despite his many quality years in the uniform.

                  As far as telling Buster Olney, I don’t think Mattingly is the kind of guy who would make a public stink about it, but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t feel slighted.

                  Yankee fans “shouldn’t care” if Don Mattingly wasn’t invited to the closing ceremony they had last year? Give me a break. Maybe the ones who became fans in 1996 wouldn’t care, but I know alot of people who were bothered that he wasn’t there……or that Torre wasn’t in any of the videos, and it was an “innocent slight that went unnoticed”.

                  Stop blindly defending anything Yankee.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  And I didn’t pull it out of the air……it was brought up by several people on talk radio, and it is certainly valid.

                  99.99999999999999999% of the shit brought up by several people on talk radio is not only incredibly invalid, but also horrendously retarded.

                  The fact that “they were talking about it on talk radio” does not mean the discussion has merit.

                  Stop blindly defending anything Yankee.

                  I’ll stop blindly defending anything Yankee when you stop irrationally and falsely attacking everything Girardi and Cashman and Steinbrenner.

                • Chris C.

                  I’ll stop blindly defending anything Yankee when you stop irrationally and falsely attacking everything Girardi and Cashman and Steinbrenner.

                  Everything I bring up regarding Girardi is valid. You can spin it any way you want, champ. And when he exits after this season, then you can talk all you want about how you always knew he wasn’t the right guy for the job.

                  I’m higher on Cashman than Girardi.

                  And Steinbrenner is just a big wallet. This notion of him as a “team builder” is nonsense. His team-building skills drove the organization into the ground by 1990, and they would have remained there had he not been suspended. You know this is true.

                • jsbrendog

                  http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-342397

                  His constantly changing bullpen pitchers to save arms and his ulta-reliance on Hawkins did him in. And he seemd to lose alot of the players with his silly pettiness.

                  your comments show you obviously have no idea what you are talking about and are willing to change your argument to suit you as you go along. now,m as evidenced above since I am calling you out you wil resort to name calling.

                  http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-342483

                  Listen, jackass…….

                  Everything I bring up regarding Girardi is valid

                  this is the falsest statement so far of this thread.

                • Chris C.

                  “99.99999999999999999% of the shit brought up by several people on talk radio is not only incredibly invalid, but also horrendously retarded.”

                  I’m sorry, but if the thread is about whther Mattingly would come back to manage if given the opportunity, I do no think that how he is treated, good or bad, but the organization when he departs is invalid or retarded.

              • jsbrendog

                you’re pretty sure cause you’re boys with the dodgers front office? or you have no idea and are just speculating and your guess makes no sense why a team owuld allow their coach to miss gametime for which he is paid to go to a potential different employer for a ceremony?

                • Chris C.

                  “you’re pretty sure cause you’re boys with the dodgers front office? or you have no idea and are just speculating and your guess makes no sense why a team owuld allow their coach to miss gametime for which he is paid to go to a potential different employer for a ceremony?”

                  Whether he’d have been granted permission to attend or not is besides the point. He still should have been invited. That’s all I’m saying. If he was, fine. If he wasn’t, that’s wrong. And since we’re talking about whether he’d come back to manage here or not, there’s certainly a possibility that things like that could be a factor.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Whether he’d have been granted permission to attend or not is besides the point. He still should have been invited. That’s all I’m saying. If he was, fine. If he wasn’t, that’s wrong. And since we’re talking about whether he’d come back to manage here or not, there’s certainly a possibility that things like that could be a factor.

                  Fine.

                  But until you have a single reason to believe he wasn’t invited, this is all moot idle speculation that you’re unfairly using to smear the club by accusing them of a boorish, rude, childish snub that you have NOT A SINGLE WHIT OF EVIDENCE to backup.

                  Your question has merit. But it only has merit AFTER there is some evidence to indicate it’s merit.

                • Chris C.

                  “But until you have a single reason to believe he wasn’t invited, this is all moot idle speculation that you’re unfairly using to smear the club by accusing them of a boorish, rude, childish snub that you have NOT A SINGLE WHIT OF EVIDENCE to backup.”

                  My original post is was…..”Was Mattingly invited to the closing of the old Stadium, and this year’s opening day?”

                  I don’t have any evidence either way that he was or wasn’t invited, nor did I claim to.
                  And that certainly is not “smearing the club”, so get over yourself.

                  I know you like to refer to the Yankees as “we”, so maybe that’s why you sound like the team’s attorney.

                • jsbrendog

                  tjsc: “stop making stuff up about the yankees as you have throughout most of your posts in many threads”

                  team’s attorney: “we have no plans to reduce ticket prices and they will be raised 4% next year. I AM A ROBOT!”

                • Chris C.

                  Your question has merit. But it only has merit AFTER there is some evidence to indicate it’s merit.

                  What kind of bullshit is that? A question that has merit ALWAYS has merit, regardless of any evidence to support the answer either way.

                  We may not know what the answer is, but we do know that it is either “no” or “yes”.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          No. He’ll wear #21.

        • A.D.

          Presumably yes, he wore it as a coach, and retired numbers can be worn by the player it was retired for.

  • A.D.

    The main problem is if Mattingly becomes too much like Torre, luckily I think the success of the Rays, Marlins, and even the youth of the Dodgers is opening more old-school managers’s eyes to stop favoring veterans.

    • Andy In Sunny Daytona

      I don’t think that the Marlins or the Rays had any choice about going with youth over veterans.
      Going with young players is a great idea if you have young players who are good.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Agreed.

        Torre plays Ethier and Kemp and Loney because they were established before he got there.

        He plays Kershaw and Billingsley and McDonald and Broxton because they have no alternative, his owner is broke and won’t go sign Jon Garland or Brian Fuentes or something else ridiculous to appease Torre’s “proven veteran” fetish.

      • A.D.

        They didn’t have any choice, they were obviously forced into it as a cost measure, however they have still had success, which has gotten them attention & shown that not only vets get it done.

        • Andy In Sunny Daytona

          But, when the Rays realized they needed a DH this offseason, did they go with a young guy from Durham? No, they signed Pat Burrell. Sometimes you need veterans.
          I’m with you A.D. Youth is great, when it’s good.

  • jon

    I love Mattingly but

    girardi is heads above torre as far as managerial talent goes, I’m not sure that donny would be able to replace his level of skill by learning from torre

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      I’m not quire sure that Girardi is heads above Torre in the managerial talent department. Torre had his faults, but we can’t lose sight of the fact that Torre is a Hall of Fame manager and one of the Yanks’ most successful managers of all time. Girardi’s got a ways to go in that regard.

      • jon

        With no managerial experience I’m pretty sure I could have won at least 2 world series with the team torre had between 96 and 00

        • http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00mwbIM15ofMv/340x.jpg Mike Pop

          I’m not going to argue that Torre wasn’t a great manager, because that isn’t fair considering his success. But like been said before, I do think that it depends on the players and the coach/manager can’t change the team’s success if the players aren’t talented enough or willing to change the way they play. Sometimes they just don’t care enough. Look at Larry Brown, was he a great coach? Yes, but then he went to the Knicks and failed and he’s made the Bobcats a bit better but not much. Will Flip Saunders succeed in Washington? He should with the 3 key players he has..but this is about baseball. I mean Lou Pinella is the man as a manager but he didn’t do jack with the Rays mainly because they had no real talent on that roster to compete.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          With no managerial experience I’m pretty sure I could have won at least 2 world series with the team torre had between 96 and 00

          … and with managerial experience, Torre won four titles.

          So, Torre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you

          • Chris C.

            “With no managerial experience I’m pretty sure I could have won at least 2 world series with the team torre had between 96 and 00″

            Well, considering when he took over they hadn’t won any, I think you’re talking out of your hat.
            It’s not like he took over the Chicago Bulls after their 3rd championship in the 90′s.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside
            • jsbrendog

              in which case he wouldve lost because he didnt have michael jordan anymore. and the rockets still would have won

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.

        • Rich

          That’s big talk of you. What success have you had in your professional life to convince me you’d be a good manager of anything, let alone a baseball manager.

          • jon

            I wasn’t trying to talk up my abilities as a manager but rather the level of talent on the yankees during those years.

            • Chris C.

              Level of talent is not the main reason they won…….they won because they had alot of hungry ballplayers who knew how to work counts, manufacture runs, and were almost all playing for their future big payday.

              The teams of this decade had already cashed in, and were just fat and happy.

              The 1996 Atlanta Braves were no less talented than the Yankees that season. They had 3 surefire Hall of Famers on their starting staff alone, and were the defending WS champs! And THAT championship led to the others, because the playes bought into Joe Torre!

              • steve (different one)

                thank you for finally revealing what the “C” means in your name, “Cliche”.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                This could not possibly be more wrong.

                • Chris C.

                  Yup, you’re right. Joe Torre was just lucky. That was it. And it was a total shock to the way the world operates that a guy with so much managerial skill like Girardi would miss the playoffs for the first time in 13 years.

                  A 220 million dollar club misses the playoffs due to injuries. Brilliant. When Girardi’s looking for other jobs, he probably shouldn’t use that as an excuse when defending that season to other team owners.

                • jsbrendog

                  see below to prove all of your points are wrong and the reason the yankees didnt make the playoffs is because of terrible starting pitching and terrible yrs by some of the MOST IMPORTANT MEMBERS OF THE OFFENSE

    • Hobbes

      What exactly makes Mattingly a qualified managerial prospect? Other than his being all of our favorite player growing up? I have wanted Girardi as manager since he left the team. He is just what Torre was before he lost his mind about the bullpen, and decided that number of rings trumped talent.

      • jsbrendog

        this is a good point i feel ppl overlook. what does mattingly possess that qualifies him to be a manager? joe morgan was a great player…but well, we all know how good his team would do…they just need to learn to concetrate

      • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

        +1

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        What exactly makes Mattingly a qualified managerial prospect? Other than his being all of our favorite player growing up?

        Well, Hensley “Bam Bam” Meulens was an awesome player that we all loved, and now he’s an amazing manager who singlehandedly lead the Netherlands to a totally dominating victory over the Dominicans in the WBC.

    • Chris C.

      “I love Mattingly but girardi is heads above torre as far as managerial talent goes….”

      Right. And Bobby Valentine had more baseball talent coming out of high school than Mickey Mantle did. That’s been said as well.

      “I’m not sure that donny would be able to replace his level of skill by learning from torre”

      What nonsense. Mattingly should have been the manager here succeeding Torre. But the Yankees think this is football, and they wanted someone that looks like a bulldog. That shit never works. Instead, they got some jouvenile who removes vending machines from the clubhouse. And Girardi’s bullpen handling is way overhyped. It was a big reason why they didn’t make the postseason last year, and he’s already flubbed a few moves and the season’s only two weeks old. This guy is not the answer, and may not make it to 2010. Managerial talent? What, he LOOKS like a manager?

      • Andy In Sunny Daytona

        Yeah Mattingly would have been a great manager last year……….if his wife wouldn’t have gone batshit crazy.

        And, I thought the front office had the vending machines removed and Giardi never clarified it. Not that it matters.

      • steve (different one)

        And Girardi’s bullpen handling is way overhyped. It was a big reason why they didn’t make the postseason last year,

        holy shit, are you serious?

        you have officially jumped the shark.

      • jsbrendog

        this is all batshit insane

        h/t tjsc

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          I thought of just saying that, but I felt the need to FJM it instead.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        What nonsense. Mattingly should have been the manager here succeeding Torre.

        … because… why, exactly?

        But the Yankees think this is football, and they wanted someone that looks like a bulldog.

        Is that why they hired Girardi? Really? Where the hell are you getting this from?

        That shit never works.

        Good thing that’s TOTALLY NOT THE REASON AT ALL THAT WE HIRED JOE GIRARDI.

        Instead, they got some jouvenile who removes vending machines from the clubhouse.

        And some “jouvenile” who guided a team that was so ravaged by injury that it probably didn’t have any business winning more than 80 games to 89 wins and playoff contention until the final weeks of September.

        And Girardi’s bullpen handling is way overhyped. It was a big reason why they didn’t make the postseason last year,

        No. The bullpen management last year was pretty damn phenomenal. It’s not remotely the reason we didn’t make the playoffs, it’s not a big reason, it’s not even a small reason. The big reasons we didn’t make the playoffs is that we didn’t have a catcher, a centerfielder, a second baseman, or a shortstop, and we only had one actual effective starting pitcher.

        None of those things are a bullpen that was actually damn effective last year, easily the most effective bullpen we’ve had since Stanton, Nelson, and Mendoza were around and in their primes.

        and he’s already flubbed a few moves and the season’s only two weeks old.

        Yes, he’s made some decisions we disagree with. No, he’s not now a “poor bullpen manager” because of it. Calm down.

        Moreover, you have zero reason to believe that Mattingly would be any better since HE’S NEVER MANAGED ANYTHING, EVER. In fact, you have less than zero reason to believe it, since he’s currently studying at the feet of the man who destroyed the careers of several decent bullpen arms this decade.

        This guy is not the answer, and may not make it to 2010.

        Whether this is true or not, none of it means that Mattingly should have been the choice. Don Mattingly is a total wildcard. There can be no expectation at all. There is nothing to base any educated guesses on. He is a blank slate.

        Managerial talent? What, he LOOKS like a manager?

        Yes, compared to Mattingly, Girardi “looks” like a manager because he has, in fact, been a manager. Mattingly has not. What rationale do you base your pro-Mattingly campaign on? That he “looks” like a Yankee or “looks” like a Torre disciple? Those things are even more worthless than Girardi “looking” like a manager.

        • jsbrendog

          \pwned

      • jsbrendog

        “Right. And Bobby Valentine had more baseball talent coming out of high school than Mickey Mantle did. That’s been said as well.”

        doesnt count if you said it to yourself

        • Chris C.

          It was said by many scouts, genius, when Valentine was coming out of high school in Conneticut.

          • jsbrendog

            if you dont have proof then you made it up. i couldnt find anything of this online and most archives of papers are digitized

  • Ams223

    I think the only reason girardi was hired is because we had 2 rookies scheduled to be in our staff last year and that was girardis specialty. I always thought girardi was a holding place for donnie (unless they win the series), but depending how the season ends we will see who is with us next year.

    • El Generalissimo

      Yes, of course because you take Girardi, who won manager of the year and use him as a place holder for Mattingly, who has zero managing experience, and more importantly zero experience with pitchers.

      If Girardi cant make it work I would prefer a veteran like Bobby V, just to seem him get tossed and then come back into the dugout wearing a fake nose and mustache.

      • Ams223

        Yes because I don’t think they wanted to put donnie in a position to “fail” they knew the team last year was questionable and if girardi could help the young arms then he wouldve done his job. Don’t get me wrong I like girardi but love mattingly

        • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

          May I ask why you love Mattingly for a managerial candidate? I just don’t see at all what would make him a good manager. He’s had no experience but being a hitting coach and being Torre’s bench coach. I know that’s a good guy to learn under but I’d rather he got some actual managerial experience, even if it were in the minors.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I always thought girardi was a holding place for donnie (unless they win the series), but depending how the season ends we will see who is with us next year.

      An deal like this would be fairly impossible. Joe Girardi is not Joe Paterno, he’s not some 80-year old on his last legs who has/needs a coach in waiting. You can’t “hold a place” for a manager that you like but think is too inexperienced by hiring a young manager who has a good track record and bright future.

      We picked Girardi over Donnie because we liked Girardi better. Doing so increases the likelihood that no matter how Girardi works out, Donnie will go elsewhere.

      You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

      • Chris C.

        We picked Girardi over Donnie because we liked Girardi better.

        Who’s “we”?
        Let’s be honest here…….the Yankees picked Girardi over Mattingly because they felt Girardi would rule with a more iron fist, get in faces, rattle cages, and throw clubhouse garbage cans……..and they viewed Mattingly as someone more in the mold of Joe Torre.

        That’s fine………in the NFL. That shit DOES NOT WORK in a game that requires players to operate best when they’re relaxed. And the Yankees reflected Girardi perfectly last year……a bundle of nerves.

        • steve (different one)

          “We” are the yankees. pretty obvious, no?

          as for the rest of your post, the entire thing is speculation stated as fact.

          • jsbrendog

            as usual, thats his M.O.

    • Chris C.

      “I think the only reason girardi was hired is because we had 2 rookies scheduled to be in our staff last year and that was girardis specialty.”

      Yeah. He was so special with it, that three of Florida’s rookies went under the knife the following season.
      And Florida’s young playres are doing a tremendous job this season, so there must be alot of people with that kind of “specialty” in that organization.

  • http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00mwbIM15ofMv/340x.jpg Mike Pop

    This will all be moot when the Yanks take two of the next three.

  • Andy In Sunny Daytona

    I’d still rather the Yankees think about Tony Pena as manager if Girardi fails.

    • jsbrendog

      agreed. i have thought that he was brought in as 1b coach for a reason. and now, as bench coach, i feel he would be the de facto skipper should girardi fail. ANGEL BERROA RENAISSANCE!!!!

      • http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00mwbIM15ofMv/340x.jpg Mike Pop

        What aboot Willie Randolph?

        • Andy In Sunny Daytona

          He was an excellent 2nd baseman.

        • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

          If Girardi screws up:

          1. Tony Pena
          2a. Bobby Valentine
          2b. Willie Randolph
          3/4. Don Mattingly

          • jsbrendog

            1. tony pena
            2. bobby valentine
            3. someone not named iwllie randolph or don mattingly
            4. lou piniella

            • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

              Oh snap, I forgot about Lou. I just figured he’ll have his job for a while, no?

              • jsbrendog

                didnt tampa bay take him from seattle while he was still under contract and give them some sort of compensation?

                • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

                  Yeah I think so. I forget exactly what the deal was, though.

                • steve (different one)

                  Tampa sent Randy Winn to Seattle as compensation.

                • jsbrendog

                  wow. randy winn for your manager. ha damn

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            If Girardi screws up:

            1. Tony Pena Bernie Williams
            2a. Bobby Valentine Bernie Williams
            2b. Willie Randolph Bernie Williams
            3/4. Don Mattingly Bernie Williams

            He’d be the most feared manager of his generation.

            • Hobbes

              He’d be the most feared “player”-manager of his generation

        • jsbrendog

          i dont know if willie can handle it. the job across town ate him alive and if he cant handl it there then i doubt he can handle it in the bronx…i mean, he’ll get a shot somewhere eventually and we’ll see but I dont think his personality is cut out to be a manager. hopefully he proves me wrgon cause the mets kinda effed him and he seems like a good guy but im not sold

  • steve (different one)

    Maybe he should have been hired after all last year as the symbolic choice to lead the Yankees into the new stadium

    i don’t understand this sentiment at all.

    this seems like the very worst reason to hire someone.

    • http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00mwbIM15ofMv/340x.jpg Mike Pop

      Agreed. Girardi did an OK job last year. I mean when you have Ponsnerian pitching that many games and you still win 89 games, I think that’s a pretty fair job. Also, saying he should of been there just to open the stadium as the manager is ludicrous.

      • Chris C.

        “Agreed. Girardi did an OK job last year. I mean when you have Ponsnerian pitching that many games and you still win 89 games, I think that’s a pretty fair job.”

        HE did an aweful job last year.
        He got more than he could have dreamed out of Mussina, and the guys who came up actually gave them plenty of quality starts. The Yankees starting pitching being “aweful” was a myth. His constantly changing bullpen pitchers to save arms and his ulta-reliance on Hawkins did him in. And he seemd to lose alot of the players with his silly pettiness.

        Rasner had a high ERA because he had some very bad starts, but his ratio of quality starts to total starts was not that bad for a fill-in. But the Yankees tried to make Rasner typlify everything that went wrong last year, and that’s just nonsense.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          All of this is batshit insane.

        • jsbrendog

          aweful. as in i am full of awe.

        • steve (different one)

          wow. simply stunning.

          you literally couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.

          the line about Hawkins is utterly f’ing priceless, it’s so stupid that i am speechless.

          for that, i tip my hat.

          • steve (different one)

            LaTroy Hawkins in 2008…which “did in” Joe Girardi:

            Hawkins pitched in 33 games for the yankees last year.

            NINETEEN of those appearances came when the Yankees were ahead or behind by 4 or more runs.

            After the month of April, he only appeared in TWO games where the deficit was less than 3 runs.

            one of those games was that extra inning game in baltimore where the bullpen had already been emptied.

            so, after the first few weeks of the season, Girardi “relied” on Hawkins a whopping total of ONE time.

            here is a brief summary of how he was used in July:

            ahead 11
            down 6
            ahead 5
            ahead 6
            ahead 8
            ahead 5

            • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

              I wish we had an applause icon here.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Yes, but even though those games were totally out of reach, HE KEPT USING HAWKINS! THAT’S HORRIBLE BULLPEN MANAGEMENT, YOU CAN’T TRUST HIM IN ANY SITUATION!

              He should have buried Hawkins at the end of his bench and instead used Mariano Rivera and Brian Bruney there. Sure, there’s a good chance you burn them out and destroy their arms leaving them ineffective for the postseason, but the #1 rule of bullpen management is “only pitch your top 3-4 guys and use them constantly, situation be damned.”

              Sincerely,
              Joe Torre and Chris C.

              • Chris C.

                “Yes, but even though those games were totally out of reach, HE KEPT USING HAWKINS! THAT’S HORRIBLE BULLPEN MANAGEMENT, YOU CAN’T TRUST HIM IN ANY SITUATION!”

                Like I said, when Girardi is gone after this year, you can all talk about how you knew he wasn’t the right guy for the job.

                • Jack

                  Wait, what?

            • Chris C.

              I love how the whole post is just “batshit insane”, then three different posters all harp on the same small point.

              • jsbrendog

                The Yankees starting pitching being “aweful” was a myth:

                starters era+:
                Ponson – 76
                Rasner – 82
                pettitte – 98
                Pavano – 7 games started 5.77 era ERA+ of 77

                “AWEFUL”

                and the guys who came up actually gave them plenty of quality starts.:

                Kennedy – 0-4 8.17 ERA in 9 games started. ERA+ of 54

                Hughes – 0-4 6.62 ERA in 8 games started ERA+ of 67

                Kei Igawa – 1 start 13.50 ERA

                Aceves only had FOUR STARTS

                Againa you are wrong WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

                Bullpen stats:

                Bruney – 32 games 1.83 era ERA+ of 242

                Veras – 60 games 3.59 era ERA + of 124

                Farnsworth – 45 games 3.65 ERA ERA+ of 122

                Ramirez – 55 games 3.90 ERA ERA+ of 114

                the other arms were switched around because they were not that good. Other than the names above NO ONE (other than hawkins which has already been covered above) appeared in mroe than 25 games. that makes 10 (TEN!!!) other arms who were given a chance but failed. That is why they were “shuffled around”

                so again you are WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

                Darrell Rasner:
                Quality Starts – SIX! OUT OF TWENTY!!!

                6 out of 20

                30%.

                will you shut up now?

          • JohnnyC

            This is supposed to be funny, no?

            • jsbrendog

              unfortunately…..no. which makes it twice as funny

  • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

    What other former/current players do you think will end up in coaching positions? I think Moose would be a dynamite pitching coach.

    • Hobbes

      If you have a staff of neurotic, grumpy pitchers.

    • steve (different one)

      Mariano would be a great pitching coach.

      • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

        Yeah, I think he could be absolutely fantastic. That idea was further cemented during the ASG last year when half the AL pitching staff was crowded around him, watching him teach Halladay the cutter.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          The only thing I wonder about is how well great players become great coaches.

          There was a great piece that either Gammons or Simmons did talking about Manny Ramirez giving pointers to hitters. Some guy (Casey Blake, maybe) was struggling to hit some pitch in some location, and Manny was all “If you can’t hit that pitch, why don’t you just not swing at it?” and the other guy’s reply was basically “that’s the difference between Manny and the rest of us: I can’t lay off that pitch because I can’t tell whether it’s a pitch I can or can’t handle before I start my swing. He can.”

          I wonder if Mariano, a guy with a flawlessly perfect repeatable delivery, can help a pitcher like CMW who can’t master the repeatability of his delivery. Sometimes it takes a guy who can’t do something well to teach somebody what NOT to do.

          • steve (different one)

            i am not just saying this b/c Mariano is a great pitcher.

            my evidence is purely anecdotal, but i can remember several stories where Yankee pitchers were struggling and Mariano was the one who spotted the flaw and fixed it.

            i believe one such pitcher was Luis Vizcaino.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              No, I know, and you’re right, Mariano has taught the cutter to many a pitcher and helped them all.

              Just idle speculation on my part that great players often bomb out as fulltime coaches/teachers because the game is so much easier for them, they can’t offer much advice other than “Go do something good like I would do here in this situation.”

    • http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00mwbIM15ofMv/340x.jpg Mike Pop

      Nick Swisher – hitting coach. That is 14 years down the line after he is part of a historic 8 championship run for the Yankees.

    • Jack

      Are we just talking Yankees? Because I bet Maddux would also be a great pitching coach.

      If we are talking former Yankees, the obvious is Clemens as a Strength & Conditioning guy.

      • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

        Yeah I meant just Yankees, sorry for the lack of clarification.

        Maddux could probably be pretty good, too. What about Chipper as a hitting coach?

      • jsbrendog

        testical ointment guy

    • jon

      Moose as a pitching coach would be awsome

      he would slowly walk out to the mound when on of his pitches mechanics were off and yell at him till he was crying and figured it out

  • LiveFromNewYork

    Didn’t Donnie have to leave for a while to straighten out his home issues? I don’t really think we could have handled not having a manager for a while and Girardi probably would have been taken.

    Much as I love Donnie, I think they made the right decision at the time. Love to see Donnie back in the Bronx where he belongs but I hope he can be more than just Torre’s clone.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Personally, I’d love to see Donnie take over for Torre and stay in LA, because that probably means Girardi is doing fine for us here winning rings.

    • Chris C.

      “Didn’t Donnie have to leave for a while to straighten out his home issues? I don’t really think we could have handled not having a manager for a while and Girardi probably would have been taken.”

      That’s hindsight. Nobody knew Mattingly would need a break when the hiring decision is made.

      • LiveFromNewYork

        It doesn’t matter. Mattingly’s absence would have been difficult for the team.

    • Chris C.

      “I think they made the right decision at the time. Love to see Donnie back in the Bronx where he belongs but I hope he can be more than just Torre’s clone.”

      If the Yankees miss the postseason again, you may be praying for a Torre clone!

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        If the Yankees miss the postseason again, you may be praying for a Torre clone!

        If you want a “Torre clone” because we missed the playoffs in the two years following Torre’s dismissal, it’s because you’re too dense to understand the difference between causality and correlation.

        • Chris C.

          No, you’re too dense to realize what Torre’s contrbutions as a Yankee manager really were. All you see are a few questionable in-game moves, and figure that sums it all up.

          Nevermind……I’m done with this.

          You’e right. Girardi’s a great manager. Or as someone else said, he’s got tremendous “managerial skills”.

  • Rich

    Mattingly is probably at least as likely to be offered the chance to manage a team other than the Yankees or the Dodgers. Would he be willing, for example, to manage the Mets, or the Sox?

    • Chris C.

      I could see Mattingly ending up as the Cardinals manager. LaRussa is near retirement, and I think I read that Donnie was a Cardinal fan growing up. I think he’d love to take that job if offered, and the timing may end up being perfect.

    • jsbrendog

      i hope he does go somewhere else first to see if he can hack it. that way we dont have another willie randolph situation. imagine if mattingly came here and failed miserably. no one wants to see a legacy tarnished like that.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Heh, Joe Torre himself has intimated that his failures as a manager for the Mets, Braves, and Cardinals made him a better manager here.

        Do you hear that, Mattingly for manager advocates? Sometimes a manager needs to go somewhere and FAIL before they can go somewhere else and succeed.

      • Andy In Sunny Daytona

        What legacy?

        • jsbrendog

          his yankee l;egacy as a whole. i mean, a lot of yankee fans have him up ion this pedestal and idolize him and make him out to be a diety.

          if he came to ny and was ultra suck as manager and was canned after being terrible and showing he was in waaaay over his head it would be a shame.

          • Chris C.

            “his yankee l;egacy as a whole. i mean, a lot of yankee fans have him up ion this pedestal and idolize him and make him out to be a diety.”

            Maybe because he was a HOF type ballplayer before injuring his back, and didn’t strut around bitching about playing time or his contract. I think the guy pretty much put himself on the pedestal by having a string of season that were pretty MVP-like.
            You kind of make it sound like those fans were silly to idolize him.

            • jsbrendog

              inference FAIL just like the rest of your analysis. he is on a pedestal by many yankee fans. this is a result of him being the only bright spot in the worst time for the team during most of our lifetimes. it happens. there is no wrong or right it is a fact. and a managerial FAILURE OF EPIC PROPORTIONS would tarnish that. no one wants that.

              for god sakes

  • Axl

    Why would we have picked Don Mattingly last year though? That wouldn’t have made sense. At BEST, he was essentially the same thing as Joe Torre. But he was extremely inexperienced and at WORST he could have been utterly terrible. Wouldn’t we have just kept Joe Torre if we wanted Don Mattingly’s “at BEST”?? He might have been cheaper but it’s not a sure thing.

    Joe Girardi was suppose to be the opposite of Torre. A drill sergeant type who would kick the players in the ass and get them going in a different way. Though, since he’s come over…he’s been everything but. He seems extremely passive and very Torre-like.

    So I guess in the long run…it didn’t matter who was picked. They were both going to take the same approach after-all. Wonder if the Yankee brass knew that before they picked Girardi…although his experience alone and “manager of the year” award didn’t hurt him either.

    • jsbrendog

      i really wished then that they wouldmake pena the manager with their “first choice for torre’s replacement” as bench coach. so mattingly/girardi had a chance to continue to grow under someone who has shown they can get a lot out of a little and is a very good baseball mind and manager.

    • Chris C.

      “Why would we have picked Don Mattingly last year though? That wouldn’t have made sense. At BEST, he was essentially the same thing as Joe Torre. But he was extremely inexperienced and at WORST he could have been utterly terrible. Wouldn’t we have just kept Joe Torre if we wanted Don Mattingly’s “at BEST”??”

      And I’m the guy making assumptions??

      • jsbrendog

        yes you are. because IT WOULDNT HAVE MADE SENSE to pick someone who was extremely inexperienced (see: completely) and had no track record. Girardi had experience, a manager of the year award, and dealt with yougn players while the yankees were tyring to get younger.

        the only assumption he made in there is that “he was essentially the same thing as joe torre” that is speculation. but what he says otherwise is true. why rationally do you hire the protege of the person you are unceremonisouly dismissing who has ZERO EXPERIENCE DOING ANY MANAGING instead of the guy who has experience with exactly what you want to do, get younger and get max effort and results from said younger players?????????? the risk is too great for a team such as the yankees.

        when mattingly was even considered a serious candidate last year i was shocked and hoped he was nto going to be the choice

  • MG1957

    I love Donnie Baseball…but say he is hired. The team doesn’t do well. How do you fire Don Mattingly? I mean he’s Don Mattingly!

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      That’s always the question, but — and I realize this is a bad example — the Yanks fired Yogi as manager. It can be done.

  • Pingback: Staying Alive with El Capitan | The Voice of Yankees Universe