May
28

Open Thread: Talk about the game

By

It’s inevitable that on off-days we tend to shift the conversation to roster issues and other non-game ideas. Without a game to think about that night, we can take the time to stand back and reflect on how the team is doing, what’s going wrong, and what they can do to right it. Thankfully most thing are going well for the Yankees now. Yet the Joba debate rages on, and it was in full-force today. However, let’s get back to the game for a minute, even though there is none tonight.

Earlier this week Dave Pinto made some suggestions for FOX to improve their baseball coverage. Apparently ratings are down and FOX is looking for ways to change that. Pinto’s solution is an obvious one: talk about the game. We like to hear commentators talk about the player at bat, the pitcher who’s dealing, the current situation. Those are what make baseball interesting. That’s what will get viewers — or at least will turn off fewer of them. Who needs to hear endless prattling about PEDs yet again?

The big game of the week is not a soap box on which to pontificate about the state of the game, or the latest scandal, or anything else. That remains the province of studio shows, newspaper columns, and today, the internet. Talk about the game. Don’t spend an inning talking about steroids, with the pitches incidental to the discussion. Don’t interview a guest while a rally is underway. Leave that to Baseball Tonight and Ken Rosenthal’s columns. I don’t want to hear from the managers, I don’t want a special guest in the booth, I want the game covered. I want to know the pitch, the count, the result of the play.

I couldn’t possibly agree more with Pinto. Yet I realize that not everyone is going to feel the same way. Maybe some people do get their rocks off hearing about the latest scandal. Maybe some people would rather hear Buck and McCarver excoriate Alex Rodriguez for his moral shortcomings.

We’ll use this topic to kick off the open thread for the evening. Of course, it will move to other topics, and I have this feelings that Joba’s role will be one of them. Just call it a hunch. As always, any and all are welcome as you’re willing to speak civilly. So have at it.

Notes: From PeteAbe: Melky will travel with the team to Cleveland but will in all likelihood not play. Posada will be activated tomorrow for sure. No word on who will be removed from the roster, though it’s certainly going to be among Cash, Cervelli, and Berroa. Nady went 2 for 5 with a homer in extended spring training.

Categories : Open Thread

274 Comments»

  1. Sean says:

    Joba will be a starter, Cashman, Girardi and everyone else that matters knows that and people like Mike Francesca are just going to regret sounding so stupid.

    • Anthony says:

      I wish he would regret it, but I’m sure Francesca will be just as arrogant as ever if when Joba becomes a successful starter.

  2. pat says:

    Hypothetical question.. Matt Purke or Gerritt Cole? I’m not super familiar with Purker but I would think Cole, right?

      • Ivan says:

        U know Bill Madden still uses that arguement that the yanks were morons to draft Cole cuz they should of known that Cole dad was supa rich and should of not drafted him. Ridiculous, it’s amaze me nobody has called him out on that lie.

        • Mike Axisa says:

          He was a billionaire despite never being in Forbes!11!1!!1!

          • The Artist says:

            Speaking of Cole, Mike can you ever see the Yanks drafting him again? Not with a high pick, that’s just begging to have egg on your face, but with a lower pick where they offer him a similar deal to what they offered him last year?

            Do you think that organizationally that bridge is burned, or as a business they won;t let personal feelings get in the way and will take him a second time foir the same reason they took him the first time, that he could be a great pitcher?

            • pat says:

              He won’t be eligible to be drafted until 2011. By then he’ll probably be a top 5 or top 10 guy and hopefully we wouldn’t have a chance to get him again.

            • Mike Axisa says:

              I think the bridge might have been burned. But if he’s the best guy available, it wouldn’t shock me if they took him.

              He has to consent to the Yanks drafting him again, and I’m sure he will since they can pay him more than anyone.

  3. Joe R says:

    Incase anyone missed it. Thought this was kinda funny.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....popt00us02

  4. No McCarver/Buck, no problem.

  5. Drew says:

    Krukky is where he belongs, calling girls softball games on ESPN.

  6. Ivan says:

    Well u guys can watch game 5 of the Cavs/Magic game.

    • Anthony says:

      As much as I like LeBron, the more I see the Cavs playing as poorly as they have, the more likely (I hope) that he goes to the Knickerbockers after next year. ::crosses fingers::

      • andrew says:

        I’m with you.

        • Anthony says:

          Definitely man. With D’Antoni’s system, LeBron would be ridiculous, borderline unfair, against the rest of the league.

      • Ivan says:

        I really have a hard time believing that LeBron would leave Cle. I really just don’t see it.

        • Anthony says:

          I think if you take LeBron off that team, Cleveland is just about the same team skill wise as the Knicks and given how LeBron wants to be a global icon, Walsh taking over for Isiah, and how much LeBron loves New York we have a pretty good shot. Not saying we’re gonna get him, but the cards look like they’re stacked in our favor.

          • Ivan says:

            I will say this, while I have a very hard time believing he will leave Cle and I think he will eventually sign an extension, if he does leave, I think no question he comes to the knicks.

            • andrew says:

              I think that’s where it’s headed. It’s probably 90% that he’s staying, but most of that other 10% is in NY

        • andrew says:

          As do I, but I think that if he wins the championship this year or next year, there is no way he is leaving, etched it stone, forget about it. If he loses the next two years, with the best supporting cast he’s had thus far, maybe he thinks it’s time for a fresh start. New York City, D’Antoni’s system, a new start, and probably a similar chance at the title. It’s slightly tempting, or atleast I’d like to think.

          • Ivan says:

            I think it’s the reverse, if he wins a championship in Cle, it sorta increases his chances of leaving for the simple fact that he did what he was suppose to do since he was drafted by cle which is bringing a championship home. If he does that, he did his job and if he leaves, he leaves with really no regrets and harsh feelings and closiness.

            If he doesn’t, then I think leaving cle would make him look like a villian. I think Cle will build a legit championship team around him and make him as happy as possible. LeBron REALLY wants to win a championship in Cle to sullified closiness in Cle. That has been his mission since he was drafted.

      • JonNY McUtah says:

        Does anybody here think the Phillies have any chance of trading for Jake Peavy?

  7. Joey H. says:

    So Myers out for a while. They needed 1 starter before, now they need two! Who do you all think is a fit?

  8. Sean says:

    How do you all think the roster is going to look after the allstar break? you think we will have the bullpen/bench in order?

  9. Mike HC says:

    I agree. You have to assume that fans of the respective teams playing on FOX will tune in no matter what. When I watch other teams, I want to hear about their players, who is coming up in their system, who is hot, who is cold, who may get traded, history about the players in the game, and most importantly, commentating of what is actually happening in game … what relievers are used in certain situations, who their pinch runners are, etc … But, you never get this analysis. They talk about what celebrities are in the stands, wearing brown shoes (I literally remember McCarver and Buck go on and on about brown shoes for an entire inning), the history of steroids, A-Rod, etc … There is no point in listening or turning into the game. I learn nothing about the teams playing.

    • Nick says:

      Agree.

      I don’t even watch Fox games when the Yanks are playing, because I hate Buck/McCarver so much. McCarver is a baseball guy, so given appropriate direction he may be salvageable, but Buck seems to hate baseball (and even football for that matter), so he needs to go.

      I know a lot of people hate Berman, but he at least seems to have fun at the game, whereas Buck doesn’t seem to want to be there at all.

      (I only mention Berman as an example of a good attitude for an announcer to have)

  10. Ivan says:

    Hey who u guys got winning the Stanley Cup?

  11. The Artist says:

    Not sure if anyone heard this, but Andrew Marchand had some interesting stuff on Wang today.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/stat.....id=4213308

    He said that the Yanks told Wang NOT to exercise his legs as usual this off season, due to the Lisfranc fracture. Makes sense, they don’t have much experience with the injury (no one in Baseball does) and he did injure his foot by simply running.

    But now Cashman views that as a mistake, he clearly wasn’t strong enough to start the season and the lack of work goes a long way to explaining his problems this year. Live and learn, I suppose.

    But this also makes me think he should be able to return to form at some point this year, which was something I had serious doubts about before.

    • Drew says:

      I know you’ve had your doubts with Wanger, but you’ve got to be patient. The mistake has already been done, he should have had 2 more starts in AAA (at least). Now we have to deal with it and get him in games.
      Wang will be Wang by the season’s end, you can mark that down. This guy nearly won a CY a couple years ago, that doesn’t happen by accident.

      • The Artist says:

        No but pitchers get injured all the time and come back as a shell of their former selves. I could roll off 15 names off the top of my head of guys who had lights out, dominating stuff and then got hurt and never returned to form. And not just shoulder injuries, either. You can’t assume someone will come back 100% until he does it.

        Fucking Alan Horne took 3 years to fully recover from Tommy John, wheras other guys come back in one. You never know with injuries, everyone is different and how hard they rehab is often a big factor.

  12. Chris A says:

    Jonathan Mayo of MLB.COM has the Rangers taking Purke with their 14th pick. He only predicted 1-20. Is this a strong possibility, or should Purke fall lower?

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=mlb

  13. GG says:

    Whats the deal with Raul Ibanez??? The guy turns 37 in a few days and he’s on pace to easily set career highs across the board and make a run at an MVP. Test him for roids now!

    • Mr. Rodriguez says:

      HGH does wonders for anybody

      • Drew says:

        You would know?

        • Mr. Rodriguez says:

          Yeah actually lol. I train at Bev Francis powerhouse out of syosset NY. HGH/Test and many pro hormones are highly encouraged by fellow members there. I have only cycled on Methyl-vol prohormone a few months back, but i’ve seen first hand what kind of confidence an athlete gets when he ontains a competetive edge knowing he probably won’t get caught.

          • Drew says:

            I agree, I’m a weightlifter and I’ve had many different synthetics and precursors pass my way. HGH is not a steroid, that’s my whole contention to the “he’s taking HGH” thought. Maybe it will give them confidence but it won’t change them from Raul Ibanez to The Babe.

            • pat says:

              I know there’s really no statistical evidence to back this up but I’m a firm believer that surroundings can have an effect on a guy’s performance. Some guys don’t mind or prefer to play on a shitty team in an empty stadium and just chug along and put up their numbers. Maybe a guy like Ibanez is invigorated playing for a good team in front of sellout crowds every night. Obviously hes not a 180 OPS+ guy, but combine a hot start with being on a WS contender, maybe he’s just stepping up.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      I’d rather test Ortiz. Wasn’t his trainer accused of giving out PED’s to other players?

    • steve (different one) says:

      Jason Varitek has TEN HRs, it’s not even June.

      i don’t think it’s PEDs, i think it’s the ball.

      something has changed that has boosted HRs 10% around the league. it’s not just NYS. there is something else contributing to it.

    • andrew says:

      Ibanez was consistently putting up great numbers in Seattle, one of the best pitcher’s parks in the league… then he goes to Philly, one of the best parks for hitters. I can’t say I’m shocked, drafted him in every fantasy league I did(except for the RAB alternative league of course). It’s a combination of a hot streak and talent. He’ll cool off.

  14. The Artist says:

    “Last night, on the ESPN broadcast of the Yankees/Rangers game. Rick Sutcliffe said that Mark Teixeira has been getting more fastballs since Alex Rodriguez came back from a torn labrum.

    I know that I have written about this before, about how Tex was a great hitter and was going to get hot about that time anyway, as he does every single year. But now I have some evidence.

    Dave Allen over at The Baseball Analysts wrote a good piece questioning whether or not Milton Bradley was in fact getting balls out of the strike zone called against him more often.

    So I posed a question, and asked him if he could tell me if Tex had actually been seeing more fastballs since the return of ARod.

    His response:

    “Joe, yeah that is very easy to check with the pitchf/x data. It looks to me like before May 8th Tex was thrown 288 fastballs out of 479 pitches, about 60%. Since May 8th he has seen 167 fastballs of 287 pitches, 58%. He has seen fewer fastballs since A-Rod has been back, but the difference is small.”

    http://www.statisticianmagician.com/?p=158

    Another thing we’ve heard repeated a zillion times lately, which turns out to be totally false.

  15. Mr. Rodriguez says:

    +/- Mark Teixeira winning AL MVP, Gold Glove at first, Silver Slugger

    I’d feel confident he wins 2 outta 3 of those

  16. Corey Nord-Podberesky says:

    Does anyone know anything about Matt Graham?

  17. I’m more interested in seeing Hughes, Swish, and CC courtside than I am in this game’s first 46 minutes.

  18. Permínio Neto says:

    Fantasy: Derek Lowe for Jayson Werth, fair trade?

  19. So as of right now, per RLYW, Jeter has the 3rd most runs saved at SS. What are the chances of that staying up? I can easily see him overtaking Bartlett and Scutaro in terms of Pos. Adj. Batting Runs and being the best hitting SS in the AL this year, but if he keeps the fielding up too…man, it’s gonna be a good year for the Yanks.

    • Accent Shallow says:

      Post was edited earlier today, but so far he’s about average: -1 runs overall per ZR, and -0.1 per UZR, for a 0.7 UZR/150.

      While his numbers aren’t top of the league, if he can be average or slightly below average, that’s huge.

  20. pat says:

    I cant frickin wait for the mlb draft.

    • Drew says:

      If we get a repeat of last year I’ma be pissssssed

      • pat says:

        Haha yeah I hear you. I just want to get to the point where all we do is draft high ceiling highschool guys and turn our farm in to a friggin baseball factory.

  21. Mr. Rodriguez says:

    Anybody have MLB 09 the show?

    I’m looking to buy 360 or PS3 and I think i’m gonna go w/ playstation

  22. Drew says:

    I DL’d the demo on ps3, it’s aight. I stick with NHL 09, Fifa and tiger woods. PS3 is so legit.

  23. Stan Van Gundy sounds like he’s crying.

  24. Mr. Rodriguez says:

    yeah I’ve seen screen shots . I love how they have commentary too. its just so realistic .

    Whats your guys opinions on MLB Front office feat. Billy Beane?

    • Mike Axisa says:

      It sucks. Get The Show instead, it has all the same features and you can actually play the games.

    • whozat says:

      They did a review of the game on the site (I think Mike did it?) when it came out. Search for that thread and you’ll find lots of talk about it, probably.

  25. Drew says:

    Is Jober at the NBA game too?

  26. pat says:

    ***ACCENT SHALLOW DO NOT READ THIS*******

    The Jesus hath gone deep twice tonight. He also has a sacrifice bunt.. haha.

  27. Arod, all the time says:

    Joba: 2-1, 3.97, 1.57, no reliable bullpen arms, short of that 51 year old guy who’s supposed to close.

    Enough is enough, right? Consider his starting a mistake and move on.

    Why is all of NY so moronic about this issue. Joba belongs in the pen, period. Get that through your think fuggin skulls.

    • Kevin G. says:

      IETC.

      Oh, he was serious. Ugh.

      • Arod, all the time says:

        Damn straight. Why is it that you people cannot see the obvious?

        • Arod, all the time says:

          Joba (as he’s presently used) or Masterson (as he is), who ya got.

          Masterson, of course. He can relieve, start, shut down, damn, pretty much do anything. But Joba? nah, he comes in every week and throws 5 nondescript innings, having zero impact on the game.

          • having zero impact on the game.

            Ladies and gentlemen, John Kruk.

          • Come back to me when Masterson can get lefties out and strike out 12 in 5.2 innings against a team like…the Red Sox.

          • Kevin G. says:

            It’s funny because you think it’s true.

          • Arod, all the time says:

            Joba’s last 5 games:

            1) Gets busted in Boston
            2) Beats BALT. Whoopee
            3) No decision after 6 IP in MIN after walking 4 guys
            4) Leaves BALT game with injury
            5) Goes 4 IP vs TEX, in a game NYY ultimately loses

            Wake up and smell the coffee, boys.

            • pat says:

              Joba has a better ERA in more innings than masterson this year. Just STFU and troll somewhere else

            • You still didn’t answer my remark on Masterson. So is Masterson really better than Joba?

            • 1. Got busted in one inning. Dominated thereafter and kept the Yankees in the game.
              2. I guess games against the Orioles don’t count in the standings, huh?
              3. Still only allowed two runs and struck out 6.
              4. Fluky. Shit happens.
              5. Considering that he pulled a Dice-BB and allowed 8 base runners in 4 IP but only 3 scored, whilst striking out 5 with not great stuff, I’ll take it.

              • Evan says:

                I had a feeling a B-Jobber would bring up that injury. Of the less than sound premises one can bring up in support of that argument, HOW IN THE WORLD DOES HIM GETTING HIT BY A LINE DRIVE SUPPORT THAT CLAIM?

              • Arod, all the time says:

                EXCUSES

                Fact is, Matt, you cannot deny that Joba controlled the latter innings when he pitched them but you have to make excuses for him while he does not. That’s the fact, jack.

                • JobaWockeeZ says:

                  All you’re arguments are moot. You want to put Joba in the pen? Who the hell takes his spot? Sure as hell won’t be Wang. Let’s see if a B-Jobber actually answers a damn question.

                • He’s also shown the ability to dominate the earlier innings as well. So, yeah, I’m not gonna panic because he’s not the Cy Young favorite in May of his first full season starting.

                • Arod, all the time says:

                  No doubt, but nothing he can do is translating to the field, so really, who gives a rat’s ass?

                  Put him where he helps. That’s suppoed to be the rule of good management.

                • Tom Zig says:

                  I don’t follow. How does the line drive game make an argument for either side?

                  So when it happens to the Yankees its regarded as an “excuse” but say the same thing happens to a Sox player. I’m sure you’d be making the same “excuse”.

                • He helps more in the rotation. The hole he’d fix in the bullpen is much smaller than the hole he’d leave in the rotation.

                  I guess the fact that he has more strikeouts than innings pitched impacts nothing? Come on, you’re not a “numbers” guy but to say that has no impact is just ridiculous.

                  Then again, putting Joba in the ‘pen makes the Yankees a weaker team so it does make sense for a Sox fan to want that.

                • JobaWockeeZ says:

                  [b]Put him where it helps. [/b]
                  That’s the starting rotation. If you fail to see that then you need to actually start learning the current state the Yankees.

                • Arod, all the time says:

                  Strikeout. Talent. What could be.

                  All trivial. His ability does not translate to starting. That (and the fact that NYY does not carry another setup reliever) is all that should ever matter.

                • Kevin G. says:

                  You do realize that (aside from late 2007- early 2008) Joba has been a starter his entire Yankees career and in high school.

                • JobaWockeeZ says:

                  Nice to completely ignore one huge question on this debate. Really, you’re smart. Now let’s see if you answer this time. I’ll even bold it.
                  WHO DO WE PUT IN JOBA’S PLACE IF WE PUT HIM BACK IN THE BULLPEN?
                  And they just called up Robertson. Pretty soon we’ll hear from Melancon. Joba will never go back to the bullpen no matter how many time you try to reassure yourself.
                  Then again you’re a Sox fan so what I’m saying is falling onto deaf ears.

                • Arod, all the time says:

                  How about Penny?

                  lol

    • pat says:

      DON’T FEED THE TROLLS

    • So 2008 w/a 2.76 ERA, 1.301 WHIP, and 2.96 K/BB didn’t happen?

      I guess no young pitchers ever struggle. Ever. They’re all like Timmy L. and win CYA’s right off the bat.

      You’re a Sox fan, right? If Papelfuck was able to pitch 200 innings w/o having shoulder issues, wouldn’t you want him in the rotation?

      • Accent Shallow says:

        It would be hilarious watching Papelbon trying and get through the lineup multiple times with just a fastball. Hilarious.

      • Arod, all the time says:

        Papelbon is an excellent example. On a team that can provide other solid solutions at starter, he’s utilized instead as the closer, where he conducts 3 of the best closer years in ML history.

        Would I rather he started? duh, no.

        • Kevin says:

          On a team that can provide other solid solutions at starter

          Brad Penny?

        • Really? So if he were strong enough to start and had a workable third pitch, you’d rather have Brad Penny pitching 150-200 innings than Papelbon? Really? REALLY? REALLY?

          • Arod, all the time says:

            Really. And the same question to you: Would you have rather had Mo start for this past decade instead?

            Of course not.

            • The Yanks tried Mo as a starter. He failed. He also wasn’t half the prospect Joba was.

              There really is no comparison. Mo just happen to click in the pen, but only after he failed as a starter. He was also 26 when the Yanks moved him to the pen. Joba is 23.

              • Arod, all the time says:

                They tried?

                Oh, please, now you’re contradicting yourself. Mo was given exactly 10 starts with NY before he was converted. Yes, Michael knew exactly what he was doing by doing so, but no, he did not get the same opportunity you are asking they give Joba.

                10 starts and Mo was converted. 21 starts by Joba and you all are still waiting.

            • If he didn’t suck as a starter, definitely.

        • JobaWockeeZ says:

          Bbecause starting pitching means nothing!!!!!!!!!!!1111
          EVERYONE KNOWS ITS TEH 8TH IS WHERE ITS AT!!!!!!!!!!

      • Chris says:

        Actually, Lincecum is a great comparison for Joba. Here are their stats (as starters only) through their age 23 season:

        Lincecum: 4.00ERA 9.2K/9 0.7HR/9 4.0BB/9
        Joba: 3.25ERA 9.8K/9 0.8HR/9 4.1BB/9

        And remember that Lincecum was pitching in the power-house that is the NL west.

        • Oh I’m right on board with you. I fully believe Joba will be the Yankees’ version of Tim Lincecum. I’m just saying that not every young guy is gonna be Tim L. immediately.

          • John says:

            Man, you’re placing a limit on Joba. I like to believe he will be better…with that said, I’ll be ecstatic if he pitches like Timmy every year.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      Well this proves that
      A: You know nothing of the Yankees and
      B: You don’t live anywhere remotely close in NY

    • Tom Zig says:

      If you had to pick one, which would you rather have.

      Jon Lester

      or

      Jon Papelbon

      (remember you have to play by the rules and pick only 1)

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        But theyre both cy young candidates!!!11
        in fact all these pitchers have teh shot of winning cy young
        Josh Beckett
        Jon Lester
        Brad Penny
        Daisuke Matuszaka
        Jonathan Papel Bon
        Manny Delcarmen
        John Smoltz
        Justin Masterson
        Clay Bucholz

        • John says:

          You forgot Bard and Bowden, even though they are in the minors. I guarantee the CY Young, MVP, GG, Silver Slugger, and Spahn winner will come from that group.

          /Gammonsed

  28. In my last gasp of freedom before finals through next Friday, I watched the Ultimate Lax Bro video, and it needs to be shown here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqg01Nk3SYI

  29. pollo says:

    Jesus has 2 Homeruns tonight so far. 7 for the season.

    • V says:

      Niiiice.

      d00d is going to be scary good. I don’t want to put the Pujols/Miguel Cabrera/Vladimir Guerrero label on his bat…. but that’s the comps.

  30. Kevin G. says:

    There are the Yankees!

  31. Andy In Sunny Daytona says:

    Loek Van Mil is a 7’1″(!!!) pitcher for the Ft. Myers Miracle

  32. JobaWockeeZ says:

    CC Interview at Cavs game.

  33. Dorian says:

    A-ROD, MO, AND C.C. SIGHTING

  34. Jamal G. says:

    Heh, the Cavs deserve to lose this one.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      I want them to win but yeah. They deserve to lose for making it this close after leading by 22 points.

  35. John says:

    Found this from Jerome Presseslier on YES:

    “An 18th round draft pick in 2004, he was a right-handed, flame-throwing starter with an attitude who shot up through the team’s farm system as a starting pitcher, made his Major League debut the next year in both starting and relief roles, and eventually became a late-inning reliever due to another player’s ineffectiveness out of the bullpen. As the 2006 season approached, the team continued to see him as an eventual starter, but his particular mental and physical makeup, and the team’s short — and longterm needs, led them to review and eventually revise their plans for him.
    His name was Jonathan Papelbon and, as the team’s closer, he has been critical to the Red Sox’s success over the past several seasons.”

    -Don’t you love Presslier’s selective reporting? Correct me if I’m wrong, but the reason the Sox kept Papelbon in the pen was because he has a history of arm injuries and they didn’t think he would be able to hold up as a starter. (Either that or they realized that nobody could stand to look at the jackass for the extended length of time that a starter is usually kept in a game).

    • Mike Axisa says:

      There’s also the tiny matter of Jonathan Papelbon not being an 18th round pick in 2004. Papelbon was a 4th rounder in ’03; Randall Beam was their 18th rounder in ’04.

      • Jamal G. says:

        And the whole Papelbon-not-being-a-starter-in-college thing.

      • Tom Zig says:

        Wasn’t he also a reliever in college?

        So the Sox tried to convert him into a starter correct?

        Because starting pitching is more valuable?

        So if the Theo/Sox believe that starting pitching is more valuable than relief pitching…doesn’t that make it 10000% true?

        • Arod, all the time says:

          Generally, starters are more valuable than relievers. But when you’re talking about spazzes like Paps ands Joba, where their stuff translates so much better to short-inning adrenaline rush situations, well, it’s my opinion that they’re both better suited for the bullpen.

          Paps has not proven that. Joba just cannot get the opportunity because Cashman apparently forgot that he spent oodles of George’s cash for two starters this year, and he still does not have a bullpen.

          • Arod, all the time says:

            No, he has proven that!

          • I think the error you’re making here is taking certain characteristics you can see on the baseball field and ascribing them to certain roles. But what about Mo? He’s the polar opposite of Papelbon in terms of how he comports himself.

            I don’t see how Joba’s stuff translates better in the pen. He has three excellent pitches and a change he can break out to throw guys off. That’s a starter’s repertoire.

            I also think it’s foolish to cite his numbers this year and use it to say he will be ineffective as a starter in the future. Plenty, plenty of starters have struggled out of the gate. Greg Maddux and Roy Halladay come to mind.

            • Arod, all the time says:

              Joba not pacing himself >>>>> Joba pacing himself.

              Sorry, but that is beyond obvious.

              • Everyone looks better when he goes out there and throws as hard as he can. That doesn’t mean it’s what he should be doing or that it’s more valuable to the team. In terms of value to the team, Joba pacing himself and giving 150-200 innings >>>> Joba going all out for 70-80 innings.

          • their stuff translates so much better to short-inning adrenaline rush situations

            You could say that about literally any pitcher who throws in the mid-90s. Do you think the Yankees and Sox should put Burnett and Beckett in the ‘pen? Both of them are high intensity, adrenaline heavy pitchers, who can fuckin’ bring it.

            • Arod, all the time says:

              Good point.

              But mine is that if Hughes may finally be busting through, and if Wang works, what exactly is the point of having Joba pitch 5 innings every week when he could very well, single-handedly resolve NYY atrocious bullpen?

              • So let’s get to that point. Let’s see Hughes throw a few more solid starts. Let’s see Wang show he can “work” with some relief appearances. If both of those pan out, and Joba is still throwing only 5-inning starts, then lets’ talk. Until then, they shouldn’t mess with what they’ve got.

                • Arod, all the time says:

                  Next year will be too late. This may be a consider-the-source moment for you but I say there is no way your Yanks do damage in the AL East without a radical change to their pen. That mess will just not work.

                • Except for the fact that they’re currently .5 back from first, and would probably be tied if not for an off day.

                  Not letting Joba develop properly develop as a starter will be much more harmful to the Yankees long term than not putting him in the bullpen for the rest of ’09. A rotation next year of:

                  Sabathia
                  Burnett
                  Wang
                  Chamberlain
                  Hughes

                  is good. Really, really good.

    • John says:

      and he didn’t have 4 MLB-caliber pitches like Joba…

      How many Johns are here?

    • V says:

      1) He was a 4th round pick in 2003.
      2) He was a college closer.

      It’s not selective reporting. It’s incorrect reporting.

      • Jamal G. says:

        Just a regular day at the office for Bill Madden. [Yes, I know he wasn't the author of this particular article, but he is perpetually incorrect in his articles on the Yankees, especially when it comes to the farm system or amateur baseball. Jeremy Bleich having TJS, anyone? Gerrit Cole being the son of a billionaire, foks?]

      • Dorian says:

        Hey guys don’t forget. Do not let the facts get in the way of an argument.

      • Tank the Frank says:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Papelbon

        Actually it says here he was was drafted in 2003 in the 4th round but he didn’t sign, then he was drafted in the 18th round in 2004.

        But, yeah, Preisler totally ignores his shoulder issues which were the REAL reasons he couldn’t start.

    • So just out of curiosity: Did you “find it” on YES because we linked to it at 3:30 yesterday afternoon? I’m just wondering.

      • John says:

        I honestly didn’t see the link you guys posted, sorry about that. Didn’t mean to step on your toes there. I usually read The Pinstriped Bible, and found that over there tonight as well. So you guys found it first.

        • Oh don’t worry about it. I’m just ribbing you for it. I’m glad when people find that stuff on their own.

          • John says:

            Haha, alright. I tend to read a lot on the Yankees, although many times I will admit that you guys do point me in the right direction with the posts and links on your blog. Actually, your blog has made keeping up on the Yankees much more fun and interesting because of the constant analysis, discussion, and debate that goes on here. So thank you.

  36. John says:

    I’m one John. From now on, I’ll go by John C. Haha sorry about that, other John.

  37. Accent Shallow says:

    Here’s Phil Hughes pitch f/x data for his start against the Rangers from the lovely Brooks Baseball:

    http://www.brooksbaseball.net/.....evDate=525

    Some interesting stuff in there, particularly how they’re not entirely sure what to make of the cutter, calling it a cutter or a slider depending on the movement.

    And for all the harping on velocity, the fastest pitch they recorded was 92.8 (and it looks like he only threw 6 pitches faster than 92), but he still was fine.

    Additionally, a grand total of one (1) changeup was thrown, although that could just have been a slow cutter.

    • Dorian says:

      My biggest thing Phil has never been his velocity. It seems that at times he has the pinpoint command we heard about for years and there are other times when he has no idea where the ball is going and can’t locate his curveball.

      When he is locating, he is very difficult to hit.

    • I’m always impressed by how tight Phil’s release point is.

  38. Ivan says:

    Wow the Cavas were outscored 45-24 since they had a lead of 32-10. Just a terrible job there.

  39. Ivan says:

    Wow Orl with the lead 60-56.

  40. V says:

    Quick draft question – any chance the Yankees take the injured Luke Bailey in the 2nd round? Is that a reach?

  41. John says:

    From Neyer:
    David Ortiz isn’t looking any better. Early in the game, he managed to snap his bat while swinging and missing. And later, he missed some eminently hittable pitches while striking out, then broke that bat across his knee while striding through the dugout. I just can’t figure out what letting him continue to struggle, day after day, is accomplishing. I guess when you’re in first place, you can do whatever you like.

  42. donttradecano says:

    did that cavs fan really just make the choke sign toward the magic bench?? your team had a 20 pt lead!!!!

  43. pat says:

    I blame Mo for the BJobber debate. If he wasn’t so good people would stop thinking closers were more important than starters.

    Dick.

  44. donttradecano says:

    That conversation with the caller by francessa was uncalled for really. the caller didnt yell at him, so he had no reason to yell.

    I really wanna win one of those contests where you go to a game with him. then ill read off the long list of why bjobbers are wrong.

  45. Jake H says:

    There is a draft chat tomorrow on milb.com for anyone who is interested.

  46. V says:

    Man, the Cavs have really choked in this series.

  47. e mills says:

    love that Kruk has to do women’s softball

  48. Kevin G. says:

    Ooh, Modern Warfare 2.

  49. How in the hell did “Leverage” get picked up? Did people actually watch it? It looked awful.

  50. yankeefan91 Arod fan says:

    Heres a pic of Arod and mo at the cavs and magic game.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ph.....cda107%3A1

  51. Jeter believer says:

    it is great they stick him with softball, it suits him

  52. pat says:

    Damn, LBJ with two amazing plays omn the same posession.

  53. conor Cashel says:

    they just called mo “mario romero”

    • Drew says:

      It wasn’t “they.” “They” is Reginald Miller. I think he gets a pass, he knows what Mariano’s name is he just slipped up.

  54. kunaldo says:

    wow, i just saw fatcesa vs. alex…that guy is a goon man…how can anybody respect this guy? just yelling over people to get your point across?

    this remix is kinda funny though

    http://forums.nyyfans.com/show.....stcount=33

  55. [...] to the Associated Press, Xavier Nady is well on his way toward a mid-June Bronx return. As Joe noted last night, Nady went 2-for-5 in an Extended Spring Training game with one longball. More promising, though, [...]

  56. trourpant says:

    Can u rly get six pack abs frum using nitric oxide?

    this online site says you will : Nitric Oxide BodyBuilding

    apparently there is free trials?

  57. Can’t wait for the new call of duty to come out!!

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