Jul
20

Cashman draws obvious parallel between Halladay and Santana

By

Over the next 12 days we’re going to hear plenty more about Roy Halladay. Whether or not the Blue Jays actually intend to trade their 32-year-old ace, the media will continue to speculate. And why not? It makes for a good deadline storyline. Brian Cashman wants to put a damper on that. Not only has he implied that the Yankees will not empty the farm for Halladay, but he also pointed out the meaninglessness of the trade deadline this year.

To those clamoring for Halladay, Cashman refers back to the Johan Santana situation:

“I’m very comfortable with the decision we made back with the Santana situation,” he said. “Right now, we’ve got Sabathia where the Santana money is, I’ve got a center fielder in Melky, I’ve got Phil Hughes performing for us, and I’ve got Swisher in right, which Jeffrey Marquez was in the deal to help me get.

“So right now, I believe the organization is in a better position because of that type of decision-making. I know people still like to debate it. Debate all they want, I think it was the smart and right move, and we’re stronger than we would have been with one player and the money attached to the player without all the extra players we have now.”

Yes, the Yankees have Sabathia with the Santana money, but remember that Sabathia was no guarantee. The Yankees had to see him actually hit free agency (as they didn’t see with Santana), and then had to convince him to come to New York. While it’s hard to see someone turning down $161 million, two legendary pitchers have in the past. The gamble paid off for the Yankees. But if the economic conditions were different, would it have been as easy to get CC to accept money over geographic preference?

Still, the plan did work. They had an idea of what they wanted to do, and it succeeded. They’ve gotten production out of Melky and Hughes this year, and turned Marquez into Swisher. The presence of those players has helped the Yankees get to where they are today, which is a strong position in baseball’s toughest division.

Some say that the Yankees are in a different place right now, and that the new circumstances call for the Yankees to pursue Halladay. Adding him, so goes the reasoning, gives the Yanks an unmatched top of the rotation. That’s certainly true, but in baseball there are no guarantees. Even a rotation headed by Sabathia, Halladay, and Burnett wouldn’t guarantee the Yankees a World Series. It sure would help, but transactions like this come with no promises.

There’s obviously room for debate on this issue, but it’s pretty clear where the Yankees come down. They could just be setting a smoke screen, as they did when addressing the question of signing both Teixeira and Sabathia. Given the way Cashman has behaved with his prospects to this point, it’s a bit difficult to call his bluff in this case.

As to the trade deadline, Cashman says that it doesn’t matter as much this year because teams won’t be so quick to put in claims. He mentions that in 2000, he and Mets’ GM Steve Phillips would put in claims to block competitors from trading for a player. With many teams looking to shed payroll, they could well let certain players, and their salaries, go if another team claims them. Therefore, there could be a bit more activity in August than we’ve seen in previous years.

It could be a rather uninteresting deadline for the Yankees. They’ll continue to evaluate the back end of their rotation, knowing they could possibly swing a trade later on. As far as Halladay goes, though, even if J.P. Ricciardi were willing to trade him within the division, it doesn’t appear the Yankees are takers right now.

Categories : Front Office

175 Comments»

  1. Thomas A. Anderson says:

    I don’t see Cash trading Montero or Phil or Joba to get Hallday. They are the crown jewels of his farm system movement he started in 2005.

    Yanks may take a stab at a half-decent reliever or 5th starter. No dice on Doc. And it’s the right move quite frankly.

  2. I still feel the smart move is to add a reliever instead of a back end starter. But that’s because I’m willing to move Hughes to the rotation, and apparently the team is not. So I’m spitting into the wind.

    • Mike Pop says:

      +1
      I hope marte is that guy though.

      • I’m still interested in Arthur Rhodes as a cheap-buy option. He’s death to lefties. They’re hitting .122/.200/.143 against him.

        Righties aren’t that much better, either: .203/.309/.356.

        • jsbrendog says:

          arthur rhodes = black jesse orosco

          he’ll just keep going and going and going and going. i thought he was out of baseball a couple yrs ago and all of a sudden he’s in seattle.

        • gxpanos says:

          Wow, I hadnt thought of Rhodes. Cash could probably get him for a song. Very interesting. How do those stats look in the AL East though, as opposed to the NL central? Plus, will General Joe be afraid to pitch him against righties, thus barring him from effectively and efficiently using the Coke/Rhodes combo?

          Rhodes is VERY interesting, my couple worries notwithstanding.

        • gc says:

          NAY on Arthur Rhodes. I’ve seen too many cases of this guy folding in big spots. He has rarely (if ever) recorded a big out…not with Baltimore, not with Seattle, not with Philly.

        • I Remember Celerino Sanchez says:

          I understand the numbers look good for Rhodes, but I wouldn’t let him buy a ticket for a Yankee Stadium tour, let alone let him actually don the pinstripes.

          I believe in letting the numbers lead the way almost as much as you do, tsjc. But there are lines I won’t cross. Rhodes is one of those lines. The Yanks have beaten him in every key confrontation. They guy melts under pressure. His post-season WHIP is 1.529. Here are his numbers v. the Yanks in the 2000 ALCS:

          4 games, 2 IP, 8 hits, 7 ER, 4 BB, 5 K (a 6.0 WHIP and 31.50 ERA). Yes, I know, I honed in on his one hugely bad series, but still … it’s Arthur Rhodes!

          I would rather see Mike Dunn and his 5.78 BB per 9 IP ratio and 2 AAA innings rather than Arthur Rhodes. Hell, I’d rather see you in there in a big spot rather than Arthur Rhodes. Are you a lefty?

            • I Remember Celerino Sanchez says:

              I admitted to that, but … nope. Not buying it. No Arthur Rhodes in the Bronx. Not now, not ever. Well, yes, he can come back on Old Timer’s Day after he retires so that the 1996-2000 championship teams can abuse him again.

            • Chris says:

              I think there is something to the fact that the fans will get on him real bad as soon as he blows a game (which happens to every reliever). It’s certainly not right, but you know it will happen.

              Also, I can’t see Cashman acquiring him for that exact reason. He’s already spoken about how they passed on Albert Belle because they thought he couldn’t handle the pressure of playing in New York, and I assume they would have the same view of Arthur Rhodes.

          • JGS says:

            well, he has all of 17 postseason innings and most of those ugly numbers come from (as you point out) getting blitzed in the 2000 ALCS.

            I think the worst thing about his postseason stats is the 10 walks in 17 innings

    • Chris says:

      Acquiring a back-end starter would just be a waste. Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle with the trade, but it’s just as likely to completely blow up (see Loaiza, Esteban). If you’re going to get a starter, then get a good one.

      Getting a reliever wouldn’t cost much and could help shore up the pen for the second half. Of course, those can blow up just as easily (just ask Boston aboot Gagne)

    • Mike HC says:

      I think the Yankee’s are being coy with their plans for Hughes the rest of the year. They don’t want to seem desperate or show obvious holes on their major league roster. Their plan may very well be to add a reliever and put Hughes back into the rotation for the end of the year. Publically telling people that Hughes will be back in the rotation by the end of the year gives other teams a bit of leverage in trade talks for a reliever. Don’t lose hope quite yet Upside.

  3. Reggie C. says:

    Cashman sounds really mellow on the whole thing. Maybe he’s waiting to see what packages Philly, Milwaukee, or even LA put together before jumping into the fray. Still, i’d be shocked to see Cash change course and offer Joba or Hughes if the Red Sox aren’t really involved in the process.

    I’d be really interested to see what the Dodgers put together. Could they pull it off without parting with Billingsley or Kershaw?

  4. RAB poster says:

    I’m not calling a bluff, but after what happened this offseason, specifically with Texeira, these comments mean nothing at all to me.

    • Lanny says:

      Why would he ever say “i will trade for him”?? What GM tells the honest truth? He wouldnt be doing his job if he did

  5. Pasqua says:

    I just can’t see Ricciardi making this move without demanding a king’s ransom from the Yankees (and I mean more of a ransom than he would demand from other teams) simply because it’s within the division. I know that this gets mentioned, but I don’t feel that enough people consider that factor to be as important as (I think) it is.

    Some have already said that this trade (or non-trade) will define Ricciardi’s legacy. If that’s true, and J.P. sends Halladay here, or to Boston for that matter, the decision will stare him in the face (and ownership’s face…the face that signs his checks) over and over again for as long as he’s GM. I would think the price to trade within the division would be absolutely astronomical, and it’s the main reason I don’t even consider the Yanks a real player in this deal.

  6. gxpanos says:

    I dont want to mortgage the farm. And I hope the Phillies step up. I want him out of not only the ALE, but the AL.

  7. kevin says:

    do you guys think the package would have to be the same to get cliff lee? Would we have to part with one of hughes, joba, jesus?

    • Ed says:

      Lee is worth less than Halladay, but he’s signed for less money over the same time period, and Cleveland’s odds of competing in 2010 are much better than Toronto’s. So Cleveland is probably only moving him if they get a Halladay level package.

  8. mustang says:

    I don’t believe anything that Cashaman says especially after this winter. He swore up and down that there was no way the Yankees would sign the three top free agents what happen CC, AJ and Tex are in pinstripes.
    The price is going to come down on Doc if J.P. Ricciardi is smart and takes a look at what happen with Twins and Santana he will realize that the time to trade Doc is now to get max value.
    The difference between Santana and the Halladay situation is clear with Santana the Yankees still need more pieces to the puzzle. Halladay is the only piece they really need it clearly puts them over the top.
    They’re no guarantee in baseball, but i will take my chance with CC, AJ and Doc going to the playoffs.

    • RichYF says:

      I agree here in terms of pieces of the puzzle. Adding Santana would have given the Yanks a very solid club at the time, but he alone (based on what they’d lose) didn’t make the team the easy favorite.

      Adding Halladay to this team, even with subtracting one of Joba/Hughes, easily makes the 2009 Yankees the team to beat.

      That being said, I’ve gone back and forth on what I’d be willing to lose for Doc. If it’s 1 of Joba/Hughes/Montero I think I’m okay with it. If it’s 2 out of 3, not so much.

      I’m fine with this team the way it is, but having Doc to lead the rotation into the playoffs would certainly be nice.

  9. Lanny says:

    As much as Halladay would make this rotation top of the line it won’t happen. Cashman doesn’t make these moves. Look at his record. Just won’t happen.

    • whozat says:

      Frankly, to me, Halladay/CC/AJ doesn’t look SO much better than CC/AJ/JobaHughes that I am willing to trade Hughes and Montero to get him, and then spend Macallister on a bullpen arm to replace Hughes in the pen.

  10. Jacob says:

    I’m just so giddy right now with the way Hughes has pitched and remembering how good Joba was at this point last year that I don’t think we need to give up Montero, Ajax, Hughes/Joba, Romine or whatever it would take. Cashman has begun to build a solid farm system for the first time since I have been following them and I would like to see that continue.

    I agree w/ TSJC, let Marte be that guy or add someone like Rhodes and put Hughes back in the rotation, I’ll take my chances with a CC, AJ, Petitte, Joba, Hughes rotation.

  11. pat says:

    I’m sorta meh on the situation. I trust Cashman to not get screwed on a trade. I honestly think it could be done with one of Hughes/Joba one of Ajax/Montero and a guy like Zmac. I could probably stomach watching those guys grow up and become solid players in Toronto if we have Doc rockin out at the top of our rotation. The thing that would REALLY piss me off is if Toronto pulls a Bill Smith and trades him to the Dodgers or Sox and doesn’t get a guy like Kershaw or Lester in return. That would really grind my gears.

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

      There is no way that the Dodgers trade Kershaw, and NO WAY that the Red Sox trade Lester. Both of these guys, I’m sure, are viewed by their organizations as Roy Halladay starters, as they should be. If the Red Sox trade for Halladay, I’m sure it will involve Buchholz, Bard and some other players.

    • Mike HC says:

      i don’t think Cashman is going to trade either Joba or Hughes. I’m not saying it is a good or bad idea to hold them, but I think Cashman believes it is better to keep them. If anything, trading Hughes/Joba/AJax/Montero within the division would be a harder pill to swallow for the Yanks than for Toronto trading Halladay. Everyone knows Halladay will produce like a top pitcher, so it won’t be so devastating when he does what is expected. But those previously mentioned Yank prospects are more unknowns. If they become Cy Young/MVP candidates, it will be far more soul crushing for Yankee fans. Cashman should demand an extra price from Toronto for trading within the division.

      • If anything, trading Hughes/Joba/AJax/Montero within the division would be a harder pill to swallow for the Yanks than for Toronto trading Halladay.

        Especially since the Blue Jays would get the added benefit of not only having multiple good players to make their young team better, but would get them at a huge financial bargain enabling them to go spend more money elsewhere.

        Frankly, I think Cashman is more worried about the dangers of trading valuable and cheap prospects to a division rival than Riccardi is worried about trading the best pitcher in the game to a division rival. The chances of this deal blowing up in Cashman’s face is bigger than it was with Santana, because if the pieces you trade away pan out and become legit big leaguers, you’ve just made a chief division rival WAY stronger.

        • Mike HC says:

          Exactly. It is all about expectations. Halladay would be expected to pitch as the best pitcher in baseball. If he does that, then well, it is not devastating for Toronto because they knew he would pitch like that. For Yanks fans, trading one of our top prospects would probably mean we don’t think they will turn into the top players in the game. Thus, if they did exceed expectations, it would be a far bigger blow to Yankee fans. The Yanks or Sox should be the teams asking for more from the Jays, if any team should be asking for more.

  12. whozat says:

    Can this statement FINALLY put to rest the idiotic notion that, somehow, Santana cold have been got for Kennedy, Melky, Marquez and like…Lassiter?

    I am so tired of hearing that Cash turned down the notion of a package centered on Kennedy. That just isn’t true.

    • jsbrendog says:

      but but but……ipk/melky can get anyone can’t they?

    • Jamal G. says:

      Yeah, going off Brian Cashman’s Spring Training interview with WFAN in 2008 and articles from the 2007-2008 off-season and this article, the two packages that were legitimately on the table were: 1) Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Jeffery Marquez and a prospect or 2) Chien-Ming Wang, Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera and a “low-level” prospect.

      • Chris says:

        If Cash could have gotten Santana for Shelley Duncan, Juan Miranda, Jeff Karstens and a ball of lint, then I’m guessing he would have made the deal. It’s probably the same thing with Halladay.

    • Ed says:

      If the Twins called Cashman and asked for a package headlined by Kennedy, there would’ve been a signed trade contract coming out of their fax machine before they even finished the sentence.

  13. Chris says:

    I know a lot of people are saying the Jays should be reluctant to trade within their division, but that just doesn’t make sense to me. When the Jays make the decision to trade Halladay, they are basically giving up on 2009 and 2010 with the goal of focusing on 2011 and beyond. Trading within the division helps that goal.

    Assuming the packages are the same, the Jays would be in the same position no matter where they traded Halladay. If they traded within the AL East, then they’d be weakening the farm system of which ever team they traded with. Losing those prospects would likely weaken one team they’re competing against in 2011 and beyond – the time that the Jays want to contend.

    The desire not to trade within their division seems to be completely based on the emotional desire of not wanting to watch Halladay beat your team a few times a year for the next 2 years. That’s a stupid reason to make or not make a trade.

    • Rob H. says:

      that last paragraph basically hits the nail on the head. It’s boneheaded management to not trade a guy in your division when the absolute best package for said player comes from a team within the division. You manage your team and get the most you can. I don’t understand how someone could justify taking an inferior package just b/c the far and away best package of players was coming from an opponent within the division.

      • whozat says:

        It’s the “far and away” bit that’s the key.

        If the Yankees offer Hughes AND Joba, Romine and Jackson, while the next best offer is Drabek, another top-prospect, and two more solid prospects…the Yanks offer is far and away the best, and they get him.

        If the Yanks package is better than the Phils, but only a little…the PR hit of having Halladay thrown in your face ten times over the next year and a half sways ownership (and thus GMs)

        • Chris says:

          the PR hit of having Halladay thrown in your face ten times over the next year and a half sways ownership (and thus GMs)

          Using PR as a guide to making deals is a recipe for failure.

          • mustang says:

            Agree.

          • Whozat says:

            I agree. But gms do it.

            • Pasqua says:

              They want to keep their jobs. I understand the idea that a GM shouldn’t limit himself in terms of what teams to deal with, but with “mainstream media” the way it is, and the scrutiny placed on these moves, an in-division trade that backfires is more likely to cost you your job, whether it’s fair or not.

        • Reggie C. says:

          I highly doubt the Yanks would have to include both Hughes and JOba in the same package to exceed in quality that which Philly could put together.

          Cash would gladly see Halladay go to the NL East and become the Mets’ problem. So long as Boston doesn’t come swooping in with a Buchholz/ Bard/ Anderson offer, i think Cash will be content to sit this one out.

    • Tony says:

      I might agree if we weren’t talking about the Yankees and Red Sox. Anything Toronto takes from their systems is going to be purchased on the open market, and Halladay makes it that much harder for them to even think about making the playoffs. Let’s say Halladay goes to NY… between Tampa, Boston, and NYY, what’s the point of Toronto even fielding a team for the next 5 years?

      • Mike HC says:

        Who would have thought that Tampa would have ever been included in that sentence two years ago. You never know what is going to happen, and if Toronto manages to get a legit package of players for Halladay, they would be on their way. It does not seem like teams are willing to hand over their top two prospects/top young major leaguers, for him though. Toronto will either have to settle, or hope a team caves in. An injury to one of Boston, Yanks or Phillies top starters would help Toronto in that area.

        • Tony says:

          Who would have imagined Tampa would be good now? I dunno, anyone paying any attention to the boatload of studs they had in their system?

          • Mike HC says:

            Right. Anyone paying attention predicted Tampa would represent the AL last year in the World Series and be on par with the best teams in the AL. I must have missed all those predictions

            • Whozat says:

              Actually, all the projection systems like pecota had them contending last year.

              • RAB poster says:

                Yeah, 90 games and 3rd place (yes I know we were at 89 but we weren’t supposed to be).

                97 games and the pennant? Get back to us in three years or so.

              • Mike HC says:

                If I remember correctly, it had them being competitive, it did not predict them to be better, or even as good as the Sox or Yankees. Predicting that Tampa was going to field a competitive team is not predicting they would be legit contenders against the Yanks and Sox.

                • RAB poster says:

                  Toronto is fielding a competitive team this year. That was the type of “competitive team” they were supposed to field, not the best team in the AL.

                • Mike HC says:

                  Either way, the point is being lost here. If you can even call it a point. Tampa was the ultimate underdog franchise. So if they can compete with the Yanks and Sox, so can Toronto if they make the right moves. I would not just write them off for the next 5 years.

                • RAB poster says:

                  No, Tony’s point was that anybody who looked at Tampa’s minor league system could tell that they were going to be as good as they are now.

                • RAB poster says:

                  Which is not true.

          • RAB poster says:

            You thought Tampa would win 97 games and the pennant last season.

            Golf clap.

          • Tank Foster says:

            Tampa is over-rated. Yes, they have Longoria and some other good young position players. Last year, they had career type years out of 3 or 4 starting pitchers; they have 5 starting pitchers basically stay healthy all year. They lost Percival, but had tremendous success with bullpen arms that were largely unknown prior to that season.

            This year is more of what you would expect from them. Competitive, but not class-of-the-league. They are another version of the Twins and the A’s of a few seasons back.

            • RAB poster says:

              Actually, there was an article on RAb a few days ago that was talking about how ridiculously unlucky Tampa Bay was in the first half and how we should expect them to play much better.

              • Mike HC says:

                The article was not really saying that they were going to play better. Who knows, their luck may be even worse in the second half.

                • RAB poster says:

                  Well, of course they may still not play to their potential. But we shouldn’t expect them to stay this (relatively) bad.

            • Mike HC says:

              The Twins and A’s never reached the World Series. Did they even win one playoff series? I don’t think so. If they are another version of those teams, they are a better version.

      • Klemy says:

        My amusement?

      • Ed says:

        I can understand the fear of trading to the Red Sox. They’re a big money team without much in the way of long term commitments, and they’re capable of spending a lot more on payroll than they are now. It’s scary to improve that team.

        But trading to the Yankees or Rays could very well help Toronto. The Yankees have a lot of big money contracts, which drastically limits flexibility. Having a big money player get a serious injury could leave the team in a horrible position. Imagine trading Hughes or Joba + more for Halladay, then one of CC / AJ / Doc blows out their elbow? That cripples the team. The Rays would be betting a large portion of their payroll on one player, which could force them to trade away arbitration eligible players they otherwise would’ve kept.

        • Tony says:

          AJ blowing out his elbow would cripple the Yankees, just like how the Pavano and Wright implosions helped the Jays to their first pl… wait.

          You aren’t getting anywhere by betting that you can bankrupt the Yankees.

          • Ed says:

            You aren’t getting anywhere by betting that you can bankrupt the Yankees.

            Yes, that would be silly. It’s probably why Toronto would be demanding good players in a trade.

        • Tank Foster says:

          I’ve never been a fan of making decisions based on trying to block your rival from getting a player. You can’t pee in your own canteen…if he isn’t right for the Yankees, he isn’t right for the Yankees. If Boston wants to get him, you have to accept that. I don’t hear a unanimous voice proclaiming that Halladay guarantees an AL pennant for the Yankees, so we shouldn’t assume (and despair) that, if he did go to Boston, they would have it locked down.

      • Let’s say Halladay goes to NY… between Tampa, Boston, and NYY, what’s the point of Toronto even fielding a team for the next 5 years?

        Because if the Jays can get, say, Hughes, Montero, and McAllister for Halladay, in maybe two years they can have this team:
        C: J.P. Arenciba
        1B: Jesus Montero
        2B: Aaron Hill
        3B:
        SS:
        LF: Travis Snider
        CF: Vernon Wells
        RF: Alex Rios
        DH: Adam Lind

        SP: Phil Hughes
        SP: Ricky Romero
        SP: Brett Cecil
        SP: Rob Ray
        SP: Shaun Marcum
        SP: Dustin McGowan
        SP: Jesse Litsch
        SP: Marc Rzepczynski
        SP: Zach McAllister

        That lineup is good and deep, and they have enough dynamite young pitching depth to rival anything the rest of the AL East has, including Boston, Baltimore, and even Tampa Bay. The bullpen is still solid with League, Accardo, Camp, Downs, Frasor, etc., and by clearing Halladay’s salary obligations, along with B.J. Ryan, Scott Rolen, and Lyle Overbay, who all come off the books after 2010, they can afford to spend money in a year or so, maybe on a shiny new FA shortstop or third baseman (Jack Wilson? Jose Reyes? Brandon Inge? Chone Figgins?)

        They can compete even without Halladay. There’s talent there.

    • mustang says:

      I totally agree with Chris. I never understood why teams wouldn’t trade within the division if they are getting the best package. The O’s have lived by this stupid rule for years and look at what they have achieved.

      • The O’s have lived by this stupid rule for years and look at what they have achieved.

        What superior intradivision trades did they turn down that you’re referring to? The only Orioles trade of any note recently was the Bedard trade, and getting Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, George Sherrill, Kam Mickolio, and Tony Butler was a slam dunk of non-George-Tenet level proportions.

        Even getting Luke Scott, Troy Patton, Matt Albers, Dennis Sarfate, and Mike Costanzo for 33 year old Miguel Tejada was a solid win. I’m not sure to what you’re referring.

        • mustang says:

          The first thing that was report when Bedard was on the trading block is that Peter Angelos wouldn’t trade him in the division especially to the Yankee. It has been well documented that Peter Angelos doesn’t want to trade within the division.

          • But again, what were the Sox or Yankees going to give Angelos that was better than the haul he got from the Mariners? You implied that Baltimore is a worse team because they refused to deal their trade chips inside the AL East. I think they’ve done smashingly well even though they don’t do intradivision trades.

            • mustang says:

              “But again, what were the Sox or Yankees going to give Angelos that was better than the haul he got from the Mariners? ”

              We will never know because Angelos doesn’t trade within the division. What’s the need to handicap yourself by removing possible trade partners because there in your division?

              As you pointed out below with the Blue Jays it can actually make you a better team in the long run.

              • mustang says:

                As you pointed out above….

                • So, your argument is, the Orioles were definitely hurt by their policy of not trading intradivision–even if they weren’t actually hurt by that policy in any actual tangible evidential way–just because theoretically they could have been hurt by theoretical trades that we can only speculate about.

                  That’s weak.

                • mustang says:

                  Tommy, give me some reason why teams shouldn’t trade within their division?

                  And the FACT not theory or speculation is that O’s are subtracting 4 other farm systems that can help them rebuilt there team.

                  Wow… I can’t believe your bring up theory and speculation here of all place. If your going to do that I suggest you start writing because most of the comments here are base on either theory or speculation or both.

  14. E-ROC says:

    Relief pitcher and a replacement for Cody Ransom works for me. Halladay is luxury; not a need.

  15. Tank Foster says:

    Halladay is about as sure a thing as you can get, but it’s still a gamble any time you trade for someone. The expectations would be so high, and so immediate if you got him, it just sets everyone up for failure and disappointment. Of course, keeping young players and counting on future performance is also a gamble.

    It’s all in the details. We don’t really know what Ricciardi will ask for. Maybe he’ll end up in a pickle like the Twins apparently did with Santana, and end up having to deal him for less than he wants. Maybe the Jays have big financial worries, and will end up over a barrel and forced to deal. I don’t rule out Cashman making a move for Halladay, but it would have to be something unorthodox. He’s not going to deal 3 top prospects and Joba Chamberlain for Roy Halladay.

  16. Januz says:

    There is no way that they are trading ANY combination of Hughes, Joba & Montero for Halliday. They are starting to develop more home grown players like in the 90s, and I think that unless someone is a star (Like CC or Tex), this will be the new formula. ps: There may be another on the way: Tyler Lyons:

    “9 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 11 K (Yesterday’s numbers).

    The start brought his season line up to

    5 GS, 32.2 IP, 22 H, 6 BB, 29 K, 2.20 ERA

    Tyler told me a couple of weeks ago that he and the Yankees were fairly close in terms of the numbers discussed during negotiations, so hopefully this strong turn on the Cape helps lock something down in the near future. When I spoke to him today about the complete game he told me he had all four of his pitches working, was throwing them to both sides, keeping hitters off balance, and that he’s back to feeling like he’s got his best stuff again………..” http://www.nomaas.org
    This could potentially be a huge signing adding another lefty to the organization.

    • RAB poster says:

      “They are starting to develop more home grown players like in the 90s, and I think that unless someone is a star (Like CC or Tex), this will be the new formula.”

      Halladay IS a star.

  17. mustang says:

    Just throwing this one out there please be gentle….lol

    Joba+Pena+Romine+Robertson (OR sub Melancon if they push for more) for Halladay.

    Opinions ? too much? too little?

    • RAB poster says:

      Either Hughes or Joba.

    • Too little.

      If I’m Riccardi, it’s gotta be absolute minimum one of Joba/Hughes and one of Montero/AJax. And, if it’s AJax and not Montero, you have to take Wells.

      Riccardi doesn’t move Halladay without getting at least one elite bat and one elite pitcher.

      • Tank Foster says:

        So what happens if he asks for this but doesn’t get it? Just accepts the free agent draft picks? Probably…but what happened with Santana made me think that these teams may sometimes have serious money concerns that we don’t know about. Maybe Toronto’s owners are thinking up ways of spending the millions they’d save by trading Halladay, and would ‘encourage’ Ricciardi to get rid of him, maybe for less than market.

        • jsbrendog says:

          halladay is under contract nxt yr too for only like 16 mil

          • Tank Foster says:

            I honestly didn’t know his salary, and that’s less than I would have thought. But if you assume the deal could very well involve Wells or Rios, too, then you’re talking about a pretty hefty salary off-load for Toronto’s ownership.

      • Reggie C. says:

        Besides Seattle, no organization would cough up 1 elite bat & 1 elite arm. Throw in payroll implications for the acquiring team and heightened demands of playoff success, and the GM and coach of the acquiring team would be putting their respective heads on the chopping block if Halladay didn’t put the team over the top.

        Clearly the best fit is the Phillies as they’ve got several prospects who might be on the cusp of elite territory.

    • pat says:

      Wishful thinking, but seemingly waaaay too little. Pena is a backup SS,Romine is still only in A-ball and robertson/melancon don’t have the major league track record to be worth much in a trade. You’d have to include one of our more advanced bats like montero or ajax.

    • Oh, and Romine has virtually no value to them, because he’s J.P. Arenciba. They’re basically the same player. They need a power bat, not Romine.

      • RAB poster says:

        We don’t know that. Each team looks at prospects differently. Romine might have no value to him, or Toronto may look at him and decide he has a bigger upside. We just don’t know.

    • Mike HC says:

      That actually may be the best offer that Toronto would get, considering it would be tough for teams to give Toronto a better player than Joba and I don’t think teams are giving up their top two prospects. I suspect that Cashman would not offer that.

    • mustang says:

      Ok I included Ajax, but i want Rios ( he has 60 million still coming to him) instead of Wells.

      So
      Joba+Ajax+Pena OR Romine+ Robertson OR Melancon for Halladay and Rios ( take all of the 60)

      • Mike HC says:

        That deal is worse for Toronto than the first one in my opinion.

        • mustang says:

          Why? Toronto gets Ajax for Rios and Take off 60 million of their payroll.
          The Wells and Rios contracts are killing that team.

          • Mike HC says:

            Rios is probably better than AJax will ever be.

            • Tank Foster says:

              Gosh I hope not. Everyone today seems so confident in predicting ballplayers’ careers, who am I to argue, but I’ll go on a limb and say I think he has a very good shot at being a better player than Alex Rios.

              • wilcymoore says:

                Compare their minor league stats – the major league outfielder who Austin Jackson best projects to is Grady Sizemore. I don’t know whether that should make us feel good or bad.

            • mustang says:

              If that’s true then why are people making such a big deal about Ajax.
              Rios is good, but most people don’t think he worth is current contract.

              • Because Rios isn’t making the league minimum.

                If Rios had signed a 7yr/49M extension, he wouldn’t be on the trade block, because he’s a decent player. It’s the fact that he signed a 7/69M deal that makes him less desirable.

                AJax is a valuable commodity because he figures to give you probably 70% of Alex Rios’s total offensive/defensive production at 2% of his price.

        • Agreed.

          Alex Rios has a 113 OPS+ over the past three and a half years and is owed:
          10:$9.7M, 11:$12M, 12:$12M, 13:$12.5M, 14:$12.5M

          Vernon Wells has a 107 OPS+ over the past three and a half years and is owed:
          10:$12.5M, 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M

          Rios’s contract is bad, but not horrible. Wells’s contract is the one that’s crippling. Rios is younger, a better hitter, and a better defender. Taking on Rios’s contract isn’t going to decrease your prospect cost, because he still has some value. The only way you lower your prospect cost is to take on Wells.

  18. mike in sf says:

    Very pointed, purposeful remarks by Cashmoney.

    I don’t think he’s posturing for this trade. Rather, I feel he’s dispelling the notion that the Yanks farm is subpar- pointing out the positive contributions of trade pieces from the past.

  19. Little Bill says:

    I’ve been saying all along that there’s no need to deplete the minor league prospects. Cashman is exactly right. Joba, Hughes, and Montero are all untouchables. No trade for Halladay will occur, thank God.

  20. Kenneth says:

    Cashman using Melky as an example of why they shouldn’t have got Santana is ridiculous.

    The Hughes thing is fine.

    Where’s his defense of Wang, Kennedy and Melky? That trade should have been made. And who’s saying this team couldn’t have got both CC and Johan?

  21. Evan says:

    Trade Wang, he is a liability to the club. They should get Snell and put him in the starting rotation. Halliday should stay with the Blue Jays.

  22. whitesox6 says:

    I think the Yanks should get Halliday and the Jays should get Melky, even though he is the walk-off king.

  23. Mike C says:

    All I know is someone tell Boston to get their arm off my side of the chair….First place has a roomate…:)

  24. yankees says:

    will be in 1st by ourself.

  25. [...] they have to necessarily make a move this week? According to Brian Cashman, there will be increased activity after July 31 this year because many teams will not be willing to put in waiver claims. For the uninitiated, after July 31 [...]

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