Dec
15

Open Thread: Another stat

By

If you head to FanGraphs and click on an individual player page, you might notice a new stat under the Advanced section, where wOBA once resided. Fret not: wOBA is still there, just a column to the left. Occupying the far right slot is wRC+, which FanGraphs proprietor David Appelman explains here. It’s essentially a weighted Runs Created stat, but scaled to the league like OPS+.

The idea actually came from Tom Tango, who criticized the composition of OPS+. The idea behind OPS+ is to weigh on base and slugging averages on a scale where 100 is the league average. The stat takes into consideration park effects, which is nice, but it ignores stolen bases and, more importantly, it doesn’t give OBP enough credence. It weighs OPB to SLG 1.2 to 1. Tango, among others, notes that it should be more like 1.7 or 1.8 to 1.

So, in sum, the differences between wRC+ and OPS+:

1) wRC+ puts a more realistic weight on OBP
2) wRC+ includes stolen bases

Some will bemoan the introduction of a new stat. I never understood why. The point of new stats is to more accurately portray a player’s contribution. Sometimes you can find that in old stats. But, especially for more dynamic players, a stat like wRC+ can be a huge help. In this specific case, it credits players who steal bases and get on base, whereas OPS+ favors power hitters. In other words, I think it’s a bit more balanced take.

You can discuss this, or any other topic you choose in tonight’s open thread. But I really am interested in the reaction to another stat.

Categories : Open Thread
  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

    This will end badly.

    • Evil Empire

      Only if you’re an uberhomo stat-nerd!

  • Luke

    There were some comments either here or somewhere else today about how Matt Holliday and Carl Crawford compare. Using OPS+ and their triple slash lines, it seemed as if Holliday was the far superior player. Wonder who this new stat would effect the comparison?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

      Carl Crawford 2009 wRC+: 126
      Matt Holliday 2009 wRC+: 143

  • Evil Empire

    I was wondering what that stat was. Thanks for the cliff notes explanation, that’s good enough for me.

    I’m not smart enough to fully absorb the precise meaning of complex stats like wRC+ or wOBA, but not stupid enough to dismiss them. I just read up on WAR a few weeks ago and finally “got it”.

    • Abe

      Big League Stew currently has a very good series where each week of the offseason they will have statistician Alex Remington explain a new sabermetric. They are really great reads and make sense to the casual fan. So far he has gone through BABIP, OPS+, FIP and wOBA.

      http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/bl.....ng-content

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        Nice find. Thanks for the linkup, Abe.

    • lebigyank

      i echo this

      • lebigyank

        i gotta add that its been long lurking in riverave that pushed my curiosity. i used to be happy with avg. and hrs and plain vanilla stuff like that.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

    From the FanGraphs link:

    You can think of this stat as a wOBA based version of OPS+. It’s park and league adjusted and it’s on a very similar scale as OPS+. The difference is that it uses wRC, which is based on wOBA.

    For those of you not familiar with the scale, 100 is average. Anything higher is above average and anything below 100 is below average.

    I approve. You know what’s necessary now?

    A defensive metric that’s also scaled to a 100 average baseline like OPS to supplant the plus-minus system of UZR. So that we can have two simple numbers to rapidly express how much above or below average a player is both offensively and defensively.

    wRP: weighted Runs Prevented. Add together a player’s wRC and wRP and you’ve got a player’s total production worth, tied to a 200 baseline.

    • Evil Empire

      I like.

      Someone get Dave Cameron on the line, NOW!

    • Joe B.

      I couldn’t decide whether to sarcastically reply regarding how much sense that makes, or how that new stat might be the one to break baseball permanently. I am instead explaining my thought processes in an unnecessarily wordy reply.

      In summary, +1.

      • Evil Empire

        I am now reading your unnecessarily wordy reply and commenting that I found your stream-of-consciousness response to be somewhat humorous.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        I will now commence pimping the need to create wRP as ceaselessly and thoroughly as I pimped Mike Cameron.

        I look forward to annoying Sal/Bo/Grant/Lanny to the point of boiling nausea.

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

      It’s harder than it seems. The speed and trajectory of the batted ball can heavily influence whether it’s reachable or not, yet Range-based models don’t take this into account.

      For instance, if Kei Igawa pitched every day for the Yanks, the team UZR would plummet. Not because they aren’t any good, but because every ball is scorched so hard they don’t have much of a chance to field it.

      Conversely, if Roy Halladay (who induces lots of weak contact) pitched every day, we’d have the highest UZR in history.

      Hate to say it, but you have to watch the games. Numbers are great to cross-check what your eyes are telling you, and great for eliminating bias. But there is still an important role for scouting and film work in Baseball.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        UZR starts off by looking at the probability that a ball in play will make an out, based on the type of batted ball it is(ground ball, fly ball, line drive, etc.), the zone that ball was hit to, and how hard it was hit. UZR then adjusts for everything under the sun, including:
        1. Park Factors
        2. Batter Handedness
        3. The pitcher’s groundball-to-flyball ratio
        4. Base/Out Situation
        This way, UZR is able to capture almost everything that could impact a fielder’s chances of catching a ball—his positioning, how well hit the ball is, how much ground the fielder has to cover, etc. UZR is generally considered to be the gold standard of fielder ratings, and most sabermetrically-advanced teams, like the A’s or Red Sox, use similar systems to internally judge fielders.

        http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....valuators/

        The things you want it to do? It already does those things. UZR even includes double plays and outfielder arms now.

        • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

          Sorry, but you’d need about another 6 sub-categories on those batted balls to really have meaning, and even that may not be enough. Ground ball, fly ball and line drive are too broad as categories.

          I’m not dismissing it, its a start but it just isn’t a finished product yet.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Ground ball, fly ball and line drive are too broad as categories.

            Did you read what I just wrote? It’s not just those three broad categories. Speed, trajectory, positioning, pitcher/batter factors, park factors, all that shit is in there. All those other subcategories you claim to want are already in there.

            • A.D.

              Exactly they account for the fact that a liner in the gap isn’t going to be catchable, and thus not fielding it isn’t going to hurt a player’s UZR

  • nathan

    I just checked in at the really good metsblog.com and the fans are freaking out.. though i lke the Mets being down.. some of the fans are so desperate that they are proposing trades that are beyond desperate

    Buehrle for Maine, Niese and others

    Agonzales for FCore(Fernando Martinez), Pelfrey, C- prospect (arent they all C-)

    they want to sign Wang and Sheets as their no 2 and 3.

    they want to trade Castillo and sign Hudson to a cheaper deal.

    they want to know how can Reyes be part of Halladay deal.. that question shud be asked by BlueJays fans..

    The Yanks can use a spare OF, bench guy and one reclamation SP + one Bullpen arm… but check out the needs of the Mets .. their fans are really screwed…

    C,1B, rotation spots 3-5, 2+ bullpen arms, LF. And if all that works out… a competent GM… quite a wishlist

    • Brian Cashman is Watching

      I’ll be honest, I don’t understand the hatred towards Mets fans. I know Met fans grew out of hatred toward the Yankees after the Dodgers and Giants left, but why do Yankee fans care? I don’t particular care about the Mets, but if they are in the World Series, wouldn’t you want the World Series trophy to remain in New York?

      • http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

        I find some to be annoying since they always complain about the Yanks and such.

        • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

          You find some? I can’t seem to find them anywhere.

          (True story) I see nothing but Yankee hats and Yankee gear on the streets of Manhattan. A few weeks back, just after the WS victory, I saw a guy wearing a Mets cap. I was looking to strike up a conversation, see how Mets fans are feeling these days. So I said to him “You’re a Mets fan?” and he said “No, it’s not my hat.”

          • http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

            There’s a lot here in Bergen County, NJ.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              Note to self: continue avoiding Bergen County, NJ

              • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

                IETC

          • JMK The Overshare

            Hah. I do that all the time. Occasionally, I stay at a friend’s around Red Hook and there are a good amount of Mets fans. They are beyond depressed. Half respond, “I don’t even care what they do at this point. I hope the Wilpons sell. Until then, whatever.”

            Sad.

            • Mike Pop

              Poughkeepsie here!

            • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

              Mets Fans wear the fact that their team doesn’t do things the Yankee way like a badge of honor.

              -Many are anti-statistical analysis, Omar describes himself as being ‘not a stat guy’.

              -They disregard the draft process, insist on paying slot when better talent is available, and then wonder why they never have the chips to make deals.

              -They actually had a guy employed who thought taking off your shirt and challenging a room full minor league players was the way to get them to perform. Not scouting, not coaching, threatening them.
              -Their GM, the spokesperson of their franchise, is horrendous with the English language. His press conferences make you wince every time he speaks.

              Results speak for themselves, they’re a horribly run franchise from the top down.

      • nathan

        unless they are facing the RedSox in the world series… i cant root for the Mets… i dont hate them… i actually feel sorry for them.. but not enuf to root for them in a WS… and i think partly its WFAN and its obnoxious hosts…

      • HC

        I hate the Mets more than anything- always have, always will. My first game was a Mitts game in 1985 and I spotted a fugazzi right away. Now Mets fans just whine and whine while their team is consistently the highest payer (or occasionally 2nd) in the NL, which is all that matters to them. The Dodgers were a bunch of losers who abandoned NYC and The Mutts are even bigger losers for trying to a team that still exists (in LA). I won’t be happy until they no longer exist or become NY’s version of the LA Clippers.

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

      I hear Metsblog exposed the “They asked for Jose Reyes” damage control bullshit for what it was. They cross checked and the Jays said his name never came up.

      Also, people close to the Mets kept pushing the idea that “Halladay wants a 120 mil extension” and as we all saw today, he signed for half that amount.

      They never learn. If you don’t want someone, just say so. But when you keep getting caught in these lies, you get a neurotic, irrational fan base.

      • nathan

        they didnt expose nothing… Omar was quoted saying that.. so if anything Mike Francesa and Craig Carton (dumbass) were the liars…

        • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

          OK, then either Evan Roberts wasn’t very clear or I misunderstood him. In any case, it’s still pretty clear the Mets had no intention of pursuing Halladay, for whatever reason. Maybe they were told he didn’t want to come here. But again, just say so.

          • nathan

            apparently there was a festive meeting today.. Omar acknowledged they spoke with Jays.. but Jays never asked for Reyes (metsblog.com has the quote and the link)

            i think the current injured Reyes who is not earning peanuts anymore is not what wud make sense for Jays.. he is injured and costly.. he is with the right team

  • TheZack

    How much does it weight SB?

  • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

    I’m surprised we haven’t heard much regarding Chap-man. All we got out of the workout today were a radar reading ad the teams that were there.

    • http://fmylife.com JobaJr

      Maybe they know something we don’t?

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

      Jeff Passan has a piece up, says scouts were raving about him.

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist
        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Source: the internet

          /barry’d

        • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

          Nice read.

    • http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

      Well the Red Sox made an offer yesterday FWIW.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        They made an offer yesterday? That’s not what their own propaganda wing reports:

        According to sources, Boston is the only team known to have made an offer for Chapman, for $15.5 million. But that offer was made a few weeks ago to his former agent, Edwin Mejia.

        http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4745486

        • http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

          Huh that’s weird. I guess I deserve that for watching ESPNews…

  • http://dontbringinthelefty.blogspot.com Lucas A.

    That’s a really great metric. A leaderboard for it would be nice.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

      http://www.fangraphs.com/caree.....8;min=1000

      That’s career. They’re implementing season leaderboards soon.

      • http://dontbringinthelefty.blogspot.com Lucas A.

        Thanks! Didn’t notice the career leaderboard before.

      • Joe B.

        You know, just after a quick glance that list looks pretty accurate. Also strikes me just how prolific a hitter Edgar Martinez was, yet again.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Ruth: +204
        Williams: +196

        If Williams hadn’t missed parts of his prime to WWII and Korea, would he be the greatest player of all time?

        Hmmmmmm….

        (scratches chin)

        • Dwnflfan

          You’d have to ignore Ruth’s contributions on the mound to think so.

          • Dwnflfan

            Oh, and defense as well.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              You’ve got an argument regarding Ruth’s pitching. It keeps him heads and shoulders above Williams.

              Defensively, though, meh. Neither of them were great shakes in the outfield.

              • Dwnflfan

                Williams was notoriously awful on defense whereas Ruth was pretty solid when he was younger. Even at his worst and fattest he was probably better than Williams ever was. Williams certainly didn’t have Ruth’s arm.

              • Mike Pop

                Does anyone else find it weird that Ruth was that good even though he pretty much walked as many as he struck out?

                • Dwnflfan

                  His walk #’s were inflated considerably his last few seasons with the Sox. By that time he was a part time pitcher but he was never a control pitcher. The K #’s must be taken in context with the time. K’ing in those days was much rarer due to the strategies of the game.

                • Mike Pop

                  Oooh. I figured it had to do with the time period in a way. Just weird looking at it now, ya know.

                  Thanks for the insight.

              • toad

                Dwnflfan is right, I think. At least what I read suggests that Ruth was a decent outfielder with a good arm.

                Another thing to take into account, wrt Ruth’s pitching, is that during his years as a pitcher he was only a part-time outfielder. Go back and figure what his batting numbers would have looked like otherwise.

                To repeat what I’ve said elsewhere, Ruth was a freak of nature, not comparable to ordinary mortals, even Williams, who was certainly the greatest hitter not named Ruth ever.

        • Evil Empire

          Does wRC+ count pitching performance?

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            I’d imagine not. Touché.

            • Evil Empire

              The Babe. Ain’t no way some fucking frozen headed Red Sox sucka gonna top his game.

        • HC

          How many HR’s did Joe D lose in the 450 ft (?) left CF of Old Yankee Stadium?

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        t4.) Bonds, 177
        t4.) Cobb, 177
        t4.) Mantle, 177

        If Ty Cobb would have known that Bonds and Mantle would tie him, he’d have either

        A) stabbed more guys in order to get to 178 or better, or
        B) invented a time machine to go into the future and stab Bonds and Mantle to keep them at 176 or worse

        • Mike Pop

          Looking at Bonds B-Ref page, you just look at it and say ‘wow’.

          • Mike Pop

            2001 – 2004

            His OBP’s were .515, .582, .529, .609.

            Hahah. Unbelievable.

            • JGS

              his OBP for this entire decade was .517

      • Evil Empire

        Pujols is in the top 10. Sure, makes sense. I can believe that, no problemo.

        And yet, A-Rod is behind guys like Mark McGwire and Frank Thomas!? Not to mention whoever the fuck Gavvy Gravath was. This confuses me.

        • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

          Yeah that’s what I was thinking too.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Not to mention whoever the fuck Gavvy Gravath was. This confuses me.

          FACT: The decades of the 1880′s and 1890′s did exist. They were not just bullshit made up pages in your history textbook created to fulfill mafia-related union “make-work” jobs in the New Jersey printing industry.

          • Evil Empire

            Oh I know I know. I’ll give the mad old school players their due. Honus Wagner is the best shortstop whoever played the game, etc etc.

            This was more a comment regarding how surprised I am A-Rod ranks beneath a good amount of people, not so much me trying to disrespect deadball era players.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          And yet, A-Rod is behind guys like Mark McGwire and Frank Thomas!?

          McGwire and Thomas are both better hitters than ARod.

          The reason ARod is one of the greatest players ever is that he can give you McGwire or Thomas level production from SS or 3B.

  • JMK The Overshare

    Go back to your “garden apartments,” nerds!

  • Mike Pop

    Last time I checked, the game was played on the field with bats and balls.

    /hater’d

  • JMK The Overshare

    What’s that other newfangled saber-nerd metric? “Wins” and “Losses,” right? I think that’s some silly shit right there. I see the game with my own two eyes! Hah!

    /Semi-theoretical Joe Morgan

    • Evil Empire

      Make-believe sarcastic Joe Morgan, you’re my only friend!

  • http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

    Man I should really move from my mother’s basement instead of looking up these stats that serve no purpose when eyes and faulty memory can do the same.

  • Salty Buggah

    Still no stat to measure grit and intangibles so all other stats ate pretty much useless.

  • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

    Poor Tiger…

    • Mike Pop

      What’s the latest?

      • Salty Buggah

        I stopped caring but while waiting in line at the store, I saw all the magazines had his pic on the cover and apparently, he’s suicidal.

    • Salty Buggah

      It’s getting to the point where Im feeling sorry for him. 16 straight days on the cover of NYPost.

      • JMK The Overshare

        Nobody reads that toilet paper anyway.

        • HC

          Are you kidding? NY Post is the best Entertainment value going.

    • Alan

      I feel bad for Tiger, leave the poor guy alone. Mass Media has been all about knocking sports stars/celebrities down a peg or two when given the opportunity. Nobody is asking him to be a saint, he’s just a phenomenal athlete. Where’s the press coverage when John Q. cheats on his wife?

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        If I was Tiger’s adviser, here’s what I’d tell him to do:

        Call a press conference. Admit everything. I cheated on my wife constantly, I was a jerk and an asshole, I’ve ruined my marriage and pushed my kids away from me through my selfish and stupid actions, and my life is in shambles. I’m a broken man. I’ve broken my vow to Elin, and I can never get her trust back. All I can do is be the best father to our children and hope she can forgive me one day, even though I don’t deserve it.

        This is the most embarrassing moment of my life.

        I’m going to do the only thing I can do, the only thing that has ever worked for me: I’m rededicating my life to golf. I’m eliminating all other distractions. No more going out, no more women, no more endorsements. I thank all my corporate partners who have stayed with me and I need to earn back their trust as well, so I won’t be doing any commercials or endorsements indefinitely as well until I’ve reestablished my life.

        I won’t be back until The Masters in April. I’ll show up to every event, play my hardest, not answer questions, and humble myself. That, and my kids, will be my entire life.

        You may now ask any questions of me I haven’t yet answered. After this conference, I won’t ever address any of this again. Nothing but golf.

        Go.

        • Salty Buggah

          A-Rod-esque with a bit of the famous Tebow “speech”

        • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

          Or…exploit the situation by opening up Crazy Whores stripper bars EVERYWHERE and nailing all cocktail waitresses while giving your apology to the media.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Tiger: “Okay, here’s the truth: I love pussy. It’s awesome. I’m gonna keep fucking everything that moves. Me and Chipper Jones did a shitload of ex and gangbanged like ten skanky Hooters waitresses just last weekend. I told Elin I was out shopping for a marriage counselor. It was awesome. I have more diseases than Ron Mexico, and I don’t use condoms. Is Rick Reilly here in the crowd today? No? Well, when you see him, tell him I boned his daughter. In the ass.

            She cried, at first.

            You people can either like it or hate it, I don’t really care. I’m still gonna win the Masters by 10 strokes next April. Tell Jesper Parnevik to shut the fuck up and go buy a hat that fits properly.

            Man, it feels great to get all this shit off my chest.

            In summation, suck it, bitches. I’m out. If anyone needs me, hit me on the Escalade phone, I’ll be with Barry Bonds, driving around the UC Santa Barbara campus looking for tight young 19 year old poon. Barry’s just like me, he likes ‘em young, fresh and green.

            Tiger OUT!!!”

            … aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, SCENE!

            • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

              I love it.

              • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

                It’s like, “When Keepin’ It Real Goes…Right!”

            • HC

              Tiger would be my favorite athlete ever if he gave that speech verbatim!

            • Alan

              Excellent, excellent posts. I’m glad I read these.

              Tiger out.

        • Salty Buggah

          Also, he dumps Elin and gets K-Hud to bring his reputation back A-Rod style.

          (Seriously though, if Kate can fix Tiger’s image, she literally will be considered a God after supposedly “fixing” A-Rod’s)

        • thurdonpaul

          excellent post, i agree 100%

        • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=nf Andy in Sunny Daytona

          Or……get a divorce and come close to death from exhaustion after being involved in a 23-girl orgy that lasts 8 days and nights.

  • Salty Buggah

    I can’t believe some Sox fans are pissed about signing Cammy

    • Mike Pop

      It’s the .240 average.

      • http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

        It’s the strikeouts too.

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

      You could argue he’s a step down from Bay.

      You’d be wrong, but you could argue it all you want.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Is that a challenge??? YOU FUCKING CHALLENGING ME???

        Sincerely,
        SalBoGrantLanny

        • scooter

          You talkin to me?
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e9CkhBb18E

          SalBoGrantLanny = Travis Bickle?

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Good, but not enough unnecessary question marks.

            Keep working at it.

    • http://threequarters.cementhorizon.com/archives/kool%20aid%20man.bmp The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      Nobody will read this since I’m so late to the party… But Cameron on the Sox isn’t as good a fit as Cameron on the Yanks would have been. I’m not saying those fans are right to be upset with the Sox for signing Cameron, but I understand Sox fans who are looking for more of an offensive boost than Cameron will probably provide them. That lineup isn’t as good as the Yankees’ lineup, they need the offense more than the Yankees do.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski
  • Andrew S.

    Sometimes I wonder if the excessive and complex stats in baseball turns average fans away…

    football is yards. catches. TDs. done.

    i mean there’s QB rating and YAC and yards per carry… but it’s still very basic.

    basketball is pts. FG%. reb. steals. assists.

    i think its makes baseball so much BETTER because it’s so complex, but i wonder if your average joe feels differently?

    • http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

      Well the average joe still lives on through RBI’s, HR’s, AVG and SOMETIMES OBP.

      They’re not going to get turned off by the sport even with all of these stats because unless he cares about them he won’t really find them.

      • Andrew S.

        Suppose that is valid. They don’t mention anything too complicated during the broadcast usually… thats more for the analysts on baseball tonight or what have you.

        • http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

          Heh even some of the “analysts” on BBTN don’t really say anything complicated.

          • Mike Pop

            They don’t really say anything that makes sense.

            • http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

              Yup, pretty much.

              • Andrew S.

                What about Jon Kruk?! he is the definition of credible and intelligent.

                *note need for sarcasm emoticon.

      • Mike Pop

        Joe the Plumber still refuses to acknowledge OBP and SLG. [sigh]

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Plus, there’s plenty of sabermetricians in basketball and football doing the same thing. Basketball stats like plus/minus, TrueShooting percentage, PER ratings, etc. and football stats like DVOA and catch/targeted percentages, etc.

        • Steve H

          Including the Houston Rockets GM.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Bingo. Speaking of which:

            Larry Hughes, 2009-10 PER: 15.32
            Tracy McGrady, 2008-09 PER: 16.39

            Larry Hughes can totally replicate Tracy McGrady’s game, Daryl. So, if you want to get rid of him because the team hates him because of the bullshit he pulled, we can take him off your hands and give you Hughes and Eddy Curry.

            Think about it.

  • Salty Buggah

    I am going to laugh when Theo puts Cameron in center and Tacoby in LF and Red Sox Nation will blow up.

    “ZOMG HE PUT A 50 YEAR OLD GUY IN CENTER and A YOUNG GOLD GLOVE CALIBER GUY IN LF!!!!”

    • Salty Buggah

      “ZOMG THEO PUT A BLACK GUY IN CENTER!”

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        My mother was shocked that the Sox signed a black guy.

        • Salty Buggah

          I kinda was too

          • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=nf Andy in Sunny Daytona

            When was the last time that happened? Seriously. I can’t think of a single African-American they signed to a free agent contract before him.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              Not counting Joey Gathright (since he’s Joey Gathright), um…

              Ellis Burks?

              I’d say Troy O’Leary, but I’m pretty sure they thought he was white and then got pissed when he showed up for Spring Training. It makes sense.

              • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=nf Andy in Sunny Daytona

                Let me put it another way. When was the last time an African-American chose to play for them?

                Ellis Burks was drafted and O’Leary was picked off waivers.

                • JGS

                  carl everett?

                • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=nf Andy in Sunny Daytona

                  Traded to them.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  (racks brain)

                  http://www.instantcrickets.com

                  No, there’s OH SHIT, WAIT, I GOT ONE!!!!

                  Pokey Reese. He was traded to the Sox, then left in free agency (like dozens and dozens of Sox before and after him), but then, after a year in Pittsburgh, he came back for two years.

                  That’s LITERALLY all I’ve got. One. Pokey Reese.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....s_the_rule

                • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=nf Andy in Sunny Daytona

                  He came back for one year. But still, makes you wonder……..and maybe I’m being crazy, but Boston may be a shitty place to play.

                • tim randle

                  tommie tommie tommie…eric…he didnt come BACK to Boston…he LEFT pittsburgh…come on now…

              • Steve H

                You know you can spend the night with Troy O’Leary’s ex-wife for a few hundred bucks.

    • Steve H

      I already went thru this with my Sox fan dad tonight…..

  • CB

    Too often sabermetrics puts the cart before the horse. There’s a very systematic way that new measures should be designed – it’s really not a matter of “statistics.”

    On a really basic level – what is the concept wRC+ is supposed to represent? For example, why is wRC not park adjusted but wRC+ is park adjusted?

    Fangraphs explanation was completely inadequate.

    “You can think of this stat as a wOBA based version of OPS+.”

    What?

    wOBA is not park or league adjusted. wRC+ is. How then is wRC the “wOBA version of OPS+?” If you simply normalized wBOA that wouldn’t that be the wOBA version of OPS+?

    Reading the Fangraphs explanation, it seems that they put this statistic out there because it was easy to implement. Computers and databases are amazing that way.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      For example, why is wRC not park adjusted but wRC+ is park adjusted?

      Because the little + sign is sabermetric naming convention for “adjusted”.

      wOBA is not park or league adjusted. wRC+ is. How then is wRC the “wOBA version of OPS+?”

      Because it’s park and league adjusted AND calibrated to the OPS+ type scale of a 100-baseline.

      If you simply normalized wOBA wouldn’t that be the wOBA version of OPS+?

      Yes. It’s called wRC+.

      I don’t know what you’re complaining about here.

      • CB

        Because the little + sign is sabermetric naming convention for “adjusted”.

        There are a myriad of ways to “adjust.” In general the “+” is used in sabermetrics to denote “normalization” not “adjustment” i.e. controlling variables inside of the model.

        If they’ve simply normalized the statistic then they should explain that. But again, they don’t simply state what the concept being represented is – they refer to another statistic derived from linear weights.

        And if you look at the reference to The Book it’s not simply a normalization. It’s a reconstruction of a new derived stat.

        Here’s Tango’s explanation:

        I am not in favor of wOBA+. I am in favor of wRC+.

        Remember that you can get from wOBA to wRC very easily. So, to get to a “+” stat, you really should go with the stat that makes the most sense. And in that regard, it’s wRC. The scale is appropriate for wRC, not wOBA.

        This is extremely confusing. Why does he not favor wOBA+? No explanation.

        The foundation for valid metrics is a clear, strong conceptual foundations.

        Because it’s park and league adjusted AND calibrated to the OPS+ type scale of a 100-baseline.

        Not true. Look at how the stat is derived. Fangraphs is explaining by analogy but that’s not how the math is actually done.

        Unfortunately, they don’t do rigorous work in scale development.

        Yes. It’s called wRC+.

        No it’s not. See Tango’s explanation above.

        Also, here was an interesting comment in that thread that was never addressed:

        I’m also wondering if to just make things less confusing we could call wRC+, wOBA+. As in your calculation above is the “correct and official way to calculate wOBA+” The real difference in wOBA and wRAA/wRC is that the latter includes a player weighted IBB and of course the scale right?

        Constructing valid metrics is not synonymous to arranging new formulas.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Okay. Thanks, now I see where you’re coming from.

          Valid points.

  • Steve H

    Anyone else seen the new layout on foxsports.com? It’s turrible.

    • Mike Pop

      Agreed. Turned me away from there.

  • Hey ZZ

    So in 20 years we will hear Joe Buck tell us there is some new stat that is in vogue right now called wRC+?

  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    Joe Beningo is crying into a beer right now.

  • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

    Quick question. I want to compare an either/or scenario. One with the Yanks signing Ben Sheets (only) and the other with them signing only Johnny Damon. There are roster implications for both, and I want to see if one is better on paper.

    -The Sheets one has Joba or Hughes in the bullpen and Melky in LF.
    -The Damon one has Joba+Hughes in the rotation and Johnny in LF.

    I’d like to total up their WAR, but I’m quickly running into problems. Hughes hasn’t started much and Joba has relieved on and off since 07. How can I figure their WAR in either role (Starter/Reliever)?

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      I’d rather Joba and Hughes start with J-Dukes as the back up, instead of Sheets.

      • Mike Pop

        Same here.

        In any scenario, I want Joba and Hughes in the rotation.

        One of the things I am looking most forward to this year. Probably the main thing I am looking forward to for 2010.

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

        OK, that’s another debate but I’m really looking for some specific stat help.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Well, basically, you’d have to find two different projections for both of them: one as a starter, one as a reliever, then do the WAR calculations from there.

      • Steve H

        I think Sheets upside is too great to ignore. He would be the #2 starter on the staff. If that means putting Joba/Phil in the pen (temporarily) I’m ok with it. If it was a #4/#5 guy I’d say no way, but when Sheets is healthy, he is a top 10-15 pitcher in baseball.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      -The Sheets one has Joba or Hughes in the bullpen and Melky in LF.
      -The Damon one has Joba+Hughes in the rotation and Johnny in LF.

      Actually:

      -The Sheets one has Joba or Hughes in the bullpen and Melky in LF.
      -The Damon one has Joba+Hughes in the rotation and Johnny in LF at DH, with some games in LF when Posada plays DH.

      Whether we add Sheets (and nothing else) or Damon (and nothing else), Melky is our primary leftfielder.

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

        I’m trying to keep this simple. If you can tell me how to figure Damon’s value for 80 games in LF and 80 Games at DH, I’ll gladly work it in.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          If you split the position adjustments you can do it.

    • A.D.

      You can just take their projected WARs for 2010, as an easy way, though J-Douche may not have one.

      Else full definition:
      http://www.beyondtheboxscore.c.....d-pitchers

      Probably easier to just give some rough estimations.

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

        Yeah, that was my first impression but I wanted to get it more accurate and adjusted for the specific roles. WAR plummets for relievers as compared to starters, since they don’t contribute as much.

  • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

    Ok guys, you’re Brian Fellows Cashman right now. You have $20 million you can spend, not including your IFA budget, which currently has about $3.5 million still left for this year.

    The parameters:

    *Note: These are just 30-second projections. I don’t know how accurate they are, but I figured they were close to ballpark given the information out there.

    *Chapman will sign for $23 million over 5 years. You can backload it if you want, but that’s a 40-man spot.

    *Damon will take a two-year and over. Nothing under $12 million p/y.

    *Sheets will take a one-year, but not under $9.5 million, and of course, it’s heavily incentive-ized (I made it up).

    *Holliday will not be had for under 5/$100 million.

    *Bay will not be had for under 5/$75.

    *None of the remaining DH options will cost you over $5.5 million.

    *DeJesus can be had for Gardner, Adams, Jairo Heredia

    *Escobar will take a minor league deal for less than $1 mil. Noah Lowry and other rehab projects can also be had for under $1 mil.

    *Nick Johnson take a two-year deal but not for under $8.5 million per season.

    *Wang takes a guaranteed major league deal. $4 million

    *Dusch can be had for 2/$4 million per.

    How would you construct the roster if these were the market conditions?

    • Steve H

      Sheets/Delgado/Escobar, and fit Aroldis in.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        I’ll take Delgado and Escobar, but $9.5MM is a lot for Sheets, pre-incentive.

        • Steve H

          It’s a lot, but for only 1 year. I think it’s well worth the risk. If healthy, he’s a $15-20 million pitcher.

          (Curt Schilling was paid $8 million to not throw a pitch in 2008, and the small market Sox survived)

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        Yeah, I like it. You’d be right there in payroll.

        Hmmm…I did Delgado (5.5), DeJesus (4.7), Dusch (4), Escobar (1), Chapman (4), Cyclops Mateo (.8). That’s $20 mil.

        • Steve H

          In that case I don’t think DeJesus is enough of any upgrade over Melky to ignore Sheets for similar money as Douche+DeJesus combined.

          Melky+Sheets>>>>DeJesus+Douche.

        • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=nf Andy in Sunny Daytona

          Delgado – $1 mill
          J-Douche – $1 mill
          Kelvim Escobar – $1 mill
          Dejesus – Pass
          Chapman – 1963 Cadillac for his family in Cuba, it would be the newest model on the island.
          Mateo $8 million
          Twins $8 mill for Miguel Angel Sano

          (I love the prospects.)

    • A.D.

      Damon/DH/J-Douche

      • A.D.

        Whoops meant Escobar instead of J-Douche, else I’d have to get my DH 4 or under

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      A.) Sign Chapman to a 5/20. Your 23M is overshooting it, the only offer at this point is a 5/15.5 from the Sox. No backloading. His 4M salary is counted mainly against the remaining 3.5M IFA budget.
      $0.5M spent, $19.5M remaining.

      B.) Sign Damon to a 2/24. Make him the everyday DH, occasionally playing LF (with Melky to the bench) when Posada/ARod DH’s and Cervelli/Peña plays.
      $12.5M spent, $9.5M remaining.

      C.) Sign Kelvim Escobar and Noah Lowry to minor league deals for a combined 1.5M.
      $14M spent, $6M remaining.

      D.) Wish everyone else on the market well and thank them for their time. Trade Gardner only if a good piece can be had for him; do not bundle him in with Jairo Heredia for David DeJesus.
      Pocket remaining $6M.

      E.) Go pussytubing.

      F.) Win 2010 World Series.

      G.) Repeat step E (liberally).

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        I’d go with this.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        Regarding the overshoot of Chapman, I’m just going on recent projections of it being in the mid-20s (the Yahoo article posted up thread). Obviously, this is all speculative, so I figured I’d put salaries a bit higher than they may end up being. Err…caution…

      • EB

        $12M per for Damon to DH? Not sure about this

      • whizkid

        A)Sign Chapman to 5/20

  • Yankeefan91 Arod Fan

    i hear the card are ready to offer miguel tejada a 3 year deal for 20 million.

    • Steve H

      They are high.

      • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

        Don’t blame that on drugs.

    • DP

      Where did you hear that?

      • Yankeefan91 Arod Fan

        its a rumor in the dominica republic my cuzin whos married to miguel tejada sister was telling me he hears rumors that the cardinals offer 3 years for 20 million,

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          … Hmmm, poor grammar/spelling, no source or link, some cousin married to someone’s sister who heard something…

          (turns bullshit meter all the way up)

          • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=nf Andy in Sunny Daytona

            I don’t know, I believe him. I find him credible.

            • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

              If I owned a Newspaper, I’d publish this report.

              I’m considering buying one to do just that.

              • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

                The way I see it. He’s more credible than “Anonymous Scout.”

              • A.D.

                twitter.com

                Who needs a newspaper

          • Yankeefan91 Arod Fan

            Why would i lie about my cuzin been married to his sister.if hes telling me hes hearing rumors out there its cuz hes hearing rumors about a possible deal.

            • A.D.

              Someone last week “knew” that Cameron told the Brewers he’d come back for 1 year 4M.

              …presumably that isn’t true, else the Brewers should have jumped.

  • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

    Another Chapman piece, this one from ESPN

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4745486

    Impressive list of attendees.

    Among the team representatives who attended were Houston Astros general manager Ed Wade, Washington Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo, Los Angeles Angels scouting director Eddie Bane, Florida Marlins vice president of player development Jim Fleming, Pittsburgh Pirates international scouting director Rene Gayo, and Baltimore Orioles international scouting director John Stockstill, according to sources. The Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees, who are expected to be heavy bidders for Chapman, each had one area scout in attendance.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      For people who say we shouldn’t be giving Chapman good money because he’s so raw:

      Almost years ago, we gave Drew Henson a 6yr/17M deal to buy him away from football.

      We wasted that money, but our decision process was sound. Henson had a world of talent. It takes money to acquire premium prospects. And, it’s a financial cost we can absorb if things don’t pan out.

      Remember, it’s not 15-25M for Chapman all at once, it’s over 5 years. That’s only 3-5M per year. It’s the cost of a Brian Bruney or a Jose Molina.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Ugh.

        “Almost ten years ago, we gave Drew Henson a 6yr/17M deal to buy him away from football.”

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        At what $ amount do you think it’s too high a price? (Just curious.)

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          30M.

          Anything south of there is honestly okay with me.

          I don’t think it remotely takes that much, though.

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

        I’m in the camp that thinks he’s a ways off, but you’re 100% right. The money isn’t a huge issue if it stays around 15-25 mil. At 50-60 mil and there’s pressure to get him to the bigs ASAP, and that could be trouble if he’s not ready.

        Check out this tantalizing quote from Ed Price:

        With a high waist, lean body and long arms, Chapman has a unique look, the person said.

        “Usually guys throw 10 pitches,” he said, “and you say, ‘He reminds me of …’ But there was none of that.”

        http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/1.....n-workout/

      • A.D.

        Or dare I say the cost of Kei Igawa.

  • Zack

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....onals.html

    You know your team suck when a player prefers the Natinals over you. Even though he’s just chasing the highest salary, because nobody wants to go to Washington.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      Marquis indicated that he likes serving as a mentor for younger pitchers and wants to be part of a team that is “making the moves that is necessary to get themselves back to being a winning organization.” He pointed to several moves the Nationals have made that suggest they are that team.

      (remembers that the Mets were also interested in Marquis)
      (reads between the lines)
      (laughs)

      • JGS

        wow

        just…wow

  • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

    What do you guys think of Pierre to the ChiSox?

    • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=nf Andy in Sunny Daytona

      I know that I’m in the minority, but I always liked Juan Pierre. I like guys that make contact. Don’t get me wrong, I understand that strike outs, in the end, don’t mean a whole lot, but it’s harder to go into prolonged slumps when you are able to make contact with the ball.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Also:

        Cut Pierre’s salary in half, and he instantly becomes a much more desirable player. Getting Pierre at half price isn’t all that bad.

        I have no idea what they’re going to do with Andruw Jones now, but whatevs.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          How dare you think poorly on what Kenny Williams has done!

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

        and. . . somebody should to explain to me why missing bats is good for a pitcher, but doesn’t matter for hitters. Failing to make contact benefits the pitcher.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Because at the end of the PA, a strikeout is just another out. For the pitcher, there’s no risk of an out not being made because defense/batted ball luck is out of the equation. For the batter, though, it’s just making another out. Regardless of how he makes it–K, GO, FB, etc–he’s made an out.

          • Hughesus Cristo

            This didn’t make sense. If missing bats is beneficial for the pitcher, making contact is beneficial for the hitter.You always have a better chance of a hit after contact. That would include errors, moving runners, etc.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        I don’t dislike the guy, and certainly making contact is a valuable thing, but I worry about his overall OBP. It was at .365 this year, but hadn’t been over .331 since 2004.

        He doesn’t walk (or strikeout, for that matter) or have any power. Brett Gardner, in comparison, could probably be in the World’s Strongest Man competition. In fact, Gardner is an excellent comparison for obvious reasons. Pierre is basically Gardner with better contact skills.

        If he’s on the cheap, sure, he’s attractive. He’s very attractive if you think he could keep his OBP up above .350 while giving you good range (though a weak arm) in the outfield and speed on the base paths. But that’s not the kind of guy you want to overpay for.

        • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

          That, and at 32 (33 next Aug) you wonder how many years he has left for a guy who’s game is so wrapped up in his legs.

          • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

            Definitely that too.

        • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=nf Andy in Sunny Daytona

          Gardner strikes out like a slugger. That is unacceptable for a punch-the-Judy hitter.

          • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

            I still can’t believe people think Gardner can be a .300/.350/.450 hitter.

            • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=nf Andy in Sunny Daytona

              Reduce the triple slash by .050/.015/075, and I think you will see his ceiling.

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              Who the hell said .450?!?! There is no way in hell he’ll EVER hit for that much power.

              .270/.350/.400 TOPS.

              • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

                Jeez that was supposed to be .350, not .450.

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

      I think Brian should make as many trades as possible with Kenny Williams.

  • C. Granderson

    Is Granderson going to get a press confrence

    • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

      Maybe they are waiting until they acquire the other pieces.

      CC, AJ, Teix style.

      • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

        Hmm, or was it just CC and AJ? Tex might have had a separate one.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Tex had a separate one.

  • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist
    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      If this new group has a little more spending room, the Rangers should now leap all over Ben Sheets.

      They can still contend for the AL West/wildcard.

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

        Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Sheets may have just gotten more expensive.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Think the Angels are in danger of falling to third?

        • Tom Zig

          Yes absolutely. They lost figgins and lackey. The two combined for a 10.0 WAR.

          Oh and they still have Brian Fuentes at closer. So yeah, looks like the Angels are gonna be in dire straits.

      • A.D.

        Maybe they don’t have a risk loving ownership that wants to have ~20M in 2 starters that very may not combine for 300 million.

        That said if they can get Sheets on a bit more expensive version of the Harden deal. Worth the gamble

  • wi-Fi Guy

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....eason.html

    Wouldnt it be great to just get the guy now !

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ Nostra-Artist

      It’s possible they make him available at the deadline, if the Marlins fall out of it.

      But I really think this is just his agent negotiating through the press. Watch him scream, yell, threaten and then sign a big extension.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        3/$23 is a shit offer. And if the Smoak/Feliz offer was true, they should have taken that. I can’t believe the Marlins compete. Developing talent is only part of the equation; you have to retain some of it to be successful.

  • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

    So I finally took Riddering’s advice and watched Glee last night. I only saw the last five episode, but you know what? It’s a good show. (For what it’s (worth, I also think Ke$ha) is a true( wordsmith. (I have remarkably poor tastes.)

    /hybrid Overshare + XTREME Januz Parenthesis Party’d

    • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

      Man I watched that shit for 5 minutes when it first came on and all they did was sing.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        I like the singing, but yes, there is a lot of it. They’re very skilled singers, by the way. You should give it another chance.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      /hybrid Overshare + XTREME Januz Parenthesis Party’d

      All you need is a Scott ellipsis and you’ll have a trifecta.

    • http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

      Glee’s awesome.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      I’ve watched Better Off Ted for the last two weeks and it’s actually pretty funny.

      What are everyone else’s thoughts on the new season of Scrubs? It hasn’t been as bad as I thought it would be, but it hasn’t been too fantastic.

      • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=nf Andy in Sunny Daytona

        I like “Modern Family”.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Yeah, that’s funny stuff.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        I find Zach Braff way too smug. Never got into Scrubs. I also hate Zach Galifinakawhateverhisnameis, Zach Morris, Zac Efron, . Outside of the commenter here with the same name, I don’t like a single person named Zach.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Z-Mac sheds a tear.

          • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

            Holy shit, my bad. Ok, we now have two official likes in the Zach category.

            There was also that kid at Pine Island Elementary School who used to poop his pants all the time. His middle name was Zach.

            Didn’t like him either.

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              Pray Melvin forgives you.

        • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=nf Andy in Sunny Daytona

          You hate Zack Galifanakis? That man is a genius. And I’m not even talking about “The Hangover” . His stand-up routine is probably the funniest thing I have ever seen.

          • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

            Awkward dude with a hobo beard and a piano. Pass.

            • Alan

              Up in the Air was pretty good.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            No regrets, that’s my motto. Well … that and everyone Wang Chung tonight.

            • ColoYank

              My dear sister once sent me a birthday card with a cowboy leaning pensively over the horn of his saddle, staring off to one side, and he thinks, “But if everybody does Wang Chung tonight, who’ll watch the herd?”

        • Hughesus Cristo

          I never got the “I don’t personally like this actor/actress” thing. Who cares if he’s smug? What does that have to do with his acting/writing?

  • Rod

    Am I crazy for wanting Jack Cust as a cheap and productive DH option?

    • ColoYank

      Yes, mostly he hits air.

      • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

        Look at his splits.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Meh. He’s declining pretty rapidly it seems. I’d much rather go for Thome or Delgado or vastly overpay for Nick Johnson than go for Jack cust.

  • Esteban

    Just watched Sugar, the movie about a Dominican kid playing minor league ball. I recommend it.

    • ColoYank

      I heard it was a good show. Are the baseball scenes realistic? Are there any baseball scenes?

      • Esteban

        Yea, the baseball scenes are not half bad. The main actor was actually discovered while he was playing baseball, so it’s not as ridiculous looking like Tim Robbins in Bull Durham.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      I liked it a lot; it definitely didn’t take the path I expected it to, but it was a good watch.

  • thomasbp

    2009 Cano — 128
    2009 Pedroia — 118