Nov
02
World Series coming back to the Bronx after Yanks drop Game Five
By Mike AxisaOur full recap will be up a little, so this will have to hold you over.
AJ Burnett completely crapped the bed, which had little to do with short rest and almost everything to do with the fact that he’s AJ Burnett. Phil Coke was somehow worse in garbage time. At least Al Aceves and Phil Hughes got some work in.
Cliff Lee wasn’t as good as he was in Game One, but he was still pretty good. The Yanks did their best to rally late, but fell just short. It was a valiant effort boys, now go get ‘em on Wednesday.
Oh, and the O”Neill Theory is in full effect.
Posted on Monday, November 2nd, 2009 at 11:31 pm in Asides, Game Stories, Playoffs.
Can we get an outline of the O’Neill theory for n00bs like myself? I know the jist of it i think
score in the 9th. even if you lose, it carries over to the next game
But is the O’Neill theory valid if you have a day off in between games? Argh.
i think it is!
Give the ball to Andy and he’ll finish them off!
Theory valid. Phils have no pen, and were on the ropes last night.
Anytime a losing team really starts hitting late, that carries over and they’ll win the next game.
IIRC, the theory is that a team that rallies to score runs late in a game, even if it loses, gets a boost that carries over into the next game.
we never quit
and remember:
phillies starter in game 6: our son
phillies starter in game 7 (if it happens): a guy who wishes the season were over
winning in the new house will be sweet
Does anyone really think the Phillies can win three in a row with Martinez and Hamels/Happ pitching the next two? Really?
Oh, and let’s stop pitching to Utley.
But Cliph Lee in teh bullpen!
I have to wonder how much of his salary his commits to hair gel.
Ask BigBlueAL.
Everyone needs to relax.The Yanks took 2 out of 3 in Philly.
That is a great job. Now we will celebrate at home in the Cathedral.
Amen. Agreed. Just gotta win 1 of 2 at home…can’t think “if we lose game 6″…just gotta win 1 of 2.
Even a mediocre start by Burnett and we probably win tonight. Or if Coke doesn’t shit the bed. Or Jeter doesn’t hit into a dp in the 9th. Oh well, we’ll mess up Pedro and take it at home.
What if, what if? Yeah, it sucks. Let’s move on win this in New York.
” AJ Burnett completely crapped the bed, which had little to do with short rest and almost everything to do with the fact that he’s AJ Burnett. ”
And the Yankees paid how much for him….
It doesn’t matter. At all.
What does it matter how much he makes? It’s not your money.
Its pretty sad that you pay over 80 million for a pitcher and when he craps the bed you chalk it up to that is who he is.
Okay…and he dominated in a must win game for the Yankees in game 2 of this series. Stop fucking complaining.
I’m gonna go ahead and guess that you slept through Game Two.
Would you have preferred Derek Lowe?
The Yankees wouldn’t be here without Burnett. No one can honestly say we’d be in the World Series with only CC and Andy.
Not for nothing, but did you watch game 2? That was coming into a 0-1 hole for the series.
Inconsistent or not, we aren’t here w/out AJ Burnett.
Agreed. I’m sick and tired about the “how much money is he getting paid” crap.
We have the resources hence we use the f’n resources! Be happy that we aren’t the freakin’ Twins whose Owner is RICHER than The Boss but is a cheap skate when it comes to his team.
heh, he’s also DEADER than The Boss.
Agree 100%
But those resources are the loyal fan base.
Ok. I don’t really care about what he making he is over paid so be it. But I really hate when people say “It’s not your money”. We as fans pay for tickets, Yankees gear, T.V., etc. and as NY tax payers we either directly or indirectly chipped in for some of the cost of the stadium.
So if it’s not the fans money then is there a Yankees fairy that I don’t know about because I for one would like a loan.
Bottom-line:
Yankees fans money = 208 million dollar pay roll.
They paid market price. But I’m sure you’d be much happier with Derek Lowe, or Oliver Perez maybe.
How much are the Phillies paying for Ryan Howard?
See, I can bring up irrelevant points that mean absolutely nothing as well.
Yeah dont compare Howard to Burnett. Burnett hasnt had 1 regular season in his entire career that can come close to any season of Howards career.
Sure, Burnett’s never been CY quality but let’s not act like the guy is a total bum. You know when the last time he had an ERA+ under 100 was? 2003, when he pitched in a grand total of 23 innings. Since then, he’s been at 105 or better. A.J. Burnett = good pitcher who had a shitty night.
And yet, even with tonight’s bad performance, AJ Burnett has done more to help his team win the 2009 World Series than Ryan Howard did to help his team win the 2009 World Series. And, they’re both making the same money.
I just hope all this faith you guys have in Pettitte on 3 days rest pays off.
Not us, guy. The Yankees themselves.
If you think about it, he could go 5 innings and some combination of Robertson/Marte/Joba/Hughes will pick him up.
Then there’s that other guy who only seems to throw one pitch. He’s not a bad option. If only I could remember his name…
well of course that is a given, my dude
I was thinking the same thing!
It’ll be nailbiter, but it’ll work.
I wish the douchebags on tv would look into the camera and say:
“We have no idea how these games will turn out. baseball is the most unpredictable sport in the world. Don’t listen to a word we say.”
/sterling’d
Can someone PLEASE tell me why they didn’t pinch run Pena for Matsui?! Ramino Pena coulda stolen 2nd, and then Jete wouldn’t have hit the double play.
i don’t think you’re sending the runner down three runs, even to avoid the dp. it’s too risky.
You do when you have Matsui running at first, and Jeter at bat. They switched Jeter’s batting order to help prevent double plays.
Yes they did, but you’re STILL not sending Peña in that situation. You’re not going to risk getting thrown out at second on a stolen base with Ramiro Peña, who is not a prolific base stealer, just to remove the threat of the double play.
But say Peña scored and the inning ended 8-8. We’d have no one left to pinch-hit… that’s my limited understanding, at least.
seriously, you can’t send the runner down three runs. It’s crazy. the chance of getting thrown out is 50/50. the chance of a double play is 10 to 1.
I said in the previous thread. I think he was the last guy on the bench. No?
And you need an emergency player to remain on the bench in the case of an injury.
I still stand by what I said earlier today when I felt we should have started Gaudin tonight to set up the rest of our pitchers on full rest. Now we have a 37 year old on 3 days rest…and CC for a 3rd time in a row on 3 days rest…and the last time he did that? He faced the Phillies in the first round and got shelled last year…
2nd time in a row for CC, not three. He was on 6 days rest in Game One.
Ahh…my bad…still. He hasn’t exactly been stellar…but he’s gotten the job done. If we lose Wednesday…the pressure might strike like it did in Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS. This is a different team…but we need to win wednesday!!!
Even when CC struggles, we still WIN. But, why the heck are we talking about game 7? Dont forget these guys will be seeing Pedro for the second time. What do you think that might be like?
Similar to the 2nd time we saw Cliff Lee? It will depend on how Andy throws. 37 years old on 3 days rest…
Old man Pedro ain’t Cliff Lee.
so we’re comparing Lee to an again Pedro?
Goodnight Rose.
“Similar to the 2nd time we saw Cliff Lee?”
Um, do you see the difference?
Lee’s 1st game: 9 IP 0ER
Lee’s 2nd game: 7 IP 5ER
With a worse lineup, no less.
He was on full rest going into Game 1 on the WS, and showed no lingering effects from the 2008 NLDS.
Keep standing by it. It won’t make it any righter, but at least you’ll have your principles, however misguided they may be.
You know what I love about you, Rose? You’re always looking for the positive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ
Let me ask you this- if Gaudin pitched tonight and sucked (high % of that happening) and they still scored 5 runs off of Lee what would your opinion be?
You cant start Gaudin. Just cant do it.
You really think anyone on this team wants to go down without Andy P getting 2 starts?
OMG it’s Lanny with actual smart input!
Not that smart. Hindsight might be 20/20 but setting up chess pieces for very possible future games is a good idea too…
Have you seen Gaudin’s split stats against left-handed batters? OBP is above .400.
Utley/Howard/Ibanez would have eaten him alive.
Chad Gaudin, career:
vs RHB – .249/.318/.409 (.728)
vs LHB – .293/.389/.433 (.822)
Yeesh.
So start Aceves! lol
Yeah, those are the numbers. Thanks, my dude.
I could easily see Ryan Howard breaking out of his slump against Gaudin. Joe Blanton is a far better pitcher than Gaudin. If 6 IP, 4 ER is what we expect from Blanton, I can guarantee much worse for Gaudin.
Rose says:
So start Aceves! lol
No.
Stop being so obtuse.
Me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joking
You: http://www.amazon.com/They-Can.....1434300048
The problem with your jokes is they sound way too similar to your misguided negativity and flawed reasoning borne out of needless fear and irrational doubt.
Forgive me for not being able to tell the difference between your clever and oh-so-witty “Start Aceves in Game 5 of the World Series” joke from your serious “Start Gaudin in Game 5 of the World Series” repeated suggestion.
Giving away a game in the WS is not a good idea.
teh !!1 why not strart A.j!!@!#!
I’d feel a little better that we’d have AJ on full rest AND Andy on full rest with CC in the pen if needed.
Much better than what we have right now.
Wait a second…you’d start Andy in Game 7 instead of CC?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3y3QoFnqZc
Moot. CC has the same amount of rest regardless. You want him to start? He still can. Regardless, you have Andy on full rest…AJ too for Game 6…
actually there was an 8 day layoff between his game 5 in the ALCS and game 1 in the WS. this will only be his 2nd straight start on 3 days rest (thats if the yanks don’t take game 6, which they will) and the last time he did that was last night when he pitched a great game on the road in Philly, not last year.
If I knew we were going to lose this game either way then yeah, I might agree with you. But considering I lost the ability to predict the future when pat stopped supplying me that magic white powder he had, I’ll have to go with common sense and say putting your best pitcher out there is never the wrong move
three days rest is a myth. he’s throwing a fucking ball. what does that extra 24 hours do for a pitcher. he won’t go 8 innings, but he’ll be fine.
have faith, they have to pitch too. and, our bats are starting to warm up.
Agreed, we are now in a worse-off position… I still believe the Yankees will win, but man, this is my first major gripe with Girardi this postseason… I mean once you go up 3-1, take the risk with Gaudin, knowing you’re in good shape win or lose! Now…. I dunno.
I was do ready to go party in the streets tonight, maybe flip a car
When in Philadelphia…
Do as the Somalians!
Did I get that right?
Yeah bro! FUKKEN ANARCHY
Tex’s currency has run out. I understand he’s an amazing fielder but he has to get on base. At this point I rather see A-Rod hitting behind Damon. Johnny is a bulldog and will fight his way onto base. And Tex continues to fcuk up behind him.
So the 8th inn hit doesnt matter?
small sample sizes bro. you could cherry pick 1 or 2 slumps of this magnitude/length for every hitter in baseball, except maybe albert, every single year. tex came up huge for us in the regular season, and hit a walkoff hr in the postseason. I’d say his yankee credit score is still pretty freakin strong
He conveniently forgets the game winning homer, the bases clearing homer in ana, the hit bef a rods homer vs nathan, the homer vs pedro
Yea hes done nothing
Lanny’s got Tex’s back. MY BOY!
I meant in this series. I don’t disagree that he was awesome all season and stepped up in the twins series. But he hasn’t been affective in the WS.
In this series?
Talk about small sample size.
The guy only lead the league in Hr’s and RBi’s!!
So he K’d in the 9th as the tying run. Does that mean he should bat 6th now????
Whos managing? Torre in 2006?
Again you conveniently forget that out of his small # of hits they are all big, his defense is out of this world and series saving, and he has put some good ab’s together the past 2 games.
I meant in this series. I don’t disagree that he was awesome all season and stepped up in the twins series. But he hasn’t been affective in the WS.
We don’t give a shit. He’s still Tex. One of the best players in baseball. He keeps starting. He keeps hitting #3. Nothing changes.
Saying “his currency has run out” after five games of the World Series is batshit fucking insane, and you sound ridiculous. You’re embarrassing yourself.
He also had a monster hit in this series to swing the tide in Game 2. Fuck it though, that’s not enough to maintain his currency.
Tex’s currency has run out.
Batshit insane.
If Tex’s currency has run out what about Cano and Swisher???
I’m also guessing defense doesnt play any role in this currency thing.
Worst contract ever, fire Cashman, I have the short-term memory of a Japanese koi fish
http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/5071946 (safe)
the nature of tonight’s game was frustrating, sure, but think of it this way: if somebody said, going into philly, that we’d win the pettitte/hamels and sabathia/blanton matchups, and lose the lee/burnett matchup, what would you have said? something along the lines of “that seems likely,” no?
The time has come to hit Utley. make him uncomfortable. Move his feet. Its ridiculous now.
Is Torre still managing?
That won’t make him uncomfortable. He relishes in the HBPs.
Well whatever they’re doing isnt working right?
Considering how close he stands to the plate, he seems prepared to get hit if necessary.
Chase Utley has lead the league in HBP the last 3 years. 25, 27, 24.
Still got to change that eye level and make him uncomfortable at some point. I know hes a bulldog but you cant let him hang over the plate and mash the outer half.
Yeah, same thing they did to A-Rod.
He should get hit just for that.
Id rather have him at 1st with Howard up than him hitting homers.
So damn close…what a heartbreaker.
Fatcessa is gonna be insufferable tomorrow.
buy an audiobook hahah
Why was the ump squeezing the sides all game UNTIL we decided to rally…then all of the sudden 6 inches off the plate is a strike for the Yankees…
we get this shit wednesday
i missed the ending of the game, glad the yankees fought back till the end, i dont expect anything less from this team. damn you phil coke!
seeeeeeriously. fffukkayuuu dolphihhn, an ffffukkayuuu whale!!!
You know something, the trolls and bridge-jumpers are right.
If only we had hitters that never make an out and pitchers that never give up a run, we’d have won this thing by now.
This team sucks.
you forgot that ARod will never be a TRUE Yankee until he goes 4-4 with 5 grand slams!!!
That bum made outs twice tonight, and didn’t even get to the plate in the 9th when we needed him most. He sucks.
My boy Scotty Bro woulda hit like 7 homers tonight. I’m sure of it.
But you have to concede we expect more from Tex, Cano, and Swisher. It is frustrating to see guys who were great in the regular season choke like Mama Cass.
It’s the postseason, bro. Everyone’s numbers go down because they face superior pitching.
Well how come gamers like Jeter, Damon, Utley, and Ruiz see their numbers go up ?
“gamers”
Ugh. Gimme a break. People actually believe this bullshit now.
lol what the fuck who believes in “gamers” anymore
In a single postseason, it’s all small sample size.
Oh by the way for everyone jumping on my ass for bringing up the amount of money we paid for Burnett I can only imagine the mocking everyone here would be doing towards the team that wouldve paid Burnett that amount of money whenever he shits the bed like he did tonight.
Actually I dont even give a shit that he sucked tonight but more the fact that everyone here just accepts the fact he sucked as if its no big deal its just who he is. Thats an even more telling statement than me ripping his salary which in the end I dont care but sorry if we sign a pitcher for over 80 million I would want a pitcher who when they pitch bad we are shocked not so accepting of it because thats just who he is.
but the thing is, we offered/paid that money knowing that’s what AJ is. he’s highly questionable and inconsistent, but when he’s absolutely locked in he’s one of the better pitchers in baseball.
i’d rather the guy who could give me a brilliant outing and out our offense a la AJ in game 2, than a guy who will always give me 6 innings of 4 run ball. It’s not like AJ pitches as poorly as he did tonight often anyway. Usually, even when he sucks he still gives you 5-6 innings. It’s just that joe g didn’t have the luxury of seeing how far he could go tonight.
If it wasn’t for Burnett we wouldn’t be up 3-2 right now, you dolt lol
lol Man its the first time I have ever brought up a player’s salary here and I got jumped on like a bitch!! lol
Let that be a lesson to you.
Yes Sensei.
Dude, Burnett is historically erratic – like the Little Girl with the Curl: “When she was good, she was very, very good, and when she was bad, she was awful.”
That’s how Burnett is. So you don’t want us to “accept” that. So what WOULD you like us to do about it?
Little Girl with the Curl?
http://img.wonkette.com/wp-con.....proval.jpg
Not one to harp on an umpire but that zone was ridiculously tight. Obscenely tight. Def got into Burnetts head.
At least we know now that it isnt Posada behind the plate. Its the little things sometimes.
My main problem with the zone was just the inconsistency. Also, the RH batter’s box side of the plate was, IMO, very wide.
All you can ask for is consistency.
We didnt get that tonight.
Yessir.
It was conveniently most noticeable during the rally’s in the last 2 innings…
Eh, it was shitty all night, not just in the last two innings.
It was painful. Watch the third inning again if you can stand it. Watch Molina hold every single pitch in the zone waiting/begging for a strike call especially during the Utley AB.
Moshe posted the Pitch F/X for the Rollins AB. Terrible. Burnett threw four strikes in that AB.
Another positive? Both Matsui and Posada will be in the lineup tomorrow. Phillies dont know who their closer is.
No they won’t be. Yankees aren’t playing tomorrow
lol
shit thought it was midnight already. Well played.
It’s funny, the word in NY will be that Girardi made a mistake starting Burnett, but the way this game played out fully supports his decision. Cliff Lee is not invincible, and there was no reason to concede this game. A decent performance from Burnett probably wins the World Series.
I think its more that now Pettitte has to start on 3 days rest. Burnett has a pretty good track record of starting on 3 days rest (albeit a small track record) so I dont think it was assuming Burnett would suck more that now Pettitte will have to pitch on 3 days rest and many will expect/assume he will suck.
agreed 2700 percent
Well on the bright side I cannot see Pedro doing what he did in Game 2.
You got to figure they are going to need 12-15 outs from the pen.
We have to support Andy with early runs and keep them coming.
Well on the bright side I cannot see Pedro doing what he did in Game 2.
+1
They got to Lee in this game after seeing him once, and they can easily do the same to Pedro. Again, no doubt that they win this bad boy. Like others have been saying, most of us thought Yankees in six. Hell, that’s what I thought and I wasn’t even expecting two wins in Philly. Getting two wins there was huge.
Though Pedro is a master who has reinvented himself. He was throwing pitches in all different speeds whenever he wanted. It’s almost impossible to prepare for that…you just have to hope he’s not as effective. Throwing several pitches anywhere from 67 mph to 90 mph at any time…then you think it’s 67mph and it comes in at 77mph…then 89mph…then back down to 68mph. It was just ridiculous.
Yeah, Lee was doing the same thign and they wore him down in Game Two. I’m not convinced Pedro can do that twice against the Yankees.
and we’ll have a fully rested pen including mo joba and marte all w/ 2 full days off, and drob, hughes and ace all decently sharp. Not to mention Pettitte going in a clinching game in Yankee stadium, so the 3 days rest “tiredness” could very well be erased by big-game adrenaline.
Exactly.
Who’s the all-time leader in series clinching games?….yeah.
Hey did anyone notice that Cano actually hit the ball hard? I am telling you the Yankees have a 10+ run game in them in the BX. Posada, Matsui, and some rest. Not even Gritner in the 9 hole will stop the offense in Game 6.
Cano finally had some good at bats. You can tell hes on the verge of getting hot. Tex too.
And a second helping of Pedro and that middle relief should only help.
My problem with Cano this post-season was something I posted in the other thread.
It seems as though he’s taking first pitches he should be ripping and swinging at first pitches he should be taking.
Hes been caught in that in between zone. Where everytime you look up he’s in the hole.
Hopefully tonight starts him getting back to what he is/should be.
Word.
Lanny, it’s nice talking to you like this. You should be this rational more often. It makes your presence on this site much more pleasant.
Yeah, props to Lanny. He’s been solid of late.
Yeah. It’s great that he takes the first pitch, but he doesn’t look comfortable batting with two strikes. Doesn’t seem like the best time to start changing his approach at the plate.
-The Yankees have a winning percentage of .704 at home.
-Matsui and Posada in the starting lineup Wednesday.
-Opposing starters will be Pedro and Hamels (outside chance of Blanton)
I think Ill take my chances…
Agreed on all points… but when was the last time Pettite pitched on 3-days rest?
Doesnt matter to me. Last start of the season…he will leave it all out on the field.
Oh, and, I’m still waiting for an explanation on how Burnett’s performance tonight predicts anything for Pettitte’s on Wednesday.
Big picture…
The Yankees have a 3-2 World Series lead after taking two of three in Philadelphia, where the Phillies had previously won 11 of 12. Moreover, the Yankees have the winningest postseason pitcher ever, Andy Pettitte, and CC Sabathia lined up for the next two games against Pedro Martinez and likely Cole Hamels.
Two more things: The Yanks will have their regular lineup intact (minus Melky), which means approximately eight combined Posada and Matsui at-bats, and they’ve already shown an ability to get to Philly’s bullpen late.
How can you not love the Yanks’ chances?
*I meant they had previously won 11 of 12 playoff games.
I’m Matt Imbrogno and I approve this message.
/CT resident who’s glad the NY mayor and NJ governor ads will stop tomorrow.
Politicians campaign every day, every year. They do more campaigning than legislation, in my opinion. Just not as many TV ads to scoff at during the “off-season”.
Because Tex, Cano, Gardner, and Swisher are all hitting below .180.
And those four hitting below .180 still means nothing. All of them are better hitters with true talent levels well above .180, meaning all of them are capable of snapping out of their slumps at the drop of a hat.
And, despite all four of them struggling on the hole, the three of them who have started games before tonight have all come up with timely hits during this WS.
Oh, and we were good enough to win 3 games thus far this WS with them all sucking. I’m not scared in the least.
Stop trying to find ways to talk yourself out of predicting victory.
+27.
That is the truly amazing but frustrating part, if they had just played average this series would be over. I am just trying to guard against the over confidence of some posters. I remember 2004 clearly when no one thought we could lose after going 4 up.
I am just trying to guard against the over confidence of some posters.
Our overconfidence is way more justified than your underconfidence is.
I remember 2004 clearly when no one thought we could lose after going 4 up.
2004 is clearly a statistical outlier. What happened to us that year has only happened to one single team in one single year in the 100+ year history of playoff baseball. You’re the only one still holding on to that bullshit. Give it a rest. Move on with your life. Stop living in fear of invented ghosts.
Stop trying to talk yourself out of the fact that we’re the best team in baseball.
lmao THey already asked that question! yeah burnett
It’s like 65% of the people here have already forgotten the ALCS. The Yankees have the lead and they’re heading back home with a re-stacked lineup.
Confidence level = +9000
What, 9000? There’s no way that can be right!
A lot of Yankees fans have the short-term memory of a goldfish.
A lot of Yankees fans have become fatalistic losers, like Red Sox fans of the 20th century.
It only took us 8 years, we’re like the Republicans during the Bush Administrations. Shit.
phillies could pull this one out, but we’re huge favorites. we have petitte and cc.
They have Pedro and ? We have Mariano. They have, put your head between your legs and pray. They can hit a ton, but so can we.
Could we lose? yes. Should we lose? no. We’re obviously the best team in baseball this year, and we’re one game from proving it.
At least Burnett and Coke are taking the heat like men.
So why did Coke come in and not Marte?
I think because it was a relatively low leverage situation. Bit ‘em in the ass a bit but what can you do?
Also Marte had pitched previous 2 games and they have been pretty careful with him since his return from the DL.
Disgusted by Robbie tonight. Even with A-Rod on 3rd, he basically popped out but Alex bailed him out by scoring anyway. I really hope he gets it going tomorrow and that his BABIP luck changes.
I think he is on the verge. He hit the ball harder tonight than he has all series.
The pop-up sucked, but I think he showed some emotion and started taking it out on the ball.
I mean we add Matsui to the line-up and they add Francisco.
Cano is so lazy he cant even do a sac fly right? That’s a new one.
Next time: Cano makes the play and throws to first for the out- yeah but only because Tex CAUGHT the ball.
Cano’s one of these guys who will never make fans happy.
I guess he should shrink 5 inches and become white and get his uni dirty for no reason.
Bingo.
Lanny’s on FIRE TONIGHT!
It can’t be the real him, can it?
I fucking love this version of Lanny. Can you please be like this all the time?
Lanny dropping motherfucking TRUTH BOMBS
I think you’re joking but to make sure, I’m hoping you were implying I called him lazy. I just said I was frustrated, not irrationally giving up on him or anything. I’m never (OK, 99% I’m not) negative.
Half joking, half serious.
I know you’re not the bridge jumping type, but still those are the types of comments you see about Cano. When he doesnt come through its because he has no passion, and when he does it’s because of what someone else does.
Yup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
As a devil’s advocate-type point, do you think the MSM does that on purpose or is it more of a subconscious thing? As dumb as they are, some may have a hard time believing that they are purposely racist rather than just accidentally racist.
Institutional racism, yo.
For another example, look how some are saying that Meb Keflegzhi winning the New York Marathon “doesn’t count” as an achievement for American distance running because he’s an Eritrean immigrant.
Excellent example.
If Meb Kefleghzi was named Danny O’Boyle, and he was a native Irishman who emigrated here and became a naturalized citizen, there’d be no “He’s not a real American” sentiment at all.
Institutional and non overt; non-conscious but still very real.
Institutional racism, yo.
Word.
I think the overwhelming majority of racism in America in 2009 is latent and fairly subconscious.
Oh I know there those people. I know Robbie is trying his best. It’s just not happening for him so Im hoping he comes alive.
Whats the weather like in NY? Any chance we see the Ninja on Wed night?
No idea. I’m in Colorado.
*weren’t
Phil Coke: ” I Want the ball back tomorrow. Period”…ok first, screw you hell no, no way. Second, you don’t play tomorrow fool!
As far as I’m concerned he can get the ball tomorrow…but definitely not on Wed.
Ooooookay. No.
Phil Coke shouldn’t even get the ball in a blowout for the rest of this season.
What about in a 15-1 blow out, or do you go with Bruney?
I rather send a lefty named Melky Cabrera than Phil Coke in a blowout game.
I think Marte should’ve been in before Coke, but the kid’s a rookie. He’s got to feel totally scagged, and he doesn’t want to look like a bitch. The attitude is to get back on the horse. It’s figurative. He’s not demanding he pitch.
6-2 game. You got to go Marte there right especially the way hes been going. SHould that have even been a thought?
The attitude is to get back on the horse
Yep, A-Rod’s gotta carry this team again.
LAWL
Winning 2 out of 3 in Philly is something I would’ve signed up for in a cocaine heartbeat. I’m satisfied with the team’s performance thus far and there’s some really good news, guys: The Phillies can’t start Cliff Lee every game.
Pedro is going to get demolished in game 6, Pettitte will do good enough, and Mo is good for 6 outs.
Confidence level: 27
+1 to all of this.
Long live the Empire.
Hot damn, I totally forgot about Mo for 6 outs.
Screw this, clear my schedule.
PARTY AT DREDOG’S ON WEDNESDAY
I am trying to think of something witty to say….I got nothing. Help anyone?
We’re going tubing?
Philadelphia has basically one pitcher, starter or reliever, who can dominate – that’s Cliff Lee. He threw 112 pitches tonight and for all practical purposes is done for the Series. The remainder of that staff can’t control the Yankees’ offense (with Matsui as DH) in the Stadium.
The Yanks will win this in Game 6, or they’ll win it in Game 7. But they will win it.
no doubt. the Yankees will put up 8 on Wednesday.
I have 10+ runs scored for the game. This offense has not hit all cylinders yet. And it looks like they are going to. That’s the scary part…for them.
Cliff Lee would’ve been good for 2 or 3 innings in game 7. I say would’ve because there isn’t going to actually be one.
If Petitte comes up big on Wednesday, he might get a plaque out there in monument park.
You mean immediately after the game right?
yes paulie theory, and here’s hoping Utley doesn’t see another hittable pitch unless the bases are loaded. And honestly I hope of those walks is of the variety Philly gave to A-Rod 3 times in 2 games followed by McCarver chirping “Clearly the intention in this spot was NOT to intentionally hit Chase Utley.”
oh and Pray For Victorino’s Hand.
peace.
oh and Pray For Victorino’s Hand.
Most important thing of the night to remember.
The silver lining of AJ’s outing?
any truth to this Mike Tirico quote from MNF?
“This, we have to say it, remember this is just a football game, no matter who wins or loses. An unspeakable tragedy, confirmed to us by Joe Buck in Philadelphia: Shane Victorino, in the early innings of Game 5 of the World Series of baseball, the most gritty, perhaps, of all The Phillies, plunked on the hand, grimaced on swing, half hearted catch … though … continued to play.”
I still feel great about this team for the simple fact that we refused to die in back-to-back games and the Phillies know it.
Yet no one will ever say the Yankees have “heart.” Granted, I think it’s a stupid thing to talk about ’cause it’s not like any team ever wants to lose.
True but they could’ve gone and tried to swing for the fences and they didnt…they stayed calm. I also love the fact that Philly doesnt have a closer anymore.
Madson really should have been their closer, but he shat the bed each time he was given the opportunity. Believe me, I bought into the Fangraphs assessments of his stuff and picked him on my fantasy team each time. For whatever reason, he couldn’t handle the mental aspect of THE NINTH INNING and his abilities didn’t translate.
Also, with three good pitches, you could make the case that he should be a mid-rotation starter.
I think he’s a failed starter, but what do I know, I’m just an 800 lb. gorilla in the room.
/AXA Equitable’d
Well on a positive note the last time a pitcher pitched Game 6 of the WS in NY on 3 days rest he pitched a CG shutout.
If Pettitte can give the Yankees 6 innings with no more than 4 runs allowed that should be more than enough to win the game.
It’s clever, it is.
But it made me hate you a little bit for a hot sec, ya know?
Speaking of Paulie…
http://www.sbnation.com/users/Paul%20O‘Neill
agh fudge
http://www.sbnation.com/users/Paul%20O‘Neill
Sorry if i am late in saying this but i hope Pettitte beans Utley in the first innings. Revenge for A-Rod
Lets get a big lead first.
Just knock him out of the game and they will have no good and hot hitters at all
Their ace beat us at home. Thats fine. But give credit to the heart of this team that never quits. Down 6 in the 8th they bring the tying run to the plate. That shows something.
It almost seems like we got the momentum. Just need the bats to support Andy early and often. Give him a lead. Let him throw strikes. Let him pitch his game.
I hope his arm is strong enough to keep that cutter away from the middle of the plate. I have no doubt the Yankee runs will be there, but can Pettite keep the game from getting out of hand?
And you know at least a few Philly fans literally shit their pants in the 9th. That’s help eases my pain.
Is this actual Lanny? Can this be confirmed by one of the RAB admins? I’m in shock.
Not for nothing, but you know people are overreacting when Lanny is the voice of reason.
No offense, man.
Lanny is definitely born again hard. Hell, I may even allow him to serve as a rifleman in my beloved corps.
+27 for a reference to the greatest director of all-time in a blog dedicated to the greatest team of all-time.
Synergy, baby.
Five dollars is all my mom allows me to spend.
If Lanny believes, EVERYBODY ELSE BETTER FUCKIN BELIEVE!!!
+27 Lanny
+27 Lannys?
+27 to Lanny
One things for sure, Teix is going to have to get better against the changeups because he’s going to see alot of those from “Petey” on Wed.
Wow, on Yahoo, Burnett is being referred to as the Yankee’s ace. Sensationalize much?
To quote the subheader on the front page of Yahoo:
“Yankees ace A.J. Burnett turns in the worst World Series start since 2002 as the Phillies force a Game 6. “
…Phillies barely force a Game 6.
AJ is not a bum, far from it. But we can all agree he is erratic even on full-rest. So, with that in mind—and having already pitched a stellar game in the WS, making it a bit unlikely to do it back-to-back—why would he be effective on 3 days rest? Because he did it a few years ago but not since? Not good enough a reason.
With the Yankees up 3-1 in the Series, tonight I was for Gaudin starting and then have the bullpen get some work. No! He’ll get lit up! Can’t count on Gaudin! Well, that’s what happened anyway, except it was AJ who couldn’t get out of the third inning, and consequently both Pettite—who hasn’t been confirmed for Game 6—and CC, if needed, will both pitch on 3 days rest, instead of a rested Burnett and Pettite.
Since the decision to pitch AJ tonight was dumbfounding—with the Yankees lineup resembling more the Tigers than the Bombers due to the practically non-existent hitting of the bottom 5 hitters, AJ had to be lights-out dominant—I was hoping Joe G had something up his sleeve. I mean, not one analyst, announcer, former player, sports talk show host or fan I came across agreed w/Joe’s decision—they predicted tonight’s sorry outcome and the subsequent 3 day-rest situation—so maybe Joe knew something no one else did.
Um, nope.
Agreed, and I have yet to hear a strong defense of this decision yet. In fact, outside of this website, I have not heard anyone express support for Girardi’s decision after the Yanks went up 3-1.
In fact, outside of this website, I have not heard anyone express support for Girardi’s decision after the Yanks went up 3-1.
Outside of this website, the overwhelming majority of people I see who talk about baseball are not smart and espouse bad strategic decisions and adhere to false narratives like they’re going out of style.
Haha, well, me too, but even the reasonable people I know thought this was a bad idea after a Game 4 victory.
…did you not read any of the comments on this thread above?
Outside of this website, the overwhelming majority of people I see who talk about baseball are not smart and espouse bad strategic decisions and adhere to false narratives like they’re going out of style.
Yeah. And doesn’t it suck when they’re right?
You go to Burnett because even on short rest, he’s better than Gaudin and less likely to give up a stinker. Just because he did that tonight doesn’t make Gaudin the better option. Chad Gaudin hasn’t started a game since September 28. He has pitched one inning since then. How sharp was he really going to be? The chances of Burnett going out there and pitching great are much greater than the chances of Gaudin going out there and pitching great. Gaudin is also more likely to have an outing like Burnett did tonight than Burnett is. Give me A.J. in that spot every single time.
When the Yankees go up 3-1, I think your argument weakens, because in the case of failure from either Gaudin or Burnett in Game 5, you have superior pitching in Games 6 and 7 if you used Gaudin in Game 5 than Burnett. I’m sorry, this argument just isn’t reasonable to me once the Yankees have a 3-1 lead in the series.
You still have superior pitching in games 6 and 7…
Burnett, Pettitte, and CC on 3 days rest >>>>>>> Gaudin on 4 days rest.
The point is having superior pitching available for every game.
Gaudin on 4 days (or a month and a half) rest + Pettite and Burnett on normal rest >>>>>> Burnett, Pettite, + CC on 3 days rest when you only need one game to win.
No. Gaudin is not a better choice than any of that. At all. He hasn’t started since September 28th. What could you reasonably expect against him. That ~.820 career OPS vs. LHB also isn’t what you’d want in a small park against a lefty-heavy lineup.
So including Gaudin as a starter in this series, period, is what you object to? I don’t see the problem in hoping you get 1-3 decent innings out of Gaudin, 1-3 out of Aceves, and see where you are at from there, with a strong lead in the series.
You know, when someone up top said, jokingly I believe, “Start Aceves!” the thought of a tandem start between Ace/Gaudin jumped into my head. That actually may have worked. Maybe.
But, generally, yes, I object to Gaudin starting in this series.
Once again, Chad Gaudin, career:
vs RHB – .249/.318/.409 (.728)
vs LHB – .293/.389/.433 (.822)
Utley/Howard/Ibanez would have eaten him alive.
Besides, it’s bad managing to concede games. There’s no such thing as a strategic retreat in baseball.
Heh, imagine with Gaudin in there? Utley would’ve broke RJ’s record tonight.
Sorry, but if Gaudin pitches today we lose, then AJ throws up his shitty performance against Pedro and we lose, then we down to game 7 with Pettitte pitching. If you think the 3 days rest had anything to do with AJ’s performances, your probably wrong. the only concern is Pettitte on short rest, since he’s getting up there in age. No point in second guessing. Please let them take it with Andy pitching, that would be great. Plus AJ can come out of the pen to help in the next 2 games. and it would be good Aj’s turn to show up too =). Remember all the panic after the ALCS went to 6 games. We will take this at home. Hope and believe!!!
When the Yankees go up 3-1, I think your argument weakens, because in the case of failure from either Gaudin or Burnett in Game 5, you have superior pitching in Games 6 and 7 if you used Gaudin in Game 5 than Burnett.
Why should you be planning for a loss? It’s the World Series, not a low leverage game in mid-September. When you have the chance to close out the series, you go with the best guy possible, and that was Burnett on three days rest.
I’m sorry, this argument just isn’t reasonable to me once the Yankees have a 3-1 lead in the series.
Sure, because you’re willing to concede a game. I’d say that the Yankees didn’t want to do that. Why should and would they? You don’t plan for losses in the World Series.
You are operating on the assumption that every game is a must win in the World Series. Once you have a 3-1 lead, and the series is going back to your house, where you have lost but one game in the entire postseason to date, I think it is OK to allow that you may lose a game in order to better your position in the series overall. It isn’t conceding, since you run out your best lineup and everyone pitches and hits to win. You still try to produce runs and coax one out of your bullpen. However, you can rest assured that even if you lose the game, you have a much greater situation in front of you than if you gambled and used only 3 starters in a 7-game series.
You are operating on the assumption that every game is a must win in the World Series.
I wouldn’t say that. I’m just saying that when you have the chance to close out the series, you do it. Freaky shit happens in small sample sizes and short series. Win when you can.
Once you have a 3-1 lead, and the series is going back to your house, where you have lost but one game in the entire postseason to date, I think it is OK to allow that you may lose a game in order to better your position in the series overall.
Thinking you might lose may be part of the game but that doesn’t mean you should rest on your laurels, so to speak, and not put the best team out on the field (the best team was not on the field for the whole game tonight, but I don’t think it had to do with the starting pitcher).
We are finally getting somewhere! OK, I see what you are saying now. In my opinion, when either of your options are unpalatable for the game at hand, you choose the option that is likely to lead to long-term success rather than the option that gives you a marginally better chance in the game at hand, but sacrifices your long-term chances in the long run.
I see what you’re getting at, too. However, I agree with what Doug said below about the view of wins/losses.
You have to play games one at a time; going into a playoff series with a macro view of wins and losses is unrealistic.
If you want any chance of winning with Gaudin, then you will have to burn your bullpen once he’s done after 5 IP.
That argument in itself is a macro-view of the series. Why care about burning your bullpen if you are taking a every-game-is-a-must-win position?
Because putting Burnett out there is means that there is less of a chance of needing to burn the ‘pen.
Because pitching Gaudin gives us an extremely low chance to win against Cliff Lee. No one knew that we were to score 5 runs off Lee, which by the way is 1 run less than what they scored of AJ, therefore you have to take into consideration the performance by Gaudin and its affect on the next games, since your basically conceding the game by pitching Gaudin.
Playing one game at a time also means putting yourself in the best position to win each game. Sustainable bullpen management is a lower order of “macro view” managing than conceding losses for a more advantageous situation in the future that is not guaranteed.
If Girardi pitched Mo 2 innings every game, then he would no longer be able to put the Yankees in the best possible position to win each game. He would be harming the team’s chances for Game 3 or 4.
Matty- I agree with you on that point, but again, it is taking the macro-view of the series to consider the potential detriment to the bullpen, which is what I was countering.
Bklyn- You can check out my other comments in this block to see a better developed argument, but in summary: I don’t think it’s conceding a game to have a Gaudin/bullpen game and it’s important to consider the potential alternatives in case of a loss with either Burnett or Gaudin (since neither option is palatable, I think we can agree on that).
Agreed, and I have yet to hear a strong defense of this decision yet. In fact, outside of this website, I have not heard anyone express support for Girardi’s decision after the Yanks went up 3-1.
“Because A.J. Burnett/3 and Andy Pettitte/3 are better than Chad Gaudin/32 and A.J. Burnett/5. And because you don’t get cute in the World Series.”
– Quoted from Joe Sheehan, Baseball Prosectus
ALSO: “Joe Girardi has made a lot of small mistakes in the playoffs, but he got one thing right that dwarfed all of those – the decision to use a three man rotation has given the Yankees a huge advantage.”
– Dave Cameron at Fangraphs.
Does Sheehan provide statistical evidence to back that up? I am serious, that would give this argument some weight. Otherwise, I just straight up disagree with both authors, especially because he does not factor Pettite/5 vs. CC/3 (twice in one series!) into his equation.
Do you also demand that the various voices who have said that Gaudin should start provide statistical evidence as well to back up their positions?
No, because in that case (which is my own), it can logically be deduced without statistics. When faced with two poor options for a Game 5 starter, choose the one that gives you a much better chance for a win in Games 6/7, rather than the one that gives you a marginally better chance in Game 5. You can even back that up somewhat with Burnett’s home and away stats, plus we all have seen this postseason how much better he has been at Yankee than away. Thus, I’d be more likely to be swayed if I saw some stats.
No, because in that case (which is my own), it can logically be deduced without statistics
No, it can’t. You’re demanding that the position you don’t support be supported by statistical research, but you’re fine accepting the position that you do support as unsubstantiated anecdote.
That’s disingenuous.
I am unconvinced that you can deduce that your take is better than mine without statistical evidence. Here: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=4153. Check out the home/away splits on Burnett alone, and also factor in the 3 days rest for Pettite + inferior lineup for a second in Game 5.
The crux of it, and why some of us don’t like it, is because you’re saying that Gaudin made sense because of perceived *by you* position advantages in games 6 & 7.
That means you throw Gaudin to lose.
The Yankees don’t do anything to lose. At all. Ever.
Period.
“The Yankees don’t do anything to lose. At all. Ever.” Please reveal yourself, George Steinbrenner!
If I was, I probably wouldn’t be posting here. Thanks though.
Easy boss, we’re on the same team! I was joking around.