Sep
21

Passport helps Chapman speedily gain residency

By

When Orlando Hernandez defected from Cuba in 1997, he did not have a passport. Neither did his half-brother Livan two years earlier, nor did Jose Conteras in 2002. It took time for their agents to set everything up, and each debuted about a year after defecting. In the case of Aroldis Chapman, the left-handed flamethrower who defected earlier this season, it won’t be as tough. He already had a passport, and has established residency in Andorra, a small country in Europe. It should be a painless path to free agency from here, and his agents say that could be even before the playoffs. The Yanks will certainly be in on the 21-year-old, but at what cost? There’s a thin free agency pitching pool this year, and a young pitcher with Chapman’s stuff could get a behemoth deal.

Categories : Asides

163 Comments»

  1. (pushes big stack of chips to the center of table)

    • jsbrendog says:

      you really think he is that good?

      • mustang says:

        I heard some really good things about the kid and a lefty that can throw in the upper 90′s they can’t pass that up.
        For the most part Cuban pitchers have lived up to the

      • Makavelli says:

        We thought Contreras was great too…

        • mustang says:

          He wasn’t that bad in Chicago some guys just can’t pitch in NY

        • leokitty says:

          Do you have to be a downer on everything? Chapman is a totally different situation from Contreras, first off he is much much younger. Second off, they have stuff like pitch f/x data on him instead of just things people have heard or allegedly seen.

          The great majority of pitching prospects bust, that doesn’t mean you don’t use your resources to go after the best.

          • Makavelli says:

            Where were these tools when we went after Igawa?

            And no, I’m not negative. I brought up one actual concern that people shot down that was negative…and people went crazy…

            I’m just not that sold on these guys anymore. We don’t have that great of a record when signing them.

            • I brought up one actual concern that people shot down that was negative…and people went crazy…

              People don’t go crazy because you bring up one actual concern that is negative. People go crazy because you bring that one actual concern up thousands of times a month, most of them off-topic.

              We’ve been over this before, dude. You have admitted that you do this and said that you were going to stop.

              • Makavelli says:

                I honestly didn’t feel this was off topic…especially when you compare it to the barrage of very off topic comments that others make, yourself included.

                But I’m guessing there are specific rules for each individual person on this site perhaps…

                • You know what, Axl? There are definitely different rules for different posters.

                  If you come on here and constantly harp on the same thing over and over again, you’re going to annoy us. If you make every thread somehow about you, you’re going to annoy us. When you annoy us, we’re going to be quicker in pointing out your offenses.

                  If you show perspective and interact with other commenters in a sane manner, we’re more apt to let things slip. Makes sense, right? There are plenty of people who have voiced concern, but who do not annoy us. Bob Stone is the epitome of that. If Bob goes somewhat off-topic, we’re not going to care enough, so long as the off-topic-ness comes tangentially in the thread.

                  That’s the difference.

                • But I’m guessing there are specific rules for each individual person on this site perhaps…

                  No, there’s just an informal demerit system.

                  The more you fuck up, the shorter your leash gets.

                • Makavelli says:

                  Joe,

                  I don’t see where my concerns didn’t come tangentially into the conversation? I brought up the fact that the return of David Robertson is great, but makes what is already formidable a little better. While if our rotation isn’t there…the bullpen doesn’t matter.

                  Then everybody starts foaming at the mouth, joining together to shut me up for whatever reason.

                  It’s not THAT off topic…I understand your affection for TSJC and all…but I don’t see how all of this hooplah is necessary over something just because it’s not agreed with?

                • Because you’ve burned up most of your goodwill. That’s why.

                  Start realizing why you burned it up and stop repeating those actions, and people will cut you slack.

                • Makavelli says:

                  Because you’ve burned up most of your goodwill. That’s why.

                  Start realizing why you burned it up and stop repeating those actions, and people will cut you slack.

                  But most of my “goodwill” was apparently burned due to similar concerns and/or posts. They’re NEVER ridiculous or not accurate…they are basically, perhaps, TOO accurate and scary for anybody to talk about on this style board. Anything other than blue skies and rainbows are not allowed.

                  The problem is, you take realistic concerns as if they are a personal antagonization. When, at the end of the day, it’s only a legitimate concern.

                  Nobody on here talks about legitimate concerns…so when they do arise…people take them personally and try to smother them out like a fire.

                  Perhaps if you looked at legitimate concerns a different way…these long drawn out arguments would be a lot shorter both in length…and instances.

                • Why is it that every time I address you, you fail to acknowledge the biggest point?

                  You do this in every thread. Stop. You made your concern, now talk about something else. It is annoying to see the same “holy shit the Yanks are gonna tank it” in every fucking thread. This is why we want to keep threads on topic.

                • “They’re NEVER ridiculous or not accurate…they are basically, perhaps, TOO accurate and scary for anybody to talk about on this style board.”

                  Also this. Your ego knows no bounds.

                • Makavelli says:

                  Agreed. But negativity breeds more response than positive feedback. People in here fail to realize that. Figuratively yelling and screaming at somebody doesn’t get nearly as much accomplished as saying “I don’t agree with what you’re saying and I would wish that you would stop talking about it due to this.”

                  But by the way, this is what I mean. I never said “the Yankees are going to tank it.” And if I remember correctly, I got in big trouble for putting words that others didn’t say in their mouths. I brought up a concern. That’s all. I never said we WERE going to lose and all hell was going to break lose. But whatever. It’s over.

                • Makavelli says:

                  Joseph Pawlikowski says:

                  September 21st, 2009 at 1:27 pm

                  “They’re NEVER ridiculous or not accurate…they are basically, perhaps, TOO accurate and scary for anybody to talk about on this style board.”

                  Also this. Your ego knows no bounds.

                  tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside says:

                  September 21st, 2009 at 1:28 pm

                  OAKTAG

                  Is the handicap match over yet? Can we save the high fiving and patts on the rear for another time now?

                • The fact that you’ve had to have like…ten discussions with multiple people (mostly TSJC and THCM) and staff multiple times should show you that something in your commenting/writing/rhetorical style is most likely wrong. Seriously, how many times have people talked to about the way you go about things on this site? Is it a) really worth it to keep coming if you keep getting shit? or b) really that hard to change up how you post?

                • Figuratively yelling and screaming at somebody doesn’t get nearly as much accomplished as saying “I don’t agree with what you’re saying and I would wish that you would stop talking about it due to this.”

                  We did that with you. Months ago. You realized you were wrong and would stop. You didn’t.

                  We’re tired.

            • Accent Shallow says:

              Pitch F/X is in US parks only, and we have data on Chapman from the 2009 WBC. We don’t have data on (pre-majors) Igawa for obvious reasons.

              Additionally, I believe the Yankees will use the opinions of non-Pagliarulo scouts, so there’s that.

              Finally, just because of a bad experience with Irabu and Igawa, doesn’t mean all Japanese pitchers aren’t worth it.

            • Omar says:

              I hated Kei Igawa when was still in J-ball.

        • kimonizer says:

          wow you really do live on negative ninny island don’t ya

          • Makavelli says:

            lol I don’t try to be. But it doesn’t help when people are jumping all over you saying you’re crazy about actual concerns with the current performance overall.

            But other than that…I also like to see major league performance before committing from now on. It’s the best way to get the best look.

            • I also like to see major league performance before committing from now on.

              So basically, the Yankees should just give up on draft picks, international free agents and the Minor Leagues in general. Got it.

            • “But other than that…I also like to see major league performance before committing from now on. It’s the best way to get the best look.”

              But, he’s an amateur. Surely you’re not saying you wouldn’t give money to an amateur because he hasn’t yet proven his worth in the majors.

        • Free Mike Vick says:

          jose contreras said he was 31 when he came over….Chapman is 21 years old! HUGE difference

          ps…i still don’t know Contreras really age…for god sakes he looks like he is on death’s doorstep as we speak.

    • leokitty says:

      Hopefully with another big stack ready to go…

  2. Dela G says:

    Let’s hope its not igawan

  3. I wonder if this, too, will end up with Theo throwing a chair. We can only hope it does.

  4. Accent Shallow says:

    Ok, let’s see. A 21 year old LHP who throws 102? Applying the Cuban adjustment:

    So he throws 82, is 29, and doesn’t have a left arm. Still interested.

  5. Chew on this: The 2009 struggles of Brackman and Betances, along with the more prominent struggles of Joba Chamberlain, probably make it more likely that we go in hard for Chapman. So when they bounce back (in Brack and Dellin’s case) or continue their normal development arc (in Joba’s case), we’ll have extra elite prospects. Sometimes, players performing poorly at the right moment pays long-term dividends.

    Kinda like the Spurs losing David Robertson to injury so they could draft Tim Duncan.

    BOOOOM, THAT JUST HAPPENED. IS YOUR MIND BLOWN?

  6. alex gonzalez says:

    give him whatever he wants. there is a story of how the red sox went after contreras and the yankes swooped in. i want to give him so much money he cant refuse. this kid is probably older than he is and more matured in his development. i want him very badly.

  7. Randy A. says:

    I really hope they make a push for him. I think everybody knows that he will need some time in the minors, but the upside of a high 90′s fastball and being only 21 years old (allegedly) make this a volatile but smart investment. I know Brackman had an off year, but he showed some good signs towards the end (SSS). If the Yankees have Chapman and Brackman in their farm system, the immediate future looks good and the slightly more distant future looks better.

  8. Attn: Mike:

    If the Yankees do sign Chapman, where does he land in terms of the team’s pitching prospects?

  9. mustang says:

    21 ( or so), Lefty, throws in the 100, and all he will cost is money.

    What number is going to where is pinstripes?

    Serious if they can throw away 46 million on a 5th starter that turn out to be a AAA pitcher they can give this kid 32 million.

  10. Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

    I think a major reason the Yanks didn’t go nuts at the deadline was to save cash to sign this kid.

  11. JohnnyC says:

    Just as long as we don’t consult Mike Pagliarulo.

  12. mustang says:

    ESPN had a good story on the kid I think last month.

  13. Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

    I heard that the Soc were going to go hard after Felix in the offseason.

    Question: Prospects + cash for Felix, or cash only for Chapman (I’m assuming that because of the cost they could only take one of the two and not both)?

    • The prospects would be HUGE.

      Cash only for Chapman, please.

      • Omar says:

        Well this is a pretty stupid opinion to have. Felix Hernandez is one of the five best pitchers in all of baseball, he has some of the best stuff in the game right now, he’s proven himself against major league hitting and he’s still only 23. Alrodis Chapman while I would love, is still a fairly high risk option. Fortunately it’s not an either or option, and the Yankees can go out and get both. Chapman likely won’t live up to the hype, but people rarely do, but Pettitte’s going to retire soon, and having Chapman as a back up option would be amazing.

        • Zack says:

          Felix would cost Joba, Hughes, Montero, Jackson, and then probably 3 more prospects (not Duncan, Cervelli, Pena, etc.).

          • Omar says:

            Roy Halladay couldn’t net the Jays a package half that good. I’d be fine with Montero, Chamberlain, Jackson, Romine, McAllister, and someone like Arodys. I can’t see another team putting together a package that would be on the same level as Hughes, Montero, Chamberlain, Jackson, with three other good prospects, so there is no need to offer a package that good if no other team is going to come close. The Red Sox could come close if they offered Buchholz, Anderson, Reddick, Kelly, and some other guys, but even then…that’s still a ways off. They aren’t dealing Jon Lester, so I doubt they’d top it…but still there aren’t many teams that would come close. Maybe the Dodgers, but there’s no reason for them to put together a package that the Ms would accept. Miguel Cabrera didn’t even net that good of a package (at the time).

        • Why is that a stupid opinion? Felix will cost a boatload of prospects. The Sox offered any FIVE of “Daniel Bard, Clay Buchholz, Justin Masterson, Nick Hagadone, Michael Bowden and Felix Doubront, shortstop Yamaico Navarro and outfielder Josh Reddick.”

          http://www.projo.com/redsox/co.....83cfb.html

          That’s a bit much. Yes, it’s for one of the best pitchers in baseball, but then you’ve completely depleted the farm.

    • Tom Zig says:

      To trade for Felix, Boston would literally have to sign over the rights of their AAA and AA clubs and then throw in Kelly for good measure.

  14. Bob Stone says:

    The Yankees have to go “all-in” on Chapman. And that is cearly consistent with Cashman’s strategy the last three years. Why give up the farm to get a top MLB pitcher via trade when all it takes is cash to get an IFA? The Yankees have a much larger cache of money than they do high quality farm hands. And the cash is much more easily replenishable than good prospects.

  15. bonestock94 says:

    Screw it, it’s not my money. I want Chapman. That way we don’t have all our chips in the collective Chamberlain, Hughes, Wang, Kennedy basket.

  16. Count Zero says:

    FWIW, I will say that some of the core posters here should consider toning down the sarcasm and derisive laughter.

    As many of you older folks know, I have been here since early on, and I still enjoy reading multiple times per day. But I rarely bother to comment anymore. Honestly, it’s gotten so I bail on the comments before I even get in, because whenever I get into them, it’s likely I will have to wade through 25+ instances of insults, inside jokes at others’ expense and generally supercilious remarks.

    While I realize the frustration with some of the more inane things posted here, the reality is that all this rhetoric around calling them out only makes things worse. If you want to calmly explain the fallacy in someone’s post, great. If you question the basis on which they arrived at what seems a faulty conclusion, that’s great too. But if all you’re going to do is make a sarcastic remark, think about if it’s really worth it. Does it add anything to the quality of content? Or are you just trying to demonstrate mental superiority to everyone else?

    It’s getting so it’s almost as hard to find a meaningful comment here as it is to find one at LoHud.

    Just one man’s opinion — you are now free to move about the cabin with flamethrowers.

  17. Drew says:

    1. Sign Chapman.

    2. Get him to convince Gouriell to defect.

    3. Sign Gouriell.

    4. Ticker-tape, bitches.

    • Now that he’s retired from the day-to-day operating of the team and he’s got more time on his hands, maybe we can convince the president to name Big George as the Special Diplomatic Envoy to Cuba.

      • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals says:

        forget that. there’s an easier way:

        ross perot.

        ross perot has LOTS of military/exmilitary/paramilitary friends. oh, and )#($* LOADS of money.

        $$$$$ + paramilitary strength and training + home addresses = LOTS of new ‘defectors’ from Cuba’s national team

        its so easy a caveman could do it.

  18. Mike Pop says:

    5. Give Melky an extension

  19. thurdonpaul says:

    i enjoy this site, i dont comment often, but yeah the bickering and inside jokes that put people down do detract from it

    • Mike Pop says:

      I’m a regular, but I get joked at constantly. Sure, my self esteem goes down and I turn emo from time to time, but RAB is that good man. It’s that good.

    • mustang says:

      Agree. But there is also a culture (sometimes bad and sometimes good) here and if anyone disagree with it be prepared to do a lot of writing.
      I think the overall value of the site overrides the stupid stuff and to be honest why take things so damn seriously the whole object of baseball is to entertain.

  20. Mike Pop says:

    Get this guy signed. He’s that bonafide ace type guy the Yankees could use in their system.

    That is all.

  21. Frigidevil says:

    There’s only two guys that I wouldn’t mind the Yankees throwing tons of money at, and this guy’s one of them. Maybe he doesn’t work out, who cares? It’s not like the team’s short on good pitching. I just don’t want to see him go to the sox and kill us in a few weeks.

    Oh and the other guy’s Yu Darvish, that guy’s nuts.

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