Passport helps Chapman speedily gain residency
ByWhen Orlando Hernandez defected from Cuba in 1997, he did not have a passport. Neither did his half-brother Livan two years earlier, nor did Jose Conteras in 2002. It took time for their agents to set everything up, and each debuted about a year after defecting. In the case of Aroldis Chapman, the left-handed flamethrower who defected earlier this season, it won’t be as tough. He already had a passport, and has established residency in Andorra, a small country in Europe. It should be a painless path to free agency from here, and his agents say that could be even before the playoffs. The Yanks will certainly be in on the 21-year-old, but at what cost? There’s a thin free agency pitching pool this year, and a young pitcher with Chapman’s stuff could get a behemoth deal.



(pushes big stack of chips to the center of table)
you really think he is that good?
I really think we have balls that big.
you: i’d go all in to sign him
me: you think he is worth it?
you: we have large man parts.
ok, so then you think he is that good?
I think he’s got enough upside that we should be buying in on him. This is a moot question, though, it’s like saying “Did you think Andrew Brackman was that good in 2007 to justify giving him an ML deal and a 40-man spot?”
It’s not about whether or not he’s that good, it’s about how much potential he has and how much financial muscle we have to afford buying guys on spec.
exactly
I heard some really good things about the kid and a lefty that can throw in the upper 90′s they can’t pass that up.
For the most part Cuban pitchers have lived up to the
hype
We thought Contreras was great too…
He wasn’t that bad in Chicago some guys just can’t pitch in NY
some guys just can’t pitch in NY
Agreed.
Do you have to be a downer on everything? Chapman is a totally different situation from Contreras, first off he is much much younger. Second off, they have stuff like pitch f/x data on him instead of just things people have heard or allegedly seen.
The great majority of pitching prospects bust, that doesn’t mean you don’t use your resources to go after the best.
Where were these tools when we went after Igawa?
And no, I’m not negative. I brought up one actual concern that people shot down that was negative…and people went crazy…
I’m just not that sold on these guys anymore. We don’t have that great of a record when signing them.
I brought up one actual concern that people shot down that was negative…and people went crazy…
People don’t go crazy because you bring up one actual concern that is negative. People go crazy because you bring that one actual concern up thousands of times a month, most of them off-topic.
We’ve been over this before, dude. You have admitted that you do this and said that you were going to stop.
I honestly didn’t feel this was off topic…especially when you compare it to the barrage of very off topic comments that others make, yourself included.
But I’m guessing there are specific rules for each individual person on this site perhaps…
You know what, Axl? There are definitely different rules for different posters.
If you come on here and constantly harp on the same thing over and over again, you’re going to annoy us. If you make every thread somehow about you, you’re going to annoy us. When you annoy us, we’re going to be quicker in pointing out your offenses.
If you show perspective and interact with other commenters in a sane manner, we’re more apt to let things slip. Makes sense, right? There are plenty of people who have voiced concern, but who do not annoy us. Bob Stone is the epitome of that. If Bob goes somewhat off-topic, we’re not going to care enough, so long as the off-topic-ness comes tangentially in the thread.
That’s the difference.
But I’m guessing there are specific rules for each individual person on this site perhaps…
No, there’s just an informal demerit system.
The more you fuck up, the shorter your leash gets.
Joe,
I don’t see where my concerns didn’t come tangentially into the conversation? I brought up the fact that the return of David Robertson is great, but makes what is already formidable a little better. While if our rotation isn’t there…the bullpen doesn’t matter.
Then everybody starts foaming at the mouth, joining together to shut me up for whatever reason.
It’s not THAT off topic…I understand your affection for TSJC and all…but I don’t see how all of this hooplah is necessary over something just because it’s not agreed with?
Because you’ve burned up most of your goodwill. That’s why.
Start realizing why you burned it up and stop repeating those actions, and people will cut you slack.
Because you’ve burned up most of your goodwill. That’s why.
Start realizing why you burned it up and stop repeating those actions, and people will cut you slack.
But most of my “goodwill” was apparently burned due to similar concerns and/or posts. They’re NEVER ridiculous or not accurate…they are basically, perhaps, TOO accurate and scary for anybody to talk about on this style board. Anything other than blue skies and rainbows are not allowed.
The problem is, you take realistic concerns as if they are a personal antagonization. When, at the end of the day, it’s only a legitimate concern.
Nobody on here talks about legitimate concerns…so when they do arise…people take them personally and try to smother them out like a fire.
Perhaps if you looked at legitimate concerns a different way…these long drawn out arguments would be a lot shorter both in length…and instances.
Why is it that every time I address you, you fail to acknowledge the biggest point?
You do this in every thread. Stop. You made your concern, now talk about something else. It is annoying to see the same “holy shit the Yanks are gonna tank it” in every fucking thread. This is why we want to keep threads on topic.
“They’re NEVER ridiculous or not accurate…they are basically, perhaps, TOO accurate and scary for anybody to talk about on this style board.”
Also this. Your ego knows no bounds.
OAKTAG
Agreed. But negativity breeds more response than positive feedback. People in here fail to realize that. Figuratively yelling and screaming at somebody doesn’t get nearly as much accomplished as saying “I don’t agree with what you’re saying and I would wish that you would stop talking about it due to this.”
But by the way, this is what I mean. I never said “the Yankees are going to tank it.” And if I remember correctly, I got in big trouble for putting words that others didn’t say in their mouths. I brought up a concern. That’s all. I never said we WERE going to lose and all hell was going to break lose. But whatever. It’s over.
Joseph Pawlikowski says:
September 21st, 2009 at 1:27 pm
“They’re NEVER ridiculous or not accurate…they are basically, perhaps, TOO accurate and scary for anybody to talk about on this style board.”
Also this. Your ego knows no bounds.
tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside says:
September 21st, 2009 at 1:28 pm
OAKTAG
Is the handicap match over yet? Can we save the high fiving and patts on the rear for another time now?
The fact that you’ve had to have like…ten discussions with multiple people (mostly TSJC and THCM) and staff multiple times should show you that something in your commenting/writing/rhetorical style is most likely wrong. Seriously, how many times have people talked to about the way you go about things on this site? Is it a) really worth it to keep coming if you keep getting shit? or b) really that hard to change up how you post?
Figuratively yelling and screaming at somebody doesn’t get nearly as much accomplished as saying “I don’t agree with what you’re saying and I would wish that you would stop talking about it due to this.”
We did that with you. Months ago. You realized you were wrong and would stop. You didn’t.
We’re tired.
Pitch F/X is in US parks only, and we have data on Chapman from the 2009 WBC. We don’t have data on (pre-majors) Igawa for obvious reasons.
Additionally, I believe the Yankees will use the opinions of non-Pagliarulo scouts, so there’s that.
Finally, just because of a bad experience with Irabu and Igawa, doesn’t mean all Japanese pitchers aren’t worth it.
I hated Kei Igawa when was still in J-ball.
wow you really do live on negative ninny island don’t ya
You are depressing.
lol I don’t try to be. But it doesn’t help when people are jumping all over you saying you’re crazy about actual concerns with the current performance overall.
But other than that…I also like to see major league performance before committing from now on. It’s the best way to get the best look.
I also like to see major league performance before committing from now on.
So basically, the Yankees should just give up on draft picks, international free agents and the Minor Leagues in general. Got it.
We’re not paying $50+ million dollars in some instances to sit down and have a conversation with draft picks…
“But other than that…I also like to see major league performance before committing from now on. It’s the best way to get the best look.”
But, he’s an amateur. Surely you’re not saying you wouldn’t give money to an amateur because he hasn’t yet proven his worth in the majors.
jose contreras said he was 31 when he came over….Chapman is 21 years old! HUGE difference
ps…i still don’t know Contreras really age…for god sakes he looks like he is on death’s doorstep as we speak.
real*
Hopefully with another big stack ready to go…
What do you think we built this stadium for?
I’m very aroused…
Lots of money plus Mariano Rivera will hug you when things don’t go so well. Can’t possibly turn that down, right?
Let’s hope its not igawan
I wonder if this, too, will end up with Theo throwing a chair. We can only hope it does.
LMAO
are you referencing contreras?
I don’t think Theo was there for Contreras…
http://www.digamma.net/btfwiki/Throws_chair
throws chair (thrOs chA-yur), v. (fr. Moneyball ) 1. an act expressing extreme frustration, esp. having to do with failure in any aspect of baseball, including front office errors: Theo Epstein, brilliant young GM of the Red Sox, was reported to have thrown a chair across his hotel room upon learning the Yankees had signed Jose Contreras. (apocryphal) 2. (on Primer) a figurative expression used to express disgust when a sabermetrically favored team’s shit don’t work.
ietcvm
Hmm I guess he was there for about a month only though. Theo signed with the Sox on November 25, 2002…and Contreras signed a deal with the Yankees on December 26, 2002.
Ok, let’s see. A 21 year old LHP who throws 102? Applying the Cuban adjustment:
So he throws 82, is 29, and doesn’t have a left arm. Still interested.
hahahaha IETC
Chew on this: The 2009 struggles of Brackman and Betances, along with the more prominent struggles of Joba Chamberlain, probably make it more likely that we go in hard for Chapman. So when they bounce back (in Brack and Dellin’s case) or continue their normal development arc (in Joba’s case), we’ll have extra elite prospects. Sometimes, players performing poorly at the right moment pays long-term dividends.
Kinda like the Spurs losing David Robertson to injury so they could draft Tim Duncan.
BOOOOM, THAT JUST HAPPENED. IS YOUR MIND BLOWN?
I didn’t know David Robertson was a 7-foot tall 40-year old black man. My TV must be screwed up.
IETC.
david robinson?
Whoops. Got Yankee on the brain. My bad.
(However, it would be nice to bring the Admiral out of retirement for our 3-on-3 half-court basketball team…)
Kinda like the Spurs losing David Robertson to injury so they could draft Tim Duncan.
I don’t see why they needed him to get injured, playing a 5’11″ white guy at C seems like a recipe for disaster.
All kidding aside, I’m not sure how the lack of progress by everyone else affects their attitude towards Champman; he’s clearly an elite talent, and they should be interested in him even if Joba was pitching at his 2008 level.
/second paragraph is pretty self-evident, but I had to throw something in there to justify the joke
give him whatever he wants. there is a story of how the red sox went after contreras and the yankes swooped in. i want to give him so much money he cant refuse. this kid is probably older than he is and more matured in his development. i want him very badly.
i totally agree
You think Aroldis Chapman is “older and more matured in his development” than Jose Contreras?
Every time you say something, I always think “Man, you can’t get any dumber than this.” And you always prove me wrong. I’m going to stop doubting you. You’re the man.
/backhanded compliment’d
no i wasnt saying he is older and more matured in development than contreras. i was saying he is more matured than his supposed age indicates. the only reason i mentioned contreras because i remembered the story of how the red sox were confident they were going to get him and the yankees went to the hotel he was at and offered him a boat load that he couldnt turn down.
The only good part of that story was the Red Sox reaction…but he really didn’t turn out to much after that…
the only reason i mentioned contreras because i remembered the story of how the red sox were confident they were going to get him and the yankees went to the hotel he was at and offered him a boat load that he couldnt turn down.
hmmm..i feel like this has happened mroe than once…wait…i can’t put my finger on it though…….somewhat recently…..oh well
Theo: WHERE THE FUCK ARE ALL THE CHAIRS??!!
IETC
but his record is only 24-21, still want him?
he tied for 4th in wins last season. also he is in a different country so you can’t compare it as much. this kid is going to be somebody in the major leagues.
only 4th? what a scrub
Yeah, why are we screwing around trying to sign some 21 year old tall lefty with dynamite stuff if he only was 4th in the league in wins? Lets go sign that guy who was first in the league. I’m sure he’s way better, look at all those extra wins?
Then again, this is a different country. No way to compare it.
Different era. HIS season ended, like, a month ago. Can’t compare.
Yuniesky Maya-28 years old
13-4, 2.22 era, 146 IP, 119K, 113H, 7CG, 90 mph FB
get him cash
Win is the universal stat, used in all countries, it tells the whole story about a pitcher
AG decision tree for evaluating whether or not a pitcher is good:
1.) Is the pitcher pitching in this era or in a different era?
2.) Is the pitcher pitching in this country, or a different country?
3.) Did the pitcher win?
4.) Does the pitcher exhibit excellent teammate rallying ability?
5.) Is the pitcher Scott Feldman?
6.) Is the pitcher a member of the 2002 San Francisco Giants?
7.) Does the pitcher like Scarface better than The Godfather?
8.) Would the pitcher be liked by stathead nerds who don’t watch the game?
All 8 questions must be answered before evaluation of the pitcher’s “goodness” can be determined.
Booooo, Scarface over Godfather every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Ouch, comment fail.
Godfather over Scarface any day of the week
Damn, I left out:
9.) Would declaring the pitcher to be “good” be an arbitrary action?
Doesn’t that mean there’s 3 other guys we should be trying to get before him?
I really hope they make a push for him. I think everybody knows that he will need some time in the minors, but the upside of a high 90′s fastball and being only 21 years old (allegedly) make this a volatile but smart investment. I know Brackman had an off year, but he showed some good signs towards the end (SSS). If the Yankees have Chapman and Brackman in their farm system, the immediate future looks good and the slightly more distant future looks better.
Don’t forget C) Tall and D) Lefty and E) dynamite secondary stuff.
Attn: Mike:
If the Yankees do sign Chapman, where does he land in terms of the team’s pitching prospects?
brackman
(gap the size of grand canyon)
chapman
(gap the size of the grand canyon)
everyone else
Wrong as usual.
I’m curious as to whether or not his upside puts him above, say, Z-Mac, who’s a little more polished but doesn’t have the same upside.
Probably depends on what type of ranker you are. Are you upside-centric, or probability/closeness to the majors-centric?
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-539688
i was joking.
Your jokes are less funny than your serious comments.
I’d say Z-Mac’s polish keeps him ahead of Chapman. But that’s it. If Chapman ever gets on a roll, we could be looking at a Ryan Bradley/Joba Chamberlain-like rise to the bigs.
I thought Chapman had tremendous, incredible upside. Like HOF level upside. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s what I heard.
Dare I say… Ridiculous Upside?
http://media.photobucket.com/i.....OnWood.png
Any time you are a lefty throwing in the high 90s and can hit 100 with actual evidence beyond a scout saying so, you have ridiculous upside.
His secondary stuff isn’t quite there yet, but contrary to what some people on the internet think young pitchers aren’t necessarily finished products…
He’d land right behind Montero in the teams’ overall prospect rankings.
21 ( or so), Lefty, throws in the 100, and all he will cost is money.
What number is going to where is pinstripes?
Serious if they can throw away 46 million on a 5th starter that turn out to be a AAA pitcher they can give this kid 32 million.
The real question is if he’s worth a 40 man spot or not. You know someone will offer him a Major League deal.
I will DFA Sergio Mitre right in the middle of the ALDS, even if he’s on the ALDS roster, if that’s what it takes to clear a roster spot to sign Aroldis Chapman.
Sincerely,
Brian Cashman
i will cosign with that idea.
No you would rather DFA A-rod
too much money to do that. if we are paying him he mind as well play.
he does more harm than good. atleast the team LIKES Cody Ransom
Fun fact: Cody Ransom was on the 2002 Giants
Yup. He mind as well.
(That’s the second time you’ve said that.)
truly mind-bottling.
That’s a legitimate concern because some reports have him a year or two away from the majors due to inconsistent secondary pitches. But, then again, if we can afford to have Brackman on the 40 man…
Good question, but I thinking the answer is yes.
Its real hard to pass on a young lefty that throws 100 and most scout say that he is the real deal.
I think a major reason the Yanks didn’t go nuts at the deadline was to save cash to sign this kid.
Just as long as we don’t consult Mike Pagliarulo.
ESPN had a good story on the kid I think last month.
That’s just lazy, Mustang.
COME ON, WITH THE LINKAGE!
google.com
givoogle.com
Same as google, but every time you use it you donate to charity.
Spread the word (I know I used google earlier but that was a dumb mistake).
That’s pretty awesome.
http://www.givoogle.com
He brought it up. He should have gone the extra mile and googled the link to it.
Don’t go all Robinson Cano on us, Mustang.
Yes sir
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4302422
That’s better, you lazy bastard.
Off topic tommy
Just got back from Seattle here is my check list:
1-Got Joe Girardi to autograph my ticket for my kid. ( Want to leave JFK fast make sure the Yankees manger is on the plane.)
2- Saw the only win of the series. ( Safaco is very nice).
3- Took a picture with Mariners Moose. ( We were on the same elevator.)
LMAO
Sweet.
Here’s an ESPN link on Chapman:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4390829
and an update ESPN link:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4491904
I heard that the Soc were going to go hard after Felix in the offseason.
Question: Prospects + cash for Felix, or cash only for Chapman (I’m assuming that because of the cost they could only take one of the two and not both)?
The prospects would be HUGE.
Cash only for Chapman, please.
Well this is a pretty stupid opinion to have. Felix Hernandez is one of the five best pitchers in all of baseball, he has some of the best stuff in the game right now, he’s proven himself against major league hitting and he’s still only 23. Alrodis Chapman while I would love, is still a fairly high risk option. Fortunately it’s not an either or option, and the Yankees can go out and get both. Chapman likely won’t live up to the hype, but people rarely do, but Pettitte’s going to retire soon, and having Chapman as a back up option would be amazing.
Felix would cost Joba, Hughes, Montero, Jackson, and then probably 3 more prospects (not Duncan, Cervelli, Pena, etc.).
Roy Halladay couldn’t net the Jays a package half that good. I’d be fine with Montero, Chamberlain, Jackson, Romine, McAllister, and someone like Arodys. I can’t see another team putting together a package that would be on the same level as Hughes, Montero, Chamberlain, Jackson, with three other good prospects, so there is no need to offer a package that good if no other team is going to come close. The Red Sox could come close if they offered Buchholz, Anderson, Reddick, Kelly, and some other guys, but even then…that’s still a ways off. They aren’t dealing Jon Lester, so I doubt they’d top it…but still there aren’t many teams that would come close. Maybe the Dodgers, but there’s no reason for them to put together a package that the Ms would accept. Miguel Cabrera didn’t even net that good of a package (at the time).
Doc is 32, Felix is 23
You’re joking, right? I’m not including Jesus Montero in any package for anybody, and particularly if that anybody is a pitcher.
Why is that a stupid opinion? Felix will cost a boatload of prospects. The Sox offered any FIVE of “Daniel Bard, Clay Buchholz, Justin Masterson, Nick Hagadone, Michael Bowden and Felix Doubront, shortstop Yamaico Navarro and outfielder Josh Reddick.”
http://www.projo.com/redsox/co.....83cfb.html
That’s a bit much. Yes, it’s for one of the best pitchers in baseball, but then you’ve completely depleted the farm.
Because imported pitchers have rarely lived up to the hype, and while the situations surrounding Chapman are different…he’s still not likely to achieve a level of success in the major leagues anywhere close to the level that Felix Hernandez has. Great, the Red Sox offered a reliever with control problems, Buchholz (who is older than Felix, and not as good),a ROOGY, and a lefty just coming off TJ surgery… ***FLAIL***
Aroldis Chapman may not live up to the hype, yes. I’d still rather have Aroldis Chapman and watch him go bust than give up Joba, AJax, Montero and other stuff for Felix Hernandez.
I love Felix Hernandez, he’s an awesome pitcher, and I can’t wait to get him… when he hits free agency and won’t cost numerous elite prospects.
Agree.
First $200 million pitcher.
I’m on board with that.
Felix, our offer to you is 10 years/200Mil
To prove you we are serious, it is now 10 years/250 mil. You now have 6 hours to accept.
I’m so serious, I’m willing to openly offer him the contract now.
Yeah, there would be a tampering penalty. Probably a couple million and a loss of a draft pick or two. But I’d do it anyway. Let’s mail him the contract now and let him post-date the signature.
/yeahi’mcrazy’d
I really can’t disagree with this comment…they’re the fucking New York Yankees, they should flex their muscles accordingly. However, if they did this could MLB bar Felix from signing with the Yankees?
Agreed.
To trade for Felix, Boston would literally have to sign over the rights of their AAA and AA clubs and then throw in Kelly for good measure.
The Yankees have to go “all-in” on Chapman. And that is cearly consistent with Cashman’s strategy the last three years. Why give up the farm to get a top MLB pitcher via trade when all it takes is cash to get an IFA? The Yankees have a much larger cache of money than they do high quality farm hands. And the cash is much more easily replenishable than good prospects.
Screw it, it’s not my money. I want Chapman. That way we don’t have all our chips in the collective Chamberlain, Hughes, Wang, Kennedy basket.
That’s not such a horrible basket though.
heh the chamberhuwangedy basket…
\juvenile’d
I like that name a lot, actually.
FWIW, I will say that some of the core posters here should consider toning down the sarcasm and derisive laughter.
As many of you older folks know, I have been here since early on, and I still enjoy reading multiple times per day. But I rarely bother to comment anymore. Honestly, it’s gotten so I bail on the comments before I even get in, because whenever I get into them, it’s likely I will have to wade through 25+ instances of insults, inside jokes at others’ expense and generally supercilious remarks.
While I realize the frustration with some of the more inane things posted here, the reality is that all this rhetoric around calling them out only makes things worse. If you want to calmly explain the fallacy in someone’s post, great. If you question the basis on which they arrived at what seems a faulty conclusion, that’s great too. But if all you’re going to do is make a sarcastic remark, think about if it’s really worth it. Does it add anything to the quality of content? Or are you just trying to demonstrate mental superiority to everyone else?
It’s getting so it’s almost as hard to find a meaningful comment here as it is to find one at LoHud.
Just one man’s opinion — you are now free to move about the cabin with flamethrowers.
I hear you dude. Everything is bogged down by two or three idiots who bask in the spotlight of being lambasted by everybody else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related (safe)
+1
well said.
There’s an easy way to bring things back to normal:
Stop replying to people who say insane, unsubstantiated shit.
Look, I love seeing threads with 150+ comments. But when it involves 30+ comments shouting down alex gonzalez and his crazy posts, it’s not worth it.
We don’t ban people like this because they’re not violating our guidelines. But we can choose to not reply to their ramblings.
Again, this is not to suppress dissenters. Many people can do this in a calm, rational manner, bringing evidence and facts to back them up.
Please, if someone says something completely off the wall, leave it alone. Only respond to people who deserve a response. I’ll try to remember the lesson myself.
Please, if someone says something completely off the wall, leave it alone. Only respond to people who deserve a response. I’ll try to remember the lesson myself.
One thousand times…yes.
don’t even mention people by name, that’s the recognition they want and thrive on.
Can we just call him “The Poster”?
Wow! I could see why you wrote this I read most of the comments its real ugly up there.
1. Sign Chapman.
2. Get him to convince Gouriell to defect.
3. Sign Gouriell.
4. Ticker-tape, bitches.
Now that he’s retired from the day-to-day operating of the team and he’s got more time on his hands, maybe we can convince the president to name Big George as the Special Diplomatic Envoy to Cuba.
forget that. there’s an easier way:
ross perot.
ross perot has LOTS of military/exmilitary/paramilitary friends. oh, and )#($* LOADS of money.
$$$$$ + paramilitary strength and training + home addresses = LOTS of new ‘defectors’ from Cuba’s national team
its so easy a caveman could do it.
5. Give Melky an extension
i enjoy this site, i dont comment often, but yeah the bickering and inside jokes that put people down do detract from it
I’m a regular, but I get joked at constantly. Sure, my self esteem goes down and I turn emo from time to time, but RAB is that good man. It’s that good.
thats awesome
im not talkin about the jokin around stuff, im talkin about the nasty stuff, but your right , this is a great site, ok ,im done complaining, come on Yankees lets kick some angel ass !!
Agree. But there is also a culture (sometimes bad and sometimes good) here and if anyone disagree with it be prepared to do a lot of writing.
I think the overall value of the site overrides the stupid stuff and to be honest why take things so damn seriously the whole object of baseball is to entertain.
Get this guy signed. He’s that bonafide ace type guy the Yankees could use in their system.
That is all.
Chapman is not an ace!
There’s only two guys that I wouldn’t mind the Yankees throwing tons of money at, and this guy’s one of them. Maybe he doesn’t work out, who cares? It’s not like the team’s short on good pitching. I just don’t want to see him go to the sox and kill us in a few weeks.
Oh and the other guy’s Yu Darvish, that guy’s nuts.