Jan
29

Winn signing ‘the final straw’ in fan’s decision to cancel season ticket plan

By

We are all baseball fans, therefore we disagree on many issues. Some of these are small, nuanced issues, while others are larger more fundamental ones. Most of us agree that the Yankees did a good job this off-season to add good complementary players to a core that won them their 27th World Championship, but there are certain fans, represented by a tiny sample on this site, who believe that the Yankees got worse this off-season. They have their reasons, though as you can imagine I don’t find these reasons very valid in a baseball sense. Just how far will these fans go to show their disapproval?

One of them, at least, cancelled his season ticket plan. Ross at Stadium Insider has the story, which centers on the former season ticket holder’s letter announcing his intent to cancel. You can read the entire letter there. I will warn you, though, that much head shaking will occur. I’ll just pick out some highlights.

The list of transgressions includes bringing in players who have already proven they are capable of succeeding in ny ( nick Johnson and Javier vasquez), destroying the farm system that was finally being built back up to aquire older players who have had mediocre careers (granderson)…

After the … comes a bit about signing Winn and not Damon, which I won’t even touch. As to the other parts, well, I think this fan has a misunderstanding of certain players’ values. That isn’t even to mention his poorly worded opening sentence — why would you cancel your ticket plan over players who have proven they can succeed in New York? But, since he clearly meant cannot, I think he needs a reality check of sorts.

Nick Johnson played parts of three seasons in New York and hit .256/.376/.424, good for an OPS+ of 113. As we learned when discussing wOBA, OPS+ undervalues OBP a bit, so Johnson actually performed a bit better than his OPS+ mark indicates from 2001 to 2003. Even so, those numbers are solid, and indicate nothing about an inability to play in New York. Javier Vazquez pitched very well in the first half of 2004, but pitched through discomfort in the second half and his numbers suffered. Unsurprisingly, his fastball was about a mile per hour off his normal mark. So no, I don’t think he has shown an inability to pitch in NY, but rather think that physical issues held him back in New York.

And then…

Even in 2008, when I knew the team was rebuilding, I bought a plan because I knew they were making a sacrifice to improve their chances the following year.

Rebuilding, maybe, in the sense that they didn’t trade for Johan Santana, but other than that the statement is patently ridiculous. Does a rebuilding team re-sign three of its own free agents, adding $60 million to the payroll during a “rebuilding” year — including two players in their mid- to late-thirties? Does a rebuilding team set an all-time payroll record?

I’ll stop here, because trying to talk sense into someone like this is pointless. Every team has a high percentage of fans like this, who think that their non-expert opinion is all that counts. I just hate getting lumped in with that type.

Categories : Yankee Stadium

185 Comments»

  1. I didn’t realize Lupica had to buy his own tickets, and I’m surprised he hadn’t cancelled already…

  2. Anthony says:

    I really can’t wait for baseball season to start again so we can ignore fans like these more easily. 20 more sleeps until pitchers and catchers..

  3. pat says:

    I love the Yankees, hate most of the fans.

  4. jsbrendog says:

    ……………………………………..________……………………
    ………………………………,.-‘”……………….“~.,………………
    ………………………..,.-”……………………………..“-.,…………
    …………………….,/………………………………………..”:,……..
    …………………,?………………………………………………\,…..
    ………………./…………………………………………………..,}….
    ……………../………………………………………………,:`^`..}….
    ……………/……………………………………………,:”………/…..
    …………..?…..__…………………………………..:`………../…..
    …………./__.(…..“~-,_…………………………,:`………./……..
    ………../(_….”~,_……..“~,_………………..,:`…….._/………..
    ……….{.._$;_……”=,_…….“-,_…….,.-~-,},.~”;/….}………..
    ………..((…..*~_…….”=-._……“;,,./`…./”…………../…………
    …,,,___.\`~,……“~.,………………..`…..}…………../………….
    …………(….`=-,,…….`……………………(……;_,,-”……………
    …………/.`~,……`-………………………….\……/\……………….
    ………….\`~.*-,……………………………….|,./…..\,__………..
    ,,_……….}.>-._\……………………………..|…………..`=~-,….
    …..`=~-,_\_……`\,……………………………\……………………
    ……………….`=~-,,.\,………………………….\…………………..
    …………………………..`:,,………………………`\…………..__..
    ……………………………….`=-,……………….,%`>–==“…….
    …………………………………._\……….._,-%…….`\……………
    ……………………………..,<`.._|_,-&“…………….`\…………..

    can we mail this guy some oaktag?

  5. Big Juan says:

    I love the letter that the season ticket rep sends back. It sounds like exactly what RAB has been saying all winter.

  6. Steve H says:

    One less idito (/Klaw’d) to boo A-Rod.

  7. Aj says:

    I think this is going to be a great season. I’m not as big on the Nick Johnson bandwagon, he has a great OBP, but his lack of consistent power throughout his career and injury history worries me. Regardless, this team is going to be great with Vazquez and Granderson as new additions.

  8. From this shmoe’s letter, ver-fucking-batim, emphasis mine:

    I held out hope for so long, praying cashman

    /uncapitalized proper noun’d

    would make a move to show me he cares about putting together a team that can win this year, but today proved that the Boss’s son are

    /subject-verb disagreement’d

    more concerned with a profit margin than winning championships, something their father would never be accused of.

    /ending a sentence with a preposition’d

    I am a middle school teacher in the Bronx

    :: HEAD EXPLODES ::

    Dear god, someone needs to think of the children. WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!??!

  9. I am a middle school teacher in the Bronx with a budget as well

    that is the msot frightening aspect

  10. A.D. says:

    Heh, on the same day that I locked in my plan with great excitement.

  11. Jeremy says:

    Must have been the PECOTA projection that pushed this guy over the edge!

  12. A.D. says:

    The Yankees have a plan and part of that plan is sticking to a budget this year so next year they can spend on what they see as a better free agent class.

    Hmmmmmm members of the Yankee organization even admitting it.

  13. Sweet Dick Willie says:

    That isn’t even to mention his poorly worded opening sentence

    I think this goes back to what TSJC was saying a few days ago, namely that posts that are poorly worded/punctuated usually have poor/no logic backing the arguments therein.

    Added benefit of reading RAB: Your grammar, punctuation and logic will all improve (not guaranteed, results will vary).

    • I think this goes back to what TSJC was saying a few days ago, namely that posts that are poorly worded/punctuated usually have poor/no logic backing the arguments therein.

      Here’s the exchange you’re referring to, from Wednesday night’s open thread:

      pete luciano says:
      January 27th, 2010 at 8:39 pm

      Winn stinks, his obp last yr was 318 and slugged, are you ready for this, 353. Nice job Cashnam, you might as well have taken a chance with a minor leaguer. The Yanks will be outfield shopping in June. Someone’s got to explain how Granderson(can’t hit leftys and his ops is 50 pts lower than any other Yankee starter), Winn, and Johnson replace Matsui, Damon, and Melky offensively. The Yankees are weaker offensively now, far more vunerable to left hand pitching, have less power, and far far less playoff and pressure experience. Not signing Damon was a bad bad move and this budget nonsense is a joke. How about Cashman tying up $46m for Kei Igewa and not giving Damon a lousy $6 or $7 million. Since when did we start shopping at Walmart for starting corner outfielders, please.

      tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada says:
      January 27th, 2010 at 9:02 pm

      After reading comments at RAB for years now, I’m positive that there’s a verifiable statistical correlation between spelling/punctuation/grammar skills and critical thinking skills.

      The better and clearer you write, the better and clearer you think. Every single gapless block of text full of typos I’ve ever encountered is also full of logical fallacies, murky reasoning, emotional overreactions, and garden-variety stupidity.

      Improper grammar/syntax = lack of intellectual heft. Book it.

      • JMK aka The Overshare's Garden Apartment Complex says:

        Don’t tell pat.

      • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

        i sat down to check specifically which grammatical failings were associated with which logical failings. my main interest in this research is because i typically, when typing anything casual, refuse to use capital letters. i use quite a few different punctuation elements, stylistic joinings and i have a fairly extensive vocabulary…all in an effort to make my casual writing mimic, or at least retain the characteristics of the natural tone and timbre of my speaking.

        but…then i thought about how uuuuuge this undertaking would be; if it were to be the least bit credible (scientifically) it would be several orders of magnitude larger than i had originally contemplated.

        in short, i’m too lazy to do research, and i’m too lazy to use two fingers to type at the same time.

        correlation: 1.000

        also, how does a middle school teacher earn enough to buy season tickets?! i can barely afford season tickets to our town’s AA team. egads.

        that clerks response was awesome…unfortunately its a double whammy–not only do they not get his money, they have to pay to ship damon all the crap he left in his locker thinking he’d come back!

  14. Nady Nation says:

    Score. More tickets for the non-idiot faction of the fanbase.

  15. steve s says:

    Joe, I thought your take on this story was extremely condescending especially your statement that you hate to be lumped in with this type of fan who thinks that their non-expert opinion is all that counts. I generally enjoy your posts and analyses but certainly disagree with you from time to time. Until one of the Steinbrenners signs your check you have no more claim of being an “expert” on all things Yankee or baseball than any of us who post on this site or are season (or former) season ticket holders.

    • Big Juan says:

      Every team has a high percentage of fans like this, who think that their non-expert opinion is all that counts. I just hate getting lumped in with that type.

      To me, that sounds like Joe is acknowledging his status as a non-expert.

    • pat says:

      Come for the analysis, stay for the condescension.

    • Mattingly's Love Child says:

      Sorry, but this asshole deserves condescension.

    • MattG says:

      I raised an eyebrow at that sentence, too. It’s just an ill-advised fan. I reserve like venom for Franscesa.

    • whozat says:

      Joe, as a non-expert fan who realizes that his opinion is NOT the only one that counts, hates being lumped in with guys like this when people talk about how Yankee fans are all stupid, entitled, and obnoxious.

      Though I guess your reading could work too, if one assumes that Joe was an asshole and wanted to get all self-righteous at someone today.

    • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

      “Until one of the Steinbrenners signs your check you have no more claim of being an ‘expert’ on all things Yankee or baseball than any of us who post on this site or are season (or former) season ticket holders.”

      False. If one person is smart and has well-reasoned opinions, and one person is stupid and lacks the ability to think critically, then it doesn’t matter if either of those people has their checks signed by the Steinbrenners. The smart one is smart and the stupid one is stupid, regardless.

  16. Frank1979 says:

    Man, you would think being TWO months removed from winning the World Series fans would have a hard time finding something to complain about…I guess not though. I guess some people will never be happy until the Yankees capture that ever elusive 162-0 perfect record. Its fans like this guy that give decent, intelligent Yankee fans a bad name.

  17. A.D. says:

    The rep should have dropped some advanced stats on the guy, really blown his mind, instead of counting stats & all-star game appearances.

    • Jeremy says:

      The rep was playing to his audience. This guy seems like the type of fan who thinks All Star appearances and Gold Gloves are the best conceivable indicators of talent.

      • Steve H says:

        He should have dropped in this as well.

        Randy Winn: 1 time all-star
        Johnny Damon: 2 time all-star, voted in by the fans both times.

        • pete says:

          i’m as pro-budget, pro-winn move as the next guy, but people need to stop calling this line. It’s a bit misinformative. Per MLB rules, every team has to have an all-star at each ASG, and Winn was the only Devil Ray, and he was not a starter. Just sayin

  18. Zack says:

    This guy cancelled season tickets for the defending WS Yankees because of NJ and Javy and an “old”(?) Granderson? Man I’d hate to know what he would do if he was a Mets fan.

    • A.D. says:

      Or and Angels fan, they’ve certainly gotten worse on paper.

      • JGS says:

        while Seattle has gotten clearly better. This guy probably thinks the Sox have gotten a lot worse too

        • pete says:

          not sure how much seattle has improved actually. On paper, from this point last year, absolutely they’re better. But while their rotation is clearly better, it may not put up better results than last year, since Bedard and Washburn combined for ~200 IP of ~2.75 ERA. Add to that that while they’ve improved their overall SS defense (i.e., full year of wilson, not half), most likely maintained their 3B defense, improved their 1B defense, and significantly worsened their LF defense, I don’t think they’re a much improved team. Sure, Figgins is an upgrade over beltre offensively, but Kotchman is probably a downgrade over the production they got from Branyan. Seattle’s biggest upgrade this offseason is the fact that the angels got potentially quite a bit worse, IMO. Personally, I see the AL-West shaking out with out any team winning more than 90 or fewer than 80 games.

  19. JGS says:

    “The list of transgressions includes bringing in players who have already proven they are capable of succeeding in ny”

    yup–I see this as a good thing

  20. Steve H says:

    I still can’t get over one thing.

    The list of transgressions includes bringing in players who have already proven they are capable of succeeding in ny ( nick Johnson and Javier vasquez),

    Umm, why is this a bad thing? Maybe he meant incapable of succeeding in NY? It would have been wrong, but at least made some sense.

  21. Ivan says:

    Maybe if they didnt donate millions to Haiti, maybe they could resign Damon. And they call themselves “America’s Team”. The Yankees should use Americans dollars and support the American fans, and America’s sport. How unamerican is that to not overreact. Socialist pigs, and use the money to resign Damon to help a very poor country. They hate America, don’t buy the tickets-Rush Limbaugh.

  22. Steve H says:

    Considering he is a teacher, yet can’t write, does anyone think this guy lost his job and can’t afford the season tickets, and just wanted to vent? Or on his teachers salary could no longer afford the tickets? This isn’t exactly the gutting of the Marlins after 1997, or the Bulls when Jordan retired.

    • I’m hoping that “I’m a middle school teacher from the Bronx” is actually loser-idiot codespeak for “I’m an out-of-work jizzmopper from Staten Island”.

      I hope he was NEVER a schoolteacher in the first place.

    • JMK aka The Overshare's Garden Apartment Complex says:

      Here’s the thing: I don’t mean to burst the collective bubble, but school teachers, by and large, are not editors at Hacker’s: The Rules of Writing. Sure, they should know what a gerund is and the other nuances of the language, but they don’t. I took many courses in college with students majoring in Elementary or Secondary Education. Let’s just say those individuals will not be figuring out cold fusion any time soon. The vast majority were remarkably stupid, but claimed to love kids, so who cares about what they know?! Of course, this is mostly anecdotal and lacking any hard data, so take from it what you will. I’d estimate that for every one really good teacher (not even great), there are 3 poor teachers and 10 mediocre teachers.

      It’s hard to believe that this individual was able to procure any job that required a fair bit of basic English skills. I mean, that turd doesn’t even sink in a Special Ed. setting. As others have noted, he’s probably a gym teacher, math or science teacher (shudder).

      • Steve H says:

        But any teacher has a college education. He didn’t write that email on the fly and make typos due to fast typing. If he writes like that, and graduated college, I might as well shred my college degree, as it’s worth has been invalidated.

        • exactly, while posting on a message board i dont give a shit, my name isnt on here and i dont give a goddamn what people in the intertuibes think of my grammar. infact im purposefully oging to misspell the rest of my post because i can.

          bud whin i wride a emael wit mah nam ons id i’s makes shure id ith consice cleer uv anee tipos an geds mah poind acrozz

        • JMK aka The Overshare's Garden Apartment Complex says:

          Yeah, there’s a difference to this individual’s ill-conceived letter — which presumably was produced not in haste — and JSB and pat’s grammar/spelling syntax on RAB. There’s a sleep slope to ignorance and laziness. Now, in a professional setting, I’d hope pat and JSBTP would make the effort, and I’ll assume it would be better composed than the esteemed schoolteacher’s letter.

        • pete says:

          *its worth

          /semi-relevant nitpick’d

  23. This Year says:

    Well, the one thing that makes sense here is that with the advent of the NYS, we were all asked to pay 3 times as much for season tickets 1/3 as good as in the OYS. I had held my plan for 10 years across the street and then was royally screwed by the suits in the upper Yankee echelons. I opted out last year both because of the absurd cost and as a matter of principle. If I had decided to stay and was paying an obscene price for the upcoming season, I’d be rather poed that the Yankees now had a sacrocanct budget and would not stretch it a bit for a player who has proven he can play in the NY cauldron. Whatever else you can say about the offseason, there is no question the Yankees would be a better team with JD and not RW. In short, to price gouge loyal fans and then claim fiscal austerity is hypocritical in the extreme.

    • Steve H says:

      there is no question the Yankees would be a better team with JD and not RW

      Well they’d also be a better team with Grienke, Felix and Lincecum in the rotation. Randy Winn is our #9 hitter. He is replacing Melky Cabrera. Let’s not get confused on that. We are not, I repeat not, swapping JD for RW.

      • In addition:

        “In short, to price gouge loyal fans and then claim fiscal austerity is hypocritical in the extreme.”

        The Yankees aren’t claiming “fiscal austerity”. They’re claiming budgetary strategic planning. They’re not planning on never spending money again. They’re planning on spending less now in order to spend more later.

        Big difference.

      • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

        We are not, I repeat not, swapping JD for RW.

        except for, you know, on defense (MAYBE). what we did swap on defense was brett ‘organic’ gardner for johnny ‘three left knees’ damon. i’m still hoping to hear how this makes us worse…

    • Big Juan says:

      there is no question the Yankees would be a better team with JD and not RW

      I’m just not so sure that’s true. Besides, Winn isn’t replacing Damon, he’s replacing Melky.

      /old thread’d

    • JGS says:

      we were all asked to pay 3 times as much for season tickets 1/3 as good as in the OYS

      my new seats were about the same price as the old ones. They are decently further from home plate, but in some ways they are better seats than the old ones were

      • JMK aka The Overshare's Garden Apartment Complex says:

        Yeah, ours were pretty close, albeit a bit higher. I see what the guy is saying; the average ticket rose from around $43 in 2008 to $71 in 2009, but that’s slightly skewed by the extremely pricey tickets. Most tickets were around $55.

        It’s also faulty logic to think that because payroll went down and we didn’t spend it on a guy who could “handle the Yankee cauldron,” it’s hypocritical. Payroll went down for a few reasons, chief among them is the sense that there needs to be a hard budget. All businesses, legal and illicit operate on the principle of strict budgets. Budget allow for a better sense of projections, better negotiating leverage for assets.

        Ticket prices going up is more to do with recouping costs of the YS3 construction and taxes; also, because the demand was so great, they could, which enables them to spend more efficiently on acquiring the right assets within the budget. Your ticket prices going up are more to do with economics than it is the Yankees wanting to “save” a few dollars on Damon.

    • Mattingly's Love Child says:

      In short, to price gouge loyal fans and then claim fiscal austerity is hypocritical in the extreme.

      You are absolutely right in that regard. But there is a point where the Yankees have to say enough is enough on spending. It is much easier to spend other people’s money than your own.

      Also, I wonder if the Yankees not drawing as well last year in the new stadium is also influencing their new budget. They didn’t bring in anywhere near the revenue that they thought they would from YSIII.

    • A.D. says:

      I opted out last year both because of the absurd cost and as a matter of principle.

      That’s fine & sound reasoning. The article in question, less so.

      The Yanks would probably be better off with Damon than Winn in the short-term, but not necessarily the long-term.

  24. JMK aka The Overshare's Garden Apartment Complex says:

    I wrote this to Joe (albeit this is slightly edited), but sort of took a Senior Skip Day approach to work, so why not discuss it?:

    I think there’s always a notion that X team’s fans are like this or that. We seem to strive to label fans into neat groupings, and often it fits our expectation. But to put it simply, there are informed “good” fans, ignorant “crappy” fans, and lazy, fair-weather fans of all sport teams.

    Most are reactionary, speaking not from a prospective of value, business sense and overall production, but narrative, “sexy” stats, and personal preference. I guess the overarching point to my rambling (aside from wasting the time of my employers), is that the community at RAB is actually a minority voice; the man Joe cited (and seem to detest) is the fan most likely to be heard, which gives us all a bad name. But this is the case of all teams, unfortunately.

    We’re lucky a few of us know what we’re talking about here. It’s exceedingly rare, which is funny considering the average sports fan has more information available to them than ever before, yet still chooses to remain willfully ignorant, and worse, loud about it.

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

      From this day to the ending of the world,
      But we in it shall be remembered-
      We few, we happy few, we band of brothers

      /Bill Shakespeare’d

    • Zack says:

      “the man Joe cited (and seem to detest) is the fan most likely to be heard, which gives us all a bad name. But this is the case of all teams, unfortunately.”

      Rational discussion dont lead to newspaper being sold or talk shows getting high ratings. Sadly, thats how our world works now.

      And you’re right, we’re lucky to be part of a website that doesnt have 147 posts of people jumping off the bridge.

  25. Januz says:

    If this guy REALLY cancelled his Season Tickets over signing Winn, then I suggest he become a CUBS fan (For the savings he will get from cancelling Yankee Tickets, he can get a lifetime package to MLB Network do he can get Comcast Sports Chicago (Of course, he will NOT see another BASEBALL Championship for his team in his lifetime, but that should be no big deal)).

  26. Rose says:

    destroying the farm system that was finally being built back up to aquire older players who have had mediocre careers (granderson)…

    We traded one decent farm guy (A. Jackson), who held no guarantees, and a bunch of other dime-o-dozens, which yes, include Melky Cabrera. And in return we not only got rid of ACTUAL older players (albeit who had pretty good careers)…but we also signed/traded for much younger players to take their places…while adding a certifiable greatest #4 starter in baseball.

    On a side note, what happens regarding the payroll budget…if (heaven forbid) somebody gets injured…and you need to fill the hole. Is the budget so concrete that we have to look internally? Or do you believe in this situation (and depending on your position at this time) you make the proper decision accordingly?

  27. Joe says:

    I bet this same guy was all in favor of signing 37 year old Mike Cameron instead.

  28. SM says:

    “The list of transgressions includes bringing in players who have already proven they are capable of succeeding in ny”

    Am I missing something, does he want NON capable players?

  29. Jake H says:

    Good, get that guy out of here. If I lived in NY I would be happy that I would get a shot at season tickets because a guy like this doesn’t know baseball.

  30. AP says:

    While I agree this guy was over the top, the question of whether the Yankees got better or worse is not so cut and dry. Replacing Matsui with Johnson was a bonehead move. Does anyone think Johhnson is going to hit nearly 30 homers and drive in around 100 runs?

    There’s no way Winn is as productive in 2010 as Damon was in 2009. So you’ve got decreased production right off the bat from two positions.

    Granderson should be an upgrade over Cabrera and Vazquez should be good in the back end of the rotation. But at left field and DH, the Yankees definitely got worse.

    • gc says:

      (sigh)

      Never mind.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      And yet they still have the best offense in baseball, improved their defense, and significantly improved their pitching staff.

      Matsui’s hit 30 homers once with the Yankees, and it was five years ago. And he didn’t even drive in 100 runs last year.

    • Steve H says:

      /rolls eyes

    • This is example No. 1 in my case that “replacing production” is a shallow and wrongheaded argument.

    • whozat says:

      What if you

      a) Realize that the team is a TEAM and that facile, position-by-position analysis makes no sense,
      b) look at GRANDERSON as the replacement for Damon, and Brandy Winndner as the replacement for Gardbrera,
      c) realize that production is about much, much more than homers and RBIs and that the most important thing a ballplayer can do is not make outs — something NJ is incredible at, and
      d) realize that defense counts too, and that the OF is a LOT better defensively this year than it was last year.

    • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

      Defense?

      i’m guessing…

      gardner>>>>>>damon granderson>>leche swisher>swisher

      (cause lets be honest, if you’ve had NICK SWISHER once, unlike most other lovers, he turns out to be BETTER than you remembered. and hoffmann late inning def replacement potential may help too)

    • (takes a deep breath, hopes this is the last time this will need to be done but knows it’s not)

      LF Johnny Damon was replaced by DH Nick Johnson.
      DH Hideki Matsui was replaced by CF Curtis Granderson.
      CF Melky Cabrera was replaced by LF Brett Gardner.
      4th OF Xavier Nady was replaced by 4th OF Randy Winn.

      —————-

      Replacing Matsui with Johnson was a bonehead move.

      That didn’t happen.

      Does anyone think Johhnson is going to hit nearly 30 homers and drive in around 100 runs?

      Yeah, he actually might. Irrelevant, though. Curtis Granderson most freaking definitely can hit nearly 30 homers and drive in around 100 runs.

      There’s no way Winn is as productive in 2010 as Damon was in 2009.

      A) Yeah, given their likely regressions to their career norms, it’s exceedingly possible that Winn outproduces Damon. It’s a MORTAL LOCK, however, that 2010 Randy Winn outproduces 2009 Xavier Nady, which is who he is replacing. Damon was already replaced by Nick Johnson. Pay attention.

      So you’ve got decreased production right off the bat from two positions.

      No, you don’t, because you’re not identifying the positions correctly.

      Granderson should be an upgrade over Cabrera

      He’s an upgrade over MATSUI. Gardner is Cabrera’s replacement.

      But at left field and DH, the Yankees definitely got worse.

      Analysis FAIL.

      • Rose says:

        (takes a deep breath, hopes this is the last time this will need to be done but knows it’s not)

        LF Johnny Damon was replaced by DH Nick Johnson.
        DH Hideki Matsui was replaced by CF Curtis Granderson.
        CF Melky Cabrera was replaced by LF Brett Gardner.
        4th OF Xavier Nady was replaced by 4th OF Randy Winn.

        Is this solely based on batting order?

        • It’s based on the totality of the player’s role to the team.

          Damon was our 2-hole table setter starting player. Johnson replaces that role.
          Matsui was our 5/6-hole power bat behind the heart of the order starting player. Granderson replaces that role.
          Melky was our 9-hole hitting defense-intensive outfielder starting player. Gardner replaces that role (by internal promotion).
          Nady was our 4th outfielder/fringe starter. Winn replaces that role.

      • Chris says:

        I’m curious. Why do you keep insisting that this is the way the replacements are arranged? It would seem to me that the logical thing would be the DH replacing the DH, and the OF (potentially LF) replacing the LF.

        • It would seem to me that the logical thing would be the DH replacing the DH, and the OF (potentially LF) replacing the LF.

          That’s an overly simplistic and rigid way to evaluate it, though. Clearly, based on what we lost and what we replaced what we lost with, that’s not how the Yankee FO looked at it. They looked to fill vacated needs with new players, irrespective of what position those players played (so long as all the vacated holes were filled by someone.)

  31. JohnC says:

    As punishment for his stupidity, this fan should be forced to attend all Net home games for the remainder of this season. Then maybe he’ll appreciate what he gave up.

  32. king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

    hey…given that its @#$@#$ cold outside today, and i’m still half-asleep, will y’all help me out?

    (ST competition notwithstanding) isnt winn, essentially, the last guy added to the 25 man roster, the last of four bench players added to the team? (cervelli, pena, somebody else we talked about and winn?)

    its musical chairs, JD had a chance to sit four or five rounds ago if my memory serves, and he chose to sit there while some nearly-random dude took the #4 bench spot.

    • pat says:

      If this were a basketball team I’d say Hoffman is last guy off the bench with Winn being the primary OF backup.

      • That.

        Winn’s like last year’s Xavier Nady; he’s the 4th OF who plays a lot in relief of the starters (particularly Gardner, who we have doubts about his ability to hit well enough to be a real fulltimer, just like Melky of 2009).

        Difference is, 2010 Winn can actually play 2010 Gardner’s primary position on the field (whether it’s LF or CF), while 2009 Nady couldn’t play 2009 Melky’s primary position on the field (CF).

        2010 Winn probably won’t hit as well as 2009 Nady (although he certainly could with a decent BABIP correction/park effect bounceback), but he makes up for that shortcoming with vastly superior defense and IMMENSELY superior health track record.

        • Rose says:

          What’s more valuable later in the innings though? Randy Winn as a pinch hitter? Or Brett Gardner as a pinch runner?

          • Chris says:

            Over the last 3 seasons, Randy Winn is 56/63 (89%) in SB attempts. Gardner is 39/45 (87%) in his career. I’m not sure that Winn would be much of a step down as a pinch runner. Gardner is generally aggressive in trying to steal bases, but he seemed hesitant when brought in as a pinch runner.

  33. Ivan says:

    I think that this guy believes that if the Yanks resign Damon, Yankees could of went 173-0. Now that Damon is gone, they from 173-0, to 100-62 and thats unacceptable.

  34. The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

    I’m going to get away from bashing this moronic letter-writer for a minute here…

    I’m curious how many people who owned season ticket plans at YS2 have since cancelled those plans at YS3, either last year or this year. I’m sure the sales of ticket plans are going gangbusters overall, but I’m curious what the turnover looks like – how many of the season ticket holders are new, how many of the old season ticket holders have abandoned their seats, how many of the people who abandoned their seats had seats in the upper deck and how many had more expensive seats, etc.

    I ask because I’ve been a season-ticket holder for years and I decided to give up my seats for 2010. I didn’t give them up for lack of faith in the team or unhappiness with the direction of the organization on the field, I gave them up because the cost just isn’t worth it for me anymore. I’m weary of being treated like a second-class citizen by the organization and, frankly, going to YS3 just isn’t the same kind of experience for me that going to YS2 was. I’m really not looking to start some sort of pissing contest about the two stadiums here, just explaining why I, as a long-time full-season ticket holder and huge Yankees fan who is very happy with the on-field product and the direction of the front office and organization as a whole, came to the decision that I no longer care to pay for season-tickets.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that there are other people out there like me. I never even entertained the thought of abandoning my seat until this offseason, and I, and my friend who I shared the seats with, came to the decision to give up our seats relatively, and surprisingly, once we got our minds around it, quickly.

    • CountryClub says:

      This is just my opinion, so I’m not saying you are wrong, but I think the new stadium provides a much better experience than the old. So, while there probably are numerous people who share your opinion, I bet there are just as many that share mine.

      I’ll be shocked if the number of season ticket holders hasn’t gone up from 2009 to 2010.

      • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

        “This is just my opinion, so I’m not saying you are wrong, but I think the new stadium provides a much better experience than the old. So, while there probably are numerous people who share your opinion, I bet there are just as many that share mine.”

        Obviously I know there are (a lot) people who prefer YS3, I certainly didn’t (and wouldn’t) insinuate that isn’t the case. This is irrelevant to my point, though. I mean… I know you’re not saying I’m wrong, because you’re not actually saying that anything I said was wrong.

        “I’ll be shocked if the number of season ticket holders hasn’t gone up from 2009 to 2010.”

        I also would be surprised if the overall number of season ticket holders hasn’t gone up since the Yankees moved into YS3. This, too, is irrelevant to my point, though. Like I said above, “I’m sure the sales of ticket plans are going gangbusters overall” – but that’s not what I’m curious about. I’m asking if there is more turnover, specifically among YS2-era season-ticket holder holdovers, now that the Yankees have moved to YS3… I’m asking how many of the season-ticket holders from YS2 have abandoned their seats in the last couple of years. I think there’s an important distinction between (a) overall season-ticket holders and (b) season-ticket holders who are holdovers from YS2. The holdovers are people who bought their full-season packages when the Yanks played in YS2, at different price-points and for, sometimes, different reasons than people by packages for YS3. I for one, like I said above, loved YS2, and I think that was part of why I bought season-ticket packages and never thought twice about it. I’d be surprised if there weren’t other YS2-era holdover season-ticket holders who feel the same way I do about the situation. In addition, I’m curious what the turnover rates look like for different sections of the stadium, like the upper deck vs. the field-level seats, like I said above. People in different parts of the stadium were affected very differently by the move in some cases. I’m curious if those effects have begun to show up in YS2-era season ticket holder holdover attrition.

    • JMK aka The Overshare's Garden Apartment Complex says:

      Hmmm…well, here’s what we did: My family has had two season tickets for quite a while, split with other family and friends. The cost went up a few hundred dollars in 2009, to around $5,300 per ticket. We have two tickets near the LF line, and they’re pretty good seats, but still fairly overpriced. 81 home games for $10,600 comes out to around $130 per game in just tickets. The beer, concessions, parking is also quite pricey. We’re not poor, but we don’t make the kind of money justify spending that much on an experience that, while good, isn’t great. We’ve split the tickets 3 ways, so we get to see around 25 games for about $3,000. The key is to get a package together with a few people and just check out a few games; it’s too cost prohibitive to swallow the whole package.

      For what it’s worth, I just as much prefer watching at home with the big screen tv, my own beer, better seats, and less obnoxious people. The excitement of going to a game is great, but it may not be worth the total cost, not just fiscally, but in terms of the above stated luxuries we don’t get. This may be our last year with the season tickets.

  35. Chris says:

    I wonder how this guy will feel when the Yankees are playing in the World Series and he’s watching at home instead of being there because he was too stupid to keep his season tickets.

  36. Tony says:

    Fuck the ignorant bastard

  37. pete says:

    Hm. If i were a middle school teacher with season tickets to the yankees, what would i do? Yeah I’d probably cancel them. But not because of the Winn move. I’d cancel the tickets because I’d realize that I did not have the financial capacity to afford them, nor the requisite $20+ spent in the vast majority of my 70+ trips to the park. And then I’d realize that my situation was analogous to the yanks’ situation with Damon. For me, spending that money on the stadium would probably have more serious repercussions, because it’d be a much more extreme overexpenditure (presumably, considering avg. teacher salaries for MS teachers is typically in the $40K range), but still, one could consider my purchasing things i couldn’t afford that would not sustain their fiscal worth analogous to the yankees spending more than they could actually afford to for a player who represented a marginal upgrade in overall production, and an entirely negligible upgrade in terms of revenue.

  38. [...] Bottom line: Randy Winn at $2M was an overpay, but Randy Winn at 55% of that with some incentives is just fine. No reason to cancel your season tickets. [...]

  39. [...] this guy’s problem? Doesn’t he know the Yanks are just trying to [...]

  40. [...] You can’t Winn ‘em all. Especially last season. Hopefully that won’t repeat itself this year…or I’m canceling my season tickets. [...]

Leave a Reply

You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

If this is your first time commenting on River Ave. Blues, please review the RAB Commenter Guidelines. Login for commenting features. Register for RAB.