Open Thread: Talk about the game
ByIt’s inevitable that on off-days we tend to shift the conversation to roster issues and other non-game ideas. Without a game to think about that night, we can take the time to stand back and reflect on how the team is doing, what’s going wrong, and what they can do to right it. Thankfully most thing are going well for the Yankees now. Yet the Joba debate rages on, and it was in full-force today. However, let’s get back to the game for a minute, even though there is none tonight.
Earlier this week Dave Pinto made some suggestions for FOX to improve their baseball coverage. Apparently ratings are down and FOX is looking for ways to change that. Pinto’s solution is an obvious one: talk about the game. We like to hear commentators talk about the player at bat, the pitcher who’s dealing, the current situation. Those are what make baseball interesting. That’s what will get viewers — or at least will turn off fewer of them. Who needs to hear endless prattling about PEDs yet again?
The big game of the week is not a soap box on which to pontificate about the state of the game, or the latest scandal, or anything else. That remains the province of studio shows, newspaper columns, and today, the internet. Talk about the game. Don’t spend an inning talking about steroids, with the pitches incidental to the discussion. Don’t interview a guest while a rally is underway. Leave that to Baseball Tonight and Ken Rosenthal’s columns. I don’t want to hear from the managers, I don’t want a special guest in the booth, I want the game covered. I want to know the pitch, the count, the result of the play.
I couldn’t possibly agree more with Pinto. Yet I realize that not everyone is going to feel the same way. Maybe some people do get their rocks off hearing about the latest scandal. Maybe some people would rather hear Buck and McCarver excoriate Alex Rodriguez for his moral shortcomings.
We’ll use this topic to kick off the open thread for the evening. Of course, it will move to other topics, and I have this feelings that Joba’s role will be one of them. Just call it a hunch. As always, any and all are welcome as you’re willing to speak civilly. So have at it.
Notes: From PeteAbe: Melky will travel with the team to Cleveland but will in all likelihood not play. Posada will be activated tomorrow for sure. No word on who will be removed from the roster, though it’s certainly going to be among Cash, Cervelli, and Berroa. Nady went 2 for 5 with a homer in extended spring training.
Joba will be a starter, Cashman, Girardi and everyone else that matters knows that and people like Mike Francesca are just going to regret sounding so stupid.
I wish he would regret it, but I’m sure Francesca will be just as arrogant as ever
ifwhen Joba becomes a successful starter.Hypothetical question.. Matt Purke or Gerritt Cole? I’m not super familiar with Purker but I would think Cole, right?
Yep.
U know Bill Madden still uses that arguement that the yanks were morons to draft Cole cuz they should of known that Cole dad was supa rich and should of not drafted him. Ridiculous, it’s amaze me nobody has called him out on that lie.
He was a billionaire despite never being in Forbes!11!1!!1!
Speaking of Cole, Mike can you ever see the Yanks drafting him again? Not with a high pick, that’s just begging to have egg on your face, but with a lower pick where they offer him a similar deal to what they offered him last year?
Do you think that organizationally that bridge is burned, or as a business they won;t let personal feelings get in the way and will take him a second time foir the same reason they took him the first time, that he could be a great pitcher?
He won’t be eligible to be drafted until 2011. By then he’ll probably be a top 5 or top 10 guy and hopefully we wouldn’t have a chance to get him again.
I think the bridge might have been burned. But if he’s the best guy available, it wouldn’t shock me if they took him.
He has to consent to the Yanks drafting him again, and I’m sure he will since they can pay him more than anyone.
Incase anyone missed it. Thought this was kinda funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....popt00us02
Play them off, keyboard cat!
Oh, UConn. I’m sure I’ll miss thee.
(Now send me my goddamn diploma)
Hahaha thats awesome.
So if KFC’s new commercial… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSXFw_T23eM
Wow…
haha that’s my kind of commercial.
Reason # 1 why steroids should be in baseball… lol
No McCarver/Buck, no problem.
Krukky is where he belongs, calling girls softball games on ESPN.
Well u guys can watch game 5 of the Cavs/Magic game.
As much as I like LeBron, the more I see the Cavs playing as poorly as they have, the more likely (I hope) that he goes to the Knickerbockers after next year. ::crosses fingers::
I’m with you.
Definitely man. With D’Antoni’s system, LeBron would be ridiculous, borderline unfair, against the rest of the league.
I really have a hard time believing that LeBron would leave Cle. I really just don’t see it.
I think if you take LeBron off that team, Cleveland is just about the same team skill wise as the Knicks and given how LeBron wants to be a global icon, Walsh taking over for Isiah, and how much LeBron loves New York we have a pretty good shot. Not saying we’re gonna get him, but the cards look like they’re stacked in our favor.
I will say this, while I have a very hard time believing he will leave Cle and I think he will eventually sign an extension, if he does leave, I think no question he comes to the knicks.
I think that’s where it’s headed. It’s probably 90% that he’s staying, but most of that other 10% is in NY
As do I, but I think that if he wins the championship this year or next year, there is no way he is leaving, etched it stone, forget about it. If he loses the next two years, with the best supporting cast he’s had thus far, maybe he thinks it’s time for a fresh start. New York City, D’Antoni’s system, a new start, and probably a similar chance at the title. It’s slightly tempting, or atleast I’d like to think.
I think it’s the reverse, if he wins a championship in Cle, it sorta increases his chances of leaving for the simple fact that he did what he was suppose to do since he was drafted by cle which is bringing a championship home. If he does that, he did his job and if he leaves, he leaves with really no regrets and harsh feelings and closiness.
If he doesn’t, then I think leaving cle would make him look like a villian. I think Cle will build a legit championship team around him and make him as happy as possible. LeBron REALLY wants to win a championship in Cle to sullified closiness in Cle. That has been his mission since he was drafted.
Does anybody here think the Phillies have any chance of trading for Jake Peavy?
So Myers out for a while. They needed 1 starter before, now they need two! Who do you all think is a fit?
Bedard makes sense.
Do they have the pieces to get Bedard, though? From what I understand their minor league system is rather sparse.
My thoughts exactly.
Eh, Carlos Carrasco, Michael Taylor, Lou Marson, Dominic Brown, John Mayberry, they have a decent group of prospects that they can trade.
Speaking of, Lehigh Valley is playing Buffalo on SNY, right now.
Maybe Penny too.
I heard Gammons say the Red Sox “might consider” trading Penny if they could get back a “Justin Smoak type player” and I’m not kidding.
It must be nice to live in Gammonsland. A magical world where everyone lives to help the Red Sox.
How does he say that with a straight face?
You know, the Yanks might consider trading Kei Igawa if they could get back a “Tommy Hanson type player”
i might consider dating Jessica Alba if she paid for dinner.
IETC
With a gerbil up his ass, no less.
He says to me: Brodie, how the hell else am I supposed to get the gerbil out of there? My cousin Walter was a weird guy.
Usual vault rules apply: Touch not, lest ye be touched.
I was gonna teach you how to handle comics in the sixth grade. But you wnated to play Little League instead.
There is something out there that can help ease our simultaneous double loss.
Ritual suicide?
No, you idiot! The f*cking mall!
I heard Gammons say the Red Sox “might consider” trading Penny if they could get back a “Justin Smoak type player” and I’m not kidding.
come on. i’m not questioning your integrity here, but i mean…COME ON. there is no way he said that.
ok, i know he could have said it, but….COME ON.
What would Guthrie cost them?
Figures Myers goes down right after he beats us.
That game was frustrating as hell. Bombs away Brett showed up, giving up three homers, but of course, no one was on base.
Pedro looked good in the WBC, he’s no # 2 but he can give some solid starts for a very low cost.
Via the Deadspin twitter account:
Random email from Dspin reader: “I know people that know people, but Halladay for Carrasco, and a couple of prospects, stay tuned.” FREAKOUT
they do have a few good-great prospects and of course philly is looking to repeat but it would most definitely leave their farm system in shambles a la the mets.
that said, as the phils are my national league team, i’m staying tuned.
Anything that gets Halladay out of the damn division.
How do you all think the roster is going to look after the allstar break? you think we will have the bullpen/bench in order?
I think as soon as Nady, Molina and Posada come back, the bench will be in order.
Once Jorge and Nady come back, the bench looks like 84 times better.
I agree. You have to assume that fans of the respective teams playing on FOX will tune in no matter what. When I watch other teams, I want to hear about their players, who is coming up in their system, who is hot, who is cold, who may get traded, history about the players in the game, and most importantly, commentating of what is actually happening in game … what relievers are used in certain situations, who their pinch runners are, etc … But, you never get this analysis. They talk about what celebrities are in the stands, wearing brown shoes (I literally remember McCarver and Buck go on and on about brown shoes for an entire inning), the history of steroids, A-Rod, etc … There is no point in listening or turning into the game. I learn nothing about the teams playing.
Agree.
I don’t even watch Fox games when the Yanks are playing, because I hate Buck/McCarver so much. McCarver is a baseball guy, so given appropriate direction he may be salvageable, but Buck seems to hate baseball (and even football for that matter), so he needs to go.
I know a lot of people hate Berman, but he at least seems to have fun at the game, whereas Buck doesn’t seem to want to be there at all.
(I only mention Berman as an example of a good attitude for an announcer to have)
Berman’s enthusiasm is nice and all, but he backs it up with….nothing, haha.
Here was my take on that. Too much to post here.
http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/?p=3802
But TV is a dying medium and has been for over a decade. If they want bigger ratings, they should get creative.
Hey who u guys got winning the Stanley Cup?
As much as I love Pittsburgh, I really don’t know how they’re gonna stop Detroit.. That team looks ready to steamroll its way to another Cup.
Detroit in 5.
Pens in 7. It’ll go 7 whether Detroit or Pittsburgh wins, one hell of a series, but I’ll go PIT.
The Whalers.
..says the CT guy. Nice! I’m pretty sure I’ve got a child’s medium-sized Dineen jersey crammed in an attic box somewhere!
Pens. Just a hunch.
The what?
The West Minister Rhinos
Not sure if anyone heard this, but Andrew Marchand had some interesting stuff on Wang today.
http://sports.espn.go.com/stat.....id=4213308
He said that the Yanks told Wang NOT to exercise his legs as usual this off season, due to the Lisfranc fracture. Makes sense, they don’t have much experience with the injury (no one in Baseball does) and he did injure his foot by simply running.
But now Cashman views that as a mistake, he clearly wasn’t strong enough to start the season and the lack of work goes a long way to explaining his problems this year. Live and learn, I suppose.
But this also makes me think he should be able to return to form at some point this year, which was something I had serious doubts about before.
I know you’ve had your doubts with Wanger, but you’ve got to be patient. The mistake has already been done, he should have had 2 more starts in AAA (at least). Now we have to deal with it and get him in games.
Wang will be Wang by the season’s end, you can mark that down. This guy nearly won a CY a couple years ago, that doesn’t happen by accident.
No but pitchers get injured all the time and come back as a shell of their former selves. I could roll off 15 names off the top of my head of guys who had lights out, dominating stuff and then got hurt and never returned to form. And not just shoulder injuries, either. You can’t assume someone will come back 100% until he does it.
Fucking Alan Horne took 3 years to fully recover from Tommy John, wheras other guys come back in one. You never know with injuries, everyone is different and how hard they rehab is often a big factor.
Do you honestly think that a broken foot will be the demise of Chien Ming Wang?
It’s certainly possible, it ended Dizzy Dean’s career.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizzy_Dean
There’s a lot more to delivering a pitch than just the arm, the rest of the body provides most of the torque and needs to sit on a solid foundation.
C’mon man, 1934!!1!? I hear there’s been some advancements in the medical field since then.
It seems to me that you’re approaching Wanger with a lot of pessimism.
More like ‘wait and see’. There’s no need to rush.
I agree on that, that’s why it just sucks that he’s sittin in the friggin pen…
Exactly. I wouldn’t be surprised to this be a year in the wilderness for Wang, and for him to show up to ST 2010 and have a 2006-2008 type year.
I think Dean ruined his career not because of his foot, but because he tried to pitch through his foot injury, which altered his delivery and…etcetera, etcetera.
Right, and Cashman thinks that’s why Bruney hurt his elbow.
Jonathan Mayo of MLB.COM has the Rangers taking Purke with their 14th pick. He only predicted 1-20. Is this a strong possibility, or should Purke fall lower?
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p;c_id=mlb
Donovan Tate not in the top 20?
Whats the deal with Raul Ibanez??? The guy turns 37 in a few days and he’s on pace to easily set career highs across the board and make a run at an MVP. Test him for roids now!
HGH does wonders for anybody
You would know?
Yeah actually lol. I train at Bev Francis powerhouse out of syosset NY. HGH/Test and many pro hormones are highly encouraged by fellow members there. I have only cycled on Methyl-vol prohormone a few months back, but i’ve seen first hand what kind of confidence an athlete gets when he ontains a competetive edge knowing he probably won’t get caught.
I agree, I’m a weightlifter and I’ve had many different synthetics and precursors pass my way. HGH is not a steroid, that’s my whole contention to the “he’s taking HGH” thought. Maybe it will give them confidence but it won’t change them from Raul Ibanez to The Babe.
I know there’s really no statistical evidence to back this up but I’m a firm believer that surroundings can have an effect on a guy’s performance. Some guys don’t mind or prefer to play on a shitty team in an empty stadium and just chug along and put up their numbers. Maybe a guy like Ibanez is invigorated playing for a good team in front of sellout crowds every night. Obviously hes not a 180 OPS+ guy, but combine a hot start with being on a WS contender, maybe he’s just stepping up.
I agree, he’s like Swisher, minus the cliff…
I’d rather test Ortiz. Wasn’t his trainer accused of giving out PED’s to other players?
Jason Varitek has TEN HRs, it’s not even June.
i don’t think it’s PEDs, i think it’s the ball.
something has changed that has boosted HRs 10% around the league. it’s not just NYS. there is something else contributing to it.
Ibanez was consistently putting up great numbers in Seattle, one of the best pitcher’s parks in the league… then he goes to Philly, one of the best parks for hitters. I can’t say I’m shocked, drafted him in every fantasy league I did(except for the RAB alternative league of course). It’s a combination of a hot streak and talent. He’ll cool off.
“Last night, on the ESPN broadcast of the Yankees/Rangers game. Rick Sutcliffe said that Mark Teixeira has been getting more fastballs since Alex Rodriguez came back from a torn labrum.
I know that I have written about this before, about how Tex was a great hitter and was going to get hot about that time anyway, as he does every single year. But now I have some evidence.
Dave Allen over at The Baseball Analysts wrote a good piece questioning whether or not Milton Bradley was in fact getting balls out of the strike zone called against him more often.
So I posed a question, and asked him if he could tell me if Tex had actually been seeing more fastballs since the return of ARod.
His response:
“Joe, yeah that is very easy to check with the pitchf/x data. It looks to me like before May 8th Tex was thrown 288 fastballs out of 479 pitches, about 60%. Since May 8th he has seen 167 fastballs of 287 pitches, 58%. He has seen fewer fastballs since A-Rod has been back, but the difference is small.”
http://www.statisticianmagician.com/?p=158
Another thing we’ve heard repeated a zillion times lately, which turns out to be totally false.
To me it’s not about fastballs, it’s about hittable pitches.
Damn, got me by a full three minutes.
teixeira is awesome. could not be happier he is a yankee.
but he starts off slowly every year. why do we need another reason to explain why he did what he does every season? same with Sabathia.
Thats what your mama said after a quickie! OHHHHHHHHH
ohhh u dead dawg…
Maybe now the fastballs are in the strikezone instead of just outside?
He’s clearly more comfortable at the plate. Put the return of alex back in the lineup, more ABs into the season, more pitches to hit, and you have an AL MVP candidate
word.
This is a game of inches(cliche):-) there’s alot more to it than how many fastballs he has seen. A whole lot of other factors have to be taken into consideration.
Don’t attempt to muddy the waters. The direct quote is “He’s seeing a lot MORE fastballs” and he isn’t.
+/- Mark Teixeira winning AL MVP, Gold Glove at first, Silver Slugger
I’d feel confident he wins 2 outta 3 of those
I’d prefer WS MVP over all three put together……
+1 !
got the glove, pukilis may win the slugger, not too sure about mvp yet. I’d say 1/3.
Youkilis is a first half hitter, Tex is a second half hitter. Let’s wait a while before giving Youk the silver slugger.
Dude, I friggin hate youkilis. He’s going to have a high avg at the end of the season though.
did you guys ever notice how friggin’ HUGE Mark Teixeira is?
he’s like the width of a doorway.
Does anyone know anything about Matt Graham?
http://baseball.uaallamerica.c.....hew-Graham
That guy?
If you google him, the first link that comes up is “Welcome to Dirtbag Baseball”, so clearly he has a future with the Red Sox.
(Also, it’s hilarious how gritty-type players went from being called “dirt dogs” to “dirtbags”)
I’m more interested in seeing Hughes, Swish, and CC courtside than I am in this game’s first 46 minutes.
me too have they showed em yet?
Not yet.
Fantasy: Derek Lowe for Jayson Werth, fair trade?
So as of right now, per RLYW, Jeter has the 3rd most runs saved at SS. What are the chances of that staying up? I can easily see him overtaking Bartlett and Scutaro in terms of Pos. Adj. Batting Runs and being the best hitting SS in the AL this year, but if he keeps the fielding up too…man, it’s gonna be a good year for the Yanks.
Post was edited earlier today, but so far he’s about average: -1 runs overall per ZR, and -0.1 per UZR, for a 0.7 UZR/150.
While his numbers aren’t top of the league, if he can be average or slightly below average, that’s huge.
I cant frickin wait for the mlb draft.
If we get a repeat of last year I’ma be pissssssed
Haha yeah I hear you. I just want to get to the point where all we do is draft high ceiling highschool guys and turn our farm in to a friggin baseball factory.
Anybody have MLB 09 the show?
I’m looking to buy 360 or PS3 and I think i’m gonna go w/ playstation
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-403968
I have it for PS2. It’s absolutely great.
Playstation, I just got my ps3 actually and MLB 09 the show is AMAZING. Graphics, game features, the music feature, online play. It’s just great.
I have a PS3 and the Show. Absolutely love it, can’t recommend it enough, great game, great system. I don’t know how many of my friends have the 360 and have got that “Ring of Death” the latest happening 3 days ago. Never had any problems with my PS3, they’re coming over and playing my system while theirs is being mailed back and fixed
I DL’d the demo on ps3, it’s aight. I stick with NHL 09, Fifa and tiger woods. PS3 is so legit.
Stan Van Gundy sounds like he’s crying.
yeah I’ve seen screen shots . I love how they have commentary too. its just so realistic .
Whats your guys opinions on MLB Front office feat. Billy Beane?
It sucks. Get The Show instead, it has all the same features and you can actually play the games.
They did a review of the game on the site (I think Mike did it?) when it came out. Search for that thread and you’ll find lots of talk about it, probably.
Is Jober at the NBA game too?
Yes, but he will only show up in the 4th quarter.
ietc
***ACCENT SHALLOW DO NOT READ THIS*******
The Jesus hath gone deep twice tonight. He also has a sacrifice bunt.. haha.
And holy crap the team they’re playing has committed 7 errors so far.
ietd (disclaimer)
Joba: 2-1, 3.97, 1.57, no reliable bullpen arms, short of that 51 year old guy who’s supposed to close.
Enough is enough, right? Consider his starting a mistake and move on.
Why is all of NY so moronic about this issue. Joba belongs in the pen, period. Get that through your think fuggin skulls.
IETC.
Oh, he was serious. Ugh.
Damn straight. Why is it that you people cannot see the obvious?
Joba (as he’s presently used) or Masterson (as he is), who ya got.
Masterson, of course. He can relieve, start, shut down, damn, pretty much do anything. But Joba? nah, he comes in every week and throws 5 nondescript innings, having zero impact on the game.
having zero impact on the game.
Ladies and gentlemen, John Kruk.
Come back to me when Masterson can get lefties out and strike out 12 in 5.2 innings against a team like…the Red Sox.
It’s funny because you think it’s true.
Joba’s last 5 games:
1) Gets busted in Boston
2) Beats BALT. Whoopee
3) No decision after 6 IP in MIN after walking 4 guys
4) Leaves BALT game with injury
5) Goes 4 IP vs TEX, in a game NYY ultimately loses
Wake up and smell the coffee, boys.
Joba has a better ERA in more innings than masterson this year. Just STFU and troll somewhere else
You still didn’t answer my remark on Masterson. So is Masterson really better than Joba?
Talent-wise, no. Performance-wise, you have got to be shitting me. Of course he’s better.
Chamberlain ERA= 3.97
Masterson ERA= 4.24
You were saying?
Trolls don’t respond to facts that refute whatever bullshit they are spewing at the moment.
Who cares about numbers? most care about impact to the game. Joba presently has no impact whatsoever. Masterson can be utilized in so many different ways he is unquestionably the more valuable player.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA
Good, yes you’re right Masterson is much better good job.
Joba in the rotation impacts the game much more than Joba in the bullpen. More innings >>> more games.
For the sake of objectivity, I looked up some numbers on FanGraphs. Masterson actually has been more valuable to this point in the season than Chamberlain, 1.1 WAR to 0.5 WAR. I do, however, expect that to change over the course of the season.
1. Got busted in one inning. Dominated thereafter and kept the Yankees in the game.
2. I guess games against the Orioles don’t count in the standings, huh?
3. Still only allowed two runs and struck out 6.
4. Fluky. Shit happens.
5. Considering that he pulled a Dice-BB and allowed 8 base runners in 4 IP but only 3 scored, whilst striking out 5 with not great stuff, I’ll take it.
I had a feeling a B-Jobber would bring up that injury. Of the less than sound premises one can bring up in support of that argument, HOW IN THE WORLD DOES HIM GETTING HIT BY A LINE DRIVE SUPPORT THAT CLAIM?
EXCUSES
Fact is, Matt, you cannot deny that Joba controlled the latter innings when he pitched them but you have to make excuses for him while he does not. That’s the fact, jack.
All you’re arguments are moot. You want to put Joba in the pen? Who the hell takes his spot? Sure as hell won’t be Wang. Let’s see if a B-Jobber actually answers a damn question.
He’s also shown the ability to dominate the earlier innings as well. So, yeah, I’m not gonna panic because he’s not the Cy Young favorite in May of his first full season starting.
No doubt, but nothing he can do is translating to the field, so really, who gives a rat’s ass?
Put him where he helps. That’s suppoed to be the rule of good management.
I don’t follow. How does the line drive game make an argument for either side?
So when it happens to the Yankees its regarded as an “excuse” but say the same thing happens to a Sox player. I’m sure you’d be making the same “excuse”.
He helps more in the rotation. The hole he’d fix in the bullpen is much smaller than the hole he’d leave in the rotation.
I guess the fact that he has more strikeouts than innings pitched impacts nothing? Come on, you’re not a “numbers” guy but to say that has no impact is just ridiculous.
Then again, putting Joba in the ‘pen makes the Yankees a weaker team so it does make sense for a Sox fan to want that.
[b]Put him where it helps. [/b]
That’s the starting rotation. If you fail to see that then you need to actually start learning the current state the Yankees.
Strikeout. Talent. What could be.
All trivial. His ability does not translate to starting. That (and the fact that NYY does not carry another setup reliever) is all that should ever matter.
You do realize that (aside from late 2007- early 2008) Joba has been a starter his entire Yankees career and in high school.
Nice to completely ignore one huge question on this debate. Really, you’re smart. Now let’s see if you answer this time. I’ll even bold it.
WHO DO WE PUT IN JOBA’S PLACE IF WE PUT HIM BACK IN THE BULLPEN?
And they just called up Robertson. Pretty soon we’ll hear from Melancon. Joba will never go back to the bullpen no matter how many time you try to reassure yourself.
Then again you’re a Sox fan so what I’m saying is falling onto deaf ears.
How about Penny?
lol
lol
DON’T FEED THE TROLLS
So 2008 w/a 2.76 ERA, 1.301 WHIP, and 2.96 K/BB didn’t happen?
I guess no young pitchers ever struggle. Ever. They’re all like Timmy L. and win CYA’s right off the bat.
You’re a Sox fan, right? If Papelfuck was able to pitch 200 innings w/o having shoulder issues, wouldn’t you want him in the rotation?
It would be hilarious watching Papelbon trying and get through the lineup multiple times with just a fastball. Hilarious.
Let’s be fair, his splitter is fucking ridiculous. But relievers have two pitches, and Papelbon has…two pitches.
Papelbon is an excellent example. On a team that can provide other solid solutions at starter, he’s utilized instead as the closer, where he conducts 3 of the best closer years in ML history.
Would I rather he started? duh, no.
On a team that can provide other solid solutions at starter
Brad Penny?
Really? So if he were strong enough to start and had a workable third pitch, you’d rather have Brad Penny pitching 150-200 innings than Papelbon? Really? REALLY? REALLY?
Really. And the same question to you: Would you have rather had Mo start for this past decade instead?
Of course not.
The Yanks tried Mo as a starter. He failed. He also wasn’t half the prospect Joba was.
There really is no comparison. Mo just happen to click in the pen, but only after he failed as a starter. He was also 26 when the Yanks moved him to the pen. Joba is 23.
They tried?
Oh, please, now you’re contradicting yourself. Mo was given exactly 10 starts with NY before he was converted. Yes, Michael knew exactly what he was doing by doing so, but no, he did not get the same opportunity you are asking they give Joba.
10 starts and Mo was converted. 21 starts by Joba and you all are still waiting.
If he didn’t suck as a starter, definitely.
Bbecause starting pitching means nothing!!!!!!!!!!!1111
EVERYONE KNOWS ITS TEH 8TH IS WHERE ITS AT!!!!!!!!!!
Actually, Lincecum is a great comparison for Joba. Here are their stats (as starters only) through their age 23 season:
Lincecum: 4.00ERA 9.2K/9 0.7HR/9 4.0BB/9
Joba: 3.25ERA 9.8K/9 0.8HR/9 4.1BB/9
And remember that Lincecum was pitching in the power-house that is the NL west.
Oh I’m right on board with you. I fully believe Joba will be the Yankees’ version of Tim Lincecum. I’m just saying that not every young guy is gonna be Tim L. immediately.
Man, you’re placing a limit on Joba. I like to believe he will be better…with that said, I’ll be ecstatic if he pitches like Timmy every year.
Well this proves that
A: You know nothing of the Yankees and
B: You don’t live anywhere remotely close in NY
You know nothing of
the Yankeesthe sport known as baseball.Fixed.
If you had to pick one, which would you rather have.
Jon Lester
or
Jon Papelbon
(remember you have to play by the rules and pick only 1)
But theyre both cy young candidates!!!11
in fact all these pitchers have teh shot of winning cy young
Josh Beckett
Jon Lester
Brad Penny
Daisuke Matuszaka
Jonathan Papel Bon
Manny Delcarmen
John Smoltz
Justin Masterson
Clay Bucholz
You forgot Bard and Bowden, even though they are in the minors. I guarantee the CY Young, MVP, GG, Silver Slugger, and Spahn winner will come from that group.
/Gammonsed
But Zack Grienke does not deserve the Cy Young because he isn’t one of the gritty Red Sox.
In my last gasp of freedom before finals through next Friday, I watched the Ultimate Lax Bro video, and it needs to be shown here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqg01Nk3SYI
Jesus has 2 Homeruns tonight so far. 7 for the season.
Niiiice.
d00d is going to be scary good. I don’t want to put the Pujols/Miguel Cabrera/Vladimir Guerrero label on his bat…. but that’s the comps.
There are the Yankees!
Loek Van Mil is a 7′1″(!!!) pitcher for the Ft. Myers Miracle
http://www.theonion.com/conten.....=a-section
CC Interview at Cavs game.
A-ROD, MO, AND C.C. SIGHTING
Bruney was to CC’s right as well sitting down.
Why does A-ROD look like Selena Roberts is sitting next to him?
Just Chillin
I’d love to see a Jeter, CC, A-rod, A-Jax, and maybe even Mo (as he is athletic enough I think) in a pickup game.
Heh, the Cavs deserve to lose this one.
I want them to win but yeah. They deserve to lose for making it this close after leading by 22 points.
Found this from Jerome Presseslier on YES:
“An 18th round draft pick in 2004, he was a right-handed, flame-throwing starter with an attitude who shot up through the team’s farm system as a starting pitcher, made his Major League debut the next year in both starting and relief roles, and eventually became a late-inning reliever due to another player’s ineffectiveness out of the bullpen. As the 2006 season approached, the team continued to see him as an eventual starter, but his particular mental and physical makeup, and the team’s short — and longterm needs, led them to review and eventually revise their plans for him.
His name was Jonathan Papelbon and, as the team’s closer, he has been critical to the Red Sox’s success over the past several seasons.”
-Don’t you love Presslier’s selective reporting? Correct me if I’m wrong, but the reason the Sox kept Papelbon in the pen was because he has a history of arm injuries and they didn’t think he would be able to hold up as a starter. (Either that or they realized that nobody could stand to look at the jackass for the extended length of time that a starter is usually kept in a game).
There’s also the tiny matter of Jonathan Papelbon not being an 18th round pick in 2004. Papelbon was a 4th rounder in ‘03; Randall Beam was their 18th rounder in ‘04.
And the whole Papelbon-not-being-a-starter-in-college thing.
Wasn’t he also a reliever in college?
So the Sox tried to convert him into a starter correct?
Because starting pitching is more valuable?
So if the Theo/Sox believe that starting pitching is more valuable than relief pitching…doesn’t that make it 10000% true?
Generally, starters are more valuable than relievers. But when you’re talking about spazzes like Paps ands Joba, where their stuff translates so much better to short-inning adrenaline rush situations, well, it’s my opinion that they’re both better suited for the bullpen.
Paps has not proven that. Joba just cannot get the opportunity because Cashman apparently forgot that he spent oodles of George’s cash for two starters this year, and he still does not have a bullpen.
No, he has proven that!
I think the error you’re making here is taking certain characteristics you can see on the baseball field and ascribing them to certain roles. But what about Mo? He’s the polar opposite of Papelbon in terms of how he comports himself.
I don’t see how Joba’s stuff translates better in the pen. He has three excellent pitches and a change he can break out to throw guys off. That’s a starter’s repertoire.
I also think it’s foolish to cite his numbers this year and use it to say he will be ineffective as a starter in the future. Plenty, plenty of starters have struggled out of the gate. Greg Maddux and Roy Halladay come to mind.
Joba not pacing himself >>>>> Joba pacing himself.
Sorry, but that is beyond obvious.
Everyone looks better when he goes out there and throws as hard as he can. That doesn’t mean it’s what he should be doing or that it’s more valuable to the team. In terms of value to the team, Joba pacing himself and giving 150-200 innings >>>> Joba going all out for 70-80 innings.
their stuff translates so much better to short-inning adrenaline rush situations
You could say that about literally any pitcher who throws in the mid-90s. Do you think the Yankees and Sox should put Burnett and Beckett in the ‘pen? Both of them are high intensity, adrenaline heavy pitchers, who can fuckin’ bring it.
Good point.
But mine is that if Hughes may finally be busting through, and if Wang works, what exactly is the point of having Joba pitch 5 innings every week when he could very well, single-handedly resolve NYY atrocious bullpen?
So let’s get to that point. Let’s see Hughes throw a few more solid starts. Let’s see Wang show he can “work” with some relief appearances. If both of those pan out, and Joba is still throwing only 5-inning starts, then lets’ talk. Until then, they shouldn’t mess with what they’ve got.
+1
Next year will be too late. This may be a consider-the-source moment for you but I say there is no way your Yanks do damage in the AL East without a radical change to their pen. That mess will just not work.
Except for the fact that they’re currently .5 back from first, and would probably be tied if not for an off day.
Not letting Joba develop properly develop as a starter will be much more harmful to the Yankees long term than not putting him in the bullpen for the rest of ‘09. A rotation next year of:
Sabathia
Burnett
Wang
Chamberlain
Hughes
is good. Really, really good.
and he didn’t have 4 MLB-caliber pitches like Joba…
How many Johns are here?
1) He was a 4th round pick in 2003.
2) He was a college closer.
It’s not selective reporting. It’s incorrect reporting.
Just a regular day at the office for Bill Madden. [Yes, I know he wasn't the author of this particular article, but he is perpetually incorrect in his articles on the Yankees, especially when it comes to the farm system or amateur baseball. Jeremy Bleich having TJS, anyone? Gerrit Cole being the son of a billionaire, foks?]
Hey guys don’t forget. Do not let the facts get in the way of an argument.
Facts are overrated. You argue by completely ignoring a good point made by your opponent and putting words in their mouth to make you seem smarter.
AND THEN SCREAMING LIKE THIS
And then by insulting everyone’s intelligence to make to seem like you actually knwo what you’re talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Papelbon
Actually it says here he was was drafted in 2003 in the 4th round but he didn’t sign, then he was drafted in the 18th round in 2004.
But, yeah, Preisler totally ignores his shoulder issues which were the REAL reasons he couldn’t start.
32 IP for Lowell in 2003.
So just out of curiosity: Did you “find it” on YES because we linked to it at 3:30 yesterday afternoon? I’m just wondering.
I honestly didn’t see the link you guys posted, sorry about that. Didn’t mean to step on your toes there. I usually read The Pinstriped Bible, and found that over there tonight as well. So you guys found it first.
Oh don’t worry about it. I’m just ribbing you for it. I’m glad when people find that stuff on their own.
Haha, alright. I tend to read a lot on the Yankees, although many times I will admit that you guys do point me in the right direction with the posts and links on your blog. Actually, your blog has made keeping up on the Yankees much more fun and interesting because of the constant analysis, discussion, and debate that goes on here. So thank you.
I’m one John. From now on, I’ll go by John C. Haha sorry about that, other John.
oh no problem…i was just asking
stop having conversations with yourself
that’s really not me…im not John C.
Here’s Phil Hughes pitch f/x data for his start against the Rangers from the lovely Brooks Baseball:
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/.....evDate=525
Some interesting stuff in there, particularly how they’re not entirely sure what to make of the cutter, calling it a cutter or a slider depending on the movement.
And for all the harping on velocity, the fastest pitch they recorded was 92.8 (and it looks like he only threw 6 pitches faster than 92), but he still was fine.
Additionally, a grand total of one (1) changeup was thrown, although that could just have been a slow cutter.
My biggest thing Phil has never been his velocity. It seems that at times he has the pinpoint command we heard about for years and there are other times when he has no idea where the ball is going and can’t locate his curveball.
When he is locating, he is very difficult to hit.
I’m always impressed by how tight Phil’s release point is.
Word, technical mastery at such a young age is UUUUUUUUGE.
Wow the Cavas were outscored 45-24 since they had a lead of 32-10. Just a terrible job there.
Wow Orl with the lead 60-56.
Quick draft question – any chance the Yankees take the injured Luke Bailey in the 2nd round? Is that a reach?
He won’t make it to the second round.
Ah, gotcha – I see him ranked in the early 50s – prolly won’t make it to 76.
Not only that, but, as someone mentioned around here recently, good catchers are overvalued, and Bailey is pretty good and athletic, so he could be gone even before the Yanks pick.
1st round? Yeah, except for the Tommy John surgery.
From Neyer:
David Ortiz isn’t looking any better. Early in the game, he managed to snap his bat while swinging and missing. And later, he missed some eminently hittable pitches while striking out, then broke that bat across his knee while striding through the dugout. I just can’t figure out what letting him continue to struggle, day after day, is accomplishing. I guess when you’re in first place, you can do whatever you like.
First place by half a game just because we didn’t play. They can’t do whatever they like.
did that cavs fan really just make the choke sign toward the magic bench?? your team had a 20 pt lead!!!!
I blame Mo for the BJobber debate. If he wasn’t so good people would stop thinking closers were more important than starters.
Dick.
and you could blame JoPo as he originally was a B-Jobber but has come to his senses now.
That conversation with the caller by francessa was uncalled for really. the caller didnt yell at him, so he had no reason to yell.
I really wanna win one of those contests where you go to a game with him. then ill read off the long list of why bjobbers are wrong.
BUT ANDY PETTITTE IS A STARTING PITCHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT IM SMARTER THAN EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD!!!!!!!!!
Hmm I posted a link but I forgot to write anything in the text box. I guess it was eaten by the spam filter.
Here it is again:
http://tinyurl.com/lde5n8
Francessa is very entertaining
That’s the video that made me say that! Lol.
Hilarious.
ANDY PETTITTE IS A STARTING PITCHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ATROCIOUS!!!
There is a draft chat tomorrow on milb.com for anyone who is interested.
Man, the Cavs have really choked in this series.
love that Kruk has to do women’s softball
Ooh, Modern Warfare 2.
Looks sick.
looks pretty cool
How in the hell did “Leverage” get picked up? Did people actually watch it? It looked awful.
Heres a pic of Arod and mo at the cavs and magic game.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ph.....cda107%3A1
it is great they stick him with softball, it suits him
Damn, LBJ with two amazing plays omn the same posession.
they just called mo “mario romero”
It wasn’t “they.” “They” is Reginald Miller. I think he gets a pass, he knows what Mariano’s name is he just slipped up.
wow, i just saw fatcesa vs. alex…that guy is a goon man…how can anybody respect this guy? just yelling over people to get your point across?
this remix is kinda funny though
http://forums.nyyfans.com/show.....stcount=33
OMG that was hilarious.
Can u rly get six pack abs frum using nitric oxide?
this online site says you will : Nitric Oxide BodyBuilding
apparently there is free trials?