Nov
28
A thread open like no other
ByYou guys still chowin’ down on leftovers? I finished off my last plate’s worth at lunch, so sadly the Thanksgiving experience is all over for me. For shame. Just another 363 days until my favorite holiday comes around again.
Anyway, it’s a slow night around these parts, but go ahead and use this as your open thread. The only local team in action are the Rangers, who are taking on Sidney Crosby in Pittsburgh. Go ahead and talk about whatever you want, just be cool.
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The Eric Jagielo Watch
Josh Johnson is going nowhere.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....e-unlikely
This makes sense. If I were the Marlins, I’d figure you might as well go for it in 2010 with JJ leading the charge. If it looks you don’t got a shot, you can flip him for just as much at the trade deadline, or wait until next winter if you’re still in contention.
Now available from MLB.COM/Shop
http://shop.mlb.com/product/in.....75.1421552
Oh my.
In the link above: The driving force behind the 2012 apocalypse.
The Nets are trying to spring it on you unexpectedly, so that you buy it by accident.
Devils dismantled the Islanders. Life is good.
La vida es buena, a menos que su nombre sea Tiger Woods.
Hahahahaha. Poor Tiger Woods…
That Bruins game yesterday was the most entertaining hockey game I’ve seen in awhile.
How good did Zharkov look today? It’s amazing what they’ve been able to do with these kids from Lowell this season. For years I’ve been hearing that the Devils’ player development system was barren and would become a problem, but the reality is just the opposite.
The old guys are pretty good too… Elias and Rolston really look like they’re hitting their groove.
I know very little about hockey (I only really got into it mid last year)but I keep hearing Halischuk’s name being mentioned. Seems to me as if he’s playing well.
Yeah he’s been playing well. He hit a couple of posts today, could have had a couple of goals with a little luck. He’s not as talented as, and won’t have the impact of, the first-round picks (Parise, Zajac, Bergfors… Hopefully we can add Corrente to that group someday soon), but he certainly looks like he can be an effective player in the NHL.
Rolston’s said that Elias returning has been tremendous for his own game.
And the Devils might have the best farm system in the league.
Lamoriello: Best GM in the history of sports EVER.
Boom, I just said that.
Heh. I actually agree. And I’ve said this out loud to people.
Heh. Hockey’s Future rated the Devils’ farm system 29th out of the 30 teams last month.
http://tinyurl.com/y93barv
Seems kind of weird, because it looked like they had more nice things to say than not about the farm system.
Their entire rating seems to be based on the Devils not having a back up plan for Brodeur.
I know. Of course they didn’t have one last year, and then Clemson came in and did just fine.
You just never know.
BTW, Brodeur has been playing out of this world lately.
Agreed.
I’ll let the results speak for themselves.
BTW, just noticed you’re using my nickname. Nice!
Oh I agree, I just meant you’d never know it from the reports in the media about their system. Like Mike said above, the player development system’s been taking knocks in the media the last couple of years. These guys have been very pleasant surprises this year.
So Tim Tebow: Great football player or Greatest football player?
/Colbert’d
put the word college in front of football. he will not be great as a pro….
“Now entering the gates of Heaven . . . Derek . . Jeter.. . Jeter.”
http://nomaas.org/blog/wp-cont.....eofgod.jpg
Shysterball is no more.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/shysterball/
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....taro-.html
“…Amongst other things, Bowden pushes the Yankees to beat Boston to the punch and deal Joba Chamberlain, Brett Gardner, and Ian Kennedy to the Blue Jays for Roy Halladay…”
Would you do that trade?
No.
No Joba.
If I’m Toronto, I don’t even make that trade.
Yes. As long as the contract extension window is in there and we get Doc for the next 4 or 5 years.
The window shouldn’t change much, though. You can just as easily trade for him, then negotiate an extension on your time afterwards.
I heard you mention the window doesn’t mean much on the radio show. Isn’t there something to be said about the assurance of getting him for the next X amount of years?
Maybe my understanding of how it works is wrong, but I thought that if you cannot come up with a new contract within that time frame, then the deal is annulled. So that means that if you cannot convince Doc to sign at the proposed rate (let’s say remainder of his current contract + 4/$72), you can choose to say screw it, I’d rather keep my pieces then.
The Blue Jays are not giving you the contract, you are negotiating it on your own. Assuming Halladay gets say 4/88, that’s full market price, it’s no bargain. You’re giving up a boatload of prospects for him AND paying him as if he was a free agent.
Just imagine if he had five years and $104M left on his contract, and you agreed to assume that entire obligation in a trade. You’d want to pay less in players since you’re taking such a big contract off their hands. This is no different.
If Toronto negotiated the extension on team friendly terms, it would be different.
Well on the contract I proposed, it would amount to a 5/88, which averages to $17.6M annual. Its not cheap, but its not much more than AJ’s deal either. I fully realize it would be the Yankees negotiating this deal, not Toronto.
The benefit of the contract window for Doc is that he has a chance to get $72M more guaranteed right now and get the hell out of Toronto.
If he says he needs more money than that, maybe the Yankees are better off passing, and the window gives them the opportunity to make that evaluation.
That’s what I’m thinking, set me straight Mike.
That’s not market rate. Why would Roy sign for below market rate when he can just go free agent in 11 months?
Why not see if you have the opportunity? He might bite. If he doesn’t then screw it, you can still make the trade anyway.
You’re paying him market rate, so there’s no residual value that would affect the deal and need to compensate the Jays for. He’s not underpaid in that scenario, that’s why it doesn’t affect the trade for either side.
The proposed trade is Joba, IPK, and Gardner. The Jays wouldn’t be getting any extra compensation, they’d be granting the contract extension window in order to get those players.
I get the gist that isn’t a big deal but does it literally have no benefit? I would think its better to have it than not have it.
Yeah, and what’s the rush? Why not let him pitch for 2010, and then sign him to an extension in the off season. Its not like the Yanks don’t have the ability to pay market rate, and Roy has said he’s looking to settle in somewhere.
Pitchers do get hurt. I don’t want to extend him, just in case. Some people were saying we should extend Wang for the past few seasons, but I haven’t heard much from them lately.
That trade lets you hold onto Hughes and Montero and Jackson. While I may be completely misvaluing our system, I’d do the trade.
First of all, I don’t even think Toronto makes that trade.
But assuming they do, I really don’t like giving up Joba or Hughes. I’d rather keep both and give us a decent shot of having at least 1 pan out, or both pan out.
My first reaction is that if Jim Bowden suggests it, it must be a bad idea. But I must admit that’s not awful.
The Jays GM said yesterday his #1 need is Catcher, then OF. Barajas is leaving so he needs to be MLB ready (forget Romine). I guess a pitcher would have to be included as well, so a deal that suits the positions they need would be one of these combinations
Joba/Hughes, Cervelli, Melky/Gardner
or
Montero, IPK/Nova/Z-Mac, Melky/Gardner
I wouldn’t give up 2 high upside guys, so any package would only include one of the Montero/Hughes/Joba group.
So to answer your question, yes. I’d do one of the above deals. But I still think The Jays will take a Phillies offer over a Yanks/Sox offer if its anywhere close.
Id do the trade , your giving up 3 players not named hughes , montero , and jackson
So what are the plans if Damon takes a multi yr offering from a different team? Personally I really hpoe that the team won’t give Johnny 2 yrs, Johnny for 2 is worse than Holliday for 5 IMO….I wish things were about to get interesting, but they’re probably not for awhile. I wonder if Boras is trying to get Damon to a team like SFO so we get in on Holliday.
Cashman has a little book he carries around with his contingency plans. He showed it to me the other day, and it went something like this-
Plan A-Sign Damon
Plan B-Trade for Curtis Granderson
Plan C-Sign MIke Cameron and move Melky to LF
Plan D-Sign Jason Bay
Plan E-Sign Matt Holliday
I think Plan C and B should be switched.
You’re assuming A-Jax is still around, no?
I assume he went in either the Hallday or Granderson deal.
Pending the Halladay decision, I’d put Matt Holliday as Plan A, heh.
With a name like “Evil Empire” I would expect nothing less.
There is no budget on the Death Star.
Damn right! The Yankees have room to make a major acquisition in 2010, whether its Halladay or Holliday. I’d probably prefer Holliday actually. They can still get a DH – Matsui or otherwise – and resign Pettitte. They’d be pretty set.
The luxury tax cap moves up I think about $5M to the $170M threshold so they’ve got that going for them, and they’re coming off a World Series championship in the first year of their new stadium. Yankee pockets are DEEP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdc7v4vkbJI
Come to the dark side, Luke. It is your DESTINY!!!
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-pNg.....e+jedi.jpg
D and E should also be switched.
What are our plans , Bring up jackson ? sign cameron ? sign holliday ? trade for an outfielder ? hmmm
you guys are too quick for me damn…
All this Halladay trade talk boggles my mind. You want to replace a 500 thou contract with a 20 mil one. This team won 103 games, now we’re going for 120. Obviously the Yankees can do it. Does it make fiscal sense? No. You want four quality pitchers for the playoffs. At this point the Yankees have that. If they go for Halladay where is the flexibility? In three years you have a bunch of old guys playing. A trade for Granderson makes sense, Halladay not so much.
You know that SI seriously made A-Rod one of their turkeys of the year, along with Plaxico Burress, the NY Mets, Steve Phillips, and Eric Mangini?
WTF? Seriously? Any residual respect I had for SI just died.
They’re just doing it to shock everyone when he’s on the cover as MAN OF THE DECADE next issue.
To be fair, he did get outed for using steroids after years of denials (including a denial in a 60 Minutes interview) and being held out (and putting himself out there) as the clean hope. I’m psyched he had such a great season on the field and that even his PR improved as 2009 passed, but the steroid thing was still a huge deal.
Come on, he turned everything aroun completely and has won a WS after a sick postseason.
It’s ridiculous that he’s on the list.
Look, I disagree, and this is a wholly subjective matter. I don’t think what he did on the field erases what made him a turkey this year, the same way what made him a turkey didn’t affect my opinion of what he does on the field. The A-Rod steroid story was a huge story, as much as you might not like to admit it. The man was touted as the clean player who would right the wrongs of the steroids era, and he accepted that mantle and promoted it himself. It was a huge story when he was outed. For the first few months of the year, it was the story in the world of sports. I don’t have any problem with SI recognizing that in a year-end of list of the negative sports stories of the year.
I totally agree-it was a MASSIVE sory. It was an ENORMOUS story.
I just don’t think that somebody who has turned his life around the way he has should be on the list. I mean, steroid issues aren’t really off the field. It’s cheating in baseball. And in baseball he came back clean after an injury and remained totally inoffnsive, then had a monster postseason and won a WS. I thought he should’ve been in the discussion for comeback player of the year (although I suppose that comeback player of the year is for players coming back from bad seasons the previous year, not bad starts to seasons).
A-Rod started off as a turkey, but he turned that around in a big way.
But we should probably stop the discussion. Neither of us are going to go anywhere with this, lol.
It’s a year-end retrospective. It’s not about who is a turkey today, it’s about who was a turkey at some point in 2009. It’s not ridiculous that he’s on the list, but it is ridiculous for this trivial an issue, of all things, to cause you to lose your remaining respect for SI.
And the fact that he had a triumphant season on the field doesn’t erase the fact that he was exposed as a massive fraud. I know a lot of people here don’t like to speak of A-Rod that way, but it’s the truth. He was exposed as a liar. Home runs don’t erase that.
Okay, my last word since neither are going to convince the other of anything…
As a year end retrospective, I DO think that what he did on the field turned his life around. He was not only great, he was inoffensive. And he was great in the playoffs for the first time CLEAN, or presumably clean. Making a player who is a champion for the first time a turkey of the year strikes me as rather ridiculous.
He can be on the champions list and on the turkey list. Champion list for on-field accomplishments, turkey list for being exposed as a massive fraud. The two are not mutually exclusive.
If you think what he did on the field erases his being exposed as a lying fraud off the field, then I’d like to just be nice and say ‘agree to disagree’, but really, you’re just wrong. One has nothing to do with the other.
Fine, I’ll post this:
http://subwaysquawkers.blogspot.com/
The top article talks about A-Rod. I agree w/Lisa.
And I disagree for the same reasons I’ve listed here in this conversation. I’m not sure what purpose that link serves in this conversation, she didn’t say anything you didn’t say here. If it was an appeal to authority, it was an appeal to pretty weak authority.
It was a way to perhaps say what I was trying to say better.
Good night. I’m tired, I still disagree, and my Nano is 45000 words away from completion.
It said the same things you said, and was wrong for the same reasons. Take it easy.
Mondesi always, always, always, always has to have the last word.
And V always has to drop in with a totally relevant addition to the conversation.
Case. In. Point.
Yup, you win. I always have to have the last word, you’re right. You, on the other hand, always have to drop into conversations in which you’re not involved in order to try to take a shot at me. It’s kinda cute and stalker-y at the same time. I’d rather be the last-word guy than the obsessed/irrelevant guy, but that’s just me.
:rofl:
Man, this is just beyond hilarious.
Stop trying to steal my last word, V.
:snort:
::Offers tissue::
k
You’re welcome.
nope
Well that’s just not gracious at all!
k.
No need to be a Negative Nancy when someone tries to lend you a helping hand, V. If we can’t offer our fellow man a basic amount of courtesy than what is our society really built on, anyway?
By the way, this is my last comment in this conversation. Go ahead and take the last word if you would like it, I want you to have that opportunity as a token of my good will.
Last word.
V, you ignorant and gullible slut!
I do appreciate your spunk. You have even proven yourself to be just as much a last-word guy as me… You’re both a last-word guy and an obsessed/irrelevant guy, that’s truly an impressive combination! Tip o’ the cap to you, my good man.
Ok.
V, my man (or woman), you’ve figured out the way to take all the motivation out of this conversation for me – by posting tedious comments utterly devoid of wit. You’re like the New Jersey Nets of RAB, just showing up but with no hope of actually doing anything worthwhile.
::yaaaaaaaaaawn::
Last words, 8 days later. Ha!
Erm, 9.
You underestimate the power of the Dark Side.
Not really.
I am the winnah!!!
I’m not sure it’s possible to win this game by getting the last comment in, seeing as to how either of us can drop in at any time and take the lead.
Winning on wit, though, by posting entertaining comments while you were just being tedious and annoying… I did that months ago.
Sorry.
Me too.
(Internet hand-shake?)
http://robertfinkelstein.files.....dshake.jpg
Oh come now… Bring it in here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmTRFvZ_Cp4 (safe)
I can’t believe you beat me like that man
Cool. Cool cool cool.
Hehehehe gawd I’m lame
Whoever is against trading for Halladay and/or Granderson, say “I”
Typically good, funny, smart piece from the other Joe P.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
The LVP’s of 2009.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....pe-as.html
Good piece on draft pick compensation.
You offer it to Johnny Damon? Boras rarely accepts arb. He not only goes FA but often takes his clients deep into January. If you think there’s a 2 year deal out there for Johnny, you offer. If not . . would it be so bad to have Johnny come back on a 1 year deal? The Yanks are insisting on not givin g him a long term deal, and are on record saying they would like 1 year possibly with an option. 2 years would be tops they would offer. Why not?
I offer it.
I agree, I offer it as well. I’d rather overpay for one year than pay market value for 2+ years.
I also agree, I’d like to see them offer it. I think he’d decline, and even if he accepted all it’d mean is that you have your DH, or possibly a contributor at LF, at an overpriced salary for one season. I think the upside pretty clearly outweighs the risk.
Definitely agree with all of you smart gentlemen.
Hanley Ramirez to Boston?
7. David Samson
The Florida Marlins president obviously has no shame. After finally succeeding in securing a new taxpayer-funded stadium for the Marlins in downtown Miami – supposedly enabling the Marlins to have the financial means to keep their star players – Samson demonstrated he has no intention of doing that when he refused to give his best pitcher, Josh Johnson, a four-year extension. Now it also looks as if Hanley Ramirez won’t ever see that new stadium in a Marlins uniform as the Red Sox, who let incumbent Alex Gonzalez go, are reportedly engaged in talks with Florida about reacquiring the All-Star shortstop.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z0YDC6wXN7
and WTF is it with Madden supposedly having all these Red Sox contacts? First the Halladay-to-the-Sox stuff, now this. I smell a big, fat rat.
Don’t buy it. Hanley ain’t moving. If he is, that would be a huge coup for the Sox. But he’s not.
I think Madden is carrying somebody’s water for them. Watch him get a big Red Sox-related scoop later this off season.
None of these stories ring true to me. They all seem designed to have the same effect, and that’s to scare the Yanks into doing something.
I mean, why would they move him? And what would the Red Sox have to give up? Seriously. They’d have to give up, like, half their farm.
He is scheduled to make big bucks soon
Hanley Ramirez ss
6 years/$70M (2009-14)
* 6 years/$70M (2009-14)
o signed extension with Florida 5/17/08
o 09:$5.5M, 10:$7M, 11:$11M, 12:$15M, 13:$15.5M, 14:$16M
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....ey+ramirez
But it doesn’t really kick in until 2011-14.
But they’re competitive…it makes no sense.
Their payroll is 26 mil. Paying 1 guy 11-15 doesn’t work for them.
But again, that happens after next season.
This came too far from LF for me. I didn’t ever hear them hint at trading Hanley until now.
Not happening.
The fact that before tonight you hadn’t yet heard news about the Marlins and their possible plans to discuss a trade of Hanley Ramirez is not a valid reason why Hanley won’t be traded.
If Hanley is moved, it would be a lot more public, and a lot more teams would be involved. If the Marlins called up the Sawx (or vice versa), and Hanley was discussed, the Marlins could get more from many teams than the Red Sox can give them (Neftali Feliz + Elvis Andrus +?)
Probably, but this could very well just be the start of the Hanley talks, right? All I’m saying is that fact that one commenter hasn’t heard rumors of these talks in the past doesn’t mean they won’t happen.
What does anyone think about bringing in Troy Glaus as a DH? He’s had success in the AL, would be a powerful (and pretty patient) RHB, and I would guess he’d come cheap. I wouldn’t want to give him longer than 1 or 2 years, but if the price was right, what do you think?
Also, how the hell did he not finish in the top 20 in the MVP vote in 2000? Led the league in HR’s, 150 OPS+, 1.008 OPS (7th in league), even had 14 steals (though 11 CS). Probably the 102 RBI that brought him down, what a joke.
To me trading of Joba, Hughes is simply impatience. Pitchers don’t come into their own till age 25 or so. Joba had a good first half then looked to be running out of gas. Fitness? Hughes was great and the experience should help him immensely. The need is the OF. The OF of Damon, Melky and Swish is below average defensively. Melky is of little value as a corner OF, (no power), and barely average in CF. Maybe he’s a late bloomer.
If the Yankees can acquire Roy Halladay without giving up Jesus Montero, I’d do the deal.
I wouldn’t particularly approve if the Yankees included Austin Jackson…but if they did, I could live with it. You are obtaining one of the best pitchers currently in the MLB. You have a potential rotation of:
Roy Halladay
C.C. Sabathia
AJ Burnett
Andy Pettitte (assuming he returns)
? (could be Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, Chien-Ming Wang, Alfredo Aceves)
That’s a scary, scary, scary rotation. You have two aces, potentially three if Burnett has a season similar to 2008 or even potentially FOUR if Chien-Ming Wang returns to his form before the 08-09 season (that’s a big, big leap but crazier things have happend).
I think the Yankees as an organization have realized pitching will always win you championships. A rotation like the one I listed above is a near lock for this team to repeat as Champions, if all goes well.
Too many variables over 162 games + postseason. No such thing as a near lock.
I can’t believe that everyone forgot what today is….after Melmas, which incidentally is exactly 1 month away, this is the most important day of the year. TODAY IS JESUS’ BIRTHDAY!!!!!
Feliz Cumpleaños (or Cumpleaños Feliz) Jesus Montero. We all look forward to seeing you dominate in your 20′s.
Okay with Halladay you have a 200 mil payroll and you haven’t addressed LF and DH.
Holliday is perfect for the Yankees other than length of contract. Hallady just adds 20 mil to the payroll before the DH need.
I agree that Matt Holliday is a good fit for the team. I’d really like to see us sign him.
Holliday isn’t preferable either. He wants Teix money but he’s not quite like Teix offensively. IMO it’s best if the Yanks let him go.
Just because he wants Tex money doesn’t mean he’ll get it. I’d offer him 5/90 and see if anyone can beat it.
I still don’t think he’s worth that type of commitment. For the Yankees anyways.
I like Holliday just fine but if Bay refused 4/60 from Boston than Holliday’s contract would be an anchor down the road. The Yankees have too many long term contracts as it is. The Yankees needed Teix and overpaid, no need to do it again.
I’d just bring back the same team, and roll the dice.
Replace Damon with Cameron short term, then agreed. If it ain’t broke……
id sign up for that